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OLLO - Standing Committee

Official Languages

 

Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages

Issue No. 7 - Evidence - Meeting of October 24, 2016


OTTAWA, Monday, October 24, 2016

The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:33 p.m. to continue its study on the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act, and its study on the challenges associated with access to French-language schools and French immersion programs in British Columbia.

Senator Claudette Tardif (Chair) in the chair.

[Translation]

The Chair: Good evening. My name is Claudette Tardif, and I am a senator from Alberta as well as the chair of the committee. Before turning the floor over to our distinguished witnesses, I would invite the members of the committee to introduce themselves, beginning with the senator to my left.

Senator Mockler: Percy Mockler, and I am a senator from New Brunswick.

Senator Maltais: Good afternoon. My name is Ghislain Maltais, and I am a senator from Quebec.

Senator Gagné: Raymond Gagné from Manitoba.

Senator McIntyre: Paul McIntyre from New Brunswick.

The Chair: This evening, the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages will discuss two topics of interest. The first is the response of the government to the Senate committee's report, entitled Aiming Higher: Increasing bilingualism of our Canadian youth, which, in fact, received tremendous support from many organizations that work to promote French learning and French-language education. Second, we will discuss the Department of Canadian Heritage's Official Languages Annual Report 2014-15.

We are pleased to welcome today the Honourable Mélanie Joly, P.C., M.P., Minister of Canadian Heritage. Joining her are Hubert Lussier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship, Heritage and Regions, and Jean-Pierre C. Gauthier, Director General, Official Languages Branch, Citizenship, Heritage and Regions. Welcome all of you.

Minister, you may present your report, after which, the senators will ask you questions.

Hon. Mélanie Joly, P.C., M.P., Minister of Canadian Heritage: I would like to begin by showing some leadership. Allow me to explain. My name appears only in English, but it should appear in both English and French.

I am very glad to see you all at the table. I would be pleased to answer any questions you have. Of course, as the chair mentioned, my colleagues are here with me to provide additional information as needed. Furthermore, I would like to thank you for your report on bilingualism among young people. As our response shows, we share your vision, under which, English and French are at the heart of who we are.

I, myself, am a proud Canadian, a proud Montrealer, and a proud francophone who grew up with both official languages. They are part of my everyday life. I am a champion for official languages in Canadian society, and you can count on me to support the vitality of official language minority communities. Our official languages are a strength and an asset for our future, and have played a central role in our history.

Our country's foundations were built on English and French. It is in these languages that we have welcomed people from all backgrounds. Today, as Canadians, we participate in the political, democratic and social life of our nation in English and French.

We are engaged internationally in those two languages, in the context of culture and business. For all these reasons, I am proud to promote our two official languages, with the support of my charming parliamentary secretary, Randy Boissonnault, who is also here.

This evening, I would like to talk to you about our official languages consultations. But first, I'd like to take a few minutes to tell you about what I have already done since our government was elected.

The Official Languages Annual Report 2014-15 was tabled in July. It gives an overview of what my department and other federal institutions are doing to promote official languages and the development of minority English- and French-speaking communities. It provides information on subjects such as the increase in enrolment in immersion programs and support for artists in minority situations. As the report shows, some work has been done.

Beyond the report, we have taken concrete action since the federal election. Our government brought back the Mobilité francophone program to support francophone immigration in minority communities. I had the opportunity to work with my colleague, Minister John McCallum, on this file, and I am very proud of that work.

Our government also took steps to bring back training in French at the Royal Military College Saint-Jean to promote bilingualism within the Canadian Armed Forces. I had the opportunity to work with another colleague, Mr. Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, on the issue.

In addition, this summer, the Prime Minister announced a new appointment process for Supreme Court judges, one that reflects the importance of bilingualism. On that file, I had the opportunity to work with the Minister of Justice, Jody Wilson-Raybould. More still needs to be done, however.

[English]

For example, our government is working with provinces and territories to support second-language learning and minority language education. Every year, our government invests more than $250 million in this area, which is in addition to what the provinces and territories spend.

