Proceedings of the Subcommittee on
Veterans Affairs
Issue No. 8 - Evidence - May 3, 2017
OTTAWA, Wednesday, May 3, 2017
The Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 12:01 p.m. to study issues relating to creating a defined, professional and consistent system for veterans as they leave the Canadian Armed Forces.
Senator Mobina S. B. Jaffer (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Joining us today is Kevin Pittman, clerk of the committee, and Havi Echenberg, our Library of Parliament analyst. I am Senator Mobina Jaffer, and I am chair of the committee. I would kindly ask senators to introduce themselves.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Hello. My name is Jean-Guy Dagenais. I'm vice-chair of the committee and a senator from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Boniface: I'm Gwen Boniface from Ontario.
Senator Lang: Senator Dan Lang from Yukon.
[Translation]
The Chair: The Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs was given a mandate to examine and report on issues relating to creating a defined, professional and consistent system for veterans as they leave the Canadian Armed Forces.
[English]
We are pleased to welcome today Richard Blackwolf, National President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans; Michael L. Blais, President and Founder of Canadian Veterans Advocacy; and Ray McInnis, Director, Service Bureau. You have done great work in these areas. That is why we were anxious to speak to you. We welcome you.
The three organizations you appear on behalf of today are represented on the Service Excellence Advisory Group to the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Their mandate is to provide the minister with recommendations to address gaps that create barriers for the successful transition and reestablishment of Canadian Armed Forces veterans, RCMP members and their families to a purposeful civilian life, and recommendations to address gaps in supports and services for our traditional veterans, the aging core of modern-day veterans, RCMP members and their families, to ensure they receive the services and supports they need.
I would like to welcome you all. I understand that Mr. Blais will start.
Michael L. Blais, President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy: Esteemed senators, thank you for inviting the Canadian Veterans Advocacy to testify on transition. We are a consultation-based advocacy group serving only the wounded and their families. Consequently, during the past six years we have engaged a multitude of seriously disabled solders, airmen, sailors and their spouses, as they transitioned through the labyrinth of complexities between the Department of National Defence, Veterans Affairs Canada, the military umbrella and, as a newly disabled Canadian, a civilian life never envisioned.
I am quite certain other witnesses will dwell on these complexities and, cognizant of the limited time and scope of the issue, I would like to focus on improvements that can be addressed between DND and Veterans Affairs collaboratively and, equally important, establish policies to ensure transition treatment continuity when they are repatriated to their communities.
The Chief of the Defence Staff recently implemented substantial reforms in reference to his evolving vision on transition. There have been changes in leadership and command structure to transform the maligned Joint Personnel Support Units into a more comprehensive entity capable of providing quality services bereft of the problems that have plagued transition efforts through conception, implementation and the consequences therein. Unfortunately, insufficient time has passed to assess, and the problems hiring qualified mental health staff is and will create substantial obstacles.
This is a fundamental problem. DND's inability to hire a sufficient number of mental health professionals such as psychiatrists, psychologists and counsellors to serve on the isolated bases where most of our combat-orientated units are congregated is the root problem. I do not believe this is a matter of just offering financial incentives. As we have addressed this concern at the civilian level, there are other obstructive issues at play.
I spoke at the Ontario Psychological Association meeting in Toronto on military mental health. Many mental health professionals, psychologists and psychiatrists, are not trained in the nuances of war or violent peacekeeping. Our goal was to introduce them to the military culture, to dispel unwarranted fears and stigmas, to encourage them to train from within, to establish a relationship with Veterans Affairs Canada, inclusive of a network of professionals province-wide who, having embraced their sacred obligation, are willing to accord respite for the wounded wife and family within the Veterans Affairs Canada construct in a seamless and comprehensive manner through transition and the repatriation process.
I believe the same level of proactive engagement is formally required by DND and Veterans Affairs and that if they reached out, perhaps collectively to save expense, to the mental health associations and started talking about the extensive mental and physical trauma Canada's sons and daughters have experienced in Afghanistan and elsewhere and, simply put, tell them we need their help, they would rally. It is not enough to post an offer of employment. We are and have been deficient in these assets for years. The ongoing and ever-present risk of catastrophic consequences through delays or insufficient mental health resources through transition is clear and present. It is the government's responsibility to engage, to convince these required professionals to embrace their sacred obligation to the wounded by speaking to them at or organizing mission-specific conventions about military culture, about the severity of the wounds Canada's sons and daughters have sustained, about how desperately we need them to rally behind the wounded and provide expedient services to ensure the care provided through transition is perpetuated afterwards without harmful delays and unnecessary mental duress.
Ideally, this initiative would foster direct relationships and liaisons between DND and Veterans Affairs and the respective professional communities across Canada. We must ensure through transition that when transition is over, when the veteran and his spouse and family are repatriated to their community of choice, there is a doctor, a pain specialist, a psychiatrist or a psychologist waiting and that, when possible, local peer support elements are brought into play.
I would speak briefly to Veterans Affairs Canada's contribution to the transition process. Effective collaboration and formal information sharing protocols between DND and Veterans Affairs Canada are vital to ensure Veterans Affairs Canada's administrative requisites are conducted prior to release in a comprehensive manner; that the veteran is identified as a VAC client; and that preparations are undertaken at the community level by Veterans Affairs Canada to ensure appropriate medical professionals are identified locally to ensure treatment.
One of the greatest obstacles, both in transition and post-release, was complexities, paperwork and extended periods between determination of eligibility, status and the provision of a subsequent sacrifice award or, as promised in the future, commencement of the monthly life pension. This invariably results in grave financial discord and withheld, desperately required funds that would have assisted with transition due to an unforecasted medical release bereft of sufficient time to prepare by saving and a forced relocation to somewhere far from the military community or the services that supported them through transition. As we speak to transition, it is vital that we establish mechanisms that will provide expedient continuity of care and that full elements of support are in place by Veterans Affairs Canada prior to release to facilitate seamless transition.
