Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries and Oceans
Issue No. 30 - Evidence - May 3, 2018
OTTAWA, Thursday, May 3, 2018
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day at 8:34 a.m. to study Maritime Search and Rescue activities, including current challenges and opportunities; and, in camera, for the consideration of a draft agenda (future business).
Senator Fabian Manning (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning. My name is Fabian Manning. I’m a senator from Newfoundland and Labrador and I am pleased to chair this morning’s meeting and the committee as a whole.
Before I give the floor to our witness, I would ask senators to introduce themselves.
[Translation]
Senator Ringuette: Pierrette Ringuette from New Brunswick.
[English]
Senator Gold: Marc Gold, Quebec.
Senator Munson: Jim Munson, Ontario.
Senator Raine: Nancy Greene Raine, British Columbia.
Senator Coyle: Mary Coyle, Nova Scotia.
Senator Hartling: Nancy Hartling, New Brunswick.
The Chair: Senators, I won’t be here next week, as most of you know. This will be my last meeting in the chair with Senator Greene Raine, because she will be retiring before I get back. I would like to thank her for her service to this committee, the Senate of Canada and to all Canadians. She has been a wonderful lady to work with over the years. I will miss you, and I’m sure others will, too.
Senator Raine: Thank you very much. I have enjoyed working with you all.
The Chair: With that, the committee is continuing its study on maritime search and rescue activities, including its current challenges and opportunities. This morning, we are pleased to welcome Glenn Priestley, Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association.
Mr. Priestley was one of the witnesses we hoped to hear when we travelled to the North at the end of May, but he’s stationed here in Ottawa with great knowledge of the North, from what I understand, so we’re pleased to be able to hear from him in Ottawa on the concerns of search and rescue. On behalf of the members of the committee, thank you for being here with us this morning. I understand you have opening remarks and after those, I’m sure the senators will have questions for you.
Glenn Priestley, Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. On behalf of the Northern Air Transport Association, I’d like to start by thanking the committee for the opportunity to provide a northern aviation perspective on this important discussion on maritime search and rescue.
The Northern Air Transport Association’s membership is representative of all aspects of northern and remote air operations, including 705-704 scheduled passenger service, mainline cargo carriers, 703 air carriers, helicopters and specialized operations, including internationally renowned medevac capabilities.
Our operators are committed to the highest possible standards and cooperate with all government agencies to provide northern and remote communities with essential services.
NATA was formed over 40 years ago to assist in the development of Northern Canada by promoting industry best practices in providing safe and reliable air transportation. Northern operators have had to find solutions to operational problems that simply do not exist in the south. Northern operators have international experience and a reputation for safe operations in the harshest of environments.
Referring to the attached route map and airport plot map provided with the written brief to the committee, northern operators’ experience with long-range flight planning with limited information and support has developed the industry knowledge and skill sets required because of a need for greater contingency planning to ensure mission and society system safety.
This expertise causes an opportunity for the further development of the network of response capabilities. NATA would like to highlight what we believe could be useful to a Northern search and rescue strategy.
I think I’m here today because of two previous presentations and meetings I had, first, with Senator Patterson’s round table in Iqaluit in 2016; and, second, in Yellowknife we had a northern Canadian defence symposium that NATA was asked to address. Again, we ask the question: Can we assist with the cataloguing of potential civilian SAR assets that could be accessed on a needed basis? This inventory could include aircraft, personnel and ground support, such as maintenance, fuel and accommodation.
The second thing I would like to present to the committee is an ongoing challenge for northern operators in attracting and retaining employees with relevant skills, as well as in other groups, where there is a challenge to maintain skills competencies that have been attained.
Perhaps there could be an identification of training programs that could be developed to cross-train individuals presently employed by air carriers in the North for search and rescue operations.
In previous submissions, this challenge has been discussed with solutions such as short-term internships and secondments, and NATA members would be interested in further discussions on how to develop this into a strategy.
Are there present SAR personnel organizations where a close relationship with air operators could be mutually beneficial? Last week in Whitehorse, at NATA 42, the Northern and Remote Aviation Conference, we asked how we could involve CASARA more, and we had a presentation from the Air Cadets about how we could involve that dedicated group of youths.
Finally, the Office of the Auditor General report on northern Canada infrastructure in June 2017, at which NATA made several presentations. They identified that, of 117 airports, only 10 have a hard surface. This is a concern for long-range search and rescue. You can appreciate they need long runways. There aren’t that many.
We put a resolution out started in 2014, renewed in 2018, to see if we can come up with an alternate runway surface. We have a test project under way. One of the diagrams I’ve provided with the written brief was the original stakeholders. That’s grown substantially. Now we’re looking at whether we can have portable, remote runways made of aluminum. Can we strengthen the gravel with certain substances? One is called EK37, developed by an outfit called Midwest Industrial Supply. Can we lengthen and strengthen our runways with existing finances and applying new technology?
