Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 16 - Evidence - Meeting of February 25, 2013
OTTAWA, Monday, February 25, 2013
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5 p.m. to study CBC/Radio-Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act and some aspects of the Broadcasting Act.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba, chair of the committee.
Before I introduce the witnesses who are appearing today, I invite the members of the committee to introduce themselves starting to my left with the deputy chair.
Senator Champagne: Good afternoon. Andrée Champagne from the province of Quebec.
Senator Poirier: Rose-May Poirier, New Brunswick.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis, Quebec.
Senator McIntyre: Paul McIntyre, New Brunswick.
Senator Mockler: Percy Mockler, New Brunswick.
Senator Robichaud: Fernand Robichaud, Saint-Louis-de-Kent, New Brunswick.
The Chair: The committee is continuing its study on CBC/Radio-Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act and some aspects of the Broadcasting Act.
Joining us today is Mylène Chartrand, Vice-Chair, Board of Directors, Association des francophones du Nunavut. Welcome, Ms. Chartrand. Also joining us is Gaël Corbineau, Executive Director, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador. Welcome, Mr. Corbineau.
On behalf of the members of the committee, I would like to thank the witnesses for taking the time to present the viewpoints of their organizations as part of our study and for answering our questions. The committee has asked the witnesses to make a presentation of at most seven minutes each, and the senators will follow with questions.
I therefore invite Ms. Chartrand to take the floor, followed by Mr. Corbineau.
Mylène Chartrand, Vice-Chair, Board of Directors, Association des francophones du Nunavut: Honourable members of the committee, hi, bonjour, ullukut. First of all, I would like to thank you for inviting the Association des francophones du Nunavut to come and talk about the particular situation in Nunavut as part of today's study.
My name is Mylène Chartrand and I am the vice-president of AFN, the organization representing francophones in Nunavut.
I would first like to give a brief history of the francophonie in Nunavut, and then I will describe the current situation, followed by suggestions that may provide some solutions.
In the 1970s, when Radio-Canada's television signal was not yet available in Nunavut, francophones in Iqaluit wanted to watch La Soirée du hockey. They were so passionate about it that they requested the authorization to rebroadcast Radio-Canada's signal. Their request was denied, but they were told that, if an association or a group in good standing made the request, it might be taken into consideration.
That is how the Association des francophones de Frobisher Bay was born. That time, the request was accepted, an antenna was installed and the supporters, primarily made up of employees of the federal government and Bell Canada, met on Saturday evenings to watch the games. This goes to show that access to media plays a major role even for a smaller number of people. This unifying initiative sped up the creation of what is known today as the Association des francophones du Nunavut.
Forty years later, let us look at Radio-Canada's French-language services in Nunavut, based on each type of media outlet.
In terms of radio, CBC North is promoted as a station that provides combined services, meaning in English, French and Aboriginal languages. The French-language content is limited to the program Boréal Hebdo, on Friday nights at 11:05 p.m. A number of people do not even know that the program exists, so it would be worthwhile to promote it.
In terms of television, SRC and RDI's regional signals are available, depending on the cable plan you have. As for the CBC North regional station, the programming is almost exclusively in English and Inuktitut. The website of CBC North is not available in French and neither are the articles posted on it. Only the Boréal Hebdo section is in French, but just the content, since the structure of the site is still in English.
As to the programs on Radio-Canada's website, meaning web series and other products on TOU.TV, the major access problem in Nunavut is the Internet service. When it is possible, downloading a program takes a very long time and you can quickly reach the monthly download limits of expensive Internet plans. The issue has actually been discussed with CRTC's chairman who recently paid us a visit. It is more difficult to talk about the quality of services and the reflection of diversity when French-language services are virtually non-existent.
I would also like to point out that the focus has rather been on the services available in Iqaluit, but the situation is the same in all the other communities of Nunavut. The question of whether a full-time employee or a francophone office is needed in Iqaluit is open for debate. But since CBC North radio is considered a combined service, we feel that a significant improvement needs to be made. To do so, here are some concrete solutions that we think can be implemented in the short term, even in a more difficult financial context.
First, let us think about cooperation with community media that are already in place. While Radio-Canada's French-language radio has always been non-existent in Nunavut, community radio CFRT was born out of a need for French-language media. As indicated in Radio-Canada's Strategy 2015, our crown corporation seeks to expand service in underserved markets, to apply new service delivery models and to establish new partnerships in order to enhance both its reach and its impact. Cooperation with community media, which already have the basic infrastructure set up, would make it possible to achieve those objectives.
Broadcasting Radio-Canada's content on our community radio would benefit both parties. This means receiving authorization to broadcast international and national news bulletins. In addition to the news, content programming, reports, variety shows and cultural programs could be broadcast to complete a diversified programming that would reach a wider audience.
In that respect, partnerships with United Nations Radio, Radio France Internationale and the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada have already been established with our community radio CFRT 107.3 FM.
Conversely, French-language spots could be broadcast on CBC North. As part of the mission to promote linguistic duality, this would be an opportunity to expose anglophones and Inuit to the French language.
