Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 7 - Evidence - Meeting of June 9, 2014
OTTAWA, Monday, June 9, 2014
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day, at 2 p.m., to continue its study on the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities.
Senator Claudette Tardif (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I call this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages to order.
I am Senator Claudette Tardif, from Alberta, and I am the chair of this committee. I now invite the senators to introduce themselves, starting with the deputy chair.
Senator Champagne: Good afternoon. I am Andrée Champagne, from the province of Quebec.
Senator Poirier: Good afternoon. I am Rose-May Poirier, from New Brunswick.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis, from Quebec City.
Senator McIntyre: Paul McIntyre, from New Brunswick.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Marie Poulin, from northern Ontario.
Senator Chaput: Maria Chaput, from Manitoba.
The Chair: This is the last meeting of our study on the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities. This was a one-year study. Today's witnesses will discuss the recruitment and economic integration of francophone immigrants.
Today, we are very pleased to welcome, from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, Rénald Gilbert, Immigration Program Manager. Mr. Gilbert is appearing by videoconference from Paris. I was actually in Paris yesterday. The weather was amazing there. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Gilbert.
We are also hearing from Yves Saint-Germain, Director, Information, Language and Community Program Policy, Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
I will yield the floor to the witnesses and, following their presentations, senators will ask some questions. I just want to let my colleagues know that, if any technical problems with the sound arise, it would be better to use earpieces to hear Mr. Gilbert's presentation properly.
Mr. Gilbert, the floor is yours.
Rénald Gilbert, Manager, Immigration Program, Paris (France), Citizenship and Immigration Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Rénald Gilbert, and I am the Immigration Program Manager in Paris, a regional office serving 12 countries in Europe and North Africa. I am also the area director for southern Europe, the Maghreb and French-speaking Africa. Before my posting to Paris, I was director general of the international region at the Citizenship and Immigration Canada headquarters.
Since 2003, Paris has had a mandate under the official languages roadmap to inform French-speaking potential immigrants about the opportunities to live and work in francophone minority communities across Canada. A small promotion and recruitment team was created at that time, and it is responsible for service to the public and communications for the Paris visa office, as well as for promotion activities.
The first challenge was to inform candidates of the existence of vibrant French-speaking communities outside Quebec. This was done through information sessions, media outreach and the development of local partnerships.
The first edition of Destination Canada was held in Paris and Brussels in 2003, with the participation of the following four provinces: New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba. The event was attended by 300 candidates, invited by European public employment service agencies specialized in international mobility, which remain our partners in this and other events. These are government agencies, like Service Canada, with the mandate to assist their citizens and residents who wish to work in other countries in Europe or elsewhere. They also provide assistance to employers seeking to recruit in France or Belgium. Their services are available year-round and are free of charge.
[English]
Destination Canada became an annual event with the participation over the years of all provinces and territories, with the exception of Nunavut. Since 2007, a recruitment component has been added. The public employment agencies preselect candidates to ensure that they possess the required skills identified on posted job vacancies and then present their resumés to the employers via the website.
The employers have different options. They can attend the fair in person; they can mandate someone to represent them, for example a representative from their province or territory, an economic development officer from their region or someone from the francophone community organization in attendance at the fair; or they can also simply arrange Skype interviews for preselected candidates.
On the occasion of the tenth edition of Destination Canada last November, more than 100 employers posted jobs representing more than 1,000 positions to fill. More than 20,000 individuals requested participation in the event and more than 3,700 candidates were eventually invited to attend the three-day fair in Paris and the additional one-day event in Brussels.
Several employers continued on to Tunis, where the Tunisian employment services agency collaborates with the visa office for two days of recruitment and provides Canadian employers with the opportunity to test the skills of candidates in trades such as welding and heavy-duty machinery mechanics.
[Translation]
Destination Canada is funded by CIC, and that means job seekers and employers are charged no fees to participate. Booth space, furniture, electricity and a WiFi connection, transportation of display material from Paris to Brussels, as well as local transportation are provided. Participation in similar commercial events would incur expenses of $10,000 or more. The expenses of employers and other Canadian participants are limited to airfare (with the benefit of a discount provided by Air Canada, the official Canadian airline for the event), accommodation (with the benefit of a package offered by the Megatour agency) and meals.
I should mention that, since 2010, in order to focus on francophone minority communities, the only employers from Quebec invited to participate have been those who also offer positions in other provinces. Since 2010, the Quebec Immigration Office has organized its own recruitment event: Journées Québec.
Networking trips across Canada are also held each year, coordinated by the FCFA — Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada — in order to inform employers about Destination Canada and about the support made available year-round for international recruitment. In addition to the low costs related to fair attendance and the added value of the pre-selection services, employers can also benefit from accelerated recruitment through the Francophone Significant Benefit special program, FSB. Thanks to FSB, French-speaking candidates hired for managerial, professional, technical or skilled trade positions outside Quebec do not need a labour market opinion. The work permit under FSB can be valid up to two years and is renewable. This allows candidates to transition to permanent residence through the Canadian experience class or as provincial nominees.
[English]
I should mention that the event in Paris and Brussels remains a hybrid. That is, in addition to the recruitment or job- matching component, it remains an opportunity to inform candidates about employment and business opportunities, services for newcomers and quality of life in francophone minority communities throughout Canada.
Several provinces have the possibility of nominating candidates in their provincial nominee programs without a job offer should candidates meet other criteria. Many candidates are invited to conduct an exploratory trip which can result in a nomination and the subsequent submission of a permanent residence application.
For the last three years, we have added a workshop on purchasing and creating a business in Canada. This is delivered in collaboration with the investment section of the embassy in Paris, with the participation of Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, RDÉE Canada, as well as a Canadian lawyer and a Canadian financial expert based in Paris.
This additional workshop was created in response to the need for succession planning for small- and medium-sized companies in francophone communities and an expressed keen interest on the part of the candidates.
[Translation]
Destination Canada is part of an ongoing series of activities throughout the year in several countries. It carries the highest profile of all our events, and allows us to mobilize employers, provinces and territories, and to attract media attention. For several years, the national television news in France and Belgium have covered Destination Canada; that means more than six million viewers during each broadcast.
Our other activities include regular information sessions in France, Belgium and Switzerland, and attendance at international mobility fairs and job fairs. Last year, we met more than 8,000 potential candidates beyond the parameters of the Destination Canada event, and responded to over 20,000 email inquiries.
Increased resources under the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018 have allowed us to expand the team in Paris to include a strategic communications officer. Two positions have also been created in Dakar, Senegal, to expand our activities in French-speaking African countries.
[English]
In February, we held our first Web conference, with more than 1,100 participants and an average connection time of 50 minutes. The participants were individuals located in Ireland, Tunisia and as far as away as Mauritius and Korea. We will be planning and participating in more Web-based events to increase our outreach to more countries and will look for opportunities to inform candidates about online job fairs through which they can meet Canadian employers.
We plan to develop our Twitter account, @DestCan, and use other social media, as well as the CIC and visa office websites to expand our outreach. These tools will be very useful to promote the new express entry system to French- speaking candidates in the coming months.
[Translation]
In closing, Madam Chair, under the new Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018, we will continue to organize the Destination Canada event in France, Belgium and Tunisia, while expanding its reach into other labour markets in accordance with the needs of Canadian employers, with the aim to increase the number of immigrants establishing themselves in our francophone minority communities.
We will also continue to expand our other activities to inform more French-speaking potential immigrants — in person or by way of the Internet — of opportunities awaiting them in Canada.
The Destination Canada model we have developed — matching Canadian employers with the best French-speaking candidates — is perfectly aligned with the new express entry model of recruitment currently being put into place, thus contributing to CIC's and ESDC's common objective of attracting economic immigrants who are best suited to meet the needs of the Canadian labour market.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Gilbert. Before we move on to questions from senators, I will yield the floor to Mr. Saint-Germain.
Yves Saint-Germain, Director, Information, Language and Community Program Policy, Citizenship and Immigration Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair. I do not have any prepared remarks, but I can say that our department also supports the economic integration of immigrants. So we would be pleased to answer any questions related to that.
