Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and Constitutional Affairs
Issue 14 - Minutes of Proceedings, February 27, 2012
OTTAWA, Monday, February 27, 2012
(34)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met at 8:34 a.m. this day, in room 257, East Block, the chair, the Honourable John D. Wallace, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Angus, Baker, P.C., Boisvenu, Chaput, Cowan, Dagenais, Fraser, Frum, Jaffer, Lang, Runciman and Wallace (12).
In attendance: Robin MacKay, Cynthia Kirkby, Tanya Dupuis and Dominique Valiquet, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Friday, December 16, 2011, the committee continued its consideration of Bill C-10, An Act to enact the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act and to amend the State Immunity Act, the Criminal Code, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and other Acts. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 9.)
WITNESSES:
Department of Justice Canada:
Catherine Kane, Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section;
Paul Saint-Denis, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section;
Paula Kingston, Senior Counsel, Youth Justice and Strategic Initiatives Section.
The chair made an opening statement.
Pursuant to the committee's decision of Friday, February 24, 2012, the committee continued its consideration of postponed clauses of Bill C-10, An Act to enact the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act and to amend the State Immunity Act, the Criminal Code, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and other Acts.
The chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 2, on page 3,
(a) by replacing line 26 with the following:
"(a) any listed entity, or foreign state whose immunity is lifted under section 6.1 of the State Immunity Act, or other person that"; and
(b) by replacing line 29 with the following:
"(b) a foreign state whose immunity is lifted under section 6.1 of the State Immunity Act, or listed entity or other".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 2, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended, on page 5, by adding before line 10 the following new clause:
"3.1 Section 2 of the Act is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order:
"terrorist activity" in respect of a foreign state has the same meaning as in subsection 83.01(1) of the Criminal Code, provided that a foreign state set out on the list referred to in subsection 6.1(2) does the act or omission on or after January 1, 1985.".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment that new clause 3.1 carry, it was adopted.
The chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.
It was agreed that clause 3 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 5 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 5, on page 7, by adding after line 8 the following:
"(11) Where a court of competent jurisdiction has determined that a foreign state, set out on the list in subsection (2), has supported terrorism, that foreign state is also not immune from the jurisdiction of a court in proceedings against it that relate to terrorist activity by the state."
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 5, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 6 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 6, on page 7, by replacing line 15 with the following:
"that foreign state for its support of terrorism or its terrorist activity.".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 6, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 7 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 7, on page 7,
(a) by replacing line 22 with the following:
"used by it to support terrorism or engage in terrorist activity;"; and
(b) by replacing line 31 with the following:
"support of terrorism or its terrorist activity and to property other".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 7, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 9 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 9, on page 8, by replacing line 32 with the following:
"that foreign state for its support of terrorism or its terrorist activity."
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 9, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 21 carry.
It was agreed that clause 23 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 34 shall carry.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Wallace, Angus, Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, Lang
and Runciman — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Chaput, Cowan, Fraser and Jaffer — 5
ABSTENTIONS — Nil
The chair asked whether clause 39 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Baker P.C. moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 39, on page 22, by replacing lines 30 to 33 with the following:
"designated substance offence within the previous 10 years and served a term of imprisonment of one year or more for that offence, or".
Ms. Kane and Mr. Saint-Denis were invited to the table and answered questions. For the remainder of the meeting, they answered questions from time to time.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 39 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 41 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 41, on page 24, by replacing line 40 with the following:
"than 201 and more than 20, and the".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived.
It was agreed that clause 41 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 42 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 43 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Jaffer moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 43, on page 27, by adding after line 6 the following:
"(6) A court sentencing a person who is convicted of an offence under this Part for which a minimum punishment is prescribed by law is not required to impose the minimum punishment if the court is of the opinion that
(a) there are exceptional circumstances relating to the offence or the offender; and
(b) imposing the minimum punishment, having regard to all the circumstances, would be excessive or unreasonable.".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 43 carry.
The Honourable Senator Chaput moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 43, on page 27, by adding after line 6 the following:
"(6) A court sentencing a person who is convicted of an offence under this Part is not required to impose the minimum punishment for the offence if it is satisfied that
(a) the person to be sentenced is an aboriginal offender;
(b) the sentence would be excessively harsh because of the offender's circumstances; and
(c) another sanction is reasonable in the circumstances and available.
(7) If, under subsection (6), the court decides not to impose a minimum punishment, it shall give reasons for that decision".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 43 carry.
The Honourable Senator Jaffer moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 43, on page 27, by adding after line 6 the following:
"(6) A court sentencing a person who is convicted of an offence under this Part may, if satisfied that the person requires mental health care, delay sentencing to enable the offender to participate in a mental health program approved by the Attorney General or to receive mental health treatment.
