THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL ECONOMY, BUDGETS AND ADMINISTRATION
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, May 2, 2024
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met with videoconference this day at 9:02 a.m. [ET] in camera, pursuant to rule 12-7(1) of the Rules of the Senate, to consider financial and administrative matters; and in public, pursuant to rule 12-7(1), to consider financial and administrative matters.
Senator Lucie Moncion (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
(The committee continued in camera.)
(The committee resumed in public.)
The Chair: Good morning. My name is Lucie Moncion, a senator from Ontario, and I have the privilege of chairing the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
I would like to go around the table and ask my colleagues to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
Senator Dalphond: Pierre Dalphond, De Lorimier division, Quebec.
Senator Oudar: Manuelle Oudar, La Salle division, Quebec.
Senator Saint-Germain: Raymonde Saint-Germain from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Tannas: Scott Tannas, Alberta.
Senator Loffreda: Tony Loffreda, Montreal, Quebec.
Senator Dean: Tony Dean, Ontario.
Senator MacAdam: Jane MacAdam, Prince Edward Island.
Senator Moodie: Rosemary Moodie, Ontario.
Senator Smith: Larry Smith, Quebec.
Senator Francis: Brian Francis, Epekwitk, Prince Edward Island.
Senator Quinn: Jim Quinn, New Brunswick.
Senator MacDonald: Michael MacDonald, Nova Scotia.
[Translation]
Senator Cormier: René Cormier from New Brunswick.
[English]
Senator Al Zaibak: Mohammad Al Zaibak, Ontario.
Senator Seidman: Judith Seidman, Montreal, Quebec.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: Good morning. Claude Carignan, Mille Isles division, Quebec.
The Chair: I would also like to welcome everyone following our proceedings across the country.
Honourable senators, the first item is the consent agenda for approval. As a reminder, the items on the consent agenda are uncontroversial but do require our approval. For these items, a briefing note, form and other supporting documents are submitted in advance, but no presentation is required. For today’s meeting, we have the following items on the consent agenda: the minutes of the public portion of the March 28, 2024 meeting, the minutes of the in camera portion of the March 28, 2024 meeting and a request for proposal on interpretation services for travelling committees.
Senators, do you have any questions or concerns about any of the items on the consent agenda?
Since I don’t see any, could someone move the following motion:
That the consent agenda be approved.
Senator Saint-Germain has so moved. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The motion is carried. The next item concerns documents sent out for information purposes. This week, there were five such documents: the quarterly report on intellectual property applications, the report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure on biennial exemptions to the Senators’ Office Management Policy, the report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure on decisions referred to the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, the follow-up to the question raised at the February 29 committee meeting on simultaneous interpretation, and Senator Anderson’s report on her travels to Alaska.
Senators, do you have any questions or comments about this document? I don’t see any, so thank you.
[English]
Senators, starting next Monday, we’ll have changes to the working of the Senate. We’ll have a Clerk of the Senate who will be coming into effect. In order for this to be brought forward, it was asked that we change the SARs to reflect the new structure where we have the Clerk of the Senate identified.
[Translation]
Jesse, the page, will hand out the table with the changes. They are not big changes, but they reflect the structure we are putting back in place, the one that existed before the changes were made in 2013 or 2014, around 10 years ago.
We’re giving you the document so that you can see the adjustments. They are minor adjustments that could be approved this morning so that the structure can be in place as of Monday. I’d like to hear your comments on whether you’re comfortable with this approval or not.
I’m aware that you’re receiving the report on short notice. It’s something I try to avoid as much as possible, but considering the few in-person meetings we have and the significance of the change, I’m ready to hear your comments on it.
Senator Saint-Germain: I took the time to look over it and I agree. I have a question, which will be a proposal if the answer is no. Does this authorize the clerk to automatically make any other changes to align the terms of all other administrative policies where the executive committee is referred to rather than the clerk? Is that included?