The Chair: We will move on to the questions right away. The first question will come from Senator Fortin- Duplessis, followed by Senator Paul McIntyre.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Mr. Gilbert, since this committee began its study of the immigration reform, we have heard from a number of witnesses who are very supportive of it — especially the representatives of official language minority communities.
Unless I am mistaken, the reform will come into force in about six months. Can you tell us whether this immigration reform — through the introduction of the expression of interest system, among other things — has forced you to make organizational adjustments within your department?
If so, is your organization ready for the implementation of the reform?
Mr. Gilbert: Thank you. Unfortunately, I do not think I can answer on the department's behalf. I can certainly discuss international recruitment, which has more to do with my mandate in terms of the francophone aspect and recruitment abroad.
I think the fact that we can raise awareness about a system that is starting from scratch gives us a good opportunity to expand immigration pools, as we have had a huge backlog of requests — numbering in the hundreds of thousands at some point. We are now in a situation where we can start fresh and reset the system.
We have an opportunity to inform francophones that we now have a team. Here, in Paris, and in Dakar — but also with the help of our colleagues in Ottawa — we can raise awareness of this new system and explain to candidates how they could be selected.
Our responsibility is also to ensure that francophone communities can help employers find candidates within that pool. So efforts are being made on both sides. We try to include as many francophones as possible in the pool, and the communities make an effort to select them.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: In your presentation — at the end of the last paragraph on page 6 — you said that many candidates are invited to conduct an exploratory trip, which can result in a nomination and the subsequent submission of a permanent residence application. Is that mechanism already in place? Do you know whether any immigrants came to Canada, only to leave immediately?
Mr. Gilbert: That mostly happens in Europe. Before deciding to leave their country, such as France — and this is a fairly serious decision after all — people want to visit Canada and see whether they would like to live there. They have heard about Canada from friends, family, colleagues, but they want to find out for themselves what the country is like. In many cases, they establish contacts to see whether there are any job opportunities for them in Canada. That is always the first question people ask themselves: "Are there any job opportunities for me there?" Very few people are prepared to start from scratch without a short-term job opportunity in the pools we are looking at here, in Europe.
So, a lot of people do that, and many of them also go through youth mobility programs. For instance, 14,000 young French people visit Canada every year. Belgium and Switzerland also have similar programs in place. People come to Canada for a few months, or a year, and once there, they can see whether they are truly interested in staying and whether they can make contacts that will help them find a job and stay longer.
Senator McIntyre: Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Gilbert, you are showing some real dedication with the Destination Canada program. I am saying that because many witnesses who appeared before us over the past year have talked about the importance of working with immigrants before they arrive in Canada. The more those people know about Canada's economic and linguistic realities before they leave their country, the better their chances of succeeding in Canada are. To do that kind of work — as you mentioned, and I congratulate you on it — several steps have to be followed, such as job fair organization, promotion, recruitment and selection activities, and finally, the long- term settlement of newcomers.
I have noticed that, over the past decade, Destination Canada has been promoting francophone and Acadian communities internationally by targeting certain countries in particular, such as France, Belgium and Tunisia.
In a report published in November 2010, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages recommended that Destination Canada be offered in more French-speaking countries in order to expand beyond western Europe and North Africa, to reach the Caribbean, the Middle East and Latin America. What do you think about that report?
Mr. Gilbert: It is true that, if we want to expand the potential pool of francophones, we should focus not only on Europe, but also on countries beyond that continent. Destination Canada also participates in activities in countries such as Morocco and Tunisia on a fairly regular basis.
Our involvement in Senegal is more recent. The largest pools of growing francophone populations are found in western Africa, the Congo, Cameroon, Senegal and Ivory Coast. In those countries, the format of the Destination Canada job fairs cannot be applied in the same way. We do not have local partners who pre-select candidates. In Dakar, it has only been a few months since we have had employees who could go on private government service tours to provide assistance and identify interested individuals who could succeed in Canada. That is why we want to take action and increase our presence through web conferencing. We have only just begun. We will hold a web conference in July and another one in September to try to reach people who are not necessarily living in regions where we have offices and staff.
Until last year, we had only one full-time employee handling all that. Selecting immigrants in a broader sense is only one part of our mandate. Now, we have more employees, so we have greater means to explore new pools such as western Africa and Haiti. We have several contacts with Mauritius. That country's representatives attended the latest Destination Canada event, as did Moroccan employment service representatives.
We are gradually increasing the pools' size, but that does take time.
Senator McIntyre: Mr. Saint-Germain, I see that you are the Director of the Information, Language and Community Program Policy. We are talking about the recruitment and economic integration of francophone immigrants, both internationally and at the community level. I would like to talk to you about the situation in communities.
When it comes to the economic integration of immigrants in a minority situation, credential recognition and job market integration of newcomers remain major issues. The witnesses who appeared before us have said several times that some progress has indeed been made, but that much remained to be done. Fortunately, some francophone postsecondary institutions are already offering francophone immigrants retraining services, language training and job search services.
Can you tell us about that? Credential recognition is often brought up as a major challenge.
Mr. Saint-Germain: Credential recognition is a very important issue for immigrants who come to Canada. It is not enough to be selected; they have to integrate a profession.
Citizenship and Immigration Canada is aware of this problem. We provide pre-departure services with non-profit organizations. The Association of Canadian Community Colleges, ACCC, provides information sessions that help immigrants determine, in the case of regulated professions, what the best way to have their credentials recognized would be. An assistance process abroad helps immigrants understand the challenges, including what training is required and where to obtain it.
ACCC — with its pan-Canadian network of colleges, universities and university partners — can direct immigrants to the available training. CIC funds various training programs for those immigrants. Some of them are focused on professions, and others on language training. The process can move along more swiftly if those immigrants' professions are targeted by the one-year recognition program with the provinces and territories. We are doing some important work in this area.
Senator Poirier: My question is for Mr. Gilbert. You promote francophone and Acadian communities internationally. Do you have any statistics on what percentage of newcomers remain in Canada or return to their home country?
Mr. Gilbert: We are often asked this question. Unfortunately, we do not have any relevant data available. We know when people arrive, but we do not know when they leave Canada, after a certain period of time.
Do some people go back home? Yes. I regularly meet people who lived in Canada for 5, 10 or 15 years, and who then returned home to take care of their parents or to take on new professional challenges. We have no data on departures, so it is difficult to assess that aspect. However, the Statistics Canada data indicates that the communities are growing. That means a high percentage of people remain in Canada.
Unfortunately, I have no answer to your question.
Senator Poirier: Do you follow up with those who used your program once you know they have left the country? Do you establish contact with those individuals after the fact?
Mr. Gilbert: We keep databases on individuals who contacted us and to whom we issued a visa. However, they are not under any obligation to respond to us. Once they have settled in Canada, they do not necessarily contact us again. After the recruitment stage is completed, their main concern is to integrate into Canada. So we do not necessarily have regular contact with them. Some individuals do get in touch with us to ask for services. Otherwise, there is not necessarily any further contact.
Mr. Saint-Germain could probably say more about this.
Mr. Saint-Germain: The settlement program funds integration services across the country. We poll immigrants regularly. We are actually preparing the next survey, where we ask immigrants what factors influence their decision to stay in a community. Employment is the most important factor, but so are community roots. In some cases, being part of a community that also includes countrymen greatly contributes to immigrant retention.
We use that data to inform our programs and policies, and also to include additional elements in tender notices — whether we are talking about mentoring or immigrant assistance programs — to put them in contact with employers.
Senator Poirier: Is there a Canadian region that is more popular than others and attracts immigrants who are part of your program? If so, what are the reasons for that popularity? What kind of promotion do you do to attract immigrants to certain parts of Canada, such as New Brunswick, the only officially bilingual province? What promotion exercises do you conduct?
Mr. Gilbert: A large part of our responsibility consists in raising immigrants' awareness of the existence of francophone communities. A lot of francophones around the world do not know that there are other francophone cities in Canada beside than Montreal. Our main challenge is to make them aware that there is more to Canada than Montreal.
