Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 41st Parliament
Issue 166
Tuesday, May 28, 2013
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Wells, White
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, *MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, *Massicotte, *McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, *Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, *Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, *Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, *Sibbeston, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, *Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Wells, White
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Pursuant to rule 13-4(4), the Honourable Senator Harb gave notice that he would raise a question of privilege regarding outside interference in the Senate's internal affairs, and the resulting damage to the reputation and integrity of the Senate.
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Presenting or Tabling Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Manning, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, tabled its tenth report entitled: The Lobster Fishery: Staying on Course. —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1636S.
The Honourable Senator Manning moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Meredith, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
SPEAKER'S RULING
On May 21, the Honourable Senator Cowan, the Leader of the Opposition, raised a question of privilege. His allegation was that privilege had been violated by the events leading to the presentation of the twenty-second report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration on May 9. Based on subsequent information from the media and other sources, Senator Cowan argued that the report was incomplete and biased. The effect, he argued, was to undermine the credibility of the Senate and public confidence in the institution. Senator Cowan argued that it was essential that action be taken to deal with this situation by thoroughly investigating all aspects of the allegations.
Senator Carignan, the Deputy Leader of the Government, responded by urging senators to focus on established facts, not allegations. He noted that other processes are available to deal with the concerns that are circulating. This includes recourse to the Conflict of Interest Code for Senators. Later Senator Nolin took up this idea by noting that another alternative was to refer the report back to the Internal Economy Committee. Senator Andreychuk drew our attention to the parliamentary authorities, which note that a disagreement as to fact does not constitute a question of privilege.
Senator Fraser, however, shared the concerns of the Opposition Leader. She underscored the importance of parliamentary bodies remaining free from obstruction, interference and intimidation. She argued that the allegations raise serious concern about inappropriate interference with a committee that plays a central role in the operation of the Senate.
Let me begin by making reference to a statement made more than thirty years ago, by the then-Speaker of the House of Commons, the Right Honourable Jeanne Sauvé. On March 18, 1982, after a serious breakdown in the business of the other place, she stated:
What ensued from our failure to bring our rules up to date earned us shrugs and even sneers from our fellow citizens. We may even have strengthened an unfortunately widespread tendency to be sceptical of the actions of Parliament ...
She went on to state that "The authority of the Chair is no greater than the House wants it to be.'' The Speaker is the servant of the house, assisting it in conducting its business in an orderly manner that balances, as far as possible, many divergent interests.
In the Senate, given the limited authority of the chair, this is even more evident. Honourable senators are themselves responsible for how business is conducted, and retain final control of proceedings through the right to appeal decisions of the Speaker.
I raise this situation from many years ago because of the current circumstances, characterized by many as a crisis, in which the Senate now finds itself. There has been a swirl of accusations, many of them disturbing, and this has affected how the public perceives this body. The Senate is an important part of our parliamentary system, which has served our country well for more than 145 years. Honourable senators work for the public good in positions of trust, and must act responsibly. It is for honourable senators to take control of the situation and restore trust that may have been damaged.
When the Auditor General of Canada first identified concerns about inadequate documentation for some reimbursable claims, the Senate took this seriously. Through the Internal Economy Committee we worked to review travel expenses. This eventually led to the audit of certain senators' expenses. To date the Senate has received three reports on specific cases. Other proposals to enhance expenditure controls have been made.
Senator Cowan has outlined his understanding of how events relating to the twenty-second report unfolded. Because of these concerns, the Senate decided to refer the report back to the Internal Economy Committee for further consideration on the same day the question of privilege was raised.
I do not underestimate the serious challenge of this situation for the Senate. For the good of the institution, and for the good of Parliament, the Internal Economy Committee needs to consider carefully how it will undertake a thorough and careful review of all aspects of the situation. The Rules of the Senate and parliamentary practice afford this committee the authority it needs to hear witnesses and to send for papers. The committee knows that honourable senators, and Canadians, will watch its work with great attention.
It is in this context that we must consider the question of privilege raised by the Leader of the Opposition. At this preliminary stage, the Speaker provides the Senate with an analysis of whether a prima facie case of privilege has been established. The four criteria of rule 13-3(1), all of which must be met, guide this analysis.
Given the arguments during consideration of the question of privilege and subsequent events, it is most helpful to start with the fourth criterion — that no alternate parliamentary process is reasonably available to deal with the matter. Senator Carignan noted that some aspects of the situation can be dealt with under the Conflict of Interest Code for Senators. Of immediate relevance, the very fact that the report in question was sent back to the committee shows that an alternate process was available. The Senate has implemented it, thereby pre-empting to some degree this decision, as is its undoubted right.
