Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 15 - Evidence - Meeting of February 4, 2013
OTTAWA, Monday, February 4, 2013
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4:35 p.m. to conduct a study on CBC/Radio- Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act and some aspects of the Broadcasting Act.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable Senators, welcome to the meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Let me introduce myself; I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba, the chair of the committee. Before I introduce the witnesses appearing today, I would like to invite the members of the committee to introduce themselves.
Senator Fordin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis, from Quebec.
Senator Robichaud: Fernand Robichaud, from New Brunswick.
Senator Tardif: Claudette Tardif, from Alberta.
The Chair: The committee is continuing its study on CBC/Radio-Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act and some aspects of the Broadcasting Act. Joining us today, by videoconference, are the representatives from the Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise.
The witnesses will introduce themselves in a few minutes, but I would like to let the members of the committee know that, today, we have an opportunity to hear from Françoise Sigur-Cloutier, President of the organization since last November. Not only has Ms. Sigur-Cloutier held a number of positions at francophone organizations in western Canada, but she has also worked for 20 years or so in communications and public relations, including 18 years at Radio-Canada Saskatchewan as regional head of communications. So we are welcoming her with great interest today, given the topic of our study.
On behalf of the members of the committee, I would like to thank the representatives from the Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise for taking the time to share their viewpoints with us as part of our study and to answer our questions. I will now invite Ms. Sigur-Cloutier to take the floor and to introduce her colleagues who are there with her. The senators will then proceed with questions.
Françoise Sigur-Cloutier, President, Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Joining me is Michel Vézina, who is also newly appointed to the Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise (ACF). He is responsible for communications at ACF. So together we will discuss our particular concerns in relation to Radio-Canada Saskatchewan.
For more than 100 years, the Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise has been advocating for the francophonie in Saskatchewan. ACF's role is to support the development of the Saskatchewan francophone community and to stand up for each and every one of its interests.
The ACF represents approximately 47,000 French speakers in Saskatchewan. Since its inception, we have been seeking every opportunity to meet the French-language communication challenges in Saskatchewan. Our organization sees Radio-Canada's role as the key player in the communications currently offered to Franco-Saskatchewanians.
There is no denying that strikes and labour disputes have placed the full load and weight on the shoulders of the community and we have all felt the impact.
The Radio-Canada station is the only producer of daily programming and news in French in Saskatchewan. As such, it plays an essential and indispensable role in the community.
The ACF, formerly known as the Association culturelle franco-canadienne de la Saskatchewan, has requested Radio-Canada's radio and television services ever since Radio-Canada was founded. The impact of media and their role in developing and promoting language and culture have quickly sparked the interest of our leaders. Since we did not obtain the services of the public broadcaster at its inception, we established our own radio stations in the province the way you did in Manitoba and Alberta.
Those radio stations were major assets for the francophone community. So the francophone community managed those radio stations from 1952 to 1973. In 1973, Radio-Canada bought those stations and created the station CBKF in Regina. Since then, CBKF has been serving the province through a radio station, and also through a television station since 1976. Over the years, Radio-Canada Saskatchewan has become a major partner in developing the francophone community in Saskatchewan. Radio-Canada contributes through its programming and its partnerships as well as through its own initiatives. The public broadcaster has promoted the community, has encouraged the members of the Franco-Saskatchewanian community to have discussions on the public stage and has reported the ups and downs of Franco-Saskatchewanians for more than 40 years.
Many activities pertain to cultural development, such as the recording of shows, holding musical training workshops, and producing sound recordings. All those activities have showcased the Franco-Saskatchewanian community, allowing artists to grow and gain popularity inside and outside the province.
A number of major media events have sprung up as a result of the cooperation between Radio-Canada and the Franco-Saskatchewanian community. These include the following shows: Mathieuthon, when Collège Mathieu burned down, and Francothon, which has been an annual event for a number of years. For 20 years or so, public dictation and community debates have made it possible to bring the community together and to debate the issues of the day across the province, despite geographical distances.
Radio-Canada also provides a platform with a series of reports that allow major community initiatives to evolve through the media. The broadcast of televised debates, the coverage of community elections and activities are examples of the public broadcaster wholly fulfilling its mandate as set out in the Official Languages Act — especially Part VII, which outlines the obligations to support linguistic minority communities.