These concerted efforts allow us to help young Canadians become bilingual. Today, 2.4 million young people across the country are learning French and English as a second language.

Beyond supporting second-language learning for school-aged children, ensuring that adults have access to learning their second official language is equally important. One of the ways we can expand our reach is by offering Canadians a free online service for learning and maintaining French or English as a second language. This is a project our Prime Minister outlined in my mandate letter, so we are working extremely hard on this. It will be aimed at everyone interested in, or even curious about, learning their second official language.

[Translation]

That is a brief overview of the files that we are dealing with.

As I mentioned, I would also like to talk to you about the cross-Canada official languages consultations we undertook in 2016. They generated a lot of interest. We received more than 5,000 responses online, and we met with almost 350 people in 22 Canadian cities in the most open and transparent round-table discussions ever. So far, 21 of those 22 round tables have taken place, and many were broadcast on the Internet. Interested journalists also attended the discussions.

As you know, under the Official Languages Act, we have an obligation to conduct public consultations, but, contrary to what had been done in the past, we decided to make sure that journalists, invited guests and Internet participants were able to take part in the consultations live. That is why I referred to them as the most open and transparent round-table discussions ever.

In addition to those consultations, three meetings were held this month to reach national representative organizations. We wanted to have an open, frank and useful discussion, and that's what we did.

[English]

I personally led round tables from coast to coast to coast, including in St. John's, Newfoundland, while I was there for La Conférence ministérielle sur la francophonie canadienne; as well as in Victoria, B.C.; and just last week in Iqaluit, Nunavut; as well as in Montreal and Alfred in Ontario.

I have also had the chance to organize important round tables, which were not necessarily in the context of the official languages consultations, with stakeholders in Whitehorse, Halifax, Winnipeg and Quebec, amongst many other cities.

My parliamentary secretary, Randy Boissonnault, led many consultations as well, in which various cabinet colleagues of mine and local MPs have participated. For example, Minister Bibeau, Minister Brison, Minister Goodale, Minister Chagger, Minister Hehr, Minister LeBlanc and the Speaker of the House, Geoff Regan, participated in these different official languages consultations, which is very important to us because it shows the importance of having a pan-government approach to official languages.

The participants identified important matters of interest, such as, first, supporting the vitality of official language minority communities; second, increasing opportunities for Canadians of all ages to learn to speak their second official language; and third, bringing anglophones and francophones closer together.

Many of the comments highlighted the importance of official languages in our society. Let me quote some participants. The Director of the Quebec Anglophone Heritage Network told us:

The language of Canada is French. The language of Canada is English. Both of them. I like to think that I can go to Vancouver and meet Francophones there that I can speak French with, and vice versa, across Canada, and speak English here.

[Translation]

The Co-chair of Dialogue New Brunswick asked this question:

We forget we have many things in common. We share a history. We have accomplished things together. How can we get to know each other in such a way that we are not afraid, so that we are able to converse and discuss . . . ?

The questions generated a considerable exchange of ideas, and the participants' input will guide us in developing the action plan for official languages.

As you are aware, the current roadmap will end on March 31, 2018. Our action plan will be in effect the following day. The support of minority communities and our two official languages will continue to guide our actions, in keeping with our values.

Our official languages are a strength. Whenever I am asked to comment on why that is, I always say that, for our government, our two official languages are at the heart of the social contract on which our country's very foundation is built.

I hope that all Canadians — whether they are francophones in Quebec or anglophones elsewhere in Canada, whether they are Acadians, Franco-Saskatchewanians, Metis or people from other linguistic groups — will take an interest in our official languages. Having the support of all official languages allies is paramount in order to reaffirm the importance of those languages across the country. Together, I would like us to encourage all Canadians to become agents of change — citizens engaged in our great social contract.

I want to continue to work with your committee and all our government's partners to promote English and French across Canada.

I would now be happy to answer your questions. Thank you.

