Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry

Issue 8 - Minutes of Proceedings - December 8, 2011 (morning meeting)

OTTAWA, Thursday, December 8, 2011
(16)

[English]

The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met this day at 10:03 a.m., in room 2, Victoria Building, the chair, the Honourable Percy Mockler, presiding.

Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Duffy, Eaton, Fairbairn, P.C., Mahovlich, Mercer, Mockler, Ogilvie, Peterson, Plett, Rivard, Robichaud, P.C., and Tkachuk (12).

Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Munson (1).

In attendance: Sarah Jane Fraser, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament; and Mona Ishack, Communications Officer, Communications Directorate.

Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.

Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, December 1, 2011, the committee continued its consideration of Bill C-18, an Act to reorganize the Canadian Wheat Board and to make consequential and related amendments to certain Acts. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 7.)

WITNESSES:

Canadian Wheat Board:

Stewart Wells, Director;

Allen Oberg, Chair, Board of Directors;

Ian McCreary, Former Director;

Larry Hill, Former Chair, Board of Directors.

Canadian International Grains Institute:

Earl Geddes, Executive Director.

Inland Terminal Association of Canada:

Cliff Bell, General Manager, Westlock Terminals.

Mr. Oberg made a statement.

A point of order was raised with respect to Parliament's consideration of Bill C-18.

After debate, the chair reserved his decision.

At 10:25 a.m., the committee suspended.

At 11:25 a.m., the committee resumed.

CHAIR'S RULING

Honourable senators, with regard to the ability of the committee to continue with its study of Bill C-18, as chair, I would like to draw your attention to the following points. Bill C-18 was referred unanimously to the committee by the Senate and so the committee has been given a clear and precise mandate to study Bill C-18 as per rule 86(1)(n) and rule 90 of the Rules of the Senate.

Rule 98 of the Rules of the Senate states that a "committee to which a bill has been referred shall report the bill to the Senate". Further to this, I would remind honourable senators that a motion was adopted in the Senate on November 30, 2011 that states that "in the absence of a report of the committee on the bill during presentation of reports from standing or special committees on Tuesday, December 13, 2011, the bill be deemed reported without amendment".

Honourable senators, in respect of Bill C-18, an Act to reorganize the Canadian Wheat Board and to make consequential and related amendments to certain Acts, some honourable senators have argued that this committee could be in contempt of court. To this, as chair of the committee I would say that, with the exception of the Constitution Acts, no ruling of any court can impede Parliament. I repeat: With the exception of the Constitution Acts, no ruling of any court can impede Parliament's ability to consider legislation.

I draw honourable senators' attention to Peter Hogg's Constitutional Law of Canada, Fifth Edition, Volume 1, which states, at page 352:

Not only may the Parliament or a Legislature, acting within its allotted sphere of competence, make any law it chooses, it may repeal any of its earlier laws. Even if the Parliament or Legislature purported to provide that a particular law was not to be repealed or altered, this provision would not be effective to prevent a future Parliament or Legislature from repealing or amending the "protected" law.

Honourable senators, to suggest that section 47.1 prohibits us from deliberating on the bill before us would accord that section constitutional standing; and that is simply not a valid argument. However, arguments regarding the meaning and powers of section 47.1 of the Canadian Wheat Board Act are irrelevant in determining whether or not the bill is properly before us. We have been instructed by the Senate of Canada to examine and report on this bill. Unless or until the Senate orders otherwise, we have an obligation to proceed with our examination.

Bill C-18 was unanimously referred to the committee by the Senate. I repeat: Bill C-18 was unanimously referred to the committee by the Senate. That decision may be found in the Journals of the Senate at page 694. As a result of an order of the Senate on November 30, we are obliged to report the bill on December 13. The decision may be found at page 687 of the Journals of the Senate.

If we do not proceed with our examination, honourable senators, the same order dictates that the bill will be deemed reported back on December 13. This committee cannot overturn that decision. On this, honourable senators, I call the witnesses.

Messrs. Wells, Oberg, McCreary and Hill continued with their opening statements and, together, answered questions.

At 12:26 p.m., the committee suspended.

At 12:35 p.m., the committee resumed.

Messrs. Geddes and Bell each made an opening statement and, together, answered questions.

At 1:23 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.

ATTEST:

Kevin Pittman

Clerk of the Committee