THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Monday, June 6, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met with videoconference this day at 5 p.m. [ET] to study francophone immigration to minority communities.
Senator René Cormier (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Before we begin, I’d like to remind senators and witnesses to please keep your microphones muted at all times, unless recognized by name by the chair.
[English]
Should any technical challenges arise, particularly in relation to interpretation, please signal this to the chair or the clerk, and we will work to resolve the issue.
[Translation]
Participants should know to do so in a private area and to be mindful of their surroundings.
We will now begin our meeting. I am René Cormier, senator from New Brunswick, and Chair of the Senate Committee on Official Languages.
I would like to introduce the members of the committee who are participating in this meeting: Senator Rose-May Poirier from New Brunswick; Senator Raymonde Gagné from Manitoba, member of the steering committee; Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais from Quebec, member of the steering committee; Senator Bernadette Clement from Ontario; Senator Lucie Moncion from Ontario; Senator Marie-Françoise Mégie from Quebec; and Senator Percy Mockler from New Brunswick.
I wish to welcome all of you and viewers across the country who may be watching.
[English]
I would like to point out that we are taking part in this meeting from within the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe Nation.
[Translation]
Today we continue our study on francophone immigration to minority communities. For your information, following the appearance of the witnesses invited for the first hour, and pursuant to the decision of the Senate of Canada upon adoption of motion 41 last week, we will suspend our study on francophone immigration to minority communities and undertake a pre-study of Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.
Today we are pleased to welcome by videoconference representatives of the Association francophone des municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick, Michelle Barclay, Director of Policy, and Kassim Doumbia, 2nd Vice President of the Board of Directors, as well as representatives of the Association of Bilingual Municipalities of Manitoba. Annie Girard will address us on behalf of that association.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for accepting our invitation and welcome to the committee.
Kassim Doumbia, 2nd Vice President of the Board of Directors, Association francophone des municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, members of the committee.
First of all, I want to thank you, on behalf of the Association francophone des municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick and its 50 member municipalities, for this opportunity to share some thoughts on the major issues associated with francophone immigration to minority communities.
I welcome the federal government’s intention to develop an ambitious national strategy on francophone integration across the country.
The province of New Brunswick is facing an unprecedented demographic challenge. The aging of its population and the exodus of young graduates to other provinces have reduced the province’s labour force and caused labour recruitment problems for businesses. As a result of these demographic challenges, our communities are unable to develop, and their essential services have been reduced or cut as a result of the labour shortage.
Experts estimate that, at this rate, we will need at least 10,000 newcomers every year to offset our out-migration. The recruitment of newcomers and their inclusion and retention in our communities are thus essential to ensuring sustainable population growth in the province. Since francophones represent approximately one third of the province’s total population, the New Brunswick government has set a target of 33% francophone immigrants. However, that target is constantly being lowered, and, despite the significant increase in their numbers in recent years, francophone immigrants now constitute less than 20% of newcomers to the province.
Special attention must therefore be focused on promoting and supporting immigration initiatives and on efforts to integrate francophones. This would help ensure that adequate support is offered to francophone communities, service providers and francophone newcomers.
In our view, immigration quotas for New Brunswick must be significantly increased to ensure annual demographic growth, and the percentage of French-speaking immigrants must also be raised to respect the province’s linguistic specificity and to correct the demographic gap that New Brunswick francophones have experienced in recent decades.
This specificity is also apparent in the geographic distribution of our communities. Although they are official language minority communities, our francophone communities are very strong majority communities in a number of regions. One way of offsetting the demographic gap would be to introduce the municipal nominee program, the initiative cited in the mandate letter of the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada in 2019. That initiative would enable local communities, chambers of commerce and local labour associations to sponsor immigration candidates directly in order to meet the specific needs of our region.
There is often a discrepancy between labour needs and newcomer numbers. Municipalities often have a clear and consistent idea of the labour needs of employers in their francophone and Acadian communities and can more accurately target promotion and recruitment efforts and initiatives associated with the immigration program to meet francophone needs. If people arrive in a region where jobs are already reserved for them and where a community awaits and is prepared to welcome them, integration will thus be facilitated and retention will improve over the long term.
