THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL ECONOMY, BUDGETS AND ADMINISTRATION
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, September 22, 2022
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met with videoconference this day at 9 a.m. [ET] pursuant to rule 12-7(1), for the consideration of financial and administrative matters; and, in camera, pursuant to rule 12-7(1), for the consideration of financial and administrative matters.
Senator Lucie Moncion (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Good morning. My name is Lucie Moncion and I am a senator from Ontario. I have the privilege of chairing the Standing Senate Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
I will introduce the senators participating in this meeting. We have Senator Patricia Bovey, Manitoba; Senator Larry Campbell, British Columbia; Senator Claude Carignan, P.C., Quebec; Senator Dennis Dawson, Quebec; Senator Tony Dean, Ontario; Senator Éric Forest, Quebec; Senator Tony Loffreda, Quebec; Senator Rosemary Moodie, Ontario; Senator Donald Neil Plett, Manitoba; Senator Raymonde St-Germain, Quebec; Senator Judith Seidman, Quebec; Senator Scott Tannas, Alberta; Senator Yuen Pau Woo, British Columbia; Senator Raymonde Gagné, Manitoba,
Welcome also to all those following these proceedings across the country.
[English]
Senators, as a reminder, this meeting will be in person for all members. With limited time allotted between meetings to maximize committee time, disinfectant wipes have been placed on tables so that senators are able to sanitize their places as an added health and safety measure.
Also, just for logistics purposes, we have to leave the room immediately because there is a meeting that follows this one; at 11:30, there is another committee meeting that starts. If there is conversation to be had, we are asking you to leave the room so that the other group can start their meeting.
We are on item 1.
[Translation]
It is the approval of the minutes of the June 23, 2022, meeting.
Honourable senators, it is the first item on the agenda. In your package, you have the minutes of the June 23, 2022, meeting. Are there any questions or changes to the minutes? Would someone like to move the following motion, that the minutes of June 23, 2022 be adopted?
Senator Moodie: I propose that the motion be adopted.
The Chair: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Now for item 2.
[English]
This pertains to membership of CIBA Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. The next item concerns the election of a new deputy chair for CIBA. As you know, with the departure of Senator Smith from the committee, there is a deputy chair vacancy. As such, can I ask Senator Plett to provide —
Senator Plett: Thank you, chair. I would like to move:
That the Honourable Senator Claude Carignan be elected as deputy chair of this committee.
The Chair: Thank you. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Welcome to our committee, Senator Carignan.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: Thank you.
Item 3: membership change in the Advisory Working Group on Environment and Sustainability.
Item 3 pertains to membership in the Advisory Working Group on Environment and Sustainability. Since Senator Smith has left the working group, there is a vacancy. I would therefore ask Senator Plett to propose the following motion.
[English]
Senator Plett: I move:
That the Honourable Senator Smith be removed as a member of the Advisory Working Group on Environment and Sustainability; and
That an honourable senator from the Conservative Party of Canada be added by notice filed with the clerk of the committee by the Leader of the Opposition.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Plett. Are there any comments or questions on the motion? If not, are we all in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues.
Item 4, the report on the Advisory Working Group on Artwork and Heritage Assets, will be brought back at the next meeting. We will not be discussing this item today.
We will move to item 5.
[Translation]
It pertains to the health and safety considerations of lifting the mask mandate. The next item was also prepared at our request and pertains to the health and safety consequences of lifting the mask mandate for in-person and hybrid meetings.
Toni Francis, Chief Human Resources Officer, and Linda Sabourin, Senior Advisor, Occupational Health, Safety and Wellness, will now join the meeting by video conference as witnesses.
As usual, the presentation will be followed by a question period. Ms. Francis, you may begin your presentation.
Toni Francis, Chief Human Resources Officer, Human Resources Directorate, Senate of Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair.
Hello, everyone.
[English]
Following the August 17, 2022, decision of steering, the Senate’s mask mandate was lifted on September 6, 2022. This decision aligned the Senate with the House of Commons, as well as the Ontario and Quebec provincial mandates. The lifting of the mask mandate was deemed to be reasonable given the remaining measures in place, ensuring that the Senate maintained its obligations under the Canada Labour Code and our own occupational health and safety policies.
Following steering’s decision, a communications strategy, intended to raise awareness of the measures and programs that encourage the use of recommended measures, was activated. There are measures and programs in place, including the promotion of preventive measures such as hand hygiene, the wearing of masks should one contract COVID-19 after the recovery period, respecting physical distance, wearing the wristband program and our voluntary rapid-testing program all serve as options to mitigate the risk of contracting and/or transmitting COVID-19 in the workplace. Active focus has been placed on continuing to prepare preventive measures and programs should the current situation change.
