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47 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1998, Canada

Journals of the Senate

Issue 102

Tuesday, December 8, 1998
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Johnstone, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lucier, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Phillips, Pitfield, Poulin, Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Tribute was paid to the Honourable Jean B. Forest, who resigned from the Senate on August 28, 1998. Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Comeau, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries tabled its Third Report entitled: "Privatization and Quota Licensing in Canada's Fisheries". -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-949S.

The Honourable Senator Comeau, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Tkachuk for the Honourable Senator Kirby, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, presented its Nineteenth Report (Bill C-53, An Act to increase the availability of financing for the establishment, expansion, modernization and improvement of small businesses) without amendment but with observations.

(The observations are printed as Appendix "A")

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C.:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, December 9, 1998, at 1:30 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., tabled the following:

Sixth Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association respecting its participation at the 44th Annual Session of the North Atlantic Assembly (NATO Parliamentarians), held in Edinburgh, United Kingdom, from November 9 to 13, 1998.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-950.

Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Kelly moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivest:

That the Special Senate Committee on Security and Intelligence be permitted, notwithstanding usual practices, to deposit its Report on the examination of the current international threat environment, with particular reference to terrorism as it relates to Canada with the Clerk of the Senate, if the Senate is not sitting; and that the Report be deemed to have been tabled in the Chamber; and

That, if before the prorogation of the present Session of Parliament, the Special Senate Committee on Security and Intelligence has adopted but not tabled its Report, the Honourable Senators authorized to act for and on behalf of the Senate in all matters relating to internal economy of the Senate during any period between sessions of Parliament, be authorized to publish and distribute the Report of the Committee.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting. Third reading of Bill C-20, An Act to amend the Competition Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, that the Bill be read the third time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cohen, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mahovlich, seconded by the Honourable Senator Butts, for the second reading of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Tobacco Act.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Mahovlich moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Second reading of Bill C-40, An Act respecting extradition, to amend the Canada Evidence Act, the Criminal Code, the Immigration Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act and to amend and repeal other Acts in consequence

The Honourable Senator Fraser moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ruck, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bolduc, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mint Act and the Currency Act.

The Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lucier, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 6 was called and postponed until the next sitting. Second reading of Bill C-60, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 1999.

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Motions

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C.:

That, in accordance with subsections 49(1) and 49(2) of the Act respecting the status and use of the official languages of Canada, Chapter O-3.01 of the Revised Statutes of Canada 1985, this House approves the appointment of Dyane Adam as Commissioner of Official Languages for Canada for a term of seven years.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

_____________________________________

With leave, The Senate reverted to Presentation of Reports From Standing or Special Committees. The Honourable Senator Milne presented the following:

TUESDAY, December 8, 1998

The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has the honour to present its

SIXTEENTH REPORT

Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-3, An Act respecting DNA identification and to make consequential amendments to the Criminal Code and other Acts, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Thursday, October 22, 1998, examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment.

However, your Committee received the following undertakings from the Solicitor General and his officials, including the Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police:

- The Solicitor General will, during the anticipated 18-month hiatus between Royal Assent and the coming into force of Bill C-3, proceed with a new bill that will bring within the ambit of the DNA data bank those offenders who are convicted in the military justice system;

- The new bill will also give Senate and House of Commons committees the same authority to conduct the five-year review required under Bill C-3;

- The Commissioner of the RCMP, supported by the Solicitor General, agreed to the creation of an independent advisory committee, including a representative from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, that would oversee the implementation of the Act and the ongoing administration of the DNA data bank. Your Committee urges the Solicitor General to include the appointment of the advisory committee in regulations to the Act;

- The Solicitor General agreed that the regulations to Bill C-3 would be prepublished and available to the Senate for comment and evaluation;

- The Commissioner of the RCMP undertook to include a report on the operation of the DNA data bank as part of his annual report to the Minister which would then be tabled in Parliament;

- Officials from the Department of the Solicitor General also agreed to clarify in regulations that what is meant by "DNA profile" is "not a profile for medical reasons," but for law enforcement purposes only. This would address your Committee's concern that forensic DNA analysis utilise only those markers that do not predict any medical, physical or mental characteristics, in order to protect the genetic privacy of those individuals included in the data bank;

- In response to your Committee's concern about the highly sensitive nature of the information contained within the data bank and the rapidity of technological change, the Solicitor General agreed to consider including within the proposed new bill, provision for parliamentary review every five years.

Your Committee recognizes the pressing need for a national DNA data bank that will enable Canadian law enforcement agencies to make full use of recent technological advances for the benefit of enhanced public safety. However, Committee members are also concerned that the proposed legislation may affect the privacy of Canadians in unprecedented and unintentional ways. In addition, your Committee believes that the nature of the information contained in the proposed DNA data bank calls for the strict monitoring of any process that would allow for its release to governments or agencies outside Canada.

Your Committee welcomes the undertakings made in the course of these hearings and recognizes that they will substantially address many of the concerns raised by Committee members. A copy of a letter from the Solicitor General to the Chair of your Committee, dated December 1, 1998, is appended to this report.

Respectfully submitted,

LORNA MILNE

Chair

(A copy of the letter to the Chair of the Committee from the Solicitor General is printed as Appendix "B" at pages 1186 - 1187).

The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Butts, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Commons Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Consideration of the Fourteenth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology (Bill S-20, An Act to amend the Act of incorporation of the Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation of Mackenzie, with amendments) presented in the Senate on December 3, 1998.

The Honourable Senator Taylor moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Taylor moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, that the Bill as amended be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting. The Order was called to resume debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Milne, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, for the adoption of the Twelfth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs (Bill S-15, An Act respecting the declaration of royal assent by the Governor General in the Queen's name to bills passed by the Houses of Parliament, with amendments) presented in the Senate on June 18, 1998,

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that the Report be not now adopted, but that it be referred back to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs for further consideration.

