Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Social Affairs, Science and Technology
Issue 2 - Evidence - April 2, 2009
OTTAWA, Thursday, April 2, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology met this day at 8:35 a.m. to study Bill C- 17, An Act to recognize Beechwood Cemetery as the national cemetery of Canada.
Senator Art Eggleton (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology. Today, we are studying Bill C-17.
[English]
The bill deals with Beechwood Cemetery being designated as a national cemetery for Canada. In addition to the committee members, I welcome Senator Corbin, who has also expressed an interest in this issue.
We will go directly to the witnesses. The first witness is the Honourable Mauril Bélanger, Member of Parliament for Ottawa-Vanier, in whose constituency this cemetery is situated. He was also the sponsor of a private member's bill previously on this designation for the cemetery. Bill C-17, which we have before us, is now a government bill.
I will start with Mauril Bélanger. Welcome.
[Translation]
Hon. Mauril Bélanger, C.P., M.P., Ottawa—Vanier: Mr. Chair, first of all I would like to thank you for inviting me to appear as a witness before your committee. This is the first time I am appearing as an M.P. I was called as a witness when I was the minister responsible for official languages.
You have before you a bill that I introduced but which has many parents. This bill has been in the works for about ten years and the concept of a national cemetery has evolved. In the Ottawa—Vanier riding, there are two cemeteries that could have undoubtedly been given this honour. As the M.P. for this riding, I took the necessary steps to determine if it was possible to amalgamate Beechwood and Notre-Dame Cemeteries so that they could become the National Cemetery of Canada. Unfortunately, my research and discussions revealed that it would be impossible because the cemeteries are not contiguous. A piece of property was sold and thus the two cemeteries were permanently separated. There were also various administrative differences, particularly the availability of vacant plots within said cemeteries. Consequently, the main players in the project decided, at the time or about ten years ago, to move forward with Beechwood Cemetery.
I had meetings with the managers of Beechwood Cemetery to prepare a phased plan covering at least a decade. We have been following this plan over the past 10 years.
[English]
Significant steps have been taken, and others may testify to that. These include our national military, veterans, the creation of a chamber opened last year by our Governor General, and reaching out to a number of communities.
[Translation]
The objective was to ensure that all services provided by Beechwood Cemetery would be carried out in Canada's two official languages. At the end of ten years, I believed that Beechwood Cemetery was ready. Thus, in February 2007, I introduced a private members' bill seconded by the member to my right, the Conservative member Mr. Royal Galipeau, and the member to my left, the NDP member for Ottawa Centre, Mr. Paul Dewar. I wanted to show that this was not a partisan initiative. At that time, I made it clear that if the government wanted to take over the bill and make it a government bill, we would not oppose it.
Later on, the government did decide to take steps to make it a government bill. There were negotiations, verifications and discussions between Minister Prentice and other members of the government. As a result of these discussions, the government recently tabled this bill.
In the meantime, I worked closely with the other parties. To the government's surprise, all parties in the House — the NDP, the Bloc Québécois, the Liberals and the Conservatives — supported the bill. As you know, each party gave a speech and, after one hour of debate, the bill was sent to the Senate.
That is the history of the bill and I am very proud of it. I have always believed that, as an institution, a national cemetery in the national capital makes sense, bring together Canadians, and can be a source of pride and unity.
In my opinion, the very diversity of Beechwood Cemetery mirrors our country. Soldiers, scientists, heads of state, municipal leaders and people from every social class and from all backgrounds are buried there.
I believe that it truly reflects our country. Consequently, I hope that my colleagues in the upper chamber will support this bill.
[English]
The Chair: We had invited the minister, but he was unable to attend this morning. We will now hear from Michel Audy with Parks Canada.
Michel Audy, Special Advisor, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada: Mr. Chair, honourable senators, thank you for the opportunity to appear this morning on behalf of Parks Canada.
[Translation]
My name is Michel Audy and I represent Parks Canada.
[English]
Parks Canada has been in the national commemoration business for over 100 years. The national commemoration program is predicated on collaboration between Parks Canada and Canadians interested in preserving and presenting places of pan-Canadian importance associated with our nation's history. In pursuing this objective, Parks Canada works closely with the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada in developing criteria for the identification and evaluation of subjects of potential national historic significance and in supporting legislation and policies related to Canada's national historic sites.
[Translation]
Parks Canada was thus pleased to be asked to share its expertise in drafting Bill C-17, which is based on Mr. Bélanger's private member's bill and establishes a national cemetery created by Canadians for Canadians.
[English]
In this regard, the Canadian concept of a national cemetery does not follow the U.S. example of national cemeteries, which, with the exception of Arlington National Cemetery, are reserved exclusively for military burials. While some countries have adopted the American model, other countries have established national cemeteries or constructed imposing edifices to memorialize their nations' greats. Examples of national cemeteries that abound in this sense and that have been established for this purpose are the Cementerio de la Recoleta in Buenos Aires and the Cementerio Central de Bogotá in Colombia. The Panthéon in Paris, France is a marvellous example of a memorial building constructed for the interment of its nation's greats. Westminster Abbey in London, England is the burial site of successive generations of British monarchs and eminent citizens.
The recognition of Beechwood Cemetery as a national cemetery of Canada is an important step toward memorializing Canada's people, great or small, that shape our history and identify our country. The Beechwood Cemetery Foundation accepts the great responsibility, in our view, to hold in trust for present and future generations, the stories and histories of Canadian citizens interred on its grounds, regardless of religious beliefs and practices, cultural background or social status. As the nation's capital, Ottawa is a place for national celebrations and national commemorations.
