Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 11 - Evidence - Meeting of March 30, 2015
OTTAWA, Monday, March 30, 2015
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:02 p.m. to pursue its study on best practices for language policies and second-language learning in a context of linguistic duality or plurality.
Senator Claudette Tardif (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I call this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages to order. My name is Claudette Tardif, senator from Alberta, and I am the chair of this committee. I would ask the senators to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
Senator Poirier: Rose-May Poirier from the province of New Brunswick.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec City. Welcome.
Senator Maltais: Ghislain Maltais from Quebec. Welcome.
Senator McIntyre: Senator Paul McIntyre from the province of New Brunswick.
Senator Charette-Poulin: My name is Marie Poulin from northern Ontario.
Senator Chaput: I am Maria Chaput from Manitoba. Good evening.
The Chair: During this 41st Parliament, the members of the committee are examining language policies and second- language learning in a context of linguistic duality or plurality. The goal of the study is to examine existing policies, challenges and best practices that promote learning a second language in countries where there is more than one official language. As part of its study, the committee is examining both the Canadian perspective and the international perspective.
Today, we welcome two groups of witnesses that agreed to appear before the committee.
Senator Maltais: Madam Chair, before you present the witnesses, I have a point of order.
I stumbled on a press release in which the ministers of Francophone Affairs in Quebec and Ontario said that they had met with the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages on February 2.
Either I was not there or I do not remember; but I have not missed any meetings. My colleague here is not aware of this. Did they meet with us or not?
The Chair: They did not meet with the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages in an official capacity. That is a mistake.
Senator Maltais: Then this press release is incorrect.
The Chair: Yes of course, it is a mistake.
Senator Maltais: We should issue. . .
The Chair: I will quote this passage from the press release: "It is in this spirit that the two ministers met with the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages this morning."
This is a mistake. They did not meet with all of the members of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
Senator Maltais: On the weekend, I met a minister from Quebec. He said to me, "You are lucky, you met the Minister of Francophone Affairs from Quebec to discuss official languages."
That surprised me. I checked the press release. But no one here remembers having met the minister.
The Chair: Senator, I personally met with the Minister of Interprovincial Affairs of Quebec concerning Radio- Canada. He had asked to meet me, but we did not meet in any official way.
Senator Maltais: We will have to issue a press release to correct this as soon as possible.
The Chair: Indeed.
Senator Maltais: A press release addressed to the Quebec and Ontario governments and to committee members. Otherwise people will think that we do not attend the committee.
The Chair: I will take note of that, and we will do what needs to be done, senator.
Senator Maltais: Thank you, Madam Chair. That was my short question.
The Chair: We are happy to welcome Pascal Arseneau, Chief Marketing Officer, Groupe Média TFO, and Julie Caron, Director, TFO Éducation, also from Groupe Média TFO.
TFO is a French-language cultural and educational television station that is available across Ontario, as well as in certain regions of Quebec, New Brunswick and Manitoba. We will start with a short video, and then we will hear from Mr. Arseneau and Ms. Caron.
[Presentation of a short video.]
Pascal Arseneau, Chief Marketing Officer, Groupe Média TFO: The Champlain Tablet, which you just saw in this promotional video, is an example of the potential of new media to deliver educational content in a modern format and in a way that Canadians use today. Imagine a digital application like the Champlain Tablet on your tablet or iPad. In addition to having access to historical content in text and video format, you could also have access to Samuel de Champlain's journal, his Twitter account, his electronic address book, his emails, his digital photo album, and so on.
This innovative educational project is one of Groupe Média TFO's contributions to the celebrations around the 400th anniversary of French-language presence in Ontario, something that we are celebrating this year. We are very honoured to have been invited to appear before the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. We are going to present Groupe Média TFO's experience. We are a public agency funded by the Ontario Ministry of Education.
Although there has been a French-language educational channel in Ontario for more than 30 years, TFO has been completely transformed over the last four years. We had to do so to better meet the needs of our viewers, who are primarily young people between the ages of 2 and 12.
As you know, people have changed their media consumption habits over the past few years, and they have done so at an unprecedented rate. You can now watch video content anytime anywhere, and not only on television. Since this transformation, we have seen a marked increase in consumption of content on TFO, in terms of viewership, ratings, the reach of our social media, our presence on the mobile market, and our digital content.
As an example, TFO's television viewership rates grew by 240 per cent over the last two years, while during that same period, the North American industry as a whole saw a decline of 10 per cent in terms of viewership.
On social media, we have reached 70 million views on our YouTube platform, essentially for our educational content Mini TFO for very young children aged 2 to 6. This makes TFO the number one YouTube channel in Canada intended for preschool-aged children, in both languages.
In addition to a television channel, we also operate more than 200 websites, 30 digital applications and 14 social media platforms.
Today, TFO is the only public broadcaster and producer of educational content in a minority setting — not only in Canada but, as far as we know, anywhere in the world.
Today, we would like to present TFO Éducation, our specially designed service tailored for school children, which offers 7,000 pedagogical resources on its website to more than 30,000 teachers and 2 million students in English and French-language schools all across Canada.
I will ask my colleague Julie Caron, Director of TFO Éducation, to tell you more. But first of all, I would like to present another video.
[Presentation of a short video.]
Julie Caron, Director, TFO Éducation, Groupe Média TFO: Hello. First of all, I would say that the success of TFO Éducation is based on our ability to support teachers and students in developing the skills they need to learn in the 21st century. These are essential skills such as cooperation, creativity, critical thinking and communication.
Thanks to the TFO Éducation website, teachers, students, parents and our community partners have access to quality pedagogical resources online in French, resources which reflect the priorities and plans of Canada's education ministers.
The TFO Éducation Web platform is designed to meet the specific needs of Canadian educators and to provide them with a space where they can work and discuss things with their colleagues and their students. Furthermore, the rich and authentic content provided by TFO Éducation help teachers carry out teaching activities that are engaging and dynamic for students and that deal with important and current subjects.
I will give you some numbers. TFO Éducation has more than 7,000 educational resources, videos, websites, games, applications, teaching guides and so on. It is also associated with 72 school boards in Ontario, in other words all of the French-language and English-language school boards, with the English-language school boards being involved because of their French as a second language programs (French Immersion/Extended French).
There are also 63 school boards outside of Ontario which have subscriptions, including B.C., Alberta and Nova Scotia. I would also mention that since 2010, TFO has been the official designated provider of educational resources for all the school boards in Manitoba.
Although our products were originally intended for French-language education, TFO Éducation has always been a great subject of interest in communities where French is taught as a second language.
In August 2014, there was a significant development that allowed us to take an important step in that direction, through a partnership with the Ontario Ministry of Education, to provide access to our services to all English-language school boards in Ontario.
This agreement also allowed us to develop a new way for teachers to find resources tailored to the specific level of second language ability, as based on the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages. This has opened the door to even better relationships with all francophiles around the world.
Finally, visits to our TFO Éducation website have been steadily increasing since its creation — a clear sign that people are interested in learning French in Canada and in receiving online digital educational content. As an example, in a study involving 1,200 respondents, mainly teachers, in June 2014, 45 per cent of teachers who subscribe to the service said that they use TFO Éducation videos at least once a week in the classroom. Furthermore, 88 per cent of these teachers said they were fully satisfied with the resources provided by TFO Éducation which allowed them to meet their needs in a school context.
Mr. Arseneau: In conclusion, Groupe Média TFO has 165 employees in Toronto, Ottawa and Sudbury. But our activities are national, as you have heard, and as our many partnerships demonstrate; we have been developing them over the last few years with partners such as community media and official language minority communities across the country, and organizations like Canadian Parents for French.
