Thank you, Your Honour. My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

Since we last met, the House of Commons Justice Committee heard the testimony of Gerald Butts, the Prime Minister’s former principal secretary, regarding the SNC-Lavalin scandal. The committee also heard a second time from the former Clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick, and Nathalie Drouin, the Deputy Minister at the Justice Department.

We witnessed a press conference on this matter by the Prime Minister, a so-called statement of contrition absent of any contrition or apology.

Last week the Liberal members of the Justice Committee shut it down in an attempt to have Ms. Wilson-Raybould return before them, denying her the opportunity to complete her testimony.

The question: Why won’t the government allow Ms. Wilson-Raybould to tell her full story? What more is the government hiding?

Again, I thank the honourable senator for his question and welcome him to live television for the purposes of Question Period.

As the senator will know, the government gave an unprecedented waiver to the former Minister of Justice and Attorney General so that she could speak fully and in detail. She was able to do so during her more than four hours of testimony before the committee in the other place.

With regard to the work of that committee, as the honourable senator will know, that committee is still actively meeting I believe as early as tomorrow. I leave it to the competence and confidence of the other chamber to deal with their matters appropriately.

Thank you for the answer.

Canadians are still wondering what is going on. The former Attorney General wants to talk about what happened after she left the Department of Justice and resigned from cabinet, but she is being prevented from doing so. Last week, the Liberal members of the committee put an end to the meeting after less than 30 minutes. Obviously, they do not want Canadians to know the whole story. I think that makes it all the more important for the Senate to look into this matter. What do you think, Senator Harder? Did the events of the past two weeks make you rethink your position? Will you now support our motion without amendment or do you still believe that your colleagues in this chamber are just playing junior league second-guessers?

The honourable senator speaks to a motion that hopefully we get to later today. He and all senators will know that Senator Smith’s motion would cause action in this place with respect to the potential of creating a committee and calling witnesses. There is an amendment to that motion which I put forward for the consideration of this chamber.

As I indicated in my remarks at the time I spoke, I reminded all of the chamber that it is the Senate itself that will determine how, whether and if the Senate were to undertake such an inquiry. I remain of the view that the work of the committee in the other place and the work of the Ethics Commissioner and Conflict of Interest Commissioner are important works that are appropriate in the context of the matters that we’re discussing.

I would, of course, dispute the honourable senator’s preamble. If there’s a question there, let me respond by saying this Prime Minister has on no occasion directed the previous minister in terms of how she should exercise her judgement. At no time were any laws broken and there was no inappropriate behaviour.

As I said, there’s a committee of the other place examining this question. They’ve had a number of witnesses, including the former Minister of Justice and the Attorney General, as well as the present Minister of Justice and Attorney General. The matter is being looked at by the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Ethics Commissioner of the other place, who has appropriate jurisdiction in this matter, jurisdiction similar to a Superior Court judge, so that all matters that are relevant in the mind of the decision maker can be brought forward.

I would leave it to them to adjudicate the issues that the honourable senator is raising.

With respect to the confidence that he’s asking Canadians to have, I think that confidence expresses itself every day in the work of the government. I certainly look forward to tomorrow’s budget, where again, for the fourth time in this mandate, this government will have the opportunity to tell Canadians how the economic performance of this government is enhanced by the actions of this government.

Alas, senator, I have neither the temperament nor the capacity to instruct anybody how to vote in this chamber, unlike others. So let me simply say I will not withdraw the motion. I hope that we get to it tonight, and Senate willing, that we vote on it.

My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. It is obvious to Canadians that your Prime Minister is doing whatever he can to hide the truth about his own inappropriate and likely illegal interference in the work of the former Attorney General, Jody Wilson-Raybould, in the SNC-Lavalin case.

As a result of the Liberals’ unacceptable and disgraceful attempts to prevent Ms. Wilson-Raybould from clarifying the situation before the Justice Committee, committee members will have to make a decision based on only part of the picture. What is more, the Prime Minister and his staff will be retaining outside counsel to help them with their cover-up, all at taxpayers’ expense.

Leader, can you confirm that the government is once again trying to hide the truth from Canadians? More importantly, can you justify the money that is being spent on legal fees?

Again, I think the honourable senator will know all appropriate steps have been taken with respect to ensuring that this issue was aired in the appropriate committee in the other place, that the appropriate actions are taken by the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, and while he is on medical leave, the office itself is vigorously pursuing this. It is only appropriate that those involved are supported in the testimony which they might be compelled to bring forward.

Could the leader tell us whether the RCMP contacted the Prime Minister or his staff about the engagements made to the former Attorney General?

I am not aware of that.

Honourable colleagues, my question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Harder. The Prime Minister’s Office states that former Liberal cabinet minister Anne McLellan has been hired to assess the structure that has been in place since Confederation of a single minister holding the positions of Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada. I think you will agree, Senator Harder, that it’s not the responsibility of any one prime minister to ascertain and most certainly isn’t the job of any adviser in the Prime Minister’s Office. That’s up to Parliament to decide.

This government talks all the time about the trust in our institutions yet continues to show such disregard for them, especially Parliament. And because this Prime Minister, once again, can’t operate within the structure that’s been around for more than 150 years — and successfully, by the way, for more than 150 years — we have to change it all because it doesn’t fit his narrative?

Senator Harder, why is it that this Prime Minister thinks that those institutions and our system have to bend to accommodate him instead of the other way around? Why does this Prime Minister think that he is bigger than our Constitution and bigger than our institutions?

Again, the rhetoric of the honourable senator and the preamble are inflammatory and, quite frankly, wrong.

