Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 5 - Evidence - Meeting of December 12, 2011
OTTAWA, Monday, December 12, 2011
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4:36 p.m. to examine the use of the Internet, new media and social media and the respect for Canadians' language rights.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Maria Chaput, from Manitoba, chair of this committee. Before introducing the witness appearing today, I would like to invite committee members to introduce themselves.
Senator Poirier: Senator Rose-May Poirier from New Brunswick.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec.
Senator Losier-Cool: Rose-Marie Losier-Cool from New Brunswick.
The Chair: The committee is studying the Internet, new media and social media and the respect for Canadians' language rights. Today we welcome Anne Robineau, a researcher with the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities at the Université de Moncton, where she focuses on francophone artistic communities in New Brunswick and arts and culture audiences in francophones outside Quebec. Ms. Robineau is also interested in the cultural vitality of official language minority communities as well as language choices in the use of new media.
Thank you for agreeing to be here today. The committee members are anxious to hear about your work, and they will follow your presentation with questions.
Anne Robineau, Researcher, Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities, Université de Moncton: Thank you for your invitation. Today I will focus on artistic practices and cultural consumption via the Internet in francophone minority communities, although there are some elements that could be compared to anglophone communities in Quebec.
I will refer to some research throughout my presentation. One research study will be published soon and has to do with francophone artists in minority communities in Canada, in which I address the topic of technology. Technology is not the subject of the research, but it is related because technology is becoming increasingly important. So it inevitably comes up in the research.
I will speak about three points that have to do with both creators and web users, and particularly their attitudes towards cultural consumption.
When we look at what is going on with artists or content creators for Internet platforms, we see that there is a trend towards multi-platform creation.
Artists are using traditional media, of course, but they are increasingly combining several web tools and will also use other mobile applications. Thus, they combine methods of creating, which is transforming methods for proposing cultural content more than ever, whether it is in French or English.
Francophone artists are also often following the movement. In the research I will soon publish, it is estimated that there are 560 artists working solely in the area of media arts. But I should point out that technology is being used in other art forms as well, such as dance, music or shows that offer multimedia projections.
In addition, I also want to distinguish between art that uses digital tools to disseminate information on works, and art that specifically uses web tools for creating works that can only exist on the web. They are two different things: digital art and digital tools to disseminate works and culture.
There is also the creation of a cultural and artistic heritage, since this allows for the archiving of all sorts of content. For example, if you visit websites for cultural and artistic organizations in francophone minority communities, you will see that they have clearly gotten onboard. You can find files for artists, in which there is information on the type of work.
For example, you can visit the brand new site of the Acadian artists' association, the AAAPNB, where you can access a number of profiles of artists from New Brunswick. They are not all there, but there are some, and they are from all different disciplines.
There are some trends when we look at users. We see that there are target audiences and communities of interest forming around certain artistic practices and certain works. People who have specific tastes for works will use the web to create a network and to exchange and critique content.
I would now like to talk about risks, and that is not always in French. I would say that this is a trend that is difficult to measure because there are not enough studies, but nevertheless, young people are consuming cultural products in English when it comes to certain media, such as music, for example.
This is evident not only in francophone minority communities, but also in Quebec. This is a trend that is difficult to buck, but we must pay even more attention to it in a minority community because of the particularities of the communities, exogamous couples and the fact that French is being transmitted less in certain regions.
So, there are many things that, along with the web, offer potential, but are exposed to certain risks that have not been properly assessed with respect to cultural consumption.
However, around the world, we are seeing increased use of social media and all kinds of new technologies, through blogs, networks such as Facebook, and so on. The trend is there. So that is something to monitor while keeping in mind that even if these tools exist, that does not mean that individuals will inevitably consume more culture or will systematically have access to more cultural content.
There have been studies, particularly in France, to observe cultural habits. People who are already big cultural consumers will use social media to access more culture or to find easier access to information on the works they like.
