THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, March 3, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 11:34 a.m. [ET] to study the Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022.
Senator Éric Forest(Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Honourable senators, before we begin, I’d like to remind senators and witnesses to keep their microphones muted at all times, unless recognized by name by the chair.
Should any technical challenges arise, particularly with interpretation, please signal this to the chair or the clerk, and we will work to resolve the issue. If you experience other technical challenges, please contact the ISD Service Desk with the technical assistance number provided.
The use of online platforms does not guarantee speech privacy or that eavesdropping won’t be conducted. As such, while conducting committee meetings, all participants should be aware of such limitations and restrict the possible disclosure of sensitive, private and privileged Senate information.
Participants should know to be in a private area and to be mindful of their surroundings. With that, we will now begin the official portion of our meeting as per the order of reference we received from the Senate of Canada.
My name is Éric Forest. I am a senator from Quebec, and I am the deputy chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. I would like to introduce the members of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance who are participating in this meeting: Senator Dagenais, Senator Duncan, Senator Galvez, Senator Gignac, Senator Loffreda, Senator Marshall, Senator Pate, Senator Richards and Senator Wetston.
Welcome everyone, and welcome to all Canadians watching us on the Senate of Canada website. This morning, we are continuing our study of the Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022, which were referred to this committee on March 1, 2022, by the Senate of Canada.
We have the pleasure today of welcoming officials from Indigenous Services Canada: the Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Philippe Thompson; the Senior Assistant Deputy Minister of Regional Operations, Joanne Wilkinson; the Assistant Deputy Minister of the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Keith Conn; the Assistant Deputy Minister of the Child and Family Services Reform Sector, Catherine Lappe; the Director General of the Economic Policy Development Branch for Lands and Economic Development, Christopher Duschenes; and the Acting Director General of the Education Branch, Christine Harmston.
From Infrastructure Canada, we welcome the Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer of Corporate Services, Nathalie Bertrand; the Director General of the Homelessness Policy Directorate, Kris Johnson; the Director General of Resilient and Innovative Communities, Paul Loo; and the Director General of Alternative Finance, Mary Mckay.
Finally, from Global Affairs Canada, though not yet present, we will welcome the Assistant Deputy Minister of Corporate Planning, Finance and Information Technology and Chief Financial Officer, Anick Ouellette; the Director General of Financial Planning and Management, and Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Annie Boyer; the Director General of Innovative and Climate Finance Bureau, Sue Szabo; the Director General of Health and Nutrition, Joshua Tabah; and the Director of the Middle East Development Division, Sean Boyd.
Welcome to all these witnesses, to all of you, and thank you for accepting our invitation to appear before the Senate Committee on National Finance. We will hear brief opening remarks from Mr. Thompson, Ms. Bertrand, and then Ms. Ouellette.
Mr. Thompson, the floor is yours.
[English]
Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss 2021-22 Supplementary Estimates (C) for Indigenous Services Canada. I would like to begin by acknowledging that we come together on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people. With me today are Joanne Wilkinson, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations Sector; Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health; Catherine Lappe, Assistant Deputy Minister, Child and Family Services Reform Sector; Christopher Duschenes, Director General, Economic Policy Development, Land and Economic Development Sector; and Christine Harmston, Acting Director General, Education Branch Education and Social Development Programs and Partnership Sector.
[Translation]
Mr. Chair, we are deeply saddened by the discovery of potential new unmarked graves and burial sites near former residential schools. Through the current main estimates, the department will ensure the provision of mental health supports will help to address the trauma linked to these events, while we build towards a long-term strategy. These discoveries underline that we must move faster on the path of reconciliation with First Nations, Inuit and Métis Peoples.
I would also like to take a brief moment to provide you with an update on the status of the COVID-19 pandemic activity across Indigenous communities. The rate of reported active cases of COVID-19 among First Nations people living on-reserve was going down since mid-January 2021 and reached its lowest point during the first week of August. Since then, it started to rise again, especially after the arrival of Omicron in Canada.
As of March 1, there were 2,971 known active cases of COVID-19 for a total of 86,303 confirmed cases of which 82,669 have recovered and, sadly, 663 have lost their lives.
[English]
A total of 1,092,475 COVID vaccine doses have been administered in individuals living in First Nations, Inuit and territorial communities. Over 87% of individuals over 12 years old have received a second dose and over 25% have received a third dose. Over 49% of children aged 5 to 11 have received at least one dose.
The department continues to work closely with the Public Health Agency of Canada, other Government of Canada departments and provincial and territorial governments as well as Indigenous partners to protect the health and safety of Indigenous peoples. While we acknowledge the significant work that remains on the path toward reconciliation, it is important that we also recognize the steps forward that Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) has taken in providing quality services in these unprecedented times.
With regard to the COVID-19 pandemic, ISC demonstrated agility and innovation in providing urgent support to communities by leveraging policy flexibilities and eliminating burdensome processes and reporting requirements. For example, when funding for the Indigenous Community Support Fund was announced on March 11, 2020, funds were disbursed within 38 days and contribution agreements were completed at a significantly accelerated pace, with 93% of them signed or awaiting signature on March 31, 2020. This meant that critical support was provided to communities when they needed it. Meanwhile, the department secured contingency funding that enabled us to plan for multiple waves of the pandemic from a financial and operational perspective.
[Translation]
Working together, we have seen that the government’s investments since 2015 have yielded outcomes toward closing socio-economic gaps, supporting the right to self-determination, and promoting greater levels and health and prosperity. For example, 10,652 homes on-reserve have been built or repaired; 796 water and wastewater projects have been initiated; and 128 long-term drinking water advisories have been lifted.
ISC has also worked with partners toward the advancement of Indigenous-led health care delivery. For example, Indigenous-led approaches to mental wellness have led to improved access to front line care providers, increased Indigenous health leadership and continuity of care. In addition, since July 2016, more than 1.27 million products, services and supports were approved under Jordan’s Principle, including speech therapy, educational supports, medical equipment and mental health services.
