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Journals of the Senate

52 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2003, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 37th Parliament


Issue 90

Tuesday, October 28, 2003
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker


The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, St. Germain, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Wiebe

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, *Carney, Carstairs, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, *Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, St. Germain, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Wiebe

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., Joint Chair of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations, tabled its Third Report (broadcasting licence fees).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-763S.

The Honourable Senator Day for the Honourable Senator Kenny, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, tabled its Seventeenth Report (Interim) entitled: Canada's Coastlines: The Longest Under-Defended Borders in the World.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-764S.

Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robertson:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry have power to sit at 5:30 p.m. today, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Presentation of Petitions

The Honourable Senator Gauthier presented petitions:

Of Residents of the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec with respect to declaring Ottawa officially bilingual.

DEFERRED VOTE

At 3:30 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted October 27, 2003, the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred standing vote on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton to the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Harb, for the third reading of Bill C-25, An Act to modernize employment and labour relations in the public service and to amend the Financial Administration Act and the Canadian Centre for Management Development Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kelleher, P.C., that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 230, on page 249, in the French version,

(a) by replacing line 32 with the following:

"saire, commissaire délégué et employés de''; and

(b) by replacing line 34 with the following:

"les commissaire et commissaire délégué sont''.

The motion in amendment was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Doody, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, Johnson, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Nolin, Oliver, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robertson, Roche, St. Germain, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk—27

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Bacon, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Downe, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, Léger, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Merchant, Milne, Morin, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Stollery, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Wiebe—55

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Harb, for the third reading of Bill C-25, An Act to modernize employment and labour relations in the public service and to amend the Financial Administration Act and the Canadian Centre for Management Development Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

After debate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

(a) in clause 2

(i) on page 8, by replacing lines 27 to 32 with the following:

"include, among other things, harassment in the workplace.'', and

(ii) on page 99, by adding after line 8, the following:

"PART 2.1

PROTECTION OF WHISTLEBLOWERS

Definitions

238.1 The following definitions apply in this Part.

"Commissioner'' means the commissioner of the Public Service Commission who has been designated as Public Interest Commissioner under section 238.3.
"employee'' has the same meaning as in Part 2.
"law in force in Canada'' means a provision of an Act of Parliament or of the legislature of a province or an instrument issued under the authority of such an Act that is in force at the relevant time.
"minister'' means a member of the Queens Privy Council for Canada who holds office as a minister of the Crown.
"wrongful act or omission'' means an act or omission that is:
(a) an offence against a law in force in Canada;
(b) likely to cause a significant waste of public money;
(c) likely to endanger public health or safety or the environment;
(d) a significant breach of an established public policy or of a directive in the written record of the public service; or
(e) one of gross mismanagement or an abuse of authority.

Purpose

Purpose

238.2 The purpose of this Part is

(a) to provide for the education of persons working in the public service on ethical practices in the workplace and the promotion of the observance of these practices;

(b) to protect the public interest by providing a means for employees of the public service to make allegations, in confidence, of wrongful acts or omissions in the workplace, to an independent Commissioner who will investigate them and seek to have the situation dealt with, and who will report to Parliament in respect of problems that are confirmed but have not been dealt with; and

(c) to protect employees of the public service from retaliation for having made or for proposing to make, in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief, allegations of wrongdoing in the workplace.

Public Interest Commissioner

Designation

238.3.(1) The Governor in Council shall designate one of the commissioners of the Public Service Commission to serve as Public Interest Commissioner.

Part of role of Commission

(2) The role of Public Interest Commissioner is a part of the function of the Public Service Commission.

Powers

(3) The Commissioner may exercise the powers of office of a commissioner of the Public Service Commission for the purposes of this Part.

Information made public

238.4 (1) Subject to section 238.9, the Commissioner may make public any information that comes to the attention of the Commissioner as a result of the performance or exercise of the Commissioner's duties or powers under this Part if, in the Commissioner's opinion, it is in the public interest to do so.

Disclosure of necessary information

(2) The Commissioner may disclose, or may authorize any person acting on behalf or under the direction of the Commissioner to disclose, information that, in the Commissioner's opinion, is necessary to

(a) conduct an investigation under this Part; or

(b) establish the grounds for findings or recommendations contained in any report made under this Part.