There is a focus on accommodating employees or senators who wish to have access to measures based on a personal risk assessment or a personal preference. In the absence of a mask mandate, organizers of Senate events or meetings must assess the risks associated with hosting the events or meetings and be responsible for ensuring appropriate measures are in place, are consistent with public health measures, workplace controls and the Senate’s own preventative measures.
Measures must be applied consistently across all sectors of the organization. That will serve to ensure that we mitigate the risk of workplace transmission and any formal work refusal for unsafe working conditions related to the transmission or possible transmission of COVID-19.
Assistance from our own occupational health, safety and wellness team may be requested to support the planning of events. Human Resources is currently working on a tool to be posted on IntraSen, our intranet, to assist meeting and event organizers. The Senate continues to be vigilant in its review of public health guidance and will be ready to reinstate and adapt its preventive measures accordingly should a wave of COVID-19 be declared.
Thank you, senators and Madam Chair. We’re available for questions, should that be required. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Toni.
Are there any questions or comments for Toni?
[Translation]
Senator Forest: The question that comes to mind is how we will evaluate the measures to be taken if the number of cases increases, even if a new wave is not officially declared. Are there enhanced health and safety measures that could be taken without imposing full health measures?
Ms. Francis: Thank you, senator.
We always follow public health guidelines. If we need guidance, we will follow public health advice and guidelines.
Senator Forest: Thank you.
The Chair: Any other questions or comments?
Senator Carignan: I have a question. I was reading the note and saw what appears to be a contradiction in the application of the Canada Labour Code. On one hand, the note says that we have obligations under the Canada Labour Code, while on the other it says that we are not subject to a fine under the Canada Labour Code.
Are we subject to the Canada Labour Code or not? For the Senate, which measures are mandatory and which are not?
Philippe Hallée, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, Senate of Canada: Thank you, senator. There is indeed a difference. The regime applies to the Senate, but the Canada Labour Code applies to senators. The only difference is that deference is shown to parliamentary institutions, meaning that instead of having to pay a fine, as other employers would have to, a report would have to be presented in that case to the Senate if there were a real violation.
Senator Carignan: Is that under the Canada Labour Code?
Mr. Hallée: That’s right.
The Chair: If you are comfortable letting the committee present that, we will assume that this file is proceeding and that we will monitor the COVID situation and other health situations, as we have done diligently over the past two years. Thank you, Ms. Francis.
[English]
For the next item, Toni Francis, Chief Human Resources Officer, Human Resources Directorate is already with us and Monique Daigle, Director, HR Operations, Human Resources Directorate will be joining us. As usual, the presentation will be followed by time for questions. So either Toni or Monique will now make the presentation.
Ms. Francis: An applicant tracking system, otherwise known as ATS, is software used by employers to track candidates throughout the recruiting and hiring process. The automation of this work has allowed human resource organizations the opportunity to focus their resources on other priorities, both operationally and strategically.
The Senate’s current applicant tracking system called Njoyn has been in place since 2013. The contract will end on March 31, 2023. All options have been exhausted. The current version of Njoyn is no longer available.
[Translation]
The technology has also evolved a great deal and Senate human resources wants to be a leader in recruitment in order to attract the best talent. A modern and effective system would enable us to meet that objective.
[English]
The preferred or ideal applicant tracking system will have the ability to support an end-to-end paperless recruitment and onboarding process, deliver a positive user experience for candidates and all of our HR practitioners.
[Translation]
The ideal system will provide transparent tracking of internal and external candidates throughout the various stages of the recruitment process. We want to optimize the staffing stages, including communications pertaining to the status of employment offers for managers and candidates.
[English]
Modern features will allow us to hide candidate information, allowing us to blind screen our staffing processes, a key component in support of the Senate’s objectives under diversity, equity and inclusion.
We’re looking for a customized communications with Senate branding, a portal with the Senate website look and feel and to have templates that automatically populate.
Of importance is that the system must provide easy extracts for statistics and key matrix. We like to measure how we’re doing in terms of time to hire, time to fill positions, how long our postings are up and where we’re attracting our candidates from. Human Resources Directorate is seeking CIBA’s approval to advance the competitive procurement process with the intention to enter a five-year contract with five one-year options. The estimated value of the contract is $400,000. The cost will be funded through available funding in the reallocation account.
Thank you, Madam Chair and senators.
[Translation]
Ms. Daigle and I are available to answer your questions. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. Senators, before I open it for questions, I wish to remind you that we are discussing this request for proposals in public. As such, please do not refer to dollar amounts, nor your personal opinion on suppliers, nor the selection criteria, as this could influence the bidding process.
Are there any questions or comments?
