THE SENATE COMMITTEE OF SELECTION

EVIDENCE

OTTAWA, Thursday, October 2, 1997

The Senate Committee of Selection met this day at 10:05 a.m. for the purpose of choosing a chairman, for the nomination of a senator to preside as Speaker pro tempore, and for the nomination of senators to serve on several select committees during the present session, pursuant to rules 88, 85(1)(a) and 86(1) of the Rules of the Senate.

[Translation]

Mr. Gary O'Brien, Director of Committees: We have a quorum and it is my duty to proceed with the election of the Chairman. Are there any nominations?

Senator Kinsella: I nominate Senator Hébert as Chairman.

Mr. O'Brien: Are there any other nominations? Senator Kinsella moves that Senator Hébert be appointed Chairman of the committee. Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Mr. O'Brien: I invite Senator Hébert to take the chair.

[English]

Senator Jacques Hébert (Chairman) in the Chair.

The Chairman: The next item on our agenda is the nomination of a Speaker pro tempore.

Senator Stanbury: I nominate Senator Ottenheimer as Speaker pro tempore.

The Chairman: Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

It must be moved that the Chairman report to the Senate the nomination of the Speaker pro tempore agreed to at this day's meeting.

Senator Corbin: I so move.

The Chairman: Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Next, we require the nomination of 17 senators to serve on the Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate Senators Bolduc, Doyle and DeWare.

Senator Lewis: I nominate Senators Corbin, Gigantès, Grafstein and Louis Robichaud.

I notice that it says 17. We do not have that many.

The Chairman: What is the rule? I know that it says 17 but in the past we would not reach that number.

Senator Corbin: It is a joint committee.

Senator DeWare: The rest of the members come from the House of Commons.

The Chairman: Rule 86(1)(a) reads:

The Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament to which shall be appointed seventeen senators.

We can do that, but we never have in the past.

Senator Lewis: I have nominated four.

Senator Atkins: We have nominated three.

The Chairman: Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

Next on the agenda is the nomination of eight senators to serve on the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate Senators Grimard, Cogger and Kelly.

Senator Corbin: I move the names of Senators Ferretti Barth, Mercier, Hervieux-Payette, Moore, and Lewis.

The Chairman: Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Next is the Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages. We require the nomination of nine senators to serve on the committee.

Senator DeWare: I move the names of Senators Rivest, Beaudoin, Simard and Kinsella.

Senator Stanbury: I nominate Senators Gauthier, Fernand Robichaud, Losier-Cool, Pépin and Louis Robichaud. We have both Senators Robichaud on that committee.

The Chairman: Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: The next item on the agenda is the Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders.

Senator Kinsella: Mr. Chairman, I move that the following senators serve on the committee: Senators Robertson, Doyle, Grimard, Rossiter and Kelly.

Senator Fairbairn: Mr. Chairman, I nominate Senators Bosa, Corbin, Grafstein, Lewis, Marchand, Maheu, Milne, Pearson and Petten.

The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: The next item is the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration. We need 15 senators to serve on this committee.

Senator DeWare: Mr. Chairman, I nominate Senators Nolin, LeBreton, Kinsella, Atkins, Di Nino and DeWare.

Senator Lewis: I move that the following senators serve on the Internal Economy Committee: Senators Callbeck, Poulin, Taylor, De Bané, Fernand Robichaud, Wood, Maheu, Rompkey and Stollery.

The Chairman: Honourable senators, is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Senator Phillips: What is the membership of the committee in terms of parties?

The Chairman: It is nine and six.

Senator Phillips: That does not accord very well with the numbers in the Senate.

Senator DeWare: I do not know anything about Internal Economy. My understanding is that it was always a standing committee of 15, is that not correct?

Senator Phillips: I am not objecting to the number of 15. I am just asking why the numbers are not more evenly distributed between the two parties in the Senate.

The Chairman: I take it that there has been an agreement between the two sides. Perhaps Senator Kinsella can help me in this regard since I was not part of those discussions.

Senator Kinsella: Unfortunately, I am not able to help you on the particular division, Mr. Chairman. I do not recall having participated in any discussion on that specific topic.

Perhaps some of the senators who have a bit of the corporate memory can recall what is the usual distribution.

Senator Carstairs: Generally speaking, once the Chair is in place, committees are struck in such a way that the majority party has one more member on the committee. If you go to any other split with 15, you do not end up with that distribution. That is to say, for example, if the committee membership is 12, then you must have a 7-5 split. If you go to 15, then there is a 9-6 split. If you went to an 8-7 split, then when the Chair was sitting you would have an even split.

Senator Phillips: I do not buy that. The Chair is entitled to vote in committee. I do not buy your argument at all, senator.

Senator Lewis: I understand this is the way it has always been done over the years.

Senator Stanbury: I assume it is tradition. However, I am afraid I do not have that corporate memory.

Senator Phillips: I do not think it is tradition.

Senator DeWare: Is it in the rule book?

The Chairman:No, it is not. These numbers are usually determined by a discussion between both leaders.

