THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, March 21, 2024
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met with videoconference this day at 11:30 a.m. [ET] to study foreign relations and international trade generally.
Senator Peter M. Boehm (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, my name is Peter Boehm. I am a senator from Ontario and the chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
Before we begin, I wish to invite committee members participating in today’s meeting to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
[English]
Senator Greene: Stephen Greene, Nova Scotia.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Amina Gerba, from Quebec.
[English]
Senator MacDonald: Michael MacDonald, Nova Scotia.
Senator Ravalia: Mohamed-Iqbal Ravalia, Newfoundland and Labrador.
Senator Coyle: Mary Coyle, Nova Scotia.
Senator Kutcher: Stan Kutcher, Nova Scotia.
Senator Harder: Peter Harder, Ontario.
Senator M. Deacon: Marty Deacon, Ontario.
Senator Woo: Yuen Pau Woo, British Columbia.
Senator Greenwood: Margo Greenwood, British Columbia.
The Chair: Welcome senators, and I wish to welcome all of those who may be watching, whether it is in Canada, Ukraine or other places, on SenVu today.
For our first panel and under our general order of reference, we are meeting to again discussion the situation in Ukraine. Our focus for this meeting is on the rebuilding and reconstruction of Ukraine. Before we hear from our witness today, I want to remind everyone to be mindful of not having your earpiece too close to the microphone and the sonic damage that could occur if you do that, particularly for our technical staff and our interpreters.
Today, we are honoured to welcome by videoconference Oleksandr Kubrakov, Deputy Prime Minister for Restoration of Ukraine. Deputy Prime Minister, thank you for joining us today, we know the hour is getting late in Ukraine. On a personal note, it was a pleasure to meet with you on the margins of the Munich Security Conference last month. I am delighted you could be with us today.
We’re ready to hear your remarks. As per usual, your remarks will be followed by questions from the senators and you will hopefully be obliged to answer them.
Oleksandr Kubrakov, Deputy Prime Minister for Restoration of Ukraine, as an individual: Honourable chair and senators, thank you for the opportunity to address you today.
Last month, we passed a grim milestone. We marked two full years since Russia had provoked a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and 10 years since Russia’s initial invasion and the illegal occupation of Crimea and Donbas. For over two years now, on a daily basis, attacks target us with Russian, North Korean and Iranian missiles and drones. Millions of innocent Ukrainians have been killed, maimed or displaced. Our bridges, roads and ports have faced devastation in the aggressor’s efforts to destroy our economy. Our essential civilian services and energy system have been targeted, damaged or destroyed. Recently, the International Criminal Court in The Hague issued arrest warrants on charges linked to these attacks on the civilian infrastructure in Ukraine.
The World Bank’s Rapid Damage and Needs Assessment reports summarize the devastation to date, stating that the total reconstruction and recovery needs are $658 billion Canadian. For the rest of my remarks, I will quote all amounts in Canadian dollars. In 2024 alone, reconstruction and recovery priorities total $21 billion.
Yet even in the face of such relentless adversity, Ukraine’s resolve remains firm. We are resilient. Despite the damage that Russia inflicts on our country and on our infrastructure, despite the damage that Russia inflicts on our people, we continue to fight. We will not and cannot rest until this senseless war ends, we emerge the victors and justice is achieved. In this, we begin the process of recovery now. First, because we know we will win; and second, because our people cannot wait.
Much like our brave and heroic troops fighting on the front lines, the Ukrainian people are different. Last week, Russia launched a cowardly drone strike in Odesa, which killed 20 people and injured 73 more. Despite this constant threat of Russian terrorism, the Ukrainian people continue to make progress each day in restoring their homeland.
In housing, we restored over 3,900 multi-family apartment buildings and nearly 20,000 single-family homes. We provided funding through our digital government tool, Diia, with a program named eRecovery to more than 43,000 Ukrainians to repair damaged homes and to more than 4,000 Ukrainians to replace their destroyed homes.
Notwithstanding the aggressor’s constant efforts to destroy our export potential, we have practically driven the Russian fleet from the Black Sea, allowing us to restart exports. Through the Ukrainian corridor, we have exported more than 30 million tonnes. The reopening of the Odesa ports allow us to export agricultural products again. We have begun to work intensely on the Danube ports to enable further access to market for our goods. We have worked with our western border partners to open additional border crossing checkpoints. We are maximizing Ukraine’s export potential, and it is increasing our economic sustainability.
Here, I want to emphasize my thanks to you, the people of Canada, on behalf of the Ukrainian people. We have a unique bond with Canada. Your country was the first to recognize Ukraine’s independence in 1991, and your support has gone far beyond words, only strengthening in the face of Russian aggression. Canada has committed over $9.6 billion in total aid to Ukraine since the full-scale invasion, of which the sum of $2.4 billion was military aid. Just this week, Canada, in conjunction with a Czech-led initiative to procure more ammunition rounds for Ukraine, donated $40 million in large calibre ammunition and $7.5 million in night vision equipment.
This year, Canada supplied Ukraine with 200 armoured vehicles. It has also provided Ukraine with a critically needed air defence system to protect Ukrainian skies from Russian missiles. This is crucial in protecting our brave soldiers on the front lines and our citizens at home.
But Canada’s support does not end with military aid. Canadian financial assistance for Ukraine’s recovery totals $4.9 billion. I want to extend my thanks to the Canadian government for their ratification of an updated Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. This will strengthen both of our countries’ economies and our ties both during and long after the war. Canada also supports the “Grain from Ukraine” initiative to strengthen Ukraine’s ability to ensure global food security and much more.
Finally, Canada, through the SURGe project, supports building our communities’ capacity to lead the recovery so that our people will not just survive this war, but thrive.
We also welcome Canadian businesses to actively take part in Ukraine’s recovery. We are grateful for Canada’s facilitation of private sector investments in Ukraine’s restoration through war risk insurance from Export Development Canada and financial instruments from FinDev Canada.
Your ongoing partnership and support are vital to the safety of our people and to the economic recovery of Ukraine. Our accomplishments would not have been possible without the assistance of Canada and our international partners.
In 2023 alone, we allocated over $9.5 billion toward crucial recovery efforts. Roughly 60% of this was contributed by partners and the remaining 40% from our own state budget. This was mostly possibly because of Ukraine’s successful confiscation and liquidation of Russian assets in Ukraine.
Ukraine’s economic sustainability is fundamental to the safety and protection of our people. First, we are prioritizing the construction of housing to aid 3.5 million internally displaced Ukrainians and to enable 6.5 million people forced to flee Ukraine to return home. Second, the enhancements of our export capabilities — as I described — in the Black Sea. Third, the reconstruction and fortification of critical infrastructure.
To achieve these goals and ensure our victory, not only is our partnership with Canada and other partners critically important, but also we must gain access to over $400 billion in Russian sovereign and oligarchs’ assets. This is crucial to our success. I am deeply grateful to Canada for your efforts in adopting the laws that authorize the seizure of assets and redirection of Russian funds toward Ukraine’s recovery.
