THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, April 26, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 9:32 a.m. [ET] to study the Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023.
Senator Percy Mockler (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, thank you very much for your participation again, and thank you to the clerk and her team for preparing this outstanding meeting this morning. Thank you very much for the leadership you are providing with the organization of the Finance Committee.
I would like to remind senators and witnesses — and witnesses, thank you — to please keep your microphones muted at all times unless recognized by name by the chair.
Should any technical challenges arise, particularly in relation to interpretation, please signal this to the chair or the clerk and we will work to resolve the issue. If you experience other technical challenges, please contact the ISD service desk at the technical assistance number provided.
[Translation]
Honourable senators, the use of online platforms does not guarantee speech privacy or that eavesdropping won’t be conducted. As such, while conducting committee meetings, all participants should be aware of such limitations and restrict the possible disclosure of sensitive, private and privileged Senate information.
[English]
Participants should know to do so in a private area and to be mindful of their surroundings.
Honourable senators, we will now begin with the official portion of our meeting.
My name is Percy Mockler, senator from New Brunswick and Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. Now I would like to introduce the members of the committee who are participating in this meeting: Senator Boehm, Senator Dagenais, Senator Duncan, Senator Forest, Senator Galvez, Senator Gerba, Senator Gignac, Senator Loffreda, Senator Marshall, Senator Pate and Senator Richards.
I wish to welcome all of the viewers across Canada who may be watching us on the Senate of Canada website.
Honourable senators, this morning we are continuing our study on the Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023, which was referred to us, the Finance Committee, on March 3, 2022, by the Senate of Canada.
Today, we have the pleasure of welcoming officials from three different departments: Indigenous Services Canada, Public Health Agency of Canada and Employment and Social Development Canada.
Welcome to all of you and thank you for accepting our invitation to appear in front of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance.
I understand that Philippe Thompson, Karen Robertson and Martin Krumins will deliver opening remarks on behalf of their respective departments. Thank you very much for being here this morning, and also I know that you have support staff and public servants who will assist.
Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you Mr. Chair and honourable senators for the invitation to discuss the 2022-23 Main Estimates for Indigenous Services Canada. I would like to begin by acknowledging that we come together on the unceded, traditional territory of the Algonquin people. With me today are: Kelley Blanchette, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development; Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations; Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch; Ian Kenney, Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch; and James Sutherland, Director General, Operationalization Branch, Child and Family Services Reform.
[Translation]
I would like to take a brief moment to provide you with an update on the status of the COVID-19 pandemic activity across Indigenous communities. The rate of reported active cases of COVID-19 among First Nations people living on-reserve had been going down since mid-January 2021 and had reached its lowest point during the first week of August. Since then, it has started to rise again, especially after the arrival of Omicron in Canada. As of April 19, there were 2,379 known active cases of COVID-19, for a total of 102,145 confirmed cases, with 99,067 people having recovered and, sadly, 699 having lost their lives. As of April 12, a total of 687 communities had access to vaccine clinics, and a total of 1,155,605 COVID vaccine doses had been administered to individuals living in First Nations, Inuit and territorial communities. Over 89% of individuals aged 12 plus have received a second dose and over 37% have received a third dose. Over 52% of children aged 5 to 11 have received at least one dose.
[English]
We will continue to work closely with the Public Health Agency of Canada, other government departments and provincial and territorial governments as well as Indigenous partners to protect the health and safety of First Nations, Inuit and Métis people.
I will now turn to the topic of today’s meeting.
For 2022-23, Indigenous Services Canada’s, or ISC’s, Main Estimates are $39.6 billion. It should be noted that the Main Estimates are the first step in the fiscal cycle and do not include additional approvals of funding that stem from Budget 2022. Funding for additional approvals will be assessed through future estimates.
[Translation]
In 2022-23, in partnership with Indigenous peoples, the department will focus on the following four priority areas. The first is advancing health, which includes working with Indigenous leadership to support response to and recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic, implementation of a distinctions-based Indigenous mental wellness strategy, and continued work towards the elimination of anti-Indigenous racism in the health care system and advancing Joyce’s principle.
The second priority area is supporting families, specifically in the areas of child and family services, education and income as they are important interrelated elements that enable well-being. This includes the ongoing implementation of the Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families, which supports families, and the work to reform the system to be community-directed, child-centered and focused on prevention.
[English]
The third priority is helping build sustainable communities, from safe drinking water and housing to building and renovating school facilities and enabling community infrastructure. ISC will work to ensure important sustainable infrastructure is in place to support Indigenous communities and their people, including eliminating all remaining long-term drinking water advisories on reserve by identifying causes, investing in appropriate infrastructure and preventing short-term advisories from becoming long term.
The final priority area is supporting Indigenous communities in self-determination, which includes support for governance capacity, ensuring accessibility for Indigenous business, implementing a funding escalator for the new fiscal relationship grant as announced in Budget 2021 and expanding eligibility to First Nation communities.
[Translation]
The 2022-23 Main Estimates reflect a net increase of approximately $26.1 billion, which is a 193% increase over the previous fiscal year’s Main Estimates. The major changes, which are aligned with the four priority areas, are as follows. There is an increase of $22 billion for out-of-court settlements to advance Canada’s overall commitment to reconciliation and a net increase of $1.2 billion for infrastructure in Indigenous communities.
[English]
There is also an increase of $646.8 million for First Nations Child and Family Services; a net increase of $536.7 million for noninsured health benefits; and a net increase of $377.6 million for continued implementation of Jordan’s principle. We also have a net increase of $350.3 million for elementary and secondary education, and a net increase of $343.9 million related to income assistance.
[Translation]
Mr. Chair, these Main Estimates will enable us to continue to collaborate with Indigenous partners to address systemic inequities and disparities, and to support the transfer of services to Indigenous partners.
[English]
I look forward to discussing any aspect of these estimates with you and welcome your questions regarding my presentation. Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Thompson.
[Translation]
Karen Robertson, Chief Financial Officer and Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development Canada: Members of the committee, I am pleased to appear before you in my capacity as chief financial officer for Employment and Social Development Canada, or ESDC. It’s an honour to be here with you today. I’m accompanied by a number of my departmental colleagues. They will help me provide additional details and perspective on the items that are included in the department’s Main Estimates.
The department delivers a range of programs and services that affect Canadians throughout their lives. For example, the department provides seniors with basic income security, supports workers and helps students finance their post-secondary education.
Through the Labour Program, we also have the mandate to maintain a strong, productive, healthy and competitive workplace within the federal jurisdiction. Service Canada delivers ESDC’s many programs to citizens, as well as other Government of Canada programs and services.
Allow me to present to the committee an overview of ESDC’s portion of the 2022-23 Main Estimates tabled on March 1, 2022.
[English]
The 2022-23 Main Estimates for ESDC amount to $87.4 billion, an increase of approximately $5 billion when compared to the 2021-22 Main Estimates. Of this, close to 87% of planned budgetary expenditures will directly benefit Canadians through the Old Age Security programs and other statutory transfer payment programs.
In these Main Estimates, funding increases are mainly attributed to voted grants and contributions and statutory items. The total Vote 5 grants and contributions presented in the 2022-23 Main Estimates is $10.3 billion, an increase of $7.2 billion from the 2021-22 Main Estimates.
The increase of $7.2 billion is mostly explained by new and additional investments in the Early Learning and Child Care program, totalling $5.2 billion, which seeks to extend existing agreements and to build a Canada-wide early learning and child care system in partnership with provincial, territorial and Indigenous partners. This will ensure that all families have access to high-quality, affordable, flexible and inclusive early learning and child care no matter where they live.
Also contributing to the Vote 5 increase are investments to programs such as the Community Services Recovery Fund, the Sectoral Workforce Solutions Program and the Apprenticeship Service, which seek to support those most affected by the pandemic and help drive a strong recovery. There is also funding to provide a one-time, non-taxable payment to alleviate the financial hardship of Guaranteed Income Supplement and Allowance recipients who received pandemic benefits in 2020.