A review of the attached landmass and route structure map I provided identifies the challenges facing SAR operations in Northern and remote Canada. It’s a long way from everywhere to go anywhere in the North. NATA members have always been involved in local SARs; it’s a traditional service provided. My first flight I can remember in 1972, I was involved in a SAR off Lake Erie for an overturned 14-foot aluminum.
Airplanes and all forms of SAR — land, sea and air — have been important.
Let me ask a question as a conclusion: Can we perhaps utilize and identify the assets across the North to be better inventoried to enhance response times in crises? Time is of the essence when something goes wrong, like a boat flipping over; it’s a matter of minutes, and no more than hours. NATA was formed to help in the economic development of the North, including the daily essential service we provide to all stakeholders living in Canada’s northern and remote regions. We are proud of our role to improve the lives of all Canadians, and today we want to offer our support for any northern search and rescue program.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Priestley. We will go to our first questioner.
Senator Gold: Thank you and welcome, Mr. Priestley. The challenges are enormous. We’re only starting to learn of them. You’ve had a lot of experience with this.
We know, as you said, the distances are enormous and the infrastructure is inadequate. Can you talk a little bit more about what priorities should we consider for the improvement of the infrastructure so that passenger flights and cargo carriers can land in more remote areas and assist in search and rescue?
Mr. Priestley: Those aircraft are going to continue with the main runways that are paved.
I’m thinking two things. First of all, for instance Kenn Borek Air operates a route system throughout the Baffin and Ellesmere Island to the North. Traditionally we have fuel caches. Do we know where they are? When we have an emergency or a problem involving search and rescue, whether it be a fishing boat that gets into trouble or all the various scenarios — we can escalate all the way up to cruise ships. “What is the closest asset to the problem?” is always the first question.
There has been a lot of work done on that, but if there’s any way that we, as an organization, can help more — that’s what my board asked me to come and pass on today when I polled them. If you look at our board on our website, I’m proud; we have some of the greatest northern fliers in the world. We have people who are in the hall of fame for work they’ve done in Antarctica, Kenn Borek Air, for instance, and the rescue down to Antarctica is legendary.
But do we know where they’re located? Can we keep some type of a plot map? Kenn Borek, for instance, has approximately 23 Twin Otters in the North. Do we know if the SAR people can access those on any given day? This is a small example of what I’m talking about.
Last week, we were talking at NATA 42 in Whitehorse. We would encourage and want that conference to be used to meet on an annual basis to talk about search and rescue operations in the North. It’s vital to us. It’s something we’re involved in all the time. But again I ask the question: Do we have a proper inventory of the various resources — hangars — when we get into a situation? Do we know where we can put an aircraft, not just on a runway, but can we put one into a hangar — where are the hangars? That’s what we thought might be useful.
Senator Gold: That certainly would be useful. A mapping of the inventory made accessible to your members would be the first step.
Beyond that, if you had a wishlist for the improvement of infrastructure in the North, what would it be?
Mr. Priestley: If you look at the plot map of the 117 airports, you’ll notice in Northern Manitoba and Ontario, there are quite a few spots of airports. Of those, 44 per cent of them do not meet the standards of southern Canadian airports. That’s in the Office of the Auditor General’s report.
The key thing we need is GPS approaches. If we had more GPS approaches, it would be better. Access to the airport is really the most important thing, as is having good approaches to get into the airport.
I don’t want a wishlist of greater, longer runways. That’s a lovely thing to ask for. But first of all, make sure we have good approaches. Right now, only half the airports have adequate approach lighting. If we can get the lighting and navigation improved, we will have better reliability of getting to the problem, whatever the problem is.
We do 33,000 medevacs in the North per year. It’s a big challenge when you go a long way with inclement weather to an airport with inadequate navigation and aren’t able to get in. It’s time-consuming. It deteriorates the system and safety of society.
Senator Gold: Do you know where we would get information about the costs of improving the GPS resources or assets? Is that information available — the order of magnitude?
Mr. Priestley: We work closely with NAV Canada and Transport Canada. They’re our partners in the development. One’s the regulator; the other’s the service provider. Our relationships are good, and they’re doing some good work in moving forward. It’s just that the technology is advancing so quickly, to put that technology into the airports. But I would suggest that’s my number one wish.
Senator Gold: Can you provide the committee with some information about the overall costs? Were we to improve the GPS assets in those areas, do you have an idea what it would cost?
Mr. Priestley: I can find that out and report back to the committee.
Senator Gold: That would be helpful.
Mr. Priestley: I can do that.
Senator Coyle: Thank you very much for this excellent presentation and for your written submission.