It is therefore necessary that the communities have a say in selecting the newcomers who come and settle in their regions, since they know their needs better than anyone else. The welcoming francophone communities program, a federal initiative designed to help welcome newly settled immigrants, is another tool that assists the francophone communities in planning how to welcome and retain newcomers. The purpose of this community pilot project, which is already established in the Haut-Saint-Jean region, is to foster a sense of belonging in francophone newcomers to assist them in integrating and thriving in the region. It is also designed to increase the awareness of all stakeholders and thus stimulate demographic, economic and cultural growth.
I would note that this project, which AFMNB has managed since late 2020, has produced very good results, as the Commissioner of Official Languages, Raymond Théberge, noted in the Action Plan for Official Languages 2018-23: Investing in Our Future. The initiative should be renewed in other francophone communities in the province based on a model with a proven track record.
I will stop there. I’ll be very pleased to provide you with more context as I answer your questions. Francophone immigration to minority communities is a very complex matter. It is closely related to many other municipal issues beyond the scope of your study, one that calls for innovative solutions by and for our communities in New Brunswick’s francophone regions.
Our association will continue its efforts to raise awareness and provide support for its members in welcoming and retaining newcomers to ensure the vitality of our province’s francophone communities and citizens.
Thank you for listening, and I wish you every success in your work. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Doumbia.
I now give the floor to Annie Girard from the Association of Bilingual Municipalities of Manitoba.
Annie Girard, Associate, Municipal Immigration File, Association of Bilingual Municipalities of Manitoba: Thank you very much.
Mr. Chair, honourable members of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages and partners of the Association francophone des municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick, I am pleased to appear before you today.
First, I would like to convey the greetings of Justin Johnson, chief executive officer of the Association of Bilingual Municipalities of Manitoba, or AMBM, who sincerely regrets that he is unable to address you live today for reasons beyond his control.
My name is Annie Girard, and I am honoured to represent Mr. Johnson as an associate on the municipal immigration file at AMBM.
I am speaking to you from the city of Ottawa, on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people. AMBM’s head office is located in the Saint-Boniface quarter of the city of Winnipeg, situated on Treaty 1 land, which is part of the traditional lands of the Anishinaabe peoples, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota and Dene, and the homeland of the Métis nation.
AMBM would like to congratulate your committee for conducting this study on francophone immigration to minority communities. We are pleased to have this opportunity to meet with you and to describe our members’ perspective on this crucial issue of the development and vitality of our francophone minority communities, the FMCs.
AMBM is the voice of the bilingual municipal leadership in the province of Manitoba. It represents 15 municipalities — Winnipeg, the capital, and 14 rural municipalities — that have adopted a policy to provide services in both official languages. Since 2020, in cooperation with Mr. Johnson and with the support of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, I have been coordinating a project to define the role, responsibilities, assets and needs of Manitoba’s bilingual municipalities in order to stimulate francophone and bilingual immigration to those municipalities together with other immigration stakeholders.
We have conducted many consultation, research and capacity-building activities in the past two years. In addition, AMBM is actively involved as a municipal partner with the welcoming francophone community of Rivière-Seine.
In the short term, over the next few weeks, AMBM will publish its 2022-25 strategy for supporting economic integration to Manitoba’s bilingual municipalities. The four basic principles of the strategy are, first, to address immigration through an inclusive linguistic approach that values bilingualism, in a manner consistent with the commitment of our municipalities to official languages, all viewed through an important francophone and regional lens. We would note, however, that the Manitoba government’s francophone immigration target is 7%, whereas that of the federal government was, until very recently, 4.4%.
In that respect, AMBM supports the proposal made by the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada that the federal target be significantly raised to 20% in francophone minority communities by 2036. We believe this is also in the interest of the Canadian people as a whole.
The second principle is to promote immigration that attracts the talent we seek and meets our entrepreneurial needs in a manner consistent with the local and regional economic fabric, as stated in our economic recovery strategy.
Third, we must build the capacity of our members in a manner consistent with their issues, needs and immigration objectives since everything is more asymmetrical than symmetrical.
Lastly, we must join forces with the other two orders of government to contribute actively to defining and meeting immigration targets and to contributing to the development of strategies for immigration in general and francophone immigration in particular.
