Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 41st Parliament
Issue 165
Thursday, May 23, 2013
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tardif, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Watt, White
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
*Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tardif, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Watt, White
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Tabling of Documents
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable the Speaker tabled the following:
Letter from Supt. Biage Carrese, of the RCMP (Sensitive and International Investigations, National Division), to the Clerk of the Senate, dated May 16, 2013, regarding a request for Senate Policy, along with a copy of the letter in response sent by the Speaker of the Senate, dated May 22, 2013.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1625S.
Presenting or Tabling Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Runciman, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, presented its twenty-seventh report (Bill C-299, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (kidnapping of young person), without amendment).
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Eaton, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
SPEAKER'S RULING
On May 21, the Honourable Senator Harb raised a question of privilege concerning the twenty-fourth report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, presented on May 9. Senator Harb argued that the content of the committee report harmed his reputation and undermined his ability to fulfil his duties, and damaged the Senate itself. He took issue with the process followed in the review of living allowances, arguing that it amounted to a violation of basic principles of natural justice. He also challenged the conclusions reached by the committee. In presenting his position, Senator Harb outlined how, in his view, the question of privilege fulfilled the four criteria of rule 13-3(1).
A number of honourable senators made interventions on the question of privilege. Senator Carignan noted that Senator Harb himself recognized that he had been able to participate throughout the process that led to the twenty- fourth report. He emphasized that the report's recommendations would only take effect if adopted by the Senate, so the Senate itself would make the final decision. Senator Harb himself could take part in the debate. This being the case, Senator Carignan argued there was no prima facie question of privilege.
Senator Furey then posed questions to Senator Harb about the pattern of travel reviewed in the report. Afterward, Senator Nolin cited the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice and Erskine May in arguing that Senator Harb had not raised a proper question of privilege. Senator Fraser generally endorsed Senator Nolin's comments, identifying the complaint as one involving a reassessment of living expenses, which falls within the mandate of the Internal Economy Committee and the authority of the Senate. She noted "nowhere does it cast aspersions on Senator Harb's character or anything else. It does not say that he made the claims in bad faith ... It simply says that the claims should not have been made.''
As honourable senators know, a question of privilege is "An allegation that the privileges of the Senate or its members have been infringed.'' Privilege is made up of "The rights, powers and immunities enjoyed by each house collectively, and by members of each house individually, without which they could not discharge their functions, and which exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals.'' These definitions are from Appendix I of our Rules.
There are a range of privileges and rights enjoyed by this house and by its members. One of these rights is to regulate internal affairs. In exercising this right, the Senate can implement measures intended to safeguard its public reputation, even if it appears to be detrimental to the interest of individual members. This is confirmed at page 88 of the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, where it is stated that "...individual Member's rights are subordinate to those of the House as a whole in order to protect the collectivity against any abuses by individual Members.'' That is to say that the privileges and rights exercised by the Senate itself take precedence over those of individual senators.
The report by the Internal Economy Committee involves a proposal to the Senate on the use of Senate resources and the application of Senate policies with respect to these resources. The committee has a clear mandate to do this. Rule 12-7(1)(a) allows it "to consider, on its own initiative, all financial and administrative matters concerning the Senate's internal administration.'' The report is an exercise of this mandate. Of course, the report will only take effect if it is adopted by the Senate.
Senator Harb raised his question of privilege at the earliest opportunity. However, it does not meet the three other criteria of rule 13-3(1). The complaint raised by Senator Harb does not directly concern the privileges of the Senate, a committee or a senator. No grave or serious breach has been identified. There is nothing prima facie to substantiate a claim that Senator Harb's ability to function as a parliamentarian has been damaged.
The report falls within the Senate's legitimate control over its internal administration. The question of privilege does not meet the second and third criteria. Concerns about the fairness of the process for developing the report and its conclusions can be explored during debate, and any senator can propose that the report be referred back to the committee for further study. Indeed, this is what has happened with respect to the twenty-second report. The report could also be amended or rejected. There are a range of reasonable parliamentary processes available to address the issues raised by Senator Harb. Consequently, the condition of the fourth criteria has not been met.