I wanted to confirm something and then ask a couple of questions. What I’m understanding from this important presentation on the Northern Air Transport Association, Mr. Priestley, is that your association is really an incredible set of assets: airlines, airplanes, helicopters, crews and infrastructure throughout the North and all knowledgeable in the North. You also have this medevac capacity you described, which is an asset already engaged in northern search and rescue, but one which could be deployed in a much better way if, for instance, as you suggest, a really good, solid, comprehensive inventory of the assets and resources were done immediately and then kept up-to-date.
The personnel, I think I heard you mention — there’s an issue with availability as well as training, so there’s a point there. Then, as my colleague has mentioned, there are the issues of infrastructure, both the runways themselves and the landing pads for the helicopters.
I have many questions, but I will limit it to two right now. First, would you see the Northern Air Transport Association conducting the inventory and maintaining an up-to-date inventory in the way you have described? If so, how would that happen? What would be required to make that happen?
And then my second question is around the relationship or connection — or lack thereof — between your association and the coordination of marine search and rescue in the North by the other major players, such as the Coast Guard, et cetera.
Mr. Priestley: Thank you very much for that question. I see NATA in that role, because there are 39 members of NATA, and that represents virtually 100 per cent of the northern operators.
When you think about the North — and you can talk about the size. We know it’s 40 per cent of Canada but has the population of Kingston. Those are statistics we know. But it’s hard to understand the actual assets in the North. On any given day, there are probably about 200 aircraft. We’re not talking about thousands.
When we talk about the gravel-equipped aircraft, whether Canadian North, Nolinor, Air North, Air Inuit, these are 737s that can land on gravel. There are maybe a dozen of them — 12 to 14 of them — on any given day.
But there are a whole bunch of other aircraft. Summit Air has ATR 42s that do refuelling. Vital information to know about the refuelling pad they go to up in the Bathurst marine base, that would be important to know. How we have the technology to get the fuel there, if indeed we need the refuelling if we are involved in a search and rescue of some significance. The contingency planning changes whether it’s an upside down 14-foot aluminum or something much worse. We have to understand what we have to apply.
I don’t know much about the North, I’m a student, but I have flown all the airports in what they call the Quebec Arctic. As you know, there are four basic northern areas of Canada. There’s Air Inuit and then there’s Johnny May. He’s a well-known pilot who operates a beaver service at the top of Ungava Bay. He’s very well-known and has been involved in many search and rescue operations over the years. That’s the type of asset we can continue to relate to whoever the search and rescue person is. I would love to have the opportunity to connect with a search and rescue coordinator to provide that asset inventory.
Senator Coyle: My first question was who would conduct that inventory.
Mr. Priestley: We can. NATA would happily do it because we know the members.
Senator Coyle: Would you need resources to do that?
Mr. Priestley: No. I come to a lot of committees here. That’s my job. To this one I’m not coming with my hand out — it’s with my hand up, asking how we can help. It would be easy for us to do, to ask the question of our membership and then provide that information. Our members would be happy to provide that.
Senator Coyle: Do you have a current relationship with the Coast Guard, for example?
Mr. Priestley: Not to the degree we should. I think that would be helpful.
Senator Raine: Following up on this thought, nowadays it’s pretty easy to maintain a database electronically and have it be shared by more than one player. Obviously you would want that shared with the search and rescue coordination centres so it would be real time; this plane is over there, that plane went up there, and they’re taking fuel from here to there next Tuesday. That is kind of a no-brainer.
Mr. Priestley: It it. The schedule on a bigger piece of equipment, yes — you can get that on your home computer now. But there is an awful lot of smaller, ad hoc work taking place with helicopters, the traditional Beaver-type aircraft, equipment that would be worthwhile to identify.
For instance, in Northern British Columbia last week the BC Floatplane Association asked to join NATA. They have 30 commercial members. Those are important assets to know the location of. Even if it’s nothing more than a contact name and phone number, that would be useful.
Senator Raine: So this database, working together with the Coast Guard so you know what information is important to have on hand and updated, you would know who’s responsible for updating it in the database as well?
Mr. Priestley: I think it would be useful.
Senator Raine: I think it would be a good thing for this study to recommend.
When you say that GPS approaches to the smaller airports are needed, what exactly is a GPS approach? If you could explain that.
Mr. Priestley: GPS 101 is a satellite-based technology run by NAV Canada. You get approval from Transport Canada and that takes time because the airport has to meet certain criteria. An approach is designed that brings the plane to a longitudinal approach to the airport centre line and there are markers that allow it to give reference to the ground. It’s a device that replaces what you would remember in the old days, instrument landing systems, which were ground-based VHF. This is now satellite-based. It’s a question of the equipment on the airplane being recognized by the equipment in the satellite and being approved for that airport. That just takes a process to be built.