I am cognizant of both governments' efforts to "streamline'' complexities. However, I think the most significant impact on transitionary improvements will be attained when the front-line staff declared redundant during the decade of darkness have been rehired, retrained and redeployed. I believe this has been a major reason of discontent within the veterans' community, both in transition and in general. The level of proficiency required to provide comprehensive, multi-level services for complex war wounds is not "hire off the shelf,'' and appropriate training is required. So far, 250 recent hires were budgeted under Minister O'Toole. Hundreds of additional hires were promised by this current government. All, every one of them, are desperately required if we are to accord expedient and comprehensive service both in transition and through our efforts to ensure transition protocols are comprehensive post-transition.
Reducing complexities is ongoing, but regardless of our success at that level, without adequate numbers of staff at Veterans Affairs Canada to proficiently process claims in an expedient manner and to provide Veterans Affairs Canada-related services while transitioning and beyond, the delays and frustrations will prevail unabated.
I would also note as a veteran of an era where mental health concerns with weakness, disdain and "suck it up, buttercup'' mentalities, I have seen a remarkable transformation occurring over the past five years. I believe this is the result of a dedicated focus on increasing awareness on mental health or military mental health and well-being issues. Stigma eradication efforts and other proactive initiatives have the potential to have a significant, positive impact on the transitionary services we are speaking of today.
Thank you. I am looking forward to the questions you might entertain on what I have said or other areas of transition that, due to time constraints, there was no time for me to speak to.
The Chair: Thank you very much for your presentation.
We will now hear from Mr. Richard Blackwolf, National President of the Canadian Aboriginal Veterans. Welcome, Mr. Blackwolf.
Richard Blackwolf, National President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans: Thank you, madam chair.
Honourable senators, thank you for your invitation and the opportunity to appear before this respected subcommittee today.
I am the National President of the Canadian Aboriginal Veterans Association. Our association is in its thirty-ninth year of representing and advocating for Canadian Aboriginal veterans at the national level. The CAV communicates nationally and internationally by the CAV national website, which has surpassed 480,000 visits. The CAV maintains 20 groups on social media to inform our members and to be informed by them of any problems they are experiencing and the events of interest to veterans in their part of Canada.
With regard to Canadian Aboriginal Veterans past stakeholder advocacy, the CAV has made suggestions for the reduction in wait time invoked by the interface between the military records archives and Veterans Affairs Canada. One suggestion was to have a Veterans Affairs Canada office on all Canadian Armed Forces bases in order to create a direct point of contact with Veterans Affairs Canada.
The second suggestion was for an amendment to the Privacy Act to allow speedier transfer of personnel records through a seamless interface between the military records archives and Veterans Affairs Canada.
The third suggestion was for the establishment of a direct link at the executive level between the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada.
We are delighted that the Minister of Veterans Affairs is also the Associate Minister of National Defence.
To aid the Senate Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs' study, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans makes the following submission. It is well understood there are trained military staff at all Canadian Armed Forces recruiting centres across Canada. Canadian Forces members receive pre-deployment training on all aspects of recruiting before they become a staff member at a Canadian Forces recruiting centre.
The CAV makes the following suggestions in the format of a tasking for the development of a defined, professional and consistent system of release from Canadian Armed Forces.
We recommend that the Canadian Armed Forces create a complete set of purpose-designed release centres in the naval divisions, land forces divisions and air force wings across Canada; and establish a central training facility to provide professional training for army, navy and air force personnel who will become the staff members at a Canadian Armed Forces release centre.
The central training facility's primary function would be to provide professional, comprehensive release centre staff training that includes all the procedures and categories of release from the Canadian Armed Forces. The central training facility's secondary function would be to provide training in Veterans Affairs Canada's programs, procedures and My VAC Account website navigation and the setup of a My VAC Account.
The Veterans Affairs elements would be taught by Veterans Affairs Canada personnel.
The CAV's vision of Canadian Armed Forces release centres is that there is an "out routine'' carried out by all military personnel when they are leaving the Canadian Armed Forces. The CAV's suggestion is to expand the "out routine'' to include time at a Canadian Armed Forces release centre.
The Canadian Armed Forces release centre's primary task would be to provide materials, specific programs and types of training relevant to each category of release.
The Canadian Armed Forces release centre's main responsibility in conjunction with Veterans Affairs Canada would be to develop a personalized program of education and types of training well suited to the individual service member's transition path to civilian life.
The Canadian Armed Forces release centre's personalized programs would include the service member reviewing and signing off his or her deployment record to ensure that all types of work and all activities are clearly recorded. Second, review and sign off his or her medical records to ensure that all injuries or illnesses over their enrolment period have been recorded, and clear statements of when, where and how an injury occurred are also recorded.
Veterans Affairs Canada, first interview: while a service member is still in the Canadian Armed Forces awaiting release, to be informed of the VAC training programs they are eligible to start immediately.
Veterans Affairs Canada, second interview: to be informed which VAC benefits and training programs the veteran is qualified to receive and partake in after his or her release.
Veterans Affairs Canada third interview: service member training on the navigation of the My VAC Account website and the creation of a My VAC Account.
We recommend that a Canadian Armed Forces identification card be issued to each individual prior to the day of release: side one, a photo and certification of military service; side two, Veterans Affairs registration number, personal identification information and the veteran's encoded My VAC Account information that can be swiped at any Veterans Affairs Canada office or Service Canada office.
CAV strongly recommends that the official release date be set as the date that the transitioning service member receives the first pension or VAC benefits payment to avoid Phoenix and other payment system problems.