At the same time, ISC has made significant progress on the co‑development of distinctions-based housing strategies, the affirmation of jurisdiction over child and family services, the provision of critical emergency management supports, and the establishment and continued growth of the new fiscal relationship with 117 First Nations currently in a 10-year grant.
[English]
The supplementary estimates will enable ISC to continue to work in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis partners to build on the progress we have made to ensure access to high‑quality, timely, culturally safe services while advancing self‑determination.
I will turn to the topic of today’s meeting, the presentation of ISC’s supplementary estimates. Those estimates are showing a net increase of $749.3 million, which will bring the total authorities for 2021-22 to over $21.8 billion. The $749.3 million is mainly composed of an increase of $65.7 million in operating expenditures and $700.4 million in grants and contributions.
I will share the main key initiatives of these estimates. There is $194 million for emergency response and recovery activities; $151.9 million for the continued implementation of Jordan’s Principle; $106.9 million to address a critical surge in demand for trauma-informed health and cultural supports related to the investigations and confirmations of unmarked burials at the sites of former Indian residential schools. There is $81.4 million of Budget 2021 investments, mainly intended to address anti‑Indigenous racism in health care; to adjust the new fiscal relationship grant for inflation and population growth; clean energy projects in First Nations, Inuit, and Métis communities; establish a Canada-wide early learning and child care system; implement the act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families; and implement the new Pathways to Safe Indigenous Communities Initiative to support Indigenous communities to develop more holistic community-based safety and wellness models.
There is also $62 million in interim funding for medical travel costs in Nunavut, and $54.5 million to support the First Nations Enhanced Education Infrastructure Fund.
[Translation]
Mr. Chair, while finishing the fight against the pandemic must remain our central focus, we will continue to collaborate with Indigenous partners by working together to address systemic inequities and disparities.
We will also continue to build on our successes to ensure that ISC as an organization is aligned with its mandate, including the transfer of services to Indigenous partners. I look forward to discussing any aspects of the main estimates with you and welcome your questions. Thank you very much.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you. We will now move on to Ms. Bertrand, who will be followed by Ms. Ouellette.
Nathalie Bertrand, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services, Infrastructure Canada: Good morning. Thank you, Deputy Chair.
I’m Nathalie Bertrand, Assistant Deputy Minister of Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer for the Office of Infrastructure Canada. I am joined today by Kris Johnson, Director General of the Homelessness Policy Directorate; Paul Loo, Director General, Resilient and Innovative Communities; and Mary McKay, Director General, Alternative Finance.
I’d like to thank you for this opportunity to speak with you today about Infrastructure Canada’s Supplementary Estimates (C), which were tabled in the House of Commons on February 19, 2022.
The department is requesting additional funding of $520.2 million in its 2021-22 Supplementary Estimates (C) to support program delivery, including legacy and new programs.
The majority of this increase is related to a realignment of funds between fiscal years that will allow us to meet existing obligations under the P3 Canada Fund and the Municipalities for Climate Innovation Program.
More specifically the department is requesting $349.3 million in funding for the P3 Canada Fund, following the dissolution of PPP Canada Inc, as well as $4.6 million toward the Municipalities for Climate Innovation Program.
[English]
In addition, funding of $120 million is being sought to support the extension of lease agreements for people experiencing homelessness in British Columbia during the COVID-19 pandemic. As well, we are seeking additional funding of $46.3 million to establish the Natural Infrastructure Fund to support natural and hybrid infrastructure projects that will improve well-being, mitigate the impact of climate change and help prevent costly natural events.
This funding will support initiatives to protect and conserve one quarter of Canada’s land and freshwater by 2025, protect species at risk and their habitat, advance reconciliation through Indigenous leadership of conservation efforts, and support natural infrastructure and increased access to nature.
Infrastructure Canada’s programs are structured in such a way that money flows from our department based on requests for reimbursement. Infrastructure Canada works in close collaboration with funding recipients and regularly updates profiles of existing federal infrastructure programs to better coordinate timelines for anticipated claims.
It is our priority to ensure that every dollar committed to infrastructure projects will continue to go toward strengthening the economy, combating climate change and promoting social equality.
The Supplementary Estimates (C) that have brought us here today are crucial to that effort. Thank you again for inviting us to speak with you today about the important work Infrastructure Canada is doing on behalf of Canadians. We would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Bertrand; Ms. Ouellette now has the floor.
Anick Ouellette, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Planning, Finance and Information Technology Branch, Global Affairs Canada: Good morning and thank you very much.
[English]
Mr. Chair, it is an honour to appear again before this committee today, to discuss my department’s Supplementary Estimates (C).
I would first like to acknowledge that I am speaking from the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people, and I am grateful to have the opportunity to be present in this territory.
I am joined today, as you mentioned, by Annie Boyer, Sue Szabo, Joshua Tabah and Sean Boyd.
[Translation]
Let me begin by outlining the scope of our mandate. Under the leadership of three ministers, Global Affairs Canada is responsible for fostering Canada’s international relations, developing and implementing its foreign policy and promoting international trade, supporting Canada’s commercial interests, being a leader in the delivery of humanitarian assistance worldwide, and providing consular assistance to the many Canadians who work, live and travel abroad.
In order to fulfill this mandate, Global Affairs Canada manages 178 missions in 110 countries in a changing and sometimes challenging global political and economic environment.
[English]
Through the Supplementary Estimates (C), Global Affairs Canada, known as GAC, has sought an increase of $827.4 million to its authorities, from $7.6 billion to $8.4 billion. This funding supports GAC’s work on priorities of the government and Canadians. The bulk of the funding relates to the following activities: $647.8 million is to help developing countries address the impact of climate change, part of the total of $5.3 billion pledged by the Prime Minister at the 2021 G7 Summit. This funding increases support to developing countries to help transition towards low‑carbon, climate-resilient economies.