SPEAKER'S RULING

Last Tuesday, December 1, during debate on the motion to adopt the twelfth report of the Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs respecting Bill S-15 and the motion in amendment of Senator Grafstein, Senator Lynch-Staunton sought leave to withdraw the bill. In making his request, he expressed some reservation about his right to do so. For my part, I, too, had certain doubts about the acceptability of the request given that the Senate was in fact debating the report on the bill rather than the bill itself. Senator Kinsella correctly pointed to the novel aspects of this proceeding. Subsequently, I agreed to take the matter under advisement.

I have now had an opportunity to assess the propriety of Senator Lynch-Staunton's request from a procedural point of view and I am prepared to rule on it.

Rule 30 establishes the right of a Senator who has made a motion or inquiry to withdraw or modify the same by leave of the Senate. Certainly then, Senator Lynch-Staunton seems to be within his rights to make such a request. Indeed, Erskine May 22nd edition at page 467 notes that "a bill originating in the House of Lords may (with the leave of the House, granted without a dissenting voice) be withdrawn by the Lord who presented it at any time after first reading."

However, there are certain restrictions that need to be taken into consideration before deciding if the request of Senator Lynch-Staunton can be accepted now, at this stage, while the Senate is debating a report recommending amendments to Bill S-15.

According to Beauchesne 6th edition, citation 587 at page 178, a motion cannot be withdrawn by leave whenever there is also an amendment to be disposed of since the question on the amendment stands before the original motion. In this particular case, what we are dealing with now is the report of the Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs and the amendment of Senator Grafstein to refer the bill back to the Committee. Bill S-15 itself is not actually before the Senate for debate. As I understand it then, it would be necessary to dispose of Senator Grafstein's amendment and the report, before the Senate would be debating the bill. Until that happens, I do not believe that Senator Lynch-Staunton is entitled to make a request to withdraw the bill.

Debate on the amendment of Senator Grafstein can now resume. The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Milne, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, for the adoption of the Twelfth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs (Bill S-15, An Act respecting the declaration of royal assent by the Governor General in the Queen's name to bills passed by the Houses of Parliament, with amendments) presented in the Senate on June 18, 1998,

After debate, With leave of the Senate, the motion in amendment was withdrawn; the Order for the adoption of the Twelfth Report was discharged; and Bill S-15 was withdrawn. Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Orders No. 48, 50 and 49 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Simard calling the attention of the Senate to the current situation with regard to the application of the Official Languages Act, its progressive deterioration, the abdication of responsibility by a succession of governments over the past ten years and the loss of access to services in French for francophones outside Quebec.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Corbin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 99, 45, 1 (motions) and 39 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Kinsella calling the attention of the Senate to the Responses to the Supplementary Questions emitted by the United Nations Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights on Canada's Third Report on the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

After debate, The Honourable Senator DeWare moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 44, 15 (inquiries) and 1 (other) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carney, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Bolduc:

That the Senate supports the granting of funding for legal counsel to complainants at the APEC hearing in Vancouver before the RCMP Public Complaints Commission.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Pépin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Wilson calling the attention of the Senate to the fiftieth anniversary year of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, and its implications for Canada.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Roche moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Spivak calling the attention of the Senate to the differences between the proposed Multilateral Agreement on Investment and the NAFTA

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Eyton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

INQUIRIES

The Honourable Senator Milne called the attention of the Senate to the state of this year's fibre hemp crop.

Debate concluded. The Honourable Senator Roche called the attention of the Senate to the election of Canada to the United Nations' Security Council for 1999-2000, and Canada's role in contributing to peace, global security and human rights in the world on the eve of the new millennium.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Hays called the attention of the Senate to the third annual visit of the Canada-Japan Inter-Parliamentary Group with Diet Members in Japan from May 22 to June 2; the Ninth Annual Meeting between the Canada-Japan Inter-Parliamentary Group and the Japan-Canada Parliamentarians Friendship League, held in Alberta from August 21 to 28; the Executive Committee Meeting of the Asia-Pacific Parliamentary Forum, held in Peru from September 6 to 8; and the Sixth General Assembly of the Asia-Pacific Parliamentarians' Conference on Environment and Development, held in China from October 14 to 18, 1998.

Debate concluded.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:

That Rule 86(1) of the Rules of the Senate be amended by inserting immediately after paragraph (q) the following new paragraph (r):

"(r) The Senate Committee on Human Rights and Funda mental Freedoms, composed of twelve members, four of whom shall constitute a quorum, to which shall be referred, on order of the Senate, bills, messages, petitions, inquiries, papers and other matters relating to the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms."

After debate, The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

A Message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill C-25, An Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts,

And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons have agreed to the amendment made by the Senate to this Bill, without amendment. A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-43, An Act to establish the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency and to amend and repeal other Acts as a consequence, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Thursday next, December 10, 1998.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Report of the President of the Treasury Board on the administration of the Alternative Fuels Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-948.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

_____________________________________

Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce

The names of the Honourable Senators Austin, Kirby, Kenny and Kolber substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Maloney, Perrault, Stollery and Kroft (December 7).

The name of the Honourable Senator Kroft substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Callbeck (December 8).

Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

The name of the Honourable Senator Pearson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Pépin (December 7).

Journals of the Senate

47 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1998, Canada

Journals of the Senate

Issue 102

Tuesday, December 8, 19982:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

Government Notices of Motions

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

Notices of Motions

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Motions

ORDERS OF THE DAY

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Commons Public Bills

Reports of Committees

Other

INQUIRIES

MOTIONS

MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

ADJOURNMENT

Tuesday, December 8, 1998
2:00 p.m.