While immigrants first choose the province or territory they wish to adopt, they will settle, live their everyday lives and receive local services in our municipalities. Winnipeg is one of Canada’s leading cities for francophone immigration, and we are very proud of that. In the other 14 bilingual municipalities, which are more rural, immigration has become a priority more recently and their capacity remains to be built, particularly in accordance with the four basic principles, but especially with planning and recruitment of economic immigration that are consistent with local needs, something that requires us to work with employers, develop the often very modest capacity of rural municipalities and promote their assets.
Our communities and municipal administrations must be prepared to welcome newcomers. Manitobans are welcoming, supportive, caring and generous people, but, with all the information in hand and a clear understanding of the issues, they can open up even more and take an active part in welcoming newcomers.
Settlement is also a focus for us, by which I mean we want to guarantee access to suitable and affordable housing, regional and interregional transit services, reliable internet conductivity and English- and French-language training.
Lastly, as regards inclusivity, we want to ensure that regional tools and mechanisms are put in place to develop partnerships and sustainable solutions that meet immigrants’ needs. AMBM also has two economic subsidiaries, the Economic Development Council for Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities, or CDEM, and Eco-West Canada.
In addition to its broad range of programming, CDEM coordinates Invitation to Manitoba, which is the francophone strategic subcomponent linked to the Manitoba nominee program, which in turn is administered together with the province. Eco-West Canada provides Canadian municipalities with consulting services on energy efficiency and transition. Our two subsidiaries are major strategic assets in supporting our members’ efforts to assist newcomers in successfully immigrating to their communities. CDEM has already made major progress with its partners in improving rural connectivity.
In addition, Eco-West Canada is rolling out a structural rural mobility project in southeast Manitoba. These are two examples. As you can see, everything related to immigration in our rural municipalities remains to be built. However, the interest and enthusiasm are there, and AMBM is working actively to build capacity for its members. For example, in March 2023, we will hold the first municipal immigration forum in Winnipeg and, over that year, will develop a bilingual toolkit on the welcoming communities together with a training program.
In Manitoba, AMBM represents the order of government closest to citizens and francophone minority communities through its 15 bilingual and democratic member institutions. The issues related to welcoming, settling, including and retaining immigrants take on their full importance in our communities and require specific and sustainable solutions. Which is why it is supremely important to offer the efforts and resources of the three orders of government, to combine those efforts and to ensure that all parties come out winners, starting with the immigrants who choose us as their new home.
These people arrive full of hope, dreams and aspirations. We have a duty to help them thrive, and, at the same time, we will help build strong, prosperous and vibrant francophone and bilingual communities where people can live good lives. Thank you for your attention.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Girard. We will now proceed to questions from the senators. Colleagues, I would remind you that each senator is allowed five minutes for both question and answer. I would also ask you to mention which of the witnesses your question is for, if it is directed to someone in particular.
Senator Poirier: Thanks to the witnesses for being with us this evening. It’s much appreciated. My first question is for the Association francophone des municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick. In the brief you presented to the committee last May, you suggested, in your third recommendation, that the francophone immigration target in New Brunswick should be raised to 30% or 40%? How did you come up with those figures? In addition, with regard to the new target and the immigration policy, what should the federal government do to maintain demographic weight in the Acadian communities?
Mr. Doumbia: Thank you for that question, senator. As regards the 33% figure, as you know, and as we mentioned earlier, francophones represent one third of New Brunswick’s population, so 33%. Consequently, if we want to maintain or increase that demographic target, we have to be able to attract a lot more francophone immigrants to our regions.
To date, the provincial targets haven’t been enough to attract the number of francophone immigrants we need to maintain or exceed francophone targets for the province. It is essential that we request an increase in immigration quotas in order to offset that demographic deficit and continue moving forward. Francophone immigration makes a critical contribution to the well-being of our communities by supporting our labour force and services and maintaining the French language we so cherish.
Senator Poirier: Do you think it’s feasible to have a national target and regional target, as you propose? If so, how?
Mr. Doumbia: Since New Brunswick doesn’t manage its own immigration, we have to go through the federal government. If we want the federal government to be able to meet the targets the province has set, we must immediately raise the federal targets so we can attract francophones to New Brunswick. It’s critical that the federal government raise its targets. We also hope that will have an impact on the provincial targets we set for ourselves.