Ottawa is home to the National War Memorial and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, the Valiants Memorial, the Monument to Peace and Remembrance, the Monument to Canadian Aid Workers, and the Canadian Tribute to Human Rights. While Canada has national memorials, military cemeteries and fields of honour, it does not have a national cemetery that embraces the breadth and diversity of this land's social, political and cultural diversity.
On the basis of its experience with the national commemoration program, Parks Canada believes that the benchmark must be set high if the recognition of a national cemetery is to be meaningful and enduring. The national cemetery of Canada, then, must necessarily have a section reserved for military burials in recognition of Canada's long- standing military history and to honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice for this country.
In 2001, Beechwood Cemetery became the home of the National Military Cemetery of the Canadian Forces. Canada's national police force contributed importantly to the development of this country, and it is only fitting that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police established its national memorial cemetery at Beechwood in 2004. The national cemetery should be a national historic site of Canada, which is the highest form of historical recognition afforded by the federal government, and Beechwood Cemetery received this distinction in 2001. The national cemetery of Canada must be representative of Canadian society and open to citizens of all faiths and cultures and represent Canada's linguistic duality. Beechwood Cemetery has sections reserved by various ethnocultural communities and practitioners of different faiths. Beechwood Cemetery offers all of its services in both official languages.
In its preamble, Bill C-17 presents Beechwood Cemetery as a national place of tribute. This statement was inspired in part by the inauguration last year of the Beechwood National Memorial Centre, a 14,000-square-foot, multi-faith venue, which is capable of hosting state burials and other ceremonies of a national calibre. To our knowledge, Beechwood is the only cemetery in the nation's capital that meets all of these criteria.
Therefore, Parks Canada supports Bill C-17, which does not conflict with any federal policies. It does not impose any new costs on taxpayers and does not require the fulfillment of any new obligations related to the administration of this proposed legislation. Honourable senators, thank you for taking the time to hear these remarks on behalf of Parks Canada.
The Chair: Thank you. Ms. Ceacero, please proceed.
Sylvia Ceacero, Executive Director, Beechwood Cemetery Foundation: Mr. Chair, honourable senators, thank you for inviting me to make a presentation to your committee with respect to Bill C-17. I am accompanied this morning by Ms. Grete Hale, Chair of the Beechwood Cemetery Foundation, General (Ret'd) Maurice Baril, Director of the Beechwood Cemetery Foundation, and Vera Yuzyk, Director of the Development of the Beechwood Cemetery Foundation.
Beechwood Cemetery, established in 1873, is considered to be one of the most beautiful and historic cemeteries in Canada. It is located in the heart of Ottawa within view of Parliament Hill. Of its 160 acres, approximately 60 are available for future development.
For 136 years, Beechwood has provided a dignified and final resting place for over 75,000 Canadians from all walks of life. Many prominent Canadians are interred here, including Sir Robert Borden, former Prime Minister of Canada; Senator Maurice Lamontagne; Tommy Douglas, former Premier of Saskatchewan and father of Canada's health care system; and Governor General Ramon Hnatyshyn, to name a few. Beechwood is also a local treasure and final resting place for over 26 mayors of Ottawa and over 40 families who have Ottawa streets named after them.
Beechwood Cemetery has a booklet called Great Canadian Profiles that lists about 300 persons of significance to Ottawa and the country that are interred at Beechwood Cemetery, including the architect of our federal Parliament Buildings, Thomas Fuller II, and William McDougall, one of the Fathers of Confederation.
Beechwood Cemetery is owned and operated by the Beechwood Cemetery Foundation, BCF, a not-for-profit registered Canadian charity. Its mission is to promote educational, historical and religious activities at Beechwood Cemetery. The BCF also provides for the care and maintenance of Beechwood Cemetery's amenities and develops and maintains the Military Cemetery and the RCMP National Memorial Cemetery.
The Beechwood Cemetery Foundation is governed by a volunteer board of directors, the chair of which is Ms. Grete Hale, a respected businesswoman, philanthropist and community volunteer. The foundation is supported by an enthusiastic Friends organization that is active in all aspects of promoting Beechwood Cemetery as an important local and national treasure.
Currently, the foundation is engaged in a fundraising campaign to raise $1 million for enhancements to the Beechwood National Memorial Centre. The honorary patron of the fundraising campaign is Senator Roméo Dallaire, retired lieutenant-general, and the chair is Maurice Baril, retired general, former Chief of Defence Staff.
The Beechwood Cemetery Foundation is committed to respecting and promoting the linguistic duality of Canada. All of our services are offered in French and English. Beechwood Cemetery has on staff a number of francophones and individuals who are fluently bilingual. As well, the foundation's board of directors, campaign cabinet and Friends group include respected francophones of our community.
The Beechwood Cemetery Foundation works closely with the francophone community. For example, one of the foundation's fundraising committees, the Bruyère committee, raised $160,000 to erect a monument at Beechwood Cemetery to Elisabeth Bruyère, founder of the Sisters of Charity of Ottawa, and St. Marguerite d'Youville, first Canadian-born saint. The fundraising committee consisted of many active francophones in our community.
Once designed as the Anglo-Protestant cemetery of Ottawa, today Beechwood is open to Canadians of all faiths and backgrounds and is a true reflection of Canada's identity as a multicultural, multi-faith society. Here you will find dedicated ethnic and religious sections reserved for the Greek, Portuguese, Ukrainian, Polish, Latvian, Egyptian, Lebanese and Muslim communities. For instance, section 110 is reserved for the Catholic community, and its central feature is the aforementioned monument to Elisabeth Bruyère and St. Marguerite d'Youville.
Visible on the grounds are also monuments to prominent religious figures: St. Charbel and Our Lady of Fatima.