TFO Éducation is an educational media tailored to the needs of francophone minority communities and French as a second language students in Canada. We already reach nearly 700,000 Canadian households outside of Ontario, either by cable or by satellite, mainly in New Brunswick, Quebec and Manitoba. However, TFO has less reach in the Western provinces in particular.
We have started the process of renewing our broadcasting licence with the CRTC. In this context, Groupe Média TFO has asked the CRTC to grant TFO mandatory carriage on all distribution networks, as per part 9(1)(h) of the Broadcasting Act. The goal of this request is to ensure that francophones in all regions of Canada have access to educational programming from Groupe Média TFO.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak to you. We are now available to answer your questions.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Caron and Mr. Arseneau. We will now move to questions. The first question will be from the deputy chair of the committee, Senator Fortin-Duplessis, to be followed by Senator McIntyre.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Mr. Arseneau and Ms. Caron, I am so happy that you were able to participate in our committee. I would like to congratulate you on the two videos that you presented.
We are all aware of the effects that new technologies and social media can have on our youth. I have noticed that Groupe Média TFO is a leader in this regard.
I also want to congratulate you for your commitment to develop and make available French-language teaching resources to families, teachers and students.
In your opinion, should the federal government play a role in implementing a future national strategy?
Mr. Arseneau: That's a good question. Currently, TFO Éducation receives almost 100 per cent of its funding from the Ontario Ministry of Education. There is some additional revenue provided by cable distributors. Various programs, including federal programs, allow TFO Éducation to have access to special funding for digital television productions.
There are several programs available once you have broad national distribution. An organization can obtain a support in order to allow Canadians to be aware of the services they offer. Very recently, I referred to our project Le rêve de Champlain, of which you saw a short excerpt. This is a series that we launched as part of the 400th anniversary of the French presence in Ontario. For this project, Heritage Canada gave us $407,000.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Do you have anything to add, Ms. Caron?
Ms. Caron: That support from Heritage Canada allowed us to develop teaching kits that were sent to schools to allow teachers to use this video in social sciences classes, French classes and French as a second language classes.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Could you tell us about the real reach of these new digital resources? In fact, these are new tools that you are using in teaching. Do you have an idea of their scope?
Mr. Arseneau: That is an excellent question. It would be difficult to give you a definitive picture of the situation, because the situations are very different from one region to another. However, we have observed that social media are being used more and more in the classroom.
I think that Julie will be able to provide some more specific examples.
Ms. Caron: Yes indeed, there are teaching strategies that promote the usage of videos. These are inverted classes where teachers seek to share videos with students so that they can use them not only at school, but also at home to work on their homework or any other assignment.
It is a difficult question to answer. However, we do note that the usage of digital media in education is no longer limited to the classroom, but is well integrated into the whole spectrum of learning. What is more, this garners the participation of parents and other various community stakeholders, thus increasing its reach.
Mr. Arseneau: This goes beyond the world of education, into the world of the media. A 2014 study shows that young people are watching more and more videos on mobile platforms such as on the phone or on the tablet computer. They watch content that can be found on channels such as YouTube and on television. As it stands, over 50 per cent of video content is watched on mobile platforms rather than on television.
There have been significant changes in the video-watching habits among youth in all spheres of activity as well as in the classroom.
Senator McIntyre: Ms. Caron and Mr. Arseneau, I would like to thank you for your presentations. It is clear that teaching methods for second-language learning have very much changed over the years.
As you mentioned, your education television channel is broadcast throughout Ontario as well as in certain regions of Quebec, Manitoba, and New Brunswick. How many subscribers do you have in my home province, New Brunswick?
Mr. Arseneau: I unfortunately do not have an answer to your question. If I may, I will get back to you with the correct answer. I would not want to give you false information.
Senator McIntyre: Is your channel popular in this province?
Mr. Arseneau: We could be doing more. We recently went on tour around the eastern provinces. Julie participated in some of these meetings and she would no doubt to be able to give you some more information.
Ms. Caron: Yes, I also have a figure to give you on subscription levels for TFO Éducation, which is different. Your question was regarding subscriptions to cable, but the TFO Éducation platform that provides educational content for Nova Scotia. . . I am sorry but we do not have the data for New Brunswick. As it stands, among our subscribers, we have a school board from New Brunswick and two school boards from Nova Scotia.
I am sorry. I thought that I had the statistics with me. School boards subscribe their teachers to TFO Éducation, which means that they can broadcast educational content in schools, content that it then shared with their students.
Senator McIntyre: The CRTC issued a licence to TFO Éducation in 2008. The licence will expire in August of this year. These past two years, stakeholders have very often stated that they would like to see mandatory distribution of TFO Éducation throughout Canada. I also understand why the CRTC did not follow through with this request. Do you have any news from CRTC on the subject?
Mr. Arseneau: In fact, TFO Éducation has never made such a request. As far as I know, this is the first time that we have tabled an order request pursuant to paragraph 9(1)(h). The request was not tabled by TFO Éducation, but by various communities. Requests were made by the public or organizations that wanted to have this broadcast nationally.
Along with its recent regulatory policy on distribution, the CRTC just published a report titled Let's Talk TV: A World of Choice. The CRTC is considering expanding the reach of educational television services beyond provincial borders. It is an important sign from the CRTC, because it allows all terrestrial distribution undertakings to include out-of-province educational television services. The door is therefore open, and the time was right to submit this application.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank you, Mr. Arseneau and Ms. Caron, for having accepted our invitation. Since I am from Ontario, I will take this opportunity to congratulate your president and chief executive officer, Glenn O'Farrell, as well as the whole team, for the extraordinary work done by TFO Éducation, not only on the traditional channel but also in the use of new distribution tools.
I sincerely congratulate you on the important role you play in education in Ontario. Mr. Arseneau, you said at the beginning that TFO is enjoying a significant increase in its ratings and the use of its services. To what do you attribute this increase?
Mr. Arseneau: If I had the answer, I could sell it to other networks and make a lot of money. We do have a bit of an idea. In fact, during this time of transformation in media and the way media is consumed, organizations like ours were very nervous about whether our content should stay on TV platforms or whether we should broadcast it on all platforms instead. It is clear now that whether it is a person taking the bus and watching a music video or someone waiting for a taxi and listening to the news on their phone, we have to offer our content on the platforms that people are using. It is a chance we took a few years ago. We believe that one of the reasons there has been an increase in ratings is that our content is now found everywhere and that brings people back to the channel. Once we are part of their daily life at different times, they want to find us, whether it is through the news that we put on our social media and that we broadcast on cell phones, or through our digital applications on tablets, et cetera.
Senator Charette-Poulin: It is because of accessibility?
Mr. Arseneau: That is what we are hoping, in any case.
Senator Charette-Poulin: We have had many witnesses here with whom we have discussed, a number of times, the importance of the training of second-language teachers. What relationship do you have with teachers? The products are mostly aimed at children — or the young at heart — but what relationship do you have with teachers?
Ms. Caron: Regarding the TFO Éducation platform, what we do is use the educational content produced and broadcasted by TFO. We categorize it and prepare it for education, so that we speak the same language as the teacher. That way the teacher can find resources, content or videos, for example, based on grade level, topic or themes that are important to education.
For example, a teacher could decide to search for content for students aged 8 to 10 about bullying, to use it in their social studies course. By presenting that content to teachers, we allow them to find what they are looking for and what meets their needs and, of course, the needs of their students.
However, as part of our education services, we also offer teachers different workshops, including teaching support, and workshops delivered in person. We have a small team that offers workshops for teachers on our resources to school boards and schools, but also on the way these resources can be used in teaching. We have a very good educational program, but we want to make it an engaging activity, that has educational value.
We also offer support by email and over the phone to teachers who request it. TFO Éducation has a small team, but we work very hard to deliver our educational content in the best possible way to teachers. We also prepare educational guides and sheets on the use of the content. Through an educational sheet, we propose ideas for classroom use to teachers who find a video on content that is of interest to them. All of that can be accessed and downloaded from the TFO Éducation website.