We start by making them understand that many francophones live elsewhere in Canada and that French-speaking communities do exist. We make extensive use of the FCFA map, which indicates the number of francophones living throughout the country, including New Brunswick. We tell them about the opportunities in various places, but we cannot control their choice. Most of the time, their decision is motivated by employment opportunities. That is really the number one factor. Before an individual decides to uproot their family, they look at job opportunities in their field. If those job opportunities are in British Columbia, they will decide to go there. If the opportunities are in New Brunswick, that is where they will go. This is by far the main factor.
Senator Chaput: My first question is for Mr. Gilbert. The Destination Canada initiative has now become an annual event. It is supported financially by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration through the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018.
Citizenship and Immigration Canada, just as a number of other departments, has had to conduct a strategic review of its operations. According to what I have been told, Destination Canada was affected by some of the cuts made. Can you tell us whether those cuts have had an impact on communities' ability to participate in Destination Canada and to recruit?
Mr. Gilbert: I always have a bit of a hard time answering this question, since our foreign budget for the Destination Canada event has not decreased. On the contrary, is has increased, and there has been no impact on our accessibility abroad and our activities.
The aspect you allude to mostly has to do with the fact that the department does not cover the travel costs for community members or employers who want to participate in Destination Canada, a job fair that takes place in November and is most closely related to this event. I cannot really establish a link between the two, since it is not the Destination Canada event budget that is no longer available to them, but rather the CIC budget that was allocated for their participation in Destination Canada.
I would like to add that the Destination Canada event is a job fair that is held over the course of a week every year. However, we have activities 52 weeks a year, and we meet a lot more candidates beyond the parameters of Destination Canada than during the actual event. We occasionally meet community people who do not necessarily attend the fair. We instead meet them when they visit Paris or Dakar for various reasons. I know that FCFA representatives came to Dakar recently, and we met with them there.
Senator Chaput: That corroborates one witness' claim that he could not attend Destination Canada this year owing to budget cuts. That must be related to what you are talking about — the fact that their travel expenses are no longer reimbursed if they want to go to the event.
Mr. Gilbert: The department does not reimburse any travel expenses for Destination Canada attendees or participants in other events.
Senator Chaput: When Senator Poirier asked you whether immigrants would choose New Brunswick, you said that you could not control their choice, that immigrants decide what province they want to settle in. Would it not be all the more important to have representatives of each interested province make their pitch and talk to immigrants, so as to attract them to their province?
Mr. Gilbert: Yes, and virtually all the provinces attended the latest Destination Canada event. Alberta was not there for its own reasons. New Brunswick is in France this week, and it participated in an event last week organized by the newspaper Le Monde. Ontario, New Brunswick and Northwest Territories were in attendance. Over 5,000 participants were there, and we conducted individual interviews with nearly 400 of them. I made two presentations, both of which were attended by more than 300 individuals, including representatives from New Brunswick, Ontario and Northwest Territories.
There are also opportunities beyond the parameters of the Destination Canada event. New Brunswick representatives use their own budget to attend events in order to promote and select immigrants, since they can select provincial nominees.
That is just one example, as this happens several times a year.
Senator Chaput: Aside from the Destination Canada event, how many annual recruitment activities do you organize where various communities can participate?
Mr. Gilbert: We organize some 40 events at the Canadian Cultural Centre in Paris. That is very limited, but we participate in job fairs and student fairs that are held in various locations, for a total of about 90 events per year.
As for events like the one I just described — organized on such a large scale and attended by thousands of people who participate in expatriation fairs — only two or three such events are held every year.
However, a presentation is put together every two weeks at the Canadian Cultural Centre, where we can host about 100 people. Usually, we invite about 110 individuals and approximately 90 of them show up. We try to have the maximum participation without exceeding the centre's capacity. We are on the ground for those presentations. This week, for instance, someone is going on tour with New Brunswick, with stops in Lyon, Toulouse, Geneva, Brussels and Paris. Moreover, one of my staff members is currently in western Canada to encourage employers from Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia to participate in the next Destination Canada event.
We make those trips about three times a year, with one stop per region. Overall, we may be talking about some 90 events, but they vary greatly in scale. There may be only 30 participants or, in Destination Canada's case, nearly 4,000. So attendance varies a lot.
Senator Chaput: Is Manitoba part of what you just talked about? I am asking you this because I hail from that province.
Mr. Gilbert: A few provinces have attended every event since 2003, and a number of them are almost always there. Manitoba and New Brunswick usually send very large delegations. Ontario sends big teams, and that was especially the case this last time. At events attended by hundreds of people, it is important to have enough staff in the booths to answer questions. It is difficult to do that when only one individual is manning the booth.
As I said earlier, over the past few years, all the provinces and territories, with the exception of Nunavut, attended almost every year. There are often one or two provinces missing. Prince Edward Island was there two years ago, and Alberta participated last year. Attendance often varies for budget and timing reasons.
Senator Chaput: I would like to add my name to the list for the second round, so that I can ask Mr. Saint-Germain a question.
The Chair: Of course.
Senator Champagne: Based on what a witness told us last week, I would go as far as to say that Manitoba is almost constantly among your partners. The province manages a program titled Exploration, through which it invites individuals who could be interested in spending a month or so in Saint-Boniface to get a good idea of what kind of a life they could have there and see that this region of Manitoba does boast a large francophone population.
As a witness told us last week, the problem is that those people may be francophones at the outset — or they were able to learn the language and continue learning it — but they realize that, in order to live in Winnipeg, they eventually have to learn Canada's other official language and be able to function in English, as well. That may cause problems when it comes to retaining newcomers. They move there, and they may like it, but after a while, they may experience difficulties in making themselves understood or communicating in their everyday life outside the francophone community. Is this something you talk about at Destination Canada? It is great if someone speaks French or is open to learning it, but they also have to prepare for the fact that, by immigrating to a place like Manitoba, they will also have to learn the country's other language.
Mr. Gilbert: I should have described how we proceed during a Destination Canada event. We start things off with a presentation. We host a group of about 400 individuals at a time, and we make a 30-to-40-minute presentation on Canadian realities. We establish comparisons between our location — be it Belgium, France or Tunisia — and Canada in terms of job market differences and expectations people may have. Some other topics we discuss are language issues, as well as leave systems, wages and lifestyles. People often just think of the winter when they think about Canada, but they realize the differences are more numerous than they may think.
Having gone in the other direction, I realize that we are really North Americans who speak French, as opposed to French people.
After the initial presentation, we have a speaker who immigrated to Canada and lived there for a dozen years. That individual describes their own experience, as well as that of people they know, in terms of integration, friendship building, grocery shopping, and similar considerations.
Afterwards, each province makes a short presentation on the benefits of living there — be it New Brunswick or Yukon. That part is sort of like a talent show in that people try to make their pitch and tell others that their province is the most beautiful one with the lowest unemployment rate, the best croissants, and so on.
Once that part is over, the 400 participants move to a room next door, where employers have their booths set up. Provinces are also represented, as are France job services, which help people establish a connection between an employer and their qualifications. So people walk around in that area while we host the second group in the neighbouring room.
The language issue is raised more often than not, since we know that causes problems for many people, including the French. That is less of a case in other pools, but here, it is still surprising how many young French people are not particularly fluent in any other language. We tell them that they should have some basic knowledge before coming to Canada. We tell them that they will probably be able to live in French, but for work purposes, knowledge of English is very desirable, sometimes even indispensable.
Mr. Saint-Germain: To follow up on what Mr. Gilbert said, CIC's website for francophone immigration explains the conditions for integrating Manitoba and other Canadian regions. That is why CIC has been funding free language training for immigrants through the settlement program since 1992. So francophone immigrants can take English courses, under LINC, a language instruction program. Newcomers can attend those free courses for months — or for as long as they want, since there is no limit. That also helps prepare them for the job market and create connections with employers. Those services are provided in collaboration with community organizations, and we work closely with the Société franco-manitobaine, on the ground, in Manitoba.