[Translation]
A total of $89.7 million for the Middle East Strategy, allocated from the 2021 Budget, to extend Canada’s whole-of-government commitment to address instability in the Middle East for one year. These additional resources from the fiscal framework will support development assistance, security, stabilization efforts and diplomatic engagement with Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.
A total of $27.5 million, allocated from the 2021 Budget, to respond to the Venezuelan refugee and migrant crisis. Through targeted initiatives implemented by trusted partners, such as UN agencies and multilateral development banks, this investment will allow Canada to help reduce human suffering, irregular migration and security threats in the region, while improving the socio-economic integration of refugees and migrants in host communities.
[English]
There is $25 million for the Global Partnership for Education to improve education in the world’s poorest countries. This will contribute to meeting Canada’s commitment to invest at least 10% of its bilateral international development assistance envelope on education. Through this investment, Canada would contribute to getting 88 million more children into school across up to 87 countries around the world.
And $16.4 million is to support mission security abroad to mitigate risks to physical infrastructure, mission readiness and security of information.
In addition, $4.2 million allows the Trade Commissioner Service to ensure continued support to Canadian clean technology firms by helping them to expand beyond the Canadian market to access commercial opportunities around the world, as well as to improve access to climate finance globally.
[Translation]
Most of these initiatives are part of Canada’s Feminist International Assistance Policy, which has refocused our global development and humanitarian assistance efforts on promoting gender equality and the rights and empowerment of women and girls.
The department continues to measure our performance and report our results to Parliament and Canadians, while focusing on responsible financial management to fulfill our mandate and ensure the highest standards of service to Canadians, particularly those requiring consular assistance abroad.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to answering your questions on the supplementary estimates.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much for your presentations. We would like to keep the answers brief, because we have spent a lot of time on the presentations. We will now go to the question-and-answer portion of the meeting. I would like to advise you, honourable senators, that you have a maximum of five minutes for the first round. I ask that senators pose their questions in a direct manner and that the witnesses respond succinctly. The clerk will raise her hand when the time is up.
[English]
Senator Marshall: Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. My first questions are for the officials from Indigenous Services Canada. It’s relating to your Departmental Results Report that was released last month. I want to give you an example of some of the issues I have with the report.
I was very interested in social services, community services and also the Indigenous students education. For the social services, there are five performance indicators, but four have yet to be established. Then when you report on the results, there are actual results for 2021, which is the year the report relates to. There are no results available for any of the five performance indicators, so the report is almost meaningless to me.
You mentioned in your opening remarks that the budget for the department is almost $22 billion. It’s important for us to look at the results and the impact that $22 billion is having. What effect is it having?
For the social services area, there is no information available for the year in question. Then when we move into the Indigenous students and quality education, we have similar problems in that the targets aren’t being established and information is not available.
Could you just explain what the problem is? You’re putting out a report on performance indicators and results for the 2020-21 fiscal year, but everything is blank. There is no information there. Could you address that issue? I’m finding it extremely frustrating to review the report.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. As you know, my title is Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, so, of course, this is something that is very dear to my heart as well. This is unfortunately a conversation that we have been having at each of our committees.
Senator Marshall: Yes. I’ve asked similar questions in the past, yes.
Mr. Thompson: I agree. As you know, the department was established in 2019, and we had to develop a new departmental results framework under the policy of resolve at the time. We made a commitment when we developed the new departmental results framework that we would co-develop with our Indigenous partners the performance indicators and the targets in order to report on the performance.
Unfortunately, the pandemic has really slowed down the efforts of engagement. The communities were really focused on fighting the pandemic. We have made some adjustments to our timelines in terms of engagements in order to put in place that performance measurement framework and identify the right measures. We still have a number of measures that we are reporting against where we have a level of consensus with our Indigenous partners, but with regard to the other performance indicators, we are still in development with those.
We recently tabled the new departmental plan for the organization. You will see in that plan that we made some progress in our performance indicator framework, but we are also quite active. We are resuming activities as the pandemic, finally, hopefully will be behind us. We hope that is the case.
We will be very active in making sure that we resume that very important work, because it’s also extremely important to our partners to be able to see that we are meeting our outcomes, that we are having an impact with the funding that we are dedicating to all of our activities.
So I hope that in future committee meetings I will have better performance information to discuss. We are still using the narrative section of the departmental report to be able to report on performance and provide qualitative information. We are also using other indicators in the narrative section so that we can still demonstrate the performance. But with regard to that aspect of the plan where we have those performance indicators, it’s really that commitment to co-development that is very unique to our department that puts us in that situation, but totally acknowledge —
Senator Marshall: Right, but for the area of social services, which I’m very interested in because of my background, you’ve identified five performance indicators and there is no information available on any of them. And then you come before the committee, requesting substantial sums of money. We look back to see what you’ve achieved with the funding that was provided the previous year, and the information is not available. There are parliamentarians reading the reports, so they’re important.
Mr. Chair, could you put me on second round, please?
The Deputy Chair: Yes, with pleasure, Senator Marshall.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: My question is for Ms. Bertrand, on infrastructure.
I am a new senator and I am not very familiar with the governance that was associated with the P3 era, public-private partnerships. Now I understand that it is the department that manages them. Given that the private sector is in the picture, what are the rules of governance when infrastructure projects are brought forward in Canada?
Ms. Bertrand: Thank you very much. I will give the floor to my colleague, Mary McKay, who is the Director General of Alternative Finance.
Mary Mckay, Director General, Alternative Finance, Infrastructure Canada: Good morning. Thank you for the question.
The P3 Canada program, which has been running since 2008, was transferred to another department in 2018. This program was designed to create partnerships with the provinces and territories, and allowed private sector stakeholders, the Government of Canada and other governments to work together. It focused on certain types of projects, such as road construction and wastewater management.
