Journals of the Senate
52 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2003, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 88
Thursday, October 23, 2003
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Joyal, Kirby, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, *Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, *Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, *Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, *Jaffer, Joyal, *Keon, Kirby, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, *Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Merchant, Milne, Moore, *Morin, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Wiebe
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Kirby, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, presented its Thirteenth Report (Bill S-3, An Act to amend the National Anthem Act to include all Canadians) without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Poy moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Day, Member of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, presented its Sixteenth Report (budget—Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs —study on veterans benefits).
(The Report is printed as an Appendix)
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-49, An Act respecting the effective date of the representation order of 2003, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Smith, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-53, An Act to change the names of certain electoral districts, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Introduction and First Reading of Senate Public Bills
The Honourable Senator Nolin presented a Bill S-24, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act (modernization of employment and labour relations).
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Presentation of Petitions
The Honourable Senator Gauthier presented petitions:
Of Residents of the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec with respect to declaring Ottawa officially bilingual.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
The Order was called for the second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend certain Acts.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Following my ruling on a point of order regarding the title of Bill C-41, Senator Stratton raised another point of order respecting two other alleged problems with this bill. The first has to do with its short title; the second relates to its omnibus character.
Quoting a specific Standing Order of the other place as well as some Canadian parliamentary and legal authorities, Senator Stratton claimed that the short title of Bill C-41 is irredeemably flawed. Furthermore, according to two authorities, the Chief Opposition Whip maintained that Bill C-41, as an amending bill, should not have a short title at all. As to the content of the bill, the Senator argued that it has no unifying theme and this fact makes the bill inherently offensive to the legislative process. In conclusion, Senator Stratton contended that Bill C-41 is fundamentally defective in both structure and form. It should, he said, be withdrawn or simply returned to the other place.
Speaking in response to this point of order, Senator Carstairs began by stating how the rules and practices of the other place are not the proper concern of the Senate. The Government Leader then proceeded to explain that miscellaneous statute law amendment bills and technical corrections bills can encompass a wide range of statutes. The only difference between the two, as the Senator noted, is that the MSLA bills do not contain any controversial amendments whereas technical corrections bills can. Both, however, are omnibus in character with the potential to address many different and disparate Acts.
Senator Cools also participated in the discussion on this point of order. The Senator raised several issues in her intervention. First, Senator Cools expressed her understanding of the nature of these omnibus amendment bills suggesting that they did indeed have to possess a common theme. Second, the Senator noted that there has been at least one case in the Senate of the Speaker ruling a bill out of order. In this connection, Senator Cools cited her own experience with Bill S-11, the Homolka bill that was the object of a Speaker's ruling in 1995. The Senator also made some interesting comments on the nature of precedents and practice.
I wish to thank Honourable Senators for their contributions to the discussion on this point of order. I am prepared to rule on it now.
As I noted in my earlier ruling on Bill C-41, this bill has come to the Senate from the House of Commons. It did not originate in the Senate. Whatever process of consideration might have been followed in the other place with respect to Bill C-41, it is not a matter that can properly be raised in the Senate. As to the matter of this amending bill having a short title, this feature, even if it may be unusual, cannot, in my view, be regarded as fatal. The presence of a short title to this bill does not, and cannot, constitute a valid ground for me as Speaker to rule it out of order.
It is acknowledged that Bill C-41 is an omnibus bill that seeks to amend or correct a number of statutes. I am unaware of any requirement that such a bill must possess a common theme and no authority has been cited to substantiate such a claim. To the contrary, I am aware of numerous miscellaneous statute law amendment bills and some technical corrections bills in the past that have address many different Acts within the same bill. This is nothing new and Bill C-41 is no different in this respect.
Accordingly, I rule that there is no valid point of order in this case and second reading of Bill C-41 can now proceed.
Second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend certain Acts.
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the Bill.
Debate.
DEFERRED VOTE
At 3:30 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted October 22, 2003, the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred standing vote on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Beaudoin to the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Harb, for the third reading of Bill C-25, An Act to modernize employment and labour relations in the public service and to amend the Financial Administration Act and the Canadian Centre for Management Development Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.
The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Comeau, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 12, on page 126, by replacing lines 8 to 12 with the following:
``30. (1) Appointments by the Commission to or from within the public service shall be free from political influence and shall be made on the basis of merit by competition or by such other process of personnel selection designed to establish the relative merit of candidates as the Commission considers is in the best interests of the public service.
(1.1) Despite subsection (1), an appointment may be made on the basis of individual merit in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations of the Commission.
(2) An appointment is made on the basis of individual''.
The motion in amendment was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Cochrane, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, LeBreton, Lynch- Staunton, Nolin, Prud'homme, Robertson, Stratton, Tkachuk—16
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Downe, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fraser, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Joyal, LaPierre, Lavigne, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Plamondon, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Stollery, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Wiebe—51
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil\Aucun
Bills
The Senate resumed debate of the Point of Order respecting the acceptability of Bill C-41, An Act to amend certain Acts.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
Orders No. 5 and 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That, pursuant to Rule 39, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated for the consideration for second reading of Bill C-34, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence;
That when debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceedings then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the second reading of the said Bill; and
That any recorded vote or votes on the said question be taken in accordance with Rule 39(4).
Debate.
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Pursuant to Rule 13(1), the Speaker left the Chair to resume the same at 8:00 p.m.
The sitting resumed.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That, pursuant to Rule 39, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated for the consideration for second reading of Bill C-34, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence;
That when debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceedings then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the second reading of the said Bill; and
That any recorded vote or votes on the said question be taken in accordance with Rule 39(4).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Hubley, LaPierre, Léger, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Merchant, Milne, Pearson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Trenholme Counsell, Wiebe—28
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Cochrane, Grafstein, Joyal, Lynch-Staunton, Sparrow, Stratton—9
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Corbin, Prud'homme—3
Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-34, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence.
After debate,
The question was put on the motion.
With leave of the Senate, a standing vote was deferred until 5:00 p.m. on Monday, October 27, 2003, with the bells to sound at 4:30 p.m. for thirty minutes.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Harb, for the third reading of Bill C-25, An Act to modernize employment and labour relations in the public service and to amend the Financial Administration Act and the Canadian Centre for Management Development Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
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Ordered, That Motion No. 158 standing in the name of the Honourable Senator Kenny be brought forward.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Senator Wiebe for the Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence have power to sit at 5:30 p.m. on Monday, October 27, 2003, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Monday, October 27, 2003, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Canadian International Trade Tribunal entitled ``Request for Tariff Relief by Peerless Clothing Inc. Regarding Woven Fabrics of Polyester/Cotton'', dated September 30, 2003, pursuant to the Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act, S.C. 1988, c. 65, s. 54.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-747.
Reports of the Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-748.
Reports of the Department of Health for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-749.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 11:08 p.m. the Senate was continued until Monday, October 27, 2003, at 2:00 p.m.)
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Stratton substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Meighen (October 22).
The names of the Honourable Senators Eyton and Oliver substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Kelleher and Stratton (October 23).
Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans
The name of the Honourable Senator Cook substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Robichaud (October 22).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Banks substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Jaffer (October 23).