Statutory programs, such as the Old Age Security pension and the Guaranteed Income Supplement, have an increase of $6 billion resulting from expected increases to the number of OAS pensioners and to the average monthly amounts paid, particularly resulting from the Budget 2021 announcement to increase by 10% the monthly OAS pension for seniors 75 and over as of July 2022, as well as from the indexation of benefits.
The Canada Student Financial Assistance Program and Canada Apprentice Loan program also saw increases of $1.6 billion. This is mostly due to increases in the Canada Student Grant amounts for low- and middle-income students, students with disabilities as well as students with dependents. This increase is a direct result of the extension of the temporary COVID-19 measure doubling all grant amounts until July 31, 2023.
The above voted grants and contributions and statutory item increases are offset by a decrease, totalling $9.9 billion, for three statutory temporary recovery benefits: First, the Canada Recovery Benefit, which ended October 23, 2021; second, the Canada Recovery Caregiving Benefit; and third, the Canada Recovery Sickness Benefit.
You will note that Employment Insurance and Canada Pension Plan benefits and administrative costs are excluded from the department’s Main Estimates. The EI Operating Account and the CPP are two specified purpose accounts. The EI Operating Account is included in the consolidated financial reporting of the Government of Canada. The CPP is not incorporated into the government’s financial statements since it is under joint control of the federal government and the participating provinces and territories. EI and CPP are reflected in the Departmental Plan, which was tabled on March 2, 2022.
[Translation]
I hope this overview has given you a better understanding of the Main Estimates for our department. My colleagues and I would be pleased to answer your questions. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Robertson.
Martin Krumins, Vice-President and Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Management Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada:
Honourable senators, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you about the 2022-23 Main Estimates for the Public Health Agency of Canada.
The agency continues to play a crucial role in the Government of Canada’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and these Main Estimates reflect that.
Overall, the 2022-23 Main Estimates seek $8.5 billion in authorities, a decrease of $256 million compared to 2021-22. I will take a few minutes to go over the highlights of the funding we are requesting in these estimates.
The agency is seeking $5.5 billion for the procurement of COVID-19 boosters and additional influenza vaccines. Of this amount, $2.5 billion is new funding while $3 billion is reprofiled from other fiscal years. This funding will help with current public health needs related to boosters. It will also include funding for second-generation and pediatric vaccines as well as the associated logistical costs.
The agency is also seeking $1.05 billion to procure lifesaving COVID-19 therapeutics and treatments, and associated logistical and operational costs. Additionally, $1 billion of this funding was announced as part of last December’s Economic and Fiscal Update 2021, while $50 million is being reprofiled from 2021-22. These new treatments, including antiviral drugs, will help protect Canadians from COVID-19 hospitalization and will help to save lives. New antiviral COVID-19 therapies will help make outpatient treatment much easier and we expect they will be in high demand by health care practitioners and their patients.
The funding we are seeking through these estimates also includes $382 million to allow for surge capacity for the agency. This funding will allow the agency to hire and retain key personnel and stabilize critical resources and operations to maintain a sustained response to the COVID-19 pandemic.
These Main Estimates would provide an additional $346 million for the agency to maintain its border measures. This includes the agency’s testing surveillance regime that aims to minimize the further spread of COVID-19 and variants in Canada to protect Canadians and the health care system. Included in this amount is $68.4 million for the Safe Voluntary Isolation Sites program. This will help give people who have COVID-19 — or those who have been exposed to it — access to safe isolation accommodations to keep themselves, their families and their communities safe.
The agency is also requesting funding to help support the mental health of Canadians. As the pandemic continues to impact the daily lives of Canadians, the agency is seeking $82 million to support new ways of delivering programming to reach populations in need of support for mental wellness. This funding will help support those most affected by the COVID-19 pandemic by addressing post-traumatic stress disorder and trauma, developing indicators to monitor the impact of national mental health service standards and setting up data collection and data infrastructure for standards reporting.
In addition, the agency is seeking $55.6 million for serosurveillance and research programs through these Main Estimates. The funding will continue to support the activities of the Canadian COVID-19 Immunity Task Force. The funding will also support the implementation of serological studies that will determine the extent of infection in the Canadian population. This will help us to better understand potential immunity in specific high-risk subgroups. It will also help us deliver a clear and comprehensive pan-Canadian serosurveillance strategy.
The funding initiatives that I just mentioned are complemented by a number of other critical measures that will support the agency’s COVID-19 response. This includes funding for the Indigenous Early Learning and Child Care Framework, improved COVID-19 testing support for northern remote and isolated Indigenous communities and personal protective equipment. This is in addition to the agency’s regular ongoing operations.
Thank you again for this opportunity to speak about the work of the Public Health Agency of Canada. My colleagues and I will be pleased to answer any of your questions.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Krumins. Thank you to all the witnesses. We will now proceed to questions. To the senators, you will have a maximum of six minutes each in the first round, and going into the second round we will have three minutes each for the second round.
Therefore, please ask your questions directly. To the witnesses, please respond concisely. The clerk will make a hand signal to show that time is over.
I would also like to ask that the witnesses introduce themselves and their department before speaking for the first time to the committee.
Senator Marshall: My first question is for Indigenous Services Canada. Could you give us some additional information about the $20.4 billion under health and social services? That’s where the significant increase is. I did notice that $28 billion was in your departmental plan but I couldn’t find any reference as to what the money will be used for. I didn’t see any changes in the performance indicators. So could someone from Indigenous Services Canada please give us some information on that item?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. The net increase that you see of $22 billion in our Vote 1 — Operating Expenditures is with regard to the compensation in the action against the government for the Child and Family Services. The government has reached an agreement in principle to resolve that litigation. We are working closely with our partners right now to come up with a final agreement. The funding has been provided to the department to make sure that if we reach an agreement we are in a position to provide timely payments following the agreement. But at the moment the negotiations are continuing, so the funding will remain in our appropriation unless we reach an agreement with the parties.
Senator Marshall: How much of the $20.4 billion would be for that purpose? It wouldn’t be the entire amount, would it?
Mr. Thompson: It depends on the agreement that will be achieved. We have some other litigations as well within the department, but at this point the negotiations are still continuing. We expect to have sufficient funding to resolve the situation if we reach an agreement.
Senator Marshall: Can you put a dollar amount on the funding for that purpose?
Mr. Thompson: At the moment, the funding that we have in our appropriation is a little more than $20 billion, about $22 billion. But it really depends on what the agreement will be to determine the final amount that will be paid.
Senator Marshall: Okay. There were no performance indicators in your departmental plan and I don’t think there was any reference to that item in your departmental plan. Did I miss something or is it not referenced at all, just the dollar amount?
Mr. Thompson: You are correct. There are no direct performance indicators associated with that funding because this is a litigation case. That being said, that funding is associated with the Child and Family Services program. Under the Child and Family Services program section of the departmental plan, we do have performance indicators, but they wouldn’t be directly related to a compensation framework. They would be related to the performance of the program in terms of the protection and prevention services that are being provided to communities.
Senator Marshall: Okay, so not the $20 billion. Would you know at this stage who is going to receive the money? Would it be directly to individuals or would it be to organizations to disburse the funding?
Mr. Thompson: The intent is that the funding for compensation would go to individuals, but once there is an agreement in place the funding would be put in the trust, but it wouldn’t be the department directly. There would be an organization that is responsible for identifying who is eligible for compensation and then distributing the money. But yes, it would be payments to individuals.
Senator Marshall: Thank you very much. My next question is for the three organizations here. This relates to a new budget initiative. One of you in your opening remarks mentioned that, for the new initiatives for this year’s budget, there is nothing in the Main Estimates but we would expect to see it in Supplementary Estimates (A), Supplementary Estimates (B) and Supplementary Estimates (C) and maybe future years. In last year’s budget, there was $49 billion provided for new budget initiatives but only $36 billion showed up in Supplementary Estimates (A), (B) and (C). There is still $13 billion out there that I would expect to see during this fiscal year.