Technological tools will not automatically convert an audience for works and art in general. That is something we would have to examine, because they could be interesting tools to promote arts and culture in francophone minority communities.
We must try to change the trend, for audiences that are already converted to works in general, and for others that could more interested because they already enjoy using these new technologies.
Then, if you look at access, it is clear that everyone does not necessarily use new technologies and social media, for various reasons. Educational background plays a big part in that.
There is also a large part of the population that is excluded because of a high illiteracy rate. For example, in New Brunswick, it is estimated that approximately 66 per cent of francophones are at the lowest levels, known as levels 1 and 2. These are people who can recognize only one or two words in a given content or who will read only short paragraphs.
In general, we could assume that part of the population is excluded right off the bat, because of the written word. With new technologies, the written word is rather dominant, even though there are tools such as touch screens with icons and so on, and in theory, everyone could access them, but I would say that the phenomenon could also include other risks with respect to poor interpretation of rights to use certain content or with respect to privacy and other things exchanged within social media.
Some regions may not yet have access to high-speed Internet. Online content is becoming increasingly sophisticated. Sometimes it takes a very long time, and a lot of space and memory to download it. It is difficult for these regions to access this content. There is therefore an inequality in this regard as well.
I would like to talk about factors that directly affect the ability to produce online content and artists' ability to make a living from their art. We are used to being able to access online content for free. Sometimes, we have to pay a fee but, in general, content is easily accessible. This causes all sorts of problems for those who created the information that we can read and consult online. Another downside is that it puts at a disadvantage artists who work in a minority environment and who already have difficulty coming up with the resources to produce their works or content that could be shared via these digital technologies.
Recommendations could be made in several areas. Let us first talk about training needs. The tools are there but changes are occurring and we must adapt. Some people who would like to use these tools are already further along in their careers. There is thus a need for training for very young artists or simply for consumers of culture as well as for people who are further along in their careers and looking for professional development opportunities. These needs exist for artists and for those who manage these artistic environments and who are responsible, for example, for centralizing information or assessing grants. This training would be directed at both community organizations and public organizations of the federal government.
There are also needs related to scientific knowledge, namely, in order to determine the new cultural consumption trends. We are still having difficulty today in evaluating our francophone communities' cultural preferences. Many situations are permanent. Others are public and we are less familiar with them as they are a result of the transformation of francophone communities. Some factors are related to immigration, others to the fact that francophone communities are home to an increasing number of exogamous couples. These factors change how people relate to the language and how it enters the home, for example, which radio station a family listens to or which television programs they watch. It is thus important to have research that will help us to target certain actions in order to promote francophone works and culture.
We must also consider the fact that digital technologies have different effects on different artistic disciplines. Earlier, I spoke about the fact that the digital arts are becoming a discipline unto themselves. However, every other form of art will use digital technology to promote artists or share information about upcoming performances, for example. All this will constitute an artistic heritage that could, in other circumstances, also be used for educational purposes, particularly in schools.
This phenomenon can also be observed in other provinces. For example, last year, the Conseil des arts et des lettres du Québec sent a report to the Quebec Minister of Culture on the possibility of improving digital knowledge. As a result, some steps were taken that could be used for official language communities.
We have an overview of what is happening with the use of digital technology. There has been a series of consultations with the main stakeholders. A forum was organized to try to validate everything that was said during those consultations.
In England, there is an arts council that is very active in terms of the knowledge required to capture digital changes in arts and culture. Francophone communities also have magazines that address specific themes related to digital technology.
In closing, I would like to mention an excellent issue of Liaison — an art magazine for francophone minority communities — that focuses on copyright. It addressed copyright issues from the perspective of changes in digital technology.
The Chair: Thank you for your presentation.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I read somewhere that you received a $30,000 grant to provide an overview of the situation of francophone artists outside Quebec. Has this study begun?
Ms. Robineau: Yes.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Have you been able to determine whether the Internet influences francophone culture in Canada? Also, have you observed whether the Internet has served to develop a new francophone culture?