Senator Raine: It’s really just a process of putting the data into their system, but you said 40 per cent of the airstrips don’t meet the southern standards.
Mr. Priestley: That’s right.
Senator Raine: Then NAV Canada might say we can’t put a system there. It’s not helpful.
Mr. Priestley: For certain airports that is a problem. Terrain clearance is always an issue with approaches. Before the approach can be approved it has to be flown by a test aircraft, and again some of these airports are a long way away. It’s a question of priority for these 117 airports.
Last week we met with all of the territorial governments to ask that question: What is the priority list to bring the airports up to snuff? Our priority is the ability to get to the airport with good lighting and good navigational approaches.
Senator Raine: Thank you.
Senator Ringuette: You indicated that you do, on a yearly average, 32,000 medevacs?
Mr. Priestley: Thirty-three thousand in the report we got from Aboriginal Business Magazine.
Senator Ringuette: That’s absolutely amazing.
Mr. Priestley: It is, isn’t it?
Senator Ringuette: I certainly want to thank you for what you’re doing.
We have discussed a database. Another major issue, which you highlighted as one of your first recommendations, is training in order to be ready to help as a volunteer group. We’ve heard the same thing from the different communities where it seems as if the number one issue is training for everyone so that there can be a concerted effort.
Who would you like to provide the training that you find your association members require?
Mr. Priestley: When I was in Transport Canada in the 1980s and 1990s, there was an organization called the Civil Aviation Search and Rescue Association. I don’t know if they exist anymore, but my President asked me, what happened to CASARA? That was a local organization that was well-formed and it was well funded. I remember when I was with Transport Canada they used to provide training in conjunction with the Coast Guard and DND. They were the holder of the office. I thought it was a great organization. I don’t know what happened to it. I think that the idea of a community-based organization knowing its assets is easy to do. Most communities now have some form of an emergency measures or EMO coordinator. Again, I’m really pleased to be here just to be able to say, this is me and if I can help you with knowing about aviation assets, I’m happy to do so.
You talk about the medevacs across the North. Most of those are private contracts and the standard is amazing. I used to be a medevac pilot — not the way it is now. They now use very sophisticated aircraft. We have 24/7 nursing stations in Resolute, Rankin and Iqaluit, but do we know that? Each contract is different with each territorial government. Is that not good information to know, that we have a really well-functioning nursing station?
Senator Ringuette: Yes, exactly. My other question is purely technical.
You indicated aluminum for runways. How would that operate in those kinds of drastic temperatures?
Mr. Priestley: I know. When I first heard about it, I thought of a cookie tray. It’s an amazing substance and it comes from the Second World War. It’s very expensive, but we used it. The desire is something other than asphalt because asphalt presents problems, just getting the material up to where we need it, it’s heavy for shipping and we need it every five years. It’s cheap to put down but costly to maintain. The other problem is that it is black and that causes a problem in the North. Again, I don’t profess to be an expert on the North. I am really a student. I wish I had found out about this job 25 years ago. It is fascinating up there.
Climate change is real and the change to the permafrost and the effect on the runways is something else.
Is this a technology now reaching a point that is useful? We have made great strides on this material. The project chair is Robert Kendall, who has done a remarkable job. These are panels about half the size of these desks and they click together like Lego to make the runway. It is used in places like Brazil and Burma to let you lay down over — not a frozen or a semi-frozen area — but a swampy substance for a stabilizer in an emergency situation.
We were asked to look at something because the airplanes today that land on gravel are not certified to do so, and by doing so, they have to take a 15 per cent performance penalty. Only the 737 I told you about that is approved for gravel is approved. The rest of the airplanes take a 15 per cent performance penalty. That is a lot of payload that we are losing. The question asked of us is can we do something? The only substance we found is aluminum. There is no other substance than hard surface.
I bring it to the attention of this committee in the context of this being a technology to be aware of for no other reason than that initiative is taking place. Will it be the opportunity where this could be located some place like Cambridge Bay? And it could be located in a heliport onto a slushy area to stabilize. These are the types of questions I think are worthwhile to a study like this to be raised. That is why I brought it up.
Senator Ringuette: To clarify, are you saying that your organization is currently studying this runway method?
Mr. Priestley: We have resolutions. Our NATA resolution is that we look for alternate solutions to asphalt. Rather than leave that as a wish list, we formed a proper committee. We have gone out and met and have a partnership with the people in Aluminum Valley outside of Alma,Vaughan, Boeing, and we have the University of Toronto and Carleton University on board.
We are at the stage now to test it because it is not the government’s responsibility to do that. It is the responsibility of the government to put regulations in place. Here is what the runway looks like, this is how strong it has to be. You go and test the material. That is what we have been told to do. We are at that phase now with Transport and other organizations to begin a testing project of the material.