Beechwood Cemetery is also the home of the Chinese Cemetery of Ottawa, designed according to Chinese religious principles and distinguished by a pagoda to honour the community's ancestors. Current services are also provided in the three dialects of Chinese.
To recognize the contribution of Canada's First Peoples and, in particular, the Algonquin people, an Aboriginal tribute garden is being planned.
[Translation]
In less than a decade, Beechwood took important steps towards recognition as Canada's national cemetery. In 2001, it became the National Military Cemetery of the Canadian Forces. I make special mention of this because 18 soldiers who lost their lives in Afghanistan while serving their country are buried in Beechwood.
In 2002, Beechwood Cemetery was designated a national historic site of Canada by the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police established its National Memorial Cemetery at Beechwood in 2004. Special mention must be made of Officer Christopher Worden, who died in the line of duty and is buried at Beechwood. In 2006, Poet's Hill was officially opened to honour our Canadian literary heritage. In May 2007, the members of the Macoun Marsh Biodiversity Committee inaugurated their outdoor classroom on the site of Macoun Marsh, which is located in Beechwood Cemetery. Named in honour of the great naturalist, John Macoun, Macoun Marsh has received national and international awards. In 2007, the veterans sections administered by Veterans Affairs Canada and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission became part of the National Military Cemetery. In 2008, the Beechwood National Memorial Centre opened its doors to meet the requirements of memorial services for all Canadians. This facility consists of a magnificent nine-sided Sacred Space, reception rooms and a hall that features the laid-up colours of Canada's army. The design of the facility was the result of extensive consultations with leaders of major faith communities. The sacred space welcomes all of Canada's faith communities. This Memorial Centre is unique in the world and has already attracted public attention in Canada and abroad.
[English]
Beechwood Cemetery serves as a focal point for national memorial events, such as Remembrance Day, Decoration Day, the National Memorial Ride, the Silver Cross Mother announcement and the September 11 remembrance ceremony. It will serve as an evocative location for state funerals of Canada's governors general, prime ministers and Victoria Cross recipients.
Within the bereavement sector, Beechwood Cemetery has set a national standard of excellence for other cemeteries to emulate. It serves as a powerful tool to educate both young and old generations about Canada's rich history and diversity. Annually, Beechwood Cemetery offers educational events and historical walking tours in French and English, each with a special theme highlighting the contributions and achievements of those laid to rest at Beechwood Cemetery.
While Beechwood Cemetery is a place to record, honour and celebrate our heroes, Canadian leaders, Canadian military men and women, RCMP and veterans, it is also a place for the everyday heroes — our loved ones and our families.
A national cemetery in Ottawa will serve as a symbol of Canadian unity and pride — a dignified resting place for Canada to honour and celebrate the lives of Canadians who have contributed to our history and diversity.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Ceacero. May I also welcome the president of Beechwood Cemetery, who is sitting at the table, Ms. Grete Hale. I am delighted to see General Baril, our former Chief of Defence Staff. He and I were patrolling the halls of National Defence for a number of years. When we designated this as a national military cemetery, it was during my time as Minister of Defence.
I also had the opportunity to go to the National Field of Honour in Pointe-Claire, and I am happy to welcome Louis Cuppens here today, a retired general himself. He is the chair of the board of directors of the Last Post Fund.
Lieutenant-General (Ret'd) Louis Cuppens, National President, Last Post Fund: Honourable Senators, I am Louis Cuppens, as my former boss, Senator Eggleton has introduced me. I am presently the national president of the Last Post Fund. At the outset, I wish to convey to all of you that the Last Post Fund is totally behind this bill.
The Last Post Fund is a non-profit charitable organization founded in the City of Montreal in 1909. Its main objective then was — and remains — to ensure that Canadian veterans in dire poverty received a dignified funeral and burial to compensate for the lack of government involvement at that time. The second objective of the Last Post Fund was to provide marked grave headstones for Canadian veterans in a military manner.
The year 2009 marks the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Last Post Fund.
If I may just give you a snapshot of how this started, Mr. Arthur Hare was a retired military man, born in England, who had served in the Boer War. He was a hospital orderly. Just before Christmas, in 1908, a gentleman was brought to the hospital seemingly in a drunken stupor. Mr. Hare noted the fellow was in an area of the hospital to sleep it off, so to speak, but he noticed no alcohol on this man's breath. All he noticed in his pocket was his service certificate. When he read it, he decided this man was a veteran, and he noted that his medical condition was not what was reported on the chart.
A few hours later, being treated by the medical people, he passed away. Because he had no family or next of kin, and as was the custom at that time, without money, his remains were to be turned over for exploration, medical science and later to be interred in a pauper's grave. This incensed the founder of our organization to the point that he went to his friends and raised money and organized the burial of this fellow in the Côtes de Neige Cemetery in Montreal. That was client number one back in 1909.
Since that time, our goals have remained unchanged, namely, that no eligible Canadian veteran is denied a funeral and burial for lack of sufficient funds, and each gravestone is marked and identified. Being an independent and autonomous organization, the Last Post Fund nevertheless works in close cooperation with Veterans Affairs Canada, from whom it receives the necessary funds for the government's funeral and burial program.
The Last Post Fund's head office is in Montreal, and it has regional branches across the country, in every province except Prince Edward Island, which is administered by New Brunswick.
In 1929, when the plots at Mount Royal and Notre-Dame-des-Neiges cemeteries became full, the Last Post Fund acquired a site in Pointe-Claire, some 20 kilometres west of Montreal, in order to develop the National Field of Honour.