Disclosure in the course of proceedings

(3) The Commissioner may disclose, or may authorize any person acting on behalf or under the direction of the Commissioner to disclose, information necessary to assist

(a) a prosecution for an offence under section 238.20; or

(b) a prosecution for an offence under section 131 of the Criminal Code (perjury) in respect of a statement made under this Part.

Disclosure of offence

(4) The Commissioner may disclose to the Attorney General of Canada or of a province, as the case may be, information relating to the commission of an offence against any law in force in Canada that comes to the attention of the Commissioner as a result of the performance or exercise of the Commissioner's duties or powers under this Part if, in the Commissioner's opinion, there is evidence of an offence.

Not competent witness

238.5 The Commissioner or person acting on behalf or under the direction of the Commissioner is not a competent witness in respect of any matter that comes to their knowledge as a result of the performance or exercise of the Commissioner's duties or powers under this Part in any proceeding other than

(a) a prosecution for an offence under section 238.20; or

(b) a prosecution for an offence under section 131 of the Criminal Code (perjury) in respect of a statement made under this Part.

Protection of Commissioner

238.6 (1) No criminal or civil proceedings lie against the Commissioner, or against any person acting on behalf or under the direction of the Commissioner, for anything done, reported or said in good faith as a result of the performance or exercise or purported performance or exercise of the Commissioner's duties or powers under this Part.

Libel or slander

(2) For the purposes of any law relating to libel or slander,

(a) anything said, any information supplied or any record or thing produced in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief in the course of an investigation carried out by or on behalf of the Commissioner under this Part is privileged; and

(b) any report made in good faith by the Commissioner under this Part and any fair and accurate account of the report made in good faith for the purpose of news reporting is privileged.

Education

Dissemination

238.7 The Commissioner shall promote ethical practices in the public service and a positive environment for giving notice of wrongdoing, by disseminating knowledge of this Part and information about its purposes and processes and by such other means as seem fit to the Commissioner.

Notice of Wrongful Act or Omission

Notice by employee

238.8 (1) An employee who has reasonable grounds to believe that another person working for the public service or in the public service workplace has committed or intends to commit a wrongful act or omission

(a) may file with the Commissioner a written notice of allegation; and

(b) may request that their identity be kept confidential with respect to the notice.

Form and content

(2) A notice under subsection (1) shall identify

(a) the employee making the allegation, and be signed by that person;

(b) the person against whom the allegation is being made; and

(c) the grounds on which the employee believes that the act or omission is wrongful and has been or will be committed, giving the particulars that are known to the employee and the reasons and the grounds on which the employee believes the particulars to be true.

No breach of oath

(3) A notice by an employee to the Commissioner under subsection (1), given in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief, is not a breach of any oath of office or loyalty or secrecy taken by the employee and, subject to subsection (4), is not a breach of duty.

Solicitor-client privilege

(4) No employee, in giving notice under subsection (1), may violate any law in force in Canada or rule of law protecting privileged communications as between solicitor and client, unless the employee has reasonable grounds to believe there is a significant threat to public health or safety.

Waiver

(5) An employee who has made a request under paragraph (1)(b) may waive the request or any resulting right to confidentiality, in writing, at any time.

Rejected notice

(6) Where the Commissioner is not able or willing to give an assurance of confidentiality in response to a request made under paragraph (1)(b), the Commissioner may reject the notice and take no further action on it, but shall keep it confidential.

Confidentiality

238.9 Subject to subsection 238.11(5) and any other obligation of the Commissioner under this Part or any law in force in Canada, the Commissioner shall keep confidential the identity of an employee who has filed a notice with the Commissioner under subsection 238.8(1) and to whom the Commissioner has given an assurance that, subject to this Part, their identity will be kept confidential.

Initial review

238.10 On receiving a notice under subsection 238.8(1), the Commissioner shall review it, may ask the employee for further information and may make such further inquiries as, in the opinion of the Commissioner, may be necessary.

