Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Privileges, Standing
Rules and Orders
Issue 1 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 18, 1996
The Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders met this day at 4:00 p.m. to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Mr. Gary O'Brien, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, I see a quorum.
Our first item of business is to elect a chairman. Are there any nominations?
Senator Lewis: I nominate Senator Gauthier.
Mr. O'Brien: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Lewis that the Honourable Senator Gauthier do take the chair of this committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. O'Brien: Carried.
I invite the Honourable Senator Gauthier to take the chair.
The Honourable Jean-Robert Gauthier (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, thank you for your confidence. I hope to be able to work with all of you in a constructive manner. This committee has many responsibilities. I know that Senator Kenny wishes to proceed with a reorganization of the committee system. He feels that this should be the work of this committee but, since the implementation of this new organization costs money, he wants to work with us on the possibility of reorganizing our committees.
Honourable senators, the next item of business on the agenda is the election of a deputy chairman. Do we have a motion?
Senator Bosa: Is it not tradition to have a deputy chairman from the other party or from the opposition?
Senator Rompkey: I move that Senator Robertson be the Deputy Chair of this committee.
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Rompkey that the Honourable Senator Robertson be the Deputy Chairman of the committee.
Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The next item of business is that we appoint a Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure or what is normally called the steering committee. I need someone to move:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the Chairman, the Deputy Chairman, and one other member of the Committee to be designated by the Chairman after the usual consultations and that the quorum be two members; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to meet in camera.
Senator Bosa: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Bosa that the motion, as read, be adopted.
Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
[Translation]
With regards to the printing of the committee's proceedings, it is suggested to print 375 copies to be distributed to senators, members of the House of Commons, senior officers and support staff.
It is moved by Senator Lewis:
That the Committee print 375 copies of its Proceedings.
[English]
Senator Bosa: That number, 375, seems to be rather large.
Mr. O'Brien: That number is based on usage in the last session. This is a minimum amount, given the circulation to senators, members of the House of Commons and staff. We have a new printing procedure where issues are printed in-house. If we wish to print more, we do not need special authorization. We can make photocopies.
Senator Bosa: Is this the minimum number of copies?
Mr. O'Brien: It is a minimum number, yes.
The Chairman: Do we distribute the proceedings of the committee to all members of Parliament? If we do, we will not have enough copies because there are 295 members.
Mr. O'Brien: We do not do so automatically. They can take whatever quantity they want.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
[Translation]
It is moved by the Honorable Senator Rompkey:
That the Committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign Research Officers to the Committee; and
That the Chairman, on behalf of the Committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses and summaries.
Are there any comments?
[English]
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The next item of business on the agenda reads as follows:
That the Chairman be authorized to present a budget of $3,000 to the Internal Economy Committee for the expenses of meals, working lunches, et cetera.
Senator Robertson: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The next item of business on the agenda reads as follows:
That, pursuant to paragraph 3:05 of Appendix III of the Rules of the Senate, the signing authority for certifying the accounts payable to the Committee be delegated to the Chairman or the Deputy Chairman.
Senator Bosa: It should read chairperson.
Senator Robertson: That wording does not bother me, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: We will leave the motion as it is written for now, but we will ask our drafters about that wording.
Senator Milne: I move the motion, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Lewis: Honourable senators, there are two issues that I think we should consider.
First, our rules seem to be predicated on the assumption -- and, of course, it is a fact -- that there are only two parties in the Senate. We should make a provision in the event that there are more parties in the Senate. It just so happens that the NDP have never accepted appointment. As well, at some stage a number of independent senators may wish to become a party. In the long term, we should think about adapting the rules.
Senator Robertson: We have had discussions on this issue ad nauseam. There was never any movement from either caucus on the role of independents on committees. It appears that only one independent senator is interested in working on a committee.
Senator Lewis: I was not thinking of the independents.
Senator Robertson: Were you thinking of a regular party?
Senator Lewis: Yes.
Senator Bosa: This is not a pressing issue.
Senator Lewis: One never knows; we should be prepared.
Senator Bosa: Independent senators do not appear to be united and speaking with one voice. They are in separate corners. However, nothing prevents them from attending our meetings.
The Chairman: Perhaps we could widen the definition of "party", as they do in the House of Commons, to fixed numbers at elections and fixed numbers in this house. We would have to consider the definition of "political party," and it may be prudent for us to do so now. Do we want to adopt the definition in the Canada Elections Act, or do we want to adopt the House of Commons definition?
Senator Bosa: Do you think we should make a provision right now?
Senator Milne: I move that we discuss this matter at the next meeting.
The Chairman: Perhaps we could have a paper prepared as to the definition of "party."
Senator Robertson: Yes. Perhaps our clerk could have someone prepare documentation.
Senator Bosa: As well, perhaps they could outline the pros and cons of the issue.
Senator Lewis: The other issue I want to mention is applicable today because the Senate is currently in the midst of a vote. The bells will ring for one hour. This is such a waste of time -- not the bell ringing, but the time we lose while waiting for a vote. Is there some way we could proceed with routine proceedings in the chamber while the bells ring?
Senator Bosa: Are you suggesting that we proceed with other business in the meantime?
Senator Lewis: Yes.
The Chairman: The House of Commons defers votes to 6 o'clock or until adjournment and they continue with Orders of the Day.
Senator Robertson: We have done that as well. We have moved on to another topic and then had a shorter bell.
The Chairman: We will consider that issue at a later time.
There are five items under the rubric of "Future Business" on the agenda.
Item No. 2 is "Senators' Attendance." Perhaps we could have a background paper on that matter.
Senator Bosa: And leave it for discussion.
The Chairman: Yes.
Item No. 3 is "Restructuring the Senate Committees." There is a move afoot to restructure Senate committees, and papers are circulating.
Senator Bosa: Is there an effort make them bigger or smaller?
The Chairman: That is the argument. We will see.
Item No. 4 is "Rules Revision." That is a standing order of this committee. There is an ongoing interest in the rules of revision.
Item No. 5 relates to an update to the Companion to the Rules.
Senator Milne: That is the white book, is it not?
Senator Robertson: The Companion to the Rules is the large white document that staff have prepared. It is encyclopedic in nature. It includes references to other sources of information.
The Chairman: As the clerk said, it is all outdated. Perhaps we should review it.
Mr. O'Brien: The numbers of the rules have all changed, and the book is more difficult to use now.
The Chairman: The next item is "Restructuring of Senate Committees (oral presentation)." We will dispense with that today, if you do not mind, because we have a vote in five minutes.
The next item relates to the proposed Senate rules for joint committees. A committee has been considering that issue for some time. I was a member of that committee with Mr. Peter Milliken and Senator Grimard. We have come up with suggestions. I should like the members of this committee to read the proposals and maybe discuss them here before we go back to the House of Commons with common rules for joint committees.
As it stands now, there are no rules. If whoever chairs the committee comes from the Senate, the rules are the Senate rules.
Senator Rompkey: He who has the gold makes the rules.
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Robertson: I suggest we circulate the positions the committee has developed before the next meeting so that we have an opportunity to study them.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Rompkey: Can we give some priority to restructuring Senate committees?
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Bosa: Mr. Chairman, do you propose to have regular weekly meetings or bi-weekly meetings?
The Chairman: I do not intend to have regular meetings for the summer.
Senator Bosa: No. I meant that we would have meetings when the Senate is sitting.
The Chairman: I want to get all these documents out to you early so that you can read them, and we will meet again in the fall to do some serious work on these items.
Senator Lewis: Mr. Chairman, I move that we adjourn.
The committee adjourned.