Altogether, 25 projects were allocated $1.3 billion in funding at the outset of the program. These funds were used to finance 25 projects. There are three projects left to complete over a period of 10 years. For each of the projects, there was an agreement between the project proponent and the Government of Canada to provide a portion of the funds, approximately 25% for each project.
We now have the responsibility to maintain a relationship vis‑à‑vis each of the projects. All 25 projects, including their partnerships and objectives, are posted on our website. Does that answer your question?
Senator Gignac: I believe so. I take it, then, that the $349 million being requested for the P3 Canada Fund will go towards follow-up commitments that had already been made.
You said there were 25 projects, but you aren’t actually planning to launch any new P3 projects. Is that correct?
Ms. Mckay: Thank you for your question. No, not at this time. The program ended in 2018. In the case of the three outstanding projects, we advance funds every year if the project objectives have still not been met. It’s important that the department pay for projects that are completed. A portion of the funding is earmarked for the Tlicho all-season road in the Northwest Territories, and the funds were disbursed sooner than expected because the project was completed ahead of schedule, in November 2021. We are advancing some of the funding this year and will advance more for next year so we can continue to fund the two outstanding projects. A unique feature of the P3 Canada program is that we advance funds.
Senator Gignac: I will have questions for the second round, Mr. Deputy Chair.
Senator Dagenais: My first question is for Nathalie Bertrand.
In the supplementary estimates, $4.3 million has been allocated to the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec.
The item is labelled funding for the Regional Air Transportation Initiative (COVID-19). Can you tell us what that funding is for and how it relates to COVID-19?
Ms. Bertrand: Sorry, senator. I’m not sure which item you’re referring to exactly.
Senator Dagenais: You can take the time you need to check. Once you have the information, could you get back to us in writing? That would be appreciated.
The Deputy Chair: Ms. Bertrand, could you get back to us by Wednesday, March 9, so we can wrap up our report?
Ms. Bertrand: There’s a good chance I’ll have the answer by the end of the meeting.
Senator Dagenais: My second question is for Anick Ouellette.
In response to the situation in Ukraine, the Government of Canada has made, and is making, commitments to Ukraine and its allies.
Which budgetary expenditures will the funds come out of? Will you need new funding, or do you still have money in reserve?
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you for your question, senator.
We are indeed working tirelessly to support Canada in Ukraine. To answer your question specifically, I would say that some of the money will come out the expenditures currently before you, and other funds will be coming in the next few weeks. For example, Canada is providing a sovereign loan to Ukraine for $120 million, which is coming out of our existing budget. Canada is also providing $15 million in humanitarian assistance, and that money is also coming out of our current budget.
Just recently, the government announced a $10-million matching fund. That will have to come out of the fiscal framework. An additional $100 million in humanitarian assistance was announced recently. That will be available through the funding for crisis response, and we are in the process of accessing it. Furthermore, we have $35 million currently in our development budget that we are redirecting to development needs, in co-operation with our trusted partners.
Lastly, we are working with the Department of National Defence to set up a $25-million program specifically to provide defence equipment to the Ukrainians.
Senator Dagenais: Thank you for that information, Ms. Ouellette.
[English]
Senator Wetston: I think this question is probably for Ms. Bertrand. I may be incorrect, but I’ll ask it anyway.
I notice that in the supplementary estimates — and I understand these are supplementary — I’m focusing on the $4.6 million capacity building for climate change challenges for municipalities. I know that you’re well aware of the fact that the huge challenges towards electrification will be implemented by municipalities. When I look at this particular figure, I realize it’s a supplement, but I’m wondering how it was arrived at. Did you do this by way of some form of cost-benefit analysis to allow you to come at this figure? The reason I say that is if we’re moving away from high carbon to low carbon, electrification is the way that will occur in most municipalities, with buildings, with automobiles, et cetera.
Can you enlighten me a bit as to how that number was arrived at? I realize it’s supplementary, but it’s part of an overall bigger picture towards electrification.
Ms. Bertrand: Thank you for the question. The $4.6 million is in reference to a very particular program. This program is closing out this year. If you want details on this specific program, my colleague Paul Loo can give you additional details.
What you’re referring to with electrification may well be suited to new programs we have launched under transit and zero‑emission vehicles, but the $4.6 million is funding that is required to complete our obligations towards recipients. We are expecting claims this year and need to disburse that fund, so this is the closing out of a legacy program.
If you want details on the program, I can turn to my colleague Paul Loo.
Senator Wetston: Mr. Loo, do you have any further details?
Paul Loo, Director of General Resilient and Innovative Communities, Infrastructure Canada: I would just explain, as Ms. Bertrand was explaining, the Municipalities for Climate Innovation Program was aimed to support climate change preparedness. So it was really there to be put in place for planning and training in municipalities to have a larger awareness.
The program was announced back in Budget 2016 during the first phase of the Investing in Canada Plan, but what we’re looking at right now through this reprofile request is that due to some COVID impacts — so this may answer what Senator Dagenais was asking — delays did occur in 2019, so we were actually extending the program so that they could finalize the projects that were already in play.
As Ms. Bertrand explained before, our programs are such that the claims are not made until after the overall programs have been made and done, so we are just receiving some final claims from the program to be able to move forward to close out the program by March 2022. I believe that answers your question, senator.
Senator Wetston: Thank you so much.
Senator Duncan: Thank you to our witnesses who are here today and to my colleagues for allowing me to speak without my mask this morning.
My question is for Indigenous Services Canada. Yesterday, Health Canada asked for $3.5 million in their supplementary estimates to address anti-Indigenous racism in health care. Senator Gerba asked yesterday if there is also funding to address other elements of racism in health care delivery. I asked for the distribution of these funds throughout the country.