Senator Munson: I remember, Mr. Priestley, landing at Davis Inlet a few times and I would always say, in a Twin Otter, “Safe at second, slide into second.” It was pretty cool. I have done a bit of work in that area in a previous life.
We are going to Iqaluit and Kuujjuaq in a couple of weeks, and that is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to the North. But we have been to Europe and have heard some innovative ideas in Norway, Denmark and Ireland about some of the work that goes on in terms of the northern perimeters of dealing with cruise ships.
You talked about the assets that your association has. We know about the military and we are concerned about not how many cruise ships but the new size of cruise ships, ecotourism and the idea of going through the North.
First, are we prepared today, in our air, sea and rescue operations, to handle a catastrophe that takes place? What responsibility do we have as a nation with these private ships that will now ply the northern waters on a regular basis? Are we ready?
Mr. Priestley: That is a rhetorical question for the committee to answer, no doubt. I can’t. My point is: Can I help in the readiness on the route of that cruise ship, whether it is from Pond Inlet to Cambridge Bay and going through the straits there? Do we know what helicopter assets are in that area of the cruise ship? I bet they do. I bet there is a fair amount of risk assessment on the go. I have no doubt there are a lot of people in Canada worried about that, senator.
But that is my concern, too. And can I help by providing a list of where the local asset is when someone gets badly hurt and needs to get picked up off that cruise ship,taken to a land spot and transported to Yellowknife in that Twin Otter? Can we think about that ahead of time? Can I help in providing you with a name and contact number of the people operating in that area?
Senator Munson: On the idea of the private sector filling the void where the military can’t, we have heard testimony and we listened to major groups privately as well about some of the ideas they may have of dealing with the North and replacing government operations. It seems to be working in the U.K. in some respects.
Where is the role? Is there a major role? Can that happen? Can they fill that void with serious assets that would be closer and more mobile?
Mr. Priestley: I take a certain pride in being related in a small way to the development of provincial airlines in St. John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador. I was there when it was called Aztec Aviation and we changed it to AtlanticAirways.
Senator Munson: They are flying everywhere imaginable, and very well.
Mr. Priestley: Provincial airlines are legendary right now and we developed the offshore surveillance for the Hibernia platforms for iceberg patrol. It is a big “we” for me to use that word because I had a small role. Other people did tremendous work.
That offshore surveillance or sovereignty flights — it is the same thing. You turn into a search and rescue flight if there is an overturned boat. They have cutting-edge technology in St. John’s and Vancouver, and I believe that is exportable technology to nine countries. It is a pretty impressive success story out of Newfoundland, and that is all based on replacing what used to be military sovereignty patrols and offshore surveillance which has been picked up by other companies. In this case, we have a successful model to look at.
Is there opportunity for the North to utilize contract private assets? Yes. We have the expertise to do so.
Again, my only concern to this group today was ensuring you are aware of us and if there is something that we can do to help in recognizing where those assets are now. If there is a problem today, do we know what we can get going in Norman Wells?
Senator Hartling: Good morning, Mr. Priestley. Thank you very much. I can see your passion on this topic. Thank you for that.
A lot of us talked about infrastructure and those kinds of things, but I am interested in the human resources aspect. You talked about retaining and attracting employees and probably volunteers, too. Looking at right now and going in the future, how does that happen? What is the ratio of men and women? What kind of skills and attributes would be needed to do those kinds of jobs? Are they coming from away or are they there?
Talk about that. I think that is an important piece to marry with the infrastructure, the people part. Can you talk to us about that?
Mr. Priestley: There are all kinds of organizations in the North. We can stay with the rangers, for one. I think they are a tremendous asset for sovereignty, dedicated men and women across the North, a couple of thousand.
We are desperate in the civilian aviation world for flight crew and for maintenance personnel. It is a real problem. I can go on about it at length, but we need to have a northern training program for northerners for jobs in the North. If there are some people already involved, is there a way we can use them in our operations right now because we have shortages, or are there people right now in our organizations who can be translated to understand, be responsible and coordinators as part of the search and rescue network?
I asked my board of directors and they all came back and said, “Yes, we all do search and rescue but we don’t really have a constant contact. We get a phone call to say that someone has fallen off a roof, someone is lost in the woods, a boat’s overturned,” and so on. But they all said they would love to be part of a network. They are all concerned. That is the way of the North.
The training is vital. I don’t know what the answer is to that, but we are facing shortages. If there is a way we could parlay it together, I would love to do so. We have a Whitehorse training centre run by the air cadets that is underutilized. Can we put six young people in there for a summer program — what we used to call in the CASARA program, the observer program? It used to be called the observer and navigator program. You take a course and learn how to look out a window. It sounds easy, but it isn’t. Search and rescue is not easy to do. It is not just looking out a window. You have to know what you are looking for and how to do it.
