THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Monday, February 28, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met with videoconference this day at 6:02 p.m. [ET] to study the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the Act.
Senator René Cormier (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Before we begin, I would like to remind senators and witnesses to please keep your microphones muted at all times, unless recognized by name by the chair. Participants should know to do so in a private area and to be mindful of their surroundings.
[Translation]
If you experience other technical challenges, please contact the ISD Service Desk with the number provided in the meeting confirmation notice. Should any technical challenges arise, particularly in relation to interpretation, please signal this to the chair or the clerk and we will work to resolve the issue.
[English]
We will now begin with our meeting as per our order of reference received from the Senate of Canada.
My name is René Cormier, senator from New Brunswick and chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I would like to introduce the members of the committee who are participating in this meeting.
[Translation]
We have Senator Poirier, deputy chair of the committee; members of the steering committee Senator Gagné from Manitoba, and Senator Dagenais from Quebec; committee members from Ontario, Senator Clement and Senator Moncion; and committee members from Quebec, Senator Mégie and Senator Dalphond, and from New Brunswick, Senator Mockler.
[English]
I wish to welcome all of you and viewers across the country who may be watching. I would like to point out that I am taking part in this meeting from within the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe Nation.
[Translation]
Colleagues, allow me to take a few minutes to express our solidarity with the Ukrainian people, who are living through very dark times at the moment. Last week, the Senate of Canada unanimously adopted a motion affirming its support for Ukrainians, as well as all Canadians of Ukrainian descent. Our thoughts are with you.
Today, pursuant to the order of reference received from the Senate on December 14, joining us by videoconference, we welcome the Honourable Mona Fortier, President of the Treasury Board.
The minister will be with us for one hour only, until 7 p.m. She is accompanied by two of her officials: from the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, Mireille Laroche, Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, and Carsten Quell, Executive Director, Official Languages Centre of Excellence.
Madam Minister, Ms. Laroche and Mr. Quell, welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. We’re very pleased to welcome you. We’ll hear your opening remarks, Madam Minister. It will be followed by questions from the senators. The floor is yours.
Hon. Mona Fortier, P.C., M.P., President of the Treasury Board: Mr. Chair and members of the committee, it’s a great privilege to be with you today to discuss the important work that the Treasury Board Secretariat is doing to strengthen and promote Canada’s official languages within the federal public service and across the country.
As you mentioned, I’m accompanied by Mireille Laroche, Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, and Carsten Quell, Executive Director, Official Languages Centre of Excellence, from the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer.
Before I continue, I’d like to sincerely thank the members of this committee for their work in helping to implement the Official Languages Act and promote our official languages in our legislation, regulations, programs and services. This is important work and I’m grateful for your commitment to these issues.
Mr. Chair, Canada’s official languages are a defining characteristic of our identity as a country. They are central to our history. They reinforce our values of diversity and inclusion and contribute to social cohesion and resilience.
As a proud Franco-Ontarian, I can say that I care passionately about our two official languages and about defending the interests of francophone minority communities. Our two official languages represent us, make us vibrant and allow us to thrive.
Our language is our identity, and it helps us flourish not only locally, but also internationally. Canadians want us to do more to ensure the sustainability and vitality of both official languages and to strengthen French across the country, so that ultimately our communities remain strong and vibrant.
The Commissioner of Official Languages recently released a public opinion survey that indicates support for official languages, at 87%, remains solid across Canada.
In the federal public service, we’ve seen improvements on all fronts. Since 2000, we’ve seen increases in the proportion of bilingual positions, bilingual employees and employees who provide services to the public in both official languages.
The federal government recognizes the importance of our two official languages and understands that it has a responsibility to support and defend French throughout Canada, including in Quebec, while promoting the rights of English-speaking communities in that province.
Under the Official Languages Act, the Treasury Board is responsible for the general direction and coordination of government policies and programs relating to the implementation of those parts of the act that deal with: communications with and services to the public (Part IV); language of work in federal institutions (Part V); and participation of English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians in the federal public service (Part VI).
These powers are exercised by the secretariat, which establishes and interprets official languages policies, directives and regulations and ensures that federal institutions comply with them.
That is why, in my mandate letter, the Prime Minister indicated that I must continue to ensure that Canadians in all regions of the country can receive services from federal institutions in the official language of their choice, no matter where they are in the country.
