Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue No. 40 - Minutes of Proceedings - April 8, 2019
OTTAWA, Monday, April 8, 2019
(72)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 11 a.m., in room W120, 1 Wellington St., the chair, the Honourable Gwen Boniface, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Boisvenu, Boniface, Busson, Gold, Griffin, Jaffer, McIntyre, McPhedran, Oh, Plett, Pratte, Richards and Wells (13).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Kutcher (1).
In attendance: Christina Yeung and Ariel Shapiro, Analyst, Parliament Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, December 11, 2018, the committee continued its consideration of Bill C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearms. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 36.)
WITNESSES:
Public Safety Canada:
Randall Koops, Director General, Policing Policy.
Royal Canadian Mounted Police:
Robert Mackinnon, Director, Firearms Business Improvement Directorate.
Department of Justice Canada:
Alexandra Budgell, Team Leader and Senior Counsel;
Paula Clarke, Counsel.
The chair made a statement
The officials were invited to remain at the table and, from time to time, answer questions.
It was agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearms.
It was agreed that the title stand postponed.
It was agreed that clause 1 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Plett moved:
That Bill C-71 be amended in clause 2, on page 2,
(a) by replacing lines 4 to 10 with the following:
"2 (1) Subsection 5(2) of the Act is amended by strik-''; and
(b) by replacing line 32 with the following:
"(2) Section 5 of the Act is amended by adding the''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Griffin — 1
It was agreed that clause 2 as amended carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Griffin, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Oh, Plett, Wells — 3
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, McIntyre, Richards — 3
The chair asked whether clause 4 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Griffin moved:
That Bill C-71 be amended in clause 4, on page 7, by adding the following after line 31:
"(2.4) An individual who holds a license authorizing the individual to possess restricted firearms or handguns referred to in subsection 12(6.1) must, if the license is renewed, be authorized to transport them within the individual's province of residence to and from a business that holds a license authorizing it to repair or appraise prohibited firearms or restricted firearms.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Griffin, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
The chair asked whether clause 4 as amended shall carry.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Griffin, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Jaffer, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 7
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that clause 5 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 6 shall carry.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived.
It was agreed that clause 7 carry, on division.
At 11:48 a.m., the committee suspended.
At 11:56 a.m., the committee resumed.
It was agreed that clause 8 be negatived.
It was agreed that clause 9 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 10 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 11 carry, on division.
The Honourable Senator Plett moved:
That Bill C-71 be amended on page 10 by adding the following after line 21:
"11.1 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 94:
94.1 (1) The Commissioner shall provide to the Minister, no later than February 1 of each year, a written report for the immediately preceding calendar year that sets out the decisions and recommendations made by the Commissioner regarding whether a firearm is a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, or a non-restricted firearm, the reasons for those decisions or recommendations, and the actual or anticipated costs to firearms owners and businesses of those decisions and recommendations.
(2) The Federal minister shall cause each report received under subsection (1) to be tabled before each House of Parliament on any of the first 15 days on which that House is sitting after the federal Minister receives it.''
After debate, the Honourable Senator Pratte moved that the motion in amendment be amended by removing the words "
"and the actual or anticipated costs to firearms owners and businesses of those decisions and recommendations.''
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Griffin — 1
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment that the new clause 11.1 carry, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Griffin, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that clause 12 stand.
The chair asked whether clause 13 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Plett moved:
That Bill C-71 be amended in clause 13,
(a) on page 10, by replacing line 37 with the following:
"(m) regulating, except in respect of a business, the keeping, transmission and destruc-''; and
(b) on page 11, by replacing lines 3 to 7 with the following:
"(3) Paragraph 117(n) of the Act is repealed.
(4) Paragraph 117(o) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(o) creating offences consisting of contraventions of the regulations made under paragraph (d), (e), (f), (g), (i), (j), (k.1), (k.2), (l), or (m);
(5) Paragraph 117(w) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(w) prescribing anything that, by any provision of this Act except section 58.1, is to be prescribed by regulation.
13.1 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 117:
117.1 (1) The Governor in Council, on recommendation of the federal Minister after consultation with firearms-related businesses, may make regulations
(a) regulating, in respect of a business, the keeping and destruction of records in relation to firearms, prohibited weapons, restricted weapons, prohibited devices and prohibited ammunition;
(b) regulating the keeping and destruction of records by businesses in relation to ammunition;
(c) regulating the transmission of records under paragraph 58.1(1)(c) by a business to a prescribed official;
(d) prescribing anything under section 58.1 that is to be prescribed by regulation; and
(e) creating offences consisting of contraventions of the regulations made under paragraphs (a) to (d).
(2) The federal Minister shall, no later than February 1 of each year,
(a) prepare a report that sets out the consultations referred to in paragraph (1) that occurred during the immediately preceding calendar year; and
(b) cause that report to be tabled before each House of Parliament on any of the first 15 days on which that House sits after the report is completed.''
At 12:28 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 12:43 p.m., the committee resumed.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Griffin — 2
It was agreed that clause 13 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 12 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 14 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 15 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 16 shall carry.
After debate, the Honourable Senator McPhedran moved:
That Bill C-71 be amended in clause 16, on page 11,
(a) by replacing line 25 with the following:
"16 (1) The definition non-restricted firearm in subsec-''; and
(b) by adding the following after line 30:
"(2) Paragraph (a) of the definition prohibited firearm in subsection 84(1) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(a) a handgun, other than a handgun that is prescribed for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,''
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Jaffer, McPhedran — 2
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Griffin, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Gold, McIntyre, Pratte — 3
The Honourable Senator Griffin moved:
That Bill C-71 be amended in clause 16, on page 11, by replacing line 28 with the following:
"non-restricted firearm means any firearm that the Commissioner of Firearms may, by order, designate as a non-restricted firearm, as well as any firearm that is neither a''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Griffin, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Jaffer, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
The chair asked whether clause 16, as amended, shall carry.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Busson, Gold, Griffin, Jaffer, Pratte — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Wells — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Richards — 1
It was agreed that clause 17 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 18 shall carry.
At 1:24 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 1:39 p.m., the committee resumed.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote.
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Busson, Gold, Griffin, Jaffer, Pratte — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that clause 19 be negatived.
It was agreed that clause 20 be negatived.
It was agreed that clause 21 be negatived.
Pursuant to rule 10(5) it was agreed to return and reconsider clause 1.
It was agreed that clause 1 be negatived.
It was agreed that clause 22 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 23 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 24 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 25 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 26 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 27 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 28 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 29 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 30 carry, on division.
It was agreed that the title carry, on division.
It was agreed that the bill, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Griffin moved that an observation be appended to the report.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Griffin, McIntyre, Oh, Plett, Richards, Wells — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Busson, Gold, Jaffer, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that the chair report the bill, as amended, with observations to the chamber.
At 2 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Mark Palmer
Clerk of the Committee