A final example that shows Radio-Canada's role in the Franco-Saskatchewanian community is the Year of the Fransaskois. The Government of Saskatchewan declared the year 2012 as the Year of the Fransaskois. Radio-Canada used this opportunity to present a series of stories, contests and special productions designed to promote the Franco- Saskatchewanian community and to support this year's main objectives of enhancing visibility and promoting the sense of belonging to the Franco-Saskatchewanian identity.
Clearly, Radio-Canada has also provided extended coverage of events through the year. A website was created, enabling the community to become better known across the country. That was a huge success.
Michel Vézina, Secretary and Communications Lead, Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise: We are sharing this with you to show how important Radio-Canada's role is in the community. We are currently concerned about the station's ability to maintain these cultural activities and public debates. We have gradually been feeling that this type of support is no longer possible. For instance, the ability to produce sound recordings and shows for the radio has almost disappeared. It has been years since any recordings were produced featuring a Franco-Saskatchewanian artist. The recording of shows is a thing of the past. This trend is very worrisome to us.
Time and time again, the ACFC and the ACF have supported the licence renewal applications of CBC/Radio- Canada and have regularly supported Radio-Canada in its special project applications, since those projects support the development of the Franco-Saskatchewanian community. We cannot hide how concerned we are about the particularly challenging context in which public broadcasters are currently operating.
We deplore the extent of the budget cuts that must be handled now and in the future. Federal funding for public broadcasters should be adjusted to reflect the mandate, and the complexity of the mandate, of being a Canadian broadcaster.
As you know, the scope of the overall service of CBC/Radio-Canada is huge; just take a moment to think about how vast Canada is, how diverse the population is and the fact that linguistic duality plays a leading role in this country.
Services include: the Première chaîne, Espace musique, CBC 1, CBC 2, two general interest television stations — one in French and one in English — two stations broadcasting information items non-stop; RDI and Newsworld, a specialty television station; ARTV, the new science channel; Explora, not to mention tou.tv, the Internet services and the network of regional stations. The reality of our country requires this type of complexity and diversity. We hope that CBC and Radio-Canada will receive the proper funding from the Parliament of Canada so that they can maintain the services we are familiar with and so that they can continue to grow. We hope to see the strengthening of Radio- Canada's regional networks and an increased ability to take action in regions like ours in Saskatchewan.
Currently, Radio-Canada is the only media outlet that produces regular radio and television programming in French in Saskatchewan. Radio-Canada's regional station in Regina plays a central role in enabling Fransaskois to receive information in French, to understand each other and to see themselves on the public stage. Normally, Radio- Canada Saskatchewan produces a minimum of six hours of local programming, five days a week on the radio, and over five hours a week on television.
We believe in strengthening the status of the main existing stations, because those stations enable Radio-Canada to carry out its mandate, more specifically to actively contribute to the flow and exchange of cultural expression, in its many forms, in compliance with the Broadcasting Act.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: To give you a few concrete examples, Radio-Canada Regina has produced a number of local shows over the past three years, which had not been the case in a number of years. Our understanding is that this increase in programming was possible thanks to the Local Programming Improvement Fund (LPIF). The increase in production could be seen in community and cultural projects shown on TV, including Francothon.
Since 2010, Francothon has become a telethon that helps the Fondation fransaskoise and is televised. Since the Francothon became a telethon, donations and the number of donors have gone up, and, as a result, the foundation has been able to raise record amounts. In addition to increasing its capital fund, the Fondation fransaskoise has promoted volunteers, donors and artists inside and outside the province.
Our second project —Le Silo à souvenirs —was a 30-minute show produced for the 100th anniversary celebrations of Zenon Park. The show was broadcast in December 2010 and it featured a team of multidisciplinary artists and the residents of Zenon Park.
The Chair: Ms. Sigur-Cloutier, could you summarize the end of your presentation, please? The clock is ticking and the senators would really like to ask you questions.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Okay. So let me summarize by simply saying that the Société Radio-Canada is increasingly important and that we are concerned about both the federal government cuts and the LPIF cuts, which will probably lead to cuts to services and all those great projects I was telling you about.
Another concern we have is the whole issue of the transition from analog to digital services. Radio-Canada is not responsible for that, but it has an impact on the broadcasting of Radio-Canada's services in Saskatchewan and the broadcasting by cable companies and satellite service companies.