He also asked me to support the Minister of Official Languages in fully implementing measures outlined in the white paper, English and French: Towards a Substantive Equality of Official Languages in Canada that are related to the public service. As you know, the white paper was released in February 2021, and it outlines a series of legislative, regulatory and administrative changes affecting Canada’s official languages regime.
Mr. Chair, on June 15 of last year, the government introduced amendments to strengthen the Official Languages Act in the form of Bill C-32, An Act for the Substantive Equality of French and English and the Strengthening of the Official Languages Act. However, this bill died on the Order Paper when the last election was called. As a result, the new government has committed to reintroducing a bill to modernize the Official Languages Act.
The fact is that the original Official Languages Act was passed more than 50 years ago, long before the digital age, and it needs to be updated to address the needs and concerns of the various language communities across our country and to reflect the realities of the 21st century with respect to official languages in today’s Canada. By doing so now, with a real commitment, we’re ensuring that all federal institutions can take steps to strengthen the vitality of our anglophone and francophone minority communities, and to promote and protect the equality of our two official languages.
[English]
A case in point is Canada’s new Official Languages (Communications with and Services to the Public) Regulations. These new regulations are an important step forward for inclusion. When determining significant demand at a federal office, we will go beyond considering someone’s first language. Anyone who uses a minority official language at home will be considered when calculating the demand for services. This means that for the first time, bilingual families and immigrants are included in our calculation.
Equally as important, federal offices in the vicinity of the 900 minority-language schools across the country will have to offer their services in both English and French. Once the linguistic data from last year’s census are available, we will apply the new regulations to the approximately 10,000 federal offices where this applies. We expect that around 700 offices that are currently unilingual will become bilingual. This is an important step in raising the bilingual federal presence across the country.
The white paper called to reinforce Treasury Board-led monitoring of federal institutions’ compliance. That will allow us to make further progress in fostering a workplace that supports the use of both English and French across the public service. That enhances services to Canadians in both official languages. It also helps ensure employees can continue to work in the official language of their choice regardless of where they are working from.
As our new legislation modernizing the Official Languages Act is now on the Notice Paper, it is protected by parliamentary privilege, so unfortunately I can’t speak to it at this time. However, I look forward to sharing the contents of the bill as soon as it is tabled in the House of Commons.
In strengthening Canada’s official languages law, we’re building on a solid foundation.
Now, the president’s Annual Report on Official Languages to Parliament shows that we continue to make progress in key areas. For example, the capacity of the public service to provide bilingual services has increased year over year. There are also more bilingual supervisory positions, more bilingual incumbents who meet the language requirements of their position and more positions that require a superior level of bilingualism.
Further, the 2019-20 edition of the report shows a slight increase in the institution’s overall compliance with policy requirements compared with the previous year. There was, however, a slight drop in compliance for the language of work requirements, such as access to work documents and employees’ perception that senior management interacts with them in both official languages.
So, Mr. Chair, there is progress but we still have more work to do.
This decade has had an incredibly difficult start, but this is also the moment to advance a more resilient, inclusive and stronger country for everyone. To do that, all Canadians — French, English, Black, Indigenous or racialized individuals, members of the LGBTQ2 community and persons with disabilities — in every region of the country need to see themselves reflected in their government’s priorities and work. Supporting and championing our official languages, and the openness and respect for differences that grows from that, helps us do just that.
Thank you for hearing me and I would now be pleased to answer any questions you might have. Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chair: We will now proceed to questions from the senators. Colleagues, I would ask that you use the “raise hand” feature in Zoom to ask for the floor. Those who are present in person can let the clerk know they want to speak.
Colleagues, being aware of the time ahead and of the interest of the members in the minister’s remarks, I suggest that, for the first round, each senator be allowed five minutes, including question and answer. If time permits, we will have a second round.
Senator Poirier: Thank you for being with us this evening, Madam Minister. We appreciate hearing from someone who can answer our questions.
My question is about your government’s agreement with the provinces on child care. This agreement does not include a proportionate number of child care spaces for francophone minority communities. In this context, we could inevitably find ourselves in a situation where the province decides to use the funds for unilingual anglophone spaces at the expense of francophone spaces. This could result in the cost of child care being higher for francophones. According to Commissioner Raymond Théberge, this is another example where the needs of francophone minority communities have not been taken into account, as required under Part VII.
Madam Minister, why did you not include language clauses to ensure that francophone minority communities receive their fair share?