Inaugurated in 1930, the National Field of Honour was the first exclusively military cemetery in Canada since the Papineau cemetery closed in 1869 following the departure of the British garrison from Montreal. The National Field of Honour is a truly unique site in that it is a private, non-profit cemetery exclusively dedicated to Canadian war veterans and their spouses.
The National Field of Honour has a surface area of 13.5 acres. It is accessed through the Gate of Remembrance, an imposing medieval-style stone installation that also harbours a chapel. It serves as a symbolic reminder of those who have made the supreme sacrifice of their lives for their country.
The cemetery layout comprises four traffic circles, ten monuments and an impressive flagstaff. The commemorative character of the site is highlighted by the names given to the road intersections evoking distinguished veterans, such as William Avery "Billy" Bishop, or depicting special events in Canadian military history, such as the battles of Vimy and Amiens.
In the third traffic circle rest the remains of the British garrison soldiers based in Montreal from 1814 to 1869, which were transferred in 1944 from the Papineau Street cemetery following the sale of the site by the defence department to the City of Montreal in order to provide the approaches to the Jacques Cartier Bridge. Fifty-four old stones found in the cemetery now lay on the British soldiers' burial plots. At the centre of the circle are found the remains of Sir Benjamin D'Urban, who died in Montreal when he commanded the British forces in North America. Appropriately named the D'Urban Circle, it honours the British soldiers posted in Montreal, among whom are veterans from the Napoleonic and Boer wars.
Our eligibility requirements are, and the National Field of Honour is reserved for, Canadian and allied war veterans, including members of the Canadian Merchant Navy who served in World War II and the Korean conflict; members of the Canadian Forces who were awarded the Canadian Forces Decoration after 12 years of service; modern-day veterans, according to the new definition, who received a decoration for bravery or for distinguished service; veterans and modern-day veterans who qualify for a funeral and burial grant from Veterans Affairs Canada; military members who died while in service; and service members who have served in special duty operations.
Since the cemetery's inauguration, 20,000 people have been buried at the National Field of Honour, including approximately 15,000 Canadian and allied veterans originating from all parts of the country and Europe. Veterans from Great Britain, Belgium, France, the Netherlands and the United States are indeed well represented.
As well, all the conflicts in which our servicemen have fought, from World War I to the Afghanistan war, as well as peacekeeping missions in which they played a part, are all depicted in the National Field of Honour — for example, heroes and renowned personalities such as Lieutenant-Colonel Norman Mitchell, recipient of the Victoria Cross; Lord William Shaughnessy, member of the House of Lords until 1999, who was a major of the Canadian Guards in the Second World War, Clarence Campbell, the former president of the National Hockey League; veterans of the Second World War and Corporal Nicolas Beauchamp and Private Simon Longtin, both deceased in the Afghanistan war. All of these and many others rest in the National Field of Honour, with the only visible sign of their passage in this world being the granite plaque installed by the Last Post Fund.
The basic principle at the heart of the National Field of Honour's development is that, in death, all servicemen are equal. This prevailing spirit is highlighted by the identical headstones used to mark all of the graves, no matter what the hierarchical distinction, social status, ethnic origin or religion might be. In the same spirit, servicemen are interred in a sequential manner, officers and soldiers buried side by side.
The National Field of Honour figures as a very evocative place of remembrance dedicated to the men and women who served under the flag of our country, retelling to the living generations some 200 years of military history. Every year, on the first Sunday of June, we pay tribute to these buried servicemen and women through a commemorative military ceremony in the presence of hundreds of families, friends, peers, representatives of veterans associations, servicemen and Canadian and foreign dignitaries. Exceptionally this year, this ceremony will be held on June 21 under the honorary presidency of the Honourable Greg Thomson, Minister of Veterans Affairs Canada. I invite you all to attend this special ceremony where the Canadian government will officially recognize the National Field of Honour as a national historic site by unveiling a commemorative plaque.
Thank you very much for allowing me to provide this information. I would be delighted to answer any questions as they arise.
The Chair: Thank you very much, General Cuppens, for the story of the National Field of Honour, which, as you have pointed out, has been designated a national historic site. I understand, and Mr. Audy can confirm this, that there is no diminishing whatsoever of the status of the National Field of Honour as a result of Bill C-17 and the designation of Beechwood Cemetery.
Mr. Audy: That is absolutely correct, Mr. Chair. I would add that perhaps the time has come for this country to develop a network or a comprehensive program of national military cemeteries. We should understand this would be outside the scope of the present legislation that is before us today.
The Chair: However, is it something you are working on?
Mr. Audy: I am retiring in two weeks. I am not working on it. This is my last hurrah, as they say.
The Chair: Thank you.
I also want to point out a letter addressed to Senator Corbin, from Senator Meighen, who received an answer from Minister Prentice's office about the possible costs of the designation of Beechwood Cemetery. It says that there are no costs associated with Beechwood Cemetery as the national cemetery of Canada. You have it in front of you, and I just draw your attention to it.
Senator Corbin, from New Brunswick, will pose the first question or comment.
Senator Corbin: Thank you for your kindness, Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps I should be allowed to make a very brief statement. I have been receiving calls accusing me of playing partisan politics with this legislation, and I am deeply offended by that suggestion. I would like to quote publicly what I said in the Senate on page 427 of the Debates.
[Translation]
I think it would be a good thing to have the bill referred to committee. I will add that I am not opposed to this legislation, but the Senate has played a useful role in being the chamber of sober second thought in respect of proposed legislation. We ought to be faithful to that practice, which takes away from no one but ultimately enforces the objective that we seek to accomplish.