Rejected notices

238.11 (1) The Commissioner shall reject and take no further action on a notice given under subsection 238.8(1), if the Commissioner makes a preliminary determination that the notice

(a) is trivial, frivolous or vexatious;

(b) fails to allege or give adequate particulars of a wrongful act or omission;

(c) breaches subsection 238.8(4); or

(d) was not given in good faith or on the basis of reasonable belief.

False statements

(2) The Commissioner may determine that a notice that contains a statement that the employee knew to be false or misleading at the time it was made was not given in good faith.

Mistaken facts

(3) The Commissioner shall not determine that a notice was not given in good faith for the sole reason that it contains mistaken facts unless the Commissioner has grounds to believe that there was adequate opportunity for the employee to discover the mistake.

Report

(4) Where the Commissioner has made a determination under subsection (1), the Commissioner shall, in writing and on a timely basis, advise the employee who gave notice under subsection 238.8(1) of that determination.

Report to official and minister

(5) Where the Commissioner determines under subsection (1) that a notice was given in breach of subsection 238.8(4) or was not given in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief, the Commissioner may advise

(a) the person against whom the allegation was made, and

(b) the minister responsible for the employee who gave the notice of the matters alleged and the identity of the employee.

Valid notice

238.12 (1) The Commissioner shall accept a notice given under subsection 238.8(1) where the Commissioner determines that the notice

(a) is not trivial, frivolous or vexatious;

(b) alleges and gives adequate particulars of a wrongful act or omission;

(c) does not breach subsection 238.8(4); and

(d) was given in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief.

Report to employee

(2) Where the Commissioner has made a determination under subsection (1), the Commissioner shall, in writing and on a timely basis, advise the employee who gave notice under subsection 238.8(1) of that determination.

Investigation and Report

Investigation

238.13 (1) The Commissioner shall investigate a notice accepted under section 238.12, and, subject to subsection (2), shall prepare a written report of the Commissioner's findings and recommendations.

Report not required

(2) The Commissioner is not required to prepare a report if satisfied that

(a) the employee ought to first exhaust other procedures available to the employee;

(b) the matter could more appropriately be dealt with, initially or completely, by means of a procedure provided for under a law in force in Canada other than this Part; or

(c) the length of time that has elapsed between the time the wrongful act or omission that is the subject- matter of the notice occurred and the date when the notice was filed is such that a report would not serve a useful purpose.

Report to employee

(3) Where the Commissioner has made a determination under subsection (2), the Commissioner shall, in writing and on a timely basis, advise the employee who gave notice under subsection 238.8(1) of that determination.

Confidential information

(4) Information related to an investigation is confidential and shall not be disclosed, except in accordance with this Part.

Report to minister

(5) The Commissioner shall provide the minister responsible for the employee against whom an allegation has been made, on a timely basis and in no case later than one year after the Commissioner receives the notice, with a copy of the report made under subsection (1).

Minister's response

238.14 (1) A minister who receives a report under subsection 238.13(5) shall consider the matter and respond to the Commissioner.

Content of response

(2) The response of a minister under subsection (1) shall specify the action the minister has taken or proposes to take to deal with the Commissioner's report, or that the minister proposes to take no action.

Further responses

(3) A minister who, for the purposes of this section, specifies action proposed to be taken shall give such further responses as are requested by the Commissioner until such time as the minister advises that the matter has been dealt with.

Emergency public report

238.15 (1) The Commissioner may require the President of the Treasury Board to cause an emergency report prepared by the Commissioner to be laid before both Houses of Parliament on the next day that the House sits if, in the Commissioner's opinion, it is in the public interest to do so.

Content of report

(2) A report prepared by the Commissioner for the purposes of subsection (1) shall describe the substance of a report made to a minister under subsection 238.13(5) and the minister's response or lack thereof under section 238.14.