In closing, Veterans Affairs Canada is seen by many veterans as a glossy storefront with an insurance company lurking behind, operating as an insurance company does, to minimize losses.
Proof of the insurance company style operation is the manner in which the adjudication of claims is processed, a process that requires the veteran applicants to go through an entire re-evaluation of their military occupation record, military medical records and a physical examination by a Veterans Affairs Canada doctor.
The Veterans Affairs Canada's adjudication of veterans' claims is deemed to be negatively biased from the onset because the veteran applicants' supporting submissions are largely ignored and are not given the benefit of the doubt, and the percentage awards are minimized.
In the absence of political will, Veterans Affairs Canada's corporate culture and style of operations has changed little since its 1944 inception and has remained unaffected through many changes of government and the April 2007 Veterans Bill of Rights.
The development of political will, resulting in a positive evolution of the VAC corporate culture and style of operations, including full compliance with the Veterans Bill of Rights, will only come about through external pressure created when the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman and the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces are removed from the Departments of Veterans Affairs, National Defence Canada, with the ombudsmen having full autonomy, right to subpoena, and reporting directly to Parliament.
Thank you, honourable senators, for your interest and kind attention.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Blackwolf.
We will go on to Mr. Ray McInnis from the Royal Canadian Legion. Thank you for being here.
Ray McInnis, Director, Service Bureau, Royal Canadian Legion: Good afternoon. It is a great pleasure to appear in front of your committee once again. On behalf of the Dominion President of the Royal Canadian Legion, David Flannigan, we offer our support to your continuing advocacy on behalf of veterans of all ages and their families. Thank you for the work you do for our veterans and their families.
I am Director of the Dominion Command Service Bureau. I am a retired chief warrant officer and served for almost 34 years.
The Legion has been assisting veterans and their families since 1926 through legislative mandate in both the Pension Act and the New Veterans Charter. The positive transition to life after release is essential for all Canadian Forces members, whether they be regular or reserve, and for their families as well, as they, too, are impacted by this adjustment.
The experience of life after release is different and unique for each veteran. Some voluntarily leave after a short period of service, some are single, some have young families and some are in need of employment. Others retire after many years of service with very good financial security. Some members who retire are injured in service to their country and they must make this transition under difficult circumstances. Therefore, it is important that the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada put in place complementary policies, practices and programs supported by a sustainable research program with the goal of enabling a healthy transition of all veterans and their families through this change in their life course. The transition process needs to be defined, professional and effective.
We have been advocating for a veteran's ID card for every releasing member and veteran in Canada that not only recognizes their service but also enables Veterans Affairs Canada to proactively follow up with them after release. This is of priority now as Budget 2017 promises two new benefits: career transition services, and veterans' education and training benefits that are open to all veterans, not just veterans with a disability claim with Veterans Affairs Canada.
The Royal Canadian Legion is the only veteran service organization that assists veterans and their families with representation to Veterans Affairs Canada and the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. The Legion's advocacy program is core to our mission. Our security-cleared, trained professional command service officers are located across the country and provide free assistance to veterans and their families with obtaining benefits and services from the government.
Please note, you do not have to be a Legion member to avail yourself of our services. Through legislation, the Legion has access to service health records and departmental files to provide comprehensive yet independent representation at no cost. Last year, our service officers prepared and represented disability claims on behalf of over 3,000 veterans to both VAC and the VRAB.
Legion branches offer camaraderie and in many cases are the cornerstones of Canadian towns and communities. As part of our efforts to help veterans transition to civilian life, the Legion, in cooperation with the Canadian Armed Forces Depart with Dignity program, offers a free, one-year membership to all retired forces members who are not yet a Legion member. As they move into a new phase of life, being a Legion member is a great way to stay connected to the military family, to honour and to support those who served and sacrificed, and to strengthen your communities.
The impact that military service has on our sailors, soldiers, airmen and airwomen often makes the transition back to civilian life challenging. Our experience from the Veterans Transition Program provides evidence that some veterans and their families feel isolated and need a welcome home in a very real way. The Veterans Transition Program, the only program of its kind in Canada, assists former members of the Canadian Forces and the RCMP in their transition to civilian life. This program was developed to address the invisible wounds of our soldiers so that they can function and have healthy relationships with their families, friends, at work and with themselves.
While the Legion continues to deliver many programs to veterans and their families, to ensure quality of life after release and ease the transition from service, more research is required to determine the effects of service unique to the Canadian military demographic and unique to Canadian operations. The Legion is currently engaged and very supportive of the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research to ensure that this capability is implemented.
Families are the strength behind the uniform and must be engaged in the transition process from the very start, especially when it is not a physical injury. Families can request assistance from the Military Family Resource Centres. There is a family liaison officer, who is a social worker, located in the Integrated Personnel Support Centres, who can bring assistance to the family. We were pleased to see that the VAC veterans MFRC pilot will be extended from 7 MFRCs to 32 in April 2018, which will enable our medically released members and their families to continue receiving support from the Military Family Services Program. Perhaps some day all veterans will be able to receive support from this program. Then we would have a true military and veterans family resource centre.
The first step in helping members leave the military is the transition interview. All releasing Canadian Forces members are entitled to a transition interview. For ill and injured members, we strongly recommend that it is mandatory for family members to be in attendance. We recommend that transition interviews be conducted early in the release process to help members and their families identify any needs they may have ahead of time. In fact, military members should be educated about the VAC disability benefits from the time they enter the military.
Our benevolent assistance program provided $19.5 million in 2015 to meet the essential needs of veterans and their families who have limited financial means. The program is available at all levels of the Legion and is accessible to veterans in need, including still-serving members and their families. This included a $1 million grant to the Royal Ottawa Hospital for mental health research. This gift will specifically be used to support the creation of a brain imaging centre.