Senator Maltais: I am glad you are here. In Quebec, we have Radio-Québec which, when it started, was mandated to promote the French language in Quebec, in the regions, through culture.
Today, the government does not know what to do with Radio-Québec anymore. Millions of dollars have been invested yet Radio-Canada cannot differentiate itself from channel V, which only airs shows that garner profitable ratings.
We talked about ratings earlier. You know that now, in Quebec, the TFO channel is included by Videotron. I wonder if you do not have better ratings with youth than Radio-Québec. Since I am a grandfather, I allow myself to watch what my grandchildren watch on TV. They are very interested in what you make, because they are in elementary school. I applaud you for that.
One question intrigues me. Do you offer the same educational materials to youth in high school as youth in elementary school? What I have seen is for children aged 0 to 11 or 12, but I have not seen anything else. Perhaps I am mistaken; in that case, please correct me.
Mr. Arseneau: We offer content for the whole learning continuum, including the college level. As you have noted, our strength is in the under-12 bracket. In our inventory of resources, we also have content for preschoolers. Furthermore, we have reached an agreement with the Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario, AFÉSEO, which is an association of early childhood educators, as well as all teachers, at the elementary, high school and even college level. As you have noticed, most of our television content is for children aged 2 to 12.
Senator Maltais: Last week, we welcomed the Swiss ambassador, who told us that in his country, there is a three- language program. Senator Charette-Poulin asked him for the recipe for it, and his answer was, "immersion, immersion, immersion". In your education materials, have you also covered immersion?
Ms. Caron: Yes. In fact, as I said earlier, historically TFO mainly served francophones, French-language schools in Ontario, which were its main target group. However, over the years, we have developed content for immersion programs, so there are different levels. We have adapted some content, some teachers' guides, to make them usable tools, to offer teachers adaptations to use in immersion, but with the same content.
Thanks to the new agreement reached with the Ministry of Education of Ontario, we are developing a lot more content and teachers' guides, and we cover all types, even core French. However, immersion remains, for us, in terms of French as a second language, our most natural target. Therefore, we prepare a large amount of content for immersion.
Senator Maltais: Your funding is essentially from the government, whether federal or provincial. Do you seek sponsors who would like to join TFO?
Mr. Arseneau: In fact, TFO has been selling air time to partners or sponsors for a number of years, always according to certain rules. We try to avoid offering commercial slots at ill-suited times, for example, of course, during children's programming. However, we currently have corporate and even government partners. I can give you the example of the Ministry of Health of Ontario that buys air time from TFO for a health campaign.
Senator Maltais: I have one last little comment: keep your Sunday night opera show. You are the only ones who have it in North America. If we had to pay $2 more a week, we would. Keep it, please.
Senator Chaput: I would first like to thank you because in my home province of Manitoba, TFO is very popular. You are one of our partners, so to speak. Keep up your good work.
My two questions are about your CRTC licence renewal application to become a mandatory channel. Has that application been made?
Mr. Arseneau: The application has been made.
Senator Chaput: This year?
Mr. Arseneau: Yes.
Senator Chaput: You have the support of a lot of people all over Canada. I am sure that you mentioned that.
Mr. Arseneau: I will take advantage of your comment to tell you that in fact, we pay close attention to the support we have. As of a few days ago, it is possible for people to support our licence renewal application as well as the mandatory distribution application submitted pursuant to section 9(1)(h) on the CRTC's website.
Senator Chaput: If your application to be one of the mandatory channels is approved, what effect will that have on TFO?
Mr. Arseneau: There is just one educational channel for minority settings in Canada, and that is TFO. We already receive significant requests, first from the education sector, but also from communities themselves that want to have more access to French content in their region.
For a number of years now, TFO has made efforts with cable companies in Canada. We have had success in some areas and less in others. Our goal is to provide access to our educational content to all Canadians. That fits well into the CRTC's report, which opens the door to that possibility.
Senator Chaput: I do not know if it is a question I should ask, but I am too curious: if you are accepted and your channel becomes mandatory, will the content be considered Canadian content?
Mr. Arseneau: Yes.
Senator Chaput: Does that apply in this case?
Mr. Arseneau: Regarding the content we produce or acquire, we have CRTC obligations to respect, which include Canadian content quotas in the evenings. The CRTC recently made changes to those quotas, but there are still obligations for some time slots. Regardless of the obligations — I do not have the exact numbers with me — for a number of years TFO has surpassed the CRTC quotas. We are producing more and more, not only in French in Ontario, but in French all over Canada. In the evenings, we now have a platform called 24.7 that reports on francophone life in Canada. Teams travel the country, and we have partnerships with community media all over Canada, which allow us to obtain content that we broadcast on television or on mobile platforms.
The Chair: We would like you to send the additional information you talked about to our clerk.
Mr. Arseneau: Of course.
Senator Poirier: Thank you for being here. Your presentation was very interesting, and we greatly appreciated it.
First, I would like to know if school boards have to pay subscription fees to TFO?
Mr. Arseneau: Yes.
Senator Poirier: Are these fees paid by the government of the province?
Ms. Caron: With a few exceptions, subscription fees are usually paid by each school board or each school district. In Manitoba's case, however, we have an agreement with the Direction des ressources éducatives francophones. It covers all of Manitoba's school boards. Aside from Ontario, where the agreement was reached with the Ministry of Education, agreements are with school boards, or sometimes schools. In Quebec, no school board subscribes to TFO Éducation, but some schools subscribe individually.
Senator Poirier: Are the fees based on the number of schools that are part of the school board?
Ms. Caron: Currently, these are based on the number of students registered. If it is a francophone school board, we take into account the number of students registered at the school board, and if it is an anglophone school board, we look at the number of students registered in immersion.
Senator Poirier: Are there a lot of registrations in French immersion in anglophone school boards?
Ms. Caron: Yes. We prepared a little information kit. Unfortunately, this is the previous one. I do not remember the numbers well, but there is some balance. Many anglophone school boards include their students who are registered in French as a second language programs.
Senator Poirier: If a francophone school district does not subscribe and a parent or a student wants to connect to TFO Média other than through YouTube, for example, is that possible?
Mr. Arseneau: For some time, it has been possible to subscribe individually. However, when we produce or acquire shows, there are certain rights associated with them. Broadcasting that content is done according to conditions that allow us to broadcast content in an educational context. If the shows are broadcasted for educational purposes, we can sell subscriptions. That is how we developed this subscription model whereby school boards or provinces may subscribe, and now individuals. A teacher could subscribe individually.
Ms. Caron: However, a student cannot do so because, for now, given that they are educational rights, we have to ensure that the resources will be used in an educational context, in a school context. That is why, for now, we have to go through schools and school boards. It is really for the platform that has 7,000 videos. However, we offer a lot of content. Regarding mobile platforms, many educational applications are available free of charge in the App Store and the Google Store. The general public can download these applications free of charge and use them. TFO Éducation is really accessible on all of these platforms, with the array of resources that include all of the content for students, but also all of the tools and services for teachers.
Senator Poirier: Do you sometimes have specific requests from the provinces? Sometimes, teaching methods are different from one province to another. Are there provinces that ask you for a different program method?
Ms. Caron: There are not a lot of specific requests related to broadcasting or the production of content. Requests are related more to the presentation of content or the search for it. For example, if a group or school board has a specific request for content that covers a certain theme, but under a certain angle, we create a file or a specific list for that school board or that province by linking it with the framework or the priority set out. It is more a matter a presentation and access to content than production as such.