Ms. Fortier: First, I’d like to thank you for your question. As we know, for quite some time, not only the francophone communities, but also the anglophone minority communities have been working very hard to collaborate with the federal government on equity and access to child care services in the minority language. As you know, and as you mentioned, the government has signed agreements with almost all the provinces. Unfortunately, I’m not yet pleased to say that this is the case with Ontario. However, the agreements contain certain provisions to ensure that the representation and recognition of francophone minority communities outside Quebec are taken into account. This is also the case in agreements with the Quebec government to ensure child care spaces for anglophone communities.
So this recognition is part of the agreements, although there is still work to be done. I know that my colleague Minister Gould is very concerned about this issue and will continue to work with the provinces and territories to ensure that official language minority communities have their fair share of representation in terms of child care services, either in French or English, depending on the province.
Senator Poirier: Thank you. I hope they will respect the official language minority communities.
Here’s my second question: Your government seems reluctant to make the Treasury Board fully responsible for coordinating the legislation. Could you tell us why your government is reluctant to give the Treasury Board full responsibility for coordinating the legislation?
Ms. Fortier: As you heard me say at the end of my presentation, I can’t wait until we can introduce the next bill.
I will refer you back to the white paper. I feel it shows that the government has understood the need to give the Treasury Board more responsibility. As a Franco-Ontarian, given that I’m familiar with the system across the country and I know that official languages must always be strengthened in government, I look forward to seeing how we move forward. It’s true that the Treasury Board needs to play a bigger role. I think that’s been very well laid out in the white paper. So let’s hope that is included in the bill to be tabled shortly.
Senator Poirier: We hope so and we look forward to seeing it. Thank you, Madam Minister.
Senator Gagné: Good evening, Madam Minister, and welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. It’s good to see you again. Welcome also to Ms. Laroche and Mr. Quell.
Two weeks ago, we welcomed the Commissioner of Official Languages to discuss his office’s report. There appears to be a discrepancy between the results presented in your annual report and those contained in the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages report.
According to the Treasury Board Secretariat’s report, federal institutions believe that they are performing well with respect to the active provision of services in person. However, according to the commissioner’s report, this is one of the weak links.
Does the fact that the results are self-assessments raise questions about the objectivity of the performance evaluation presented in the Treasury Board Secretariat’s report?
Ms. Fortier: First, I’m very happy to see you again today. I wish I could have been with you in person. You have all contributed so much to the community, as have I. It’s a pleasure to have this discussion.
As you know, the Treasury Board Secretariat always wants to do better. I believe there is always room for improvement in the services it provides across the country.
Reports allow us to see just what commitments we can make to improve the departments’ services and how they deliver them. During COVID-19, there were issues with the question of crisis and emergency situations. We got the message, we understand, and we’re putting processes in place to make things better and to comply with the law, because that’s the goal. We’re truly committed to ensuring that communications are of equal quality in both official languages at all times. Therefore, we will continue to make those efforts.
Senator Gagné: What kind of approach do you take when you receive complaints and have to deal with performance issues when service has been lacking? What kind of follow-up do you do in those cases?
Ms. Fortier: Thank you for the question. I know that my colleagues here with me are more knowledgeable regarding the processes within departments. I will give some concrete examples, but one example I know of is that the employee surveys we do every year give us a sense of how services are being delivered.
In addition, meetings are held with champions and deputy ministers to discuss how we can improve the services provided.
To make sure you have more concrete examples, I will ask Mr. Quell or Ms. Laroche to share some with you.
Mireille Laroche, Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat: I’m very pleased to be here. I’m going to start and then I will ask my colleague Mr. Quell to continue. Thank you very much for the question.
When we evaluate and follow up with departments, we really coach them. We help them formulate their answers and we ask for proof. It’s not just based on a simple self-assessment, we need to have supporting evidence to be sure we are thorough enough and we truly understand their reality.
As the minister mentioned, people have many conversations and networks within the public service itself to share best practices, to ensure that we have a good understanding of what’s required and we’re fully meeting our obligations.
Carsten Quell, Executive Director, Official Languages Centre of Excellence, Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer (Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat): We have a network of 200 institutions, with whom we hold discussions on a regular basis. We look at their results with them after the figures are published. As the annual report shows, some results are more commendable than others. We actually use the good performance in certain institutions to make sure that the others are aware of it.
If I may add one thing, the Public Service Employee Survey allows us to do some “triangulation” to see whether the results that the institutions provide us are valid. When we compare them, we see that the institutions are very well aware of their own performance.