Annual report

238.16 (1) The Public Service Commission shall include in the annual report to Parliament made pursuant to section 23 of the Public Service Employment Act a statement of activity under this Act prepared by the Commissioner that includes

(a) a description of the Commissioner's activities under section 238.7;

(b) the number of notices received pursuant to section 238.8;

(c) the number of notices rejected pursuant to sections 238.8 and 238.11

(d) the number of notices accepted pursuant to section 238.12;

(e) the number of accepted notices that are still under investigation pursuant to subsection 238.13(1);

(f) the number of accepted notices that were reported to ministers pursuant to subsection 238.13(5);

(g) the number of reports to ministers pursuant to subsection 238.13(5) in respect of which action satisfactory to the Commissioner has been taken;

(h) the number of reports to ministers pursuant to subsection 238.13(5) in respect of which action satisfactory to the Commissioner has not been taken;

(i) an abstract of the substance of all reports to ministers pursuant to subsection 238.13(5) and the responses of ministers pursuant to section 238.14; and

(j) where the Commissioner is of the opinion that the public interest would be best served, the substance of an individual report made to a minister pursuant to subsection 238.13(5) and the response or lack thereof of a minister pursuant to section 238.14.

Annual report

(2) The Public Service Commission may include in the annual report to Parliament made pursuant to section 23 of the Public Service Employment Act an analysis of the administration and operation of this Part and any recommendations with respect to it.

Prohibitions

False information

238.17 (1) No person shall give false information to the Commissioner or to any person acting on behalf or under the direction of the Commissioner while the Commissioner or person is engaged in the performance or exercise of the Commissioner's duties or powers under this Part.

Bad faith

(2) No employee shall give a notice under subsection 238.8(1) in bad faith.

No disciplinary action

238.18 (1) No person shall take disciplinary action against an employee because

(a) the employee, acting in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief, has disclosed or stated an intention to disclose to the Commissioner that a person working for the public service or in the public service workplace has committed or intends to commit a wrongful act or omission;

(b) the employee, acting in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief, has refused or stated an intention to refuse to commit an act or omission the employee believes would be a wrongful act or omission under this Part;

(c) the employee, acting in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief, has done or stated an intention of doing anything that is required to be done in order to comply with this Part; or

(d) the person believes that the employee will do anything referred to in paragraph (a), (b) or (c).

Definition

(2) In this section, "disciplinary action'' means any action that adversely affects the employee or any term or condition of the employee's employment or adversely affects the employee's opportunity for future employment within or outside the public service, and includes:

(a) harassment;

(b) financial penalty;

(c) affecting seniority;

(d) suspension or dismissal;

(e) denial of meaningful work or demotion;

(f) denial of a benefit of employment;

(g) refusing to give a reference; or

(h) any other action that is disadvantageous to the employee.

Rebuttable presumption

(3) A person who takes disciplinary action against an employee within two years after the employee gives a notice to the Commissioner under subsection 238.8(1) shall be presumed, in the absence of a preponderance of evidence to the contrary, to have taken the disciplinary action against the employee contrary to subsection (1).

Disclosure prohibited

238.19 (1) Except as authorized by this Part or any other law in force in Canada, no person shall disclose to any other person the name of the employee who has given a notice under subsection 238.8(1) and has requested confidentiality under that subsection, or any other information the disclosure of which reveals the employee's identity, which may include the existence or nature of a notice, without the employee's consent.

Exception

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply where the notice was given in breach of subsection 238.8(4) or was not given in good faith and on the basis of reasonable belief.

Enforcement

Offences and punishment

238.20 A person who contravenes subsection 238.8(4), section 238.17, or subsection 238.18(1) or 238.19(1) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $10,000.

Employee Recourse

Recourse available

238.21 (1) An employee against whom disciplinary action is taken contrary to section 238.18 is entitled to use every recourse available to the employee under the law, including grievance proceedings provided for under an Act of Parliament or otherwise.

Recourse not lost

(2) An employee may seek recourse as described in subsection (1) whether or not proceedings based upon the same allegations of fact are or may be brought under section 238.20.

Benefit of presumption

(3) In any proceedings of a recourse referred to in subsection (1), the employee is entitled to the benefit of the presumption established in subsection 238.18(3).