We present at Second Career Assistance Network seminars on all bases and wings across the country to inform members of our services. The Legion has a presence at most of the Canadian Forces Integrated Personnel Support Centres on each base to assist veterans and their families as part of the transition process.
The Legion has been engaged in assisting homeless veterans for many years through our national Leave the Streets Behind program. Through poppy funds, we can provide emergency assistance, housing, food, clothing, bus tickets, et cetera.
Finally, I want to address the issue of communication and accessibility. The New Veterans Charter was based on modern disability management principles. It focuses on rehabilitation and successful transition. We all have an obligation to understand the complexities and interrelationships and inform and explain the New Veterans Charter. Our veterans and their families deserve nothing less. The government needs to ensure that resources and programs are in place to meet their needs. The government needs to review the accessibility of these programs and ensure that front- line staff are available and knowledgeable to assist veterans and their families. This must not be a self-serve system.
Our programs will continue to evolve to meet the changing demographics while still supporting our traditional veteran community. However, notwithstanding the capacity of the Royal Canadian Legion, we certainly believe that the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada have a responsibility to ensure that policies, practices and programs, supported through a sustainable research program, are accessible and meet the unique needs of all veterans, with the goal of enabling the healthy transition of all veterans and their families through this very challenging and somewhat difficult life course.
The Royal Canadian Legion will continue to advocate for these much-needed improvements to the transition from military to civilian life. This government needs to give the men and women who have been injured in service to their country the hope for a better tomorrow and a brighter future. Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. McInnis. I appreciate all three presentations.
We will now go on to questions, and we will start with the Chair of the Defence Committee, Senator Lang.
Senator Lang: I would like to thank you for coming here. For the period of time that I have been on the committee over the last number of years, I do sense that change has been happening. It may not be as fast as we would like, but I think there is a common cause between Veterans Affairs Canada and the Department of National Defence, in conjunction with organizations such as yours, to work towards the common principle of making things simple and bringing things together so that the veteran — him or her — does have some direct contact and have the ability to access the benefits that they rightfully deserve. Would you generally agree with that in view of where we are compared to, say, five years ago?
Mr. McInnis, perhaps you might want to comment on that.
Mr. McInnis: That's a great question. I have been with the Legion in the Service Bureau since 2011, and I have seen a marked increase in both departments working together.
With regard to adjudication of claims and the disability adjudication process, we are moving in the right direction. We are streamlining applications, but they are still a little too cumbersome. They are now looking at streamlining some of the medical questionnaires used for the veterans who are no longer in service and who are required to get a medical questionnaire completed for a diagnosed condition.
Regarding the turnaround time, there is still a backlog of claims. They are working on first applications from May of last year. That's not to say that's the case for all claims that are in Veterans Affairs. There are other claims that have been adjudicated since then. All that means is that those are the oldest claims, and that's the oldest date they have on first applications of May of 2016.
We continue to review and work with the adjudication team at Veterans Affairs to streamline the process — and I'm not going to say "simple,'' because I don't think it will ever be simple when you're dealing with a government agency — and make it "easier'' to get into the program, so to speak.
Mr. Blais: You are right that there have been significant improvements through time. I had the luxury of speaking with General Vance prior to Remembrance Day last year for an hour in his office on transitionary issues, because we have been fighting hard on reforming JPSUs in order to be that comprehensive unit that was envisioned at the time.
General Vance has a very strong vision now as far as transition is concerned, but he will run into the same problems that we have had in the past. We cannot hire psychologists because the Department of National Defence pays 30 per cent less than anyone other government entity in Canada. This creates a problem. Are we getting the best psychologists at 30 per cent less? I suggest we're not. As a consequence to that, no matter what we do in streamlining and no matter how we fix these little logistic issues that are affecting it, there will be two problems. First, we don't have enough staff at Veterans Affairs Canada to proficiently apply the services that are warranted: education, the declaration of the claim and the acceptance of a responsibility. Then we have the issues when these guys are serving. They are on these isolated bases that are having a very difficult time bringing in those qualified people. If we have learned nothing else on mental wounds, the sooner we act and the sooner we bring him or her forward, the sooner we become a team provided with a psychiatrist, a psychologist, the social care for the family and family counselling and spousal support when necessary, the better it is.
Yes, we are making improvements. However, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the sense that there are great policies in place, but there's no manpower in order to fulfill those policies with the vision that was intended at the time.
I focused on that in my comments specifically. We have to bring Veterans Affairs Canada back up to staff. They have to be trained in the nuances of war and how to take care of us when we come home sick.
Conversely, at the Veterans Affairs level, it's not just a financial incentive. I have talked to psychologists and, frankly, they are scared of us. They are scared to take on a seriously wounded combat veteran. It's not a matter of choice. They are frightened, and they are frightened because we're not reaching out and explaining to them that this man is not a threat. He's not a threat to anyone. He's seriously wounded. He's seen trauma that you will never experience in Canada, and if we don't have the mental health facilities right away, as soon as that man self-identifies, it will go sideways. That family will be lost. There will be a cycle of despair. We will have to go and get him on the street. There may be a catastrophic incident again.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: I have two questions. The first is for Mr. Blackwolf. I want some clarifications concerning the pay issues. General Vance intended to establish ways to compensate members before they're released, to avoid delays. People often have good intentions, but they don't always have the means to fulfill their ambitions. Can you provide examples of the current situation and the ensuing consequences? When members transition from military life to civilian life, there must be a delay, and I imagine that you have needs.
[English]
Mr. Blackwolf: Yes, honourable senator. There was a shift in contractual arrangements for a pay system. The Phoenix pay system is one example of that. People serving government, employees, haven't been paid in some cases for months, or wrongly paid, so it's our recommendation to give consideration to making sure that someone transitioning and leaving doesn't have an official day of leaving until they have that pension cheque or VAC benefit in their hand. We have had cases where veterans have left, gone through their release process and not received any funding or their benefits for a considerable length of time. That hardship can be avoided by making sure that those things are in hand before they leave.