However, there is something we have done in the past, that we do not do systematically, and that we are starting to integrate much more into our practices: when we prepare educational sheets, we always try to be inclusive. We do not only focus on Ontario's programs, even though we strongly base ourselves on them. We will not necessarily make specific references; we will try to include everything that is happening in all Canadian provinces and take into account the needs of students and teachers in Canada. However, we are developing more and more correspondence grids, in which we propose to Ontario teachers all of the shows that are available, for each level in social studies and for all subjects for each grade. We are creating these charts for all Canadian provinces, by linking them to all curricula, all Canadian programs. It is a big project. Little by little, we will do it. Moreover, we have started to create this type of tool for teachers so that all of our clients can use our resources more easily.
The Chair: Learning a second language does not just happen in the classroom. Learning is enhanced when a student has authentic experiences. To what degree is this authenticity factor important for you in developing your educational resources?
Ms. Caron: Of course, one of the important points to highlight here is that TFO's content is by definition, authentic content in the sense that it is content developed for children who speak French at all levels. What we try to emphasize on the TFO Éducation platform and within the programming of the Groupe Média TFO is all diversity: linguistic diversity, accent diversity, and the cultural diversity of francophones in Canada and the world.
Therefore, we do not try to polish our content to have a particular standard, international French, for example. On the contrary, we highlight differences and what unites people and those differences. What do the stars of our content have in common? The French language. We show different accents, different cultures, and we celebrate them instead of trying to level them out, ultimately. That is what we believe. A comment we often receive from the French as a second language community expresses the fact that it is an asset when TFO offers authentic resources. We give children access to all of the authenticity of different francophones in Canada and the world.
The Chair: For the second round, Senator Charette-Poulin and Senator Maltais will ask the last questions.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Arseneau, you spoke earlier about the application that will be submitted to the CRTC today. On my BlackBerry, I read TFO's email that explains how I could support the application. If my memory serves me, was there not an application that what submitted to the CRTC to include TFO in basic service in Quebec, an application that was unfortunately refused? Given this refusal, what approach will TFO use with the CRTC?
Mr. Arseneau: Unfortunately, I do not have an answer to this question. I would like to be able to provide one, but I cannot. I do not have the information.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Could you send us the information, as the chair requested earlier?
Mr. Arseneau: Indeed. Currently, distribution is carried out in Quebec on a voluntary basis by the cable companies Vidéotron, TELUS and Cogeco.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Roughly what percentage of your educational products are Canadian products?
Ms. Caron: That is an excellent question.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Could you send us the answer?
Ms. Caron: Yes, we will find it for you.
Senator Charette-Poulin: You spoke about copyright, Ms. Caron. Given that these are educational products and viewership is on the rise, what is the impact on copyright-related costs?
Ms. Caron: That is the question that I would have to double-check, but, to my knowledge, educational rights do not have —
Senator Charette-Poulin: Are not subject —
Ms. Caron: I have been at TFO for three years now, and I have not seen any increase or change in fees as a result of this.
Mr. Arseneau: We hold the Canadian rights for all content that we acquire. When it is content that we produce ourselves, there may be international rights. We have much more latitude with respect to the use of content. But the content that we acquire comes with location-based rights. A user in United States would not be able to download a video with rights in Canada. These rights have not increased. What is increasing is when content is offered at the international level. Customer service must be provided, and we have a team responsible for offering services to teachers and an advisory service. This results in additional costs.
Senator Maltais: From what I have seen, the content of your platform is very well done. The content that you provide the teachers is quite well thought out. Is TFO responsible for this design, and, when you create this platform, is TFO subject to the requirements of the Ontario Ministry of Education?
Ms. Caron: Yes. So the development and platform design are carried out in compliance with the requirements of the Ontario Ministry of Education, and in consultation with users, teachers. We carried out many consultations, discussion groups and surveys of teachers about their needs and requirements.
Senator Maltais: Thank you very much. Keep up the good work.
The Chair: I would ask you to please send the information to our clerk. There were a number of pieces of information, I believe. On behalf of the Committee on Official Languages I would like to thank you very sincerely for your presentation to us today, but I would particularly like to congratulate you on your commitment and your excellent work for francophones and francophiles. Thank you very much.
Mr. Arseneau: Thank you to you.
The Chair: Honourable senators, during the next portion of our meeting, we will hear from individuals who are at the table when decisions are made about the development and implementation of second-language learning programs in schools.
We have the pleasure of welcoming from Halifax, by videoconference, Ms. Élaine Melanson, Core French and Intensive French Consultant with the Nova Scotia Department of Education and Early Childhood Development; and from British Columbia, we welcome Ms. Christey Hughes, Member-at-large of the Board of Administration at the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers.
Welcome to you both.
I would invite Ms. Melanson to begin her presentation; we will then hear from Ms. Hughes. The senators will then ask you questions.
[English]
Élaine Melanson, Core French and Intensive French Consultant, Nova Scotia Department of Education and Early Childhood Development: Good evening. It gives me great pleasure to join you this evening by video conference. I'm honoured by the invitation to participate in the committee's study on second-language learning in the context of linguistic duality or plurality. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to you about current innovations and issues in French second-language learning in Nova Scotia.
My name is Élaine Melanson. I'm a French second-language or FSL consultant at the Nova Scotia Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. Although I have responsibilities for most aspects of FSL programming in Nova Scotia, my main focus is officially that of core French and intensive French. However, beyond my experience at the ministerial level, more than 20 years of my 33-year career in French second-language education have been spent as a classroom teacher who has taught from Grade 2 to Grade 12 in immersion and in core French programs in both Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. I speak to the committee not only as a curriculum developer, administrator and leader in the field of French second-language education but also from my professional perspective as a very proud FSL teacher who continues to be passionate about fostering a love of the French language and francophone culture in our learners.
First, I wish to say that the Nova Scotia Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is most grateful for the Official Languages In Education Protocol, OLEP, the multi-year, multilateral agreement between the Government of Canada and, on behalf of our province, the Council of Ministers of Education Canada, CMEC. While the provincial contribution to FSL programs in Nova Scotia is significant, the funds provided through the protocol offset additional costs associated with French second-language programs, including the establishment and long-term support of new French immersion and intensive French classes, professional development opportunities for teachers, resource purchases, bursaries for FSL teachers and students, and support to external stakeholders, such as Canadian Parents for French — Nova Scotia. OLEP monies also allow us to purchase additional placements for participants in the Explore program, the CMEC's five-week French-language bursary program. Funding is also offered through OLEP to our seven anglophone school boards so that they may provide cultural activities that promote awareness, understanding and appreciation for francophone culture as well as foster a sense of bilingual identity in our second- language learners.
In Nova Scotia, we provide a variety of French second-language programs for students from grade primary to Grade 12. Core French begins in Grade 4 and is mandatory for all students until the end of Grade 9. It is then offered as an option at the senior high school level. Both early and late French immersion programs are optional, with all of our anglophone school boards offering either one or both of these choices. Integrated French, in which students must take courses in French language arts and social studies, is an optional program from Grades 7 to 12 and is often established in areas where a full immersion program is not viable. Intensive French at the Grade 6 level is in place in four anglophone school boards with plans for expansion to the remaining three boards in September 2015.
We are proud of the many successes of our French second-language programs, two of which I will touch on in a few moments. But we in Nova Scotia face challenges with our programs, one of which is student retention in core French. Despite a decrease in population in our province, French immersion remains a popular option and enjoys sustained levels of student enrolment across time. However, in core French, the number of students who choose not to continue in the program after Grade 9 is alarming. This trend is not by any means unique to Nova Scotia. Statistics compiled by Canadian Parents for French for the 2013-14 school year show a precipitous drop in student enrolment in core French at the high school level across the provinces and territories. I took those statistics from CPF's documents.