In short, our concerns stem from the cuts to the federal budgets and to the LPIF, as well as the elimination of analogue receivers.
We are now ready to answer your questions.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: First, I would like to thank both of you. You are very familiar with this sector and your presentation was very interesting.
Before the holiday season, we asked representatives from other organizations the same question I am about to ask you. Those organizations are representing francophone communities in other provinces.
Actually, in your submission to the CRTC, you mentioned this issue and you suggested that a formal mechanism for consultations be put in place between the official language minority community and the Société Radio-Canada.
So here is my question. Could you give us some details about the current consultation mechanisms that Radio- Canada uses in francophone communities, as well as their participation rate?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Let me first say that, for the time being, the relationship with Radio-Canada management is still very good. We have a good relationship with the directors of the station and the regional director. For the time being, there have not been too many difficulties.
In terms of the consultation, we obviously feel that regional news should be more widely covered on the network. The national news barely covers any news from Saskatchewan. News from Saskatchewan is broadcast over the network in Saskatchewan, but we clearly do not have formal consultations. We have had an ongoing exchange of ideas and the partnership has been great on both sides, but, as far as I know, we have not actually had formal consultations, other than at the level of the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française.
Mr. Vézina: There is no systematic consultation mechanism. We have had visits and that was always interesting, but beyond that, we have often received updates afterwards, through other media, informing us of the decisions that have been made and that could have an impact on local or other type of programming in Saskatchewan. So our relations have been informal rather than structured.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Based on the comments that we have received, people were complaining that they were not getting enough news about their province on the francophone network in the Radio-Canada programming. Are you satisfied with that?
Mr. Vézina: In terms of the news, we clearly have television and I feel that, with the LPIF, there has been an improvement in local and regional coverage in Saskatchewan, both from the point of view of the fransaskoise community and in general Saskatchewan news. However, whether I watch RDI or the national Téléjournal, the only way you would hear about us is if an atomic bomb exploded in Saskatchewan. You do not often hear about what happens here.
When provincial elections take place in Saskatchewan, although they are covered locally by Radio-Canada, you barely hear on the network that this or that premier or government was elected. They practically go unnoticed.
I know that on RDI, when the time comes to cover western Saskatchewan, it comes on at almost impossible times. We are well-informed of what is going on at dinner time on the Champlain Bridge in Montreal, but not on the Regina Bridge in Alberta.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: As for television, there is certainly this huge gap that Mr. Vézina is talking about, but there has been a great improvement in radio since the newscasts have become integrated, even on weekends. What I mean by integrated newscasts is that journalists gather news from western Saskatchewan, the country and the world, and base it on regional priorities.
Even on weekends, if there is major news in Saskatchewan, there will be a radio news broadcast, even on the hour. These broadcasts are more than just regional news. They include integrated news that include regional priorities, which people want to hear, which people must know as citizens in order to do what needs to be done. So there have been a lot of improvements in radio. But as my colleague Michel said, there is still a lot to be done for television.
Mr. Vézina: We get very good radio coverage. As soon as something happens in a community, you can practically say that Radio-Canada is on it.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Absolutely, and increasingly for television as well, even on weekends. We now have news broadcasts seven days a week. The LPIF had made it possible, and what we are hearing is that, even with the budget cuts, they are going to keep the news broadcasts called Saskatchewan en bref, which are short evening newscasts of three to five minutes that air on Saturday and Sunday nights. Those newscasts are excellent for finding out what is going on in the community on the weekend.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much, both of you.
Senator Tardif: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for being here today and for your excellent brief. Your presentation did a good job of explaining the importance of Radio-Canada for your Franco-Saskatchewan community.
You also said that you are quite concerned about the federal budget cuts and that you hope that CBC/Radio- Canada receives adequate funding from Canadian Parliament so that it can maintain the current services and continue to develop.
What effect do you think the cuts are having on your region? What would you consider to be adequate funding?