What I would like — you can provide it in writing, I don’t need you to speak to it right now — is if you could provide us with a list of your new budget initiatives in 2021 that were to be funded in 2021-22 but didn’t get funded. I’m trying to find out what initiatives didn’t get funded during the last fiscal year. Could you indicate which ones were funded in Supplementary Estimates (A), which were funded in Supplementary Estimates (B) and what is the Supplementary Estimates (C), and then which ones have yet to be funded and indicate whether there are any 2020-21 budget initiatives that the funding that appears in your Main Estimates this year?
Do I have any more time, Mr. Chair?
The Chair: Yes, for another question, Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall: Thank you. That is excellent.
This would be for Employment and Social Development Canada.
You mentioned the child care strategy in your opening remarks. Could you give us some information regarding the new spaces that you expect to be created with the funding over the five-year period? When do you expect those spaces to be created? Do you have so many in each fiscal year? Is it staggered? Could you provide us with some information on that?
Ms. Robertson: Thank you, senator. I did mention in my opening remarks that we will receive Vote 5 funding of just over $5 billion for that initiative. I’m going to pass this to my colleague Catherine Adam, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, who is responsible for that program.
Catherine Adam, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Employment and Social Development Canada: Thank you very much, senator, for the question.
The government is certainly very pleased to say that, as of last month, all 13 of the Canada-wide Early Learning and Child Care Agreements have been negotiated and signed with the provinces and territories. It is a significant step forward for the creation of a Canada-wide system.
Each one of the provincial and territorial agreements has an action plan that goes along with it that sets out for each jurisdiction how it is going to meet the targets on the fee reduction, which were key in the Canada-wide system. As you will recall, it was a 50% reduction in fees on average to families by the end of 2022 and reaching a $10-a-day average fee by 2025-26. Within that jurisdiction, we are also looking at space creation just to get to that key question. Each jurisdiction is different.
Senator Marshall: Could you provide us with something to indicate how many spaces in each year?
Ms. Adam: I can look at what we can do in terms of the total of what the action plans are looking at for space creation in each jurisdiction as they’re set out.
The Chair: Thank you. Please forward that in writing to the clerk, Ms. Adam.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: I’d like to thank the witnesses for providing us with this information. My first question is for Ms. Robertson from Employment and Social Development Canada. This has been the subject of media reports, and we, ourselves, have heard about these awful cases. With the pandemic going on and the economy in a fragile state, people have faced significant wait times to have their employment insurance applications processed. I can give you a number of examples in the Lower St. Lawrence–Gaspé region. Take Carl Raymond, for instance. He’s a self-employed worker in Dégelis who has been trying to get his case resolved for months. Every time he calls, he has to wait two and a half hours before he can talk to someone. I realize that the COVID support benefits have clogged up the system, but we were told that more staff would be hired. It doesn’t seem to be enough, however.
How many people were hired during the pandemic to process employment insurance claims? What is the standard processing time for a new employment insurance application? Those are my first two questions, but I will have more.
Ms. Robertson: Thank you, Senator Forest. I am the chief financial officer.
[English]
With me today is my colleague Cliff Groen, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for Service Canada for all the processing that takes place. I’m going to refer the question to Cliff, but I would like to share that at this time, in the Main Estimates in total, we are funded for just over 30,000 employees, but I don’t have the specifics with regard to Employment Insurance.
[Translation]
Cliff Groen, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Benefits and Integrated Services Branch, Employment and Social Development Canada: I am glad to be here today. In response to your questions, the first thing I would say is that we were able to meet the processing service standards for the previous fiscal year. The service standard for processing claims is 28 days, and I’m happy to report that we were able to respect that time frame in 85% of cases. That is our best performance in the past 15 years. You also asked about how many staff we had hired during the pandemic to boost claims processing and call centre capacity. We hired more than 3,000 people to help process claims and work at the call centres. Right now, we have more than 7,000 employees responsible for processing employment insurance claims and providing call centre support. The average wait time last year was 20 minutes for our call centres. We are aware of the long wait times some clients experience and we are working very hard to remedy the situation. We received an unprecedented number of applications during the pandemic, but we are making progress.
Senator Forest: If I understand correctly, then, right now, 85% of the applications you receive are processed within your service standard of 28 days. There seems to be a discrepancy, because out there, people’s situations are so dire that there’s no way the service standard is being met in their case. Mr. Raymond has been waiting over 100 days for his claim to be processed, and as for the 20-minute wait time, I guess he should buy a Lotto 6/49 ticket because he seems to be a winner every time he calls you. He has to wait two and a half hours to talk to someone, which is a far cry from 20 minutes. Do you have a plan to clear the backlog? Obviously, the situation is critical for people like him, who are really vulnerable. Are you going to hire more people to speed up processing, or do you think you have enough staff?
Mr. Groen: Thank you for your question. In terms of the average call centre wait time, it isn’t normal for someone to have to wait over two hours, even at certain times of day, including Monday, which is our busiest day. Currently, the average wait time is approximately 20 minutes. On Mondays, it can range from 30 to 40 minutes, but no longer than that. You mentioned one case in particular, so there are instances in which the service standards are not met, and we are doing our best to correct the situation.
As for staffing, we are facing a challenge right now. We hit a peak in the winter, when we saw a rise in the number of employment insurance claims. The peak period was from early December to late February. This year, the peak period coincided with the arrival of Omicron, so the number of incoming calls and cases was significantly higher from mid-December to late January.
We are making good headway on reducing wait times and making sure people get their benefits. I can look into the specific case you are referring to if you don’t mind passing on the gentleman’s contact information to me, through the clerk. I’d be happy to help him get the situation resolved. Thank you.
The Chair: I have you down for the second round, Senator Forest.
Senator Forest: Great. Thank you.
Senator Gignac: Welcome to the witnesses. Thank you for being here. Both of my questions are for the Employment and Social Development Canada officials. The first has to do with the child care plan. Quebec has had a child care system for decades, and it has clearly had benefits, including increased employment among women.
I’m trying to understand the agreements with the other provinces, especially against the backdrop of rapidly rising inflation. In the 2021 budget, the government allocated $30 billion to the program. In the 2022 budget, the government listed the number of child care spaces to be created in each province but stipulated that the provinces would have to meet the $10-a-day target for child care spaces. The plan is highly commendable, but with inflation continuing to rise, will the system cost the federal government more, or do you have a fixed amount of funding for the program? Is it going to be more expensive for the provinces to meet their child care space commitments? With higher inflation, will the number of spaces created be lower than what is currently on the table? I’d like to know more about how inflation factors into this. Are the provinces, the federal government, going to have to put more money in, or will there be fewer spaces?
The question is for Ms. Robertson or her colleagues.
Ms. Robertson: Thank you for your question.
[English]
I will begin and then ask my colleague Catherine Adam if she wants to add anything.
The funding we receive is fixed, Senator Gignac. We do not anticipate additional funding at this time. The department could request funding but there’s no guarantee. We’re generally not funded for inflation.
Overall, for everyone’s information, almost 80% of ESDC’s budget, specifically our operating budget, is employee based. We do get salary increases. So if a collective agreement is negotiated, we would get funded for those types of increases.
But to our grants and contributions programs, we are not funded for inflation. So we would have to go back and request via the federal budget, or another means, for increased amounts.
Ms. Adam, would you like to add to that in any way, specifically if you have any more information with respect to Quebec?
Ms. Adam: Thank you very much.
That is absolutely accurate. It’s a fixed envelope and we aren’t funded currently with it for inflation. This is the sum that we have negotiated with provinces based on their population of children aged zero to 12.
I do want to thank the senator for pointing out that Budget 2022 has a comprehensive table in it that looks at both the fee reduction and the spaces to be created. So to the earlier question, I did a quick calculation. If my calculator is right, what we have seen in terms of child care spaces to be created based on that table would be 466,252. We can still provide an answer in writing based on that.
That is simply the current situation. We would have to go back and request more money to see if there was a need. Certainly the costing takes into account right now what we see in terms of the population of children and the provincial and territorial systems and how they are also funding child care.
Senator Gignac: Make no mistake, we have experience in Quebec, being involved in the Quebec government as a minister. I agree with the idea of the program but the cost could accelerate big time. I’m curious who will pay the bill.