Second, sending a French-speaking reporter to major events would ensure that someone is there when needed, which would make it possible to provide content for television, radio and the web, in addition to being active on social media. The coverage of elections in various remote regions shows that this formula has been used before in other places.
This is the situation in Nunavut in a nutshell. We feel that Radio-Canada's products are of good quality and appealing. We would like to have access to them more easily. We hope that recommendations will be made to properly serve our French-language community in Nunavut. We believe that cooperation is necessary to provide an important service for our communities. Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
Gaël Corbineau, Executive Director, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador: The Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador is the official voice of the French-speaking community in our province. Created 40 years ago, the FFTNL has been working hard to protect and promote the rights and interests of Newfoundland and Labrador's francophone and Acadian community and to facilitate its development.
What about Radio-Canada in our regions? Radio-Canada is the public broadcaster supposed to cover the whole French-speaking community from coast to coast in its programming, shows and newspapers. In spite of that, for a number of years, Radio-Canada has been a major source of concern and, sometimes, frustrations for our community and for the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador.
Actually, we have been noticing a constant and definite decline over the years in the public broadcaster's programming on French-speaking communities outside Quebec in general and in our province in particular, be it on television, radio or, more recently, the Internet. Everyone knows that its national programming dedicates only a tiny fraction of the content to what happens outside Montreal.
Unfortunately, we are seeing the same trend regionally. Made up of just over 3,000 French-speaking members, our community is still quite small compared to the French-speaking and Acadian communities in other Atlantic provinces. And today, our community is recognizing itself less and less in the programming of Radio-Canada Acadia, limited to the Moncton area all too often for our liking.
The FFTNL reminds you that constituents appreciate hearing the news about their French-speaking or Acadian community, but that is not enough. Like any other Canadians, they would also like to hear about the political, economic and social news from their province and region, even if the players in those areas are predominantly anglophone.
Also, the FFTNL finds it unfortunate that Radio-Canada radio is completely absent from the Happy Valley-Goose Bay region, where we have a French-speaking community and even a French school.
Let us now look at the impact of Radio-Canada's budget cuts. Given the reality of French-speaking communities outside Quebec, Canada's vastness and small population, it is realistic to consider that a television channel will never be economically profitable if it is supposed to fulfill its mandate without public funding; the advertising markets in our French-speaking and Acadian regions are too restricted and the operating costs are too high. That is why we feel that only a channel supported through public funding can provide this service to all the citizens of our country.
That does not mean that a public channel cannot diversify its revenues through advertising. That also does not mean that this public money must be spent irresponsibly. But the role of a Canada-wide public broadcaster is also to bond the Canadian Confederation together as one whole and to stand up as the main pillars of democracy. As one of the main pillars of democracy, and precisely as a result of this public funding, it will be able to maintain its journalistic independence far removed from partisan and personal interests.
Without any doubt, the budget cuts at Radio-Canada in recent years are largely the reason for the departure from its mandate. In addition to the major cuts to its funding from the federal government, the CRTC's decision not to renew the Local Programming Improvement Fund also hit hard in our communities.
Previously, Acadia received about $2 million annually from the LPIF; that made possible more programming from the Atlantic provinces. Since then, we have moved backwards again.
So we understand that Radio-Canada had to tailor its human resources to match its new financial resources and that, as a result, it sometimes has to make tough and painful choices.
But we regret that those choices were not made after consulting with the communities affected; the choices are most severely felt in our regions where the stations often have few resources anyway. The loss of a single position often represents 33 or 50 per cent of the staff at a given Radio-Canada bureau and the loss of content and visibility is even more dramatic for our communities as a result.
For example, in 2011, Radio-Canada's provincial bureau in St. John's, Newfoundland still had three employees. In 2012, after two of them left and after seeing no recruitment to replace them, the Fédération des francophones had to make representations to SRC management. They told us that, from then on, there would be only one position instead of the previous three and the position would be responsible for radio, television and the Internet. We considered that to be unacceptable; after discussions and meetings with SRC management, we got them to keep two permanent positions. But the cameraman position had to go.
However, the FFTNL is afraid that the reversal of SRC's position may only be temporary and may be the result of a desire to ease off the pressure on the eve of the licence renewal negotiations with the CRTC. Once bitten, twice shy; we will be very vigilant in the future once SRC has received its licence renewal to make sure that the corporation does not decide to cut staff again at the first opportunity.
Lastly, it seems that the reporters' travel budgets have also been considerably reduced, thereby preventing them from going out to our rural communities and providing them with the visibility to which they should be entitled. In Newfoundland, it is rare for a Radio-Canada reporter to leave the St. John's area more than once a year.
There is a paradox in the situation. At Radio-Canada's public annual general meeting, which was held on September 25, 2012 in St. John's, Newfoundland and which the FFTNL attended, Céline Galipeau made much of the importance she attaches to airing reports from Radio-Canada's regional offices outside Quebec. But at the same time, SRC was cutting their staff. We wonder whether we will continue to be seen across Canada if there is only token staff at Radio-Canada's regional offices where camera operator positions have been abolished.
So the FFTNL deeply regrets the numerous funding cuts that Radio-Canada has suffered in recent years. The first victims are the francophone and Acadian Canadians in communities far from the major urban centres.