We had a meeting last week with the pan-territorial air cadet committee. There are three squadrons in the North and approximately 150 air cadets. How can we keep those air cadets involved is an ongoing challenge?
Senator Hartling: Thank you very much. That is very helpful. We heard before that some people who live there have some ability to help search and rescue but they don’t have the actual “training” credentials. You are saying there could be some transferable skills and they could build on that so we can use the people who live there.
Mr. Priestley: I think so.
Senator Hartling: I think so, too.
Senator Raine: If we are looking at the air cadets, rangers, and so on, these are obviously well-trained people already but, in a sense, they are at the entry level. However, they are a pool that you could train further to move up in the system. Is that being done or is there a blockage there; that is, they have to go to college, or they don’t have high school? Are there things getting in the way in the progression of people where they could start to use their full potential?
Mr. Priestley: Yes, for a variety of reasons — and how do we overcome that?
This might be off topic, but let me whine a bit. About 6 per cent of the flight crew in the world are female. We have to do better than that. How can we do that? About 80 per cent of the air cadets, 200 air cadets, get their flying licence every year. We get paid for it. It is a wonderful program. They get pilot licences, but 80 per cent never fly again. How can we parlay that into people and stream them better? I have lots of conversations but we don’t seem to be able to do it. There could be an opportunity if we can work together. That is what I would like to suggest. There are two or three groups already in the North.
By the way, I believe you are going to Iqaluit for your meeting at the end of the month. My director of Iqaluit, who is involved in medevac operations, apologizes. He cannot go there. He is going in for an operation. That is why I am here today to do this. We were hoping to meet you in Iqaluit, but we can’t. We were hoping to introduce you to some of the people that we need in our world that we are having a hard time getting ahold of.
To give you an idea, a dispatcher for a search and rescue operation is the same type of dispatching schools for someone on a daily basis who is dispatching aircraft. We are having a tough time because of the southern hiring of personnel. We are not getting that northern migration that we used to get.
Senator Poirier: Thank you for being here. My apologies for being late. The traffic was stopped due to a delegation from Portugal, I think, that took priority over us getting here.
I will touch again on some of the points that have already started the discussion of Senators Ringuette and Hartling.
You mentioned a challenge about attracting and retaining the employees that you have with the right skills. When I see the word “retaining,” it tells me that maybe you had them and are losing them. Why are we losing them? Is it because of the cost of living in the North or the location? Is it because of competitive salaries to the North compared to the South and of them being drawn to other parts of Canada or the world? What are the challenges?
Mr. Priestley: Yes is the answer to all of those questions. We get people who come from the South to gain experience in the North and we are proud of that transition. But then they want to leave. The North is not for everyone. For those who have been there, you either love it a lot or like it for a while, but you don’t stay there. So we have this.
That used to be a three- to five-year transition. A young person of 25 or 26 would go up there and two out of five would say, “I like this life. I’m staying in the North.” A third would say, “No. I’m going to the mainland.” In the aviation basis, it’s bigger, better faster. You might have had a great a career and did well. The most satisfying flying I did was medevac flying in Newfoundland, which is what I did for a couple of years.
Many pilots, however, want to move on. They want to get that job with a mainline carrier like Air Canada. They want to do that. We are experiencing that.
Right now, we have never had such a hiring binge going on by the major airlines. Where I used to work at the Canadian Council of Aviation Aerospace, they came out with a labour market study that indicates in the next 20 years, 62,000 pilots around the world will be needed. Of that, 7,000 are needed in Canada. Those are enormous numbers and we are not producing those numbers. Yes, we are having a real challenge for trained personnel in the North.
Senator Poirier: I am from New Brunswick. I know this is happening in our schools at home, and I am assuming it is probably happening in schools across the country — hopefully, it is. Once students get into the end of Grade 11 and into Grade 12, they have orientation career days where sometimes they have different people — it could be from post-secondary institutions, or from different businesses, specifically if there is a lack in the country of a demand — come into the schools to speak with the students to make them aware that there are job opportunities out there in certain areas. They give them information on what the job is and what the salary levels are, et cetera. Is that something your company participates in or does?
Mr. Priestley: NATA members do. On a regular basis there are career fairs of that nature taking place.
One of the problems you mentioned was the expense of getting into aviation as flight crew is quite high. We don’t have a lot of funding support in that area. If I could focus back on to the role of the search and rescue and the opportunities and challenges, I am asking the question: Is there a need for a civilian SAR tech, for instance? We know how wonderful those guys are working out of our search and rescue places, whether CFS Gander or Halifax. I was asked earlier by another senator: Is there a skill set that we can provide a northern person that will enhance their employability and livability in the North? Perhaps they’re already a ground crew with a company in Yellowknife. Can we get that person involved? Do we have that capability now? I don’t know the answer to that.