Basically, if you fix child care at $10 — in Quebec, in fact, it started at $5 in the beginning — but you have spoken about an envelope. I don’t know. In the negotiations with the provinces, is it a cost-sharing or is it a fixed amount you give to the provinces?
At the end of the day, if inflation is higher than what the government has projected — because I think the finance department works with a 2.5% average over the next five years — it’s basically fewer places available at $10.
I’m curious to know if it is a cost-sharing if inflation is higher than the baseline scenario; or is it that you will have fewer spaces available at $10, for example?
Ms. Adam: I would offer two responses, senator. The first is that the investment in Budget 2021 was to bring the federal government almost to an equal level with what provinces and territories were currently investing in their early learning and child care systems. In effect, it was bringing the federal government to the table as a major player to support a Canada-wide system.
The second is in recognition that this is going to be quite an immense undertaking, both for the federal government and for provinces and territories, to be able to meet the goals and objectives set out for Canada-wide early-learning and child care systems.
We have, at the request of each of the provinces and territories, included as part of the agreements an implementation committee which will have provincial, territorial and Canadian officials who will sit at each jurisdiction to be able to work through issues over the next four or five years as they come up.
We have a forum where we will work with each jurisdiction as equal partners to go through issues such as those you are raising on space creation and funding to be able to make sure that we are working in real time with provincial officials on the issues as they arise.
Those implementation committees, for the most part, will also support participation or some help and assistance from researchers, academics and from other stakeholder groups who have a vested interest in the Canada-wide system.
So it is twofold for that: a strong recognition that this is going to be a long-term project with implementation committees in place, and a real recognition that the provinces had been the major funders for early learning and child care until 2017, and most recently with the 2021 investments for the Canada-wide system.
Senator Gignac: Thank you.
Senator Richards: Thank you to the witnesses. I’m going to make a comment and then a question.
We’ve been in litigation with the First Nations since I was a boy. I’m not sure that it solves anything. I wish it did. I hope that the $20 billion in litigation that is coming forward will solve something, but I am not optimistic about it, sir. I’ll just mention that. I was going to ask a question about it, but Senator Marshall already asked it.
These are my follow-up questions: What is the percentage of vaccinations among Indigenous children compared to the other populations in Canada?
As a follow-up to that, Mr. Thompson, I’m wondering about the health facilities on the reserves and First Nations territories themselves; are there any First Nations nurses, doctors or health facilities on these reserves and First Nations territories? Could you comment on that, please?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question.
As you know, the department has been working actively on vaccination over the last few years. The results are very good. It’s something that keeps going with the variants that are coming, so we have to make sure we’re continuing to support. We’re investing in health care as well, for sure. You will see that throughout the amounts that are present in those Main Estimates.
We see steady increases in the investments that are made. We have received additional funding as well through the pandemic to make sure that we were in a position to support those communities.
In order to provide you with more details on your exact question, I would ask my colleague Keith Conn from the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch to provide you additional details on this question.
Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you.
To answer the question, we will circle back certainly when we have vaccination rates for all the age groups. I’ll circle back to the committee on the actual percentages.
On the issue of employment in communities, or Indigenous physicians or Indigenous nurses, we have some numbers on that. We’ll have to circle back on the participation rate in the health facilities that we currently operate across the nation.
Senator Richards: Excuse me, Mr. Conn. I’m thinking of money for education and training for Indigenous women and men to become doctors, nurses and facilitators of health services on reserves. I think not only does that have to happen but it should be happening. I am just wondering if you could provide any information on that.
When I was researching this a couple of years ago, it said there were very few First Nations doctors and nurses, and I think that in itself is a lapse in judgment and a crime, actually.
Mr. Conn: Thank you, senator, for the question. We can certainly circle back on what is available in the education field for bursaries and scholarships or training to enter the health field, whether it’s physicians or nurses. We certainly can come back to the committee with some data around that.
Senator Richards: Thank you.
Senator Pate: Thank you to the witnesses for attending. I have questions for Employment and Social Development Canada and Indigenous Services Canada. I’ll ask them both, and then if you don’t have time to provide all of the information, perhaps it could be sent in writing.
The 2021 report of the National Advisory Council on Poverty has this recommendation:
Crucially, we recommended that income support in Canada should be at least at the level of Canada’s Official Poverty Line.
They also stressed the need to implement the Calls to Action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and the Calls for Justice of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, which included ensuring that people are prevented from falling into poverty and that there’s action to improve supports for people who currently live in poverty and to improve income security and focus on transitions out of poverty.
You have indicated that there are resources going in that will address some of these issues, yet the focus is on employability of those who are living in poverty with disabilities, not on addressing those who are least likely to be employable, and those who have the highest level of disability.
I’m interested in how you see the allocations of expenditures will realize what the 2021 National Advisory Council on Poverty has described as their crucial recommendation that income support in Canada should be at least the level of the official poverty line, and how you see the allocated expenditures will match the progress achieved during the pandemic with CERB alleviating some of that poverty — not all, but some — given that the program no longer exists. That’s my question for ESDC.
For Indigenous Services Canada, similarly, you’ve talked about the fact that the courts have a settlement between Canada and certain First Nations regarding drinking water and the eligible individuals who have experienced specific injuries due to drinking water advisories that have lasted more than one year. How much do you anticipate the chronic underfunding of unequal services to Indigenous peoples will cost the government in future class actions? How much do you anticipate it will cost the Government of Canada in the case that individuals choose not to take the settlement offer that’s being provided? And when can it be expected that the Government of Canada will meet its settlement offers and, equally importantly, provide clean drinking water for all Indigenous peoples in Canada, as well as the need for the future income assistance that I’ve already spoken about?
Thank you very much to both departments, and I look forward to your responses.
Ms. Robertson: This is a challenging question, and I will eventually pass to my colleague Catherine Adam. I will start by saying that I agree with your comments, senator, that there’s a lot of money in this budget for skills and training, undoubtedly. For those who are not employable, in our Main Estimates there is significant funding for seniors, students, children and families, youth, persons with disabilities, Indigenous, social development and funding to address working conditions. There are many programs in the ESDC portfolio. Not all of those programs are targeted at getting people into the workforce. There’s a lot there to support all Canadians.
Catherine, maybe you can speak more specifically, please, on the senator’s question.
Ms. Adam: It has been a challenging time for all Canadians. As you have noted, there were a number of income supports that were put in place to help people deal with the pandemic and with some of the economic impacts of the pandemic, with job losses and closures and reduction in work hours. As well, the poverty reduction council has done an extensive consultation year over year across the country with Canadians and with poverty advocates to be able to get at a better understanding of some of the root causes of poverty, as well as options, suggestions and recommendations for moving forward.
The government already has a number of programs, as you know, that were in place before we put the pandemic measures in place. There is the Canada Child Benefit that provides support to families with children. There is the Old Age Security pension and the Guaranteed Income Supplement for seniors, both of which get at low-income seniors to help raise them out of poverty, as does the Canada Child Benefit, reaching families. It’s income based and it is driving to help families with the high cost of raising children and of ensuring the safety and security of their families.
The department continues to do ongoing research and analysis around the kinds of income supports we look at, the potential shorter- and longer-term policy responses that could meet the needs of Canadians. Certainly, what we’ve seen in the time of the pandemic and the numbers coming out of the most recent Canadian income study has suggested that rates of poverty have been improving over time in Canada, particularly just before the pandemic. We need to take a look and do some work as well with provinces and territories that share a responsibility on income support and poverty reduction across this country for Canadians in their own jurisdictions. So we continue to work with them and look at what possible solutions there may be and what some of the far-reaching impacts of the pandemic could be to come up with some policy responses that we could look at going forward.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Pate. For the other department, if you could please send your answer in writing, we’ll give you the time frame that we have.
Senator Boehm: I have two questions in this round, one for Indigenous Services Canada and the other for the Public Health Agency of Canada.