[English]
Having said that, and hopefully clearing the air, I would, in view of the comments made by these distinguished gentlemen and lady, request that General Baril come to the table. As one who does not consider Ottawa his hometown, and being preoccupied by the image or the potential impact this designation may have elsewhere in Canada, I would like General Baril to repeat the conversation we had before this meeting, which would allay the fears of many Canadians that there is room for national recognition outside of Ottawa in paying our respects to your fallen comrades and others.
Mr. Audy briefly touched on that in his final comments. I think that is important.
General (Ret'd) Maurice Baril, Director, Beechwood Cemetery Foundation: If you allow me, I will take five minutes to talk with some emotion about that.
When I was a battalion commander, seven of my soldiers were killed: one during operations, when he was struck by a bullet through the heart; three in military vehicle crashes; two in motorcycle crashes; and one committed suicide. I then had to face the families and ask them where they wanted their sons to be buried because I had no option. We were not allowed to go into the Last Post Fund. We were not allowed to bury our soldiers in any of the veteran sections of the military cemeteries across Canada. I still feel bad about the burial of our soldiers and having to tell their loved ones that they will have go back to their village because we have no place for them to be buried in a national cemetery.
I told myself that if I ever came into a position of authority, I would try to fix that situation, and we did. We started to talk about it in the 1990s. In the early 1990s, I found a memo by the leadership of the forces at that time — and this was a response to the requirement to have a military cemetery — that said, "We are in the killing business; we are not in the burial business. Veterans Affairs is in the burial business." I guess those folks had never faced a family and asked them what they wanted to do with their son or daughter.
We wanted the option of asking the families where they would like to have their sons or daughters buried, in a military cemetery or in their village, or wherever it was. We then came up with a national military cemetery in Ottawa because when you start something national, have you to put its base somewhere. After we had a location for the cemetery, it was always our intention to have the capability to extend it just as the U.S. has done with their Arlington National Cemetery. They have satellites in just about every state across the nation.
When we talk to a family living in Calgary or Chicoutimi and ask them where they want their child to be buried, we give them the option. They will probably say that they would like to have them buried with their brother- or sister-in- arms in the military cemetery in Quebec City — probably not in Ottawa. Quebec has military sections. I think the representative of Parks Canada said that work is ongoing there; it has been for a long time.
It was always the principle at the beginning that we would spread satellite cemeteries across the ten provinces and three territories and have places where the families can bury their loved ones across the country like this. That has always been the plan. This is a project for the leadership of Veterans Affairs and the Canadian Forces. I am retired and will not tell them how it should be done, but of course I am following it very closely because it is close to my heart. I know the project is moving forward.
Senator Corbin, I do not know if you would like to know more, but that is the background of it.
Let me tell you why we went into the Beechwood Cemetery. I discussed that with our national Minister of Defence at the time. In the military, we like high ground. We like dominating ground. That is the way it works. We were looking for a place in Ottawa, outside of Ottawa, Rockcliffe, and then Ms. Grete Hale ambushed me at a function and said, "We might have a place for you in Beechwood Cemetery." I had never been to Beechwood Cemetery except to bury some of the military in the low ground, where the veterans are located. My project officer dragged me there in the spring of 1999, through the mud and snow, and we walked to the high ground. He then said, "This is where they want to give us the piece of land." From the high ground in the spring, you can see Parliament, the Chinese community cemetery behind, and the military portion of Veterans Affairs in the low ground. It must have been designed by artillery, because they always hide in low ground. People of all walks of life are buried all around that area.
It struck me at that time that we wanted the high ground, but we spend our life defending our nation and being part of our nation. Being buried in the nation's capital was important. I had never seen a site like this before in my life. The cemetery board was offering us eight or nine hectares, all the low ground; it was reserved for us. We took the decision right there. My responsibility was to go back to confirm and convince the Minister of National Defence and get the money for it because it meant a bit of money. The Canadian Forces now had an option in their hands to offer to the mother or father of a fallen soldier when they went to see them.
When we sign on the line to wear the uniform of Canada, we have unlimited liability. It does not matter if you are in the reserve or in the cadets or wherever you are, you will serve where your country is asking you to serve. When you die, you should all be buried together. Many are serving in Afghanistan or, unfortunately, are being killed in Afghanistan. Many people are supporting those soldiers, those men and women who are serving there. They must have the right to be laid to rest there, all together. This is what the Canadian Forces cemetery is all about: If you have served in the Canadian Forces, you have the right to be buried there.
The Chair: You convinced me as well at the time, General Baril, although I did spend some years with the artillery, so I appreciated the low-land version as well.
Senator Keon: First, let me congratulate you for coming together and getting this done. I especially want to congratulate you, Mr. Bélanger. You have been working on this for years and years, and you have used all of the political skills that my old friend Jean-Luc Pépin taught you, I think, and surrounded yourself with all-party support to get this bill in a form that it could pass the other place without amendment. I am assuming that you would be very happy if it passed in the Senate without amendment; is that correct?
Mr. Bélanger: I believe so, yes.
Senator Keon: That is all I wanted to ask you.
The Chair: Anything else?
Senator Keon: No.
[Translation]
Senator Pépin: I am very pleased that Mr. Bélanger was able to come and explain to us the good work he has accomplished.
I have a few questions about Beechwood Cemetery. First, can you tell us if recognizing Beechwood Cemetery would change the eligibility criteria for interment?
Second, would this mean that Prime Ministers and Governors General would not be allowed to choose where they are to be interred?
Mr. Audy: Not at all. Parks Canada is responsible for managing the National Program for the Grave Sites of Canadian Prime Ministers. We are responsible for maintaining the grave sites of the 15 deceased prime ministers. The objective of the program — as announced by Mr. Bélanger in 1999 —, the basic principle of the program is very clear and remains clear today: prime ministers are interred in a location of their choice; we respect the will of the families; and, to date, prime ministers remain interred at the location they chose.