Mr. Vézina: We are not currently seeing a direct impact on the amount of coverage or programming as such. I do not have the same experience as Ms. Sigur-Cloutier. But I know that positions at Radio-Canada have been cut here, and those people have not been replaced. We have not seen a significant impact so far. We may in the next year, because we know that the cuts are spread out over three years. But if we have not felt anything yet and if things are being done internally, we do not know what will happen in the next year, which is troublesome from the outside.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: The community cannot really know what Radio-Canada needs in terms of budgets. But cutbacks were unnecessary. Some stations, like the one in Saskatchewan, are doing everything they can to serve the community and provide as many services as possible. The budgets are reduced. Last year, a certain number of positions were eliminated. That is the case of my position as head of communications in Saskatchewan. In other cases, people retired and they were not replaced. So far, this is being achieved through attrition, but we can wonder what the repercussions will be with respect to programming, coverage, services and partnerships.
So far, we have not felt much of an impact from these cutbacks. But things are happening. With the cuts to the LPIF, which supported local programming, we are quite concerned about how all these measures will affect our services.
Senator Tardif: As for the Local Programming Improvement Fund, have programs been made with people from Saskatchewan?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Absolutely. I was just about to talk about it.
Senator Tardif: It is on the list that you have, with Le Francothon and the others.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Le Francothon, Le Silo à souvenirs, La belle veillée, the Ô Chanter project, L'Été, ça roule!, La Famille fransaskoise, and Caméra boréale were all projects that were set up using the Local Programming Improvement Fund.
Senator Tardif: And these projects were discontinued? Were they for one year or three years?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Le Francothon is a television show that enriched a radio program. Based on what I have heard, I do not think anything will change with that this year.
Le Silo à souvenirs is a project for a centenary. If there is another centenary, we will see what will happen.
La belle veillée was to highlight the Year of the Métis in Saskatchewan.
Ô Chanter is a project by the Plaines de Gospel choir that was set up by Annette Campagne.
L'Été, ça roule! is a summer program for the province. We do not know if the program will be back.
La Famille fransaskoise is a project for the Year of the Fransaskois. I do not know if the project will continue.
Caméra boréale no longer exists. It was a two-year project, and it was not set up this year. Caméra boréale is already a thing of the past.
With the Local Programming Improvement Fund, newscasts went from half an hour to an hour. They are still on and, based on what we have been told, they will continue. Le Saskatchewan en bref and L'Alberta en bref are the only two programs of their kind. Something like this will be set up in Ontario.
Senator Tardif: You indicated that the head of communications position was eliminated in Saskatchewan. What will the effects of that cutback be? Will the fact that a new position was established in Alberta have an impact on what will happen in Saskatchewan?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Alberta no longer has a communications manager, and has not had one for at least three years now. It is official now. The position was being filled on an acting basis for three years and, now, it is a done deal. They used that excuse to eliminate the head of communications position in Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan is now paired with Manitoba, just as Alberta is paired with British Columbia. The impact remains to be seen. The position was eliminated in June, which is rather recent. Things had been planned for the Year of the Fransaskois, for example, until the end of March. Everything had been planned and organized. It might have an impact, but we do not know what it will be and we are waiting to see.
The Chair: I have a supplementary question to that of Senator Tardif. The position was just eliminated. So you are not yet able to measure the impact that the position covering Manitoba and Saskatchewan will have on you.
The Local Programming Improvement Fund (LPIF) will not be renewed. You mentioned activities that existed because of the fund and that might not be funded any longer because there will not be money coming from that fund.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: We have no indication from Radio-Canada as to what will happen with this situation.
The Chair: But would you have any suggestions for Radio-Canada so that these activities could continue? The fund no longer exists, and one position has been combined for Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Do you have any suggestions for us or for Radio-Canada so that the activities could continue? Could you give us some examples?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Of things we can do with Radio-Canada? The situation is a little difficult. Like everyone else, they depend on government funding. If cutbacks are necessary, we would like to be consulted on what should be cut and the impact it will have on our communities.
Mr. Vézina: And not wait until the summer to tell us that a program will no longer exist in the fall or that something will be cancelled. A certain amount of planning is still required.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Right now, we are not telling Radio-Canada what they should be doing. We know that Radio- Canada is experiencing cutbacks and that there will be more to come. We are concerned about the situation. Do we have specific recommendations for them? We would simply like to be consulted on how these cutbacks will be managed, at least in part.