Despite these comments that are, I admit, somewhat negative, the FFTNL nevertheless restates its unconditional support for Radio-Canada's existence as a Canada-wide public broadcaster with the mission of representing and providing visibility for every community in the country. In order to do so, and in order to prevent a reoccurrence of the situation in which we currently find ourselves, we would like the SRC's licence to be renewed, but with very strict requirements. These are: that there be a minimum of two journalists per province and territory, plus one for every 10,000 francophones in the province; that a temporary replacement be automatically supplied when a journalist is on holiday or when a position is vacant; that journalists have the means to travel to our regions at least once per month per journalist, and that the term of the CRTC licence renewal be reduced to five years, with the CRTC having no possibility of extending the licence without prior consultation.
The Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador would also like the federal government to refrain from putting the SRC's mission in danger once again with more budget cuts.
Canadians have a right to expect a public broadcaster that serves everyone, that can be seen by everyone, and that showcases Canada in all its diversity. Let us make this wish into a reality.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Corbineau. The first question comes from Senator Fortin-Duplessis.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Welcome once more. I was very pleased to hear your reports. You are truly concerned and it is important for you to be well served by Radio-Canada.
Can you paint us a picture of the francophone media available in Newfoundland and Nunavut? I assume that you just have Radio-Canada television, newspapers and radio stations.
Ms. Chartrand: From a francophone perspective?
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Yes.
Ms. Chartrand: We get two or three pages in L'Aquilon, the Northwest Territories' newspaper. So there is a partnership that lets us print our local and regional news.
As for radio, we have one community radio station. There is a mix of local programming and various broadcasts that come from ARC. As for the web, the francophone associations in Nunavut have websites. So that is about all.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Do you have a comment?
Mr. Corbineau: In Newfoundland, we have a community newspaper, Le Gaboteur, published every two weeks. It carries community news for the province. We have a brand new community radio station that has no local programming right now. By that I mean that it really is very recent and there are some challenges in getting local hosts. At the moment, it is just music on a continuous loop. That is all. Radio-Canada is our only real francophone media outlet on a daily basis. Except in Happy Valley-Goose Bay where there is no radio. There is nothing in French on FM radio.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I see that Radio-Canada plays just as important a role for you as it does at the other end of the country. Mr. Corbineau, at the end of your brief, you listed your specific demands. Can you tell us more about them?
Mr. Corbineau: They come from the experience that we have just gone through, the 2011-2012 experience I mentioned. In 2011, at Radio-Canada's provincial bureau in St. John's, Newfoundland, there were three employees, a radio reporter, a TV reporter and a cameraman. Two left voluntarily and no one was hired. After a few months, we realized this and became concerned. If we had not said anything, things would have stayed as they were, with just one employee. We received confirmation in a phone call that the decision was to have only one position.
One of the problems is that, if a reporter goes on holiday, he is not replaced; that makes a dramatic difference. You can imagine if you only had one employee and he was on vacation or off sick for weeks on end, you would have no one. Even with a staff of two, you lose 50 per cent of your staff and all your presence on either television or radio. That really causes problems; these recommendations are a direct result of what we have just gone through. Regrettably, I have to tell you that no reporter has come to our French-speaking regions for two years. Where is the visibility? They show the community in St. John's, but going out into the regions is a big challenge. You will not find this written down anywhere, but it is a question of money. It costs more to go from St. John's to Labrador City — in the same province — than to go from St. John's to Paris.
We already have those challenges as a community organization. Radio-Canada has those challenges too. It always comes down to the costs.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Were you consulted? Did you make Radio-Canada aware of what your needs are?
Mr. Corbineau: We were never consulted. We made contact when we realized that they were going from three people to just one. There was an exchange of telephone calls and then some letters saying, a little more officially, that we were not satisfied with the situation and that we were not going to accept what they wanted to do.
Then a dialogue got started and they agreed to go back to two. That is better than one, but it is not at all satisfactory for one province.
Senator De Bané: In terms of your suggestion to have two journalists per province and territory, let me make you aware of something. We recently had Radio-Canada's director of regional broadcasting here. I asked her if it was correct that they have 230 journalists outside Quebec. She said it was correct. From those 230 journalists outside Quebec, they are giving you one.
A communications professor at UQAM recently published her doctoral thesis, which is the result of some privileged access she had to Radio-Canada's newsroom. She studied how Téléjournal is made. According to her figures, the information function in Radio-Canada's Montreal bureau has 750 people. In my opinion, the fact that your province has only one journalist shows that Radio-Canada should really be called Radio-Québec. Although the legislation says that its mission is to reflect French-speaking Canada, not to represent Quebec to Quebecers.
From what you are saying, Prince Edward Island is the only province with less of a Radio-Canada presence than yours. Having only one employee in your province makes no sense.
I was just wondering whether you were aware that a witness has told us that Radio-Canada has 230 journalists outside Quebec, and you have just one of them. That is unacceptable.
Mr. Corbineau: Thank you, Senator.
Senator De Bané: I will send you the reference to that recently published doctoral thesis.