I encourage you to support Bill S-278 to amend the Special Economic Measures Act and reach a decision at the G7 level on the confiscation of Russia’s sovereign assets. I urge the Canadian government to confiscate $35 million of sanctioned oligarch Roman Abramovich’s Granite Capital Holdings and the Russian aircraft of Volga-Dnepr Airlines. Russia has inflicted widespread damage on our country. We must hold them accountable. I am confident that we can achieve justice if we are united and determined.
In closing, I leave you with a challenge: This war is not over. Our work together is not over. This is a war on the values and freedom that together we hold dear.
Though Ukrainians are on the front line, this is a war on all of us, and until we are victorious, we cannot rest. Together, we must do everything we can. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Deputy Prime Minister.
Senator Harder: Good afternoon, Deputy Prime Minister. I would like to follow up a bit on some of your latter comments with respect to the work that you have under way to work with like-minded parties on seizing Russian assets. From what I have been reading in the Financial Times, it looks there has been good progress in Europe. Could you give us an update as to how you would use that funding to accelerate the recovery? Related to that, in terms of instruments to accelerate recovery, we have participated — as you know — in a number of Ukrainian recovery conferences. Do you find those useful, and, if so, what are the plans for further gatherings of like-minded parties?
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you for the question. The main target is to start restoration projects during the war because, again, we are confident that we will win. We need to maintain our economy. We need to start restoration as soon as possible.
I think a significant part of Russian assets would be used for restoration projects in Ukraine, and I think this is fair. I am sure that all those damages for losses shouldn’t be paid by your taxpayers.
Regarding conferences, I think from year to year, they are becoming much more practical. We are discussing not only principles; we are discussing and approving concrete projects and announcing real programs. For example, all those programs that were announced or presented during the London conference are being implemented or are ongoing projects right now. We are working together with the German side in order to make the next conference in Berlin even more practical. Thank you.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you, and again from all of us, thank you for being with us today. It’s so greatly appreciated.
I am looking first at the health aspects of this war. It is clear that part of the Russian strategy is to cripple centres of Ukrainian health care and support. By the end of 2022, there were at least 707 documented assaults on health care infrastructure that occurred, including damages to over 218 hospitals and clinics and 181 assaults on other health facilities. Added to this is the burden of millions of internally displaced Ukrainians.
I am hoping you can give us a status report or update on your health care system and if you have any suggestions on how Canada could help in this specific regard.
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much for your question. You are absolutely right. Hundreds and thousands of health care facilities on the occupied territories or on territories that are controlled by Ukraine are damaged by Russian missiles. That is a challenge for the government.
What we are trying to do on the de-occupied territories, which were occupied in 2022 and 2023, is trying to provide at least basic health care services in those territories. We are focusing on having at least one health care centre in each community, in small communities. We were able to repair several hundreds of such health care centres and facilities on the de-occupied territories and in controlled territories, mostly with support.
Again, we use two sources. First of all, we used money from arrested Russian assets in Ukraine, it has been mostly Russian money. It is $450 million U.S. dollars that has been arrested in Ukraine. Second, we have several programs with Europe and multilateral development banks.
Regarding your question about how it could be supported, I will be honest that, for the most part, they are faced with the problem of liquidity, they need guarantees from our partnering countries in order to structure new programs with the Ukrainian government. If the Canadian government could help us to provide guarantees, for example, for one of these programs, it definitely would be helpful. Or direct support, for example, like some countries do on a bilateral level. For example, Denmark. They are repairing one of the main hospitals in Mykolayiv. They are implementing those projects directly. Any assistance or support would be helpful, thank you.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you, Deputy Prime Minister, for being with us today. Prior to your rebuilding efforts, Ukraine will need to de-mine large portions of your territory, including your agricultural land. Have you started to plan how you would undertake this mammoth task?
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much. We have not just started planning, we have just started de-mining of our agricultural territories. Again, it’s the de-occupied territories in 2022. It’s Kherson region, Chernihiv region, Sumy region and Kharkiv region. I would say that, again, this process is happening with support from all over the world, from different international institutions, from private initiatives and from different donors. We were able to de-mine a significant part of those territories. I would say that Chernihiv region, Kyiv region, the northern part of Sumy region, Kharkiv region and even Mykolayiv and Kherson regions, territories which were de‑occupied in 2022. Mostly they were demined in 2023.
I hope that in 2024 we will de-mine the rest of the agricultural territories, but the problem is the de-mining of the occupied cities and towns. That’s much more complicated. I know some communities, for example, in the Kharkiv region, which are still totally mined. We cannot start reconstruction of critical objects. We cannot start providing basic services or start repairing critical infrastructure.
Senator Ravalia: To shift gears a little, with the inherent risk of future Russian incursions, will defence strategy be a key component of your rebuilding efforts, particularly air protection?
Mr. Kubrakov: Definitely. Yes. Defence strategy is the key sector industry in our future and our plans. After this war, or even now, the role of the defence sector is growing and air defence is the number one question. Ukraine has a lot of territory. We understand that, right now, we are receiving air defence solutions from all over the world, from allies and countries. But in order to be sustainable, we need to work to develop solutions by ourselves or in cooperation with one of the largest world producers in Ukraine and produce it here. Because without this, we cannot protect our airspace and our territories.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you.
Senator Coyle: Thank you very much, Deputy Prime Minister, for your presence here today and for all of the work that you’re engaged in. I’m very sorry to hear the list of the devastation that you started your presentation with. Thank you for reminding us of that.
I am curious about the role of civil society in the restoration and reconstruction of your country. Could you speak to us about both the Ukrainian civil society engagement on restoration and reconstruction and also any international civil society partnerships that are key to the reconstruction of Ukraine?
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much. Civil society in Ukraine is very active and an important part of our society. From the very beginning, the core system solutions of our reconstruction processing ecosystem system, DREAM, which provides all access to international partners, to our civil society and to all bodies regarding the progress of reconstruction projects — all procurement, all construction work, all detailed information, sources of financing. From the very beginning, this project and this system was developed in cooperation with civil society, the whole coalition of Ukrainian civil society organizations, and it is international as well.
Transparency International and other anti-corruption organizations were actively participating in all restoration projects and programs in Ukraine — European anti-corruption projects, as well. We are probably the key partner for all anti‑corruption non-governmental organizations which are working in this field. In terms of restoration, they are involved in 80% of the programs. The key system is the Digital Restoration EcoSystem for Accountable Management, or DREAM, ecosystem. It is available in English. All anti-corruption institutions were involved from the very beginning in organizing.
Senator Coyle: For the restoration and reconstruction of Ukraine’s infrastructure, people and institutions, you’re going to need your people back. Many of your people are away, including here in Canada. Could you tell us what the strategy is or is going to be for encouraging Ukrainian talent to come back and be part of this important step in the reconstruction of your country?
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much for this question. Again, there are three key conditions. First of all, security, we cannot influence — air defence, we understand that everything will depend on the war. I wouldn’t spend a lot of time on these criteria.
However, jobs and housing, two issues which are really critical. For example, the southern part of Ukraine, when we opened our Ukrainian corridor in the Black Sea, all our ports and terminals are working right now at full capacity. We were able to bring back all of our people who left the country in 2022-23, who were outside of Ukraine. Right now, they already came back to Ukraine. They are working. They are receiving a quite normal salary, according to our current situation. But the cost of living for them, it’s much lower than in the new country. They came back.