The committee is now responsible for reviewing the expenses and a range of related issues. It would be best to wait for the results of that work to see if clarity can be brought to this grave situation, rather than starting a second, parallel process. That would risk further confusion.
The Speaker must be satisfied that all four criteria are met in order to find that a prima facie case of privilege exists. The fact that this question of privilege does not meet one criterion means that, under the Rules, it cannot succeed. Given this, there is no need to directly address the other criteria. Debate in the Senate and other actions point to the seriousness of the events. After the Internal Economy Committee presents an updated report, senators will be able to assess it, to see if the concerns have been addressed properly and effectively.
The ruling is that there is no prima facie case of privilege. The Senate already is taking action on the concerns that gave rise to Senator Cowan's question of privilege. Senators must now have the chance to work to resolve this problem.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills — Third Reading
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lang, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin, for the third reading of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that Bill C-42 be not now read a third time but that it be amended
(a) in clause 12, on page 9, by replacing line 28 with the following:
"7(1)(e) of that Act, but the categories determined shall include categories of members who perform duties and functions that are substantially the same as the duties and functions performed by officers and by members other than officers on the coming into force of this section.'';
(b) in clause 13, on page 9, by replacing line 36 with the following:
"(a) determine categories of members, which shall include categories of members who perform duties and functions that are substantially the same as the duties and functions performed by officers and by members other than officers on the coming into force of this section; and''; and
(c) in clause 86, on page 118,
(i) by replacing line 25 with the following:
"definition reads on that date, other than a member who is a member on the day this Act is assented to, who does not'', and
(ii) by replacing line 32 with the following:
"Canadian Mounted Police Act, other than a member who is a member on the day this Act is assented to, who does not''.
The Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
With leave,
The Senate reverted to Presenting or Tabling Reports from Standing or Special Committees.
The Honourable Senator Marshall presented the following:
Tuesday, May 28, 2013
The Committee of Selection has the honour to present its
FOURTH REPORT
Your committee recommends a change of membership to the following committees:
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The Honourable Senator Campbell replaces the Honourable Senator Harb as a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.
Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., replaces the Honourable Senator Harb as a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.
Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights
The Honourable Senator Munson replaces the Honourable Senator Harb as a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights.
Standing Joint Committee on Scrutiny of Regulations
The Honourable Senator Fraser replaces the Honourable Senator Harb as a member of the Standing Joint Committee on Scrutiny of Regulations.
Respectfully submitted,
ELIZABETH MARSHALL
Chair
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Marshall moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carignan, that the report be adopted now.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Reports of Committees — Other
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Order No. 67 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills — Third Reading
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills — Third Reading
Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Senate Public Bills — Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Senate Public Bills — Second Reading
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills — Second Reading
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Dyck, for the second reading of Bill C-279, An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code (gender identity).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan, for the Honourable Senator Nancy Ruth, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 2 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees — Other
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Carignan, for the adoption of the twenty-fifth report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (Policies and guidelines relating to Senators' travel), presented in the Senate on May 9, 2013.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS—POUR
The Honourable Senators—Les honorables sénateurs
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Lang, LeBreton, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Meredith, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Saurel), Smith (Cobourg), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Verner, Wallace, Watt, Wells, White—80
NAYS—CONTRE
The Honourable Senators—Les honorables sénateurs
Nil/Aucun
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators—Les honorables sénateurs, Cools, Harb—2
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Stewart Olsen, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ogilvie, for the adoption of the twenty-fourth report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (Examination of Senator Harb's Primary and Secondary Residence Status), presented in the Senate on May 9, 2013;
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator McCoy, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cools, that the report be not now adopted, but that it be referred back to the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration for further consideration and report.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivest, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 3 to 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Orders No. 75, 162, 144, 161, 158 and 128 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Orders No. 9, 60, 68 and 62 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Oliver, calling the attention of the Senate to the need to engage in a national conversation to call for the elimination of violence against women, of all ages, in all its forms including physical, sexual, or psychological abuse, and, in particular, on how we, as a national legislative body, can take the lead in educating, preventing, increasing national and global awareness on gender equality and reaffirming that violence against women constitutes a violation of the rights and fundamental freedoms of each individual.
After debate,
Further debate on the inquiry was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Jaffer.
Orders No. 57, 19, 64, 65, 22, 67, 59 and 35 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Tardif, calling the attention of the Senate to access to Justice in French in Francophone Minority Communities.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Jaffer moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ringuette, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Cowan, calling the attention of the Senate to the 30th Anniversary of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which has done so much to build pride in our country and our national identity.
After debate,
Further debate on the inquiry was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk.