While it must be noted that numerous factors influence a student's decision to continue to study French in high school and that the decision to not choose core French as an option in Grades 10 to 12 may not necessarily reflect a student's attitude toward learning French as a second language, it is disheartening to see that, nationally, only 38 per cent of eligible students continue their studies in core French to the end of Grade 12.
Nova Scotia, indeed Atlantic Canada in general, also faces challenges concerning the retention of qualified FSL teachers. We continue to see a number of our younger teachers head west to accept FSL teaching positions in other regions of Canada, often for economic and/or family reasons. While we are not yet at the point of a shortage of qualified French second-language teachers in Nova Scotia, the possibility of this looms large. This is certainly a concern for those of us in FSL leadership, both at the ministry and at the school board level, especially its potential impact on our ability to continue to offer the variety of high-quality FSL programs currently in place in our school system.
But where there are challenges, there are also opportunities for action. Nova Scotia is considered to be a leader in innovation in French second-language education in Canada, and we have put in place a number of initiatives not only to address current issues but also to enhance our programs and to motivate our FSL learners. I wish to speak to you this evening about two of these major initiatives that we have in place in our province. The first one targets program reform, and the second one is designed to create cultural awareness and appreciation of Canadian bilingualism.
First, since 2007, Nova Scotia has been implementing a revitalization of our core French program. This involves retraining teachers from Grades 4 to 12 in the use of the Neurolinguistic Literacy Approach, the methodology that is at the heart of the success of intensive French across Canada. This six-year initiative began as a pilot project in two of our school boards, with a view to determine whether that methodology, combined with a measure of intensity created by offering blocks of instructional time in core French within the participating school's timetable, would measurably increase students' ability to communicate orally in French. Although time does not permit me to explain in detail the various aspects of the project, testing of the participating students at the beginning and again at the end of each school year of the project showed that students do have an increased capacity to communicate in French where teachers are successfully implementing this methodology in their core French classroom regardless of the grade level.
As well, surveys administered by the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development to participating teachers, school and school board administrators and students showed an increase in positivity toward the teaching and learning of French as a second language, student pride in seeing themselves as successful learners of French, and a heightened awareness of the importance of bilingualism as an essential part of the Canadian identity.
As the success of this project grew and became widely known, an increasing number of FSL teachers requested to be included in the initiative. In fact, the demands became so great that the project was reconfigured to focus on creating cohorts of teachers and learners across all school boards instead of working with only small groups of individual teachers in a few specific areas of the province.
It is with great pride that I have witnessed first-hand the profound and positive impact that this project has had on how core French is taught and learned in Nova Scotia. I have had students tell me that it has completely changed how they felt about their learning experience in core French and their perception of what it means to be bilingual. Many of them stated that their participation in the project has motivated them to continue learning French beyond Grade 9. Teachers have told me that their experience in the project has revitalized their careers as core French educators. School administrators have expressed their enthusiasm for core French as both groups see the success that their students are having within the project. And, although parents were not officially a part of the project, many have contacted me to express their delight in the positive attitude their child now displays toward learning French and in hearing their child actually use French to communicate. It is important to note also that French second-language school board coordinators and program directors in our province have also indicated to me that, as a direct result of this project, there is an increased demand for core French classes at the senior high school level across Nova Scotia.
We continue to train cohorts of core French teachers from Grades 4 to 12 in this methodology. We have also extended this professional development to teachers of early and late French immersion and integrated French programs in Nova Scotia, particularly to those who teach in the entry-point levels of these programs, specifically at primary, also known as kindergarten, and in Grade 7. They too report increased student success in language acquisition and student engagement when the Neurolinguistic Literacy Approach is used to teach French as a second language.
Many other jurisdictions in Canada have inquired about our project, and we are pleased to share information and data as they look to our model to enhance their own core French programs and to collaborate with them in the promotion of student success in core French across the country.
Second, a vitally important part of our work in French second-language programs in Nova Scotia is to foster an appreciation of the French language and of francophone cultures in our learners. To that end, in 2014, the ministry partnered with Atlantic ViewFinders, an organization whose mandate is to bring curriculum-based, hands-on film programs and workshops to Atlantic Canadian students. In collaboration, we developed a film project in which students in French immersion programs and French first-language Acadian schools would come together in Chéticamp, a rural community in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, to learn about and participate in the traditional Acadian celebration of Mi-Carême, or Mid-Lent, in March. French first- and second-language students were given the opportunity to learn side by side about this unique celebration by participating in workshops that taught them traditional Acadian dances and folk songs and the significance of Mi-Carême costumes and involved them in the construction of their very own Mi-Carême masks, which they wore with pride during the actual celebration. The students were billeted with Acadian families for the duration of their visit and interacted with members of the Acadian community and each other during the three days of the project, which culminated in an evening of house-to-house visits, dancing and song in the community of Chéticamp.
Throughout the project, the students were filmed and interviewed about how their participation in the Mi-Carême preparations and celebration influenced their previous understanding of Acadian culture. The students also spoke about how they perceived themselves as bilingual learners before, during and after living, working and celebrating with the Acadian community. A DVD of their experience was produced and debuted at the 2014 Atlantic Film Festival. This was subsequently distributed as a learning resource for schools in Nova Scotia.
The project proved to be such a success that a similar project is currently being planned in collaboration with Parks Canada for the coming 2015-16 school year. This next production will involve a larger number of French first- and second-language students, as well as those from at least one Mi'kmaq First Nation community in Nova Scotia. Authentic learning experiences such as this that offer FSL students first-hand contact with francophones and francophone culture are invaluable to building bridges of understanding between cultural groups and reinforcing the importance of the linguistic duality of our country.
These are but two of the many ways in which we are working to promote French second-language learning in Nova Scotia. The importance placed on bilingualism and the development of a bilingual identity in our French second- language learners in our province is reflected in The Three 3Rs: Renew, Refocus and Rebuild — Nova Scotia's Action Plan for Education, released in January by the Honourable Karen Casey, Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. In her plan, Minister Casey has directly targeted three initiatives designed to promote French second- language learning, specifically to implement core French programs that use interactive and conversational teaching methods, to add more intensive French programs in schools at the Grade 6 level, and to provide additional opportunities for Grade 12 students to graduate with DELF, Diplôme d'études en langue française, certification.
In close collaboration with our French second-language partners at the school board level and with our external stakeholders, as well as with the ongoing support of the governments of Nova Scotia and of Canada, we will continue to strive to advance and enhance French second-language learning and to promote Canadian bilingualism and francophone culture in Nova Scotia.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
[Translation]
Christey Hughes, Member-at-large, Board of Administration, Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers: Good afternoon. I would like first of all to thank you for your invitation to come to speak to you about the administrative perspective in French immersion. I am familiar with the program because I was one of its graduates.
Today, I still work in this program as the assistant director of an immersion school in British Columbia. I moved into this position after working as a teacher and a language program coordinator in the past. I had the opportunity to study at Faculté Saint-Jean when the Honourable Senator Tardif was the dean there. It is a pleasure to see you again!
I would like to thank my colleague, Martha Godon, who is here in the audience, behind me. She is the Communications and Conference Coordinator at the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers.
We celebrate official linguistic duality while taking into account rich multicultural diversity. School administrators address a number of issues, exploring the French immersion context in relation to the learning of a second or additional language. In our case, the issue is French immersion.
Let's consider both sides of the coin. I have consulted colleagues in administration, university professors and educational consultants. The reality is that it is sometimes difficult to hire administrators who are bilingual for immersion schools. Some professionals are leaders in curriculum; others are experts in administration.
[English]
According to Dr. Tory Handford:
The ideal is the embodiment of both a leadership skill-set and a language methodology skill-set in a single person. The struggle is that we hardly ever find that. First, we need an individual with leadership capacity to move goals forward for student learning. Speaking fluent French is important [for the school leader], but not at the expense of school leadership.