I want to talk about universal broadband access. Getting all Canadians connected to reliable and affordable high-speed internet has long been a stated priority of the government. In fact, we’ve debated it here many times. The past two years of COVID have proven just how much we rely on the internet from working and studying at home to applying for benefit programs. Obviously, there’s a significant urban/rural/Indigenous divide when it comes to internet access.
There’s a great deal in the Main Estimates for items under which could fall increasing internet access in Indigenous communities: building and maintaining infrastructure, post-secondary education strategies, and helping youth participate in education and the labour market and more. Certainly, this underscores the self-determination goal, and this will, of course, require access to the internet as well.
Of the roughly $39.6 billion that ISC is requesting, how much of it is dedicated to ensuring Indigenous communities across Canada have access, and the requisite initial and ongoing infrastructure, to reliable and affordable high-speed internet? We know there are more than 630 First Nations communities in our country. How many currently have reliable internet access? How many don’t? We all know of the efforts being made to end boil water advisories, and they’re laudable, but are there similar efforts under way to ensure connectivity on the reserves?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. We agree that broadband access is absolutely fundamental in 2022 to be able to participate in day-to-day life. The department is working very closely with partners like Innovation, Science and Economic Development as well, ensuring we are delivering broadband connectivity to remote communities and that all communities will be connected to the grid.
I will turn to my colleague Paula Hadden-Jokiel from Regional Operations to provide additional details on the work the department is doing in this field.
Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations, Indigenous Services Canada: Good morning. I’m pleased to be joining you today from the unceded, traditional territory of the Algonquin people.
As Mr. Thompson said, connectivity is a priority. Particularly through COVID-19, we have seen the importance that this plays in connecting communities to one another and to assistance from partners. Connectivity is one of the eligible areas of infrastructure that we fund through the category of other community infrastructure.
For the estimates, the total amount in there is $938 million. That includes a number of categories of which connectivity is one. It would also include culture and recreation centres, energy systems and band administrative buildings. To date, since last year, there was about $76 million invested in connectivity projects. So it varies from year to year depending on the priorities identified by communities. But importantly, as Phil said, there is much work to do with other partners in this space to make sure First Nations are supported with their connectivity needs. Thank you.
Senator Boehm: Thank you. If I may move to my question for the Public Health Agency of Canada, I have an interest in the international dimension, and regarding Canada’s contribution to the COVAX accelerator facility, in both money and vaccines, what is it this year and how long will it continue?
Secondly — and I feel this is very important — over the past two years, we have seen an incredible amount of harmful misinformation and disinformation about vaccinations and COVID-19 itself all over social media and certainly in our parliamentary email inboxes. How has PHAC worked to combat this? Have there been any specific programs created? If so, how much has been spent or will be spent? How much cross-departmental collaboration is there on misinformation and disinformation campaigns?
Mr. Krumins: For the question regarding COVAX and international work, I’ll turn to my colleague Stephen Bent, in the interest of time. For the work regarding general misinformation and communications about the importance of vaccination, I will turn to my colleague Dr. Howard Njoo.
Stephen Bent, Acting Vice-President, COVID-19 Vaccine Rollout Task Force, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you for your question, senator. The Public Health Agency of Canada and Global Affairs Canada see COVAX as an important partner in supporting global vaccine equity. As of April 6, over 14.2 million surplus vaccine doses have been delivered through the COVAX facility. This includes 5.6 million donated doses of Moderna, which have been delivered to Egypt, Uganda and Rwanda, in addition to millions of surplus AstraZeneca doses donated through the COVAX facility as well.
Canada’s financial contribution to COVAX has made the equivalent of 87 million doses available to low- and middle-income countries. As you may be aware, on April 8, the Prime Minister announced $220 million in funding to support COVID-19 vaccination needs in lower-income countries. This support builds on more than $2.7 billion that Canada has provided for international assistance in response to COVID-19. This new funding will help address barriers to access to COVID-19 vaccines and improve the capacity of lower-income countries to distribute vaccines by ensuring countries have the financial, operational and technical support they need to get people vaccinated. Thank you.
The Chair: For the other questions that have been asked and for which we did not get an answer, we have a deadline I will share with you. Could you provide, through the clerk, written answers by May 3, please?
Senator Duncan: Thank you to the witnesses that are appearing before us today. My question to start with focuses on Indigenous Services Canada. In the Main Estimates, the Yukon is mentioned in two instances that immediately that come to mind. There is a reference to “on-reserve residents.” To the best of my knowledge, Yukon does not have reserves; rather, we have land set aside. Could I have an explanation in writing as to why “on reserve” is mentioned?
However, I would like to focus on the fact that we have 11 self-governing First Nations in the Yukon. About the contributions to the self-governing First Nations, because we have a government-to-government-to-government relationship, we wouldn’t necessarily see results in the departmental results report. I would like to ask about the funding that’s outlined elsewhere in the departmental estimates. There are no results listed in the departmental report.
What I would like to see is a cross-country breakdown and an assurance that the funding that has been allocated is, in fact, allocated to the Indigenous population throughout Canada. Rather than these specific programs, there is an amount listed in the results. Could we have in writing from the department how that funding is spread throughout the country and if it is, in fact, related to the Indigenous population throughout Canada? Could we have an answer to that or an assurance?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. I acknowledge we do have, in the grants section of the Main Estimates, funding that is intended for Yukon. It relates to income support — income assistance. It’s provided through a grant with regard to performance information related to that program. The performance information would be captured under the income assistance program. So it’s the mechanism that is different. Also it is important to note that most of the services that are delivered to Yukon are delivered through our colleague’s department, Crown-Indigenous Relations. The equivalent of a lot of the programming that is being delivered by the Indigenous Services Canada would be delivered by the department that is responsible for the North.
We can provide additional information in writing with regard to that second question.
Senator Duncan: Thank you. I’ll look forward to that.
If we could move on to Employment and Social Development Canada, there were some questions asked regarding the processing of Employment Insurance claims and the difficulties that have been encountered by Canadians. I’m wondering if the department could provide information regarding dispute resolution. A significant number of situations have been brought to the attention of members of Parliament — and, in some cases, senators — about disputes regarding the application and transfer of CERB money to EI. How are these disputes being resolved, and what is the time frame that is being applied for the resolution of these disputes?
Ms. Robertson: I’m grateful to my colleague, Cliff Groen, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister for Service Canada. He is ready to reply.
Mr. Groen: Thank you, senator, for the question. Regarding the EI program, there is a recourse process that people have available to them. There are three levels of recourse. The first level is a request for reconsideration. So when we make an initial decision related to someone’s entitlement, people are advised of their appeal rights. The first level is a request for reconsideration, in which their case is reviewed by a different Service Canada officer to look at the facts of the case and any additional information the client may provide to us.
We have a service standard to reply to that request within 30 days. Last year, we achieved that standard more than 80% of the time. If the client continues to dispute the decision, they can file an appeal at the Social Security Tribunal, where there are two levels of appeal. Regarding your specific example, if someone was contesting an overpayment that has been identified related to a CERB payment, if it was a CERB payment issued by Service Canada under the Employment Insurance Act, they have those levels of appeal available to them. Thank you.
Senator Duncan: And can we be assured that that time frame is being followed? If it is not, what is the option to reach out to your department directly?
Mr. Groen: Yes. The service standard for the first level of appeal, which is within our department, is to make a decision within 30 days of someone filing a request for reconsideration. Our target is to do it within 30 days 80% of the time. Last year, we achieved it more than 80% of the time. It is something we closely monitor, as volumes can increase and decrease. Last year the service standard was met and we anticipate we will be able to achieve that service standard this year as well.
If an individual has particular challenges, by all means they can contact our Service Canada call centre within the Employment Insurance program and we can look further into their case. If you have a specific client for whom there is a particular challenge, by all means I would be happy if you could provide that information to the clerk and I would be happy to look into it.
Senator Duncan: Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you to our panellists for being here today. My question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada and it is on the national autism strategy.