Senator Tannas: I’ll try not to mention suppliers. We have an operating system in the Senate that is used in a bunch of facets of the operation. I’m wondering, Toni, can you remind us, do other areas of human resources function on that same system, which accounting, operations and other operations are on?
Ms. Francis: The system is for candidate management, so external applicants who will while we may — sorry.
Senator Tannas: Other human resources are operating on the same system that is —
Monique Daigle, Director, HR Operations, Human Resources Directorate, Senate of Canada: Unit4?
Senator Tannas: Yes. We’re not supposed to mention brand names, but it’s impossible.
Ms. Daigle: It’s our current system.
Senator Tannas: Does Unit4 operate within human resources?
Ms. Francis: Yes. We have functionality that we use on that system.
Senator Tannas: We made that purchase not that long ago. Does Unit4 not have a tracking system for applications?
Ms. Daigle: No, it does not. Unit4 was purchased quite a few years ago, so HR onboarded it in 2018. We do use it for employee data, but unfortunately it doesn’t have the module for applicant tracking.
Senator Tannas: Would you be looking to have whatever the new system is so that you can import all the information over to Unit4? Would that be one of the requirements or would you have some kind of stand-alone system that doesn’t talk to —
Ms. Daigle: It is a desirable requirement. We will be looking at a system that could, but that won’t be the only criteria we’re looking at.
Senator Tannas: Thank you.
The Chair: Are there any other questions or comments, colleagues?
[Translation]
Senator Forest: One of the great challenges in human resources right now is ensuring that our organizations have enough competent replacement workers. Would this system, whose name we do not know, also enable us to make the institution more attractive to people who are not necessarily on Parliament Hill but see a position and would like to work for the Senate because it suits their career path?
In addition to tracking candidates, is making the institution more attractive also a consideration? Is that part of the system’s features?
Ms. Daigle: Yes and no, because the system relates primarily to what happens behind the scenes. What is visible is our website, the development of our website. I think the system currently provides very good information about the Senate, which is very attractive to candidates. We can certainly look at that again to make sure we are indeed an employer of choice. The system itself, however, is behind the scenes.
Senator Forest: Have you ever introduced people completely outside the organization to the Senate website, for students of political science or other fields, to see how they view their career options and to attract them to working for the Senate?
Ms. Daigle: I don’t think we have done a survey, but while we were developing the site, yes, we did look at other sites and other public and private sector organizations.
Senator Forest: Thank you.
Ms. Francis: We also use LinkedIn. The goal is to attract people so they see the Senate somewhere other than its website. We have talked about how we can be an employer of choice and attract people who might not have considered working for the Senate.
Senator Carignan: To pick up on what Senator Forest said, I think it is really a broader issue than that. Have you developed a branding strategy to market the employer on that scale? That is part of the whole strategy to make the Senate more attractive.
Ms. Francis: That is one of our strategies for next year: recruitment and retention at the Senate.
Senator Saint-Germain: I would just like to mention that I will have a question about finances when we go in camera.
The Chair: Very well. Are there any other questions for Ms. Francis or Ms. Daigle? If not, we will continue the conversation in camera. Thank you, Toni and Monique.
We will now move on to item 7, other matters. Are there any questions or topics to be raised with CIBA before we go in camera? Senator Plett?
[English]
Senator Plett: I don’t want any discussion on this necessarily. I’ve already spoken to Pascale about this. There are some serious flaws in the way one of our Rules is written on room allocation that CIBA needs to address. I want it on the record that I have raised it. Without going into great detail, the way the Rules are written now would actually require any group or caucus that wants a room to have to apply every month to get that room for the following month. That wasn’t the intent of the rule when it was written, but that is the way it’s written. That would create quite a competition every month for room allocations.
This needs to be addressed very quickly, whether it’s addressed by steering or whether it’s addressed by the full CIBA. It created some problems. With the help of my good friend Senator Saint-Germain, I think we have worked out the problems in the interim, but it needs to be addressed for the long term.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Plett, for the heads-up. We have been looking at the situation. We will come back to this committee for further guidance. What we know is that we are juggling with rooms and interpretation and the time of the allocations of these different rooms. But we are very much aware. Thank you for bringing it to our attention, Senator Plett. It’s a very important item.
Are there other matters you would like to discuss in public at this time?
[Translation]
Otherwise, we will suspend the meeting briefly so the clerk can make sure we are in camera. I would like to remind everyone all the same that CIBA meetings are usually in public, and that we only go in camera when discussing sensitive matters such as salaries, contracts, contract negotiations, staff relations, and staff or security matters.
CIBA also wishes to be as transparent as possible in the important work it does. I would also ask the clerk to inform the members once we are in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)