Transitional

(4) Where grievance proceedings are current or pending on the coming into force of this Part, the proceedings shall be dealt with and disposed of as if this Part had not been enacted.''; and

(b) in clause 8 on page 108,

(i) by striking out lines 13 to 20, and

(ii) by relettering paragraphs 11.1(1)(i) and 11.1(1)(j) as paragraphs 11.1(1)(h) and 11.1(1)(i) and any cross references thereto accordingly; and

(c) in clause 88 on page 193, by adding after line 17, the following:

"88.1 Schedule II to the Act is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order:

Public Service Labour Relations Act
section 238.9, subsection 238.13(4), section 238.19

Loi sur les relations de travail dans la fonction publique
article 238.9, paragraphe 238.13(4), article 238.19.''.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C.:

That, with respect to the House of Commons Message to the Senate dated September 29, 2003 regarding Bill C-10B:

(i) the Senate do not insist on its amendment numbered 2;

(ii) the Senate do not insist on its modified version of amendment numbered 3 to which the House of Commons disagreed;

(iii) the Senate do not insist on its modified version of amendment numbered 4, but it do concur in the amendment made by the House of Commons to amendment numbered 4; and

That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Watt moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that the motion, together with the message from the House of Commons dated September 29, 2003, regarding Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals), be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs for consideration and report.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Bryden moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pearson, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Watt tabled the following:

Letters of support from Aboriginal leaders concerning Bill C-10B. (English text)—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-765S.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-17, An Act to amend certain Acts of Canada, and to enact measures for implementing the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention, in order to enhance public safety.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Smith, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger, for the second reading of Bill C-49, An Act respecting the effective date of the representation order of 2003.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Order No. 5 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

The order was called for the second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend certain Acts.

SPEAKER'S RULING

Last Thursday, October 23, 2003, Senator Atkins raised a point of order on the acceptability of Bill C-41, An Act to amend certain Acts. This bill has already been the subject of two rulings.

The basic objection raised by Senator Atkins has to do with the complexity of the bill. This complexity arises in connection with the bill's coordinating amendments. Some of the clauses in Bill C-41 have a direct relationship to Bill C-25, the Public Service Modernization Act, that has been adopted by the House of Commons and is currently at third reading stage here in the Senate.

It is Senator Atkins' view that Bill C-41 violates the rule of anticipation because these coordinating amendments assume that the Senate will dispose of Bill C-25 in a certain way. Consideration of Bill C-41, the Senator argues, should not be allowed to proceed until the Senate has completed its examination of Bill C-25. "The government has assumed,'' Senator Atkins said, "that the Senate will pass Bill C-25. It is assumed that the Senate will not make changes to Bill C- 25 in terms of terminology used in the bill.''

For her part, Senator Carstairs agreed that there are coordinating amendments in Bill C-41. Their purpose, as the Leader of the Government explained, "is to resolve possible conflicts between successive amendments to the same provision and to avoid having one bill undo the work of another.''

I have taken the opportunity to review the relevant amendments and I am now prepared to give my ruling. As Senator Atkins pointed out when he referred to Beauchesne, a standard Canadian parliamentary authority, the purpose of the rule of anticipation is to avoid having the House debate an item that might anticipate debate on the same subject in a more effective form. Debate on an amendment, for example, could violate the rule of anticipation if it blocked debate on a motion or, more importantly, on a bill or any other Order of the Day. This rule is not always easily understood, but its purpose is related to the rule and practice of avoiding debate on the same question twice.

In this particular case, the rule of anticipation does not come into play. This is because the rule cannot be invoked where the item or subject being anticipated is in an equally effective form. The alleged anticipation involves coordinated clauses contained in two separate bills, Bill C-25 and Bill C-41. Being clauses to bills, they are in equally effective form. Furthermore, the same question rule, which is related to the rule of anticipation, is not always applicable to cases involving legislation. This is particularly the case with a bill such as Bill C-41, the very purpose of which is to make technical corrections to various bills or statutes including Bill C-25.

Accordingly, it is my ruling that there is no point of order and debate on Bill C-41 can now proceed.

Second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend certain Acts.

A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the Bill.

After debate,

The Speaker reserved his decision.