Senator Poirier: Thank you. Do I have time for another question?
The Chair: Yes, absolutely.
Senator Poirier: My question is for both witnesses. Would you please describe the consultation mechanism between IRCC and the municipalities, and should those consultations be improved? If so, how?
The Chair: Who would like to answer that question?
Senator Poirier: The question is for both witnesses.
Ms. Girard: I can go first. Thank you for your question, senator. Are you referring to the consultations conducted by IRCC or by our association as part of the project?
Senator Poirier: I’d like you to describe IRCC’s mechanisms for consulting the municipalities, to tell me whether those consultations should be improved and how frequently they should be held. In short, I’d like to know what the relationship is between the two.
Ms. Girard: All right. The consultations that AMBM conducted in 2020 and 2021 stemmed from a project funded by IRCC. The consultations were not conducted by IRCC, but they were commissioned by the department. We had a free hand in consulting our members. We also consulted partners in immigration and francophone immigration.
Mr. Doumbia: As far as I’m concerned, there was no consultation between IRCC and the association and its members. There’s a void there. To talk about immigration is to talk about communities. It’s important that municipalities be central to those consultations since newcomers settle in our communities. IRCC conducts consultations with partners that work in the immigration field, whether they be intake organizations or immigration advocacy organizations. However, no consultations have yet been conducted directly with the municipalities.
Senator Poirier: Thank you.
Senator Gagné: Welcome to our witnesses. I’m very pleased to see you again. I just wanted to try to understand the relationship among the municipalities, your associations and the federal government. From an organizational perspective, if there’s a national strategy, what mechanisms and processes must be put in place to ensure that strategy is carried out on the ground, in the municipalities? As you mentioned, Ms. Girard, the municipalities are the first responders, as it were. They’re close to people and are very familiar with their needs. I’m trying to understand because the municipalities are a provincial jurisdiction, but immigration is a shared jurisdiction with the provinces. How can we ensure it’s all synchronized?
Ms. Girard: Thank you for that question, Senator Gagné. You’ve raised one of the most important issues that AMBM is dealing with, for the reasons I mentioned. The municipalities are the order of government closest to citizens, even though they’re creatures of the provinces. They are nevertheless one of the three orders of government. We’d like more municipalities to be invited to the decision-making table with the other two orders of government. There’s the whole aspect of being on the ground and delivering services to people who’ll be living in those municipalities from day to day. Without the municipalities, it’s as though a very important element is missing from the planning and implementation of the immigration plan. So what mechanism should we favour? That has to be discussed, but we suggest that the three orders of government work together. That’s one of our priorities.
Senator Gagné: With your permission, I’d like to add another dimension to my question. In Bill C-13, we nevertheless want to examine the possibility of establishing an immigration policy. Do you think the municipalities should be included in that policy, Mr. Doumbia?
Mr. Doumbia: Thank you, senator. Yes, I think the municipalities should be included in the policy, hence our proposal regarding the municipal nominee program. Since, as we said, the municipality is the order of government closest to citizens, municipalities should have a say in which candidates can immigrate to our communities. That would help us target labour needs more accurately for our entrepreneurs in the region and in other developing sectors. It’s critical that any strategy developed by the federal government include a municipal component to facilitate the exchange between federal and municipal governments.
The Chair: Ms. Girard, do you want to add something?
Ms. Girard: Yes, thank you very much. I agree with my colleague Mr. Doumbia with regard to the municipal nominee program that was announced. Furthermore, we, in Manitoba, are fortunate to be able to team up with the province in the Manitoba nominee program. However, we would like to go further and have more influence on recruitment and immigrant selection. Manitoba knows the economic prospects for the province as a whole, but not necessarily those of the rural communities. A special component within that program would enable us to manage our immigration more effectively based on the local economic fabric. That’s another factor that would assist us in working together with the other orders of government on that issue.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Dagenais: My question is for both witnesses. I wonder how effective the federal Department of Immigration is in accepting and integrating francophone immigrants.