The Chair: Thank you, Minister. We witnessed that commitment to our two official languages on our trip to British Columbia, from October 2 to 7. We had the opportunity to meet with high-school students — youth of Asian and Punjabi descent — who were enrolled in French immersion schools. They told us that, in their eyes, learning French and being able to speak both official languages meant having a Canadian identity. We were rather taken aback to come across young people so full of wisdom at such a tender age.

Minister, Senator Gagné will ask the first question, followed by Senator Maltais.

Senator Gagné: Thank you again for accepting our invitation. I want to commend you for inviting your fellow cabinet members to take part in the consultations. Bilingualism and linguistic duality are not solely Canadian Heritage issues; they also involve the Senate, the Parliament of Canada, and each and every one of us. Kudos to you. I wanted to be sure to congratulate you on that.

My first question pertains to the tables on page 10 of your annual report. The paragraph at the top of the page reads as follows:

According to recent data from Statistics Canada, the Government of Canada's support over the last 10 years has resulted in a significant increase in the number of students enrolled in French immersion programs outside Quebec, which will boost the number francophiles in the country.

Student enrolment rose substantially between 2003-04 and 2013-14, and those figures appear in the report.

If the Government of Canada and Department of Canadian Heritage recognize that immersion programs give rise to a larger francophile population and francophone community overall, when can we expect the availability of French- language services to reflect those numbers?

Ms. Joly: That is a great question. Thank you.

I have already instructed my teams to start working on our action plan, and I have already told the stakeholders taking part in the various official languages consultations that the action plan would be based on two non-competing pillars. The two pillars are the vitality of official language minority communities and bilingualism. The goal is to enhance and promote the vitality of official language minority communities, while giving Canadians a genuine opportunity to live their lives in the official language of their choice, even in minority language communities, in order to raise bilingualism rates. It's a completely different approach.

On the subject of the availability of services in French, I had a chance to speak with my provincial counterparts in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, and I pressed them for assurance that they would demonstrate leadership on the issue, in carrying out their own mandate. As you said, that is the role of the Parliament of Canada, the Senate, and the House of Commons, but I also think it is the role of the provinces to deliver a range of key services to our various language communities. Under our action plan, then, we are trying to find ways to really partner with the provinces so that they, on their end, can improve their service offerings in French.

Generally, I work with my fellow ministers — whether it's Minister Brison, Minister Duclos, particularly on early childhood matters, or others — to promote support for the vitality of official language minority communities through a cross-government approach that obviously extends beyond the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Senator Gagné: I have a follow-up question. If we are trying to improve French-language communications and services, if we are trying to expand the francophone space, and if we are beginning to count francophiles as members of our communities, should we not change the regulations so that we can truly measure the demand? That demand represents more than just francophones whose first language is French.

Ms. Joly: You are probably referring to the regulations and the possible changes that could be made as part of the Canadian government's response. It's an issue that my colleague Minister Brison is particularly concerned about. He has repeatedly said that he is willing to consider a review of the regulations. I am working hard to support him in his review efforts so that, at the end of the day, regardless of the definition, francophile, francophone or "franco-curious'' individual — as my parliamentary secretary enjoys saying — the various official language minority communities are able to receive services in their language. No matter how we go about it, I will be satisfied as long as it has the same impact. That is what I care about, the impact, and I know that I have an ally on this issue in Mr. Brison.

Senator Maltais: Minister, I will leave it to my colleagues to ask you about your report. However, if I may say one thing, it is that you have done a lot in a year.

Ms. Joly: Thank you. That's kind of you to say.

Senator Maltais: As members of the committee, we are regularly out in the field, and we can feel your presence. We just came back from the Vancouver area, where we heard that the people appreciated your trip to Victoria, but that they have high expectations as a result.

When Scott Brison appeared before the committee, I asked him whether any reporting mechanisms were in place to account for the money spent on official languages. That is a criticism we heard from people all over the country. He told us that, unfortunately, none existed but that he would look into the matter during the year. It is a sensitive issue, education being in the provincial domain. You provide funding to francophone communities. What we have heard is that, in many cases, when the funding goes to the provinces, francophones have no idea whether that money has gone directly to their educational institutions or community organizations.