Housing is critical. That’s why I spent in my speech a couple of minutes on housing. A lot of people, unfortunately, lost their housing. We have about 600,000 applications from families in our system whose apartment houses were damaged or totally destroyed.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Prime Minister, for being here today. It’s very much appreciated. We truly salute the resilience and determination of the Ukrainian government and people in the face of this ongoing war.
We understand the need to rebuild, because you spoke at length about housing needs — and my colleague spoke about the entire health care system.
My question has to do with the security you mentioned recently.
Given that the private sector also needs to be mobilized, do you think… I don’t think there’s an ideal time to rebuild, but what is the context and what conditions are in place to ensure the security of investors, investments and entrepreneurs who will be carrying out the reconstruction work, while the bombing continues?
[English]
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much for your question. First of all, again, I would like to thank the Canadian Parliament for ratifying the updated Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement as a mechanism to generate an increase in economic activity between our countries.
Second, recently, we launched a business advisory group. It already unites several hundred business representatives all over the world.
Third, I hope that all these mechanisms which were announced recently — I mean regarding risk insurance, they were started by the World Bank and other institutions, and fortunately we are already having first projects realized through such mechanisms during the war period of time. These mechanisms can help to protect foreign direct investments that will be realized in Ukraine.
First, again, mostly all new investment projects that were realized and implemented during the last two years, 90% were by businesses which were present in Ukraine before February 24. Because they are already here and they understand the situation, and it’s Ukrainian business and foreign business in many sectors, including Canadian business as well.
Again, I am asking not to wait until the end of the war to participate in such programs that I mentioned in my speech. From the Canadian government, I’m sure that Canadian business definitely should participate in the restoration of Ukraine. Thank you.
Senator Gerba: May I clarify because I wanted to know about the physical security of those entrepreneurs and investors?
The Chair: Deputy Prime Minister, would you have a quick comment on the physical security of the entrepreneurs?
Mr. Kubrakov: Physical security, there are some rules for all citizens in Ukraine and foreigners who are already in Ukraine. You have to abide — it’s the normal way. We get used to it for such situations. For example, we had attacks again on Kyiv last night, and there are some rules which should be considered and people have to stick to such security rules.
Second, even now, there are some countries which are reducing risks for their citizens, like the U.K., actually in western part of Ukraine, there are several regions which the U.K. identified as less risky than it was before. I think other countries will use this example and will do the same.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Senator MacDonald: Thank you for being here. I want to speak about the Multi-agency Donor Coordination Platform for Ukraine. You are one of the co-chairs. Obviously, it’s going to be playing an important role in restoring the country. The platform was set up in January 2023, it’s 14 months old now. How effective do you think it’s been to date and what changes do you think are necessary to make it more effective?
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much. I think the Multi‑agency Donor Coordination Platform became in the second half of last year much more efficient, we’ve discussed real and practical projects and programs. The good news is that at the end of the previous year, in 2023, Multi-agency Donor Coordination Platform was expanded with new members. More than ten countries joined with different statuses, but they became part of the Multi-agency Donor Coordination Platform and there are real commitments, actually, for restoration of Ukraine. Countries like Norway, I would say, had huge commitments. Also, some European countries joined the platform. But, again, depending on the volume of GDP of the countries depends on their possibility to support Ukraine. Still, the platform is growing with new members, with real commitments and with real projects.
Regarding what else we can do, we are discussing the platform, and it should be an active place not only from steering committee to steering committee, but between these — I hope the secretariat in Brussels will also start working it. I know, at the end of the previous year, some representatives of some countries were appointed and they hope that, during this year, the secretariat will also start being much more active on the platform, not only during steering committees. Thank you.
Senator MacDonald: In February, you mentioned there were new participants — Korea, Norway, Sweden and Netherlands — but there are other countries like Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland and Spain, they participated as observers, but they did not join. Do you expect them to join? Is there a reason why they would go as an observer and not join directly?
Mr. Kubrakov: There are some criteria about how they can join. I think it depends on those countries. At this stage, they decided to join as observers with their commitments of support for the restoration of Ukraine. I hope that in the next phrase they will join not as observers but as real participants of the platform.
Senator MacDonald: Thank you.
Senator Woo: Deputy Prime Minister, good afternoon. Can you tell us about your country’s plans for the next presidential election?
Mr. Kubrakov: Again, according to the constitution and according to all recent polls, we won’t have any possibility to have presidential elections during wartime.
Senator Woo: Can you elaborate a bit more on the difficulties of holding an election during a war, and what might be the conditions under which you would have an election?
Mr. Kubrakov: The main condition is when the war is finished. Only after that can we have elections.
Regarding difficulties, first of all, the safety of our people, especially in the regions that are close to the front line. A significant portion of our people are in the army right now, and to organize an election process for those participants and just to provide the possibility for our soldiers to participate in this process, especially closer to the front line, is a huge challenge. It’s a huge risk for those people.
Senator Woo: Thank you.
Senator Greenwood: Thank you, Deputy Prime Minister, for being here today, and thank you for all the work that you are doing.
I would like to ask you about the status of the Crimean Tatars. The Tatars are recognized as Indigenous people by Ukraine and have also been recognized as such in the constitution of Ukraine.
Since Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea, there have been serious reports of human abuses, including allegations of torture, arbitrary detentions and forced disappearances. Can you give us an update on the status of treatment of the Tatars and how that might influence or be included in your restoration plans?
Mr. Kubrakov: Yes. Thank you for your question. Last year, during the Crimea Platform, we presented the strategy for when Crimea will be de-occupied, what we will do and how we see development of the peninsula of Crimea. We have been working together with Crimean Tatars in their communities in Ukraine. There is a special envoy appointed by the president who is in charge and who is from the Crimean Tatar community in Ukraine. We are jointly working on this strategy. We have had discussions with Crimean Tatar business people who are present in Ukraine right now.
What you said regarding Tatars and what’s happening with these people in Crimea right now, again, I would like to that emphasize for Russians, nationality doesn’t matter. For them, these are not different people, and unfortunately, they are doing the same to all. There are thousands of examples. What’s happening is purely criminal.
Senator Kutcher: [Ukrainian spoken.]
There has been substantial destruction and damage to scientific infrastructure, including medical research capability. Reconstruction efforts have the opportunity to modernize Ukraine’s medical research capability and target specific areas for priority development.
I have two questions about that. Does Ukraine have a strategic plan for modernizing its medical sciences research infrastructure as it rebuilds in this area, including setting specific priorities for development? Second, have there been any discussions with Canada where we could be helpful in that? Specifically through the involvement of our National Research Council, our tri‑council granting agencies and our research-intensive universities, the U15?
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much for the question. At this stage, we are focusing on providing at least basic health care services to our citizens in the de-occupied territories or in regions which were attacked by Russian aggressions.
You are absolutely right. Again, we have a principle in Ukraine restorations, and it’s “build back better.” It is a principle for all sectors, including medical science and medical research institutes. Those in charge of the ministry of health care, I am sure, will be interested in cooperation with Canadian colleagues and modernization when planning the restoration of the sector.