Senator Champagne: You will agree with me if I say that, the better prepared immigrants are before coming here, the more likely we are to retain them in the country. They must be prepared to speak two languages. Belgians know what it means to live in a country with at least two languages, but that can be a new experience for people who come from other parts of the world.
We had a young man from Senegal testifying last week. He is in charge of a francophone group in Saint-Boniface. He mentioned that the Canadian government did not consider him as a francophone, since he would not answer that his mother tongue was French in the census form because he spoke one of the Senegalese languages first. But he has worked so hard since arriving here to make newcomers feel welcome and not alone.
The last issue I wanted to raise — and someone else talked about this earlier — has to do with problems with recognizing skills acquired abroad.
Nothing makes me angrier than taking a taxi and talking to someone who was a doctor in their country, when I am unable to get an appointment with my doctor here. We also see this with engineers and other professionals. I think we have a lot of work to do — and I am very sad, since I am leaving the Senate in less than a month — to try to make federal and provincial governments establish a system to facilitate credential recognition. That way, a doctor from another country would not have to redo five or six years of studies to be able to practise medicine in one of our provinces.
Is that a question you are asked? Do you have a better answer than I do?
Mr. Saint-Germain: We know that credential recognition is not an easy issue to address. On the one hand, the department is trying to better inform potential immigrants about the obstacles they may face in terms of having their skills recognized. On the other hand, in order to simplify immigrants' lives, we are trying to make it possible to assess credentials during the selection process, rather than afterwards. That way, people will know the truth about what requirements they have to meet to become doctors in Canada.
We are trying to establish a process for all professions with the provinces and territories, so that, within a few months — up to a year at the most — we would be able to fully assess peoples' qualification and clearly tell them whether they need to have an internship or take additional courses. At that point, immigrants can decide that coming here is worth their while because the obstacle is not too difficult to overcome, and if not, they can choose another career. For instance, a doctor can work in health sciences, which is a related field. So it is important to lay out all the options for immigrants.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Senator Champagne just asked the question I wanted to put to the witnesses. Issues related to credential recognition, as Senator McIntyre pointed out, remain a tragic reality for many of our immigrants who come here with training and experience.
Over the weekend, I heard about a gynecologist from Benin who has been here for eight years and has been unable to find any work in the health field.
Does the federal government play the role of a facilitator not only in terms of helping immigrants understand what the requirements are, but also in terms of ensuring that the recognition of skills follows an established process?
Does the federal government also work with professional associations — be it for doctors, lawyers, engineers or accountants?
Mr. Saint-Germain: Thank you for the question. The federal government does have a facilitator role to play by working closely with the provinces, territories and regulatory bodies to identify the requirements for each profession, and to ensure that credential assessment methods are aligned.
That is a huge undertaking owing to the number of regulatory bodies in the country for each profession. Every year, we try to work with those organizations to simplify matters.
Every year, we add to the list of professions a simplified process, and when a profession is added to that list, in less than a year, an immigrant can know what requirements are related to the exercise of their profession according to their skills and diplomas.
We have also implemented a mechanism for recognizing foreign credentials. We work closely with an organization that makes it possible to assess foreign diplomas to determine their degree of compatibility with Canadian credentials. That assessment will now be factoring into our selection process.
So we will be able to tell immigrants to what extent their degree is compatible with Canadian degrees, and what the gap is. If the gap is small, the individual may feel that immigrating to Canada is worth the effort. If it is not small, they may not make the same decision.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Do the new immigration policies facilitate the work you do with professional associations?
Mr. Saint-Germain: Definitely. Our policies related to the Federal Skilled Worker Program and the Federal Skilled Trades Program make it easier for us to assess degrees. As Mr. Gilbert said, with the launch of the express entry system in January 2015, we will be able to better select people for a database of potential candidates. We will know whether those people are capable of meeting the minimum requirements for a given profession. The simplified recognition process already covers 70 per cent of professions. So that is already a major step forward.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Beyak: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you both, gentlemen, for making this issue more understandable for us.
I wonder if you could comment, Mr. Gilbert. You mentioned grocery shopping and it made me think of many of our witnesses who have said that the simple tasks like that — grocery shopping, transportation, meeting friends, socializing, and finding folks with similar values and beliefs — are quite daunting for them.
Do you hear back from the provinces and do you have opinions on which ones are doing it the best and how we can get best practices for others?
Mr. Gilbert: I'm not sure I could comment on a province that does it better. Very often it's not necessarily the province, it's more within the community, within the group that helps settlement. It's family and friends, when they do have them, who help them to do that.
Often, though, new immigrants tend to listen more to members of their own communities than to anything that comes from the government. We are doing fewer immigrant interviews these days than the thousands of those we did before, and I recall that after we say to someone that they have been approved, the switch is put to "off" and whatever we say about preparing to do this or that before they go, it's very difficult at that point.
I can't pinpoint a province that does it better, but it's something we need to keep repeating at every level, every step of the way, that you have to be ready because, even if you came as a visitor, it's not the same thing to live in one place.
The other way around, I have lived in many countries. When you go as a tourist it's one thing, but when you have to do your own stuff it is very difficult, particularly when you don't know the language.
Mr. Saint-Germain: In terms of the integration policy and best practices, some interesting things are being done across the country. When we look at how Manitoba integrates immigrants by being very welcoming, welcoming people at the airport, trying to accommodate people, finding housing and helping for the early days — these are promising practices. However, from a Canadian perspective, the fact they have established Local Immigration Partnerships, these local partnerships are looking at to what extent a specific city or a specific community is welcoming and what the conditions are under which we should better communicate to immigrants, such as this is where we can find services and this is how we can help.
Across Ontario and now across Canada, those LIPs — Local Immigration Partnerships — are trying to define strategies in terms of reaching out. As Rénald mentioned, it is working with families and friends, but also working with established organizations to support employee initiatives, finding internships and finding resources to better support the retention and the welcoming of communities.
Senator Beyak: Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chair: We only have time for one short question, since we have to conclude this part of the meeting by 3 p.m. Senator Chaput, go ahead.
Senator Chaput: Mr. Saint-Germain, this question follows up on several questions already asked by my colleagues on the topic of skills recognition and degree assessment. We know that must be done in collaboration with regulatory bodies. You mentioned that this was one of your responsibilities.
How do you target professions, as there are thousands of them? Where do you begin?
Mr. Saint-Germain: This work is done through federal-provincial cooperation, in the sense that it requires the collaboration of the federal government and the provinces and territories, as well as the participation of regulatory bodies. There is a working group that is co-chaired by the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, RDEE, and our organization. In that committee, we and provincial representatives review all professional sectors and identify professions, which undergo a rigorous analysis to harmonize the credential recognition process.
A work plan is established with regulatory bodies. We use that plan to identify the obstacles to work on and try to adopt a pan-Canadian approach.
That is what CIC and RDEE are trying to do. That way, we add new professions every year. That accounts for all qualified worker recruitment, since 70 per cent of all professions regulated through that process are already covered.
Senator Chaput: Do you do that work? How long has that committee been around?
Mr. Saint-Germain: For about 10 years.
Senator Chaput: Are you starting to see results?
Mr. Saint-Germain: Yes.
Senator Chaput: Thank you.
The Chair: We have no time for any other questions. Mr. Gilbert, do you have any other information to share quickly with the committee, such as a recommendation or final remarks?
Mr. Gilbert: I would simply like to thank you for your attention to this issue. I see that all the members are very involved in the discussion. I am very pleased to see how much interest this committee has in the communities.
The Chair: Thank you for joining us, Mr. Gilbert, especially since it is almost 11 p.m. in Paris. Thank you for taking the time to be with us. Sorry, it is 9 p.m. there. I am from Alberta, so I always add another two hours.
Many thanks to Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Saint-Germain. We really appreciate your input, which will help us with our study. Thank you for taking the time to meet with us.
We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes while we prepare for our next witnesses. Good night.
(The committee suspended.)
(The committee resumed.)
The Chair: Honourable senators, we are resuming our meeting. We are concluding our study on the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities.