Senator Robichaud: I would like to continue with the topic of consultation that Senator Fortin-Duplessis raised and that you brought up in your comments. We often hear about this lack of consultation, and we have for some time now. Given that it comes up regularly, have officials at Radio-Canada made any effort to start the process? You are saying how you would like to participate by saying, ``we think that if there were an institutionalized consultation process.'' That is what you are recommending. Could you tell us a little bit about how you would like to be involved?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: I know that the president, Hubert Lacroix, came twice to consult with people in the community. The last time was in the fall, in September or October. I had not yet been elected, and neither had Mr. Vézina.
He came and, like last year, he met with people in the community. He presented them with his five-year management plan, saying that he was there to hear what they had to say and to consult them. Hubert Lacroix came at least three times. The regional director normally comes once a year to meet with people in the community, but that I cannot remember.
Regular meetings are held with regional management and so there have been meetings, and also with senior management of Radio-Canada. The fact that Hubert Lacroix came and sat down with the community and asked them to talk about their concerns was quite something. He was willing to listen. Is he the one who will make all the decisions for CBC's entire French division? I do not know.
We are not complaining that there has been no consultation. We are complaining that there is no institutionalized process. If there was such a process, we could prepare and work with them to manage their cutbacks. We are not asking them to come manage our cutbacks.
Mr. Vézina: Actually, Mr. Lacroix's visit was good. We think he listened to us. Now, how is the message being rendered? Canada is a big operation. How is this message reverberating through the machine? We do not know.
He might decide not to come for a few years, and that would put an end to his nice visits. We need something more systematic, on a basis that should be determined; would it be once a year or twice a year? We should sit down to discuss it, to determine how to proceed in partnership. It is not that we want to impose our will on Radio-Canada, but we want to tell them that we really want radio and television and Radio-Canada's various services to reflect a community that is building the identity, language and culture of our elders.
Senator Robichaud: Do you have much advance notice of these meetings so you can prepare briefs or suggestions about how you would like to see Radio-Canada react to your needs? Or is it rather that they come to see you and they listen? Based on what I have understood, when they leave, you do not know to what extent they have listened to you.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: We know at least two to three weeks ahead of time.
Mr. Vézina: We know a little in advance, but it is not an enormous amount of time. At some point, we learn that they are coming.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: We would like to be consulted on the programs we would like to keep. For example, if we had to choose between Caméra boréale and L'Été, ça roule, which is a weekly summer program, we might choose L'Été, ça roule. Between Le Francothon and Le Silo à souvenirs, we would no doubt choose Le Francothon. In other words, in the end, this year, we had so many projects, and we will have to cut that number in half, but we would at least like to be able to choose the programs we would like to keep. They have constraints, but we have preferences when it comes to those constraints.
Senator Champagne: As you know, last fall, the CRTC held public hearings before renewing the licences for the SRC and the CBC.
Did francophone organizations in Saskatchewan send a brief? Were they asked to appear? Did you express your concerns to the CRTC so that it was an important point in the licence renewal?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Yes, absolutely. A brief was presented, but the association did not take part in the hearings.
Senator Champagne: When I went, one of the things I mentioned to the CRTC people was the problem with the community news offerings, the local dog stories, you might say. As you said earlier, it is clear that traffic on the Champlain Bridge in Montreal is a local dog story. You want to hear about your own local dogs, not Montreal's.
But you said that you now have newscasts that are for you, that talk about what is going on in Saskatchewan. Has there been an improvement in that area?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: There has always been a half-hour newscast during the week. There had not been anything on weekends for about twenty years. Since the Local Programming Improvement Fund (LPIF), there have been late-night newscasts on weekends that complement the weeknight newscasts, which went from half an hour to an hour.
Our complaint is with the national one. We are well-represented by our local newscasts, sometimes even too much. People complain about being under a microscope. But on the other hand, when you look at the national newscast at 10:00 p.m., for example, or at 9:00 p.m. on RDI, we are much less represented, if at all. That is where we find there is a gap.
Mr. Vézina: Yes, there is a gap. No one is questioning the quality of Téléjournal or of the news bulletins for that matter, but we just feel that Saskatchewan — and not just Saskatchewan — is missing out on information from everywhere outside Quebec.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: And the news bulletins are not made up of fillers. If you watch the 10 o'clock news, you do not hear about the traffic on the Champlain Bridge. Out here, we say that, when we hear about the traffic on the bridge, it must be a holiday.