Reports of Committees

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Biron, for the adoption of the Ninth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance (Supplementary Estimates (A) 2003-2004), presented in the Senate on October 22, 2003.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-36, An Act to establish the Library and Archives of Canada, to amend the Copyright Act and to amend certain Acts in consequence, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Reports of Committees

Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Orders No. 1 to 8 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Commons Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Poulin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-459, An Act to establish Holocaust Memorial Day.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Roche, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Reports of Committees

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe, for the adoption of the Fourth Report (Interim) of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages entitled: Official Languages: 2002-2003 Perspective, tabled in the Senate on October 1, 2003.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 3 to 8 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the consideration of the Seventh Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology (document entitled: Santé en français — Pour un meilleur accès à des services de santé en français (French-Language Healthcare — Improving Access to French-Language Health Services)) tabled in the Senate on December 12, 2002.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that further debate on the consideration of the Report be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 10 and 11 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the consideration of the Sixth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce entitled: Competition in the Public Interest: Large Bank Mergers in Canada, tabled in the Senate on December 12, 2002.

After debate,

Further debate on the consideration of the Report was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton.

Order No. 13 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Consideration of the Sixteenth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence (budget—Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs—study on veterans benefits) presented in the Senate on October 23, 2003.

The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Other

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Moore calling the attention of the Senate to the matter of research funding in Canadian universities from federal sources.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Moore for the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Order No. 6 (inquiry) was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Gauthier calling the attention of the Senate to the important role of culture in Canada and the image that we project abroad.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator LaPierre moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 25, 15 (inquiries), 147, 92 (motions) and 23 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Roche, seconded by the Honourable Senator Plamondon:

That the Senate of Canada recommend that the Government of Canada refuse to participate in the U.S.-sponsored Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system, because:

1. It will undermine Canada's longstanding policy on the non-weaponization of space by giving implicit, if not explicit, support to U.S. policies to develop and deploy weapons in space;

2. It will further integrate Canadian and American military forces and policy without meaningful Canadian input into the substance of those policies;

3. It will make the world, including Canada, not more secure but less secure.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 22 (inquiry), 66, 86 (motions), 9 (inquiry) and 130 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Nolin calling the attention of the Senate to the findings contained in the Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Illegal Drugs entitled Cannabis: Our Position for a Canadian Public Policy, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate in the First Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament, on September 3, 2002.

Debate.

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Ordered, That all Senate Committees scheduled to sit today have power to sit while the Senate is sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

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The Senate resumed debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Nolin calling the attention of the Senate to the findings contained in the Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Illegal Drugs entitled Cannabis: Our Position for a Canadian Public Policy, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate in the First Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament, on September 3, 2002.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator LaPierre moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-55, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2004, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons with Bill C-13, An Act respecting assisted human reproduction and related research, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Morin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Other

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Gill calling the attention of the Senate to the issues of the common approach (negotiations) with the Innu (Montagnais) of Quebec, Quebec and Canada with respect to the current discussions.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., for the Honourable Senator Watt moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:

That the Senate resolve itself into Committee of the Whole in order to receive Jane Billings, from the Department of Public Works and Government Services, and Alan Williams, from the Department of National Defence, for a briefing on the procurement process for the Maritime Helicopter Project in light of developments since their appearance before Committee of the Whole on October 30, 2001.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Corbin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs undertake the examination of Canada's policy regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and report no later than April 30th, 2004.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Stollery moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Furey moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs be authorized to examine and report on regulations made pursuant to An Act respecting firearms and other weapons, Statutes of Canada, 1995, Chapter 39, as contemplated by section 118(3) of that Act; and

That the Committee submit its final report no later than December 31, 2003.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks:

That the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence have power to sit at any time on Monday next, November 3, 2003, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Report on the receipts and disbursements of the Office of the Auditor General and the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Auditor General Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-17, sbs. 21(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-761.

Actuarial Report (including Certification of Assets) on the Public Service Death Benefit Account as at March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Public Service Superannuation Act, S.C. 1992, c. 46, s. 28.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-762.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 7:41 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament

The name of the Honourable Senator Downe substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Fraser (October 27).

The names of the Honourable Senators Beaudoin and Oliver substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Di Nino and Murray (October 28).

Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications

The name of the Honourable Senator Tkachuk substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Gustafson (October 27).


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