We are now welcoming Jean Johnson, Chair of the Board of Directors of the Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta, ACFA, who is joining us by videoconference, along with Ida Kamariza, Coordinator, Réseau en immigration francophone de l'Alberta, Association canadienne française de l'Alberta. Joining us in person is Roukya Abdi Aden, Manager, National Coordination, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité.
We will listen to your presentations, after which senators will put questions to you.
Jean Johnson, Chair, Board of Directors, Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta: Honourable senators, good afternoon to you all. I want to begin by thanking you for inviting the ACFA to appear before the committee in the context of your study on the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities. I will not introduce the two of us because our friend Claudette already did that brilliantly.
Since 1926, the ACFA has been the representative organization for the francophone community of Alberta. So we are here today on behalf of the 238,000 Albertans who make up that province's French-speaking community.
Since 2001, that plural and very diverse francophone community has taken in over 10,000 direct immigrants, as well as several thousand francophones who immigrated through other provinces and territories, especially Quebec.
In 2003, the federal government implemented a strategic framework to foster immigration to minority francophone communities and help communities benefit economically and socially from immigration over the coming years.
Five long-term objectives were adopted to increase the number of French-speaking immigrants in those communities and retain them. To that end, a number of cooperative measures were established between the department in charge of citizenship and immigration and minority francophone communities. However, it is clear that we are still far from the set objective to welcome 4.4 per cent of francophone immigrants within our communities — or 9,000 to 10,000 francophone newcomers a year. We are currently at 1.8 per cent nationally, and that is very far from the targeted percentage.
So what impact will the recent reforms have? Will they foster sustainability and help reach those objectives?
We appreciate the commitment of the Canadian government reiterated in the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018 to sustain francophone community vitality outside Quebec through immigration. However, we are still concerned about the impacts of the recent changes to the Canadian immigration system on our communities, especially in the economic class.
So our comments will focus solely on that class, since it accounts for the majority of immigration forecasts and since the impacts of the changes for other immigrant categories seem to be the same — both for the majority community and the minority francophone communities. To this end, I would like to share a few observations with you regarding permanent and temporary immigration in the context of your study.
I will begin with permanent immigration. The modernization behind these changes leaves a significant economic footprint on immigration, which will go from a model based on a supply of immigrants who want to come live in Canada to a model where Canada will invite immigrants to come to the country. That new approach is based on employers' increased involvement, as Minister Chris Alexander clearly stated in his April 8 news release. He said the following:
With "Express entry," employers will have a key role in selecting economic immigrants and providing advice to the Government of Canada.
We feel that the important role employers are offered to play in the selection of immigrants, coupled with the major involvement provinces and territories with have in this file — and none of this is subject to language obligations — could dilute the federal government's commitments toward official language minority communities.
We recognize the economic benefits of immigration our government is interested in. However, we are worried that our communities' vitality may be negatively affected if assistance is not provided.
Moreover, the following is stated in Economic Action Plan 2014:
The Expression of Interest system would allow the Government of Canada, provinces and territories, and employers to actively target highly skilled immigrants under key economic immigration programs, including the Federal Skilled Worker Program, the Federal Skilled Trades Program and the Canadian Experience Class.
The action plan also states the following:
In the future, the Government will explore with provinces, territories and employers approaches to developing a pool of skilled workers who are ready to begin employment in Canada.
It is important to note that all the consultations related to the implementation of this program, which will start in January 2015, are held with the provinces, the territories and employers, but without the participation and contribution of official language minority communities. We are worried, because we do not believe that those key players will bring forward the vitality of francophone communities as a priority. Although knowledge of one of Canada's official languages is one of the selection criteria, we doubt that the unilingual francophone immigrants are selected.
Statistics, which are tangible elements of analysis, clearly show the source pools for economic immigrants, a category that today accounts for almost 65 per cent of all of Canada's immigrants. If we look at the permanent resident category, countries in the Asia-Pacific region are the main source of economic class immigration. Immigrants from the Philippines, China and India account for almost 45 per cent of all economic permanent residents admitted in 2011. This finding is very interesting when we know that employers will not change their habits overnight.
We must not lose sight of the fact that, internationally, the larger pool of the Francophonie is mainly in Africa. However, that part of the world is not included among the economic immigration countries favoured by employers. In a presentation given on the Metropolis pre-conference day, in Ottawa, in March 2013, Jean-Pierre Corbeil, Chief Specialist, Language Statistics Section, Statistics Canada, said that the vision for the future of francophone immigration assumes that the primary source of francophone immigrants will be from Africa, sub-Saharan Africa in particular. Unfortunately, the recently proposed changes implement policies that, unintentionally, may well eliminate this part of Africa as a source of immigration.
Finally, the new point system for federal skilled workers will assess foreign graduates through two types of organizations: organizations specializing in the authentication and assessment of degrees received abroad and professional organizations whose assessment of foreign credentials is recognized by at least two provincial or territorial regulators.
Those two types of organizations will be designated to authenticate foreign degrees and attest to their equivalency to Canadian degrees. For us, this type of assessment will clearly have an impact on francophone immigration, because the education systems of countries with the largest pool of francophones are governed by the French system, whose standards are different from Canada's.
I would now like to share with you a few observations related to temporary immigration. Based on recent reforms, temporary immigration, which basically consists of temporary foreign workers and international students, will be given priority in the transition to permanent immigration.
The major impact on francophone communities will therefore depend on source countries for the temporary foreign worker category. With the exception of France, few French-speaking countries are among the pools for temporary immigration. Furthermore, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration recognizes that employers have an impact on source countries and competency profiles for immigrants.
If we look beyond the temporary foreign worker category, although France is one of the five main source countries, North American and European countries are predominant in this area. Actually, the United States, Mexico, the United Kingdom and Australia are the four main source countries for temporary foreign workers in Canada. With the ones from France, they accounted for more than 46 per cent of all entries of temporary foreign workers in 2011.
Francophone communities are working hard to educate employers so that they recruit immigrants from francophone countries. However, we are seeing somewhat of a contradiction. While the Canadian government is cutting all the funding for promotion activities abroad, it also promises in the roadmap to increase expenditures for activities abroad in order to broaden the mandate of Destination Canada and to have more job fairs and promotion and recruitment activities for employers.
Finally, the new immigration system will favour the category of foreign students. However, this too can be reason for concern. The disparity in fees for international students in various educational institutions will have a major impact on attracting students to various regions of the country. For instance, the University of Ottawa has just decided to allow international students who take three French courses to pay the same price as Canadian students and permanent residents.
Our findings show that, although we are in favour of economic immigration, we have serious concerns about reaching the target of 4.4 per cent for francophone immigrants in our communities, in order to meet the needs for the vitality of francophone minority communities.
I would therefore like to conclude my presentation by making seven recommendations:
1. Include francophone communities in the consultations being held in preparation for the launch of the Express Entry program;
2. Conduct a comparative study of the education standards in the French and Anglo-Saxon systems, which would make it possible to determine the likelihood of qualifying for francophones under the current policy;
3. Set up French-language pre-departure services to better prepare francophones who choose to settle in Canada;
4. Assess the promotion and awareness program in place, which is the main pathway to encourage skilled bilingual francophones to come here on a temporary basis;
5. Allocate resources for promotion activities in francophone countries;
6. Include a francophone component in Canada's comprehensive strategy on international education, which is now aimed at six priority markets: Brazil, China, India, Mexico, North Africa and the Middle East, and Vietnam;
7. Even though we have only addressed issues related to economic class immigration, the humanitarian class is still of great interest to us. That is why we recommend that those already integrated into our francophone communities, who are not subject to security measures, be entitled to residence on humanitarian and compassionate grounds instead of being deported after waiting for status for a number of years.
We respectfully submit these observations and recommendations to you and we hope that they will be able to bring about significant changes for the benefit of the vitality of Alberta's French-speaking community.
Thank you for your attention. We are now prepared to answer any questions you may have.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson. I will now give the floor to Ms. Roukya Abdi Aden.