We feel that the news should represent the country more, the whole country. I think that even the local Radio- Canada would like that. That is our main criticism.
Senator Champagne: I understand that, if you are watching the news at 9:00, 10:00 or 11:00 at night, there might not always be a little bit of room for Saskatchewan, even on what is called the ``international and national'' news.
Our complaint too is that the situation is the same for people from Manitoba, British Columbia or Alberta. You must be fed up with hearing about all the problems and everything that is going on in Montreal at the moment, for example. All we hear about is the Charbonneau Commission and the fallout from it.
Clearly, in the report that we will be preparing, we will be highlighting what is going on in Saskatchewan once more. But there is a bigger problem. It is not just that you are being forgotten. We are going to hear a lot more about what is going on in Mali or in Syria than what is going on in Regina or Saskatoon. It is sad. Even for us here, we would sometimes like to know a little more about what is going on in Montreal or Quebec City. That is just what I said when I sent in a brief and was lucky enough to be invited to appear before the CRTC hearings.
I am pleased to hear that you at least sent a brief too. The people there seemed to me to be very serious. They will read everything and I hope that you will get nothing but a positive outcome.
Mr. Vézina: Francophones in Saskatchewan are part of the great family of French-speaking Canadians. We have children, we have parents and we know people. We are involved in as many different kinds of organizations as we have members. We know people all across the country. If there was an item about francophones in a national newscast, even if it was about something that the Manitoba government was doing, it would have an effect on us. We may be scattered all over the place, but we have ties that bind us tightly together. That is why I feel that it is important for the national news to step outside their focus, which is solely on Montreal and Ottawa and occasionally on Washington.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: I would like to add something to that. Not long ago, you said that we must hear a lot about the Charbonneau Commission in Saskatchewan, and that is true. But I do not think that Quebecers are hearing a lot about the economic prosperity in Saskatchewan at the moment, and all the jobs we have.
I feel sure that no one in Quebec ever hears a word about it, and we have to bring in immigrants from Africa and especially Europe to fill those jobs. We need labour, but our own country has never heard about that. Instead of bringing immigrants from outside, we could encourage people to move to another province. I am sure that Quebec has never heard a thing about how well our economy is doing. We have a major labour shortage; there are not enough people to fill the jobs we have.
Senator Champagne: One of the big problems, and if you ask journalism students in any of our universities, they will tell you so, is that good news is no news.
I remember when Pierre Péladeau — God rest his soul — came to testify one day and told us that the only good news he would put on the front page of his paper was that the Canadiens had won. Other than that, good news does not sell newspapers and I imagine that it is the same with television. The fact that things are going very well in Saskatchewan at the moment, that the economy is booming and that, as you tell us, there are a lot of jobs to be filled, that is good news. We hear about bad news much more than good news. If you ask journalism students in any of our great universities, they will tell you how important bad news is. No one covers good news.
Let us hope that they have heard us today and that they will somehow manage to get the word out to everyone in Canada, especially to francophones, about all the extraordinary things that are happening in your province.
Senator McIntyre: My thanks to both of you for your presentation. I echo Senator Chaput's comments about the renewal of CBC/Radio-Canada's licences last November. I understand that you made a submission to the CRTC and I also understand that the CRTC's public hearings will lead to the establishment of a series of conditions and expectations attached to the broadcaster's licences.
Realistically, do you have any specific expectations? If so, what are they?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: For licence conditions?
Senator McIntyre: We have heard about budget cuts, about the eventual disappearance of the LPIF. You made a submission to the CRTC, though you did not appear at the hearings. That is all great, but do you have any specific expectations of the CRTC. If so, what are they?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: I do not know. Our director of communications Marc Masson wrote the submission at a time when neither Mr. Vézina nor I were here. We will ask him to shed some light on it for us.
Senator McIntyre: To come right to the point, do you think that the brief you submitted will just be put on a shelf and forgotten? My question comes down to that.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: The CRTC will pay no heed to our expectations. At least, it did not when it came to the LPIF, not in the slightest. Every francophone community supported the LPIF, the Local Programming Improvement Fund. It made not the slightest difference that the LPIF had 90 per cent support. The CRTC decided in favour of the 10 per cent that very clearly came from the industry, not from the communities.