Today I’m seeing $18.4 million in Indigenous Services Canada to address anti-Indigenous racism in health care.
I would like to share with the committee members that at Whitehorse General Hospital, the largest hospital in the Yukon, operated by the Yukon Hospital Corporation, the staff at the hospital admitting and discharge desk will ask every patient upon presentation if they would like to identify as First Nations, Métis or Inuit. This will ensure that all persons who self-identify have access to the First Nations Health Programs.
The First Nations Health Programs also include, I might say, traditional foods and medicine and access to these services through the First Nations Health Programs. Every new hire at the Yukon Hospital Corporation must participate, as part of their new hire, in the Yukon First Nations 101 course offered through Yukon University.
I highlight this information as an example of a program that serves the community, and I’m wondering how this $18.4 million is being spent. Are we learning from successful programs that operate throughout the country? I’m mindful that health care is ultimately a provincial responsibility, so how is this money working with the provinces and the territories? If I could have that information, please.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. Indeed, the supplementary estimates include $18.4 million for anti-Indigenous racism in health care. It is part of an envelope of $111.8 million over three years. With regard to more details on the program, I will turn to my colleague Keith Conn to see if he can provide you with additional information on how that money will be used.
Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the question. I’m familiar with the Whitehorse hospital model. It is a great success, well received by Indigenous populations. It would be wonderful to replicate that across the nation.
The funding will provide supports for Indigenous health navigators and patient advocates, as well as working in the health system, including hospitals and health centres, as well as a cultural safety partnership fund. We’re in early days and looking forward to working with the province.
As an example, Alberta Health Services has been meeting with our regional officials to see how we can do some complementary work, recognizing that racism exists in a lot of the health system aspects in the province of Alberta. So that’s another interesting partnership that’s in development as we speak. We hope to hear more about that in the coming months and over the next year or so.
We’re in early days, as I said. We need to look at a longer‑term approach. We’re doing some initial investments at this point, but certainly through more dialogue and partnership developments, we’re looking to develop a longer‑term approach to institutionalize, in a positive way, a lot of the successes of the Whitehorse hospital in terms of serving the Indigenous populations.
Senator Duncan: Thank you for that information. I’m curious, if the program is still being rolled out and not developed yet, why you would need the $18 million in the supplementary estimates now if we don’t know how you predicted that need?
You mentioned Alberta. Could we have performance indicators or a report on how the negotiations and discussions are with all the other provinces and territories across the country so that we could include that?
Because the interpreters want us to use the Senate-issued headphones so they can properly interpret, I would request to have that response in writing and then I’ll save my question for the second round.
Mr. Conn: Thank you.
Senator Galvez: My question is for Infrastructure Canada and follows the question of my colleague Senator Wetston. I am also a little confused about this money that is given to municipalities and the purpose for it. I just want to understand, because you have also $1.2 billion given to the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. I would like to understand, is it for preparedness, was it for a program that was before? I heard that it’s another program that started in 2016, and because of delays we are putting it there now.
I’m asking this because for the reconstruction after the B.C. floods, the new tag is reaching $5 billion plus. How are we helping municipalities when these climate change extreme weather events happen? I understand it is money for preparedness, but how do we reconstruct and how does the budget work with respect to reconstruction? Can you please help me understand? Thank you.
Ms. Bertrand: I will turn to Paul again. He will be able to answer your question with respect to the program that you’re referring to, which I believe is the Municipalities for Climate Innovation Program, and then can tell you a bit about our DMAF program. I’ll turn to Paul.
Senator Galvez: I cannot hear him. I don’t want to delay. If they can send me the answer in written form, I would appreciate it.
My second question is for Indigenous Services Canada. You know, it’s true that our Indigenous peoples in the North and in the Arctic are suffering. It is sad that we are uncovering graves, that they still have water advisories and that they have their infrastructure destroyed because of thawing permafrost. But one important component if we want to transfer, as we’re saying, give them independence and having them assuming this work and this education. So can you explain to me how are we helping them in preparing them for all of these issues that have been mentioned?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. If I understood the question correctly, the senator would like to know what the department is doing in the field of education in order to prepare for service transfer. I will ask my colleague Christine Harmston to provide some details on all the great work that the department is doing in the field of education.
Christine Harmston, Acting Director General, Education Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the question, senator. As I understood, you were particularly asking about education in the North, and absolutely, it is a key priority of ours to be working with Inuit partners to identify needs and where the gaps are. I’m pleased to say that we do fund through the post-secondary education programming area. We support Inuit land claim organizations to identify supports with post-secondary education students, and there is also some work in the institution area as well.
As you likely know, in elementary and secondary education, that is a territorial jurisdictional lead, so there is no funding for kindergarten to Grade 12, but we are in very active discussions and ongoing dialogue with Inuit partners through the permanent bilateral mechanisms and the circumpolar PBM mechanisms to identify ongoing needs of children and youth who are in the kindergarten to Grade 12 areas so we can see how we can help facilitate addressing those needs through FPT, the federal-provincial-territorial mechanisms. So there is some direct programming coming out of the department in the post‑secondary education area.
We also work with other departments such as Canadian Heritage to help support with language retention and language training as well. Thank you.
Senator Pate: Thank you to all the witnesses for attending and providing information. My first question is for Indigenous Services Canada.
We’re hearing concerns from many that measures like the shelters, the $18 million allocated in the supplementary estimates and current approaches to income assistance such as the $16 million allocated in the supplementary estimates are too often actually keeping people in poverty, whereas initiatives like a guaranteed livable income or other kinds of supports could actually provide more stability and help move people out of poverty by providing pathways through there.