Senator Kutcher: Thank you very much for that. Sadly and of necessity, there is a great need for improving bioengineering for prosthetic limbs. Canada has made some astonishing leaps forward in artificial intelligence-enabled smart bionic limbs. Although I know that German companies are the world leaders in producing these, there is some fantastic research happening in Canada in this area. I’m just wondering if there were any discussions back and forth with some of the work that’s happening now.
Mr. Kubrakov: I don’t know exactly. I know that there are some new clinics and new projects they are implementing in Kyiv and in other large cities, but I don’t know exactly what the basis of that is, what partnership is with which country and with which organizations it is happening. But, again, I clarify. I’m sure my colleagues will be interested in such cooperation with Canadian clinics.
Senator Kutcher: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you. We have come to the end of round one. Deputy Prime Minister, I have a question for you. It’s a delicate one in the sense that two years is a long time for a donor community to step up on an emergency basis and to then sustain its efforts. The conferences, the World Bank and the European — all of that has helped. But in our countries, we also have elections, and elections and campaigns can have an impact, and none more so than our neighbour to the south.
I’m wondering whether you have any comments about how you are trying to convince the American political sphere, in its entirety, that sticking with Ukraine for the long haul is, in fact, important because it’s obviously existential for you.
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much for your question. Again, we have proven, especially during the last year in 2023, that we can win and we are just — I’m just talking about our economy. For example, this new corridor that we were able to open by ourselves in the Black Sea is bringing us additional tax revenue in 2024. In the first two months, we have had significant additional tax revenue. Again, it’s just a simple example. We opened this corridor, and our key export industries were restarted — the agriculture, the steel industry, the export of iron ore.
Even during the war, even after such destruction, we are coming back to pre-war figures. In our model, we are becoming more sustainable. For some industries, as I said, people are coming back home. For me, we are proving that in separate sectors we can win even during the war.
The situation on the front line is much more complicated. We depend on ammunition supply and ammunition production, a lot of challenges, a lot of things happening. Again, in production of different types of drones, I think we are on the cutting edge of all these technologies and we are proving, again, right now, we are creating this industry from scratch. I think we are the number one country in terms of usage and development of such technologies. We will share this experience with our allies with pleasure, and I hope all those technologies will help us to win.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We’ll move to round two.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you. I certainly would be neglectful if I didn’t say that I know we’re asking lots of different questions today, and we know you are spread very thin, but the information is very helpful, particularly from meeting to meeting.
One of the last times that we met, I had asked questions around the loss of children in Ukraine; children who were abducted, children in Russia, children in camps, children for a variety of reasons — the numbers were mounting significantly. I’m wondering today if you are able to comment on that, if there is some success in bringing the children home.
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you very much for your question. Again, the special initiative from the presidential office in regard to bringing our children back, it’s happening — I wouldn’t say each day or each week, but almost each month. We see efforts that we support in some countries; we were able to bring back in Ukraine some children.
Yes, we understand that we are talking about thousands, and we were able to bring back home some of our children, but we are working on this. Again, we are grateful for all countries which joined to this initiative of the presidential office.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you.
Senator Harder: Deputy Prime Minister, in the briefing material I have been reading, it talks about how you in your recovery office are decentralizing authority and ensuring that the capacity of the oblast and regional authorities is strengthened. Can you comment on how that is going and whether you see a level of decentralization becoming a feature of post-war Ukraine?
Mr. Kubrakov: Decentralization was one of the most successful reforms in Ukraine. It started in 2016, and during the war we are trying to maintain this reform regarding reconstruction. So far, about 80% of full reconstruction projects were implemented by communities or on the level of the oblast. Again, our approach is next. Communities on the ground better understand their own priorities. Again, we have to define priorities between sectors, but which hospital or which school is more important for the community? Our approach is just to leave this choice on the level of communities and the implementation as well.
What we are focusing on, for example, there are some communities in Kherson region where, unfortunately, heads of communities disappeared when those territories were de‑occupied. In these territories, there are no local self-governments on the ground. In this case, central government and agencies for restoration are in charge of restoration projects.
All other cases, most projects are still implemented by communities on the level of the oblast, but in order to control these projects or at least to receive some information of what’s going on, the progress, we have the DREAM ecosystem which helps us just to understand the progress and just to help us with some accountability.
The Chair: Thank you. Deputy Prime Minister, we have a couple more minutes left. I don’t have senators who want to ask questions, so I would like to give the floor to you, if you have a last message for this committee.
Mr. Kubrakov: Again, I would like to emphasize, thank you very much for this opportunity to explain where we are, our priorities right now, our challenges. I hope that, again, support of your country, of your people to Ukraine will continue. All aspects are very important, as we discussed.
Military assistance, it’s still priority number one. Restoration efforts, support of the use of Russian assets, all these topics, they are critical, they are important. Again, thank you for this opportunity to explain our needs and our priorities at this stage of this war.
The Chair: Thank you, Deputy Prime Minister Kubrakov. Thank you for meeting with us today. We admire what you are doing, and I think I can speak for everyone that Canada and Canadians are with you on your mission. Be well. And I hope that we can have you back at a future date. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kubrakov: Thank you so much.
The Chair: Thank you.
Colleagues, we will now move to our second panel to continue our discussion from yesterday on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
We are pleased to welcome by video conference, from the International Committee of the Red Cross, or ICRC, Patrick Hamilton, Head of Regional Delegation for the U.S. and Canada, who joins us today from Washington, D.C.; and Lucia Elmi, Special Representative in the State of Palestine, UNICEF, who joins us from Jerusalem. Welcome. Thank you both for being with us.
We look forward to your comments but before proceeding to questions, I want to remind colleagues that this is a sensitive subject. Let’s keep our discussion high level and respectful. I urge everyone to exercise due restraint and caution. I would remind all of you that the specific topic of this panel is the humanitarian situation on the ground in Gaza.
Mr. Hamilton, you have the floor.
Patrick Hamilton, Head of Regional Delegation for the U.S. and Canada, International Committee of the Red Cross: Thank you very much for this opportunity to be with you. Before I start, please allow me to express our thanks at the ICRC for the ongoing support of the Canadian government to the ICRC, to the Canadian Red Cross as well as to the broader Red Cross and Red Crescent movement and our humanitarian mandate. It is hugely appreciated. This opportunity is an expression of that as well, so thank you.
From the horrific attacks in Israel on October 7 to the catastrophic humanitarian situation in Gaza, there has only been relentless human suffering in this current conflict. For more than five months, my colleagues and I have listened to the stories of families whose loved ones were taken hostage.
Nothing can justify the attacks Israel suffered on Oct. 7. Since day one, the ICRC has made its views clear that carrying out an act of hostage taking is prohibited under international humanitarian law. We continue to insist with Hamas on the hostages’ unconditional release and are doing everything in our power to gain access to them.
Meanwhile, civilians are still leaving northern areas of Gaza in precarious and unsafe conditions. Men, women and children, waving white flags, have walked for dozens of kilometres past dead bodies lying on the streets and without necessities like food and water. There is nowhere further south of Rafah for them to go.
Intense hostilities have seen the near-total collapse of the health system, and most patients will go without treatment. The constant stress, lack of proper nutrition and inability to access safe water and sanitation facilities have created a serious risk of diseases like cholera, diarrhea, dysentery, hepatitis A and typhoid.