Overall, I would say that the process produces quite good results.
Ms. Fortier: To wrap up, Senator Gagné, you know that the commissioner also has a role in providing us with his reports. His recommendations give us another point of view as we determine how to improve.
I hope we have answered your question.
Senator Gagné: Thank you very much.
Senator Moncion: Good evening, Madam Minister. I am very happy to see you again.
Let’s talk about postsecondary education. We see a number of shortcomings in the field in terms of the federal government’s spending power under Part VII of the Official Languages Act. I am specifically referring to the lack of any accountability and responsibility that the provinces have to the central administrations of bilingual colleges and universities. Postsecondary educational institutions that serve official language minority communities are suffering from chronic underfunding in terms of the funds provided by your government for official languages.
Could you talk about the possibility of your government providing funds directly to educational institutions that serve official language minority communities instead of going through the provinces and territories?
Ms. Fortier: Thank you very much for your question. I am very happy to see you.
As you know, the federal government has played a major role in working with the provinces and territories to provide resources for postsecondary education across the country.
You just have to look at the recent agreement in Ontario to fund l’Université de l’Ontario français. For the first time, the federal government will be investing for the first four years. The province will invest for the four years thereafter. That result came through negotiations: The Government of Ontario will be investing, but it will have to reimburse the federal government if it chooses not to continue to do so.
This shows that the federal government sometimes finds creative ways to ensure that the benefits go to postsecondary education in French, or in both languages.
I am also thinking about the assistance we have provided to other institutions, so that they can organize and coordinate themselves better, with a view to ensuring that they provide francophones or anglophones in minority situations with the postsecondary education they need.
As you know, the federal government is planning a lot of investment in the Action Plan for Official Languages. Recently, in Budget 2021, this includes about $158 million to increase investments in postsecondary education, if I’m not mistaken. We are going to continue to make that type of investment. Perhaps I should have said $80 million per year.
You know, we are making really major decisions to ensure that we support postsecondary education. I think that my colleague Minister Petitpas Taylor is still in discussions with organizations like ACUFC, the Association des collèges et des universités de la francophonie canadienne, to see how we can respond to the difficult situations that some institutions all across the country are experiencing. We are talking particularly about Laurentian University and the Campus Saint-Jean in Alberta. As a member of Parliament, I am very interested in this topic, and I will make sure that strong programs in French and English exist all across the country. I will continue to work with my colleague to support postsecondary education all across the country.
Senator Moncion: I have conversations with the presidents of various universities in minority settings.
One of the problems they talk about with the additional funding from the federal government is that the funding is project-based. Because their resources are so precarious, they have a lot of difficulties and do not take the time to prepare projects to try and obtain additional funding. It’s too complicated. How could the government help those institutions to have access to the funding with greater ease and fewer constraints?
In Moncton, they have just had to drastically eliminate positions in order to be able to operate as an autonomous university. You hear the same story everywhere. This project‑based funding is not currently meeting the needs of the universities.
Ms. Fortier: It’s the same for colleges. We have heard that. The conversation is still going on. I would tell you that, in the platform that the Liberals presented, we promised to increase funding for postsecondary institutions permanently. Perhaps we need a conversation about the ways in which we can expedite the work of the universities and the colleges across the country that have access to that funding.
It is something that can be explored and studied more. I feel that that should be done with Minister Petitpas Taylor. I believe that you are going to be meeting with her shortly, so it would be a good question to ask. It is something that needs to be considered further. Postsecondary institutions must be able to continue to provide their programs with no problems or obstacles at the outset.
Senator Moncion: It seems that they have to go through the provinces. Thank you.
Senator Mégie: Good evening, Madam Minister. I’m happy to see you with us this evening. I will follow the lead of Senator Moncion and talk about funding for postsecondary schools. In an article in Le Devoir on February 26, we read about a drastic and systematic refusal to accept French-speaking students registered in programs, students coming mostly from French-speaking Africa. The systematic refusal comes when the students fill out their applications for study permits to come to Canada. The conclusion is that a program called Chinook rejects them automatically, to the extent that the program seems to be discriminatory in its effect. How do you explain that Canada’s Treasury Board Secretariat funded such a program, because it seems that the problem with Chinook was already known?
