Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 7 - Evidence - Meeting of March 12, 2012
OTTAWA, Monday, March 12, 2012
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4:33 p.m. to examine the use of the Internet, new media and social media and the respect for Canadians' language rights; and also to consider the draft budget.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. Allow me to introduce myself. I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba, chair of the committee.
Before introducing the witnesses appearing today, I would like to invite committee members to introduce themselves.
Senator Nolin: Good afternoon, I am Senator Claude Nolin from the province of Quebec.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I am Senator Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec City.
Senator Poirier: Senator Rose-May Poirier from New Brunswick.
The Chair: The committee is studying the Internet, new media and social media and the respect for Canadians' language rights. The committee wishes to learn more, from this meeting, about the way the Government of Canada actually uses the web and social media.
[English]
The committee is particularly interested in the use of new technologies and respect for the language rights of Canadians and employees. It is also interested in new technologies as a means to foster participation and to reach out to official language minority communities.
The meeting today is divided into two panels. Four federal institutions will appear in each panel to talk about how they use new information, communications, and service-delivery technologies.
[Translation]
Today we are welcoming the following participants to this panel: we have representatives from Veterans Affairs Canada, the Bank of Canada, Transport Canada and Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada. We will be hearing from the next panel at around 5:45 p.m.
I would now invite the representatives from these institutions to each give their statement in turn and the senators will follow with questions.
Faith McIntyre, Director, Ste. Anne's Hospital Transfer Project, Corporate Services Branch, Veterans Affairs Canada: Thank you Madam Chair. I am pleased to be participating today in my capacity as Official Languages Champion for Veterans Affairs Canada.
Although Veterans Affairs Canada is headquartered on Prince Edward Island, a unilingual region, we hold a lot of respect for the role and our obligations in official languages. We actually have two official language champions — I have the pleasure of co-championing with a colleague who is based in Quebec. I am also the official language champion for the PEI Federal Council.
As you may know, our department is in the process of transforming in order to provide veterans and their families with faster and easier access to benefits and services. New media and web 2.0 functionality are key components in how the department is transforming.
The Internet is our primary tool — channel of communication — with the departmental website through which information is diffused to many audiences.
Not only does the Internet provide the ability to share information, it also provides online services for program participants and their families. For our program participants, My VAC Account provides the convenience and flexibility of doing business securely online with us on select programs and services, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Further development is underway and future deliverables include expanding access to online applications and forms, enhancing the disability benefits application tracking system and updating the look and feel of the My VAC Account website.
Veterans Affairs Canada uses social media in an official capacity via several different channels including Facebook, YouTube and Twitter, as a complement to our departmental website. Since its creation in October 2009, our remembrance-focused Facebook pages — one English and a separate page in French — have attracted more than 630,000 "Likes," a number that continues to grow. About 90 per cent of these "Likes" are attached to the English page, while the remaining 10 per cent are on the French page.
To give you a sense of the growth and success of this page, prior to Veterans' Week 2010, there were about 247,000 "Likes" of our Facebook page. After Veterans' Week, this number grew to 438,000 "Likes" — an increase of 75 per cent in just one week.
In October 2009, we introduced the Veterans Affairs Canada YouTube channels, which had more than 700 subscribers and 56,000 views in 2011. And our most recent foray into social media has been through Twitter, attracting 1,800 followers.
In October 2011, we launched a departmental mobile App and in the future, a mobile-friendly website will be launched. These initiatives are helping us reach and engage the smartphone user population in Canada.
Internally, as of one and a half years ago, Veterans Affairs Canada has been offering a knowledge-sharing and collaboration tool, called a wiki. It is housed on two platforms to support both official languages.
[English]
All of these tools complement, not replace, traditional means of communicating. They provide us with additional ways to engage and build a relationship directly with veterans, their families, other stakeholders and Canadians. In building our Facebook, YouTube and Twitter presence, as well as the mobile application, official languages was, of course, a major factor in moving forward. In the early days there was a lot of consultation with central agencies to determine the best way and how best to move forward with respect to official languages and the Official Languages Act.
Interestingly, the conversation, driven by the audience found on the French Facebook page, tends to lean more toward our current military activities. On the other hand, the English page leans more toward traditional themes, for example, remembering those individuals who were part of the First World War or the Second World War. The nature of social media allows us the flexibility necessary to ensure that conversations and information are driven by the users' language of choice. I should also note here that our social language media postings are planned and developed to ensure quality in both official languages, and timeliness in the production of information in both official languages.