[Translation]
Often, in our schools that house both French immersion programs and English programs, the administration does not speak French. To become a school principal, one must be able to manage the daily affairs of a school and demonstrate upstream leadership skills. Even with all of the support of a unilingual administration, I realize the importance of encouraging teachers, not only in their professional development, but also, in some cases, in their language development.
Currently, despite the high quality of immersion programs graduates, there is a shortage of qualified immersion teachers. This could create problems when it comes to ensuring a quality level of French in immersion. However, we are seeing more and more francophile teachers who are graduates of immersion programs. This is a testament to the enormous success of the program and university programs that offer this training. However, even with this new wave of teachers, we will need to continue to attract candidates.
[English]
According to the 2014 report from Canadian Parents for French — British Columbia & Yukon Branch, ". . . the shortage of qualified FI personnel does indeed limit the expansion of FI programs . . ."
[Translation]
In his text, Duncan Hazelwood, a modern languages helping teacher, said the following:
[English]
There is . . . a growing need to encourage . . . FI teachers to practise and study the language in order to maintain their fluency.
[Translation]
By meeting these needs, a growing number of initiatives at the post-secondary level seek to train the next generation of francophile administrators in the field of education. Simon Fraser University and the University of British Columbia offer teaching programs and master's degrees with courses in French. Thanks to online course, long-distance students can continue to perfect their French while developing their leadership skills. These courses have a long history at universities like Campus Saint-Jean at the University of Alberta.
With more choice, a larger number of candidates will benefit from long-distance professional development opportunities in French. In addition to these programs, senior management who encourage a bilingual presence in the schools are strongly supported. This presence is essential for understanding the needs of and supporting those who have taken up the cause of immersion issues in a minority context.
In schools all across Canada, it is also essential to offer extracurricular activities in French, to organize assemblies in French and to interact professionally in French in front of students, in front of their parents, and to speak French in the community.
This is not about condemning the English language in our schools. Rather, it is about offering a public space to young bilingual Canadians in order to encourage linguistic duality in our country. In this context, developing an inclusive culture in both streams is essential for ensuring that immersion can really be immersive with a bilingual school staff.
We offer students registered in immersion an increasing number of remedial services. These services are also needed to make immersion more inclusive. Learning in French should be perceived as a right and not just as a choice or an option for students who want an enriched experience.
This right is an essential component of the bilingual or plurilingual identity-building of our students. Along with the essential services designed to give the right to learn French, many students have the option of building up their intercultural identity. Immersion should be accessible to everyone.
In the past, some people saw immersion as an elite program. We are trying to change that mindset and talk more about inclusion. It is an important change in the perception of the immersion program as well as the perception of bilingualism in Canada. With this transition, school boards in Canada, in addition to our partners, are constantly seeking ways to better meet the needs of all learners.
What are the issues? French immersion outside of Quebec exists in a minority context. There is sometimes a feeling of competition between programs to get enrolments, and the overall culture of the school must be taken into consideration. However, to increase the linguistic confidence of our teachers, who have a direct impact on the learning of students, it would be desirable to continue encouraging the presence of French among members of the administration.
Should variances in the French levels of teachers be examined, or should the subject remain taboo in order to respect the autonomy of teachers? We must continue to favour a model that fosters interest among our teachers so that they can continue to explore their own sociolinguistic identity.
School principals are often the gateways to schools. They conduct outreach with the community, teachers and parents, and they are the ones who make important decisions.
How can we properly equip the administrators of immersion programs? By considering the graduates of French immersion. How do we build upon the leadership skills of these young bilingual teachers in order to encourage them? By collaborating with experts working in the anglophone context. We need to continue to do networking, carry out discussions and keep abreast of recent research and immersion trends. Above all, teachers must continue to develop their pedagogical and language skills. This is a field that is in constant evolution.
Our organization offers forums for administrators. This spring, these forums, with the support of Canadian Heritage, will be held in Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa. According to the vice-president of the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers, Marline Al Koura, these forums underscore the importance of training anglophone administrators about immersion-related issues, and they open the doors of our programs so that we can properly welcome troubled youth.
How do we measure the success of immersion programs? Is there obvious inclusion in our schools in order to promote sociolinguistic diversity and encourage students of all levels, using their skills and their personal histories, to develop their own bilingual identity? Are teachers involved in action research by sharing their successes and by working on their own investigation projects in order to develop their sociolinguistic identity?
I hope that immersion programs will continue to grow for the good of our students and to encourage a strongly bilingual intercultural and inclusive national pride. Thank you.
The Chair: I would first of all like to say just how proud I am to see the professional and competent young teacher and administrator that you have become, Christey. I think that your presence here today is a testament to the success of the immersion program.
You are a graduate of an immersion program, a graduate of an immersion teacher training program, an immersion teacher, and now, a vice-principal. Well done!
Ms. Hughes: Thank you very much.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Ms. Hughes, welcome. Now that I know that you are a close friend of our chair, it an even greater pleasure to welcome you here. I will ask a question that may perhaps seem a bit unique.
Many parents believe in the numerous advantages of mastering both official languages. One teacher recently told me that there are sometimes situations when rather than enrolling the children in an immersion program, parents choose rather to send them to a school that operates in their second language, and they do so from primary school on.
They do this so that their children can be completely exposed to another language and so that they will become perfectly bilingual, even though, at home, they continue to speak their mother tongue. Parents have the right to do this because that right is protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. You are a teacher. Is this a trend that you have heard about? Because teachers face additional challenges in teaching anglophone and francophone students in the same classroom and they must focus their attention on students who are in a classroom to learn a second language. Do you agree? Do you believe that this could have an impact on the training and development of other students in the same classroom?
Ms. Hughes: Differentiation is reality in classrooms all across the country. It is related to differences in linguistic abilities, and it is really a gift, it is something special when we have members of the classroom who are at different levels on the language learning continuum. All of the time spent with other members of the class is part of a community learning, and it is the teacher's job to be able to meet the needs of all students in the classroom. With the evolving curriculum in British Columbia, emphasis is placed on the investigation process where the student seeks out innate inspiration for his or her learning, where he or she has the opportunity to pursue their dreams, regardless of their level of language and other difficulties or gifts. Therefore, I think there is a place for everyone in the immersion system, regardless of their level of language.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you. The teacher who mentioned this situation to me seemed to be experiencing some difficulties. She found it very difficult to juggle students who were in the classroom to learn French and who were young anglophone students, and the task of teaching both groups at the same time. She thought that she was forced to spend too much of her attention on the anglophone student who was in the classroom to learn French.
Ms. Hughes: In my opinion, the situation is similar to that of reading levels. In any class, francophone, immersion, or anglophone, there are different levels of reading skills and learning difficulties. It is exactly the same situation. My answer to this teacher is that it is simply our job.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I have a question for Ms. Melanson. Your presentation was very interesting. Your department's policy on guiding school boards, school administrations and teachers with regard to offering a French second-language program, developed in 1998, is being revised. Could you tell us more about this revision and the parts of this policy that you plan to modify or improve?
[English]
Ms. Melanson: We have done quite a number of revisions in the policy to bring it up to date. Obviously our teaching situation is certainly different now than it was in 1998 when that policy was put out.
One of the realities that we're bringing into play is the fact that we have different programs now than we did in 1998. We're trying to address the parameters for intensive French and for the integrated French program. Those are some of the main policies we're trying to adjust.
I'll take you back to what my colleague just said about putting the point on inclusion, differentiation and tying our French second-language policy as well into student services policies and trying to get away from some of the perception of the elitism, making sure that French is the language of communication within the classroom, not just that it should be but it must be. It's always been there, but it's been more of a guideline, I think, than we'd like it to be. We're trying to put those parameters around what our programs look like individually. Some of them are not defined very clearly because they just didn't exist back when the policy was put in place.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: You mentioned that French is taught from Grade 2 to Grade 12. You also mentioned that many people dropped out after ninth grade. If the student does drop out in ninth grade, will his or her level of bilingualism be sufficient for a job that requires knowledge of both official languages? I expect that someone who has studied for 12 years and who is in twelfth grade is significantly better. That having been said, will the one with nine years of learning have the necessary skills to work in such a position?