Roukya Abdi Aden, Manager, National Coordination, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Honourable senators, members of the committee, good afternoon. My name is Roukya Abdi Aden. I am the manager responsible for the national coordination of the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, RDEE Canada.
I would like to thank you for receiving me this afternoon. I am replacing Gilles Lanteigne, the president of the board of directors, whose presence is required in New Brunswick, and Jean Léger, executive director, who is at a conference in Montreal right now.
When I was told that I had to give testimony and talk about immigration and changes, I wondered where to start, because the issue is complex. I worked for 10 years with FCFA as the assistant director in this matter and two years with RDEE Canada. I will try to limit my remarks to RDEE's mandate as much as possible.
I will start my testimony by introducing our network. I will then talk about the network's involvement and accomplishments in economic integration. I will then discuss the impact of the recent changes to the immigration system. I will conclude with some recommendations for the committee in order to improve the recruitment and economic integration of French-speaking immigrants.
RDEE Canada was created in 1997 with the objective of working for the economic development of all francophone and Acadian communities in Canada, with the exception of Quebec. Today, RDEE Canada is the national anchor of its 12 provincial and territorial members. It ensures the mobilization, cooperation and consistency of all actions with a view to inviting francophone and Acadian communities to fully contribute to Canada's economic prosperity.
In the 2009-2012 period, the members of the network generated almost $96 million in investment and contributed to the creation of 3,708 direct and indirect jobs. They directly helped prepare 935 business plans, community development plans and strategic plans that could not have been prepared without their support.
The members of RDEE Canada have also carried out over 100 research projects that significantly contributed to the economic development of their community. In 2012, the network and its members equipped themselves with the tools they needed to act more effectively by creating working groups on four priority issues with strategies and specific actions to accomplish. The first priority issue is the Canadian economic francophonie, with a view to helping francophone businesses start up and develop in order to contribute to the economic development of francophone communities and Canada's economic prosperity.
The second priority is tourism and the goal is to increase the supply and commercialization of bilingual tourism products, both in Canada and on the international stage.
The third priority is the green economy, whose goal is to explore and implement initiatives that make it possible to improve human wellness and social equity, while significantly reducing environmental risks and the shortage of human resources.
Finally, what brings us together today is economic immigration, whose goal is to educate Canadian employers about hiring francophone immigrants.
RDEE Canada and its members have a privileged relationship with employers, immigrants and francophone communities. They provide a wide range of services. For instance, almost all our members educate francophone and anglophone employers about hiring French-speaking newcomers. Not only do we help them understand the benefits of hiring francophone and bilingual immigrants, but we help them in the recruiting process.
In terms of immigrants, once they come to Canada, we support them with their economic integration. We help skilled and temporary workers find jobs in their field of expertise and we help them with the transition to permanent residence. We also help immigrants think about entrepreneurship with tailored services.
To foster economic immigration and the retention of newcomers, we help employers optimize and manage diversity in their companies. We also help immigrant workers with their social and cultural integration in their new jobs.
Let me give you some examples of the results that the network members achieved in 2013. RDEE Ontario helped 220 francophone immigrants who were personally referred to companies, guided and placed through La Bonne affaire program.
In Alberta, a pilot project made it possible to place 23 French workers, of whom 10 were interns specialized and skilled in landscaping, to meet the specific needs of Greentree Landscapes. Seven other skilled workers from France were placed in six other companies.
In Saskatchewan, 133 francophone immigrant job-seekers were hired through job fairs organized by the Conseil de la coopération de la Saskatchewan.
I would now like to take a few minutes to talk about the impacts of the recent changes to the immigration system. As you know, these changes are built on the following four pillars: economy, efficiency, licensing and certification, and safety. In terms of the economy, the new system seeks to establish a very close link between the needs of the workforce and the arrival in Canada of skilled immigrants as permanent residents and workers. That is the pillar we are most involved with at RDEE Canada.
Connecting skilled and competent francophone or bilingual candidates with the workforce needs of employers is what we have already been doing since 2009. The approach we have developed basically relies on the following two areas: knowing and determining the labour market needs in the various provinces and territories. In this way, we try first and foremost to determine the current needs and expectations of the Canadian labour market, and to find out what sectors in particular will have a high demand for workers.
Once the needs of the market are known, we mobilize and inform employers in the sectors where there is a strong demand for labour, either because of the hiring of French-speaking immigrants who are already settled in Canada or because of international recruitment, if they are not able to fill their positions from the workforce available in Canada. However, despite a well-established strategy and some success stories, our network is faced with a number of challenges in terms of the recruitment and employability of French-speaking immigrants. For example, we see that the needs of the labour market are evolving rapidly. It is very difficult to keep up with them. Every six months, we have to review and analyze everything in order to come up with new action.
Small and medium-sized businesses make up 98 per cent of the businesses in Canada and they have no human resources services. Their job vacancies are not posted. Basically, some employers are overly cautious in recruiting internationally because of the tedious procedures and because of the fear of abuse and backlash.
We feel that the recent changes to the immigration system will be to the advantage of francophone and Acadian communities, as long as adequate safeguards are put into place and the implementation comes with the investment of human and financial resources.
I will conclude by providing some recommendations that will let us work proactively with the Canadian francophonie. First, it is essential to have the resources necessary to enlist the industry sectors with strong labour recruitment potential by means of partnerships with the various levels of government and key stakeholders.
Second, many employers have no recruiting experience in countries that are the sources of immigration. As Mr. Johnson mentioned, this is mostly the case in Africa. We also note that they are not inclined to recruit in those countries. So we have to increase the efforts to mobilize and encourage Canadian employers to hire in the countries that are immigration pools. We also have to be able to offer them assistance in the process of recruiting and integrating French-speaking immigrants.
My third recommendation deals with the need to make sure that, in turn, skilled francophone immigrants have every opportunity to be selected by Canadian employers, especially given the implementation of Express Entry, so that they can become economically established in Canada. So integrated pre-departure services must be developed to support the recruitment. Those services will give francophone immigrants the tools, the information and the assistance they need to be hired by an employer.
The employer is the one in a position to be able to find the person who best meets the requirements of the available position. Services of that kind already exist in, for example, India, China, the Philippines and other countries, but there are few to none in the countries that are sources of immigration for us.
In conclusion, a study conducted by RDEE Canada shows that a number of francophone companies are faced with challenges in terms of the next generation of entrepreneurs. But, in March 2014, the federal government abolished the entrepreneur program.
We consider that immigrant francophone entrepreneurs are a source of immigration for our communities and that we have to continue to recruit them, specifically by means of ministerial instructions. Thank you. I am ready to answer your questions.
The Chair: Thank you very much indeed, Madam. I now give the floor to Senator Fortin-Duplessis.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Mr. Johnson, I would like to thank you for your presentation. Thank you also for your seven very interesting recommendations. However, I am not sure if I am mistaken, but did I understand you to say that you do not believe that giving extra points for a knowledge of official languages would help immigrants become integrated into francophone communities in Alberta?
My questions have to do with integration and retention. Are you able to tell us the retention rate for francophone immigrants in Alberta? And do you believe that better selection during immigration, as the reform proposes, will have a positive impact on that retention rate?
Mr. Johnson: There are a number of aspects to your question. In terms of the question on official languages, the processing provides neither parity nor equality. First, and I will give you an example, immigrants who speak both official languages, French and English, are considered anglophone when they arrive in Canada and are treated as such. So our community has difficulty getting to people like that because they are steered towards services in English rather than those offered by our communities. For me, that poses a problem.
Second, in the case of francophone immigrants who want to go to Alberta under the new program, the difficulty comes from the fact that completely different evaluation methods are used from those provided to the immigrants who speak both English and French. So there is an element of unfairness. In addition, people who come from a foreign country as anglophone immigrants have the possibility of a shortcut to a job in Canada.
In an ideal world, how could we provide communities with tools that would better meet the needs of immigrants who have the necessary skills, but who have to be evaluated differently? In addition, why could we not create a system that would allow us to supervise them and give them the training they need to join the job market in the language of work, which, in the case of Alberta, is English?