The Prime Minister of Canada — any prime minister — has the duty and the obligation to form a ministry in the shape and the mandate that they wish, and those mandates and ministries often result in Parliament having to act to legislate various machinery of government issues.

What the Prime Minister is seeking from the Honourable Anne McLellan is expert advice on whether the present configuration of machinery of government, in which the positions are combined, remain the appropriate configuration and the appropriate machinery of government positions today.

The honourable senator claims to be an expert on Westminster models. He will know that there are Westminster models where they are separated, and there are some upsides and downsides to that, which ought to be reflected and studied carefully, not just on the back of an envelope. That is the study that the Prime Minister has initiated.

What is the appropriate relationship between staff, both public service and political staff, in terms of interventions with the role of the Attorney General? Those are all part of a very important study that will be undertaken by a very respected former attorney general and minister of justice and deputy prime minister of Canada.

Government leader, indeed, you’re absolutely right. The role of determining these things is up to the House of Commons Justice Committee, the Senate Justice Committee and the two chambers of Parliament, not some staffer in the PMO or some consultant.

The Prime Minister’s special adviser will also analyze operating procedures in the PMO and across cabinet, as well as the role of public servants and political staff in interactions with the Attorney General of Canada. This is as per the communiqué put out by the Prime Minister’s Office.

If, after more than three years, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau needs a special adviser to explain to him that the independence of the judiciary is an essential element of our democracy, that no Prime Minister, including Justin Trudeau, has the right to interfere in a criminal judicial inquiry, has no right to give guidance and advice to the Justice Department, then this Prime Minister should maybe not have sought the job of Prime Minister if he wasn’t ready for it.

Let me ask you this, Senator Harder: If the Prime Minister is not up to the job of running his own office and cabinet, why should Canadians believe he’s up to the job of running this country?

Again, I completely disregard the preamble and the hyperbole. I, of course, won’t quote Justice Vaillancourt. I will leave that to others.

Let me simply say this Prime Minister is being vigilant in ensuring that his government remains absolutely focused on the right and appropriate machinery relationships between the Attorney General, the Minister of Justice and the ministry as a whole.

My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. Canadians have the right to know the truth.

SNC-Lavalin’s fraud and bribery charges date back to 2000 and 2011, which are now in different ways before Canadian courts.

What’s more, in 2015, it was sanctioned for illicit payments to an African development bank group.

It was under investigation by the Charbonneau inquiry in 2016.

SNC-Lavalin was also reprimanded for making illegal contributions to the Liberal Party — hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And, of course, in 2013 the World Bank announced the debarment of SNC-Lavalin for ten years.

In December 2015, less than two months after the Liberals came to power, SNC signed an administrative agreement with the Trudeau government, allowing it to bid and win work despite the still pending criminal charges.

The Prime Minister has lost two cabinet ministers, his principal secretary and now the Clerk of the Privy Council. When will this Prime Minister start taking real responsibility for the scandal?

Without commenting on all of the hyperbole of the preamble, let me simply say this Prime Minister has never shied away from taking responsibility for that, from the moment this first arose and in questions and commentary throughout the last number of weeks. The actions he has taken with respect to the announcements of today reflect his ongoing commitment to doing just that.

Prime Minister Trudeau has said time and time again that he always fights to protect Canadian jobs, especially SNC-Lavalin, about 9,000 jobs, he says.

Senator Harder, Northern Gateway involves thousands of jobs. Energy East pipeline involves thousands of jobs. Trans Mountain pipeline involves thousands of jobs. Building pipelines involves thousands of jobs. All companies cancelled projects involve thousands of jobs. These are the most massive job losses in the Canadian economy, which involve the entire industry. They did not even get attention from the PM, the PMO staff or the PCO — none.

My question to the Leader of the Government is: Why the double standard? Who can seriously believe it now when the Prime Minister says, “I fight to protect Canadians’ job in the line?”

Again I will discount the hyperbole and simply state for the record — and certainly we can report more fully on this in the context of tomorrow’s budget — of the job-creating record of this government. We have had job growth that has led the G7. Our unemployment rate is at the lowest level in a number of years and the Prime Minister and his government continue to be focused on jobs in the energy sector. That is why the government has taken the unprecedented step of actually buying a pipeline and working to ensure that Canada is able to export its important crude resources at the global level, not tied to just a North American space for this important product.

I think it’s important upon all of us to recognize that we all in Parliament share a responsibility to focus on jobs, wherever they are, in whatever sector, so that Canadians can benefit from the global economy, from the opportunities that come with better integration, better and higher levels of skills, learning computer and technology capacity, so that we can be truly a connected workforce, a workforce that has the tools to retrain and take advantage of the new opportunities of the new economy.

My question is for the Government Leader. Senator Harder, we’ve been away from this chamber for two weeks. I wonder if you can help us with some information. Can you enlighten us as to the timing of the activities of the house committee that’s looking into the SNC-Lavalin issues, the number of witnesses who are yet to appear, who those witnesses may be, the timing of the witnesses appearing before committee? This information certainly would help me with any decisions that I may have to make this evening around the amendment you proposed and the motions that were here two weeks ago. Thank you.

I thank the honourable senator for her question. She will know that, like committees in this chamber, committees in the other chamber operate with their own mandate. My understanding is the committee will be meeting tomorrow to determine their schedule and what witnesses they may bring forward for further study. I would also reference the ongoing work that is under way by the Ethics Commissioner and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner which has, as I’ve mentioned several times, both the authority, mandate and the critical legal basis on which to advance inquiries in this matter.