Philippe Hallée, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, Senate of Canada: That is provided for in the motion. A review of all existing applicable Senate Administration policies will take place over the next few weeks, and that will obviously take some time. Another component is that the interpretation motion will allow existing policies to be read by substituting the term “Clerk of the Senate” for “Executive Committee” and “Sector Head” for “member of the Executive Committee”. This covers the vast majority of policies in place, and minimal adjustments will be made, but at least it ensures that interpretation is already provided for. This work will be done over the coming months.
Senator Saint-Germain: Regarding interpretation, when you say that all this will be in effect from this date until the policy instruments have been updated to reflect the new structure, I have a specific question. I had understood that it didn’t, but does this motion give you the authority required to make changes to all policy instruments without going back to the Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration each time to change a few words? That’s what I meant by my question.
Mr. Hallée: Yes, that will be the case. It requires the approval of the Internal Economy Committee. In some cases, adjustments could be highlighted, but generally speaking, that’s the spirit in which we’re making these changes. We could also consolidate them for information purposes for the committee, so that all the changes are very transparent. As I said, in the vast majority of cases, what we’re planning is that the substitution of terms will cover all circumstances, and when there are more specific changes, we can bring them to the attention of the Internal Economy Committee when the time comes.
Senator Saint-Germain: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Moodie: When I reflect upon what had been the most recent administrative structure, did the clerk then have any distinctly different authorities to the clerk now coming into place?
Mr. Hallée: It’s comparable. It’s ultimately the responsibility for the administration. They went to the clerk to the Executive Committee, and now back to the clerk.
Senator Moodie: What I’m hearing is that it’s pretty much unchanged.
The Chair: Are there any other questions or comments?
Senator Quinn: We’re changing to the equivalency of a deputy head of a department, a deputy minister. Was the previous clerk a deputy minister as well? Okay.
Senator MacDonald: In the same vein, is this similar to the practice in the House of Commons? Is there any major difference?
Mr. Hallée: The structure is essentially similar, where —
Senator MacDonald: In terms of the relationship?
Mr. Hallée: — the clerk has the overall responsibility for the whole administration.
The Chair: Are there any other questions or comments?
Are we comfortable with me bringing this to the chamber to have these changes put in?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues. I moved the approval, and you have agreed. Thank you, it is carried.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: Was there a motion from the Internal Economy Committee to congratulate the new clerk? Can we add it?
[English]
The Chair: Senators, at a previous meeting, a point was raised about travel phones. I wish to inform you that the administration prepared a business case for consideration by steering. It was agreed that the status quo would remain in order to avoid increased costs.
[Translation]
Senators, are there any other questions or concerns you would like to bring to the attention of the committee?
Senator Saint-Germain: As a committee, I’d like us to adopt a motion of congratulations to Gérald Lafrenière for the exemplary way he has assumed his mandate in challenging circumstances, in particular as head of the Senate Administration during the pandemic.
I think I speak for everyone in highlighting his great worth and in expressing our appreciation for his tremendous professionalism.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!
Senator Carignan: We just want you to take a bow, not bow out.
The Chair: Yes, let’s make that clear.
[English]
We will have a note in the minutes.
Senator Quinn: I’m just raising this because you mentioned travel telephones. Could somebody look at the type of service plans we have for our cellphones? If you’re travelling outside of Canada, we don’t have the option of getting a locked in one price for a period of time. Every day is I think it’s $15 for roaming, et cetera. I don’t know all the technicalities in the back of it, but I know in my past experiences you could buy a package that would cover you for a good period of time and you wouldn’t incur extra charges.
I’m just asking if we could have that looked at. Maybe our provider doesn’t provide it; if not, why not? Because most providers do.
The Chair: Okay. We can bring a presentation forward. I know that when you are using the Senate’s devices, their roaming is covered by the Senate. There is a cost there, but we can bring it back at that level.
Senator Quinn: Yes, if you don’t mind. Thank you.
The Chair: We agree.
Are there any other questions or comments for the good of this meeting? If not, I want to thank all of you for your participation, the staff that are supporting us, the people who are behind us who are doing a fantastic job.
On this note, I wish you a great day.
(The committee adjourned.)