Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Social Affairs, Science and Technology
Issue 17 - Evidence - December 1, 2010
OTTAWA, Wednesday, December 1, 2010
The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, to which was referred Bill C-36, An Act respecting the safety of consumer products, met this day at 4:25 p.m. to give clause-by-clause consideration to the bill.
Senator Art Eggleton (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Senators, as agreed at the last meeting of the committee, although I was not here on that occasion, we will begin today's meeting by resuming clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-36, An Act respecting the safety of consumer products.
As a reminder, the last clause that was considered by the committee, when Senator Ogilvie was in the chair, was clause 37. Logically, we will start with clause 38.
Shall clause 38 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 39 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 40 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 41 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 42 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 43 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 44 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed
The Chair: Shall clause 45 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 46 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 47 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 48 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 49 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 50 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 51 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 52 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 53 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 54 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 55 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 56 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 57 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 58 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 59 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 60 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 61 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 62 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 63 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 64 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 65 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 66 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 67 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 68 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 69 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 70 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 71 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 72 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 73 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 74 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 75 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 76 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall schedule 1 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall schedule 2 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 1 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the preamble carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the bill carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Day: No.
The Chair: On division?
Senator Day: I would like to have a recorded vote on this, Mr. Chairman. I would like to have the recorded vote because I do not believe that this committee has done the job it could do and should do with respect to this bill. For that reason, although I support the principle, I cannot support the bill as we are sending it back.
The Chair: Does that complete your remarks?
Senator Day: Yes, unless you have a question.
Senator Cordy: I think we all believe very strongly in the principle behind Bill C-36. We believe that when a Canadian — anyone, for that matter — shops, they should feel confident that the consumer product they are buying is a safe product. We all believe firmly in that.
I look back at what we did this time last year, I believe it was with Bill C-6, and this committee deserves a lot of credit. We used sober second thought and we made many amendments.
Although the minister said last year that the amendments that this committee made were not good, she incorporated them in Bill C-36.
I think what the Senate does best is sober second thought. We look at a bill and we determine whether or not we can make the bill as good as it can be; we have a responsibility to do that.
I am very disappointed with the process that was followed in the deliberations on Bill C-36. I received hundreds of emails, together with phone calls and faxes, asking that Shawn Buckley appear before the committee. I made a motion to that effect before the committee. That motion was defeated by the Conservative majority on this committee, and that is their absolute right to do that.
However, I also found it a bit frustrating that we had four panels, three of which were government panels. One panel was made up of people from outside of government. I think that is unfortunate because I believe that we have a responsibility to people who wish to appear and make presentations before our committee.
I believe that due process has not been done. Therefore, while I agree with the bill in principle, I disagree with the way in which it was rushed through this committee.
Senator Eaton: I would like to thank everybody for their time and attention. Senator Day, especially, as critic, has taken a lot of time, as well as Senator Cordy.
However, I would like to remind my honourable colleagues that we heard many witnesses, including Shawn Buckley last year at this time. If you say that the bill has been improved, I do not see why we should waste this committee's time hearing Mr. Buckley get on one of his hobbyhorses over and over again. I am sorry, that is the way I feel. We would be wasting time.
Senator Callbeck: I support the principle of the bill, and I think everyone here does. However, as I have expressed before, I had dozens of emails from people across the country wanting us to hear Mr. Shawn Buckley, who is, as you know, a constitutional lawyer, and he appeared before on the other bill. They feel it was important for him to be heard on Bill C-36.
It has been brought to our attention that there are concerns about whether this bill is unconstitutional. I think it is important that we hear from him. If we do not, I do not consider that we are really doing our duty.
As I have expressed before to the committee, I would like for us to hear from him. As Senator Cordy has said, we had four panels and three were from the government. We have only had one panel from the general public.
I support the principle, but I do not think we have done justice to this bill.
Senator Martin: I want to acknowledge, as Senator Eaton has, the work of the committee members, and especially the critic of this bill for his thorough examination. I also want to bring to everyone's attention that the process that has been in place has been a multi-year process.