Many of the patients in Gaza who we see are children. Some of them have lost their entire family. Babies have been born and buried in this conflict — an unacceptable reality of how civilians pay the highest price. When patients are discharged, they have nowhere to go, so they remain in the hospital, hoping for some safety.
The rules of war exist to help preserve humanity in our darkest moments, and they desperately need to be followed today. This means civilians cannot be attacked. They cannot be taken hostage. They must receive humanitarian assistance like food, water and medical care. Medical facilities and personnel must be allowed to safely help those in need. Detainees must be treated humanely and permitted to communicate with family. If international humanitarian law is not duly respected, civilian suffering will only worsen, and a political solution to end the bloodshed over the longer term will be harder to find.
Right now, the humanitarian aid entering Gaza does not match the needs that our team sees on the ground. A cessation of hostilities is needed to allow desperately needed aid to reach civilians throughout the entire Gaza Strip. Israel, as the occupying power, must ensure that the basic needs of the civilian population, including access to medical care, are met.
As soon as the conditions allow, the ICRC is prepared to significantly step up its assistance alongside our movement partners including the Canadian Red Cross and the Palestine Red Crescent Society. The ICRC can significantly expand food, shelter and hygiene assistance, swiftly scaling up our support for these vital services if we are enabled to do so.
International humanitarian law provides fundamental rules to preserve humanity that applies equally to the population of Gaza and Israel, to all detainees and to anyone held hostage. War is not a lawless space. The suffering must end.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Hamilton. Ms. Elmi, please.
Lucia Elmi, Special Representative in the State of Palestine, UNICEF: Thank you. Good morning and good afternoon. I would like to seize this opportunity to give thanks to the people and the Government of Canada for the support of all children whenever there is suffering. Since October 7, all children — Israeli children; Palestinian children — are suffering, have been killed and have been taken hostage. It is a tragedy and we are here for every child.
I just returned from the Gaza Strip where I visited my team. What we have seen in the last six months is a catastrophic humanitarian situation particularly for children. Half the population in the Gaza Strip are below the age of 18. It is a young population, so you can imagine the suffering they have been going through.
Thousands are being killed by armed violence and the remaining are living in conditions that are rapidly deteriorating, raising the risk of preventable deaths of children from diseases and also from malnutrition.
The speed at which the catastrophic crisis for children has unfolded is shocking and unprecedented, particularly when the needed assistance is just a few miles away. You must also have seen the report of the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, or IPC, in the Famine Review Committee which pointed out a deteriorating nutrition situation with respect to the warning trend highlighted last December.
The results of the IPC are catastrophic. Almost all the population in the Gaza Strip, including children, are affected by what is called a severe or catastrophic food security, and for children under age 5, malnutrition. One out of three children in the northern Gaza Strip are affected by global acute malnutrition. The rating of severe acute malnutrition is the worst form of malnutrition for children. It is up to 4.5% for children under age 2. It is very shocking.
The combination of the lack of food, water, medical supplies, proper shelter, care, protection, hygiene and sanitation are a terrible recipe for a wide-scale spread of diseases. For example, chronic diarrhea has increased 26 times with respect to the same level of the previous years. Women and girls have been severely affected by the conflict and displacement. We are deeply concerned about their safety and security and that of their children.
A recent survey among displaced women in the Rafah area highlighted that 94% do not feel safe in their temporary shelters and 95% do not have enough money to meet the basic needs of themselves and of their children.
When I was in Rafah a few days ago, and I was walking through some of the formal shelters, I met a family — two women, two sisters — who were telling me in quite good English, because they were teachers, that the situation is so dire that they started to notice that their hair is falling out and their teeth and their nails are also chipping. This is the result of the very severe food poverty that they are affected by. It is calcium, in essence.
It is not only having access to a few kilos of flour or a few pieces of bread; it is really having the proper nutrition for pregnant women. And for children under five, it means micronutrients. It means protein and vitamins, and this cannot be brought in in the quantity that is needed at the moment.
It also needs to be locally produced, vegetables, fruit and dairy products. It is a very complex situation that has not only been solvable with flour, water or bread, particularly for children.
First and foremost, our priority should focus on the delivery of critical life-saving supplies and getting basic services up and running, including the health services, which have been dismantled.
In the coming months, we really need to make sure that with the scenarios in front of us, we focus on three things: First, life‑saving infrastructure and the resumption of essential social services, health services, social protection and social care. Second, temporary basic provision of accommodations, basic infrastructure, while the more permanent structures, when construction will be possible, could be put in place after a permanent ceasefire. Third, the resumption of education and learning. It is also the best way to reach those children who have been heavily traumatized in terms of mental health and psychosocial needs. We are estimating that basically all of the child population in the Gaza Strip are in need of specialized mental health and psychosocial support.
You can help us in continuing to advocate with all of us, and we appreciate the support of the Government of Canada in calling for a ceasefire to really make sure that we have an immediate humanitarian ceasefire and, very soon, a more long‑term political solution. All hostages, including the two remaining Israeli children, need to be released and be reunited with their families.
We also need your support in continuing to advocate for the multiple land border crossings to allow aid to arrive at the scale and predictability that is needed to stop and prevent an even more catastrophic humanitarian impact on children.
We also need a reduction in border security restrictions because — as my colleague from the ICRC mentioned — there are many bureaucratic bottlenecks in getting aid in but also getting aid across the Gaza Strip. We also need resumption of commercial activity and local production, including food agricultural sectors.
Finally, we also had an opportunity to brief the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister Joly, last week. We really need to continue to put children at the core of all the negotiations for the ceasefire but also for a long-lasting peace that will bring peace for all children in the region, Israeli children and Palestinian children.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Elmi.
[Translation]
Colleagues, I’d like to clarify that, as usual, you have up to four minutes each for the first round of questions, including the question and the answer. I would therefore ask senators and witnesses to be concise. We can always have a second round, time permitting.
[English]
Colleagues, I would also ask you to be clear as to whom you are directing the question.
Senator Coyle: Thank you very much to our two witnesses today for the work you are doing and also for sharing with us the priorities of the situation for the children and all people of the Gaza Strip and Israel.
Ms. Elmi, you mentioned that really what is needed is a long‑lasting peace for all children, and you talked about the killing of children in Israel as well as in Gaza and children being taken hostage. You mentioned a ceasefire being absolutely essential to being able to provide the humanitarian assistance that is required.
Could you tell us a little more, Ms. Elmi, about the difference that ceasefire would make? There was a ceasefire earlier on. What difference did that make, and what could this ceasefire that now is being called for by Canada, by you and many others, what difference will that make to the humanitarian situation?
Ms. Elmi: Thank you for your questions.
Absolutely, a long-lasting ceasefire and peace will really provide an opportunity for all children to receive care, support and be reunited with their families, Palestinian children and Israeli children.
The five or six days at the end of October or the beginning of November of last year, helped us. It was a humanitarian pause. It was not — unfortunately, it was still called a ceasefire. It was a humanitarian pause that allowed the humanitarian community to bring in additional aid and to also have for children and their families some respite to be able to reunite with their families and with their extended communities.