I do not know if that answers your questions. In my view, the official languages are not an obstacle; rather it is a question of the way in which both sides are treated.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Your answer is very interesting, and shows us an aspect that we have not seen before.
In our study, we have seen that, when people come to settle in Quebec, we find out that they have moved elsewhere at the first opportunity.
You have told us that there is a major difference in immigration when the person can speak English and French, and that the system is not equal. When a francophone from somewhere else in the world comes to settle in Alberta, have you seen the same thing as we have seen in Quebec, that they use the place as an entry point before running off to another province to try to become established there?
Mr. Johnson: Before I start, I have to apologize to you because basically, the springboard from Quebec to other provinces often sends people our way. Once people come to settle with us, their tendency is to put down roots because the economic conditions in Alberta are very favorable in terms of access to employment. They have to turn cartwheels in order to learn the language as best they can. That makes challenges for us because they have often been taken in as immigrants in Quebec. They have spent a few years in Quebec and then they come to Alberta because, for them, moving 4,000 kilometres west is a short hop, as they have already travelled a very long way to get to Quebec. It is nothing for them to come and settle here, but we have to start the process from the beginning and treat them like newcomers who have just arrived in Canada. Often, we do not have the resources to do that. It is a challenge for us, but it is a challenge we are happy to address and we are constantly looking for solutions to serve that clientele better.
Senator McIntyre: Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Johnson. Clearly, your organization is doing a monumental job. I see that it has been in existence for 80 years. You work with a number of francophone organizations in Alberta that are active in different sectors: education, justice, health, arts and culture, immigration, and so on. I also see that you are supported by a number of points of services spread out around the province. You have also set up reception structures. You have a website, Destination Alberta, and a community engagement plan to support francophone immigration in Alberta. You told us about that just now.
If I understood that plan correctly, it sets an annual target of about 1,000 francophone newcomers, a number that will gradually increase from 2000 in 2010 to 1,000 in 2025.
There are two targets: yours and the federal government's. The federal government has set a target of 4 per cent of the economic immigrants to settle in francophone minority communities by 2018. My question is this: how does the federal government's target tie in with the target you have set for Alberta? Let me add another question, is the Alberta government supporting you in your initiatives?
Mr. Johnson: I am going to ask my colleague to help me to answer that question. We did a proposal for a study with a consultant, Ronald Bisson. We based ourselves on the percentage. We calculated that 4.4 per cent of the immigrants in Canada would be about 9,000 to 10,000. We did not want to be too stingy with our needs, but we tried to match the two estimates. What proportion of the 4.4 per cent nationally could we consider attracting and how could we really establish a link that would counteract the assimilation factor in our communities? After doing gymnastics with the numbers, we arrived at the figure of 1,000, which, in our current context, is a very difficult target to attain.
We are no different. If it were not for secondary immigration — the people who arrive in Quebec and then come to settle in Alberta — we would be a very long way from that target.
Senator McIntyre: Do you sense any support from the Alberta government?
Mr. Johnson: In Alberta at the moment, there are a lot of political factors. We are capitalizing on somewhat of a revival in our relations with the government. At the moment, there is a race for the leadership of the Conservative Party in Alberta, with three candidates in a very tight race. We have the community fully mobilized, we are sending messages and we are talking to the Conservative Party's leadership hopefuls. It is a golden opportunity for us to make sure that people are listening to us and understanding us.
We always feel positive, perhaps by our nature, because we have been surviving in Alberta for several decades. We feel some support now and Alberta has been recognizing the growth of the francophone community in recent years. It now stands at 18 per cent annually. That is a lot, and Alberta is undergoing exactly the same kind of growth in its civil society.
That gives us an interesting reference point for any discussions. In a nutshell, yes, but I think that we still need a hand from the federal government.
The Chair: Ms. Kamariza, would you like to add anything?
Ida Kamariza, Coordinator, Réseau en immigration francophone, Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta: I would like to add a comment about the community targets that we established in our community engagement plan.
The honourable senator asked how it tied in with the national target. To establish the community target, we based our calculations on the demographic vitality of the time, meaning 2010. If we could reach the figure of 1,000 immigrants per year, it would allow us to maintain the demographic level of francophones that we had in 2010. As to how that ties in with the national target, it is a little difficult to say because, as Mr. Johnson mentioned, the immigration that we receive is essentially secondary immigration, which is difficult to plan for. We do not know when those immigrants arrive and we do not know the resources that we need to plan for. But we still must celebrate the fact that, at the moment, we are one of the rare provinces that are attaining the 4.4 per cent figure. However, if we were to receive no more immigrants from Quebec, for example — the province, from which we receive most secondary immigrants — it would be difficult to maintain that 4.4 per cent target.
Thank you.
Senator Chaput: My first question goes to Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Johnson, thank you for your presentation and your recommendations. As you know, the committee is looking for clues to a solution that can make sure that what is being done helps our official language communities to develop and flourish.
You mentioned that the obstacle is not the official languages, but rather the way in which they are both treated. You gave us an example that helped us to understand that better.
Are there any other examples that you could give us that would help us to better understand and formulate better recommendations? As an example, are there incentives that we could offer employers to encourage them to take in immigrants who speak French but very little English, in your province and mine, for example, since both are majority anglophone? Can we see that as a possibility in our situation?
Mr. Johnson: I have been working in adult education for a long time and I feel that part of the solution is to better equip people like that to integrate into society.
As for the program, if you look at unilingual francophone immigrants, or prospective immigrants from countries in sub-Saharan Africa, for example, they are at a complete disadvantage if they come to our respective provinces.
I wonder why, in a country that promotes its Canadian values of diversity. . . And that aspect works very well, but, in terms of linguistic duality, it works less well, because the language aspect is seen as an obstacle. I always go back to the idea that that is not necessary. Is it up to a country of origin to offer an orientation process, a training process, or up to a host country? I am sure you will agree that a language is more quickly learned in an immersion setting.
There are ways in which we can do it and it is the francophone communities who should be investing in English as a second language training programs so that people develop a sense of belonging and keep coming to us. Instead of building a community where people come to Canada in order to assimilate, we should be building a community in order to grow.
That is perhaps my only comment.
Senator Chaput: When you say training programs so that francophone immigrants can learn English, is the converse also true? Should we teach French to anglophone immigrants who come to us?
Mr. Johnson: I would champion that idea, Senator Chaput. I appreciate your comment.
The Chair: Senator Chaput, I would like a clarification. Was your question about better equipping the candidates or the employers? I understood your question to be about the employers but I think that Mr. Johnson interpreted it as being more about the candidates.
Senator Chaput: I asked if there are incentives for employers, but then we turned to training. But my question was about incentives for employers.
I am not sure whether Mr. Johnson could tell us how we can encourage employers. Is there something we can offer them?
Mr. Johnson: I will let Ms. Kamariza take that question. She seems to have an answer.
Ms. Kamariza: I would just add to Mr. Johnson's answer by saying that, yes, there are incentives that we can put in place to encourage employers to recruit francophone candidates.
Earlier, Ms. Adbi Aden was talking about support for employers in recruiting and hiring. That would be a very helpful incentive. One incentive exists already, the significant advantage of speaking French, which allows employers recruiting from French-speaking pools to hire skilled workers, temporary workers with a labour market opinion exemption. But that only involves three professional categories. If we could extend the categories covered by that labour market opinion exemption, it would be a very useful incentive that would help employers to see the significant advantage of hiring francophones.
Ms. Abdi Aden: On the ground, we see very clearly that to get employers to recruit francophone candidates, we really need to support them, to guide them, as I was saying, in the recruitment process, to help them find the right candidate.
Moreover, once they are here, we have to support them in job retention. When the employer has a new employee who is having some issues, RDEE Ontario does all of this work and has considerable success in offering these services to employers.
The employers come back because once they have experienced the help this service provides, they want to recruit in francophone countries again. I also believe that the exemption notice is a very important incentive, and it is our way of approaching them. It means that the employer will recruit in francophone countries rather than elsewhere. It is a real incentive to present that card and to tell them that with this notice of exemption, they are exempted from certain steps in the process. Automatically, they see the task as less burdensome and say that they are considering going that route. But that is not the end of it. We have to guide them and help them.