Let me end by saying that Radio-Canada and CBC have basically the same number of journalists. The only difference is that CBC has a third of its journalists in Ontario, whose population is 60 per cent larger than Quebec's — 13 million as opposed to 8 million. So a third of CBC's journalists are in Ontario while 60 per cent of Radio-Canada's journalists are in Quebec.
Senator Poirier: Thank you for being here. I know that getting here this evening meant long trips for you. We really appreciate your joining us.
Ms. Chartrand, in your presentation, you mentioned a possible solution. You also mentioned a possible partnership with community radio stations, with the facilities and equipment they already have in place. You go so far as to say that such a partnership already exists with United Nations Radio and Radio France Internationale, and so on.
Have you approached Radio-Canada with that idea? If so, what was the reply? If not, why have you not approached them?
Ms. Chartrand: No; since I have been there, I do not think there have been any steps in that direction. Nor has there been any consultation from the other side.
Our organization has recently been restructured and we are focusing on our own media: our radio, our newspaper, our website. But, as this consultation and these issues have come up again, I have been talking to a number of people in the community who in turn have talked to me about their ideas and their view of the situation. Maybe that will give us the incentive to go and knock on some doors.
Senator Poirier: Is that what you intend to do?
Ms. Chartrand: We would really like to, yes.
Senator Poirier: Mr. Corbineau, in Newfoundland, as I understand it, you have also talked about community radio, but you said that the organization is still in its early days.
Is there anything that could be looked at as things move forward? Would there be any interest in your region in sharing infrastructures, equipment and journalists so that it became a little cheaper to serve the region? It would also ensure that you get the services that you deserve and are entitled to.
Mr. Corbineau: Yes, we have thought about it, but that is as far as it has gone at the moment. It is true that it should be explored.
You have to understand that the radio has only been on the air since 2012; so it really is very recent. And there are challenges today, the same challenges faced by a number of community radio stations. Money, for example, and establishing a local advertising market. Those questions need to be looked into. But it is all so new that I cannot give you an answer.
Previous negotiations went further. We have considered partnerships with Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, just off our coast, where they have community radio stations that were interested in forming a network. This is because our community radio has three studios in three main regions that are interconnected, so it is possible to produce and broadcast content in each of our regions.
Anyway, with the new technologies today, the Internet, for example, anyone with a transmitter can sit in their living room and put together a broadcast.
So the idea came up of joining that network of studios with one or two studios in Saint-Pierre and Miquelon so that we could work together with our French-speaking neighbours at the same time.
Senator Poirier: Are you aware of the Radio-Canada services that Saint-Pierre and Miquelon receives? Are there more staff?
Mr. Corbineau: I do not think they get Radio-Canada radio, but they get the television because they have a Canadian satellite. I went there just a few weeks ago and I was able to see it at the hotel. But, as for radio, I did not have the chance to check.
Senator Poirier: The Senate Committee on Official Languages recently published a study on new media, social media and their applications. What place could Radio-Canada provide for new media? Do you think that new media could help Radio-Canada to fulfill its mandate better and provide you with better visibility?
Mr. Corbineau: At the moment, I think the level is very, very low. I believe you are from New Brunswick, Senator, and so you must have seen that Radio-Canada Acadie broadcasts one or two stories a day at the most. That is very little, given the importance of the francophone and Acadian communities in all the Atlantic provinces. So I think there is a huge challenge in that area.
I have had an opportunity to have a discussion with the current director of Radio-Canada Acadie.
Radio-Canada has a great deal to offer to all francophone communities. In the past, for example, there were a huge number of stories about Franco-Newfoundlanders. I am using my province as an example, of course. All that coverage reflects our heritage. In 2004, specifically, during the province's celebrations of the 500th anniversary of a French presence in Newfoundland — we go back a long way, after all — there was an awful lot of reporting about the French presence, on what was called the ``French Shore''. An awful lot of content and stories were produced.
Unfortunately, all that treasure that was gathered on the past, the heritage, of francophones in Newfoundland and Labrador is now gathering dust in cupboards. Radio-Canada does not want to take it back out. It would take very little to digitize it and make it available on the Internet for everyone to see.
We are not asking for it to be on another site. We do not want to make money putting advertising on the sides. We want it to be on their site, available to everyone and to all our communities. There are people who would recognize themselves in it. It really is a pity that Radio-Canada is not doing this work. I feel that the Newfoundland and Labrador example would be valid for all provinces and territories.
So, to answer your question about the new media and the new technologies, it is something that could provide a real service to our communities and to their history and their heritage.
Ms. Chartrand: The new generation of francophones in Iqaluit is quite young. Francophones born in Iqaluit make up quite a new phenomenon because usually the francophones who end up in Iqaluit come from elsewhere in Canada. Now families are becoming established and so on. So, with such a young population, social media would be a good way to penetrate that market. We know how crazy younger generations are for the new media, so yes, it would be interesting, for getting things broadcast, but also for promoting services.
I was saying earlier that a reporter was sent to the Northwest Territories to cover the election. Video content for the Web was produced, and social media were used a lot during the coverage. That is another way to get a large audience or people interested in following the election.
