Point of Order
September 17, 2024
Your Honour, I wonder if I might raise a point of order now that we have completed Question Period on our first day back after the summer break.
I would like to note that on many occasions today, senators asking questions and Senator Gold responding to those questions had our clerk standing and noting that the time was up, but — and I’m very grateful for this — the senators were all allowed to complete what they had to say. It only took a few seconds longer than the time period.
I don’t know if their microphones were cut off at the points when the clerk stood. I would like to have that clarified, please.
I’m raising it as a point here largely because, as our new colleagues will soon learn, unaffiliated senators operate under a range of discriminatory practices in this chamber, one of them being that we have far fewer opportunities to speak. One of the opportunities is during Question Period.
On a number of occasions before the summer break, my questions were cut off; the mic was cut off. Senator Dasko’s research and that of others has demonstrated there is an increased trust and — as measured by a range of surveys — an increased interest in the Senate of Canada from the public in this country. I have heard from a number of people who care very much about the human rights issues I typically address in my questions — and about being able to hear the questions and responses.
My request and my point of order are for clarification on cutting off my and other senators’ mics — as was the practice up to the summer break but did not appear to be today — so that we all, including those who join us by watching, know what degree of information will be allowed to be shared while balancing this with overall respect for timely and efficient Question Periods.
Thank you very much, Your Honour.
Thank you for the question and point of order.
I want to clarify that the clerk will usually stand when there are 10 seconds left for the question and then 10 seconds before the end of the period allowed for the answer. There are 60 seconds for the question and 60 seconds for the answer from the Government Representative. Then, for the supplementary question, there are 30 seconds for the question and 30 seconds for the answer. That is just to clarify the clerk will stand 10 seconds before the end of the 60-second or 30-second period.
Thank you for the question. I could certainly clarify again, because I’ve done it more than once before Question Period, as to what the — I would not say the rule — but the understanding or agreement pertaining to questions and answers is, in that there are both 60-second and 30-second questions and answers.
Thank you very much for that explanation, Your Honour. I wonder if you could also at some point — not necessarily now — address the part of my point about cutting off our microphones.
Usually when the Speaker stands, the mic is cut off, because the person is usually asked to sit when the Speaker stands. That is the reason why the mic is cut off.
I rise on a point of order. I was not going to get up, but given Senator McPhedran’s important intervention — and it is the first day back — we noted as well that, notwithstanding the very important statements people gave, two of the statements ran longer than others. We always try to have our statements stay within the time limit. Senator Black had an equally important statement today on a very important subject, and he was within the time frame. Then we noticed that others were allowed to go over that.
So we are requesting, as we have in the past, that either the rules that we all understand are enforced or we change the rules — whatever the will of the Senate is. But we all need to know what those rules are and if they’re going to be enforced; otherwise, we’ll be over all the time, not only with statements but with questions.
I agree that the rules are for three-minute statements. I must admit that I have been quite generous, especially when there’s a tribute to someone in the community who has passed on or regarding a former colleague. I’ve been flexible.
The rules specify three minutes. If you want me to cut everyone off after three minutes, I can do that, but I’d like to have a little leeway as to how I manage the statements.
Further to that point, Your Honour, in my view, that actually muddies the waters. If we’re going to have flexibility, we’ll ask for flexibility in every statement, and that means it’s more time, regardless of what the topic is.
We tried, as I indicated in the example today of Senator Black, who got in all his comments within three minutes. That’s what we’re asking. If you have something to say, and you know your time is three minutes, say it within the three minutes. If it’s going to be longer, that’s a completely different story, or if the rules aren’t going to be enforced, maybe we change the rules.
Thank you for those comments.
I would at least like to make this point. Senator Downe has been here for enough years to know that we have rules on speeches. Some speeches are 15, some 30, some 45 minutes, and he’s very well aware that we’re regularly giving people an extra two minutes or an extra five minutes to finish their speeches. He’s very well aware of that. Now, all of a sudden, something affects him, and all of a sudden we’re going to play by the rules.
And when Senator Downe says all Senate statements are equally important, I take offence to that. Senator Black had an important statement today. I very much supported what Senator Black had to say, but when a colleague passes away, somebody who has been in the Commons for a lot of years, I think that’s a little more important than some statements that we have here celebrating some event. I don’t agree with that, and I agree, Your Honour, that there needs to be some flexibility.
I will be transparent here — maybe I shouldn’t be, Your Honour, but I will be. I took the opportunity, because I had an important statement to make, to call the Speaker, as I have done in the past with other Speakers, and said, “Your Honour, I’m going to be a little bit long; I hope you’re going to allow me a little bit of slack.” And she did. I think we need to give the Speaker that latitude, and if we’re going to try to be, “Absolutely, this is it; we won’t allow anything more,” Senator Downe, trust me, when somebody asks for an extra minute, that will be denied from this chair if that’s the way we want to play this game. There has to be some flexibility allowed in certain speeches. We do it regularly with speeches. Why wouldn’t we do it with statements?
Often the rules are whatever we intend them to be. Those are no rules at all. I have no problem at all with the statement today from Senator Plett. In fact, I read Monte Solberg’s tribute, which was even better, I might say, than yours, Senator Plett, to an outstanding parliamentarian. I have no trouble with that.
But what are the rules? Do we go through the back door and call directly? That’s the first I’ve heard you could do that. I’ve been here for many years, and I’ve never called the Speaker and said, “I need a little more time.” What rules do we want? Do we want to change the rules, as I said at the beginning, for more flexibility? Tell us what the rules are so we are all treated fairly.
Thank you very much, Your Honour. If I may just add to the important points made by my colleagues to ask to please address my question in all aspects that have been raised, and that is the cutting off of our microphones. If we could please understand when that is happening and who is doing it. And I know because we made a study of this in my office because of the number of times I heard from people about my being cut off when others were not. So on this point, let me please strongly emphasize how much respect I have for your office, for your judgment as the Speaker of this chamber, but at the same time to strongly reinforce the points made by my colleagues about equitable treatment of all senators and my question, in particular, about the cutting off of our microphones. Thank you.
Thank you very much for all your comments. Again, the microphones are cut off usually when I stand. It’s a question of coordinating with the people who are cutting off the mic, and maybe there are a couple of seconds that might not be — you have to have a little bit of understanding as to how this is coordinated.
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your questions, and I’ll take them into consideration as I decide how to conduct routine proceedings and other matters on the scroll in future sittings.
Thank you very much.