Senator Poirier: I know in most of these different places, there are auxiliaries or groups that work on a volunteer basis. Do you have any interaction with these groups at all?
Mr. Priestley: No, and I would be encouraged to do that. I would like to have that opportunity. In each of those communities, there may be someone who would like to go further that may not know about us.
Senator Poirier: Regarding the type of training you are looking for right now, what should it look like and should it have a component of search and rescue? What would be your recommendations on that?
Mr. Priestley: Again, I go back to the model of the CASARA program. I reiterate: Do we have any form of program? I would love to help with an observer program.
Every year, I put on an education day for the North. This year, on April 23, we put on “Fit to Fly.” We looked at all the conditions that cause distractions in human performance. Next year, I would like to put one on how to be an observer. That is, how to respond to a call. We have a child lost or a boat overturned or missing. What do you do? Right off the bat, I would like to do that. I would like to see some of the search and rescue people in the room. We did that last in 2016 in Yellowknife. About 100 people gathered from across the North. I thought it was useful.
Senator Poirier: Is it a challenge to get the people to give the training? Do you have enough people out there who have the training you want who are willing to go up North to give the training, or is that also a challenge?
Mr. Priestley: For the training, we do, yes, because we have to abide by various regulations. I don’t know what various search and rescue training programs would be given, but we would identify the people and we could certainly do it if there is a will to do it.
The first thing I thought was useful in our meeting today was to recognize NATA and its willingness to provide whatever it is and to help in the enhancement of the response capability.
Senator Poirier: Thank you very much and thank you for being here with us.
Mr. Priestley: Thank you.
Senator Christmas: Thank you, Mr. Priestley.
Listening to and reading your presentation, what NATA is offering certainly makes perfect sense to me. Why hasn’t the government developed a closer working relationship with private sector organizations like yourselves?
Mr. Priestley: I think there is a lot the government has to do and I think sometimes we have to stand up and come forward. It is a big country with lots of things to do. In this case, it was just the opportunity, and since I was asked to come, what do I talk about? I suggested three things and I thought, for one, recognizing us and the assets we have would be a useful thing wherever this committee goes and whatever recommendations you make.
Senator Christmas: Do you think some of the hesitation from the government side may be due to your being civilian and private and the liability that government may bear if they engage your services for some of these activities? I am trying to weigh what the government may say to resist this kind of relationship or partnership.
Mr. Priestley: I don’t think there is hesitation. In any dealings I have with any part of the federal or territorial or provincial governments, there is never a question of hesitation to improve or enhance to help Canadians. It is always just a question of, “I didn’t think about that,” or, “As soon as I get all these things done, I will be right with you.”
I think this situation can be a conversation here, and the next thing you know I will have two or three phone calls from the regional somebodies who are really running SAR in the North, and then we start building that network. That is how I see the positivity of what I thought would be useful to discuss today. There is no hesitation. It is just a question of time.
Senator Christmas: Thank you, Mr. Priestley. We really appreciate that offer.
Senator Munson: I want to follow up on that. Mr. Priestley, would you recommend that we recommend that there be a formal mechanism for government and NATA to coordinate and put all these things in a catalogue? As you said in your opening statement, “NATA can assist with cataloguing.” Should that be a formal mechanism put into place that should happen and we might make that recommendation? You just said, “I never thought of that.” Well, life and safety is more important than, “I just thought of that,” in the North and everywhere in the country. Should we put that recommendation in our report?
Mr. Priestley: Yes.
Senator Munson: Thank you.
Senator Coyle: My question is supplementary to the whole series of questions that were asked around human resource development, training, availability and all the challenges.
Those are enormous challenges that you are discussing, like the issue of bringing more women into the workforce and the kind of workforce that is required there just to do the basic work that NATA does, let alone taking on SAR work as well. You are looking at needing people just to operate those airplanes and maintain them on the ground and then adding SAR training on top of that. It is quite significant.
Senator Raine was getting at my question but attracting people from the South will always be part of the strategy and there is a huge rotation of those people in and out. Maybe the cycle is getting shorter and it is harder to get them into that cycle in the first place, from what I understand.
As you have identified, you have people in the North already, in particular the Indigenous peoples of that region. I am also on the Arctic Committee so this is an interesting thing for me to be listening to. One of the things we will be looking at, not only related to SAR but that will obviously be important to the Arctic as well, is that labour force development issue.
I am seeing golden opportunities here. I would like to hear from you a bit more about the keys to unlocking those opportunities for incredibly lucrative, interesting and important career tracks for people Indigenous to the North. I think that is what Senator Raine was getting at.
Mr. Priestley: The operators are, first and foremost, in business to operate safely and make money. They will get their crews from wherever they can, and they do outreach. Every one of the northern airlines you know and a lot of the ones you don’t know do tremendous outreach in their communities.