Ms. Robineau: I have been consulted a lot since my research deals with six disciplines in all the provinces and territories except Quebec, although I still looked at what was happening in Quebec for various reasons. It seems that community organizations are already firmly anchored in digital technology, mainly through online tools. We know that such is the case because of the information that can be obtained online about artists and the activities that they sometimes organize. One example is the RAFA, which is a cultural organization in Alberta that organizes online training sessions for artists. Networking is thus already being done.
Obviously, there is the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française, which is an organization that represents a group of Franco-Canadian artistic organizations that have a website, a blog. In my opinion, this allows information to be shared a bit more effectively. Will this result in a new culture? It is hard to tell. I noticed that there are still some inequalities.
People are willing to use these tools because they see the benefits. Francophone artists and culture can be promoted much more easily. At the same time, community organizations sometimes need significant resources to be able to use these tools, resources that they are often lacking. So, it depends on the people involved. They may be more or less comfortable with these technologies. They may suggest fairly innovative projects. They may sometimes only have time to manage daily operations and not to manage a website. Inequality exists from that perspective or at least from a resource perspective. However, the willingness is there because such technology provides a great deal of visibility.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Have you noticed whether francophone artists who use new media communicate more with other francophones outside Quebec? For example, do you see people in Alberta communicating with people in Saskatchewan? Would they go to the trouble of communicating with people in Quebec or New Brunswick? What have you observed in this regard?
Ms. Robineau: There are some networking opportunities and, at times, there is a need for more formal meetings. In June, I attended a forum on artistic practices organized by the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française. Approximately 200 stakeholders were there and about half of them were artists who were happy to have a chance to meet. Many had met online and had already been in regular contact through the network. Often, organizations will distribute letters of transmittal, and people can sign up to receive them. At this forum, many people knew each other despite the fact that they had never met in person. It was therefore much easier for them to make contact because they already knew what others were doing.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: When they have the opportunity to get together at a formal meeting, they must be happy to actually meet the people they have spoken to online.
Ms. Robineau: It has a mobilizing effect on future actions. The Internet not only allows people to network but it also allows the ties between various communities to be continually strengthened. However, I do not know if everyone has access to the networks or if everyone actively participates in them. Many do, but we do not have an estimate of the number of participants in that respect either.
The Chair: Can you tell us whether these artists who met online came from provinces where the network is stronger or was representation fairly equal across all the provinces and territories?
Ms. Robineau: There are always a lot of people in Ontario. There are also a lot of people from Acadian areas of the Maritimes but representation is still fairly equal. However, there are no participants from Nunavut even though there are a few artists who live there. There are artists from the territories and cultural stakeholders who head associations in the territories. It is always a problem but at least it allows them to have access. I know that it is more difficult in Nunavut.
I did a study on francophones in the territories and so I know that there are media in every territory. In the three territories, there are community media and online newspapers. Until just recently — about a year ago — there were also online media in Nunavut, but I think that they lacked resources and so we now have fewer sources of information about what is happening at present. It is important to have the local news in French, and I know that they have all sorts of demands, particularly with regard to Radio-Canada. It is very important to them.
Senator Losier-Cool: Welcome Ms. Robineau. I am always happy to see someone from our corner of the country. Could you briefly tell us about the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities? What is your relationship with the Canada Council for the Arts and with the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française that you mentioned?
Ms. Robineau: The institute was established nine years ago. The tenth anniversary will be celebrated next year. It is an independent organization located on the campus of the Université de Moncton. One of the founders is actually the current president of the university, Yvon Fontaine. We are a small team of researchers who conduct social science research on all official language minority communities in Canada. Although we are located in New Brunswick, our work actually deals with the entire country. We also conduct research on anglophones in Quebec.
The institute has three full-time researchers and approximately 40 associate fellows. Given that we are a small team, we do not have expertise in every area. We therefore seek the expertise of professors and researchers at other universities. Our research focuses on different areas of education, health, governance and the economy. I work specifically in the area of culture and youth and also a little bit in the area of education.