Ms. Fortier: I’m happy to see you again Senator Mégie. I look forward to seeing you in person at the events where we usually meet in the region. Your question is a very important one. I feel that it will need more study. But yes, the situation at the moment is that postsecondary education institutions are encountering obstacles that are preventing them from welcoming more international students.
I even recall a meeting I had with President Lise Bourgeois last week, a week I spent in my constituency. A number of students are interested in coming to the Collège La Cité and it is taking time for them to get visas and complete all the steps. Clearly, questions have to be asked. Yes, there was the article in Le Devoir, but my colleague Minister Fraser, working with other members of cabinet, including myself, will look at the issue some more, because we have to see how we can expedite access to bilingual and French postsecondary programs all over the country, including in my constituency at the Collège La Cité.
Unfortunately, I have no solution today, but we will be studying the situation very closely.
Senator Mégie: Thank you. Let me change the subject. We have been talking about bilingualism in all federal organizations. But at Canadian airports, we still see a lack of access to bilingual staff, especially for border control officers. Should we broaden the scope of the white paper to include companies working with the public in federal spaces like airports?
Ms. Fortier: You are asking some very good questions. I know that the white paper revealed some of the points you mentioned. I think that the government has identified some ideas for improving bilingual services across the country, including services at airports. I would say that we have to look at what the white paper proposed after the consultations that were held. That was when Minister Joly presented the white paper. We may well see some solutions in the near future.
Senator Mégie: Thank you very much.
Senator Clement: Good evening to you and your colleagues, Madam Minister. My question is about the pandemic and the way in which the pandemic has affected the workplace. During the pandemic, we have become very keen on telework and how useful it is, and we have seen that access to online services has increased. How do you see all that coming together, including any risks in terms of the respect for the official languages?
If there are risks, what are the possible solutions? Have you taken an interest in issues like that? Also, is the concept of designated bilingual regions obsolete, now that things are happening much more virtually?
Ms. Fortier: I am happy to see you in that chair, Senator Clement. The last time we crossed paths, you were still Mayor of Cornwall. Congratulations on your appointment. You are right to say that the pandemic has transformed not only the public service, but also the services that we provide to Canadians.
We want to provide Canadians with the best possible services, and, even during the pandemic, every public servant in every department has done an excellent job. We must recognize that. Clearly, in some situations, we had to be nimble, to adapt, and to provide some services more quickly. The same applies to the official languages.
Along the way, we considered ways to improve things in the short term. We are now recognizing that, while we have been living in the pandemic for two years, we must now live with the pandemic. The services provided by the public service were transformed in order to serve Canadians better.
The future of the work, the future of the public service, means that we will have to continue providing services to Canadians in both official languages. We are presently examining different ways of improving the services we provide. I will ask my colleagues from the Treasury Board Secretariat to explain in more detail some of the things that have been done to date.
Ms. Laroche: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Madam Minister.
I would like to provide some specifics before my colleague Mr. Quell makes his comments.
As the minister mentioned, we had to adapt very quickly to our new reality. That presented new challenges, but it also gave us some wonderful opportunities to modernize the way in which we do things. For example, with language training, we had to move quite quickly to a model that was much more online, much more virtual.
Since we were talking about the white paper, you will probably recall that one of its recommendations was to update the language-training framework in the federal government. We are responsible for that.
Accordingly, we are going to modernize our way of working in order to accommodate our new reality. This may involve work in person or virtually, in order to ensure that our employees and their supervisors have the tools they need to provide the services that Canadians need and to which they are entitled. That is one of our priorities, as is ensuring that language training meets the needs of groups seeking equity.
Mr. Quell: The pandemic has told us a lot about the way in which the federal government can better respond to the needs of the public servants. The commissioner made some observations when the pandemic began. The Treasury Board Secretariat of Canada reacted quite quickly to meet with representatives of federal institutions and to issue reminders, especially to deputy ministers.
The 2020 Public Service Employee Survey also contained a question about the way in which public servants gained information on the pandemic from their institutions. According to the survey, more than nine employees out of every ten, anglophones and francophones alike, felt that they had access to information in both official languages.
Senator Clement: I would like to ask one more question, if I have the time.
The Chair: If you are quick, you can go ahead, senator.
Senator Clement: Do you have any comments about the future of the concept of designated bilingual regions?
Ms. Fortier: We are always going to abide by one guiding principle: to ensure that Canadians are served in both official languages in designated regions, and perhaps even more widely. That is an ongoing part of our analysis.
Senator Clement: Thank you.