I am going to fire off a bunch of questions, and you can answer afterwards, if you wouldn't mind.

Ms. Joly: Go ahead. I will take notes.

Senator Maltais: Ever since I joined the Official Languages Committee, I have hated the term "second language.''

My country has two official languages: English and French. I am from the North Shore of Quebec, and I speak Montagnais. Now that is a second language. In my country, though, there are two official languages. When we are referring to the other language, we should say just that, "the other language'' or simply English or French, depending on which it is.

When we use the term "second language,'' we separate people into two categories, first-class citizens and second- class citizens. That is unacceptable under the Charter. Canada does not have two classes of citizens. It has English- speaking Canadians and French-speaking Canadians, and I feel very strongly about that.

I would like to briefly discuss the issue of CBC/Radio-Canada. Since taking office, you have allocated considerable funding to CBC/Radio-Canada. That's not a bad thing. But do you have any accountability mechanisms that allow you to see what investments the public broadcaster made to support francophone communities outside Quebec?

Ms. Joly: Thank you, senator. I will answer your questions with great pleasure. First, regarding accountability, all throughout our public consultations across the country, we heard — especially from various school boards — how important it is to promote greater transparency and better communication with the provinces to determine whether the money invested by the federal government is really being used to support various initiatives put forward by official language communities.

I am very sensitive to this issue. I am prepared to hear their point of view and to take it into consideration in the development of the action plan, and to continue the discussions with my colleague, Mr. Brison, on accountability. The objective, of course, is to ensure that, when investments are made in education, the people who are expecting to receive better services in education can receive those services.

That said, I believe that the message was well communicated during our federal-provincial-territorial meeting with my counterparts. I have noted a willingness among my counterparts to play a leadership role in official languages. One of the examples is Alberta, which is looking into the possibility of developing its first piece of legislation recognizing the rights of French linguistic minorities. Another example is Yukon, which is investing more than ever in official languages. I am also noticing that Ontario is showing leadership in that area. There is more support for official languages than before, but that is more true in some provinces than in others.

As for the second language issue, you may rest assured that, for me, both official languages are fundamental. In addition, you mentioned that you spoke Montagnais. In my mandate letter, the Prime Minister asked me to develop the first strategy for supporting the Aboriginal languages of our country's history. I plan on making inroads in that area, and I am working diligently on the issue. My team and I have begun discussions with Aboriginal chiefs on our response to that important aspect of my mandate letter. I thank you, as you are clearly an official languages ally.

Finally, concerning CBC/Radio-Canada, we are investing $675 million in the corporation over the next five years. In the context of that reinvestment, I have sent the corporation's management team three wishes. I want to remind you that CBC/Radio-Canada is independent from me and my department, but nothing prevents me from expressing wishes.

My first wish was that there be more local content in French and in English across the country, so that Canadians can navigate the content developed and produced by CBC/Radio-Canada's journalist teams. Second, I wished that CBC/Radio-Canada would be supported in its digital transition, so that investments would be made in technologies to put the corporation at the forefront, not only of technological changes, but also of changes in information consumption. My third wish was that CBC/Radio-Canada be able to invest in new teams to ensure its future. Currently, the average age in newsrooms is 51, and we want to make sure to have strong public broadcasting in both official languages across the country over the next 50 years.

That's the work we have done and the wishes we have expressed in a nutshell. Ultimately, the $675 million should be used specifically for those three priorities, I hope.

Senator Maltais: I want to remind you that, when it comes to official languages in Quebec, I have lived through the development of five pieces of legislation on official languages, from Bill 63 to current Bill 86. I know that it's not easy. I wish you the best of luck.

I may have other questions in the second round.

Senator McIntyre: Minister, thank you for being here and for your presentation. Earlier, you talked to us about you multi-annual plan and mentioned that consultations were launched in early summer 2016 and should be wrapping up this month. I understand that a questionnaire can also be completed online.

You have provided us with an overview of the consultations held thus far. Will the plan include additional investments for minority language education and official language training?