We were able to bring in additional supplies. We were able to organize some of the recreational activities in the shelter to bring children together for the first time without the fear of the bombardments. And also it allowed 34 Israeli children hostages to be reunited with their families and their communities. At the same time also, there were a number of Palestinian children that were released from detention and were able to be reunited with their families.
If we are having a ceasefire now, it would also be longer in nature. Of course, there would be the release of the hostages. They are negotiating, but it would be a longer time allowed to families and children to be reunited. We estimate that there are approximately 17,000 children that could be separated or unaccompanied, so that will help in the very long process of identifying those children, tracing them, tracing their families — if they are still alive — and reuniting them with their families.
We have over 350 trucks waiting at the border with the Egyptian side ready to go in immediately, and a large number of supplies as well that are being flown in or brought in in different ways, both from the Egyptian corridor and the Jordanian corridor.
There is so much needed: therapeutic feeding, the connectors for the repair of the water systems, the recreational kits and more medical supplies. It will have an impact on that delivery of essential life-saving supplies for children.
Senator Coyle: Thank you.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you both so very much for being here.
I will carry on with the border and supply issue questions, if you don’t mind.
This question, Ms. Elmi, I will ask you first, is with respect to the sea corridor plan for aiding Gaza. Obviously, aid is needed, but it is barely a percentage of what is needed to save the population there from mass starvation. Is there a concern in your work circles as to whether this plan might take the pressure off Israel to open up the land borders and that the international community might think that this is an effective workaround and will move on, in a way? I wonder what you think, from your perspective, on this land versus sea?
Ms. Elmi: Thank you.
As we were saying, what we have been advocating for as the humanitarian community is really multiple land crossings to be able to reach the population wherever they are, including in the south, of course, the middle area and the north. This is the advocacy that we have been undertaking from the very beginning.
The opening of more options, including from the sea, of course, is also an opportunity to bring in additional aid, but that should not divert from the advocacy, as you were right to say, and the pressure to open multiple border crossings that will facilitate entry.
To give you an example, the successful attempt to bringing in supplies from the sea — less than eight trucks. It is additional, but we need to continue to have advocacy to open multiple border crossings and open more avenues because there are 2 million people in need of basically all the assistance that they require at this point in time.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for that. Carrying on with that area of food restrictions into the Gaza, you have explained that quite well. Historically, it’s not new in the Gaza Strip; Israel — which is enabled by Egypt — has controlled the amount of food and water going into the Gaza before this war. We had a witness this week who talked about the Gaza diet, which was restricted water and food, which already presents a lower level of health. We’ve seen that confirmed by different documents we have read over time.
I am wondering about what the effects of what we are seeing today would be such as the long-term health effects for those children who live through this. They are coming in already below a baseline that we can hardly understand.
Ms. Elmi: Thank you. This is true, and this is what we have been advocating for. It’s not only food. Particularly for child malnutrition, what we call wasting is a combination of appropriate nutritious food, micronutrients, vitamins, fresh products and proteins that cannot be provided with only the food assistance that is coming in. Water sanitation and hygiene conditions — we are very concerned about the increase of diarrhea and also the appearance of new diseases. Hepatitis A was not present in the Gaza Strip before this.
It is also access to medical care. We have a report from the World Health Organization that the majority of health services in the Gaza Strip have been dismantled. So severe acute malnutrition has long-lasting effects on the psychosocial cognitive development of children. This is bad news: There are some effects that are irreversible. Even if there is a ceasefire started tomorrow, in the best condition, it takes eight weeks for a child who has severe malnutrition — in the best conditions, meaning access to fresh water and clean sanitation, access to appropriate food and medical care — to recover. It is eight weeks. We are talking about a ceasefire of a few days — 40 days — only. That is not a sufficient time of that recovery.
The Chair: I’m sorry. I’m going to interrupt you. We are over time. I know we can come back to those very important points.
Senator Harder: Thank you to our guests for being with us but, more importantly, for the work you do in these difficult circumstances.
My first question is to Mr. Hamilton and Ms. Elmi. It is with respect to the duty of care of your own staff. Could you report to us how you are dealing with that, what number of staff do you have and how do you work rotation, if you are able to?
Mr. Hamilton: Thank you for the question. The ICRC has been present in Gaza and Israel for many decades, since 1967. Regrettably, this is far from being the first round of conflict that we have found ourselves in the midst of and had to respond to. On October 7, we had about 125 to 130 staff present in Gaza, and we still have 130 staff in Gaza. We have rotated some of them. We have been able to bring in a mobile surgical team that, since early November, has been operating out of the European Gaza hospital. It is an international surgical team. We have been negotiating to get in a second surgical team for several months. We are hopeful the deployment of that team is imminent. In total, a couple dozen of those staff are international staff, including the surgical team, and the others are Palestinian staff.
It has been an extremely difficult security environment in which to operate. Staff had to evacuate from northern Gaza down to the south. At this point, it has become almost impossible to do much more with our staff than to have them operate in and around the European Gaza hospital. So it is a really difficult situation.
We have lost several staff members. The Palestinian Red Crescent Society has lost some 12 staff. Magen David Adom has lost several health workers as well. As a humanitarian community, not to mention others out and beyond, we are certainly paying part of the price of the hostilities taking place.
We are working constantly with the Israeli Defence Forces to try to ensure the coordination of humanitarian access into and around the Gaza Strip, not least for the Palestinian Red Crescent Society staff members who are moving around in their ambulances, but clearly the access, security and safety of all of that is not nearly what we would like it to be.
The Chair: I will allow you a little extra time, Ms. Elmi.
Ms. Elmi: We still have Palestinian colleagues in the north, and they are able to support some operations in difficult conditions.
The majority of our Palestinian staff is in Rafah at the moment, and we made sure to secure for them accommodation and working space. We have 10 international staff in several areas, especially in water and sanitation, health and nutrition. We are able to rotate.
One word on rotation. Before, from my office in Jerusalem to my office in Gaza, it would take two hours. Now it takes two and a half days because humanitarian workers are allowed only to go through Rafah — the Egyptian side — so in terms of facilitating access to humanitarian workers from Jerusalem as well in cost‑effective ways.
Senator Woo: Thank you, witnesses.
I want to ask you to help us understand very plainly why the most basic of medical supplies and food are not getting into Gaza and that we have resorted to second- and third-best solutions, such as a sea route and airdrops.
Mr. Hamilton mentioned that the cessation of hostilities was required for a resumption of humanitarian assistance. Is that, in fact, the condition under which the most basic of supplies — food and medical aid — are able to get into Gaza? Why are we not seeing a flood of these basic things going into Gaza? If you can be as plain as possible to help us understand what is stopping this from happening.
Mr. Hamilton: Thank you, yes.
The primary responsibility for ensuring the civilian access to essential goods and services lies with the parties to the conflict. That responsibility is then secondarily held by humanitarian organizations and others. So the parties to the conflict, in this instance, hold that primary responsibility for ensuring that civilians have access to essential goods and service.
You’re right that international humanitarian law also ensures the application of that rule, whether a cessation of hostilities is taking place as well. We have been advocating from the launch of the hostilities back in early October that there needs to be a steady, robust and adequate provision of essential goods and services into the Gaza Strip as long as those hostilities are going and well after to meet the needs of the population.