Mr. Blais: I would note, senator, the recent announcements from General Vance that no one will be released until their first pay comes in, and that is a very substantial move forward.
Further to what you are saying, of all the recommendations that I have seen in the last four or five years, Gary Walbourne, the ombudsman for the military, has provided the most comprehensive platform to address this situation in transition, where it's basic. Your pay is in place the next week when you get out. Your Veterans Affairs pension has already been established through the transitionary period. There are no delays as a consequence. We have that seamless transition that we are all trying to create.
Mr. McInnis: Senator, to follow up on what Michael had said, the Phoenix pay system does not pay the military. It's only for the public servants. Regular force and reserve force members will be paid under the normal military pay system. Our pensions are not paid by Phoenix either. When it moved over in January of last year, they are under Public Works or the new procurement department, so it's not the Phoenix system.
There is no fear of that, but there always is the fear of the lateness of a pension. You ask about the ramifications. The ramifications are that people can't pay their mortgage. They don't have the money. No matter how long you ask them to be prepared when they leave the military, it's a lot of money for a young soldier or even someone that's in their early 40s, when they are leaving the military, to come up with the money to make three or four mortgage payments in a row to keep their house.
I applaud General Vance and what he would like to do. We just want to make sure that those pensions are from the date of release, barring any long administrative problems. If you're in the regular reserve service, there's a problem there, but for a straight regular force person leaving the military, your pension cheque should be in your bank account within 45 days from the time you release. You can plan for 45 days, but you certainly can't plan for five months and keep your house and your family together.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: I want to raise another issue with you, Mr. McInnis. This issue is difficult to discuss. However, I think we must talk about it so that we can properly assess it.
We often talk about suicide among former military members. To what extent could the lack of services or delays in service delivery be involved in the suicide of military members? I understand that post-traumatic stress can be linked to suicide. However, could the measures in place, which don't help with the transition, be a cause of suicide among former military members?
[English]
Mr. McInnis: Senator, I'm not a professional for suicide awareness. Well, for suicide awareness, yes, but for suicides, no. I would like to say that when you take money away from a family for a long period of time, if that person is suffering from a mental health injury, there are a lot of different components to why soldiers commit suicide. In that respect, everything adds together and there is a boiling point where that could happen.
The current investigation and plan to keep people in until everything is in place would be good if that would come to fruition. The Integrated Personnel Support Centres, when they were established, were supposed to be a one-stop-shop, and they were, until you handed over to Veterans Affairs Canada. If there is a collaboration between Veterans Affairs Canada and DND/CAF to have some type of a transition centre, and if you had a release centre/transition centre where all of your releasing members, whether they are ill or injured or not going through the same system, the same process, that would alleviate many of the problems.
Specifically speaking to what you're asking, that's not my "part ship,'' as they say.
Mr. Blais: I think I can comment on this just for direct involvement with veterans and their families. I work with Renata from The Globe and Mail on suicide, finding out who these guys are. I was shocked to find out that out of the 70-plus suicides identified through this process, over half committed suicide within two years of release, many within six or seven months. I think that's indicative of the fact that we did not have that mental health umbrella or the social infrastructure umbrella in place before we let them go.
That is why it's so important to have a comprehensive transitionary process, where we do take it into consideration, particularly within that two-year frame after release, the threat of suicide. Through that period of time — not for everybody but for those who are identified with serious mental wounds by Veterans Affairs Canada, and are being provided services for that wound — I think there should be an added incentive to ensure that their well-being is at a different level than on the average, that you do have to make that extra step to prevent suicide.
[Translation]
Senator Saint-Germain: Thank you, and congratulations on the quality and thoroughness of your presentations.
My first question is for Mr. Blackwolf. If I had a private business, I would hire you as a manager, because I find you gave a very pragmatic presentation.
I think the implementation of your recommendations could pay for itself. I believe certain recommendations would be cheaper to implement than the current management practices and the rectification of some of their negative effects.
Has any level of the department responded? Do you think your recommendations will be gradually and seriously considered and implemented?
[English]
Mr. Blackwolf: These recommendations, honourable senator, are in response to the subcommittee's study. Our practice is that when we're invited to appear before committees, we answer their questions the best of our ability. In this particular case, your study involves a release system, something that is exactly what General Vance brought to the committee several days ago.
These are our suggestions of how to implement that. This is our attempt to help in the study, so we have done this to say what's there and what needs to be there.
Personally, I'm a Cold War veteran. I've transitioned from the Canadian Armed Forces, and I have also transitioned from the civil service for a combination of 39 years of career, so I have seen the two types of transitions.
Today there is a lot more complexity, but that's why we feel very strongly that the ombudsmen have to be moved out of departments in order to bring that political pressure or to make these corrections. It would move along so much more quickly if they had some way to do that.
Having the ombudsmen in departments doesn't bring the type of pressure that should have existed in these last 10 years to make changes. Now we make them from the outsides here. We appear at stakeholders' meetings. We make these suggestions, but there's no real political impact there. That's what this would take to straighten out a lot of these problems that they're having. You have to have someone, in the case of an ombudsman, to be able to point these out and for Parliament to act on it.
Senator Saint-Germain: As a former parliamentary ombudsman of Quebec, I understand very well what you mean.
[Translation]
You spoke about the importance of a change in culture. You said in particular that the department currently manages the programs like an insurance company would manage them, and, essentially, risk is managed in the insurance company's favour.