(7) If the offender successfully completes a program under subsection (6) or if the mental health treatment is ongoing, the court is not required to impose the minimum punishment for the offence for which the person was convicted."
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 43 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 54 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 54, on page 32,
(a) by replacing lines 4 and 5 with the following:
"of the sentencing judge, the degree of respon-"; and
(b) by replacing line 19 to 23 with the following:
"(c) the Service uses the least restrictive measures that are consistent with the protection of society, staff members and offenders;".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 54 carry, on division.
At 11:05 a.m., the committee suspended.
At 11:21 a.m., the committee resumed.
The chair asked whether clause 57 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 57,
(a) on page 34,
(i) by replacing line 35 with the following:
"(ii.3) the programs that are relevant to the offence committed by the offender and that were designed to", and
(ii) by deleting lines 42 and 43; and
(b) on page 35, by deleting lines 1 to 6.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 57 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 64 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 69 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 69, on page 38, by adding after line 43 the following:
"(m.2) respecting the collection, use, storage, disclosure, disposal and destruction of information obtained by means of a monitoring device referred to in section 57.1;".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 69 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 92 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 115 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 115, on page 65, by replacing line 34 with the following:
"(b) three years, in the case of an offence that is".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 115 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 115 be reconsidered.
The chair asked whether clause 115 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 115, on page 66, by replacing line 2 with the following:
"(b) more than three offences, each of which arose out of a different event or series of events, each of which".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 115 carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 115, on page 66, by deleting lines 23 to 25.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 115 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 131 carry.
It was agreed that clause 132 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 136 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 136, on page 75,
(a) by replacing line 18 with the following:
"serving their sentence; or"; and
(b) by replacing lines 21 to 23 with the following;
"enforcement agency.".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 136 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 166 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 167 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 167, on page 87,
(a) by replacing line 22 with the following:
"that includes as an element the intentional causing of"; and
(b) by replacing line 29 with the following:
"likelihood of causing bodily harm and that includes wilfulness as an element of the offence."
Ms. Kingston was invited to the table and answered questions. For the remainder of the meeting, she answered questions from time to time.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 167 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 168 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 168,
(a) on page 87, by replacing
(i) line 33 with the following:
"intended to ensure the long-term protection of the public by";
(ii) line 35, in the French version, with the following:
" (i) obligeant les adolescents à répondre de"; and
(iii) line 39, in the French version, with the following:
"(ii) favorisant la réadaptation et la réin-"; and
(b) on page 88, by replacing line 1, in the French version, with the following:
"(iii) contribuant à la prévention du crime".
At 12:35 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 1:15 p.m., the committee resumed consideration of the motion in amendment to clause 168.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 168 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 169 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 169, on page 88,
(a) by replacing lines 20 and 21 with the following:
"(i) a serious offence or a violent offence, or
(ii) an offence other than a serious offence or a violent offence,";
(b) by replacing line 37 with the following:
"tody, commit a serious offence or a violent offence, or"; and
(c) by replacing line 39 with the following:
"has been charged with a serious offence or a violent offence".
After debate and with leave, the amendment was withdrawn.
It was agreed that clause 169 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 172 shall cary.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Wallace, Angus, Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, Lang
and Runciman — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Chaput, Cowan and Fraser — 4
ABSTENTIONS — Nil
The chair asked whether clause 185 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 185, on page 94, by replacing line 17 with the following:
"has attained the age of 14 years and has been found guilty of a violent offence, the".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived.
The chair asked whether clause 185 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved:
That Bill C-10 be amended in clause 185, on page 94, by adding after line 36 the following:
"(5) The lieutenant governor in council of a province may, by order, exempt the province from the application of this section or fix an age greater than 14 years for the purpose of its application.".
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.
It was agreed that clause 185 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 186 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 206 carry, on division.
It was agreed that the schedule carry.
It was agreed that clause 1, which contains the short title carry, on division.
It was agreed that the title carry.
The chair asked whether the bill, as amended, shall carry.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Wallace, Angus, Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, Lang
and Runciman — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Chaput, Cowan, Fraser and Jaffer — 5
ABSTENTIONS — Nil
It was agreed that the committee authorize the law clerk to renumber clauses to reflect clauses that have been amended from the bill, with any cross-references to be numbered accordingly.
It was agreed that the committee move in camera to discuss appending observations to its report on Bill C-10.
It was agreed that senators' staff be permitted to remain in the room during the in camera portion of today's meeting.
At 1:47 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 2:24 p.m., the committee resumed, in camera, pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), to consider a draft report.
At 3:52 p.m., the committee continued in public.
It was agreed that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to approve the final version of the observations being appended to the report, taking into consideration today's discussion and any necessary editorial, grammatical or translation changes as required.
It was agreed that the chair report this bill, as amended and with observations, to the Senate.
At 3:52 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Shaila Anwar
Clerk of the Committee