In your departmental plan for 2022-23, I noted that the Public Health Agency of Canada is committed to accelerating the development of a national autism strategy and investing in community-based projects and innovative program models through the Autism Spectrum Disorder Strategic Fund. As you might know, there is currently a bill before the Senate — Bill S-203 — that seeks to implement a national framework on autism. I know that $9.1 million over five years was earmarked in Budget 2018 for this fund. Can you provide us with an update on how this money is being spent and which community-based projects have been approved so far? Also, are you in any position to give our committee an update on the development of the national strategy?
Mr. Krumins: Thank you. I will turn to my colleague Candice St-Aubin to provide an answer.
Candice St-Aubin, Vice-President, Health Promotion and Chronic Disease Prevention Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you. Yes, as you mentioned, we are working at supporting community investments to address a very real issue currently happening. It certainly has been exacerbated by the pandemic. What I propose to do, however, is to provide in writing to the committee a list of those projects given that it has been a few years now, the call has been evolving and programs have been funded.
When it relates to the development of a national strategy, there have been a series of engagements that have been led and been publicly held throughout Canada to seek input from those currently living with autism as well as providers and caregivers of those individuals. As part of this strategy, we have engaged with the Canadian Academy of Health Sciences, a neutral, independent not-for-profit organization, to lead these broad consultations. They have been under way for several months now, and certainly throughout the pandemic, which has slowed but not limited it. The work of other key stakeholders has also been considered in the development of the strategy and we are looking forward to coming back to provide the recommendations that the Canadian Academy of Health Sciences will provide to the Public Health Agency of Canada to consider.
Furthermore, these facilitated conversations that have been held have been evidence-based dialogue as well as including families and other stakeholders who are very much involved in this area. Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you. My second question is for Employment and Social Development Canada and it’s on the Social Innovation and Social Finance Strategy. Maybe we have a little more time to discuss it.
I would like additional information on the Social Innovation and Social Finance Strategy. I see that $131 million is being sought in the Main Estimates for this program. Your departmental plan mentions that you will continue to implement the strategy by launching the social finance fund and the social innovation advisory council. Can you speak to us about both initiatives and provide us with an update? I know the fund is a $755 million initiative that seeks to accelerate the growth of Canada’s social finance market. What criteria are the government using to determine where it invests this money? You must be looking at projects or initiatives that create social and environmental impact in addition to generating some financial returns.
Ms. Robertson: Thank you very much for that question. At this point in time, if you don’t mind, we’ll reply to that in writing.
Senator Loffreda: My third question is for Indigenous Services Canada. Indigenous communities build economic prosperity. Under the heading Indigenous communities build economic prosperity in your 2020-21 Departmental Plan, I noticed a troubling result indicator on the percentage increase of Indigenous businesses created and/or expanded. Your department’s target is to increase the number by 2% by March 2023. However, the actual result for 2018-19 is negative 3.9%; negative 3.6% the following year and a negative 6.92% in 2020-21. Can you provide us with some comments on this performance indicator? Is this something we should be worried about? Is this a trend that can be reversed rapidly to meet your 2023 target?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. I will try to provide an answer. Unfortunately, my colleague Kelley Blanchette was not able to join us this morning. This has been a particular situation for Indigenous businesses with the pandemic over the last few years. The department has continued throughout COVID to provide funding to support Indigenous businesses, and a significant amount of that funding was provided with loans or to support women entrepreneurs. We also supported communities with a loss of home-sourced revenue, and so on.
I think it’s going to be extremely important for the department to pay special attention to Indigenous businesses as we recover from the pandemic situation. I know that the team in the Lands and Economic Development Services Program is working closely with capital corporations across the country to make sure we are supporting the needs of communities. At this moment, unfortunately, I cannot provide you with more details. However, we can provide you with additional details in writing with regard to the situation of businesses, the indicators you are seeing in our departmental plan as well as all the efforts the department is doing to support businesses.
The Chair: Thank you. Mr. Thompson, again, we have a deadline of May 3 to have the written answers submitted to our clerk please. Do we agree on that?
Mr. Thompson: Yes, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: That also goes for the other two departments.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Thank you to all our witnesses. My first question is for Indigenous Services Canada.
The issue of forced sterilization of Indigenous women remains a major one in Indigenous communities. Moreover, according to the report on forced sterilization published by the Committee on Human Rights last summer, the majority of people who need care are forced to travel far away and fly to access this health care. They face linguistic and cultural discrimination and get inconsistent care. Can you give us more details on what is planned in the 2022 budget to bring health care closer to Indigenous communities? Are there any provisions in the budget to improve Indigenous health services in this regard?
Mr. Thompson: You will see in our budget request, for this year’s Main Estimates, that there is a significant increase in funding for just about every budget item related to Indigenous health. The needs are great and resources continue to be stretched to ensure we are able to meet the needs.
On your more specific question, I will turn to my colleague Keith Conn, who will provide more detail on the department’s efforts to address this situation.
[English]
Mr. Conn: Thank you for the question. We do have some work that’s been in play for some time with communities and advocates on the issue of forced sterilization, so we’ll have to circle back to the committee on the details about what work is being done now and into the future around the issue of forced sterilization.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Thank you. This question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada. Because it was difficult to obtain information on patients and caregivers during the COVID-19 pandemic, Quebec has put in place new legislation that will facilitate access to health data. Bill 19 creates a database that contains information about each medical consultation with the patient. The patient will be able to access this information using a smartphone.
Are there other technology platforms that need to be improved to ensure better federal-provincial collaboration on emerging public health issues? Thank you.
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Excellent. Thank you for your question, senator. I will turn to my colleague Aline Dimitri, who is our resident expert on data in the agency.
Senator Gerba: Thank you.
Aline Dimitri, Acting Vice-President, Corporate Data and Surveillance Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you for the question. We at the Public Health Agency of Canada have actually realized all throughout the pandemic how important data is, to have it in a timely manner and to have good quality data. We have used multiple different types of data to help us.
[Translation]
I was saying that the pandemic really showed how important data is for making informed decisions during these public health emergencies. We did use different types of data throughout this emergency. We also worked to improve the information exchange platforms. We’ve also made sure that we’re working with our provincial and territorial colleagues to develop a Canada-wide health data strategy, which will allow us to address persistent problems and systematic barriers to data sharing, access and use. At the same time, we have looked at how we can improve the use of big data, such as mobile and telephony data. This data has given us a good understanding of how the population responds to different public health guidelines and what benefits have been achieved from these interventions.
Finally, we are still exploring to find platforms that can help us get quality information quickly so that we can make faster decisions, but also to understand the state of play quickly and inform the public and the people who are making decisions at all levels of government, both federal and provincial.
Senator Gerba: Thank you.
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Ms. Crescenzi. You are the deputy minister responsible for the integrity program at Service Canada. I imagine that’s a very important function when there’s so much money to spend.
I would like to know if, in the last two years, any special measures have been put in place or have had to be modified to ensure that there is no abuse. If so, can you give us examples of steps you have taken?
[English]
Mary Crescenzi, Assistant Deputy Minister, Integrity Services Branch, Service Canada, Employment and Social Development Canada: Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to be here. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair and senator.
Over the last two years, very similar to examples right across the globe, there have been increases associated with cybersecurity threats to various government agencies, in fact, right across the world. The International Public Sector Fraud Forum indicates that there has been a significant increase. In response to that, there have been a number of measures that our department has introduced, one of which, of course, is working very closely with Peter Littlefield, who is our Chief Information Officer. We have been looking at cybersecurity measures for the outer perimeter.
Some of the examples that we can provide of things we have done are as follows. We introduced activities associated to looking at patterns, algorithms and activities that give us immediate indication that the activity is not associated with a human being but is, in fact, representative of a bot attack.
Immediate steps were taken in order to put stop-pays in the system, which we did discover during the Canada Emergency Response Benefit activity, where we were able to put in stop-pays on over 38,000 attempts to access our funds that would have seen close to $38 million going into the hands of nefarious individuals. We were able to prevent these activities and those dollars going to bad actors.
We are also looking at other technological solutions in order to bolster these activities, and we have also increased the number of investigators, and we are working very closely with other enforcement agencies, such as the RCMP and local authorities, when these fraudulent activities call for those types of interventions.