Ms. Joly: Our plan is an action plan rather than a simple roadmap. Throughout my consultations, various stakeholders have told me about four main priorities that sometimes represent new challenges different minority language communities face. The first priority, which concerns education — especially in early childhood — was raised by various communities. The second priority has to do with immigration, and the idea is to increase the population of various communities and get them into the official language, even in minority situations. Potentially being able to attract 4 per cent of francophone immigrants in minority situations is a wish that has been expressed often.

Third, there's also the entire issue of media and the sustainability of media in the official language of the minority community, at a time when a digital shift is happening and a drop is noted in the readership of various periodicals that are often key to the vitality of linguistic communities.

Fourth, and this will in part answer your question, there is the importance of community and school infrastructure, precisely to meet the demand of parents and children who are part of the school system in various official language communities.

Most certainly, in the context of developing our plan, where we are working very hard to come up with a robust response when it comes to the importance of official languages, both to support the vitality of linguistic communities and to support bilingualism, it is clear that those four aspects will be part of our plan.

Senator McIntyre: We are all looking forward to the release of the plan.

I have another question. The Senate committee went to Vancouver and Victoria in early October to look into the challenges related to access to French schools and French immersion programs in British Columbia. I must say that, during our stay, a number of witnesses talked about the lack of access to French immersion programs in British Columbia and elsewhere in Canada. All that was part of the study that culminated in the report entitled Aiming Higher: Increasing bilingualism of our Canadian youth.

The main arguments put forth by the witnesses featured some of the aspects I remember very well: lack of space, shortage of qualified teachers and lack of resources. They also noted that funding for programs is not keeping pace with enrolment. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Ms. Joly: Of course. First, it goes without saying that education is still a provincial responsibility, and that the federal government can be a partner in providing support for promoting the vitality of linguistic communities. I will answer your question from various perspectives.

The first perspective is the need in terms of community and school infrastructure. I partially answered your question about the federal government potentially being a better partner for developing different community and school infrastructure. That is certainly a point we have heard.

Second, there is the fact that we can work with various school boards to ensure that, as long as financial support is provided, it is truly done for the benefit of education. That somewhat answers Senator Maltais' earlier question. It's something we have heard and it is a point that, in my opinion, will be very important in the context of my negotiations with different provinces. Those negotiations will be held over the course of next year.

We also heard about the shortage of teachers. Services were often not provided owing to that shortage. The federal government can definitely be a catalyst for improving the mobility of French-language teachers. That is a scenario we are looking into to ultimately improve the government response — whether we are talking about the provincial government or the federal government — to meet the needs of parents and children.

The Chair: Senator Gagné had a question complementary to the one asked by Senator McIntyre.

Senator Gagné: This is related to Senator McIntyre's first question. You talked about, maybe not priorities, but topics of interest for the next plan. You mentioned early childhood, immigration, media and school infrastructure. You did not mention post-secondary education. I would like to hear you talk about that. The reason I am bringing this up is that young university students we met in Vancouver and in Victoria told us about one of the major challenges they are facing, which is precisely access to post-secondary education in French. That is the situation in British Columbia. I am from Manitoba, and I also worked in post-secondary education throughout my career, so I am aware of the challenges in terms of access to education.

I just wanted to know whether that was also one of the topics of interest you mentioned.

Ms. Joly: When I talked about early childhood and education, post-secondary education was included, as well. What we have heard — and this is interesting — is that we now have the first generation that has experienced the importance of the Official Languages Act and has, therefore, seen the impacts of that piece of legislation. So there are young people in their thirties who can talk about the range of services provided over a lifetime. Of course, we have been hearing about the importance of post-secondary education, and even the importance of supporting community initiatives once people enter the workforce, so that they can live in the official language of their choice in the labour market.

We can definitely work on developing the supply of services at the post-secondary level. Jean-Pierre, who is here, is reminding me of relevant figures. We are already providing $35.6 million a year for the post-secondary education sector. Various projects are currently under discussion. They range from a Franco-Ontarian university to projects presented by the communities — and we will study them.