Senator Losier-Cool: Does funding for the institute come from Canadian Heritage or the university?
Ms. Robineau: It comes from Canadian Heritage. It is a trust fund that was granted when the institute was created and it allows us to research projects on the side.
There is therefore a fund that lends stability to official languages research.
I would like to add that, for three years, our research has been focusing a lot more on anglophones in Quebec. Concordia's Centre for Continuing Education is now home to a branch of the Institute that is coordinated by Lorraine O'Donnell, a historic researcher, who is trying to establish a network among researchers whose work focuses on anglophones in Quebec.
Senator Losier-Cool: Thank you for your answer. I would now like you to tell us a bit more about the recommendations that you made on page 2. You understand that our committee will make recommendations but we want to look at the recommendations that you are suggesting.
You referred to the need to provide creators with training on new technologies. Do you think that educational institutions are connected enough?
Ms. Robineau: No. I think universities, and even community colleges, should have training programs on these technologies. I know, for instance, that training in graphic design exists. Some of these things exist; we would not be starting from scratch. It is about creation, but it is also about all the administration surrounding these new services.
There are also people who should become specialized in copyright, for instance. Because there are different contexts in which an artistic work can be created from another one. In that case, what is the status of the work and what is the status of the artist who drew on something that already existed? There is a whole dimension there.
Senator Losier-Cool: I would like to know who is responsible for this kind of training. I understand there are community colleges, training institutions and universities.
But you are going even further now, talking about organizations that support the arts. What is the federal government's responsibility under Part VII of the Official Languages Act, which stipulates that the government must help these communities? Are these new technologies a government responsibility?
Ms. Robineau: Some things are being done. For example, Telefilm Canada is currently offering a workshop on networking, and some of the spaces are being offered to francophone minorities. It is part of their official languages program. So, some things are being done already. But, of course, it always depends on the resources available to the agencies.
Senator Losier-Cool: It always depends on the resources; it is always a question of money.
Ms. Robineau: More dialogue is probably needed in order to better identify what would be more effective or advantageous, or what would best meet the needs of these artists, these creators, in fact, all the stakeholders who work in the cultural sector and help enhance the vitality of these communities.
Senator Losier-Cool: Last week, an event was held in Montreal to help poverty-stricken artists, those who cannot meet their basic needs. I have to wonder, if artists in Montreal cannot get by, are there any francophone artists in minority communities who manage to make a living only on their art?
Ms. Robineau: Yes, there are a few, but compared to the Canadian and Quebec average, they have very low incomes. There is no question that they have huge needs in that regard. Being in a minority situation will sometimes accentuate certain problems. For instance, if it is a collaborative project, having the resources for training in French or even simply in order to join forces with other people who are working on the artistic project together, but who do not use French as their language of work.
Senator Losier-Cool: In music, primarily.
Ms. Robineau: In music, yes, and in film.
Senator Losier-Cool: With regard to cultural consumption, based on your research, are these the people who use social media the most? Or is it in education or in health? Would you say that the people who consume the most cultural products, who go to the most concerts, who buy the most books, and so on, are they the biggest users of these new technologies?
Ms. Robineau: There are currently no studies on this among francophones in minority communities. But based on trends that have been observed in Quebec and in France, often cultural behaviour, or how much people consume, is connected to education and income, and of course it depends on cultural offerings. Basically, if cultural offerings are plentiful, people are more likely to consume them, but it is linked to other factors, for instance, to how taste is transmitted by those we call our peers, in other words, our family, people at school, our friends. So that is why, just for young consumers, that is important, because peers can have a big influence. Other young people their age will tell them they like certain music or suggest they read a certain book, and that is how they will be influenced. And based on our observations, without having done any real studies on it, a lot of dialogue is taking place in English, or is being directed towards cultural products in English, among francophones.