We are learning from those pieces. We are also looking at ways to continue to introduce those investigative types of responses, as well as looking at what’s happening throughout the last few months with our department as well.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: How are we spending to ensure the integrity of the spending process at Service Canada?
[English]
Ms. Crescenzi: We have a number of activities.
Service Canada really does balance the protection of public funds against the need to put people into pay. We have individuals in our Integrity Services Branch dedicated to looking at eligibility criteria, the activities and the different steps that are being taken throughout the process of accessing our Employment Insurance and other programs. We stay on top of leading practices in order to do so, using, as I was saying earlier, those types of data analysis and algorithms that we are seeing, and they also put in those stop-pay measures. We continue to train and bring people in to ensure the integrity of our programs and put in those stop-pays and the overpayments that are required to come back into the public fund, as well as monitoring trends and being responsive to lessons learned from those trends.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Still on the topic of expenditure management at Health Canada, my next question is for Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson, it is said that the expenditure performance index is 48% at Health Canada. I think we can do better. When you look at the same index at Indigenous Services Canada, I think it’s 9%; I find that disturbing. This is not the first time this has come up.
Can we expect quick changes so that Canadians have confidence in the management of the $39 billion that has been granted? Where is the problem with performance? My question is for Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson: Thanks very much for the question. This year, we are seeing a marked increase in the department’s budget. So there’s an increase of almost $20 billion, but it’s really all related to the compensation program in the litigation. So that distorts the data a bit in terms of the total budget and the measures that are in place. In terms of program performance, as you know, Indigenous communities do better when they take control of their programs and determine where the needs are in their communities, rather than a more paternalistic system where the federal government determines where the needs are. More and more of our programs are being created in a service transfer context.
The Chair: You may wish to complete your response in writing on this issue. The deadline is May 3 if you forward your response to the clerk.
[English]
Senator Galvez: Thank you to my colleagues for their brave questions.
My question is to Indigenous Services Canada. In the opening remarks, we talked about $39 billion that should cover issues such as health, family and community building. My question is transversal to these three aspects of development, namely water quantity and water quality.
I have two questions. One is a new problem, which concerns the water in Iqaluit. I’m sure you know that Iqaluit’s water was contaminated with diesel oil in October, and it took one week before the government said to stop drinking that water.
I was asked as an expert to give my opinion on this, and I realized that the guidance that we use to determine whether or not water contains toxic substances is out of date. It needs to be updated and modernized, because you are accepting high detection limits and looking for families of compounds when the carcinogens in diesel oil are individual compounds that should be measured.
I would like to know if there are funds within the money we are allocating that are designated to solve these types of new problems that will happen now.
The other question concerns the settlement with First Nations. We know that there has been $1.8 billion calculated for settlements with individual families. I would like to know how this has been calculated.
I have another question with regards to that: on the $6 billion commitment for water infrastructure, is it additional to the funding that has already been allocated, or is it part of the funding already announced?
Thank you.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for the question.
Since this question is related to the water program, I will ask my colleague Paula Hadden-Jokiel to provide an answer to the committee.
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: Good morning, and thank you for the question, Senator Galvez.
Obviously, water and waste water management is a significant concern and area of focus for our department. We work very closely with First Nations partners across the country to improve drinking water quality on reserve.
Let me start with the settlement, senator. This class action settlement on safe drinking water was signed in September 2021. The court approved it in December, and the effective implementation date is February 22, 2022. Earlier this month the government fulfilled its legal requirement to transfer compensation to third-party trusts, and there is a website that is active and online now for individuals and communities to access the forms and procedures to work with the third party, Deloitte, to seek compensation. That is well on its way.
There has been a lot of progress since April 2016 on water and waste water. Over $2.2 billion has been invested since that time in over 800 projects. As you know, there are a number of drinking water advisories that remain, and much work has to be done. There have been 132 long-term drinking water advisories lifted during that period. Currently, there are 33 long-term drinking water advisories that remain in 28 communities. In each of the communities that have an outstanding long-term drinking water advisory, we are heavily engaged with that community through our regional offices. Each one has an action plan to work through to a resolution.
On your question around modernization, I would have to get back to you in writing in terms of some of the details of our investments in those new areas of interest.
Thank you.
Senator Marshall: My questions are for Employment and Social Development Canada. If you look at the Main Estimates, there is a non-budgetary total statutory amount of negative $205 million, which is quite unusual. Could you provide some explanation as to what that is?
Ms. Robertson: Thank you very much for your question, senator and Mr. Chair.
You’ll have to give me a second, because the non-budgetary refers to Canada’s student loan program, but I have to find the reference. If you’ll bear with me for 30 seconds, I will pull that out.
Senator Marshall: That will eat into my time. Can I go on to another question?
Ms. Robertson: Please do. By then I’ll be able to give you an answer. Sorry about that. Thank you.
Senator Marshall: I notice in the performance indicators that you’ve only met 41% of your performance targets. I’m wondering what the problem is and what you’re going to do to improve your results so that we can assess you when you come back for Supplementary Estimates (A).
Ms. Robertson: I believe the senator’s question refers to the Departmental Plan. May I ask if I’m correct in that assumption?
Senator Marshall: Yes, the one on the performance indicators; your results for 2021.
Ms. Robertson: Thank you very much. May I please call upon my colleague Catherine Adam again? She is the Senior Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for the Departmental Plan.
Ms. Adam: Senator, it’s an excellent question. I’d like to get back to you in writing on this. There are a number of factors that can go into the performance indicators and how we meet them, given the breadth and depth of programs the ESDC provides.
Senator Marshall: I can squeeze in another question.
I want to go to the child care strategy and clarify that I can get the information that I’m looking for.
For the creation of the new spaces and new positions, I know there are totals that you mentioned. You added them up. But we’re not going to wait until the end of year five to find out whether we’ve met the total or not. Can you provide us with something that will indicate how many new spaces and positions you are estimating for each fiscal year over the next five years? That’s what I’m looking for.
Ms. Adam: Yes, I understood from your question earlier you would like a year-by-year breakdown of the number of spaces that can be created. I did a fast calculation. I would not trust my math on that, much to my children’s embarrassment, but we will get back to you in writing.
Senator Marshall: The other answer is in writing. Thank you very much.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: The Prime Minister has mandated Employment and Social Development Canada to begin implementation next summer of a plan to modernize employment insurance programs fit for the 21st century, which particularly affect seasonal workers and the self-employed in many regions of Canada.
The April 7 budget only rolled over the temporary measures affecting seasonal workers, and announced that the government will release its long-term plan. We are getting lost in the timelines.
What is ESDC committing to deliver for summer 2022? When is the long-term plan to modernize employment insurance expected to be tabled?
Ms. Robertson: Thank you for your question, senator.
[English]
I’m going to have to defer to my colleagues on that question. I think there’s a combination of temporary foreign workers as well as Employment Insurance. Give me 10 seconds to see if somebody would like to step in.
[Translation]
Ms. Demers, are you able to answer this question?
Catherine Demers, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Employment and Social Development Canada: With pleasure. Thank you for your question, senator. Indeed, modernizing employment insurance remains a priority for the government. This priority was confirmed in the 2022 budget and was also confirmed by our minister in an appearance before a committee to announce that phase 2 of the consultations on the employment insurance system will begin shortly, and that it will follow up on the first phase, which began last summer and ended in February.
You know, the EI reform project is very broad. It aims to determine what improvements can be made for seasonal workers. How can we better meet the needs of self-employed workers? How can we address eligibility issues for workers who pay into the system but do not always have access to it? How can benefit duration and rates be examined in a context where some lower-income workers have expressed concerns about the benefits they receive?
These are things we heard during the first phase of consultations. We will continue in the same vein for the second phase in the coming months.
The Chair: Ms. Demers, since our time is limited, can you follow up in writing with our clerk by May 3?
Ms. Demers: Certainly, but I would like to add that there will be more specific information about the phase 2 consultation announcement soon which will be helpful in answering the question in more detail.
Senator Gignac: My question is for officials at Employment and Social Development Canada. Canada’s population is aging, which has an impact on government spending.