I think that we, along with our counterparts at the UN, are now arguing that a ceasefire is needed in categorical terms because of the scale and severity that the needs have arrived to at this moment in time. The only way to be able to begin to adequately try and address those needs meaningfully at this point is because the needs are so severe and huge and because that steady, robust stream of aid deliveries into Gaza has not been enough.
As mentioned, international humanitarian law provides for aid to be delivered and for civilians to receive what they need while active hostilities are ongoing. Regrettably, that has not been sufficient since the outbreak of these hostilities in early October.
Ms. Elmi: I just wanted to complement to the effect that we are cooperating in a very insecure environment under very heavy bombardment. They are still very active, so to deliver humanitarian assistance safely, you can imagine the kind of challenges humanitarian workers are going through, including at their own risk.
Most of the territory has been closed. The north has been sealed for many months, and every movement needs to be approved and coordinated by the parties to the conflict, particularly one party to the conflict. We have seen, particularly in December, January and February, the number of rejections of the convoy going north, as an example in other areas. That has created a situation — basically, an impasse — where the people have been deprived for so many months, and anything that now attempts to be brought in is received with a very high level of frustration by the population.
Also, for Rafah, the number of security checks on every truck that goes in means that a truck from Egypt, until it gets to the Gaza side, needs to be offloaded and reloaded five to seven times. So you can see how the processing time becomes very slow because of the security checks of the material.
Number three — and the last point — there are a still a number of items and there is not a definitive list of so-called dual-use material that cannot be brought in or the procedure is very unclear on bringing in certain material, such as connectors for the water system or some surgical material because they have metals as well as other material that, until now, they have not been able to bring in for almost six months.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I’d like to thank the witnesses for being with us today. I’m going to stay a bit on the same topic.
In early March, President Biden ordered the U.S. Army to build a temporary bridge in Gaza to get more humanitarian aid there. His aim was to ensure that the ships delivered a few more aid trucks every day.
He indicated that the UN and humanitarian organizations would be involved in building the bridge. Were you consulted about this initiative? If so, how do you view its feasibility and effectiveness?
Ms. Elmi: Thank you for the question. First of all, it will take time for the U.S. Army to build a bridge. At the moment, there is no adequate infrastructure. Most of the roads in the Gaza Strip have been destroyed. There is a very high level of destruction. Even if there is direct access to the sea, there are still logistical challenges because of the lack of roads, infrastructure and trucks that can do the distribution. This is a real concern.
What’s more, the Gaza Strip isn’t very big; we’re talking about some 42 kilometres. There are also ports on the Israeli side that are very close to the north. The issue is always the same. Of course, any support is welcome, but the important thing is really to keep up the pressure to open several roads, especially those that are closer and more efficient.
Sigrid Kaag, the coordinator of humanitarian action and reconstruction in Gaza, has been involved; there are negotiations under way this week, not just in relation to these ports, but also on a broader initiative, the Amalthea initiative, with the aim of building more sustainable infrastructure. I know that Ms. Kaag is on site this week to continue discussions with the parties on this matter.
Senator Gerba: Thank you very much.
[English]
The Chair: Mr. Hamilton, would you like to make a comment?
Mr. Hamilton: Briefly, to build on Ms. Elmi’s comments, the ICRC welcomes any initiative that allows for more civilians in Gaza to receive these essential goods and services at this point in time given the gravity of the situation. But I think it does indeed speak — this and the airdrops — to the gravity and severity of the situation and the struggles that we, as a humanitarian community and the civilian population on the ground, are observing in the way that this conflict is being played out. We have historically always seen measures like airdrops as being an absolute last resort and a truly desperate measure, and I think those have to be seen in that light in this instance.
As Ms. Elmi said, it’s one thing to bring the aid to the coastline, to the pier or to drop it, but then what about the distribution out and across the territory of Gaza? There is no replacing the ability to be able to organize that aid once it has arrived to a particular location in Gaza to ensure that the people who need it can indeed benefit from it appropriately.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you to both of you for the work that you are doing. My question is for Mr. Hamilton.
I was wondering to what extent you have been able to make contact with the hostages who are currently being held by Hamas. Furthermore, are you able to reach and monitor those Palestinians held in Israeli detention as an outcome of this crisis?
Mr. Hamilton: Thank you very much for that question. For all that we have been declaring from the outset of the conflict since October 7, the readiness of our organization and our team to have access and to do whatever we can on behalf of the hostages, to help them in any way, one is obviously to facilitate their release — should it be agreed to — as well as to visit the Palestinian detainees. At this point, we have not had access to either since October 7.
Senator Ravalia: Even through sort of indirect connections or word of mouth, you have not been able to make contact at all?
Mr. Hamilton: No, but in both instances, we have been doing all that we can to try to urge the parties to ensure that we do have access and can carry out our regular role to visit, to assess needs and to provide for those needs, where possible.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you. The second part of my question is for Ms. Elmi.
We have witnessed the transportation of acute medical emergent cases to Qatar. To what extent are you able to access this type of support for those you feel are in imminent danger, including children and babies who are starving and malnourished?
Ms. Elmi: Thank you. Yes, there have been a number of children who have been medically evacuated, but it’s a very small fraction with respect to what is needed at the moment.
There have also been a lot of bureaucratic bottlenecks and screening for medical evacuation, and these are not — the World Health Organization is reporting that there are at least 8,000 people in need of medical evacuation that have not been able to be medevaced. There are 6,000 wounded because of the conflict, including children, and 2,000 were chronically ill people with previous conditions, including cancer treatment, who are unable to be out. So the focus is really to continue to advocate for those medevacs to resume and to bring out the people who are in critical situations.
Of course, there is the article of “the best interests of the child,” meaning that they need to be accompanied by a caregiver, preferably a parent. Well, unfortunately, at the moment, the condition is that children may be allowed to be evacuated but with a female accompanied guardian above the age of 55. As you know, the population in Gaza is very young. If you are 5 years old, the likelihood of your parents to be above 55 is actually quite limited.
We really need to ensure that the article — “the best interests of the child” — is paramount in all the medevac advocacy.
The Chair: Thank you.
I have two very basic questions, and they are for both of you. Since this is a protracted situation, are you concerned about donor fatigue among major donors? That’s the first one.
And the second one: Is there a sense that neighbouring countries — I’m thinking in particular of the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia — could step up more or are they doing enough in terms of the humanitarian assistance they could provide through you?
Mr. Hamilton: From our perspective, we are concerned about donor fatigue, but not so much in relation to this context right now but rather towards just about every other context, of which there are many and of which needs are huge. The Democratic Republic of the Congo and Sudan are just two obvious examples — Haiti — which are very live at the moment and for which we are struggling more in terms of donor fatigue.
In terms of engagement by other states, what we feel is that the international humanitarian law, the normative framework, is owned, first and foremost, by states rather than by us at the ICRC. Through that, of course, we have that really strong association to the Geneva Conventions, but the law itself is owned by the states. We would simply urge all states with influence around this conflict to do more to ensure that international humanitarian law is respected by the parties to the conflict in this instance. Thank you.