Senator Dagenais: Madam Minister, I have been listening to you for some time and I find it most troubling that, when we examine the situation, recommendations and political intentions unfortunately do not always lead to results. It is almost as if linguistic duality is not feasible. Often, fine words from politicians lead nowhere.
So, in the view of the current government, is bilingualism possible from coast to coast, or does it only matter to francophones in Quebec and a few regional francophone communities around the country?
Ms. Fortier: Thank you very much, Senator Dagenais. It is good to see you.
Since 2015, the government’s actions and efforts have been ensuring that all institutions offer better services in both official languages. We are working hard to improve the outcomes everywhere in the country, with the help of civil society, which is also working very hard to serve the communities.
We have acted in many ways and we will continue to do so. I very much look forward to the Official Languages Act being modernized after 50 years. We are doing very important work, as is the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. You have worked very hard to propose an approach to the government; communities and various stakeholders have also contributed. We will see the culmination of those efforts very soon as we go about the process of modernizing and then enacting the Official Languages Act.
Senator Dagenais: I have a second question for you. Do you agree with the requests from the Commissioner of Official Languages, who is seeking the power to impose financial penalties on companies that do not comply with the requirements of the act, such as Air Canada?
Ms. Fortier: We have listened to the commissioner. Minister Petitpas Taylor and I had the honour of meeting him. The commissioner has our sympathetic ear. He has shared with us his comments on how he can improve his role as commissioner.
Based on the exercise we did as a result of the white paper, I hope that we will be able to adjust the commissioner’s powers in the bill to modernize the Official Languages Act. I must stop at that point, because I cannot share with you the things we intend to do.
Senator Dagenais: Thank you, Madam Minister. I will keep one question for the second round.
Senator Mockler: Madam Minister, I, too, want to welcome you to the committee.
I am going to continue with Senator Dagenais’s line of questioning. Can you tell the committee what steps the government will be taking next to address the numerous concerns raised by both communities from coast to coast to coast? How much consideration do those at the helm of the most important federal institutions give official languages?
I realize you pay close attention to this, but some senior officials fail to understand the importance they are supposed to give official languages inside their own institutions. Do they need to be fluent in English and in French to hold the positions they do? I’m eager to hear your comments on that.
Ms. Fortier: Are you referring to Air Canada, specifically?
Senator Mockler: I’m referring to public servants government-wide.
Ms. Fortier: Very good. I wanted to make sure you were talking about federal institutions within the government.
I’m an ardent supporter of official languages, and, in my role, I want to find solutions so that we can offer Canadians the best possible service. That is our guiding principle. Clearly, we have a ways to go when it comes to giving deputy heads in the various federal institutions the support they need to ensure they can provide that service. I work closely with my colleagues at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat to see how we can support those deputy heads to provide the best possible service in both official languages. We also need to continue training deputy heads and increasing the number of public servants who can provide service in both official languages.
That is why, in my mandate letter, I was tasked with continuing to provide training. That is one of the tools we use — language training. My mandate letter sets out our commitment to make that language training available to new graduates and international students in order to provide better service within the government. We will always find other ways to increase the number of deputy heads who can provide the service. Within the government, though, we also have to support our public service, so that it can provide more services in both official languages.
Senator Mockler: I have a question about that. What work still needs to be done, or should be done, to ensure executives understand the importance of both official languages?
Ms. Fortier: As you know, every deputy minister has an obligation to promote the objectives of the Official Languages Act by encouraging the use of both official languages within their institution. They need support to do that. We have to help them, so, taking into account the future of work, the future of the public service and the way it will serve Canadians, it is important for us to figure out how we can put other measures in place to help them.
Senator Mockler: I have one last question.
The Chair: Go ahead.
Senator Mockler: We are still waiting for details, which we will hopefully get when Minister Petitpas Taylor introduces the bill. We are eager to see how the budget-related investments are going to be used. A total of $2.3 million was allocated in Budget 2021, and $16 million was earmarked in the Economic and Fiscal Update 2021, released in December 2021. The funding applies to the Department of Canadian Heritage, the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat and the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, as well as the Department of Citizenship and Immigration for francophone immigration. Can you give us more information on how the $2.3 million and $16 million will be spent and on whom?
Ms. Fortier: Thank you. This answer may be too simple, but the money is really for the implementation of the modernized Official Languages Act. The funding will support its implementation.