[English]
Ms. Melanson: I think it would depend on what program they were coming out of.
Just as a bit of a correction, in our program, early French immersion starts in the primary level. The Grade 2 to 12 is my reference to the levels that I've taught at. We start our early immersion in grade primary. We have a late immersion that starts in Grade 7. In one school board we have a middle immersion that starts in Grade 4, and that's something they've chosen to do instead, and our core French starts in Grade 4 as well.
What program the student is coming out of will determine their level of bilingualism and their ability to function in French as a second language. If you're talking about a core French student who leaves the program at the end of Grade 9, our data shows that where they have been using very traditional methods of studying grammar, very discrete parts of the language, the ability to communicate really is not there. When they leave at the end of Grade 9, what they have learned, if they're not maintaining it, is essentially gone.
The immersion students come out, and we offer DELF testing at the end of Grade 12 to students who continue in the program. We are showing that most of our immersion students are coming out at the B1-B2 level in that testing. That gives students an international recognition, and we know that they are definitely able to hold a number of different jobs in the workplace, and a lot of them go on, actually, to do that.
I was interested in Ms. Hughes's reference that a lot of our immersion students end up coming back and becoming immersion or French second-language teachers.
We don't test our students once they've completed at the end of Grade 9. Our testing comes through DELF, which is not offered to everybody. It's a choice for them to take it if they wish to have that recognition, and that happens at the end of Grade 12. So I really can't speak to what level they come out at at Grade 9, but certainly second-language learning is like any other skill — if you don't use it, you lose it, essentially. So there is definitely loss.
[Translation]
Senator Poirier: My first question is for Ms. Melanson. Welcome.
[English]
In your presentation you mentioned that core French begins in Grade 4 and is mandatory for all students until the end of Grade 9. Then it becomes an option if they want to continue up until Grade 12. You also mentioned that 38 per cent of eligible students continue their studies in core French, which is a low number compared to what could continue. Then you just mentioned a few minutes ago also that a lot of the students who don't take it after their Grade 9 lose the language; it's gone.
My question is not only for Nova Scotia, so please don't take it that I'm thinking of just Nova Scotia, but I'm just wondering. I assume that probably most provinces and most people who are teaching French up to Grade 9 are in the same situation that you are, where some of the students who don't continue kind of lose it.
Have you ever looked at the possibility of saying we're not going to stop it in Grade 9? If they're losing it, they're not continuing, are we teaching this for no reason if they're losing it that fast? Should we maybe not look at the option of saying it has to be mandatory up until Grade 12?
Ms. Melanson: I know that in Nova Scotia there had been talk several years ago to have it mandatory to the end of Grade 10 for core French. I can't speak to the reasons why that didn't happen. I wasn't in my current position at the time.
I think that in the Nova Scotia context, and in our context, we're looking at a lot of the other priorities that are pulling kids in high school in terms of the number of mandatory credits that they have to take and the number of optional credits that they have to take. That's why I said that when students don't choose to continue, sometimes it's not because they don't want to; it's just because their timetable doesn't permit it.
Would it be wonderful to have French mandatory until the end of Grade 12? Yes, it would, but I'm speaking as a personal opinion for that. I'm obviously an advocate of that learning. I believe there are a number of reasons across all jurisdictions in Canada as to why French second-language learning is not mandatory. Sometimes I think they are economic, lack of personnel, population and demand. Sometimes it's the public perception of what it means and the importance of learning French as a second language. Sometimes there are political reasons that play a role as to why it is not offered to the end of Grade 12.
Again, I would love to see that happen, but I think each jurisdiction is different. Just as in Nova Scotia we have a mandatory program, I realize that across different parts of the country, core French is not mandatory at all, as I know this committee has probably heard. It would be wonderful if we could do that, if there was the sense of passion for bilingualism and the outlook and perception of the public that it was necessary.
I think in a lot of regions where there's a predominantly anglophone population, perhaps it's not seen so much as a necessity to have that aspect of bilingualism. But I will say the Government of Nova Scotia has a workplace skills strategy that has come out that we are tying some of our new initiatives into. And our action plan that our minister sets out very clearly, which I'm very pleased with, definitely has shown that the language and culture of French as a second language and as a first language is an essential part of the workforce skill. That's why those initiatives I mentioned in the action plan are designed to encourage kids to continue, to have them learn with the view to say it's not just about what am I learning this for, maybe I'm not going to use it, but to specifically target and promote the ties to the workplace skills in terms of being bilingual.
That's one of the projects that we'll be working on with French second language this year.
Senator Poirier: Last week we had the ambassador for Switzerland here, and he was explaining to us how in their country — and it was interesting to listen to him — exactly how a child that starts school has their maternal language they are born with, and then in Grade 3 they're introduced to a second language, and in Grade 5 they're introduced to a third language. They follow that all the way to Grade 12 because of the importance of the advantages that those languages will give them in the workforce and in their life as they go forward.
We're seeing that a lot; I wasn't picking on Nova Scotia. I don't want you to think that. That problem exists throughout a lot of the provinces where we learned a little bit of French, and unfortunately, because it becomes an option and we don't have to continue, some choose not to continue. I find it's sad because then they kind of lose what they've learned so far, and it could be to their advantage as they grow up.
I want to thank you for your comments. I really appreciate it.
Ms. Melanson: I agree. Thank you.
Senator Poirier: Good. My second question is for Ms. Hughes.
The Chair: Would you like to add to that question, Ms. Hughes?
[Translation]
Ms. Hughes: As my colleague just said, basic French is competing with all the other classes that are of interest to students in our establishment. We therefore have to market the program, both for students and in order to recruit skillful teachers.
In Kamloops, we are very proud of the low dropout rate in our immersion program. This reflects our teachers' very high level of skill. However, from seventh grade to twelfth grade, even in immersion, we do not have a zero per cent dropout rate. This is a challenge, and we are always searching for ways to improve our results that are relatively high.
For basic French, this becomes a problem after ninth grade. Between fifth grade and ninth grade, the subject is mandatory, after which French must compete with Japanese, German, and other choices.
Whereas it is important for us to promote a strong bilingualism, it is also important to respect students' wishes so that they can pursue their dreams and establish their sociolinguistic and sociocultural identity.
It was with great interest that I followed the appearance of the Swiss ambassador. In Canada, there are also differences from one region to the next. They are not the same as the ones that he mentioned. However, this is part of the issue.
Senator Poirier: It would be interesting to find a way to raise awareness about the importance of Canada's two official languages and about the advantages that come from speaking both official languages. If we manage to sell this idea, perhaps one day we will see new and different results.
Do you find it difficult to make parents understand how important it is to register their child in a French immersion school? Have you seen an increase or a decrease in the number of parents who seek to register their child in an immersion school?
Ms. Hughes: It is very popular in our region; there are sometimes waiting lists in certain school boards. We do our best to accommodate everyone, and we are currently able to do so fairly well. Despite the overall decline in kindergarten enrolment, enrolment in immersion continues to grow. Once again, we are very proud of our marketing plan, but at the end of the day, marketing is more about word of mouth among parents. When they hear students speaking French in the schoolyard, parents are very proud; they see it as a financial commodity that will open more doors for their children. We have no problem convincing parents to enroll their children in immersion.
Senator Poirier: Does registering their child in an immersion school help the parents themselves learn a second language with their child?