But when it comes to the Web, we were talking about the digitalization of the existing content. I know that a lot of content is produced on the far north, as interest has risen over the past few years. The only problem we have in Nunavut is access to the Internet; high-speed Internet could be called something else. It is very expensive. If you want to watch a show, you can go ahead and make supper. By the time you come back, the show may be completely downloaded. So that is an obstacle, but the Web is certainly a very good way to broadcast French content. However, the technical side of the Internet may currently be impeding Web usage.
Senator Poirier: You talked about a community with some 3,000 people in Newfoundland and Labrador, but what is the situation in Nunavut?
Ms. Chartrand: Iqaluit has the biggest pool of about 450 or 500 people and some more people dispersed throughout other communities.
Senator Poirier: Are there any francophone schools?
Ms. Chartrand: Yes, there is a francophone school, a francophone early childhood centre, an association of francophones, a health care network in French, economic development initiatives. So the structures found in other provinces and territories are in place, but on a smaller scale.
Mr. Corbineau: Earlier, you talked about opportunities to work with Radio-Canada. There is something we have not looked into, but we have thought about. Apparently, it would be fairly low-cost for Radio-Canada to work with community radio stations and allow them to use their equipment and transmitters. It is very costly for a community radio station to have transmitters that are powerful enough to reach the other side of the street. I am exaggerating a little bit, but it is very expensive. And when a relay tower in the field is needed, the cost quickly balloons.
In our project, for instance, the St. John's transmitter was placed on the Centre scolaire et communautaire des Grands-Vents — Grand-Vents school and community centre — to eliminate costs stemming from land lease or purchase. But the signal does not reach very far and does not even cover all of St. John's because we are limited when it comes to height and power.
To give you an example, I think that our transmitter is 300 watts, and Radio-Canada has transmitters in tens of thousands of watts that cover huge geographic areas. There are some very low-cost technical possibilities that would allow us to just install our radio stations' electronic box in their facilities and automatically benefit from the power of their transmitters. That would greatly contribute to our communities. The cost to us would be fairly low, and the cost to them would be practically nothing. So that could be one way to work together.
Senator Tardif: Good evening and welcome. Despite the fact that you have a very small French mother tongue population in your regions, according to the latest statistics, you still have a bigger pool of people who can understand and communicate in French.
I think that, in the case of Newfoundland and Labrador, you have almost eight times as many people who can understand and communicate in French than those for whom French is the first language learned and still understood. And I think the ratio in Nunavut may be three to one. So there is a large pool of people who can communicate in French.
In what way does the absence of a French regional station in your regions undermine the development of your community's francophone vitality?
Ms. Chartrand: When the Association des francophones du Nunavut was created, we saw that it was the lack of hockey — it could have been another other type of entertainment or news — that mobilized people to join forces to obtain the service. Those people probably sat down for a while, filling out the required forms, to obtain a signal in order to get access to it. The community's vitality has a lot to do with the media and information on what is happening here. But in addition, it is not very easy for francophones outside Iqaluit — because Nunavut is very big — to find out what is happening locally when it comes to their association or school.
I know that, recently, mine developments have been attracting francophone workers. Requests have been made for partnerships with the school for francophone families that are settling outside Iqaluit. Eventually, I think the demand for services in French will increase, even outside Iqaluit. In Iqaluit, there are a few hundred of us, and there are surely dozens throughout other communities, but I still think that the demand is there. Mainly families settle there, so they participate in the community.
Senator Tardif: Mr. Corbineau, in what way is not having a regional station on site undermining your development and vitality?
Mr. Corbineau: We are also working hard on establishing our legitimacy. As I already mentioned, our community has about 3,000 people. That is only 0.6 per cent of the province's total population. That is the lowest ratio in Canada. So we have to put in a huge effort to establish our visibility and legitimacy in relation to anglophone communities. The more visible we are, the more legitimate we become. We are working on that.
This is paradoxical, but as I mentioned earlier, the French and the Acadians have been here for over 500 years now. A century ago, there were 50,000 francophones. A lot of work needed to be done.
You also mentioned earlier that many people also speak French around us. The French fact is really well recognized by Newfoundlanders. Francophone information in Newfoundland enables francophones to get informed in their language, but the visibility in relation to anglophones should not be forgotten. The more invisible we are, the less legitimate we will be, and vice-versa.
Senator Tardif: I totally agree with you. I think this has to do with validation and legitimization, which impede assimilation and represent a key factor.
Mr. Corbineau: You mentioned that there are eight times as many Newfoundlanders who speak French. St. John's metropolitan area in Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest rate of French immersion in Canada. The French fact greatly appeals to anglophones. Some parents get in line at 5 a.m. to enroll their children in French immersion in kindergarten. That is incredible.
And francophone media readership is growing. The number of subscribers to our newspaper has been on a considerable rise over the past two years. There are some real contributions and, nowadays, anglophones' participation in our community is increasing.
Senator Tardif: What percentage of that population has no access to any kind of media in French? Does the newspaper cover all the francophones in your regions? What is the situation in terms of radio and television?
Mr. Corbineau: Today, television programming is broadcast by satellite and is available everywhere. The newspaper is delivered by mail, so it is still fairly accessible. As far as radio broadcasts go, let us say that two-thirds of our community are covered. I spent a lot of time analyzing the 2011 census. The data was published in October of last year. As you said earlier, the number of francophones has skyrocketed in all our regions.