The costs of funding the Old Age Security pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement are skyrocketing and will reach $87 billion by 2025-26, according to budget projections, or about 19% of total government program spending.
In light of the accelerating increase in inflation, is the federal government considering any adjustments to eligibility or the indexation formula?
Ms. Robertson: Thank you for your question, Senator Gignac.
[English]
I’ll ask my colleague Alexis Conrad, who has joined me; he is Senior Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for that area.
Alexis Conrad, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Employment and Social Development Canada: Thank you. The Old Age Security and Canada Pension Plan programs are linked to core inflation. They’re adjusted quarterly to that, and that’s written into the legislation. It works well. It’s a program that keeps up with the cost of living. In that sense, it protects quite well lower-income seniors and seniors below the threshold by which OAS ends.
The forecast in terms of the spending and the take-up of the benefit and who receives it are something we do with the Chief Actuary of Canada. The program, to my mind, is well positioned to meet the needs of seniors in terms of affordability during what is obviously a challenging time.
Senator Richards: I’m going to follow up and ask if I can get in writing some sort of indication of how many health facilities are on First Nations territories and how many First Nations health providers there are. If I could get that information, I’d be very happy, because I’ve been searching for it for the last little while. What I found out is that I believe there’s only one First Nations surgeon in Canada. I might be totally wrong. If I am, I do apologize. But I would like to know and have some indication of that, not for my own benefit but for the research I’m trying to do.
If you could answer that, I’d be very happy. Thank you very much.
Mr. Thompson: We will be pleased to provide the information in writing.
Senator Boehm: In anticipating your ruling, I too would welcome a detailed reply in writing to my question, which is for ESDC, Ms. Robertson.
ESDC is requesting $4.6 million for the Sustainable Development Goals Funding Program. This is a grants and contributions program that seeks to increase public awareness of the SDGs, support new partnerships to advance action and identify and implement innovative initiatives to drive progress on them. Of course, the government works with all levels of government across Canada, NGOs, Indigenous peoples, the private sector, post-secondary institutions and others to support the goals of the program. This is an area with which I have some experience from my previous life, mainly to keep it out of the international side because it’s a domestic implementation issue.
There are 17 of these SDGs. Are there any on which the government places particular importance, or do all 17 basically get equal funding and support? How is it decided which organizations will receive funding? Is there a requirement to ensure, for example, that funds are allocated more or less equally across the country? Is there any specific portion of the funds that are allocated to SDG-related programs and Indigenous communities or to benefit otherwise racialized communities? Finally, and I think this is very important, where so much of the SDG funding program is about increasing public awareness, do cultural and linguistic considerations factor into how this is done? I’m thinking in particular of Indigenous and immigrant communities in Canada.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Boehm. This will be followed up in writing, please.
Ms. Robertson: Yes, Mr. Chair, by May 3.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Boehm: Thank you.
Senator Duncan: I’d like to thank the witnesses for their answers and for their appearance today. I don’t think I was clear in my first question. There are a number of contributions that are outlined in Indigenous Services Canada, and I would like it if the department would please provide in writing a response to my first question: Are these contribution programs largely applicant driven, or how is it determined that the funding is disbursed? And how is the funding for these programs disbursed throughout the country? For example, regarding the contribution to First Nations for the management of contaminated sites, which contaminated sites are being dealt with under this program and, again, is it application driven? If I could have the response for these contribution agreements, as it’s quite a detailed response, in writing, I’d appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Senator Loffreda: My question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada and the National Emergency Strategic Stockpile. What is the status of this management plan? What lessons have you learned from the COVID pandemic that can reassure Canadians that we will be better prepared for the next crisis? Are there any challenges or unexpected issues that are preventing you from implementing the plan you want?
One of your priorities was to enhance the capacity of the National Emergency Strategic Stockpile, or NESS, and you’re well aware of the Auditor General’s report. In your own departmental plan, you note that you will be developing a comprehensive management plan and building on lessons learned as identified by the Auditor General to ensure there is a robust and flexible emergency stockpile in place ahead of the next crisis.
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question. I will turn to my colleague Cindy Evans for the response.
Cindy Evans, Vice-President, Emergency Management Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you for the question, senator. You’re right, there have been a number of lessons learned by the department as a result of the response to COVID-19. One of the early ones was in terms of the availability of data sharing with our provincial and territorial colleagues. That is somewhere we’ve leaned forward and worked closely through our federal-provincial-territorial governances and under our FPT public health response plan to a biological event. We’ve worked closely with provinces and territories to better understand their stockpile situations as well as the demand rates.
Another important learning for us was the flexibility of response within a pandemic. We saw changes in clinical practice and changes in demand. Just as an example, when the Omicron variant of concern was having its impact within Canada, we saw increased and more broad usage of N95 masks. In keeping with our governance, we worked with the provinces and territories and looked to increase purchasing in areas to make sure we could meet those increased demands.
We’ve also used and learned from data availability to bolster and look more closely at what an eight-week supply would look like across a number of commodities. The critical ones for a respiratory illness are surgical masks, respirators, face shields, gloves and gowns. There’s been learnings in that area.
Another key aspect for us is the work that was done in collaboration with a number of departments, including with PSPC and ISED, to have increased domestic manufacturing capacity. For the majority of those critical commodities for a respiratory illness, we are in a different place than we were at the beginning of the pandemic.
With respect to the comprehensive management plan for NESS, we’ve laid out a plan that would have us work on optimizing life-cycle management to strengthen our governance models, to enhance our infrastructure and systems and to work closely with provinces, territories and other key partners so we can very specifically define the public health needs and roles and responsibilities. We are very focused right now on continuing our response to COVID-19. However, we have taken some initial steps towards these objectives. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Evans. If you want to add to the last question by Senator Loffreda, please do not hesitate, as long as we keep in mind the due date of May 3. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I would like to ask a question of Employment and Social Development Canada officials. A year ago, several senators worked with organizations that support Black entrepreneurs across the country to conduct a survey exploring the challenges they face. The responses obtained provided a sufficient basis to create the Black Entrepreneurship Loan Fund.
Budget 2020 mentioned that immigration would be a key driver of labour force growth. According to a KPMG survey, the unemployment rate continues to rise in Black communities. This reality also shows that Black Canadians continue to struggle to find employment and often turn to entrepreneurship.
Can you tell us if the 2022 budget still has a focus on job creation for Black entrepreneurs, and especially on business creation and support for Black entrepreneurs within their businesses?
Ms. Robertson: Thank you for your question, senator.
[English]
There are definitely Budget 2022 initiatives. There are 12 or 13, not all dealing with that complex issue, but I think because of the complex nature of that question, ESDC should answer that in writing. I hope that will be acceptable to you, senator.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: All right, thank you.
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Employment and Social Development Canada and it is about student assistance. The increase in this budget item has been relatively significant in recent years, especially with the pandemic. Given that we are talking about $5 billion for the 2022-23 fiscal year, I would like to know the spending strategy. Who will this money go to? How much of it will go directly to students and, obviously, how much will it cost to administer these programs?
Ms. Robertson: Thank you for your question, senator.
[English]
You’re absolutely right. There is $6 billion for student programs in this budget, with almost 10 different programs. My colleague Atiq Rahman has joined me and will provide a little more context.
The Chair: Because of the time, could that be provided in writing, Ms. Robertson?
Ms. Robertson: Absolutely, by May 3.
The Chair: Yes, thank you.
Senators, witnesses and our viewing public, that completes the agenda items for today. Before we adjourn, though, I would like to tell the officials, through Mr. Philippe Thompson, Ms. Karen Robertson and Mr. Martin Krumins, that the deadline we have for written answers is the end of the day on Tuesday, May 3, 2022, and those answers should be sent directly to the clerk. Please keep that in mind so that we can draft and table a report when the time comes that includes the answers you are responsible for providing.
I will now inform honourable senators that our next meeting will be this Thursday at 4 p.m. We will have before us the President of the Treasury Board, the Honourable Mona Fortier.
Thank you all.
(The committee adjourned.)