We seem to be seeing this kind of spending over and over in estimates and supplementary estimates, and I’m curious about two things. First, when Indigenous Services Canada was before the committee in December discussing Budget 2021, you talked about the fact that your work is guided by the calls for justice of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls inquiry. And one of the key calls for justice prioritized as urgent in the National Action Plan was the national guaranteed livable basic income call. Given that we keep seeing this spending, given that we are seeing the ongoing need and the attempts to catch up to, if you will, poverty issues, what measures are being taken to ensure that your work is guided by, in particular, this call for justice? And have you done a costing of what it would cost to actually implement a guaranteed livable income in First Nations communities and Indigenous communities as opposed to the patchwork that is being applied at this stage?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. This is a very good question. The supplementary estimates include some funding for income assistance. It’s a $16-million reprofile from funding from last year. This brings the authority for the organization this year to $1.2 billion. This is a very important program. I will turn again to my colleague Christine Harmston to provide you with more details on your specific question.
Ms. Harmston: Thank you very much. I very much appreciate that question, and we are also very seized with this issue.
As part of the response, we have been undertaking a two-year First Nations-led engagement process on the Income Assistance Program with a final engagement summary report being made available in 2021 to undertake actions following that engagement dialogue, and we’re committed to doing so.
The department is now in the early stages of working with the Assembly of First Nations and other First Nation partners in co‑developing a set of options for program reform with the aim of having a needs-based program by 2023-24. So we are absolutely looking to address reform of income assistance programming so that poverty alleviation can have real impact on the ground and, as you so rightly noted, that it doesn’t keep any ceiling on anyone’s lives in the poverty area.
I’m happy to provide more information in written form if you wish, and give updates on this co-development process moving forward. Thank you.
Senator Pate: That would be fantastic, thank you. As well, you could provide the cost comparisons in terms of current measures and a more fulsome approach going forward.
Do I have time for a second? If not, I’ll go on second round.
The Deputy Chair: Yes, Senator Pate.
Senator Pate: For Infrastructure Canada, I was curious looking at the amounts in terms of assistance internationally. I was curious as to how Global Affairs determine whether a proposed project integrates gender equality considerations. What kinds of mechanisms are you using to assess that beyond the GBA+ analysis, and for any given project, what are some examples of the features you look for in determining whether gender equality has been adequately integrated?
Ms. Bertrand: I have a point of clarification, chair. She mentioned international assistance and infrastructure projects. I’m not sure if the question is directed to me or to Anick Ouellette.
Senator Pate: Both. That would be great. Thank you.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, senator, for the question.
Indeed, through the feminist policy on international assistance, we do have a principle around gender equality. In fact, the programming is made to attain certain targets. We have a commitment to have at least 15% of our bilateral programming toward gender equality.
Unfortunately, I don’t have a specific example in front of me, but I’ll be happy to provide that in writing.
Senator Pate: Could you also provide, please, what projects would be funded under the allocation? In the supplementary estimates, you indicate that with climate finance for developing countries, at least 80% of those projects integrate gender equality consideration.
Ms. Ouellette: Yes, indeed. Maybe I can turn to my colleague Sue Szabo, who is responsible for the climate change initiative. She can elaborate on the aspect of gender equality.
Sue Szabo, Director General, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you, senator, for the question. For us, it’s really fundamental to try to include gender equality in all of the climate finance that we’re undertaking. We recognize that women and girls are more disadvantaged by the effects of climate but also that they have a tremendous role to play as change agents, helping to make decisions.
The nature of that participation and the integration of gender equality really depend on the nature of the project itself. For example, one of the projects we often speak about is in Haiti, where we’re actually trying to create a market locally for clean cookstoves. Why is this important? Because it means less going to forests and having to bring back fuel wood. It changes the nature of the pollution inside the house. But it’s also trying to integrate gender equality by making women themselves the ones who are actually selling the cookstoves to create a small local market and to build women’s entrepreneurship. There is a benefit for the climate, environment, indoor air pollution and for entrepreneurship.
You might know that for our climate finance, a large part of what we provide is also through loans. This is important for trying to get the private sector involved in creating a low-carbon economy. Here we use different kinds of incentives to try to build in gender equality. For example, we build in interest rate incentives. If a company has started to include women in non-traditional sectors such as renewables, or if they’ve started to include other measures that try to integrate gender equality into their own company, then they might get a slight rebate on the interest rates.
I give these two examples because they’re at different extremes, but they show some of the different mechanisms we use — unique to each project — to integrate gender equality.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Senator, you’re out of time. I can put you down for the second round.
[English]
Senator Loffreda: My question is for Global Affairs Canada, and it’s on mission security. Global Affairs is seeking $14.6 million to support mission security abroad to mitigate risks to physical infrastructure, mission readiness and security of information. In your departmental plan for 2021-22, it’s mentioned that the year-over-year increase in the number of full‑time equivalents is attributed to various initiatives, including this one specifically.
Considering the world we live in today, I don’t doubt that we need further investments in our information systems and more staff to protect ourselves from data breaches. We know that Global Affairs is not immune to cyberattacks. Can you provide our committee with information on the work your department is doing to protect our information systems and data both here and abroad? In your opinion, does the government need to take this matter more seriously and perhaps provide more funding or support to ensure that the integrity and security of our systems are safe? Thank you.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, senator, for the question. Yes, you are right. The department operates in a complex global network, which is often targeted by cyber threats. So we work with security partners to quickly respond to security events and protect our information. We take the protection of our information and assets very seriously and regularly make investments to bolster our cybersecurity capability and posture.
In terms of the recent cyber incident that started in mid‑January, again, we are working with lead security agencies such as the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, Communications Security Establishment, Shared Services Canada and Treasury Board Secretariat to resolve the impact of the current cyber incident.
As well, we continue to monitor this particular situation, and we have implemented key measures to protect our information. Of course, we will continue to invest in cybersecurity activities to ensure that our information is protected. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Loffreda: Mr. Chair, do I have time for a second question?
The Deputy Chair: Yes. The interpreters are having trouble making out what those without a headset are saying. If you don’t have a headset, please speak slower. Senator Loffreda, you have time for one more question.