Last year when we looked at Bill C-6, we had several more sessions as a committee. Between that time and this round, we heard from the officials and the other witnesses, the stakeholders, that the consultation has been an ongoing multi-year process.
I have met with stakeholders individually in studying this bill, as sponsor. I have had a chance to read through the emails that you speak of, but I also feel that we received, in our office, many emails that were in support from a number of different stakeholders.
I am confident in the process that has been undertaken at this point. I have also been involved when this committee has taken fewer sessions to look at bills that have been thoroughly examined in the past. As Senator Day and others have noted, the minister and officials did take advice from the committee on the previous bill and many of those amendments were incorporated.
However, so as not to diminish or dilute the effect of the process with this bill, we all know it is 40-plus years overdue, and we need to strengthen our system in line with the international jurisdictions and regimes that are out there. I am confident in the work that has been done, not only during our committee sessions but prior to them and over the years.
I ask all senators around this table for your support in seeing quick passage of this bill.
Senator Merchant: Mr. Chair, I, too, want to say that a lot of good work has been done regarding this bill and that some of the changes were made because of the examination of the previous bill.
However, this is the first time I had sat in on this bill and I had not heard Mr. Buckley, although I did read his presentation from his previous appearance. I think we ought to have given him a chance because he is very qualified. I could not understand why he was singled out as an individual we need not hear from again.
For that reason, while I support the merits of this bill, I think that we did not really give it due process, so I will not be able to support it.
Senator Day: Just to clarify the record, I wonder if we could have the clerk tell us if there have been any further written submissions, because they should form part of our consideration.
On the last occasion, I read in six that we had received. I was a little late getting here because I was trying to find out what else had been received. My records indicate that three more have been received. I presume these are people who had requested to appear but were told, ``Sorry, we cannot hear from you but send in a written submission.'' The others names I have are Natural Health Products, the David Suzuki Foundation, and the Consumer Interest Alliance.
Jessica Richardson, Clerk of the Committee: None of them asked to appear; they just did written submissions.
Senator Day: Those written submissions have been received, as I understand it.
Ms. Richardson: Yes.
Senator Day: Have they been circulated to everyone?
Ms. Richardson: Yes, they have been.
Senator Day: Everyone has received those, so we can apply proper consideration to all of the submissions — other than the hundreds and hundreds of people who have written and emailed us, making submissions, and we are trying to bring forward their point of view of here.
Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my dilemma. I believe, as Senator Martin has pointed out, that this Hazardous Products Act legislation required updating; we just want to ensure we do the very best thing. To spend an extra day or two in a democratic process is never a waste of time, in my view. Only then will we all be assured that we have achieved the best we can do here in the Senate for the people of Canada.
Senator Ogilvie: Question.
The Chair: Before I call the question, I would like to mention that I will not participate in the vote, since I have not been here for the last two meetings. As you know, I have been involved with the Banking Committee on Bill S-216.
We will now call the question and do the recorded vote.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Braley.
Senator Braley: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Callbeck.
Senator Callbeck: No.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Champagne.
Senator Champagne: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Cordy.
Senator Cordy: No, and only because of the process, not because of the content of the bill.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Day.
Senator Day: No, for the reasons I have expressed.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Eaton.
Senator Eaton: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Housakos.
Senator Housakos: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Martin.
Senator Martin: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Merchant.
Senator Merchant: No, because of the process only.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Ogilvie.
Senator Ogilvie: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: The Honourable Senator Seidman.
Senator Seidman: Yes.
The Chair: Seven yeas; four nays. I declare the bill carried.
Does the committee wish to consider appending observations to the report?
Hon. Senators: No.
The Chair: There are no amendments and no observations, so is it agreed that I report this bill to the Senate?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: That deals with Bill C-36. It will now be sent to the Senate.
We will now suspend for a few moments and then will resume in camera to consider the draft report on post- secondary education.
(The committee continued in camera.)