THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON BANKING, COMMERCE AND THE ECONOMY
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 25, 2025
The Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy met this day at 2:30 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Sara Gajic, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Varone. Do you have a nomination?
Senator Varone: Yes. I would be happy to move that the Honourable Senator Gignac take the chair of this committee.
Ms. Gajic: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Varone that the Honourable Senator Gignac do take the chair of the committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Gajic: Carried. I invite the Honourable Senator Gignac to take the chair.
Senator Clément Gignac (Chair) in the chair
[Translation]
The Chair: Thank you, dear colleagues, for your confidence. It is an honour to be chosen as chair of this important Senate committee. Let us now proceed with the election of the deputy chair.
I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any nominations?
[English]
Senator Fridhandler: I nominate Senator Toni Varone as deputy chair of the committee.
[Translation]
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Fridhandler moved:
That the Honourable Senator Varone be deputy chair of this committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. Congratulations, Senator Varone.
We now have a few routine motions to adopt. The first motion is as follows:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and two other members of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultations;
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Do I have a mover for the motion?
Senator Ringuette: I would like to propose an amendment to the motion. I move that the second paragraph be replaced by the following:
That the subcommittee be responsible for considering and consulting the committee with respect to its agenda, inviting witnesses and scheduling hearings.
If I may, I would also add that this is in the interest of encouraging greater cooperation and transparency between the committee and all of its members. I hope everyone will accept this amendment as it is made in good faith.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Ringuette. I intend to do that. I see no objection to putting it into writing if my colleagues are in agreement. Could you please repeat the amendment?
Senator Ringuette: Would you like me to say it in English this time?
[English]
The Chair: It’s up to you.
Senator Ringuette: The proposed amendment would read as follows:
That the subcommittee be responsible for considering and consulting with the committee with respect to its agenda to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Thank you.
Senator Pupatello: I would like to know the context of the amendment. There probably is a history of something related to this committee and the behaviour of the past that would cause the request for this amendment.
Senator Ringuette: Well, we’ve had problems in this committee in the past, but this has been an ongoing issue since 2015-16. It is an effort to clarify the workings of the steering committee and that it consults with all senators with regard to the agenda, witnesses and the hearings that we will have. It is an issue to foster collaboration and transparency. I think it will be for the greater good of each senator within the committee and, also, in regards to steering. It is a very positive amendment, and I am looking for all of you to approve it.
Senator Pupatello: Thank you, chair. Is it typical that you would have a steering committee where the majority of the opinion ends up ruling in terms of the level and number and choice of witnesses? I can see how you have to engage the steering committee to do the bulk of the work for you as a committee. You don’t want to hamstring them so that they can’t do their work because you are constantly consulting with us. Do we have veto rights when I don’t agree with your witness list? Then do I get to say, “No, you’re not doing that”? That’s where I can see some historical activity may have been going on where you want to be more open.
I certainly take your point. I just don’t want it to hamstring the work of the steering committee, but I would expect we would have a say in submitting names and being considered — which is different from veto rights. But you are looking for consideration and input. Correct?
Senator Ringuette: First of all, any subcommittee — and steering is a subcommittee — has to report. This is a step before that. It is a step to say, “Well, talk with all the members with regard to putting forth the agenda and the list of witnesses, depending on the issues,” and so forth. I believe it will also help a lot to eliminate some issues that can happen.
[Translation]
The Chair: I will let Senator Varone speak and will speak after him.
[English]
Senator Varone: Thank you, Senator Pupatello. I view it as part of our evolution toward best practices. That’s all we wanted to achieve. It’s as transparent as it can be. We’re looking for, quite possibly, a new beginning. That’s how I view it and why I support it.
[Translation]
The Chair: My reaction is the following: I am open, regardless. I would also like to remind you, perhaps for Senator Pupatello, that the steering committee operates by consensus. It is always possible for the committee to vote on decisions made by the steering committee. It is always possible to say something.
I am not here to judge the way this committee has been chaired in recent years. Each chair has their own style for any given committee. Some senators are models. Senator Dean was a model for me at the Standing Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs. Personally, my preference is for consultation and transparency. I have the honour of serving as voluntary chair of the board of the Collège des administrateurs de sociétés at Laval University. Governance and transparency are very important to me.
If it is the pleasure of the committee to make this change, I see no problem with that. If we do not, I can tell you that I intend to consult the committee extensively in any event.
Does someone wish to second the motion?
[English]
Senator Pupatello: I’ll make the motion with the amendment, because you didn’t call the —
Senator Ringuette: We have to adopt the amendment and then the entire motion.
[Translation]
The Chair: Senator Ringuette moved that the paragraph in motion 3 be amended.
Actually, we will not proceed with the adoption of motion 3. We will consider the other motions.
We have a minor constraint in that we have to finish by 2:30 in order to draft it properly and then vote on it.
So we will get back to you.
Senator Ringuette: It is written in both languages.
The Chair: Perfect. We will take a few more moments.
Can we continue and return to motion 3?
[English]
Is it possible for us to move on and we’ll come back to the amendment?