Senator Mockler: I also want to say thank you, minister. When you went through New Brunswick, I had an opportunity to talk to stakeholders, and they liked the approach and the vision you are currently fine-tuning to draw attention to the importance of the roadmap, or whatever its new name will be.

I would be remiss not to specify that I am certainly speaking as a senator from New Brunswick and as a Canadian, but first and foremost as a senator from New Brunswick. Back home, our stakeholders always have a good relationship with the senior officials, and I want to use this opportunity to congratulate them.

Ms. Joly: I want to add my voice to yours. Our senior officials are very good. Thank you, Hubert and Jean-Pierre.

Senator Mockler: It's because we are the best country in the world, right? I would like to bring up three or four issues. You have my support when it comes to community infrastructure. That is extremely important if we want to develop our communities and ensure that our small communities, like large ones, are in touch with tomorrow's challenges. One of the major challenges of tomorrow is definitely a bilingual workforce.

That said, I know that a number of our stakeholders, without naming them all, play an important and sometimes crucial role. In that regard, I would like to draw your attention to the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, which has played a role in the past. I hope we will continue to work with that association and with other stakeholders, so that those people can play a role in training a bilingual workforce. Can you tell us a bit about where the government wants to go with that project?

Ms. Joly: I cannot talk to you about the project itself. What I can say is that we want to go back to a more comprehensive approach to official languages and work less in silos. In other words, we want to ensure that different departments that have responsibilities in official languages can work together to develop a plan that could then be negotiated with various provinces. It could certainly be negotiated with Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada for Quebec regions, or with Employment and Social Development Canada — basically, with various departments — so that we can discuss official languages based on Canadians' needs.

That was the approach of the Dion plan when the first plan on official languages was developed. Under the circumstances, it shows how much of a leadership role our government plays in this area. However, it also shows the philosophical approach of a liberal government that cares about official languages and has the desire to invest in the different needs of Canadians.

With my team, I have worked on the vision of a social contract, as I think that is the best way to express it. I think that the country's social contract is based on three aspects. The first is the issue of official languages — the importance of French and English. Second is the issue of multiculturalism — support for the heritage of various ethnic communities. The third aspect, which we as a government reaffirm a lot, is the importance of reconciliation with our Aboriginal peoples.

I know that I am giving a very broad answer to a more specific question, but I want to give you the perspective of our vision concerning our role and our next action plan.

Senator Mockler: Minister, what would you recommend to partners such as the ones I just mentioned? What role could those people or associations play within your vision?

Ms. Joly: Generally speaking, it is essential that they be able to express their needs and ideas. Of course, we have to make sure that my parliamentary secretary, our departmental team and I can meet with them.

Since those people are involved in economic development, it is important that they be able to discuss the role they can play with the representatives of the regional agency. That's fundamental because, as I said, it's a government-wide and pan-institutional approach.

Senator Mockler: I like the fact that your approach is philosophical, but it also has to be practical.

Ms. Joly: Exactly. My biggest challenge is to take into account ideas and to move forward with them. I would say that I am a determined woman, senator.

Senator Mockler: Your career clearly demonstrates that. I would like to talk about another major challenge — demographics. I had an opportunity to present to you the work published by the Université de Moncton, under the leadership of Donald Savoie. We know that challenges must be addressed in the Atlantic regions when it comes to population aging. In the Atlantic regions, the New Brunswick statistics on population aging are the highest.

In preparation for what is coming in terms of labour force and youth, what would be the way to maintain the Canada-wide percentage in small provinces like mine, which are struggling with population aging and economic challenges?

Ms. Joly: That is a very good question. We really considered that issue at our federal-provincial-territorial conference. My New Brunswick counterpart, Francine Landry, was actually very concerned about that issue.

We have reiterated our desire to reach the 4 per cent target in terms of francophone immigration in minority communities, but a number of provinces are asking for more. That was something I discussed for a long time with my colleague, John McCallum, and I know that he wants to promote the importance of francophonie outside Quebec.

That's why we reinstated the Mobilité francophone program together last spring. In an effort to move forward, we've been working on different options. I hope these options will be announced in the coming weeks.