[English]
Senator Loffreda: My next question is for Infrastructure Canada, and it’s on homelessness in British Columbia. I would like to explore the $120 million that is being asked by Infrastructure Canada to support British Columbia’s work in housing people experiencing homelessness.
The estimates document says that the Homelessness Policy Directorate was transferred from Employment and Social Development Canada to the Office of Infrastructure Canada. I understand that this transfer took place in October. Can you explain the rationale behind this decision? Why the change in department? Also, it would be great if you could provide us with an update on federal funding for homelessness in Quebec. Are funds to address this very important issue evenly distributed across the country?
Finally, I wonder if you could provide us with a complete picture of your department’s homelessness initiatives. Your departmental plan for 2022-23 that we received just yesterday mentions that your program inventory includes three new programs as part of the homelessness portfolio. I hope there is no duplication and that this issue is being managed as efficiently as possible.
Ms. Bertrand: Thank you for the question. I will turn the question over to my colleague Kris Johnson who used to be with Employment and Social Development Canada and has transferred over to Infrastructure Canada along with his entire directorate.
Kris Johnson, Director General, Homelessness Policy Directorate, Infrastructure Canada: Thank you for the question. Yes, we did recently move from Employment and Social Development Canada to Infrastructure Canada. There are a lot of links between homelessness and housing, which is primarily managed by Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, and between issues of housing and infrastructure. So this is a strategic opportunity to bring a more horizontal focus to the very complex issues that underlie homelessness here in Canada.
The $120 million specifically mentioned in Supplementary Estimates (C) for B.C. is a one-time payment to reimburse some of the costs incurred to keep people safe in the pandemic, provide spaces, overflow shelters, allow shelters to [Technical difficulties] —
The Reaching Home program started as a $2.2 billion program, but recognizing the unique risks the pandemic has posed to those experiencing homelessness, we have already invested an additional approximately $700 million across the country over the past two years. Last year’s budget announced another $567 million. Significant new funding is going in across the country. I assure you, to be concise, there is no duplication. All that existed in ESDC is now moving over to Infrastructure.
[Translation]
Senator Loffreda: Do I have time for another question? No?
The Deputy Chair: It will have to wait until the second round.
[English]
Senator Loffreda: I would like to address — and if I don’t get the chance — Indigenous-led businesses, if they can give us an update in writing if I don’t get the chance to ask the question that’s very important. But if I do get it, thank you.
Senator Marshall: My question is for Infrastructure Canada. I’m trying to determine if you’ve requested funding for all of your budget initiatives. Would you be able to provide it to the clerk in writing? I wanted a list of all of your 2021 budget initiatives and which ones have been funded in Supplementary Estimates (A), (B) or (C). This is the last supply bill. I would like to see what projects have not been funded this year so we can look at them for next year, if you could do that.
For Global Affairs and the $647 million for the developing countries to help address the impact of climate change, could you provide us with a list of countries and how much is allocated to each country? I want to see how that $647 million is allocated. If I can get that in writing, that would be very much appreciated.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: I was going to ask the very same question as Senator Loffreda, about cyberattacks and the situation in Ukraine, so my fellow senators can have my time.
The Deputy Chair: How generous of you. Thank you.
[English]
Senator Pate: Following up on the question about the development work being done and the feminist analysis, I was very pleased to hear that. I’m curious whether the department has looked at all at some of the work being done by other countries in places like Uganda where they’ve used a basic income guarantee being allocated to the women in families and the ways in which — unlike the loan situation — they are able to then invest those resources into entrepreneurial small businesses of the sort that you talk about that you’ve been supporting and whether you’ve looked at that. If you have not, I would encourage you to do so. I’m curious whether you are familiar with some of those initiatives.
Ms. Ouellette: Yes. Thank you, senator, for your question. Again, I will turn to my colleague Sue Szabo, who will be able to provide an answer. Thank you.
Ms. Szabo: Thank you for those questions. Perhaps if I start with the question on looking at other donors in other countries. We absolutely do keep track of that because we are always looking for good practices. In fact, many of the times, when we work in multilateral organizations, we are exchanging that sort of information. The key element for us in terms of our climate finance is that we need to meet certain internationally agreed markers that this money is going toward climate. That is for the good reason that the global community wants to make sure we are not double counting our development money and our international climate money. There are some kinds of activities which are themselves of great merit, but if they don’t also address climate, we don’t finance them with our climate funding.
In terms of the list of countries with the $647 million, I would say we can certainly look at providing that grosso modo. Some of the projects themselves actually address more than one country, so often we are keeping our statistics by region so that we can keep track of that. This is also part of a longer process of the five-year commitment where we will be looking at an appropriate regional distribution over the entire five-year commitment and, of course, year by year.
Senator Pate: Thank you very much. I look forward to receiving that information too.
I have a question for Global Affairs. I’m curious; have the recommendations made in the Global Affairs Canada’s 2020 evaluation of its contribution to the global strategy, the Middle East strategy in particular, been implemented? In respect of that, what challenges do you see that remain with respect to Global Affairs Canada’s implement of Canada’s Middle East strategy?
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, senator, for the question. In particular for the Middle East strategy, I will turn over to my colleague Sean Boyd, who will be able to answer you.
Sean Boyd, Director, Middle East Development Division, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you, senator. With respect to your question about the evaluation of the Middle East strategy, we are continually engaged in addressing issues that were raised through a variety of our programming mechanisms in terms of looking at the efficiency, the effectiveness of our programming and to ensure that we are developing the synergies involved so that there is a sound link between what we’re doing through our international assistance programming and the diplomatic engagement that we are undertaking to advance the objectives that Canada is trying to seek in the region. It is an ongoing process.
The challenge that we have, as you raised, is that this is a very unstable region. So therefore, we’re constantly having to adjust, not the least of which has been the significant impact of COVID on the region and some of the impacts that has had.