The ruling is that a prima facie case of privilege has not been established.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills — Third Reading
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lang, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin, for the third reading of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carignan, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Reports of Committees — Other
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poirier:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to examine and report upon the expenditures set out in the Supplementary Estimates (A) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2014.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Inquiries
Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills — Third Reading
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills — Third Reading
Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Senate Public Bills — Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Senate Public Bills — Second Reading
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills — Second Reading
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Dyck, for the second reading of Bill C-279, An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code (gender identity).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Segal, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 2 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees — Other
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Carignan, for the adoption of the twenty-fifth report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (Policies and guidelines relating to Senators' travel), presented in the Senate on May 9, 2013.
After debate,
Further debate on the motion was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Cools.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Stewart Olsen, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ogilvie, for the adoption of the twenty-fourth report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (Examination of Senator Harb's Primary and Secondary Residence Status), presented in the Senate on May 9, 2013.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator McCoy moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cools, that the report be not now adopted, but that it be referred back to the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration for further consideration and report.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That Order No. 1 under Commons Public Bills — Third Reading, be again called.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Plett, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tannas, for the third reading of Bill C-309, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (concealment of identity).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.
The bill was then read the third time and passed, on division.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, without amendment.
Reports of Committees — Other
Orders No. 3 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Smith, P.C. (Cobourg), seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, for the adoption of the fourth report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament (Amendments to the Rules of the Senate), presented in the Senate on December 12, 2012.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan, for the Honourable Senator Cools, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Consideration of the twentieth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, entitled: Statutory Review on the Provisions and Operation of the Act to amend the Criminal Code (production of records in sexual offence proceedings), tabled in the Senate on December 13, 2012.
After debate,
Further debate on the consideration of the report was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Fraser.
Motions
Orders No. 75, 162, 144, 161, 158 and 128 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Orders No. 68, 62, 70, 57, 19, 64, 65, 22, 67, 59, 35, 45 and 40 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Mercer, calling the attention of the Senate to Canada's current level of volunteerism, the impact it has on society, and the future of volunteerism in Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 18 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Oliver, calling the attention of the Senate to the state of diversity in the Senate of Canada and its administration and, in particular, to how we can address the barriers facing the advancement of visible minorities in the Senate workforce and increase their representation by focusing on hiring, retention and promotion.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan, for the Honourable Senator Meredith, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 50 was called and, pursuant to rule 4-15(2), dropped from the Order Paper.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin:
That, for the purposes of its consideration of Bill C-15, An Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs be authorized to meet from 3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 and from 3:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 29, 2013, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that rule 12-18(1) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Jaffer moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley:
That, notwithstanding the Order of the Senate adopted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011, the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights retain all powers necessary until March 31, 2014 to publicize its findings in its report entitled: Cyberbullying Hurts: Respect for Rights in the Digital Age tabled in the Senate on December 12, 2012.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, May 28, 2013, at 2 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 5:01 p.m. the Senate was continued until Tuesday, May 28, 2013, at 2 p.m.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 12-5
Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples
The Honourable Senator Beyak replaced the Honourable Senator Wells (May 23, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Patterson replaced the Honourable Senator Eaton (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The Honourable Senator Plett replaced the Honourable Senator Black (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The Honourable Senator Bellemare replaced the Honourable Senator McInnis (May 22, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Campbell replaced the Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C. (May 22, 2013).
The Honourable Senator McInnis replaced the Honourable Senator Bellemare (May 22, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The Honourable Senator Lang replaced the Honourable Senator Raine (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The Honourable Senator Beyak replaced the Honourable Senator Nolin (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The Honourable Senator Plett replaced the Honourable Senator Lang (May 23, 2013).
The Honourable Senator White replaced the Honourable Senator Plett (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The Honourable Senator Black replaced the Honourable Senator Eaton (May 23, 2013).