The Chair: Minister Joly, before moving on to the second round of questions, I want to ask you about the Dion plan. In your response to our report entitled Aiming Higher: Increasing bilingualism of our Canadian youth, which you provided last June, you said you supported the overall vision of the report. You even said the report could serve as a basis for the federal government's new official languages plan.

However, you didn't indicate any specific target. How do you plan to increase the number of bilingual youth? I see that, in 2003, 24 per cent of youth aged 15 to 19 were bilingual. In 2011, the proportion was 22.6 per cent. Therefore, the number of bilingual youth aged 15 to 19 decreased. In 2003, when 24 per cent of youth were bilingual, the Dion plan stated that the goal was to double the number of bilingual youth to 50 per cent in 2013.

Obviously, Minister Joly, we're far from reaching that goal. We even fall short of the 2003 goal, when the proportion was 24 per cent. Do you intend to establish a specific and measurable goal to increase proficiency in the official languages, particularly among young Canadians?

Ms. Joly: Thank you for the question, Senator Tardif. It's very relevant. First, clearly the bilingualism issue is important to us. In our election platform, which led to my mandate letter, I was asked to work on modern solutions for the bilingualism issue.

We're currently working on creating a new online English and French learning program. The service doesn't currently exist. In light of the circumstances, the prime minister has asked me to launch this new service. It will be a first, and I'm very proud. I hope the delivery of an online program will help address the modern reality of citizens' needs. People will be able to teach themselves to speak the second official language. I hope that, this way, the new service will help reaffirm that famous social contract I mentioned.

I would also say the drop in the bilingualism rate is based on the fact that the previous government took a different approach to official languages, which could certainly have resulted in a decrease in bilingualism.

In short, if we want to create a new action plan that takes into account the vitality of linguistic communities and the bilingualism issue, the delivery of online services to help people learn the second official language will be one of the proposed measures to support bilingualism.

The Chair: Thank you for your answer, Minister Joly. Certainly, the promotion of bilingualism also largely depends on the vitality of francophone minority communities. There needs to be people with whom we can speak the language we're learning.

Ms. Joly: I would like to add a comment. It will also depend on the work done by the provinces. It's my job to push my provincial counterparts and work with them so they can invest in providing educational services.

The Chair: We heard a number of times, in British Columbia, about the importance of political leadership at the provincial and federal level.

Senator Gagné: Part VII of the Official Languages Act, which falls under Canadian Heritage's responsibility, was amended over 10 years ago. When you received your mandate letter, the prime minister also asked you to work with the president of the Treasury Board on ensuring that federal services are provided in accordance with the act.

You mentioned the work you carried out with your colleagues on the matter. I'm trying to gain a better understanding of your role. You have an oversight and coordination role, or you do a bit of both. Is that correct?

Ms. Joly: I take on different roles. The first is a leadership and conductor role to remind my colleagues of the importance of official languages. I work with them to make gains for the communities and the general public. However, they're responsible for ensuring compliance with the Official Languages Act.

I would also say that my role is to create the new action plan that will have a significant impact in the field. To create the plan, I must work with different colleagues. I spoke to you about the online service, which is part of my mandate letter. You referred to my work with Scott Brison, the president of the Treasury Board. I'm also working with my colleague, Judy Wilson-Raybould, on reinstating the court challenges program. We're looking at the possibility of including Part VII of the Official Languages Act in this famous program so that our approach respects language rights in the country. I want to add that the previous government cut this program.

Senator Gagné: I want to focus on the concept related to Part VII, the positive measures issue. How do you define a positive measure? Can you provide a few examples of positive measures adopted by your department?

Ms. Joly: Certainly. I mentioned the important elements earlier in my remarks, namely, the Mobilité francophone program, which includes the francophone significant benefit program, and the reinstatement of the French program at the Royal Military College Saint-Jean. There's also the fact that we can take steps at the judicial level and that the highest court in the country recognizes the importance of having bilingual judges on the bench to hear cases in French.