Between 2006 and 2011, the francophone population increased by 36 per cent. So that is good news for us. An interesting fact is that the percentage has really gone up in all of our communities. I think that is also due to our visibility and legitimacy. One of the reasons behind that boom is that certain rural regions' economy has not grown. We know that Newfoundland and Labrador has oil and mines, but that is not the case in all of that province's regions.
The percentage of francophones has increased up to 1,100 per cent on the Burin Peninsula, and 40 per cent in Columbo — both areas where economy has not exploded. The work done in terms of cultural identity has certainly led people to recognize the value of saying that their first language is French. They now say that they are francophones and Acadians and want to point that out. In the past, they would fail to recognize that value. So media responsibility also plays a role in the acknowledgement of roots.
Senator Tardif: Mr. Corbineau, I know that you have made very specific recommendations regarding licence renewal. Have you submitted a brief?
Mr. Corbineau: Unfortunately, I have not.
Senator Tardif: You did not put that in a brief?
Mr. Corbineau: No, unfortunately, I did not have the time for it. That is nothing new, as we are very busy.
Senator Tardif: The resources are very limited.
Mr. Corbineau: They are beyond limited. I am currently managing three provincial organizations, including the official mouthpiece organization with many sectors. I am really struggling.
Senator Champagne: Ms. Chartrand, I am finding your presentation even more striking and worrisome now that you are saying that many new francophones are settling around Iqaluit and will need French schools. I am putting myself in the shoes of a mother whose family has settled there with children I want to educate in French. The only time francophone content is on the radio is during the program Boréal Hebdo, which airs on Friday nights at 11 p.m.
As a mother and grandmother, I would have the children in bed before 11 p.m. Kids cannot listen to French radio at home if the only opportunity to hear French content is at 11 p.m. on CBC North.
Ms. Chartrand: Yes, that is a very good point. And 11:05 p.m. on Friday is not ideal, even for adults. You have to ask around to find out about that show, as everyone I have spoken to may have heard about it, but many did not even know it existed. So access to information is fairly limited.
Senator Champagne: If Société Radio-Canada were to conduct a survey to see if anyone was tuning in to listen to that tiny bit of French it broadcasts in your area, it could easily get rid of it, as the program airs when people normally sleep. In addition, there is no advertisement to promote that show airing on Fridays between 11 p.m. and midnight.
What kind of a show is it? Do they play music? Is it an information program?
Ms. Chartrand: The program reports on the Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut. It is a local show that covers the whole north and talks about issues in various regions. I believe that Nunavik is also included. So the show covers current events and hot topics. It is an information program.
Senator Champagne: So it airs at 11 p.m. on Friday nights, on the weekends?
Ms. Chartrand: Yes.
Senator Champagne: And this is the only program you can listen to in your area if you want to hear some French?
Ms. Chartrand: Yes, exactly.
Senator Champagne: I saw the 11:05 p.m. broadcast time. And when you told me about the new francophone families that were settling there, I was even more concerned. According to Radio-Canada's 2015 strategy, the crown corporation apparently wants to expand its services and work with new partners in order to improve its scope and impact. Have you been given any details regarding Radio-Canada's 2015 strategy for your part of the country?
Ms. Chartrand: No. I have read the latest annual report, and I do not remember seeing the word ``Nunavut.'' So I do not think anything is planned for improving the service in Nunavut going forward.
Senator Champagne: Let us not wait for another airplane accident or something like that to hear what is happening in your neck of the woods.
Ms. Chartrand: Indeed.
Senator Champagne: Last year, your legislature passed a bill to make French an official language. Am I dreaming or is that really what happened?
Ms. Chartrand: No, you are not dreaming.
Senator Champagne: That should actually encourage Société Radio-Canada to put in some effort. If French has become an official language, along with English and Inuktitut, I think that should encourage or set the crown corporation on the right track. I assume that those who have worked very hard to make French an official language would also be well positioned to send briefs to Radio-Canada and insist that more than a half an hour or an hour on Friday nights at 11 p.m. be set aside for French content. That suggestion could certainly end up in our report.
Senator McIntyre: I would like to congratulate you on your presentation. I want to congratulate the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador on 40 years of existence, and on your participation in the creation of the francophone newspaper Le Gaboteur in the mid-1980s. Is it true that a Web radio station — Rafale FM — will be established in the near future?
Mr. Corbineau: The Web radio station has already been established, but it is not yet fully operational.
Senator McIntyre: In Nunavut's case, your association has been around for a while, and despite a period of financial and structural difficulty, it has still been somewhat successful. My hat goes off to you!
That being said, last November, the CRTC held hearings for broadcasting licence renewals, and my understanding is that a decision should be made soon. Do you expect anything specific from the CRTC?
Mr. Corbineau: Our expectations are listed in my presentation. As I was saying, we wanted to submit a brief, but I was faced with the fact that we are members of the Société nationale de l'Acadie and the FCFA, both of which have done that work.