I was saying earlier that we deal with a lot of small businesses who do not have human resources. So our support really contributes to the recruitment of francophone immigrants.
Senator Chaput: Is any funding planned for this type of initiative, to support employers?
Ms. Abdi Aden: There is very little currently. I would say that there is about 1 per cent for the whole support component, once the immigrant has arrived. We francophones can capitalize by offering this value-added to employers, but there is very little funding for that initiative at this time.
The Chair: For the people who are listening to us on television, can you tell us more about the exemption notice?
Ms. Abdi Aden: The exemption notice means that the employers must go through the Department of Employment and Social Development to obtain a notice before they recruit abroad. Those who want to recruit in francophone countries do not have to go through this process, which lasts from three to six weeks and costs money. So they are exempted from that thanks to this exemption notice.
Senator Champagne: Mr. Johnson, earlier you said something that surprised me. You said that bilingual newcomers are automatically considered to be anglophones and are thus redirected toward English services. I would like to know who makes that decision, and why the bilingual person is automatically directed to anglophone services.
Mr. Johnson: To my knowledge, the authority in matters of immigration is still Citizenship and Immigration Canada. That department categorizes citizens in this way. If you are bilingual and arrive in Canada, you are considered to be an anglophone and are directed to services in English. This is a source of frustration for us.
I will give you an example. We have bilingual people who arrive from Mauritius. In our regional Grande Prairie office, we do recruitment with employers. These people have all sorts of excellent skills. So we bring them to Canada and there is already a job waiting for them. We give them a social insurance number and help them to prepare for the Red Seal certification. Once they have the Red Seal, they are treated as day labourers. They earn $40 to $50 an hour, depending on their trade.
But they are considered to be anglophones, and treated as such. Thank God, we have a local group that works very hard to recruit these people, to work with them and do follow-up, but the services do not redirect them. So we are forced to go to great lengths.
Senator Champagne: I would like to submit something completely hypothetical to you. Let us say that my husband and I have retired and we arrive to settle here. I speak French and English. My husband speaks French, English, Italian and German. In your opinion, which group will they place my husband in? He is a music professor and can easily teach in those four languages. Will they automatically place him with the anglophones?
Mr. Johnson: As things stand now, you would be treated like anglophones. You would be redirected toward English-language services.
Senator Champagne: I am not sure that we would settle here; we would think about it twice.
[English]
Senator Beyak: Just to play devil's advocate on the same question, we've been told by many witnesses that, because English is the universal language and the language of technology, the services are automatically better in English. They are pushed that way to get the services that they want. It's a kind of a give-and-take thing.
Nobody wants it to work better than I do. I wondered if you could comment on that. Rather than it being anyone's fault, how can we fix it?
[Translation]
Mr. Johnson: I think that we should treat the citizen who arrives knowing both languages with respect. He should be given, at a minimum, the choice of receiving services in French. To my mind, it is a question of respect.
I do not want to accuse anyone of being ill-intentioned, but I find it awkward that in our efforts to build a French- language society in Alberta, our hands are tied. There are certainly solutions that could be implemented. We have to re-examine the issue of recruitment and allow the unilingual anglophone from sub-Saharan countries to have access to the same services and points of entry as the anglophone from Great Britain or elsewhere.
Senator McIntyre: My question is very brief. Your organization has defined four economic issues for francophone communities: entrepreneurship, tourism, economic immigration, and a green economy. I understand that these objectives are all priorities, but are some of them higher on the list than others?
Ms. Abdi Aden: No. We really try to put them on an equal footing, but the one that requires the most work is certainly economic immigration, because there are a lot of pitfalls and challenges in connection with that one. We are in constant contact with the employer. I introduce myself to the employer, and I suggest the possibility of going to recruit francophone immigrants who are already here in Canada. The employers are not used to working with those people and they have questions. We really have to reassure them.
The immigrant himself must also go through a preparation process so that he or she can integrate. These people are trained, they have all the skills, and language competencies as well. Sometimes, they know English well, but they are not matched up as easily as if they came from a Commonwealth country. So now you can just imagine, given all the changes that are coming, the challenge it will be when we tell them to go and recruit people in other African countries, when they are used to working with people from the Philippines.
One of my colleagues from Manitoba said that in his province, the recruitment bus always goes to the Philippines. We are going to have to tell that province that the bus can also go to other francophone countries. However, there are also all the problems with respect to recognizing credentials. Mr. Saint-Germain was talking about that earlier.
What are we going to do if we can't solve the problems they encounter here? The francophone candidate is required to have his diplomas and skills validated, and you are all aware of the problems involving professional corporations and the fact that there are no services that support newcomers in that process.
We do not provide that service because sometimes the numbers are just not there; we often struggle with numbers issues, because there are not enough people to allow us to fund such a process, and this causes us a serious problem.
Recently, we took part in a meeting with representatives from the telecommunications and information sectoral council, who presented a database with a link between employers and immigrants here in Canada, but also in other countries. They told us that internationally, it was very difficult for them; they have to deal with other issues aside from the linguistic ones. Despite the fact that they have a person on site over there, in India, who helps these immigrants to prepare their resumes and gives them days of training, they still have problems with certain employers. We francophones do not even have these services.
It is all well and good to say that we are going to do promotion, that we are going to approach the employer and convince him to recruit, but if we can't find a candidate over there who is ready, who has had that support and is ready to take the job, it won't work; the employer is interested in finding a competent person who will meet all of his needs. If we don't have all of these services ahead of time, even if only for a few people in the beginning, and we don't have success stories with certain employers, we will not achieve our objectives.
The Chair: I would like to ask a few questions to follow up on Senator McIntyre's question concerning credentials recognition. According to what is currently being proposed, professional corporations or certain organizations appointed by the government will be able to review diplomas and decide whether candidates meet Canada's requirements or not. However, when a candidate submits a diploma from a French school system, what are the obstacles that arise when people do not understand the French language school system, for a corporation or an independent group mandated to verify these credentials?
Ms. Abdi Aden: I would say that they will come back with a lesser evaluation, one that does not reflect the true value of the diploma. When you do not know the system and are not in a position to make a comparison with the requirements set by Canada, they will attribute points and perhaps have higher requirements for candidates from Africa. You are talking about the French system, but there are certain countries where the French system is not in use, but a system particular to that country. How can you compare credentials from that country if you can't understand everything they represent? The evaluators will attribute marks that will probably be less than they should be, and candidates may be asked to go through a series of steps that may not be necessary. Mr. Saint-Germain was talking about the recognition of credentials; you may recognize credentials, but there is also the whole issue of recognizing experience and acquired knowledge. In the case of a physician, even if his diploma is recognized and he was trained in France, he has to take certain exams all over again.
Recently, we did some work in Nova Scotia where certain services are not even translated for francophones in professional corporations. For instance, a candidate may have his or her diploma and know that he has to take certain exams over again, but he can't even receive the information in French to submit the required applications, and the exams are in English. He may pass the exam, but it would have been much easier for him to do so in French if that had been available, and he would have had far greater chances of success. The candidate may be able to express himself in English and work in English, but I would say that this is not a fair situation. There is still unfairness.
The Chair: Mr. Johnson, is this what you meant when you referred, in your second recommendation, to a comparative study of training standards in the French and Anglo-Saxon systems, which would allow us to see what chances francophones have under the current policy to have their qualifications accepted?
Mr. Johnson: Absolutely. This is also part of the answer to a previous question which referred to the fact that it is easier because English is the language that is used for techniques. That is a false assessment. That is why the comparative study is essential. We can only talk about the content, training and credentials as though they were equal parameters if we have comparative data to refer to.
The Chair: I want to thank you, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Kamariza, and Ms. Abdi Aden. Thank you very much. I think that some of your comments were somewhat startling, in a good way. They will help us to reflect on the recommendations we are going to make in our study. Thank you for having shared your thoughts, your recommendations and your experience, as well as your expertise. We appreciate your contribution a great deal.
(The committee adjourned.)