Ms. Elmi: With regard to UNICEF, in addition to what my colleague from ICRC has mentioned, we have seen general support for the first six months from many member states, including Canada, for this particular crisis. But, equally, we know that this crisis and the crises around the world are facing a number of constraints, and there are a number of forgotten crises. We need to continue to advocate for those crises as well. There are 400 million children affected by conflict globally at the moment. So it is something, of course, that is at the top of our agenda.
It is also important to continue to — member states, of course, are owners of the international humanitarian law framework, but also in terms of advocacy for the respect of humanitarian law and international human rights. So your advocacy as a member state is critical, and we need to maintain that level of engagement not only for resource mobilization but, really, for the advocacy for the rights of all children to be protected.
Thirdly, what will also be critical, at least moving ahead, is once the critical humanitarian needs will be somehow sustained with the ceasefire, we need to continue to be engaged for the recovery, the reconstruction, including rubble removal, including the [technical difficulties] that led to war. It’s really the long‑term commitment and engagement to ensure that children have access to social services and they can try and develop.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We’re going to move to round two.
Senator Coyle: Both Mr. Hamilton and Ms. Elmi have spoken about how children and all people need to be protected by international humanitarian law. Both of you have talked about that. We have talked about humanitarian assistance, okay, and that’s critical. Absolutely critical. We have heard the case for that.
Now, if you are able, either one of you or both of you, to speak a little bit about your concerns about international humanitarian law in these cases — both in terms of what has happened in Israel and what is currently going on in Gaza — and what you believe we should be doing here as Canadians to support the enforcement and oversight of international humanitarian law in the context within which you are working.
Mr. Hamilton: Thank you for the question, and I would answer by building off my earlier comments. Of course, we have been seeking, since October 7, to carry out our, in a sense, standard efforts to engage with the two parties to the conflict — Israel on one side, Hamas on the other — about their responsibilities under international humanitarian law in terms of the way that the war is prosecuted. Of course, just to reiterate the point that we have this association to international humanitarian law — the body of law jus in bello — so that applies to the prosecution of war as distinct from the law pertaining to the decision to go to war — jus ad bellum.
So what we are concerned with at the ICRC is solely that engagement around the way that the war is prosecuted. We have been, as I say, seeking to engage with both sides in a bilateral, confidential dialogue around how the hostilities are being prosecuted and the humanitarian needs that are arising from the conflict itself.
That is our responsibility. We have been trying to assume that as actively as we possibly can do since October 7, but, clearly, as already mentioned, the law itself is owned by the member parties to the Geneva Conventions. We have also been advocating for states to take on that responsibility — to, on the one hand, engage, through their political dialogue with their partners and allies in this particular context, with the two parties to the conflict; to also advocate as strongly as possible for international humanitarian law to be respected as well as then to continue to provide robust support to the humanitarian response to the needs on the ground.
Ms. Elmi: Very briefly, we have seen, tragically, what we call grave violations against children in the situation of the conflict, who are being — where all parties were all children. Palestinian children, Israeli children. So those grave violations need to be prevented, of course, need to end and there are mechanisms according to Security Council Resolution 1612.
Canada is the global chair for what is called the Group of Friends on children and armed conflict who look at the recommendations of the Secretary-General Annual Report on Children and Armed Conflict and that mechanism mandated by the Security Council — that mandate needs to be protected and respected.
Canada can play an important role in that mandate, of course, in the integrity of that mandate.
Senator Harder: The Guardian is reporting this morning that Secretary Blinken is going to propose new language at the Security Council for a ceasefire. This is a very welcome development in the sense of putting the weight of the United States behind this effort.
I would like you to speculate a bit based on the trajectory we have been on. If a ceasefire does, in fact, take place, how long would it take for your organizations to put in place the level of support and humanitarian assistance to respond to the level of humanitarian need that you are forecasting and that you are seeing?
Secondly, if that resolution is not accepted by the parties and an assault on Rafah takes place — Ms. Elmi, you have just been to Rafah — what is the further damage to the humanitarian situation that ignoring that resolution would entail?
I would like to hear from both of you, please.
Ms. Elmi: If I understand correctly, you said if there is a ceasefire, how long will it take for the humanitarian community to organize the support. Is this your question?
Senator Harder: That’s correct. If there isn’t and Rafah is attacked, what is the additional humanitarian need that we’ll be faced with?
Ms. Elmi: Thank you. As I was saying, not only UNICEF but the entire humanitarian effort has a large number of trucks ready to go in. For weeks now, we have been working on contingency planning in case of a ceasefire, so we are ready. The material is there and needs to be brought in, facilitated and streamlined — not only brought into Rafah but distributed across the Gaza Strip. There needs to be access to the north, to the middle area, to all communities. So it’s not only bringing it in, but the access to the community. We have material ready and we can scale up further. We have a regular pipeline for the next three months.
To answer your second question, I cannot even imagine the effect that a military operation, with the same intensity we have seen in the north and in the middle area, will have in Rafah. In Rafah, 1.2 million people are pinned at the border with Egypt. There are people living in tents and people living on top of each other. The roads are completely congested. There are 600,000 children in a very small and constrained area. I cannot imagine what bombardment, a ground invasion and rolling in of tanks will do to those communities that already suffer so much. The humanitarian consequences can be nothing less than catastrophic and unimaginable. Thank you.
Mr. Hamilton: Building on Ms. Elmi’s comments, as we have been discussing, the humanitarian situation inside Gaza is already extremely severe. Huge needs are already there, with or without a follow-up operation on Rafah.
Our point would be that no matter what happens next, international humanitarian law continues to apply, and international humanitarian law demands that the parties to the conflict carry out the basics of precautions, distinction and proportionality and demands of them that they do all they can to minimize the impact on the civilian population as well as to provide for their essential needs and services.
As we have discussed, you would normally not need a ceasefire to be able to provide for that. We, among others, have been calling for a ceasefire because the scale of the need is so significant. Irrespective, the legal framework continues to apply and needs to be upheld.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: My question is for Mr. Hamilton. It has recently been reported that UN agency employees working in Jerusalem are having difficulties in renewing residency documents. Are you affected by this? If so, what impact does it have on your work on the ground?
[English]
Mr. Hamilton: Thanks for that. I wouldn’t want to comment on the specifics. Nonetheless, clearly, we, as humanitarian organizations, need to have our work enabled. The term “humanitarian access” is often used in rather narrow terms but, in reality, humanitarian access includes every piece of military operational through to bureaucratic and administrative elements to it. Of course, as international staff going into a context of conflict, our staff needs to have the respective visas and administrative authorizations to be able to carry out our work, no matter where that is.
We, as humanitarians, clearly need to have our work enabled from A to B across all the different considerations that would apply to that, whether it’s at a checkpoint or whether it’s in the administrative bureaucracy of the state.
The Chair: Thank you very much. On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank Lucia Elmi, the UNICEF Special Representative in the State of Palestine, who joined us today from Jerusalem. I would also like to thank Patrick Hamilton, Head of Regional Delegation for the U.S. and Canada of the ICRC, who joined us from New York City. Thank you very much for your comments and for enriching us with your knowledge on what is clearly a very serious situation, and thank you for the work that you do.
(The committee adjourned.)