You’re full of good will and we acknowledge your efforts, but municipal authorities are generally in a much better position and more aware of citizens’ concerns than Ottawa. Do you think the federal government is using you properly or could you do more? What kind of additional responsibilities could you take on so the flow of francophone immigrant cases can be unblocked more quickly in your communities? If something is blocking what you’re proposing, where is it?
The Chair: Who wants to take that?
Mr. Doumbia: To answer your question, yes, I think that the municipalities could play a much more important role in immigration matters. I also think that if it were wholly administered by IRCC, as you pointed out, there would be bottlenecks, but that if the municipalities were involved seriously in the process, selection could be streamlined by requiring that specific guidelines be followed in order to make the candidate selection process much faster.
We know that the immigration process is complex and takes time. When there are immediate needs, the time to deal with them is right away, not some time in the future. If it takes six to eight months before immigrants can come and settle here, then it’s not a good idea to keep our communities and businesses waiting. I believe that if the municipalities were included, with a well regulated framework and the resources needed, they could play a support role in the IRCC’s preselection process and do a better job of identifying candidates for our communities.
Ms. Girard: I couldn’t agree more. We are clearly on the same page, Mr. Doumbia.
Earlier, I shared with you our realities in Manitoba. Winnipeg is doing fairly well, but our rural municipalities are just getting going. We found that all the municipalities agreed that there ought to be more autonomy in terms of selecting immigrants. Municipalities want more autonomy, but not the additional bureaucracy that would have to be dealt with. That’s why, to the greatest extent possible, we would like to make the program, or the subsidiary component previously administered by the CDEM, under the AMBM, more autonomous, in order to do a better job of addressing the realities and needs of our municipalities.
As for whether we are being used to our full potential, the answer is clearly no. I believe that local governments are one of our best-kept secrets. I spoke to you about that earlier, but our greatest challenges are in terms of connectivity, housing, and regional and interregional mobility. So we need the proper resources to build capacity in our municipalities to get projects started and to help them move forward quickly.
That’s where we’re at right now.
Senator Clement: Good afternoon and thank you to all our witnesses.
I’d like to continue with the housing issue you just raised, Ms. Girard. I’d like to go into the subject in greater depth.
I’m a former mayor of Cornwall, in eastern Ontario. We weren’t designated a welcoming community, because the City of Hawkesbury was selected for the program. I’d like to have more comments, Mr. Doumbia, on why this kind of program was launched, and what the municipalities that were not selected did?
Then, Ms. Girard, I’d like you to say more in connection with your comment about housing. What specifically do you need from the other levels of government to remedy a situation that has become a real crisis? We can’t move forward until that issue has been dealt with.
Ms. Girard: I can start, if that’s all right with you.
It’s true that before we even begin to look at the “immigration” factor, there is already a housing crisis in our bilingual municipalities. If we want to host more immigrants in rural communities, because there really is a need for them, we have to build housing very soon, and also in the medium and long term. There have to be options because the municipalities can’t shoulder all these sorts of responsibilities on their own, and need encouragement to develop an environment that could deal with this level of management.
Will there be any programs to help us? Human resources could help the municipalities find long-term solutions that could be implemented, as well as the required private sector and community partners. These municipalities really need assistance to structure a favourable environment, in the form of financial resources, federal and provincial programs, etc., to provide the human resources needed to support the whole process and set the mechanism in motion. So everything has to be organized and the solutions need to be deployed in the short term.
We are no longer at the planning phase; we are responding to a crisis, and it’s essential to react quickly. Until housing solutions have been found and implemented, we are paralyzed in terms of developing and implementing immigration strategies.
Senator Clement: Thank you for these additional comments, Ms. Girard. Mr. Doumbia, could you respond to that, and also answer the question about Welcoming Francophone Communities? Why is this program running?
Mr. Doumbia: Thank you very much, Senator Clement.
On the matter of the housing crisis, it’s a fact, and that’s what we have. The existing programs are not meeting the needs of rural communities. When there is a program, and people are asking for public transit, it’s not necessarily the same kind of public transit that you will find in major cities. It’s important to adapt it to our own regional realities. We might have a transportation system or a carpooling arrangement, but it can’t really be considered public transit. And yet it’s a model that works and that can be appropriate to our communities. I think that the various programs, including housing programs, need to take factors like that into consideration for rural regions.