Senator Lewis: Nominations are on the floor at the moment.

Senator Phillips: The fact that nominations have been made does not prevent me from asking a question. Having asked the question, I feel entitled to an answer.

Senator Lewis: Yes.

Senator Phillips: Being brushed off by saying that there are nominations does not answer my question.

Senator Lewis: How will we resolve this?

Senator Corbin: We have to live with the names before us, senator. I certainly respect your right to raise this issue. However, we have names before us and we have to take a decision, that is, unless you want to do something else.

Senator Phillips: I should like to have some idea why, when the membership of other committees is more evenly distributed, there is such a difference in the Internal Economy Committee.

Senator Lewis: I think that is because of the size of the committee, is it not?

Senator Corbin: Do we not have the same situation with Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders?

Senator Phillips: Yes. That is due to the fact that the Conservatives did not nominate their full complement of members.

The Chairman: Are there any suggestions concerning what we do now? We have the names before us. Do members of the committee agree on those names or do they want another solution?

Senator Stanbury: I have been advised that the numbers were nine and six in the last Parliament and that no change has been suggested.

The Chairman: We are following what has been done in the recent past.

Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Senator Phillips: Nay.

The Chairman: The motion is agreed to, on division.

The next item on the agenda is the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs. The membership of the committee is 12 senators.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate Senators Andreychuk, Bolduc, Carney, Doody, and Finlay MacDonald.

Senator Corbin: I propose the Honourable Senators Bacon, Grafstein, Corbin, Stewart, De Bané, Stollery, and Whelan.

The Chairman: Do we agree on these names?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

Next is the Standing Committee on National Finance. We are entitled to 12 senators to serve on this committee.

Senator Kinsella: I place forward the nominations of the following senators: Stratton, St. Germain, Bolduc, Lavoie-Roux, Eyton.

Senator Lewis: I would nominate Senators Cools, Mercier, Sparrow, Ferretti Barth, Moore, Forest, and Poulin.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Next is the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications. May I have the nomination of 12 senators, please?

Senator Kinsella: I nominate Senators Forrestall, Buchanan, Roberge, Atkins, and Johnson.

Senator Stanbury: Honourable senators, I nominate to the committee the Honourable Senators Adams, Bacon, De Bané, Mercier, Perrault, Poulin, and Rompkey.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

The next item is the nomination of senators to serve on the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate the Honourable Senators Cogger, Beaudoin, Doyle, Jessiman, and Nolin.

Senator Fairbairn: I nominate Honourable Senators Gigantès, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Milne, Moore, Pearson, and Watt.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

The next item is the Standing Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce. We are entitled to 12 senators.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate the following senators: Angus, Kelleher, Meighen, Oliver, and Tkachuk.

Senator Lewis: I nominate the following senators to the committee: Austin, Callbeck, Hervieux-Payette, Kirby, Kolber, Stanbury, and Stewart.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

The next item is the nomination of senators to serve on the Standing Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate to the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology the Honourable Senators Cohen, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Murray, and Phillips.

Senator Corbin: I nominate Senators Bonnell, Bosa, Cools, Forest, Haidasz, Pépin, and Maheu.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: The next item is the nomination of senators to serve on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Forestry.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate to the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry the following senators: Gustafson, Rivest, Spivak, Rossiter, and Stratton.

Senator Stanbury: I nominate to the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry the following senators: Bryden, Callbeck, Hays, Fernand Robichaud, Sparrow, Taylor, and Whelan.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

Next is the Standing Committee on Fisheries, 12 senators.

Senator Kinsella: I nominate Senators Comeau, Rossiter, Carney, Meighen, and Jessiman.

Senator Fairbairn: I nominate to the committee the following senators: Adams, Butts, Losier-Cool, Perrault, Petten, Fernand Robichaud, and Stewart.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

The next item is the Standing Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

Senator Kinsella: Honourable senators, I nominate Senators Buchanan, Cochrane, Ghitter, Gustafson, and Spivak.

Senator Lewis: I nominate the following senators: Butts, Hays, Stanbury, Kirby, Rompkey, Taylor, and Watt.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried. Next is the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Peoples.

Senator Kinsella: Honourable senators, I nominate the following senators to the committee: Johnson, Twinn, Andreychuk, Doody, and Beaudoin.

Senator Corbin: Honourable senators, I nominate to the committee the Honourable Senators Adams, Austin, Forest, Marchand, Pearson, Taylor, and Watt.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

We will need to meet again for special committees to be created, if any.

Item No. 20 on your agenda is the reporting of the nominations to the Senate. May I have a motion to that effect, please?

Senator Lewis: I so move.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

Next is Item No. 21, a motion to print the committee's proceeding. It is suggested that 200 copies be printed for distribution to senators, MPs, officials, and others.

Senator Stanbury: I so move.

The Chairman: Is it agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Are there any other matters?

Senator Corbin: I propose the adjournment of the committee.

The Chairman: The committee will adjourn to the call of the Chair.

The committee adjourned.