Journals of the Senate
45 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1996, Canada
Journals of the Senate
Issue 59
Tuesday, December 10, 1996
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams Anderson Andreychuk Angus Atkins Austin Bacon Beaudoin Berntson Bolduc Bonnell Bosa Bryden Buchanan Carstairs Cochrane Cogger Cohen Comeau Cools Corbin De Bané DeWare Di Nino Doody Fairbairn Forest Forrestall Ghitter Gigantès Grafstein Graham Gustafson Hays Hébert Hervieux-Payette Jessiman Johnson Kelleher Kelly Kenny Keon Kinsella Kirby Kolber Landry Lavoie-Roux Lewis Losier-Cool Lynch-Staunton MacDonald (Halifax) Meighen Mercier Milne Molgat Moore Murray Nolin Oliver Pearson Petten Phillips Pitfield Poulin Prud'homme Riel Rivest Rizzuto Robertson Robichaud Rompkey Rossiter St. Germain Simard Spivak Stanbury Stewart Stollery Stratton Taylor Tkachuk Twinn Watt Whelan Wood
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Lewis, Joint Chairman of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations, presented its Fourth Report (budget).
Ordered, That the Report be printed as an Appendix to the Journals of the Senate of this day and form part of the permanent records of this House.
(See Appendix at pages 749-758.)
The Honourable Senator Lewis moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wood, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,The Honourable Senator Graham moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Landry:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, December 11, 1996, at 1:30 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Lavoie-Roux tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Section of the Assemblée internationale des parlementaires de langue française (AIPLF), respecting its participation at the XXIInd regular session, held in Antananarivo, Madagascar, from July 8 to 10, 1996.-Sessional Paper No. 2/35-538.
The Honourable Senator Losier-Cool tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Section of the Assemblée internationale des parlementaires de langue française (AIPLF), respecting its participation at the Bureau meeting, held in Antananarivo, Madagascar, from July 6 to 8, 1996.-Sessional Paper No. 2/35-539.
Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,The Honourable Senator Stewart moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lewis:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs have power to sit at 3:30 p.m. today even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Whelan, P.C.:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. today even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator DeWare moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bolduc:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. today even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Presentation of Petitions
The Honourable Senator Wood presented petitions:
Of Residents of the Province of Alberta concerning Section 745 of the Criminal Code.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino presented petitions:
Of Residents of the Province of Ontario concerning Bill S-11, An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act.
SPEAKER'S STATEMENT
On Wednesday, December 4, just before the Senate adjourned for the day, a question of procedure was raised by the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton concerning how Orders of the Day may be proceeded with. The Senator asked about the practice relating to the disposition of items on the Order Paper that stand adjourned in the name of a Senator over an extended period of time. Senator Lynch-Staunton also asked whether the practice of adjourning items could delay or even prevent a vote on that item.
While I offered some preliminary comments, I also stated that I would look into the matter more closely and return to the Senate with my conclusions. The need to provide an explanation about this practice became apparent the next day, Thursday, December 5, when the adjourned debate on Bill S-13 standing in the name of Senator Lavoie-Roux was called and subsequently debated.
The adjournment of Order Paper items is governed by rule 49 of the Rules of the Senate. Part 1 of the rule dealing with the disposition of non-government items states:
A motion to adjourn a debate on an item, other than an item of government business, shall be deemed to be a motion to postpone that debate to the day specified in the motion, or, if no day is specified to the next sitting day. In either case, the said item shall stand on the Order Paper in the name of the Senator who moved the adjournment, or another Senator, if so indicated.
Part 2 relating to the disposition of government items states:
A motion to adjourn the debate on any item of government business shall be deemed to be a motion to postpone that debate to the next sitting day. In this case, the item shall not stand on the Orders of the Day or the Order Paper in any Senator's name and may be called pursuant to rule 27(1).
Prior to 1991, there was no distinction between government business and other business. Any item adjourned would stand on the Order Paper in the name of the Senator moving the adjournment. Since 1991, however, this distinction has been a feature of our practice. And while there has been no apparent difficulty with the application of this rule with respect to government items, the situation with respect to non-government items is not as clear as evidenced by the questions put to me by Senator Lynch-Staunton, December 4.
When an adjournment is proposed to the debate of an item other than government business and the motion carries, the item will stand on the Order Paper in the name of the Senator who moved the adjournment or the Senator on whose behalf the adjournment was proposed. The name of the Senator is indicated in parenthesis and it merely identifies which Senator moved the adjournment the last time the item was dealt with. It does not give that Senator alone the right to decide if that item will be proceeded with, though it has sometimes appeared that way because of the courtesy usually extended by the Senate towards the Senator who adjourned the item. This is apparent whenever a Senator desires to speak on an adjourned item already standing in the name of another Senator. This, of course, is precisely what happened December 4 when Senator Lavoie-Roux indicated that she wanted to speak to the motion originally proposed by Senator Beaudoin. Senator Petten, in whose name the motion was last adjourned, agreed so long as the item would continue to stand in his name.
While this might suggest that the Senate requires Senator Petten's consent, the fact is that it does not. As rule 49 explains when the item was last adjourned, it was adjourned either to a specified day or to the next sitting day and that day having arrived, the Senate can debate the item according to the order it has adopted. Usually, when a Senator requests that the item again be stood, the Senate complies by its silence and the Senate proceeds to the next item. Should the Senate decide to debate the item, the Senator who had adjourned it will usually be accorded the opportunity to speak first; otherwise any other Senator will be recognized to speak.
If the item is debated and again adjourned, it can stand in the name of the Senator who actually adjourned it that day or, if the Senate agrees, in the name of the Senator who had previously adjourned it. To allow our practice to operate any other way, could create a situation where a Senator who had adjourned the debate could continually adjourn an item until such time asrule 27(3) required that it be dropped from the Order Paper or, as Senator Lynch-Staunton supposed, it could allow a Senator to prevent any decision from being made. I do not believe that such an interpretation would be in the best interests of the Senate.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill C-45, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (judicial review of parole ineligibility) and another Act.
The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier, that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lavoie-Roux, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Second reading of Bill C-29, An Act to regulate interprovincial trade in and the importation for commercial purposes of certain manganese-based substances.
The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bonnell, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Berntson, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming the debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Roberge, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cohen, for the second reading of Bill S-10, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (criminal organization).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Berntson for the Honourable Senator Roberge moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Di Nino, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, for the second reading of Bill S-11, An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Berntson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Meighen, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 22 (motion) and 13 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Johnson, calling the attention of the Senate to the state of the arts in Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Bonnell moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Landry:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology be authorized to examine and report upon implementation by the Department of Veterans Affairs of measures to expedite the adjudication of pensions; and
That the Committee submit its report no later than June 30, 1997.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Graham for the Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Anderson:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs have power to sit at 3:15 p.m. on Wednesday, December 11, 1996, even though the Senate may then be sitting and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report on the administration of the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1996, pursuant to s. 57 (Part I) and 72 (Part II) of the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-17.-Sessional Paper No. 2/35-537.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Graham moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Landry:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senators Losier-Cool and Anderson substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Bryden and Moore (December 5).
The names of the Honourable Senators Murray and St. Germain substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Doyle and Nolin (December 6).
The name of the Honourable Senator Bryden substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Anderson (December 9).
The name of the Honourable Senator Moore substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool (December 10).
Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries
The name of the Honourable Senator Perrault substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Moore (December 5).
Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Poulin substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Mercier (December 5).
The name of the Honourable Senator Bacon substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Anderson (December 10).
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology
The name of the Honourable Senator Perrault substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Maheu (December 10).