Sometimes, when a program is launched, it’s for housing that needs to be built quickly within 12 months. But I’d like to see how many rural regions will be able to benefit from these new programs introduced by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation or the infrastructure department. These programs are often more appropriate for big cities.
To return to the question about Welcoming Francophone Communities, in New Brunswick, there was in fact only one community selected, in the Upper Saint John area. The other communities that were not selected were simply unable to continue. The employers seeking workers continued to look for the people they needed.
These are communities where the employer or the chamber of commerce got to work and went into the communities to make people aware of why the immigration effort had been made, owing to the need for newcomers in our communities, for our companies and for the development of these communities. The job was left to volunteers who did not necessarily have the assistance or tools required, but they carried on because they believed in it. It’s with this message in mind that they will do their utmost to make sure that the communities are ready to welcome newcomers.
Senator Clement: Thanks to both of you.
Senator Mégie: I’d like to thank our witnesses. My first question is for Mr. Doumbia.
It’s clear that for Canada to attract francophone immigrants, it’s important to promote Canada abroad. Given that New Brunswick is officially bilingual — and I’m not sure whether you’re going to have the data I’m looking for — is this something that encourages francophone immigrants to come here, rather than to other provinces?
Mr. Doumbia: I would say, senator, that New Brunswick’s status as a bilingual province gives it an edge among immigrants. We know that French-speaking immigrants would like to settle in a community where they can communicate in their own language, but also afterwards learn the second language, English, because it’s the language of the labour market.
My view is that New Brunswick has a strategic advantage, because of its two official languages, in terms of attracting francophone immigrants to settle there.
Senator Mégie: So am I right in saying that you are in second place after Quebec in terms of the competition for francophone immigrants, compared to the other provinces that are unilingual anglophone?
Mr. Doumbia: Exactly. It’s worth noting that Quebec maintains tighter control over its immigration than New Brunswick. If there were provincial and municipal mechanisms to administer our immigration system, it would, I believe, yield better results.
Senator Mégie: Thank you. My second question is for both witnesses. Do you have data on the provenance of francophone immigrants to your municipalities? Do they come through the usual immigration programs or via the interprovincial mobility process?
Ms. Girard: If you’re talking about French-speaking immigrants, in Manitoba we have data collected by the provincial government. It was really Manitoba’s Provincial Nominee Program that was the most successful factor in terms of integration. I don’t have the numbers with me, but it’s information that I could send you following our meeting here today, if you wish.
Mr. Doumbia: As was the case in New Brunswick, the data collected by the department was on employability. If you want information about francophones or French-speaking citizens, Statistics Canada can provide it.
As my colleague mentioned, we can send you the data, if you wish.
Senator Mégie: Okay, thank you. That would be much appreciated.
Ms. Girard: I’d like to point out that it is through the Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program, and its Invitation to Manitoba component, administered by the CDEM subsidiary of the AMBM, that immigrants are identified and recommended as nominees to the province. The province then sends the letter of invitation and the CDEM organizes an exploratory visit to Manitoba.
That in fact is how most French-speaking immigrants come to Manitoba.
The Chair: Thank you for that additional information.
Senator Moncion: My first question happens to be about programs for municipal candidates. Those included in the pilot project have the upper hand in selecting the individuals and the municipalities where they are going to settle. I understand what Senator Clement meant when she pointed out that Cornwall had not been chosen, but that Hawkesbury had been. So when you are included in these programs, there is a definite advantage in terms of being recognized as the first municipality to which immigrants are going to be directed.
Mr. Doumbia: For New Brunswick, I couldn’t tell you whether there was a competitive advantage for the region that became part of the program, but that region was able to receive the resources required to facilitate welcoming these immigrants and making the necessary links with the community.
There are as a result many more resources to help with the whole familiarization process for newcomers settling in Canada.
And, of course, in advertising, these locations can point out that their region was selected to be part of the program, giving them an advantage over other regions. This helps immigrants decide between one location and another.
Senator Moncion: Ms. Girard?
Ms. Girard: As none of our members in Manitoba were included in the pilot project, I don’t have any data on this.
Senator Moncion: All right. I have a subsidiary question that pertains to the fact that a number of municipalities were chosen. These municipalities have access to funds that enable them to establish infrastructures that will allow them to do a better job of welcoming immigrants and integrating them into their communities. So it’s a big advantage to be part of the program.