Senator McIntyre: With the LPIF gone, do you think that organization will be replaced by another financial agency to help francophones in minority situations?
Mr. Corbineau: If I remember correctly, the LPIF was funded by the CRTC. Can another organization take over in our minority francophone regions? I doubt that very much, especially if we are talking about the same level of financing the LPIF provided — I mentioned it earlier for Acadia — in the amount of $2 million.
Senator McIntyre: I would like to discuss the broadcasting signal in your region. I understand that, in each case, you simply do not have access to a regional signal that belongs to your territory, either in your province or your area of Nunavut. Does CBC have the same problems as you? What kind of a relationship do you have with CBC?
Mr. Corbineau: We have practically no relationship with the anglophone side. They have no problems, as they have offices spread out throughout the province for CBC in Newfoundland. They have fewer offices in Labrador — I know that they are not very present — but they do have offices and antennae set up. There are some programs specifically for Newfoundland and Labrador. They do not have the same issues as us at all. As the senator was saying earlier, they are much more spread out over the territory, and there are clearly more of them.
Senator Robichaud: Ms. Chartrand, based on some of your comments about the Internet during your presentation, as well as some of your answers, my understanding is that food is not the only thing that is expensive in Nunavut, right?
Ms. Chartrand: Yes. I am not sure if I have to give you the figures, but I can tell you that the system is more or less reliable. The system's stability varies depending on whether it is windy, whether it is snowing or raining, if you see what I mean. That is one of the problems stemming from the Internet signal. It is a hot issue. Basic Web browsing is fine, but problems arise as soon as programs or content need to be downloaded. That has to be done overnight. There are also other ways to get around the slow connection, depending on the Internet plan. That is currently the reality for our radio. Downloading reports or programs from other radio stations, with the partners we have, has to be done outside the normal hours in order to have access to files.
Senator Robichaud: Have you compared the prices with those across the country?
Ms. Chartrand: If we consider the cost of food, on average, it is twice as much as it here, so I would imagine it is more or less the same for the Internet. A basic plan costs in the neighbourhood of $70 to $80 per month.
Senator Robichaud: You also said that the availability of regional SRC and RDI signals depended on the subscriber's cable plan. Does that plan also cost twice as much as it does elsewhere in the country?
Ms. Chartrand: I am not sure whether it is double the price, but probably. I cannot really compare it with a similar service in the southern part of the country, as I have not looked at the figures, but we can assume that it costs more.
Senator Robichaud: Could you tell us where the funding for your community radio station, CFRT, comes from?
Ms. Chartrand: A single employee manages the radio station and works very hard to find funding for his salary. Luckily, in Iqaluit, we have an excellent volunteer network we can rely on. It is truly an incredible city in that respect. The people are really involved and devote a lot of their time to the radio station. That is one of the reasons that we are able to keep going. Of course, we have advertising revenue, and we manage to find a few dollars here and there to make ends meet every year.
Senator Robichaud: Does that employee work above and beyond full-time hours?
Ms. Chartrand: The individual works very hard, on a full-time basis, of course. Right now, the board of directors has had to step in to handle funding applications, and that requires a lot of work.
Senator Robichaud: I gather, then, that your community programming is entirely in French?
Ms. Chartrand: Yes. We do offer a little bit in Inuktitut. One very dedicated community member does a program in English, French and Inuktitut. Apparently, it even has listeners in Greenland, Nunavik and so forth. So there is a sizeable audience. We rebroadcast it on our Web radio. We are seeing a bit of an appetite emerging. Again, it is all thanks to a volunteer.
Senator Champagne: Please give them a pat on the back for us.
Ms. Chartrand: I will definitely do that.
Senator Robichaud: I can now appreciate why Radio-Canada would want to partner with community radio; you already provide content and you are already reaching out to the locals.
Ms. Chartrand: The infrastructure is there. There has been a resurgence in radio recently, and things are continuing to skyrocket; we are truly in a great position right now. So I believe a partnership would be beneficial for all the reasons we have just talked about.
Senator Robichaud: Mr. Corbineau, you talked about community radio in St. John's, Newfoundland. But what about the French coast; do the people there have a community radio station?
Mr. Corbineau: Actually, it is the same. It is a provincial radio station. There is a studio on the west coast of Newfoundland, in Grand'Terre, or Mainland in English, with the main studio located in Labrador City. There are three studios right now, and they are all interconnected by systems similar to the Internet. It would appear that we are better served than my neighbour. It is not always easy; we have challenges as well. The same radio is broadcast in all our locations.
Senator Robichaud: How is the coverage broadcast to the various locations, given that you are far from one another?
Mr. Corbineau: It is thanks to the wonder of computers. When a program is made available online, it is in the form of audio files. It is quite simple, really; we put them online and it is automatically synched up in all three locations and broadcast simultaneously. It is also broadcast on the Internet. So absolutely anyone on the planet can tune in.
Senator Robichaud: You have people in each of the regions, then?
Mr. Corbineau: There is a whole network of volunteers. That comes back to what I was saying earlier. We do the initial work to get things going, which is not easy, but we do have volunteers in the regions. We have partnerships with our French-language school board because radio is considered a teaching tool for the young people in our schools.