I know this is a difficult question for you, but how do you think this change in culture could be made? Over many years, a number of reports and recommendations have been submitted. On top of the ombudsman issue, and the possible consolidation of the duties of two ombudsmen, what must be done at the highest level to produce a tangible change in culture?
[English]
Mr. Blackwolf: Madam senator, we would deeply appreciate if the Department of Veterans Affairs could move to a service. Rather than Veterans Affairs Canada, "Veterans Services Canada'' is what we're looking for.
The adjudication process, as we have said, we deem to be a negative right from the start. We understand that there could be false claims, those kinds of things, and that's why we brought into our presentation the need for personnel to sign off on their service record and their medical record so that they know what's there and they ensure all of the injuries.
We have had situations where storesmen in the navy, stewards, were being turned down for loss of hearing. What was not understood by VAC is the fact that these people, their action stations, depending on the class of ships, were actually up there at the guns passing the ammunition, so we have had to establish that. That's why it's important to know what's in your record. They wouldn't have seen that in a record if the person was a steward. "Well, he just does that type of work; there's no way that he could have his hearing affected by that.''
It's been a process like that to get certain trades identified as to what they all do. In the army, for example, everyone is classed as an infantryman, regardless of what they do. We have members who were in the service corps, but they were still jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft with the rest of the battalion. They will be affected by those things, so it has to be in there. We want to see that in their record.
We think it would also diminish fraud. We have to deal with fraudulent claims, and that's one of the problems. That's why we have a backlog all the way back to May 2016. We consider that a default of the Veterans Charter because these things are supposed to be done in a speedy manner.
Originally, we were told there was a long delay just getting the information across from the archives through the interface and the Privacy Act to Veterans Affairs because each record has to be requested. Our first suggestions were to act on that and make amendments, if necessary, to the Privacy Act, whatever it took. We were trying to establish a level line between records and Veterans Affairs, to cut it down.
Now we have a term of 16 weeks, but we still consider that that's an awfully long wait. There is a lot of frustration in dealing with Veterans Affairs. We have a lot of input from people of problems they have had with Veterans Affairs and systems, and they just threw up their arms and quit.
We would like to have a service department. We feel the pressure of the ombudspeople, but they have to be independent and have to report to Parliament. They have to have the right of subpoena. In other words, they have to have the right to be able to bring members of the government before them.
Mr. McInnis: I work in the disability application process every day. The last two years, with the mindset of the Care, Compassion, Respect policy, I'll admit that the first applications are more favourable, an increased rate coming out of Veterans Affairs Canada than there ever has been in the past.
In regard to service health records, they are now electronic. We receive them electronically on our secure system. From the time we register a claim, a decision that we're going to proceed with a claim, we receive those records within four to six weeks. It's a lot better than the four to six months they were hard copies. That process to get the documents in has improved greatly.
Yes, as I stated before, there is the normal 16-week adjudication process. There is a backlog. As I said, the oldest claim is from May 2016, and then they move forward. There are a lot of claims which we red zone, which is done within 14 days for the personnel who require red-zone criteria. For the other ones, the hearing loss one, when we submit a claim, we don't just submit the application. When we submit a claim, we flag service health records, and we go through it. If a member was in a support trade in the regimental unit, we make sure that the task statement for both the trades and the unit they belonged to goes in because yes, they do partake in all of the regimental duties, just like an infantry or artillery or armoured corps person. That all goes into the claim, along with the task statements. If it happens to be a support trade on a ship, a lot of secondary duties are probably more dangerous than the main duty, so that all goes into our submission when we send it in to Veterans Affairs Canada.
Just to correct one thing on the service health records from the military, everybody gets to sign their service health record at their release board before they leave the military. We had problems many years ago where we saw release boards done without the member's signature, but they have cleaned up that in the past six years as well, I would say. Everybody is briefed and they sign and they date their release benefit. I'm not saying that everything in there is what they agreed to, because they probably haven't gone through their whole file, but they are signing off that they had a release medical and what is on that release. But we go through the entire file. We don't just look at a release medical.
[Translation]
The Chair: Senator Saint-Germain, if you don't mind, Senator Lang wants to ask another question.
[English]
Senator Lang: I just want to follow up with Mr. Blackwolf. In your response to Senator Saint-Germain, you mentioned fraudulent claims. Could you give us any idea of how many fraudulent claims are put in over the course of the year?
Mr. Blackwolf: Senator Lang, we have no idea of that, but we do know that the adjudication process is carried out in a manner to prevent fraudulent claims. We understand that measures to reduce fraudulent claims would speed up the process. That's all.
As Mr. McInnis has pointed out, it has just been the last few years that people have been signing out.
Take a gentleman like myself, a Cold War gentleman. When you get into your 70s, as I am, the things that you did when you were in the military start catching up with you. Of course, the records from that era have not been well kept, so what we're trying to do — and our suggestion here — is to create an era where all of those things are well kept, all the way along, because even people who are leaving under normal circumstances, retirement release, 10, 15 years from that time, may develop problems related to their military service. So if it's well documented, it should go much more smoothly through the adjudication process.
We believe in the adjudication process. I think it's an important process. In particular, people like myself believe that they should receive the benefit of the doubt, which doesn't exist at this time.
Senator Lang: Thank you.
Mr. Blais: May I just comment on that, Senator Lang? When we talk of fraud, we have to put this in perspective. We are talking about transition. We're talking about people who have been seriously wounded going through a period of time in their life. There is no fraud there.
Fraud exists; don't get me wrong.
Senator Lang: No, I don't want you to misinterpret me. I'm sorry. The question was to Mr. Blackwolf and his comments. I was trying to get a sense of what we were talking about. I don't think anyone has to justify one group versus another.
Mr. Blais: That wasn't my intent either. It was on an open standard of addressing fraud.