A few years ago, we received a request from the community of Hopewell, in New Brunswick, to exhume and transfer the remains of Gordon Bennett, which are currently interred in England. We believed that it was clear that he wished to be interred in England and we respected his wishes.
This is also the case for governors general. The Department of Canadian Heritage is responsible for the state funerals program. We explain our program to them, but the choice is theirs. We tell them that Beechwood Cemetery is a national cemetery but that they can choose to be interred wherever they wish.
Senator Pépin: I am very pleased that recognizing Beechwood will not affect in any way the National Field of Honour in Pointe-Claire.
Mr. Bélanger, the bill states that the linguistic duality will be respected. Knowing you, I am certain that if you support it, it will be respected.
But are there any regulations ensuring that, in the future, someone will be in a position to guarantee that anyone can be interred in their own language?
Mr. Bélanger: It is not a question of being interred in one's language, but of the commemorative services provided by Beechwood Cemetery as well as the services provided for the tours and events organized.
You are quite right, senator. If I did not believe in Beechwood Cemetery's commitment to fully respecting the linguistic duality of Canada, I would not have introduced the bill.
It has been very clear, in our conversations over the past ten years, that it was a condition sine qua non. The Foundation and the Cemetery have their own internal regulations and the Executive Director may speak about that. But I am satisfied with the progress made over the past ten years at Beechwood Cemetery in having staff implement its policies and respecting this country's desire to have two official languages.
[English]
Senator Eaton: This is a very exciting project. It is wonderful that we will at last have a national cemetery.
To follow on Senator Pépin's question, once the cemetery is made into a national cemetery, does that mean I can say that I love the trees at Beechwood Cemetery want to be buried in Beechwood Cemetery, or will it be reserved for people who have done great service for the nation? I am not including senators here.
Ms. Ceacero: Beechwood Cemetery has been designed to be open to all Canadians from all walks of life. Our vision for the future is that if you are from Toronto and you wish to be in the national cemetery, there will be a place for you there. It is open to everyone.
Senator Eaton: That is lovely. Are you not worried that you will run out of space or dilute the fact that this is a very special place for heroes or people who have done great things for the country if you have everyone there?
Ms. Ceacero: We have land reserves. The Beechwood Cemetery is 160 acres, of which 100 acres is developed. Sixty per cent is in use and 40 per cent is available for immediate purchase, if you will. We still have 60 acres available to develop.
Depending on the direction of funeral traditions of Canadians, we have approximately 60 per cent cremation and 40 per cent traditional burial. If cremation continues to be the trend in the future, we could have land reserves from anywhere from 100 years to 300 years.
The Chair: Imagine, they will even allow people from Toronto.
Senator Cordy: Thank you for coming today and particularly to Mr. Bélanger for the work you have done. Someone told me you have been working on this for 10 years, and it has been a labour of love. You have done it in a very non- partisan way.
Like Senator Corbin, I am certainly in favour of this bill. However, I think it is important that we follow the process and have it come to committee. If it had not come to committee, we would not have heard the history of the cemetery, and we certainly would not have heard the stories that you told us this morning. All Canadians can hear these stories and histories because the committee is televised. That is extremely important.
I am sure most Canadians have heard of Arlington National Cemetery. Unfortunately, we have not had an "Arlington" in Canada. Hopefully, in a few years' time, people will recognize "Beechwood" and be very aware of Beechwood Cemetery.
Who has ownership of the land at Beechwood Cemetery, and will that change?
You are the executive director of the Beechwood Cemetery and Beechwood Cemetery Foundation. Will that change at all?
Also, will the role of the federal government change when the bill passes? What is the role of the federal government with respect to Beechwood Cemetery? Is it simply that it makes the designation that this is a national cemetery, or is there a further role for the Canadian government?
Ms. Ceacero: With respect to the ownership of Beechwood Cemetery, as I mentioned earlier, it is owned by the Beechwood Cemetery Foundation. The foundation was created in 2001 for the purpose to ensure the perpetuity of the cemetery for generations to come. Therefore, we have no intention for it to change ownership in perpetuity.
Mr. Audy: I would like to point out that Mr. Bélanger is doing a great job of directing the questions at this end of the table. Thank you.
The role of the federal government will not change. This is a bill to recognize Beechwood Cemetery as the national cemetery of Canada. It is an honourific that we are conferring upon Beechwood Cemetery.
This is not unlike the National Historic Sites program for which Parks Canada is responsible. There are 946 National Historic Sites across the country of which Beechwood Cemetery is one and the National Field of Honour is another. Parks Canada actually administers 163 of those National Historic Sites. The other sites are administered by not-for-profit foundations, private companies and provincial or municipal governments. They are all responsible for the management of those sites. The federal government is not involved implicitly or explicitly in the management of those sites. Therefore, with respect to federal responsibilities, this bill was designed with that concept in mind.
Senator Cordy: Are physical changes to be made to Beechwood Cemetery following this designation, or does it go along with other historic sites wherein basically the work has been done and you now have an official designation or perhaps a plaque?
Mr. Audy: Recognition of the site is the extent of the bill.
Mr. Bélanger: If I may, I do not wish to disagree here, but I do believe that Beechwood Cemetery and its officers will be subject to much greater scrutiny by this legislation. This will come not only from the local Member of Parliament, but from all senators, all parliamentarians and all Canadians who have an interest in honouring our dead. I am satisfied that the people currently involved in the management and on the board of the foundation who hold the lands in perpetuity are perfectly aware of the responsibility that is being bestowed upon them.