Order No. 18 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE
Pursuant to rule 13-6(1), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the question of privilege of the Honourable Senator Harb regarding outside interference in the Senate's internal affairs, and the resulting damage to the reputation and integrity of the Senate.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Dallaire moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore:
That, notwithstanding the orders of the Senate adopted on Wednesday, June 22, 2011, and on Thursday, June 14, 2012, the date for the final report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence in relation to its study on the services and benefits provided to members of the Canadian Forces, to veterans, and to members and former members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and their families, be extended from June 28, 2013, to June 27, 2014.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley:
That, for the purpose of its study of the subject-matter of Bill C-60, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 21, 2013 and other measures, the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance have the power to sit even though the Senate may then be sitting, and the application of rule 12-18(1) being suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk:
That the Rules of the Senate be amended by:
(1) replacing rule 4-5(b) with the following:
"Presenting or Tabling Reports from Committees'';
(2) replacing rule 5-5(f) with the following:
"to adopt a report of a standing committee or the Committee of Selection'';
(3) amending rule 12-2 by adding of the following subsections (4), (5) and (6):
"Powers of the Committee of Selection
12-2. (4) The Committee of Selection is empowered to inquire into and report on any other matter referred to it by the Senate, and also has the power:
(a) to publish from day to day such papers and evidence as may be ordered by it; and
(b) to propose to the Senate from time to time changes in the membership of a committee.
Committee of Selection is neither a standing nor special committee
12-2. (5) For greater certainty, the Committee of Selection is neither a standing nor a special committee.
Quorum of Committee of Selection
12-2. (6) The quorum of the Committee of Selection shall be six of its members.'';
(4) replacing rule 12-6 with the following:
"Quorum of standing committees
12-6. Except as otherwise provided, the quorum of a standing committee shall be four of its members.
EXCEPTION
Rule 12-27(2): Quorum of Conflict of Interest Committee''; and
(5) amending the definition of "Committee'' in Appendix I by:
(a) adding the following definition:
"(a) Committee of Selection: A Senate committee appointed at the beginning of each session to nominate a Senator to serve as Speaker pro tempore and to nominate Senators to serve on the standing committees and the standing joint committees.''; and
(b) changing the alphabetical designation of current points (a) to (e) as points (b) to (f), and changing all cross references in the Rules accordingly.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Callbeck called the attention of the Senate to the need for improved mental health care treatment for inmates in federal correctional institutions, and the benefits of providing such treatment through alternative service delivery options.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cordy moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 14-1(7):
Report of the Chicken Farmers of Canada, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2012, pursuant to the Farm Products Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1626.
Report of the Canadian Egg Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2012, pursuant to the Farm Products Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1627.
Report of the Canadian Turkey Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2012, pursuant to the Farm Products Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41- 1628.
Report of the Canadian Hatching Egg Producers, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2012, pursuant to the Farm Products Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1629.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 2013-2014 to 2017-2018 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets and Borrowing Plan for 2013-2014 of Farm Credit Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1630.
Report on the administration of the Atlantic Fisheries Restructuring Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-14, sbs. 8(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1631.
Reports of the Department of Finance for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1632.
Report on the administration of the Canada Petroleum Resources Act for the year 2012, pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 36 (2nd Supp.), s. 109.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1633.
Reports of the Canadian Polar Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1634.
Reports of the Sahtu Land Use Planning Board for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1635.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poirier:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 6:15 p.m. the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 12-5
Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples
The Honourable Senator Tannas replaced the Honourable Senator Enverga (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk replaced the Honourable Senator Smith (Saurel) (May 23, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Black replaced the Honourable Senator Bellemare (May 23, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., replaced the Honourable Senator Campbell (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The Honourable Senator McCoy replaced the Honourable Senator Baker, P.C. (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans
The Honourable Senator Maltais replaced the Honourable Senator Stewart Olsen. (May 28, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The Honourable Senator Nolin replaced the Honourable Senator Beyak (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights
The Honourable Senator Ataullahjan replaced the Honourable Senator Greene (May 28, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Zimmer replaced the Honourable Senator Munson (May 27, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Greene replaced the Honourable Senator Ataullahjan (May 27, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Munson replaced the Honourable Senator Zimmer (May 27, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The Honourable Senator Frum replaced the Honourable Senator Plett (May 23, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The Honourable Senator Smith (Saurel) replaced the Honourable Senator Lang (May 28, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Lang replaced the Honourable Senator Smith (Saurel) (May 28, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence
The Honourable Senator Mitchell replaced the Honourable Senator Moore (May 27, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Moore replaced the Honourable Senator Mitchell (May 27, 2013).
Committee of Selection
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., replaced the Honourable Senator Mercer (May 23, 2013).