These government decisions have a strong impact on the different communities in terms of access to justice or the importance of bilingualism in the country. However, they also have a strong impact in that they provide encouragement, as stated by the Commissioner of Official Languages, to the country's ambitious legal experts so they can access the benches of Canada's highest court on the basis of bilingualism.

Concerning the Royal Military College Saint-Jean, it's important for the officers to speak both official languages. It's also important to place value on the official languages in the different jobs and sectors. By doing so, we ultimately enhance the vitality of linguistic communities.

Senator Maltais: I had often visited British Columbia, but I had never had as much involvement with francophones as I had during our visit. People are eager to learn about Quebec, in particular. However, the Québécois are like me. They don't know the francophones of British Columbia. Is there a way, either through Radio-Canada or by pairing primary or secondary schools in Quebec with these people, for them to get to know each other better?

I also want to talk about Bill S-209. I'm responsible for addressing it in the House in the coming weeks. If it hadn't been for the softwood lumber crisis, the bill would have already been addressed.

What do you think about it?

Ms. Joly: First, with regard to the programs, it's a matter of knowing the different realities across the country. I think the 150th anniversary will be an important occasion to celebrate a milestone in our history and to help us learn about the different realities in the country. Also, for the 150th anniversary, immersion program will be implemented.

For the 150th anniversary of Confederation, we've invested $200 million in different programs that will address our country's history, the importance of youth, diversity, inclusion, and reconciliation with the Aboriginal peoples. There will also be different programs to improve people's knowledge of our country and of the anglophone and francophone reality.

I touched on Bill-209 in my response to the senator. Mr. Brison has said a number of times that he's prepared to review the regulations. I said that, no matter how we proceed, the most important thing was the impact. That's what we need to keep in mind for this bill. You can count on me to work with Minister Brison on the services provided in both official languages across the country.

Senator Mockler: Minister Joly, I have two quick questions.

Another case that's being discussed and that involves us is the Société Santé en français, which plays a very important role and a diametrically opposite role, if we look from east to west and south to north. My question is the following. How do you verify that the funds transferred to the provinces and territories are indeed used to teach the minority language and learn the second language?

Also, is it possible that provincial and territorial governments or school boards use the money for purposes other than those indicated in your department's directive?

Ms. Joly: That's a good question.

This consideration was mentioned a number of times by different stakeholders across the country. When I tell you we want our plan to focus on supporting the vitality of linguistic communities and bilingualism, we want to make sure the goals are clear and that, when we approach the provinces, we can agree on how to achieve clear goals. For example, if we allocate money to the language minority community for education purposes, we make sure the money is not necessarily spent on supporting bilingualism, or vice versa.

As a federal government that wants to work with the provinces, we've reignited a dialogue with the provinces. It's important for us to respect the different jurisdictions. Education and health fall under provincial jurisdiction, even though the government has a role to play, particularly in official languages, to show leadership and emphasize the importance of the social contract I mentioned several times today. The Dion plan takes precisely that holistic approach. I referred to education and economic development. Of course, health is part of the holistic approach. It needs to be part of our plan.

The goal will also be to seek, I hope, more support to meet all the different needs. However, we must ensure we support the main priorities because not all needs can be met. That said, in the end, we can certainly make things better for official language communities and help improve bilingualism in the country by working very hard.

The Chair: Minister Joly, we wanted to respect your schedule.

Ms. Joly: Thank you. I appreciate it, and I respect yours as well.

The Chair: On behalf of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, thank you for being here today. It's your second visit.

Ms. Joly: I'm sure it won't be my last.

The Chair: I hope not, Minister Joly. We've been very fortunate in the past few months. I also want to thank Mr. Gauthier and Mr. Lussier for being here. Thank you for taking concrete steps to share your commitment to the two official languages of our country. We want to thank you for that. We know you care about the francophonie, not only the francophonie in minority communities, but also anglophones in minority communities in Quebec. Together, we can work on creating a good action plan that provides, I believe, a new vision and a new way to promote bilingualism in Canada and develop official language minority communities.

Thank you, Minister Joly.

Ms. Joly: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you everyone. It has been a pleasure.

(The committee adjourned.)

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