The Chair: We still have time for some short questions. Senator Mockler?
Senator Mockler: I have a very quick question, Madam Chair. I want to come back to your partnership with Saint- Pierre and Miquelon. What recommendations would you have for both governments?
I am impressed by the number of English speakers who are interested in French immersion. What can they do to improve French-language services in Newfoundland and Labrador?
Mr. Corbineau: There have been talks with Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, in the past, but nothing formal. I know that, on their end, they are inquiring about programming rights with their CRTC counterpart. They have two or three community radio stations. We are still at the discussion phase right now and nothing concrete has happened.
I was just there, and I was again approached about putting something in place with them. It is an area to work on, and nothing concrete has been done yet. That might provide them with an opportunity to learn more about Newfoundland and Labrador's francophone community, while giving us a chance to learn more about them and to make the most of shared opportunities. They are just 25 kilometres away, after all.
Senator Mockler: Absolutely.
Mr. Corbineau: As for your other question, if I go back to the radio example, English speakers are already involved. I know there are immersion schools that have done small programs that are already being broadcast on our airwaves from time to time, with children singing and such.
Forgive me, but I lost track of your question, Senator Mockler.
Senator Mockler: We see that there is a segment of the English-speaking population that is interested in French immersion. And I see that as a very important vehicle for the francophone community in Newfoundland and Labrador. What more could they do, or what role could you play within that group?
Mr. Corbineau: We already do a lot of work with anglophones in all our areas of activity, not just media. We often call them our best partners. As I said earlier, anglophones are already very involved in our activities. Even within our boards of directors, they participate in activities with our employees in a very practical way.
Not that long ago, the French radio station was being run by a young anglophone. In our youth organization, there is also considerable participation with anglophone youth activities. The reason, very often, is that they come from families that do not speak French but they have learned French through immersion and they want to keep up their skills. They come to us to say they want to continue, they want to do things. So they are involved in all areas.
Back on the topic of media, today, teachers are using the Gaboteur as a resource kit or teaching aid, and that goes for immersion as well.
A lot of work has to be done in all areas in order to work more closely with Newfoundland's francophiles, who are a very open-minded bunch. I am not sure whether that answers your question.
Senator Mockler: Yes, perfectly. Thank you.
The Chair: I have three senators who indicated they had a few supplementary questions, very short ones: Senator De Bané, Senator Fortin-Duplessis and Senator Robichaud. No more than five minutes for your three questions and answers.
Senator De Bané: Saint-Pierre and Miquelon has a population of 10,000 or so, does it not?
Mr. Corbineau: Six thousand, roughly.
Senator De Bané: I heard that the ORTF had about a hundred employees there. Do you know the exact number?
Mr. Corbineau: The ORTF has not been in existence for some time. Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon 1ère broadcasts television and radio programming now. I was just at their studio three weeks ago, so I would say that, for both television and radio, they have somewhere between 20 and 26 employees in all.
Senator De Bané: For a population of 6,000, they have about 25 employees. Thank you.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Ms. Chartrand, can you tell me whether all Nunavut schoolchildren learn in Inuktitut?
Ms. Chartrand: No.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Earlier, you said you had English schools and French schools. How does all that work?
Ms. Chartrand: The English-language schools have the Inuktitut program, which students take for a certain number of years. Parents have to choose between English and Inuktitut. The English-language high schools offer French- immersion classes.
The Chair: Senator Robichaud, last question.
Senator Robichaud: Mr. Corbineau, can you tell me whether Saint-Pierre and Miquelon and the community network of Newfoundland and Labrador share reports?
Mr. Corbineau: I think it is mostly one-way. I observed that when I was there the other day. The team in Saint-Pierre and Miquelon regularly rebroadcasts reports from Atlantic Canada. But, on Radio-Canada Acadie, rarely have I seen stories from Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon 1ère, formerly Radio France Outremer or RFO.
Conversely, the Atlantic provinces, including the Acadie region, are Saint-Pierre and Miquelon's neighbours. They are extremely interested in what goes on there, more than the other way around.
Senator Robichaud: Is there any kind of an agreement or exchange between your community organization in Newfoundland and Saint-Pierre and Miquelon?
Mr. Corbineau: We have not yet started anything in that respect, but in the past, there have been talks with radio stations there, and they are interested. The problem they are having has to do with licencing, as with the CRTC. It takes time to obtain a wavelength licence in Canada. They have a French counterpart that does the same thing. So a whole administrative process has to happen first, and it can take years. They are interested, though, because they did bring it up again when I was there not that long ago.
Senator Robichaud: Thank you.
The Chair: Honourable senators, that concludes our question and answer period.
On behalf of the members of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, I want to thank you for your presentations, Ms. Chartrand and Mr. Corbineau, and for your answers to the many questions the senators had.
No doubt you could see just how passionate our committee is about the issue and how eager we are to make recommendations that will benefit Canada's francophone and Acadian minority communities.
My hats off to you for the work you are doing, and on behalf of the committee, thank you.
Mr. Corbineau: Thank you kindly, Madam Chair and honourable senators.
The Chair: I will now suspend the meeting for a few minutes, after which we will reconvene in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)