Ms. Hughes: Absolutely, because we give reading homework for home and, very often, children love reading to their parents. Parents try to study the vocabulary to be able to give little tests to their children. Teachers are giving less homework but more discovery projects, and parents are really interested in everything relating to their child's identity.
[English]
Senator Charette-Poulin: Ms. Melanson, it was interesting to hear you speak and describe the interchange that certain of your students had with other Atlantic provinces, and how much the students seem to appreciate it.
We had a witness a few days ago who told us that although he was brought up in English and went to English schools, it is because of such an experience that he chose the French language and the French culture as his priority.
Do you find that there are reasonable and sufficient programs of exchanges in Canada, Ms. Melanson?
Ms. Melanson: We participate in the Explore program, and we also have a Nova Scotia-Quebec exchange program. I believe that Quebec has several agreements with different provinces where we send high school students.
I think there's a great opportunity for students to take part in it. We have Explore; I know there's Odyssey, and there are also private companies that offer that type of exchange within the country. It's probably getting more students interested in understanding what a wonderful opportunity it is to take part in these exchanges.
We do a lot of promotion. My colleague mentioned promotion, and the honourable senator who spoke previously mentioned promotion as well. A big part of it is getting out and saying to students, "Look at the opportunity, look what this will give you," and not just, "Well, you'll get a good job in five years' time." We are really promoting them.
I don't think it's necessarily just the number of programs out there but the promotion of them. We do what we can, but there is a lot of competition for students' time and interests. There's a lot happening in school systems whereby they have opportunities in how to do coding, which is another whole language they're learning. We really need to do a better job of promoting not just the advantages of bilingualism but beyond, what it really means to have the ability to communicate with other people in two languages.
The project that I mentioned earlier, which is sort of a mini exchange that we did with the Acadian community, having contact with Acadian students who really wanted to learn about their own culture and our French second- language students, the difference that it made for students in their lives was to say, "I now see how French lives, how it's a living thing," and what it meant for them to have communication with the entire Acadian community, with kids and seniors in the community. That's the type of program that really goes a long way to enriching and promoting students outside of regular exchange programs.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Thank you, Ms. Melanson. Ms. Hughes, did you want to add something to that?
[Translation]
Ms. Hughes: Social media currently play an important role in promotion and involvement. There are many things that we as professionals can do. For example, we can create our own networks and seek out the expertise of others. And the same is also true for students who wish to interact authentically with others. Nowadays, it is so easy to create opportunities for authentic interactions with people who are speaking their mother tongue. The Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers and its partners, such as Le français pour l'avenir and a number of others, are very active in social media, such as Twitter and Facebook, in order to continuously promote contests and opportunities for sharing a second language while creating ties with others.
[English]
Senator Charette-Poulin: Ms. Melanson, you work with the Department of Education in Nova Scotia. Are there regular meetings between the provincial ministers of education regarding the learning of a second official language and all the provinces and territories?
Ms. Melanson: I am really not at the level of senior management, so I would hesitate to speak to that. I know that the CMEC brings together directors of French second-language from across the country, those people who work within ministries and departments, to discuss projects, by phone conference and in person, to discuss what's going on in second-language learning. Outside of that, I am really not in a position to give you an accurate answer on that.
[Translation]
Ms. Hughes: I cannot answer on behalf of ministries of education. We are currently undergoing a curriculum transformation in British Columbia. There have been many pedagogical discussions about the best second-language practices. We have long been participants in a number of discussions about the CECR and especially the DELF, which my colleague just described, to see how we can expand our second language, French immersion, core French and other language programs. We also have a number of associations comprising teachers, professors, administrators, and coordinators, such as the British Columbia Language Coordination Association and the APPIPC. These two organizations often work with national associations to ensure that we are kept abreast of what is going on in the entire country and to transmit news to our teachers. They also help share the task of applying for funding from ministries, as appropriate.
[English]
Senator McIntyre: Ms. Melanson, thank you for your presentation. My question is a follow-up to one raised by Senator Fortin-Duplessis. It has to do with the program policy developed by your department in 1998, the aim of which was to regulate French second-language programs. Are we to understand that the program policy is currently not under review?
Ms. Melanson: Oh, no, it is under review. We are going through an educational review across Nova Scotia, and that was the minister's action plan that I mentioned earlier. An integral part of that is policy review and policy updating. We actually have been in that process for a bit of time now.
The action plan of the minister gives us a bit more precise direction on that and has a goal of making sure that policies are interconnected and that they're consistent with each other. We are definitely reviewing all those policies, and French second-language is part of that.
Senator McIntyre: Okay. Thank you.
[Translation]
Ms. Hughes, you created a wiki in order to allow for the sharing of resources among immersion teachers. Can you tell us about this wiki, which is a web application?
Ms. Hughes: I am very impressed you know about this. That's great.
Senator McIntyre: I've done my research.
Ms. Hughes: The Internet is magical. It all started when I came to the Teachers Institute on Canadian Parliamentary Democracy for the first time, here in Ottawa, in 2012. I met a colleague who was also from another region. We started wondering how we could maintain the relationships that we had made during that experience. She told me about what she was doing on Twitter. We decided to create the hashtag#FRIMM together. It was her idea.
There are many great conversations online, in 140 characters or less, that are connected online to other blogs and other websites that seek to facilitate learning education in immersion and elsewhere. Therefore, we decided that we needed to put all that information together somewhere so that it could be consulted later and shared with others.
I no longer work on the wiki, but I have moved toward other social networks that I use regularly by means of Twitter and Facebook.
Senator Chaput: Ms. Melanson, it is important that your success story be shared with stakeholders across Canada, with associations, professors, parents, and others, because they can learn from what is being done in the country.
Ms. Hughes, I would like to say that, if I were Senator Tardif, I would be proud of your presentation today because, after years of hard work, she is seeing the fruit of her labour, as we say back home. I wanted to say that if I were in her place, I would be very proud. Thank you, and keep up the good work.
Ms. Hughes: I had very good mentors. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much, senator Chaput. Thank you also to our two witnesses. Ms. Melanson, would you like to add anything?
[English]
Ms. Melanson: Yes, please. I appreciate very much the work that you're doing to help us to focus as a country on bilingualism, on French second-language learning. I've been looking at the variety, the cross-section of witnesses who have appeared before this committee. It's fascinating that so many viewpoints, so many perspectives come from all across this country, yet we're all united in one goal. Being a part of this and being a part of French second-language learning has been a lifelong passion for me, and I think the promotion of it is a huge part.
Ms. Hughes, I'm really pleased to hear about your wiki. I use social media as well. Ours are called Moodles in Nova Scotia because they're private for our teachers and students.
I think there is so much we can do to promote. It's really a matter of opening students' eyes, opening parents' eyes, opening the public's eyes to understand how important it is to be bilingual in this country so that we can really have a sense of our Canadian identity.
Thank you again for the opportunity this evening.
[Translation]
Ms. Hughes: To continue to support immersion administrators, in addition to the anglophone, francophiles and francophones who work in second-language programs, the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers is proud to offer forums for administrators. These forums will be held in April in Winnipeg with Mr. Roy Lyster, in Ottawa with Ms. Katy Arnett and in Edmonton with Mr. Fred Genesee. The objective of these meetings is to continue to offer networks to administrators in order to encourage their own professional development.
I am thrilled to be here. This is an extraordinary professional development opportunity. Thank you so much for your invitation to appear before this committee. Through our social media, I had been able to learn what you are doing across the country.
The Chair: The committee has succeeded in giving the example of professional development involving two teachers, one from British Columbia and the other from Nova Scotia. This is also a new experience for the Official Languages Committee. We know that teachers are the foundation of the learner's success. Well done!
[English]
Thank you for your commitment.
[Translation]
Thank you for sharing your expertise and your experience with the members of the committee.
(The committee adjourned.)