[Translation]
To follow up on Senator Corbin's remarks, I have no problem with the Canadian Parliament doing its job. I believe that it is not unusual for a senate or house committee to exercise its privilege. Its duty is to scrutinize a bill.
[English]
It is moments like these that make me proud to be a parliamentarian. Thank you.
The Chair: I have a supplementary question on the status. As a former municipal counsellor, this is a logical question. I cannot recall a cemetery's position with respect to property tax. Is it payment in lieu, or is it totally tax exempt? What is the status now for Beechwood Cemetery, and does it change with this designation?
Ms. Ceacero: We are a not-for-profit charitable institution. Therefore, nothing will change with this designation.
The Chair: Therefore, there is no payment in lieu or no tax payment at all. The federal government does not make any payment.
Ms. Ceacero: Exactly.
[Translation]
Senator Segal: As you know, this city was the first capital of Canada.
My question is short. Am I to understand that veterans, non-military and other personnel serving Canada, no matter their religion — Christian, Muslim, Jew — will be welcome?
Second, I have gathered the following from General Baril.
[English]
If we look at the Cataraqui Cemetery in Kingston, in which we have an extensive veterans and military section, we have a few other people of substance there, such as the first prime minister of Canada, Sir John A. Macdonald. Nothing in this bill in any way limits the potential of government to decide to make some other type of designation for cemeteries like Cataraqui Cemetery across the country as may be appropriate and deemed appropriate by Parliament at the time. That is my understanding.
Mr. Cuppens: In my text, I explained how the Last Post Fund manages the commonality of each person interred there. We do it through the common gravestone, where we indicate the regiment of service, religion and age, and we only allow stones to be inscribed in two languages. We are also allowing spouses of men and women who served to be interred beside their loved one.
As you look across Canada, many entities, whether they be the Legion, Last Post Fund or the Army, Navy & Air Force Veterans in Canada Association, ANAVETS, have been able to negotiate a section of a cemetery to be called a field of honour. We have a number of those satellites ourselves.
Each of those cemeteries and committees have established rules as to who may be interred there. Some allow spouses; some do not. In fact, I just recently experienced a situation in our province where one of these fields of honour is managed by a board of directors who have written rules as to who may be interred there. We had a soldier of the modern era who wished to be interred with his parents. Unfortunately, that could not happen right away because their rules were for the veteran and the spouse only. We have changed that.
Across Canada, many rules exist in each of these cemeteries. They are not driven by this organization or the Legion; the rules are made by those who have negotiated the property. They are property-managed, but, again, if National Defence wishes a headstone marker of a certain type, our organization does that on their behalf.
We are a different nation than others. We do not have to copy the model south of us. We do not have to copy a model overseas. For instance, I heard one of the senators speak about Arlington National Cemetery, which is part of their national cemetery system. As General Baril pointed out, they have a number of satellites almost in every state. That cemetery is reserved for military people.
We are not talking about military people at Beechwood Cemetery; we are talking about Canadians. It is a symbol of national unity. All Canadians can be proud that they have a cemetery where they can be interred. As I said, I just wish to be vocal and say that this is a good thing for Canada, and we are totally behind it.
Senator Segal: Thank you for that. I am supportive of this initiative, as I think are all senators. I do not think there is any partisan division at all on this. I want to congratulate Mr. Mauril Bélanger. Some former presidents of the student government of the University of Ottawa do great things. Mr. Bélanger is one of them.
I want to say to General Baril that if you survived your entire military career and being ambushed by Ms. Grete Hale, that speaks to significant valour and resilience on your part.
Mr. Audy: In answer again to the senator about whether this piece of legislation would hamper future abilities by the government, it would not. Once again, Bill C-17 is specific to Beechwood Cemetery in recognizing it as the national cemetery. We heard some evocative testimonials this morning about the need for creating a network or family of national military cemeteries. I would submit that would be the object of separate discussions and, indeed, of a program, if we were to go in that direction. That is something that Parks Canada would support, I am sure.
Senator Fairbairn: It is good to see you, general.
I wanted to say that I am still an honorary colonel and am still hanging in there. I would like all of you to know that people are aware of what is happening here today. People in my area, in Southwestern Alberta, are very much aware of what is happening here and find it admirable and exciting.
I think you will find across the country that there are cemeteries for the military. For many years now, we have had a military place for the soldiers and their families in the foothills of the Rockies. It is an enormously important matter to whatever community they are in. To hear that this is happening in Ottawa and in Canada — for the whole country — means a great deal to those who are in the military now and those who are veterans.
Those people follow your enthusiasm, as well, in trying to make similar places in smaller areas. However, I am quite sure they will feel honoured to be attached to what is happening here in the nation's capital because it gives a very special lift to the memory. I think it is wonderful.
Senator Stratton: I wish to thank Mr. Mauril Bélanger, particularly, for this. He and I have worked and travelled together on a few issues and, despite, being from opposite sides, we get along fairly well. Thank you, Mr. Bélanger. You have done the nation a great honour.
This proves once again the value of the Senate. This bill was referred to committee for an appropriate airing, and that is critical for all bills; I firmly believe that.
I wish to address the issue of regional cemeteries across the country. This has been addressed before. I have seen fields of honour in other provinces, for example, Brookside Cemetery in Winnipeg. You walk through that field of honour. It is really awe-inspiring to do that, to look at friends and relatives who have gone before. It is quite a memorial to their lives, as a group. I am pleased to hear something is in process as to the recognition of those across the country.
What stage is that at, and in what direction are we going? Mr. Audy, do we have an idea as to what is happening there, for the future?
Mr. Audy: Pardon me. I missed the last part.
Senator Stratton: You said that plans are coming down the track in the recognition of these other regional or provincial city cemeteries. That was my understanding, but perhaps I was wrong.