Senator Boniface: Thank you all for being here. I am conscious of the time we have, so I will ask only one of my questions, which is a follow-up to your references around mental health issues and the capacity to deal with and assist veterans in that regard.
I am interested in the transition point where they transition to civilian life in the community. I would suspect that one of the difficulties we have generally in Canada is trying to get any assistance, no matter who you are, in particular mental health services. Does that exasperate the issue from a longer-term perspective?
Mr. Blais: As with all these long-term perspective problems, we provide or attempt to provide quality of service to them when they are in the military and then let them go, but we don't reach out to that community. We have nothing, particularly if they are aware from an MFRC or the base; there is no way for them to reach out.
Many times, they don't want to reach out. They are sick. They are isolating. They think they will take care of it by themselves. I can tell you that a mental wound is like a sliver; no one takes care of it by themselves. Once it happens, there's blood poisoning and you need a doctor. If we don't have those doctors in place, you fall into a cycle of despair, as I call it.
Senator Boniface: The point I wanted to make is that it's exasperated. I live in a small city and come from a policing background. It is difficult for any family to get mental health services in many areas of our country right now. It would be exasperated for people who live in a community that has one or two psychologists, neither of which would have any experience in the type of care you are talking about.
From your perspective, in your association with people who do similar advocacy work that you do in other countries, can you point us to other jurisdictions that appear to be doing things in a better way? I am thinking about Australia and New Zealand, anywhere that would be similar to us size-wise.
Mr. Blais: I just read an Australian report, which I found to be quite fascinating. They have taken a lot of care with anti-stigma efforts — coming forward and being recognized without stigma — that are valuable. The Brits are entertaining it as well.
American ones exist, but when we are comparing to an American base, they are so large and have so many resources that it is very difficult to make comparisons. Meanwhile, Britain, New Zealand and Australia are closer in size. We are close in size with our mental health capabilities as a nation.
But I truly believe that the only way forward where we can make effective results is to convince these mental health professionals to accept their sacred obligation. They have waiting lists. They are overwhelmed as it is.
Senator Boniface: They are.
Mr. Blais: You have serious trauma there in the military, you can't wait seven months for someone to get better and then click in.
Mr. Blackwolf: I have been invited to Australia three times, and I have good very good contacts there with the Australian Defence Force, the ADF. They have a different approach; they are developing quite a unique approach in some cases. The Australians had a long engagement. They have fought with the United States in every conflict. They have been continually at war for the last 30 or more years, from veterans from Vietnam all the way through.
It has been an honour to be invited down there. They have some good programs for physical things like knee replacements. I actually fell ill one time when I was there, and I became part of the Australian health system. They were kind enough to send me a letter. They said, "We know it was your seventy-fifth birthday. You should come in. We would like to have a look at you.''
Mr. McInnis: It is always good to look at other countries, the research process and what they are doing there.
I agree with Michael on eradicating the stigma. If you look at the past 10 years in this country, on mental health alone, from local communities, professional athletes, what's going on with Bell Let's Talk, it's huge — in the military as well. We have to keep moving that forward and keep speaking about mental health every day.
As far as the smaller communities are concerned, it's a huge problem. I have provinces where I have a hard time getting a normal medical questionnaire completed because they don't have a family doctor. They can't walk into a health care centre and get referrals. You say the period is 16 weeks to adjudicate a claim, we have people taking six months just to get in to complete a medical questionnaire to prove they have a diagnosed condition. It is right across the country, although I am having more problems in the eastern provinces than out west.
We also have to look at the fact that we have a lot of good benefits in this country as well. I think we are the only country where the government provides a free lawyer for you to appeal a decision against the government.
But it's always good to look at other countries for good ideas.
The Chair: I have a few questions. The committee is aware of homelessness, but Mr. McInnis, you brought up the homeless veterans and the Leave the Streets Behind program. Are there any recommendations the committee could make in that regard?
Mr. McInnis: Since 1926, we have been helping veterans, but in 2010, the Royal Canadian Legion, Ontario Command, started the Leave the Streets Behind program. In 2012, we took it across the country as a national program.
It is a program where they don't duplicate services. They will work with the community shelters, the Salvation Army and the Shepherd's ministries. In different provinces, we provide different levels of the Poppy Fund and work with case workers as well to ensure they have first and last month's rent. We have a homeless backpack with necessities in it as well.
Ontario Command itself, since it started the program in 2010, has put about $1.6 million into the program and helped over 460 homeless veterans in Ontario alone. They have now expanded down to Niagara.
It is an excellent program. Some provinces don't have homeless veterans, or they are not declaring any. We watch closely the "point in time'' counts from the ESDC to see how many homeless veterans are in the country. We don't have a definitive number. We have homeless veterans who don't want to come in and stay in a shelter or a home. They don't want the social responsibility of owning a home, primarily in B.C. where the weather is warmer. We train them well in the military. They go in, they live and they come in when they need to. But when they come in, they can either go to Cockrell House in Victoria or come into command to get funding if they need funding.
We created an RCL homeless veterans advisory committee in 2015. We have had two meetings since. We invite government — municipal, provincial, federal, the ministries — to come in. We want to keep the homelessness file in the public eye. It is very important. I don't think we will ever eradicate it, but we'd like to get a grip on it. I always say that one homeless veteran is one too many, but as I stated, there are always a few that don't want to be taken off the street, which is their own will. However, there will be supports and services there for when they need it.
As far as the government is concerned, VAC, they have put in a homeless OPI in the area offices. I was in B.C. in November for the CIMVHR Forum. I just happened to go in and visit my command office, and a homeless veteran walked in. Within two hours of putting him on the phone, we had the person in support and services.
Homelessness needs dedicated support. There is no Veterans Affairs detailed program yet to provide support directly to a homeless veteran; they still have to qualify under the system.
