It’s not up to me as a member of the House of Commons to tell the Senate how to act or how to vote. The Conservative Party did that with the Conservative senators, but we don’t work that way.

You have the freedom to decide what you want to do with Bill C-234. It is common knowledge that my party and I voted against that bill in the House of Commons.

When it comes to the announcement that was made a few wees ago regarding home heating oil, we didn’t apply the carbon tax because there were no other alternatives available. The same parallel can be drawn with agricultural applications. We realized that families who are still heating their homes with oil can’t afford to make the transition to heat pumps, even with the help of the programs that we put in place. These families can’t afford to pay the difference in cost.

That is why we reached an agreement with three provinces to make heat pumps free for that segment of the population. I think the Prime Minister was very clear about the fact that no other exemptions to the carbon tax will be granted.

Of course.

Welcome, minister.

Last week, you said the following about Bill C-234:

 . . . we’ve already excluded 97% of fuels used on farms. Because at the time when we put in place carbon pricing in Canada, the price on pollution, we realized that there was no alternatives . . . .

So the price on pollution in the agricultural sector only applies to 3% of fuels that are being used, where alternative technologies are available.

Farmers were very surprised by this statement, because the 3% doesn’t seem to have any scientific basis, and even if it were accurate, for farmers who use propane to heat their buildings, the carbon tax applies at 100%.

The testimony we heard on Bill C-234 was all pretty similar. There’s no affordable alternative to propane and natural gas, or to gasoline or diesel.

Where did that 3% figure come from? What affordable alternatives do you know about that farmers and scientists don’t know about?

I disagree with your characterization of this question. What you initially quoted is the same thing I said here earlier. It comes as no surprise. I would be pleased to submit the information we used to create carbon pricing and its specific application in the agricultural sector.

Earlier on I listed a series of measures that we introduced, amounting to more than $1.5 billion, to support the agricultural sector’s transition to a low-carbon economy. We are also going to keep working with this sector to help lower its greenhouse gas emissions.

When you throw out a percentage like 3%, you should know where it comes from.

You also said that $500 million was available for upgrading grain dryers.

On June 16, 2021, your colleague Marie-Claude Bibeau, who was Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, announced a $50‑million program for grain dryers. That is quite a big discrepancy.

Did you add one too many zeros to the funding amount for upgrading grain dryers? That is 10 times less money.

Minister, who is telling farmers the truth, you or your colleague Ms. Bibeau?

You know it’s 2023 now. Ms. Bibeau made that statement two years ago. Earlier, I listed a series of measures. I did it in English, I can do it in French: $495 million for research, development and adoption of clean technologies in the agricultural sector; $12 million to reduce methane emissions in the beef sector; $670 million to support the adoption of greenhouse gas emission reduction practices on farms.

These are some, not all, of the measures we’ve put in place to help farmers reduce the impact of greenhouse gas emissions in this sector.

Minister, you have said several times there will be no more exemptions or carve-outs to the carbon tax as long as you are the environment minister. The majority of Canadians — and, indeed, the majority of the premiers of our provinces — want the carve‑out that Bill C-234 brings.

Minister, will you keep your promise and resign if Bill C-234 is passed in its original form? Isn’t that, minister, why you are calling senators to talk against this bill — because you’ve threatened to quit if it passes? Is your job more important to you, minister, than the livelihood of Canadian farmers and affordable food for Canadian families?

There are a lot of questions in your question, senator.

I haven’t said I would be resigning. The Prime Minister of Canada has also said that there would be no exemption to carbon pricing in this country.

We have, indeed, fought two federal elections — in 2019 and 2021 — where Canadians had the opportunity to decide what they wanted, and twice they decided that they supported carbon pricing.

Well, in fact, in both of those elections, the Conservatives got considerably more of the popular vote than the Liberals did, so I wouldn’t quite take that as solace. You got a minority government last time, minister. You must really take Canadians for fools, minister, on this and many other issues.

You made a clear promise: no more carve-outs as long as you’re the environment minister, and that’s why you’re desperate to avoid Bill C-234 becoming law.

You said in a recent interview, “I’m confident that there will be no more exemptions to carbon pricing.”

And then you say you don’t whip. Why would you say that if you don’t already know how senators are going to vote on this bill?

I would point out, senator, that in 2019 or 2021, the majority of members of Parliament who were elected to the House of Commons are from parties who believe in climate change, which the Conservative Party of Canada doesn’t even have as an official position.

Answer the question.

You spoke about the elections, senator, and I’m answering your question on the election.

The majority of parties present in the House of Commons and the majority of MPs believe we should be fighting climate change and support putting a price on pollution.