Mr. Audy: Two people here can answer that.
Mr. Cuppens: Mr. Audy is connected with this because we both were engaged by the media yesterday, in advance of our testimony here today. My chore was to try to correct what was misquoted in the papers. In the article Mr. Audy told me about this morning, both of us were quoted, and we both spoke about the network of cemeteries across Canada, especially in the military context.
It is my understanding from a retired military chaplain — whom I spoke with just last month — that National Defence is working very hard to establish, not only the national military cemetery in Beechwood Cemetery but a family of cemeteries across Canada, so that a young man from Manitoba can be interred in Brookside Cemetery — I know the place well — or in Brampton, Ontario, or elsewhere. They have been working hard at this and have been extensively consulting. I cannot give you more information than that. However, eventually that will come to pass.
Gen. Baril: It was the plan from the beginning that a national military cemetery in Ottawa would extend across the nation, because it is difficult to convince a family from Chicoutimi or Calgary to bring their loved one to Ottawa. A formal project, directed by the Chief of Defence Staff probably three years ago, put the project in place.
Gerry Pedal, retired chaplain general, is managing the project from the National Defence point of view. From Veterans Affairs, I do not know who is managing it. They are old enough to do it well, and I am not involved in that project. The idea that was part of the original plan for a national military cemetery in Ottawa is moving ahead.
Senator Corbin: Since there will now be a national cemetery officially upon Royal Assent, will you have any control on inscriptions put on memorials in the cemetery?
The concern I raise is the following: There is a memorial erected in the cemetery for so-called "fallen comrades." The fallen comrades in question are members of the Communist Party of Canada, Marxist-Leninist.
"Fallen comrades" is usually understood to be soldiers, policemen, RCMP. I am a little bothered that revolutionary groups, or groups that pretend to be, would refer to their deceased as fallen comrades.
Is it possible to copyright wording or designation of that sort so that it is used appropriately for people who reflect our sense of what we are all about in Canada — something that would lead to limitations of the use of the terms? Do you have any comment on that?
Mr. Cuppens: I am also a member of another veterans' organization called the Royal Canadian Legion.
Senator Corbin: In addition, you are a good New Brunswicker.
Mr. Cuppens: Correct. They have chosen, in the Royal Canadian Legion, when it was founded from the British Empire Services League back in 1925, to address one another as "comrade," thereby not empowering an individual by rank or gender. They speak to each other as "comrade"; whether you are a general retired or a private retired, you are a comrade.
At the time of memorials or remembrance, they speak to and toast fallen comrades — fallen brothers and sisters, if you will. That is the evolution of why that inscription is probably at Beechwood Cemetery and other cemeteries across Canada. It has nothing to do with a state of communism or denigrating anyone; it is an address used for the unique comrades-in-arms that we have all shared.
Senator Munson: I was curious — this is addressed to the chair — since we will have a two-week break, and we will have a vote here this morning, I assume, in terms of the procedure, it would be a wonderful gesture to move this into the Senate quickly this afternoon and have it passed before the Easter weekend.
The Chair: That is my intention. I do not want to presume upon the committee in terms of its decision, but is the committee ready for clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-17?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: First, I will thank all of our guests who are witnesses today. I might note that we invited the people who operate Notre-Dame Cemetery, which is close to Beechwood Cemetery, but they declined to attend. We know that is a burial place for some notable Canadians, including Yousuf Karsh and Sir Wilfrid Laurier.
Members of the committee, we will proceed to clause by clause in the usual fashion.
Shall the title stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the preamble stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 2 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 3 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Back to clause 1. Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the preamble carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: There is no amendment. Shall the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Is it agreed that I report this bill — there are no observations — to the Senate, which I will do today?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
That is it. Thank you very much. Bill C-17 has been recommended for approval.
That is not the end of the committee meeting. I have another item.
The committee, at its last meeting, adopted a budget with respect to our operations, particularly our two subcommittees — on cities and on population health. Unfortunately, the Internal Economy Committee, which has to deliberate and approve them, is not meeting this week. Therefore, we are unable to get that through.
I do need a quorum to consider one aspect, a meeting that was scheduled to be in Regina and Winnipeg on April 14 and 15. We will have to forego that and reschedule it at another time. There will be no meetings in the two-week period.
However, there is a conference that was also part of the agenda on the Cities Subcommittee portion. The Canadian Housing and Renewal Association meeting is being held in Toronto from April 15 to 18. I am attending. I am a speaker, in fact, on a panel there, so I do not need any authorization to go. I will be there.
We have canvassed other members of the Subcommittee on Cities and have not heard of anyone who is also able to go. However, I would like our researcher to go because I think it will be valuable for our deliberations on poverty, housing and homelessness.
I need authorization to submit. Even though the Internal Economy Committee is not meeting, if it is under $10,000, they have a fast-track system and can get it through. Is it agreed that we will submit a budget for the researcher to attend?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator Fairbairn: What are the dates?
The Chair: April 15 to 18, in the break week. Are you interested in going?
Senator Fairbairn: I intended to get some information on it from your office.
The Chair: I can do that, but committee members will have to leave it to me to add Senator Fairbairn if she wishes to go. Is it okay?
Senator Fairbairn: I will just go.
The Chair: If you want to be registered, unless you want to pay the registration yourself or your travel expenses, we can do that as part of it.
Oh, I am sorry; you are not a member of the subcommittee. You are a member of the main committee but not the subcommittee.
Senator Fairbairn: That is right. Okay.
The Chair: I am sorry about that.
That is it. We have agreed on the researcher, and we are finished. We reconvene as the Subcommittee on Cities at 10:30 a.m.
(The committee adjourned.)