Senator Mockler: I realize you can’t spoil anything, but will we find out when the bill is brought forward tomorrow?
Ms. Fortier: That’s a nice try, senator. My answer isn’t exactly simple or simplistic, because this is a very sizable investment and we want to ensure it is meaningful. I want to highlight all the work that was done, and that includes your work, senators, as members of the Official Languages Committee. In light of all the effort we have put forth leading up to the day we bring forward the bill to modernize the Official Languages Act, I think everyone should feel a sense of pride in seeing how far we’ve come.
Senator Mockler: We will be watching.
Ms. Fortier: I’m glad.
The Chair: Thank you. I, too, have a few questions, if you don’t mind. I want to discuss the senior ranks of the public service. The vast majority of federal institutions claim to establish the language requirements of bilingual positions objectively, as per section 91 of the act, and to recruit, for the most part, candidates who are already bilingual at the time of their appointment. However, a 2020 report by the Commissioner of Official Languages revealed systematic and systemic shortcomings on that front. Have you noticed any improvement when it comes to the problems around staffing bilingual positions and evaluating the language requirements of positions in the federal public service? Can you tell us more about the interdepartmental working group created by the Treasury Board to address these issues? My last question is a follow-up. As we all know, those at the top should exemplify best practices. Don’t you think deputy ministers should also have to be bilingual when they are appointed?
Ms. Fortier: This may be something you didn’t know, but probably not, Senator Cormier, since you have studied official languages matters so extensively. Assistant deputy minister positions are bilingual positions. What that means is that, as people continue to move up the ranks of government, deputy ministers were assistant deputy ministers first. That’s one way we see senior executives contributing to official languages and having an opportunity to work in both official languages. I’m going to ask my colleague Mr. Quell to jump in. I’m sure he can provide additional information that will answer your question.
Mr. Quell: It’s important to understand that the objective of section 91 of the act is to ensure that positions are identified fairly and equitably. For instance, when bilingualism is not required to perform the duties of a position, it ought to be designated as unilingual. Conversely, institutions have to ensure that positions requiring the use of both official languages are identified as bilingual. For the sake of simplicity, think of a call centre. Federal institutions are required to have bilingual capacity. An institution doesn’t have to identify, nor should it identify, too many bilingual positions, if there are job opportunities for individuals who can do the work in one official language or the other. For example, if a client calls the centre and it’s clear that a unilingual agent can take the call because the caller made the request in that language, the call can be transferred to that agent. Institutions still have to have a bilingual workforce, which means certain positions are designated as bilingual. In our conversations with the commissioner’s office, one of the things we talk about is the proper identification of positions as unilingual French, unilingual English and bilingual. The rules around the identification of positions have to be respected so that all Canadians have an opportunity to pursue a career in the public service.
The Chair: Thank you for that answer. We’re almost out of time, with just under two minutes left. I have one last question, minister. Let’s say the Treasury Board became the central agency with the leading role in implementing the Official Languages Act and you were responsible for setting up that central agency. What are the main challenges you think you would face in that scenario?
Ms. Fortier: I really appreciate your question. I know myself, and I am guided by a specific principle: I am always looking to improve the standing of official languages all over the country. As I mentioned earlier, a recommendation in the white paper is that the Treasury Board play a bigger role when the time comes, so that is a possibility. It would have to be done quickly. The Treasury Board has all the tools and resources needed to carry out an in-depth examination. I am eager for the bill to be brought forward and discussed, because, then, I think we can definitely have conversations that will better answer your question.
The Chair: That concludes our conversation, Madam Minister. Thank you for your answers. Thank you, as well, to Ms. Laroche and Mr. Quell for contributing to our discussion this evening. I am certain we will have an opportunity to hear from you again in another context — soon, I hope.
That concludes this evening’s meeting, honourable senators. Thank you —
Ms. Fortier: Sorry to cut you off, Mr. Chair, but I just received more information in response to the question about international students. If I may, I can provide a clearer answer now.
I wanted to let committee members know that the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration is currently studying the recruitment and acceptance rates of foreign students. That could probably inform the solution in terms of the situation we were discussing earlier.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Madam Minister. Thank you to all the members of the committee and to the staff who make our meetings possible.
I want to remind committee members that Minister Petitpas Taylor will be giving a briefing on the new bill to modernize the Official Languages Act tomorrow afternoon. We will be there, of course.
That brings our meeting to an end. Meeting adjourned.
(The committee adjourned.)