Senator Losier-Cool: One last question, Madam Chair. I know this may not be the subject of your research, but in your opinion, do you think the Treasury Board consults, inquires or gets enough information from the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities, which studies linguistic minorities, to see if things are going well? Or, I should say, how things could be improved?
Ms. Robineau: Perhaps not often enough. It might be better to ask the board of directors, but probably I would say there is always room for improvement.
Senator Losier-Cool: Communication.
Senator Poirier: Senator Losier-Cool has already asked many of the questions I had intended to ask. I wanted to know about the federal government's role and obligations under the Official Languages Act. Is the government responding well? Do our educational institutions have the information they need, or is some missing? These are more or less the same questions Senator Losier-Cool was asking.
If you have any recommendations you can make, where we should begin, for instance, it would help ensure that our institutions are equipped to offer the training that people need.
Ms. Robineau: Yes, in fact, some things should be done at the same time, specifically, assessing what we already have for training in universities, in teaching institutions in general, that is, training on these new technologies.
We also need to know who is using them and how much. In my opinion, that is what could lead to improvements. We know that schools are completing more and more projects using new technologies. Schools have access to technological tools and content in French that correspond to their local reality.
For example, francophone university students outside Quebec could be looking at more things made in Quebec and intended for their age, but the Quebec reality would not necessarily resonate for them. So there are some needs there. A study by the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages pointed out that, even when French content exists, it is important that it correspond to a certain reality, one that is closer to them.
Senator Poirier: Did your research find that there is insufficient training on how to use the Internet and social media? Is it sometimes difficult to conduct research on a given topic or to find the translation of certain content? Is that a problem?
Ms. Robineau: Sometimes there is specific training or professional re-training that helps to train users pretty quickly. But what is most critical, in my opinion, is the huge amount of information available on the web, all the choices that exist on the web and that call into question the validity or legitimacy of certain sources.
These days, not all information has the same legitimacy, from a scientific standpoint. Some information is not considered false, just because the users do not know that a given site is more recommended than another.
I am talking about what are known as wiki technologies — Wikipedia, for instance — whereby people can add all kinds of content, which means that the sources are not necessarily always reliable. This is a problem in terms of training people who use these sources.
Senator Poirier: Are these federal government sources?
Ms. Robineau: No.
Senator Poirier: Is the information available across the federal government offered in both official languages? Did you notice any gaps, particularly in minority communities?
Ms. Robineau: I did not analyze that in particular, so I cannot say too much about it but, generally speaking, more is always offered in English. As for federal institutions, it would really require a more thorough analysis and not just speculation. It would be interesting to examine what could be done in French. Because sometimes content emerges in English first, and it would be easier to simply adapt it into French rather than starting all over. That should be examined more closely, not necessarily just in the arts sector, but in a number of different sectors.
Senator De Bané: Your text is very informative and gives us many things to think about. In light of all those things, do you have any recommendations to make to the Senate Committee on Official Languages?
There are so many things you identify and it is clear that you have reflected on these matters a great deal, that you are aware of all the studies other researchers have published. What policies should we recommend at the end of our deliberations?
Considering all of that, I have to wonder where we are headed. When I watch TV5, I see that, in Paris, there seems to be an infatuation with American films and English pop songs — they seem to be very chic in Paris — and I have to wonder, if that is the case internationally, what is going on in Canada?
For example, you brought to our attention the fact that the National Film Board and the Telefilm Canada's workshop reserved only 18 out of 560 spaces for francophones outside Quebec. That represents a third of 1 per cent. Among the entire francophone community in Canada, francophones outside Quebec make up 16 per cent and yet they get only 18 out of 560 spaces. That does not make sense.
In addition, the Government of Quebec funds all of that, but for the communities exposed to the outside, the fact that Telefilm Canada gives them only a third of 1 per cent, rather than 16 per cent, that surprises me. Did you have the same reaction as me?