[Translation]
Let us proceed then with motion 4 and we will come back to it.
[English]
Are you comfortable with that? Okay.
[Translation]
Motion 4 is as follows:
That the committee publish its proceedings.
Does someone wish to move the motion?
Senator Dean: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Dean moved that the committee publish its proceedings.
Motion 5 pertains to the research staff:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of experts as may be required by the work of the committee;
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports.
Do I have a mover for the motion?
Senator McBean: I so move.
[English]
Senator Fridhandler: We haven’t voted on motion 4, which we should do before we vote on motion 5 —
[Translation]
The Chair: I forgot to ask whether the motion was adopted.
[English]
Sorry about that.
Senator Fridhandler: We’ll keep you in order.
The Chair: Yes, you are right. I’m the new kid on the block for this one.
[Translation]
Honourable senators, is it your pleasure to adopt motion 4?
Some hon. senators: Okay.
The Chair: Motion 4 is adopted.
Senator McBean moved motion 5. Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare the motion adopted.
I would like to introduce the analysts from the Library of Parliament. I invite Adriane Yong and Brett Howard to approach.
Adriane Yong is originally from Toronto. She was trained as a lawyer and has been an analyst for Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy for 15 years.
Brett Howard is originally from Hamilton. She is an economist by training—we all have our shortcomings—and has been an analyst with the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy for 12 years.
Welcome, ladies. Thank you for being here.
We can go back to the amendment to motion 3.
The amended version of motion 3 is as follows:
That the subcommittee be empowered to consider and consult the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Here is the initial version again:
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee.
That was changed to say that the subcommittee is responsible for considering and consulting the committee regarding the change.
Do I have a mover for the amendment?
Senator Ringuette: I moved the amendment.
[English]
Senator Varone: I didn’t hear the words “considering and consulting” which was part of the original. Did we say that? Okay.
[Translation]
The Chair: Senator Ringuette proposed the amendment. Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare the amendment adopted.
Is motion 3 as amended adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare motion 3 adopted.
We are now at motion 6. I will read it out to you:
That, pursuant to section 6(1), chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee.
That, pursuant to section 7(1), chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee;
That, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Do I have a mover for motion 6?
Senator Pupatello: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Pupatello moved that motion 6 be adopted.
Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare motion 6 adopted.
Motion 7 is as follows:
That the committee authorize the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Do I have a mover for the motion?
Senator Ringuette: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Ringuette moved that the motion be adopted.
Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare motion 7 adopted.
Motion 8 pertains to the designation of members travelling on committee business.
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the committee is on “official business” for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1988;
consider any member of the committee to be on “official business” if that member is (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee;
That the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Do I have a mover for motion 8?
Senator Pupatello: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Pupatello moved that motion 8 be adopted.
Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare motion 8 adopted.
Motion 9 pertains to witness expenses and reads as follows:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable expenses related to the appearance of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the second organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
Do I have a mover for the motion?
Senator Dean: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Dean proposed that motion 9 be adopted.
Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare the motion adopted.
Motion 10 pertains to communications:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communications officers assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings, at its discretion.
Do I have a mover for motion 10?
Senator Varone: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Varone moved that motion 10 be adopted.
Is the motion adopted?
Some hon. senators: Yes.
The Chair: I declare the motion adopted.
The communications officer assigned to our committee is Chelsea DeFazio. Welcome. Chelsea has been with the Senate Communications, Broadcasting and Publications Directorate for two and a half years, after starting on the Senate’s youth outreach team. In September 2024, she became a communications officer for the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy. She will be returning as the communications officer this session. She looks forward to contributing to the promotion of the committee’s important work.
Colleagues, this brings us to the final item before adjournment: other business. Please note that our time slot for committee meetings is as follows:
[English]
It’s on Wednesday at 4:15 p.m. and on Thursday at 11:30 a.m. It is basically the same as the last session.
Senator Ringuette: A government motion was passed in the Senate that on Thursday we sit at 1:30 p.m., and that motion also said that the committee would therefore sit 15 minutes earlier — if my memory is correct. So we will be sitting at 11:15 a.m. to 1:15 p.m.
The Chair: You are right.
Senator Ringuette: Perhaps the clerk could look into this and confirm that?
The Chair: Yes.
Ms. Gajic: Thanks for raising that, senator. I understand that the leaders will be reconfirming the schedule in late summer, and that will be recirculated for the fall.
Senator Ringuette: Will it be agreed and passed in the Senate?
Ms. Gajic: I don’t want to speak to the exact wording of the motion off the top of my head.
The Chair: Okay. It is to be confirmed, but it is somewhere on Thursday at 11:15 a.m. or 11:30 a.m., but stay tuned. It will be determined when we are back in September.
It sounds like we are now close to the end of the special session.
This is my first experience with our clerk Sara Gajic, but it is my last experience as well. I understand that you will not be here next September. You have National Finance Committee to take care of. So we will see you there. However, we have a new clerk, although it is not confirmed yet. So, a new clerk will be confirmed in September. Thank you for what you have done, and good luck.
See you in September.
(The committee adjourned.)