I believe that this initiative should be extended to all Canadian municipalities to make funds available just about everywhere to facilitate immigration.
I know that the Minister of Immigration was mandated to go ahead with the program.
My question is about the pool of potential candidates. On the francophone immigration front, there are 10 provinces doing battle to attract francophone immigrants in an effort to increase the demographic weight of francophones in each of the provinces.
What’s your involvement in selecting people who come in Canada? Are you consulted to determine who will go to the respective provinces? If so, at what stage do you come into the picture?
Could you give some further explanations about the program as it relates to the Department of Immigration in Ottawa.
Ms. Girard: Thank you for your question. For Manitoba, as I was explaining earlier, we work with the province for everything related to the Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program. There is consultation and the CDEM is responsible for choosing immigration candidates.
You might expect French-speaking immigrants to automatically choose Quebec, but every year, the CDEM ends up with an enormous pool of immigration applicants. We don’t have the resources needed to process every one of these files or to welcome them to Manitoba for an exploratory visit.
We don’t have any trouble attracting people who want to come here. The problem is getting the resources needed to manage and then host the pool of prospective applicants.
However, as I was saying, Manitoba’s bilingual municipalities would like to have more autonomy in selecting their immigrants. The Municipal Nominee Program is certainly one that will be closely watched once it is rolled out.
What we are worried about is the level of bureaucracy involved in administering a program like that. What would be the most straightforward way of achieving this autonomy with respect to our immigration? Do we need more autonomy from the province to administer the Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program? Or can it operate through the Municipal Nominee Program? Or a combination of both?
That’s our current thinking on this. I’m pleased to hear that the minister will be going ahead with this program, because we are really interested in it.
Mr. Doumbia: I’d say that the federal minister has not had any direct consultations with the New Brunswick members.
The organization with which we have been most closely in touch, and which has been reaching out to us, is probably the Réseau de développement économique et d’employabilité, RDÉE Canada, which has been involved in some exploratory recruitment missions. The only time municipalities can see newcomers is during the exploratory visits, when the partnerships that have been established with a number of reception centres or people in the community receive these newcomers and direct them to the municipality so that they can learn about the various services available. Apart from that, there are no links; there are only dotted lines between the municipalities and the federal government — meaning IRCC — in this area.
Ms. Girard: More specifically, for the promotion and recruitment process, the CDEM, the Economic Development Council for Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities, attends Destination Canada job fairs. The CDEM always advises the province and makes sure that it provides the best possible promotion vis-à-vis potential French-speaking immigrants.
The Chair: Thank you very much. It’s now my turn to ask a few questions, because I don’t see any more questions coming from my colleagues.
As you no doubt know already, the mandate of the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship states that he must implement an ambitious national francophone immigration strategy. By hearing what you and the witnesses have had to say over the past few meetings, we have clearly learned that there are numerous immigration stakeholders at various levels. Some have recommended decentralizing or regionalizing immigration.
I’d like to hear what you, as municipalities, have to say about collaboration with other local and regional partners. Should this national strategy really promote regional sharing? In other words, and perhaps this is already happening, should there be funding to promote the coordination of immigration in the regions, with due regard to the particular features of the regions and partners directly affected? My limited experience in New Brunswick tells me that the players often work in silos. I don’t know what your point of view is on this, or how the department might help you be more strategically coordinated with your regional and local partners. That’s a question for everyone.
Mr. Doumbia: You are absolutely right, senator. As you pointed out, there are many players in the immigration sector, whether reception centres, rights organizations and all kinds of others trying to obtain funding to attract immigrants. I’d say that collaboration is a key factor in all of that. I don’t think that a single program that could bring all these stakeholders together exists yet. They could perhaps gravitate around the municipalities to tell them that they want to work in the field of immigration and advise them about what the municipalities and communities need to receive immigrants.
As an institution, how can you play a role to help us meet our needs? It doesn’t matter in the end if it’s the Municipal Nominee Program, but let’s say that if we are talking about an organization that defends the rights of francophones, it would want to have francophone immigrants because that would increase its leverage with governments. Each of them has a role or a mission with respect to newcomers. Because newcomers come to settle in municipalities, we have a unifying role to play in getting the stakeholders to meet the actual needs in our communities; after that, other needs could be addressed on behalf of the other organizations in the community.