The CRTC certainly does not listen to what communities have to say. They listen a great deal to the industry, the cable and satellite companies and they are concerned with competition among the media. Perhaps Marc can speak to hat.
Marc Masson, Director of Communications, Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise: The message that we wanted to get across is that funding for Radio-Canada must be increased. You cannot continue to cut funding as it is being cut now and expect service to remain the same. That is the only message we wanted to send. We are not alone in saying so. It is the key to solving the problem, in our opinion. Is it unrealistic? I do not know.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: I think the senator's question was whether we had any conditions for the licence.
Senator McIntyre: I was trying to get at your expectations, because the CRTC is going to impose conditions on the licence. Do you have any expectations in Saskatchewan?
The Chair: Did your submission indicate any conditions that you would like to see attached to the licence renewal?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: I will have to let Marc speak to that because I was not there at the time.
Mr. Masson: The crux of our submission is the same as we submitted to you in writing today. Our expectations were principally about consultation, meaning that we wanted a stipulation that the corporation should consult communities more. We talked to you about that very informally today. Locally, we have very good consultations with station management here in Saskatchewan, including Mr. Lacroix.
We asked the CRTC for that and we are not alone in doing so. I am hopeful that it will be part of the licence renewal because we think that it is critical to maintain the services that are provided at present. We tried to underline the importance of those services for the francophone community.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: We always want to be served by Radio-Canada, by the public broadcaster, that is. But, for years, what we have been very afraid of is that, with all the budget cuts, there will eventually be no more direct service and that we will depend on one or two other provinces, or that the four western provinces will be lumped together under one umbrella. Actually, it is already a little like that.
The Chair: If I understand correctly, consultation is your most important concern and you put it in your submission as a recommendation.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Our main concern was with maintaining services.
The Chair: With maintaining services.
Mr. Masson: Consultation was a way to maintain the level and quality of the services people receive.
The Chair: Okay.
Mr. Masson: The station in Regina had a lot of autonomy 20 years ago and that is not the case today. Decisions are made elsewhere, no longer in Regina, or less and less so. So that affects what Radio-Canada can do in partnership with the community to help to develop it. We did not demand that in our submission as a condition of the licence, but it is a major concern for the community, and we passed it on to the CRTC.
Mr. Vézina: We were burned in 1996 when there was talk of closing the station down and moving everything to Manitoba. We fought very hard to keep the services in Saskatchewan and we succeeded. There was a lot of budget- cutting at the time and yet we finally succeeded in re-establishing a level of service, a visibility and a presence in the community that allows the community to see itself reflected, for our artists to have a stage and even for us to play a part in the programming. We would not like to lose that and we are afraid that we might.
The Chair: Does that answer your question, Senator McIntyre?
Senator McIntyre: Yes.
The Chair: I have a question about your presentation today. On page 6, you say that some cable subscribers in your province have no access to Radio-Canada Saskatchewan's regional signal. Is that situation being resolved?
Put another way, if they cannot get Radio-Canada Saskatchewan, where does the signal for those subscribers come from?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: That depends. Sometimes it comes from Manitoba, sometimes from Calgary, sometimes from other places.
Mr. Masson: We are in the process of listing the present gaps and then we will raise the matter with the cable company more formally. We understand that the problem has to do with buying equipment.
The Chair: Okay.
Did you want to add anything else, madam?
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: The problem is not only with the cable company; we also have a problem with Shaw. They do not necessarily provide their subscribers with the Saskatchewan signal. Bell does so at the moment, but Shaw does not always do it, sometimes not at all.
Some cable companies cannot do it, or it would cost them a lot of money to do so because they have equipment that is a little outdated. So we are in a transition period on the matter because the discontinuing of the analogue signal happened very quickly.
The Chair: Thank you very much. If senators have no further questions, I would like to thank our witnesses. Your brief was excellent and you answered our questions very well. It will certainly contribute to our report.
Thank you very much, and all the best to you out there in Saskatchewan.
Ms. Sigur-Cloutier: Thank you all. It was a pleasure to be with you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to us; we are counting on your help.
The Chair: Thank you.
Honourable senators, I am going to adjourn the meeting for a few minutes; we will resume shortly.
(The committee continued in camera.)