The Chair: I have a question for you, Mr. Blackwolf. Perhaps others can answer it also.
We talk about services. Perhaps I am mistaken, but my understanding is that the services would be in cities with bigger populations. As president of Aboriginal services, what happens to people who go to live on reserves or in rural areas? How do they access services?
Mr. Blackwolf: Originally, you didn't receive services if you went back to your reserve, say after World War II. If you went to an urban area, you would be able to access the gratuities and various things that they had for people returning from World War II and the Korean War.
Essentially, when a person returned to their reserve, they came under Indian Affairs and Northern Development, which didn't have any programs for veterans, of course. However, compensation was offered and paid in the early 2000s. Many took the compensation and some turned it down. Essentially that has been the mode.
In modern times, when people leave, they are entitled to go to a Veterans Affairs office whether they are on a reserve or not.
There are five programs that the federal government operates to attract Aboriginal people. There are three summer programs of seven weeks for young people, followed by an employment course in the fall, and the Royal Military College offers a year of training there.
Aboriginal people are considered excellent recruits. They make good soldiers because they are family people, and they tend to stay in the Armed Forces. They have a good retention rate. That is one of the driving forces. There are five special courses just for Aboriginals.
People do have problems, of course, but they have resources on reserves: spiritualism and the religion of the Great Plains. Those types of things help a lot, especially with some of the mental health programs.
The Chair: Did any of you want to add a comment with regard to rural people who can't access services?
Mr. Blais: I've spoken to many of them. It is unfortunate that those who have sustained severe mental trauma often isolate. They prefer to be up North in your area, northern Saskatchewan or places where the civilian population is suffering from a lack of mental health care or general practitioners. As we all know, there is a serious problem at that level. The farther they get away from the major centres, the more difficult it is to apply the resources they require for us to bring them back, to provide that respite, to ensure there is that network of care available. We don't have those doctors in place. We don't have psychologists or psychiatrists in place.
It is not for want; we are trying. At our level, as a veterans advocate reaching out to local communities for psychologists, we are trying, but in many cases, they are just overwhelmed with the population base they are dealing with. They will put you on the list, but that list could be 50 people. It is very difficult.
The Chair: That is the challenge for everybody, yes.
I want to finish by saying that we asked you to come here because you know about this. We are learning from you the challenges that are faced by veterans. We also know that Chief Vance is trying to get this to be a more professional service.
I am going to ask each of you this one question: If there is one recommendation you would want us to make in our report that would help with the work you do, what would that be?
Mr. McInnis: If there is to be a transition centre developed to replace the IPSCs, I would highly recommend that it be staffed with the best resources you can provide; that is, with people and with money. The people that will be resourced and put into that place have to be compassionate and have a passion for helping people. You can't just post people into a transition centre and say to them, "By the way, you are now taking care of people who are ill and injured.''
My last four service officers at Dominion Command I took from the IPSC world because I knew they would have the compassion and passion for doing the work. You can't just put people in there and they say, "Oh, just another guy. Here, just fill out the forms.'' They must be family-oriented as well. Families are a huge part. They have to know the systems, DND, CAF and VAC policies.
It will be a difficult centre to get people into. It will take time to develop, but as I said before, you can't post people or have civilians come in that have no knowledge.
Michael talked about military culture. Many years ago when they started casualty support centres, they thought they could go to the civilian community for medical professionals. Finally, a nurse in Edmonton wrote in and said, "It's great that we are treating your soldiers, but I don't know anything about them. I need some education here.'' They developed almost a Military 101 that they teach the public service. That is what is needed for the health care professionals.
You talk about case management and people coming in. They can find and hire people that have the education. It just takes a long time to train them about what they need to know about VAC and the Canadian Forces. A soldier is a different person.
I transitioned extremely well when I left the Regular Force in 2003 and the Reserve Force in 2010. I thought I transitioned well. Then I had to deal with the civilian medical community. Not so much, I thought. I now had to make my own bookings.
After 34 years in the military, I walked into a health care centre. They took care of my dental and my annuals. I didn't think it was that great at the time; it's military doctors. I'm telling you, when you leave that and you have to go to civilian doctors, I'm sorry, but I would rather stay under the military health care system.
Mr. Blackwolf: As far as recommendations, I would say exactly what we were talking about: to achieve a professional central training facility. It has to be a professional training facility for people to attend to get this type of training before they can staff a release centre which is going to handle all categories of release: normal retirement and end-of-career release.
There will be more of those coming, because VAC is now offering, after six years, monies for school; and after ten years. The army, in particular, has a retention psyche, but there will be people leaving with various medical categories, all the way from severely injured to mildly injured.
We have to start with an academy. Let's change that from a training facility to an academy where people in the military people go and receive professional training.
Our second recommendation, which is paramount, is the removal of the ombudsmen out of the departments and make them autonomous positions where they can subpoena and report to Parliament. That is paramount to the pressures that need to be placed on this system and the people that would have the right to do it.
Mr. Blais: There are many things we could talk about, but the one thing that is paramount is having that mental health capability through transition and post-transition. The only way we will do that is by having a positive government effort and to bring the Canadian Psychological Association, the Canadian Psychiatric Association into the fold, to go to their conventions and speak to military culture, and beg them for help, literally.
Second, I am speaking to staff at Veterans Affairs Canada. I know this is an old story, but 90 per cent of the complaints we are hearing about, whether it is delay or whatever until you die, is because they don't have the manpower to process it expeditiously. It is not malicious or intentional; it is just a lack of manpower.
The Chair: Thank you for being here today. We learned a lot from you, and we want to thank you for the work you do on behalf of veterans. You really serve Canadians.
If there is anything else you think we should be looking at, please send it to the clerk, and we will distribute it to all the members.
(The committee adjourned.)