In terms of setting developments backwards, with regard to access, children that have been shut out of schools because schools have been closed and some of the progress that we were making with respect to advancing women’s rights because, as we’ve noted, women and girls have borne a significant or disproportionate share of some of the negative impacts from things like the COVID pandemic.
Senator Duncan: I would like to follow up again with Indigenous Services. I would expect this answer in writing. Additional funding is requested to support medical transportation in Nunavut, $62 million. Medical transportation is considered a non‑insured health benefit. I would like to ask if the department would please indicate in writing the other pressures on the Non‑Insured Health Benefits budget and the link between the Non‑Insured Health Benefits paid under Indigenous Services and the Pharmacare initiative review that’s under way in Health Canada.
I would like to see the link between the two because there is substantial crossover in the provision of Pharmacare-related services under Non‑Insured Health Benefits and the study of a national Pharmacare program under Health Canada. Could I please have that answer in writing?
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Please have a written response to us by March 9.
[English]
Senator Loffreda: As mentioned, my question is for Indigenous-led businesses. You may recall the last time you were here I asked about the Aboriginal Entrepreneurship Program. I would like to further explore this issue of Indigenous‑led businesses.
In last year’s departmental plan, you acknowledged that the pandemic has shifted the allocation of resources away from regular business supports toward a crisis management emphasis on keeping small- and medium-sized Indigenous businesses afloat. Unfortunately, this prevented you from lending more money for business creation or expansion. However, I am happy to read in your most recent plan that the department did deliver over 6,900 loans to some 3,600 businesses.
As I often say, manage activities, you get activities; manage results, you get results. And measurement improves results. How are you keeping track of how many Indigenous-led businesses there are in Canada? Does your department have a registry of Indigenous-led businesses? What is your assessment of the situation on the ground in terms of bankruptcies or businesses that are seriously struggling because of the pandemic? Are the trends comparable between the non-Indigenous and the Indigenous-led businesses?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. I’m very pleased that we have the opportunity to discuss Indigenous economic development today. I will turn to my colleague Christopher Duschenes to answer your question.
Christopher Duschenes, Director General, Economic Policy Development Branch, Lands and Economic Development, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the very good question. I have one quick clarification. The department actually does not issue loans. We work in partnership with the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association who then work with 54 small Indigenous banks, the Aboriginal financial institutions, as well as working with the Métis capital corporations. They lend their loan capital to entrepreneurs. Indigenous Services provides equity or a small grant in order for entrepreneurs to leverage the loans directly from the Métis capital corporations and the Aboriginal financial institutions. The loans don’t come directly from us.
I’m glad that you saw how many businesses were supported during COVID. We’re working closely with the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association and the Métis capital corporations to keep track of those businesses that have begun to repay their loans and those that may be struggling. It is on the whole very good news that these supports were very well received. As you realize, the program sunsetted at the end of June, so we’re only in the early stages of repayment. We are very pleased that due to a very well-managed program by NACCA and the AFIs and the Métis capital corporations, it looks as though there are very few Indigenous-owned businesses that will shutter or that have gone under.
Historically, it is worth noting that the rate of default on loans issued by the Aboriginal financial institutions and the Métis capital corporations is significantly lower than the rate of default of loans through conventional banks. The history of repayment and very strong relationships between the lenders and the borrowers in the Indigenous economic development world has contributed significantly to that.
In terms of a registry, the Métis capital corporations and the Aboriginal financial institutions are the ones that choose their clients and partners. However, that being said, there is a registry of Indigenous businesses that is being developed and continuously improved related to the federal commitment to have 5% of federal procurement go to Indigenous businesses. We can provide you with supplementary information related to that registry if you’re interested. Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: Yes, thank you very much. Do provide it.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Anick Ouellette. I see that transfers between departments and agencies account for a significant portion of Global Affairs Canada’s estimates, nearly a billion dollars. It almost seems as though you are lumping together requests for other departments. It’s what I might call creative accounting.
Can you explain why the requests are so high for a single department’s supplementary estimates?
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you for your question, senator.
You’re right that our estimates include quite a few transfers to other departments. The reason is that we frequently carry out cross-cutting initiatives, so sometimes one department secures the funding from the fiscal framework and we then see to the transfer amongst ourselves.
You may have noticed that, from one set of estimates to the next, interdepartmental transfers for operations at missions are always included. The funding is calculated a year in advance, with the per-item cost taken into account. Subsequently, adjustments are needed because of fluctuations that affect the items.
The estimates also include initiatives with the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat to improve the financial function and internal oversight function, among other things. That’s also the case with the National Research Council of Canada because, there again, transfers are carried out vis‑à‑vis research institutions and the research can then be shared.
There is no doubt that, overall, significant amounts of funding are being sought through Supplementary Estimates (C) for 2021-22. As I said in my opening statement, we are talking about nearly $800 million. A large chunk of that has to do with climate change and will go towards supporting developing countries to help them adapt and become climate-resilient. As mentioned earlier, that also takes into account the Middle East strategy, with $85 million in funding, as well as various crises throughout the world, including in Venezuela. That’s why the figure is so high.
Senator Dagenais: Thank you, Ms. Ouellette.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much. Since we’ve covered everything on the agenda, that brings us to the end of today’s meeting. I want to remind the witnesses that they promised to get back to the committee with their written answers by March 9. Since you made the promise in public, we are confident that you will keep it and that we will hear back from you by March 9. The information will help us draft our report.
Before we conclude, I want to inform the senators that the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance will not be meeting during the upcoming break weeks. The steering committee will decide shortly as to what the committee will be doing upon its return, either holding further meetings on Supplementary Estimates (C) for 2021-22 or moving right into consideration of the draft report. The clerk will let the committee members know in due course. Thank you all.
(The committee adjourned.)