Ms. Robineau: You are referring to a note I included regarding a workshop at Telefilm Canada. What is encouraging is that there is a workshop on networking and that, based on their resources, they have a certain number of spaces in those workshops. I said there were 18 spaces for francophone artists outside Quebec. As I recall, there are also 40 spaces for artists from Quebec.
According to a study on French-Canadian artists that is to be published soon, there are about 560 artists working in the media arts industry that would probably like to have some training, at least, and that is just the artists working in media arts.
Senator De Bané: So there are 560 artists outside Quebec?
Ms. Robineau: In media arts. There are a lot more in other disciplines.
Senator De Bané: So, 560 artists in media arts outside Quebec. Of that number, 18 are invited to take advantage of these workshops. That is a tiny amount.
Ms. Robineau: That could be one of your recommendations: more money invested in training, but also in digital technology in general.
Senator De Bané: It does not take any courage to speak French in Chicoutimi, but it is very difficult for someone who lives in Saint-Boniface, who wants to maintain their language and culture, who wants to participate in media and artistic productions, and so on.
You said that 96 per cent of youth aged 16 to 24 use the Internet and that, for older people, the percentage is much lower, around 29 per cent. The former is a generation that was born into it.
Apparently, a large percentage of children between two and five years old know how to use a computer. It worries me to think that this was not taken into consideration, when we look at, for example, the Canadian government's contribution to print creation, in relation to new media that did not exist when I was young.
In any case, do not hesitate to make as many recommendations as possible, because, obviously, you have given these issues some serious thought and you know them from every angle. It is worrisome that these young people do not have all the support they need to be able to use this media properly.
We need your recommendations. If there are any other documents you could forward to us between now and when our chair produces the report, we would really appreciate them. We are looking for very practical recommendations that could be part of our recommendations to the government. We are a non-partisan group here; we work together and try to come up with solutions to extremely complex issues.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I have a question that arose from Senator De Bané's intervention.
You mentioned that there were 560 spaces in media training at Telefilm Canada.
Ms. Robineau: There are 560 media artists, people who work in audio-visual, in film.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: You said there were 40 francophones from Quebec and 18 francophones from outside Quebec. If my math is correct, that means there are 502 anglophones? I do not think that is very fair.
Ms. Robineau: Those are the spaces.
The Chair: Could you send us some additional information, given that we are beginning to run out of time?
Ms. Robineau: Yes, no problem.
The Chair: That would allow Senator Fortin-Duplessis to ask her other question.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I wanted to know if the francophone cultural sector should be worried or pleased about the growing power of the Internet.
Ms. Robineau: Interesting. It is difficult to answer that quickly, but there is a positive side and a negative side.
On the positive side, the cost of networking can sometimes be a little lower. This probably allows people to access and promote francophone culture a little easier.
What I find to be a risk, from what we have observed, is that a new generation has come along and is consuming a lot more products in English. We really need to raise people's awareness about the use of one's language and promoting culture in French. But there are all kinds of other issues around all this that need to be analyzed more closely regarding access, cultural offerings in French that reflect our reality and that are probably insufficient at this time, that are poorly adapted to the tools by which they can be disseminated. So, there are some pros and cons to that.
The Chair: Can you give us a concrete example of what the federal government could do?
Ms. Robineau: There are so many things. I would say that what is most problematic is copyright, because we really need to strike a balance between consumers and the artists who create the content. So, we need to identify better ways to pay those who produce this content online, without interfering in the rights of francophones to access this French culture online, which can sometimes be difficult in certain regions. This aspect is really important.
Also, we need systematic analyses of the situation, of changes in behaviour regarding this cultural consumption. We do not have any such analyses at this time.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you very much. I would like to thank you and say just how much we appreciated your presentation.
Senator Losier-Cool: And keep up the good work.
The Chair: If you have any other information, please send it to the committee, since we have not yet completed our study. Thank you.
Honourable senators, we are going to suspend for a few moments and we will come back in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)