What I have recognized in my job now, and in my previous job at the Canadian Council for Aviation and Aerospace as the director of standards there, is that we can come up with all the labour market information we want, as well as all the shortages, and you can talk about them all you want.
You are inside this 25-mile bubble but you have to get out to Pond Inlet. You cannot just fly in for an hour and you can’t do a teleconference. You have to put someone who knows what they’re talking about — and who is from the community — in the community and talk to the people for more than just half an hour before getting back on the next-day flight.
I think Air Inuit’s Sparrow program could be taken and used as an example. They have a program in which they mentor and bring in Inuit personnel. Some of you may remember the stamp you have been using for the last couple months that has their first Inuit captain on the ramp, Melissa Haney. I met her. She was from a Northern community. She started working on the ground at the airport doing baggage handling and what not. She progressed up and they gave her an opportunity to get into flight crew. They helped her with the financing for the training. They sponsored her. I believe there are now 13 who have progressed that way.
There is the type of local program on which I think we can work together. That is a combined program, by the way, and not just with Air Inuit. It is tied in with the Quebec school system. That is the type of program that I think has an opportunity through, for instance, Yellowknife, with the college there. We can take people who are already involved with these airports.
There are some success stories in the North, but can we take someone from Colville Lake or work with someone there so they’re aware of what search and rescue needs are if something goes wrong there. Not just the one phone number they make to Transport Canada. That is not important if it is somebody who has gotten lost in the Far North and you need to know what resources you have in this immediate area. That is how I think I can help and we can help.
Going back, again, to the question of going into the communities and finding out and showing people that there are jobs out there, they see the airplane come in and they get on the airplane. The average person in the North flies six times more than the average person in the South. They know how to get in and out and they know aviation but they don’t know how to get to the front of the airplane. I think we can do more there.
It is not just the air operator. There are limited resources. They try their best, but how do we get that message to the tiny hamlets and communities?
Senator Coyle: Thank you very much. That Air Inuit example is one that would be interesting for us to delve into more deeply to see how replicable or transferable that might be in other situations.
Senator Raine: What was the name of the program, again, with Air Inuit?
Mr. Priestley: Sparrow.
Senator Raine: Sparrow, like the bird? Great.
You also talked about the need for maintenance people. I have been under the assumption or am pretty sure that northerners are very good with machinery, like Skidoos and things like that, for instance. So there should be a natural transition for somebody who is interested in small motor maintenance to move on, but is it a question of the recruiting and the opportunities for training?
Mr. Priestley: One of our traditional ways of training people from the North is to take them out of the North and put them into large centres, like Edmonton. With the best of intentions, I would suggest to you that there’s a better way of doing it, and that’s to go into the communities.
What we don’t have in this country at all are apprenticeship programs. There is a solution, if we could get apprenticeship programs so the individual doesn’t have to leave Norman Wells. We can put somebody who is working the ramp in Innuvik, and they don’t have to leave for eight weeks. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being gone for eight weeks, myself. That’s very traumatic. Can we work out a better way of doing in-company training, tied in with a federal program of support? There are no pilot apprenticeship programs for aviation in Canada today.
Senator Raine: This is particularly critical when you’re dealing with the North because of the vast differences. There used to be apprenticeships, so we’ve let something good go without realizing the impact on the North.
Mr. Priestley: There’s a program in Manitoba that’s excellent, out of Red River College, Stevenson Campus. It’s the only apprenticeship program for maintenance training that exists. Why isn’t there a national program? I don’t know why. But there is a national shortage for aviation personnel, broadly writ.
Again, I come back, and I brought this to your attention because, since the resources are tight, is there a way to combine our needs? The one thing I mentioned to you — I’m sorry to be repetitive — is the observer training program. Is that a possibility? Because it’s a skill that’s required for a bunch of other reasons. That’s something a company would like to have. Can we now tie that in and say, “Okay, Glenn Priestley is known in Yellowknife. He can be used if we have a call for a SAR response,” whatever that may be?
Senator Raine: Great. Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Priestley, for your presentation and, certainly, for your answers to our questions. Some great information you have provided to us here this morning.
In your earlier remarks, you mentioned the fact that there are some people up North that you would hope to introduce to us when we’re up there or get us to meet when we’re up there. Regretfully, you can’t be there yourself. I’m wondering if you could forward some names to us that we may be able to touch base with. In our couple of days up North, we could arrange to maybe just have them drop by and say hello and just have a general conversation with them. If you could provide some names for us and some contact information to our clerk, we would appreciate that.
Mr. Priestley: Will do.
The Chair: Okay. Thank you very much. Folks, I need to go in camera to discuss Bill C-55 for a few moments and our trip up North, just to clarify a few things. So don’t go away.
(The committee continued in camera.)