Ms. Girard: Your conclusions seem to be relevant and interesting. The regionalization of immigration is inevitable and something the Association of Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities, the AMBM, is working towards.
Municipalities are the level of government and the democratic institutions that are closest to citizens. They have this profile because they are democratically elected organizations with their own leadership. They are accustomed to bringing other organizations together. In Manitoba, it’s obvious everywhere that they can only take action by relying on complementary key players in the immigration continuum. The AMBM is already involved in the Rivière-Seine Welcoming Francophone Community as a municipal partner. I think that what you said, Mr. Chair, is highly relevant to the success of regional francophone immigration, at least in the province of Manitoba.
The Chair: Is funding the main obstacle, or are there additional factors that make it more difficult to work collaboratively with others?
Ms. Girard: In most rural bilingual municipalities, we are just beginning. We are starting from scratch, and an enormous amount of organization is required to structure everything, including financial and human resources. One of the things we are planning is to have decentralized human resources. We also intend to have satellite regional offices. Our municipalities are small, and for them, it’s a daunting task. They therefore need a structure that will help them build partnerships. Private-sector partners need to be found, for housing, connectivity, the internet and all that. We’ll be like orchestra conductors; we are talking about resources, but at several different levels.
Mr. Doumbia: To expand upon this, it’s true that human and financial resources are an issue. Ultimately, if we want to be taken seriously, resources are required to go out and meet people, and have discussions with companies and the community to develop partnerships. Without resources, if the burden is shouldered entirely by municipalities, that creates pressure on their existing resources, and even more so for rural municipalities. As you pointed out, financial resources could definitely provide support.
The Chair: Thank you very much. I’m now going to give the floor to Senator Dagenais, who will no doubt be asking the final question at this meeting, which will be ending soon.
Senator Dagenais: I have a question for Ms. Girard on a specific matter. We know that Ottawa has set francophone immigration percentage targets, but that these are not necessarily consistent with circumstances in the country’s provinces.
Are francophone immigrants in Manitoba who decide to settle in a municipality that has a francophone community being told, no matter what the city in question might be, that they can receive municipal services in French and in fact live in French? If you have noticed any shortcomings, where might these be and how can we deal with them? I know that this is not an easy question, but I’m asking it anyway.
Ms. Girard: Thank you for the question. The straightforward answer is no, but I need to qualify my answer. Manitoba’s bilingual municipalities are mostly anglophone.
More than anything else, they are anglophone municipalities that have decided to acknowledge the French fact and their own francophone populations, and to do their utmost to provide municipal services in both official languages. Is it perfect? No. Is it running at 100%? No. One of the major issues the AMBM is dealing with is coaching these municipalities on how to gradually increase the provision of municipal services in both official languages. We are currently working on a municipal services maturity model accompanied by a draft resolution and an action plan for each municipality for the coming year. Each municipality will compare its performance in terms of several specific points listed in the maturity model and establish a time horizon for itself.
The AMBM is implementing this model so that progress can be made, in the expectation that within five years, we will be light years ahead of where we are now.
Some municipalities are more advanced than others. The Association of Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities has also been providing translation services for at least 15 years. Many of the municipal documents are translated immediately. Most of our members have the minutes of their municipal council meetings translated and made available in both official languages. There is still a great deal to be done, and that’s why we provide coaching and assistance on service delivery. That’s where things stand with us at the moment. We are moving forward slowly but steadily.
The Chair: Ms. Girard, Ms. Barclay, and Mr. Doumbia, thank you very much for your comments and your clear answers to our questions. In particular, I’d like to thank you for the work you are doing in your regions to ensure that francophone immigration is included among your strategies. We thank you wholeheartedly for your evidence today.
Dear colleagues, thank you for being here. I would ask the members of the steering committee to remain online, because we’re going to hold a meeting afterwards. As you know, we are going to begin our preliminary study of Bill C-13; the steering committee is therefore going to meet in order to come up with a suggested program for the committee members.
On that note, thank you very much. I wish you a pleasant evening and look forward to seeing you again soon.
(The committee adjourned.)