An advertising campaign with media plans specific to each official language target particular marketing methods and use geo-targeting to ensure appropriate exposure based on various elements, including language. We are very proud of our innovative use of web 2.0, social media and our leadership role in this area. We strive to go beyond official languages obligations to foster a meaningful connection with both linguistic communities.
I would be pleased to answer your questions further to the presentations from my colleagues. Thank you very much for the opportunity.
[Translation]
Glen Nichols, Deputy Chief, Communications Department, Bank of Canada: Madam Chair, honourable senators, the Bank of Canada appreciates this opportunity to give you an overview of how we use the Internet and social media to explain to Canadians the role of the bank and its policy objectives.
In communications we have one main goal: to ensure that the bank's work is understood. Effective communication is a crucial part of a credible and successful monetary policy framework. The same holds for the role we play in promoting domestic and international financial stability. And of course it is integral to our mandate to provide Canadians with secure currency they can use with confidence.
When communicating we focus on four things: being understandable, being credible, being strategic and being bilingual. We have made a significant investment in resources to ensure that we have the capability to communicate with Canadians at the same time and to the same standards of quality in the official language of their choice.
[English]
Our principal communications highway is the Internet. It is not the only way we communicate with Canadians, but it anchors our efforts. What is our reach? In December 2010, we conducted a survey of public awareness of the bank's mandate and policies. Fully 11 per cent of all those surveyed indicated they had personally visited our website.
[Translation]
We operate three public websites: bankofcanada.ca that receives 900,000 unique visitors per month; oec.gc.ca which provides information on Canada Savings Bonds and attracts 55,000 unique visitors a month, and finally, currencymuseum.ca introduces Canadians to the National Currency Museum and the national currency collection. It attracts 7,000 unique visitors a month.
On all these websites, the content is available in both official languages. About 80 per cent of the traffic to bankofcanada.ca originates in Canada. About 44 per cent of that is from Ontario, 30 per cent from western Canada, 22 per cent from Quebec and just over 4 per cent from Atlantic Canada. Within Canada, 78 per cent are accessing the site in English and 22 per cent in French. The large majority of the site's users are from corporate, government and academic Internet addresses. Almost 78 per cent of our traffic goes to our daily foreign exchange rates, inflation calculator and other statistics and databases. Well back of that and in descending order are unclaimed bank balances, bank notes, careers, a general description of the bank, and research.
We recognize that, increasingly, a large part of our audience is not logging on to our website from a desktop computer. They are using the Internet to find our material on Google Finance, other websites, or even on their smartphones and tablets. Today's challenge is to provide content in ways that ensure it is easily accessed, read and redistributed via those multiple channels.
[English]
We expect the web to remain our primary distribution channel to Canadians. We are, however, keeping abreast of new communications, technologies and the opportunities they present to extend audience reach. It is not our intention to be a bleeding-edge leader here. Our aim is to be a smart, fast follower, keeping up with Canadians as their preferences and habits in accessing information evolve.
That brings us to the use of social media as a secondary distribution channel for the bank. We are integrating these media into our communications strategies, but we are doing so cautiously. In using them, we maintain our commitment to serve all Canadians at the same time and in the same quality in both official languages.
[Translation]
We have seen some impressive results. We use Twitter to draw users to our content. We tweet the headlines and links. Our objective is to send users to our website content. Currently we have 15,000 followers in English and 1,500 followers in French. We find that our press headlines are often "retweeted" as many as 40 times, and can trigger as many as 100 clicks.
We use YouTube to post official bank videos. That presented us with significant opportunities on our most important public initiative last year: the rollout of the new series of bank notes that are, for the first time, printed on polymer. To date we have had over one million viewers. We are also using Flickr to provide high resolution photo galleries. It has proven extremely effective in sharing images of the new polymer notes with a much larger public.
[English]
Given the bank's importance and profile in helping to promote Canada's economic well-being, we only see our audiences growing in need and expectation. Going forward, we will keep abreast of the government's guidelines to ensure that we are consistent with them. Our web developers and communicators will also be in constant contact with other central banks and international financial institutions to stay current with best practices and to improve our ability to communicate with key audiences. As always, we are committed to doing so in both official languages.
[Translation]
On behalf of the Bank of Canada, I thank you for this opportunity and welcome your questions.
Yan Michaud, Director, E-Communications, Communications Products and Services Division, Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada: Honourable senators, good evening. I would like to thank you for inviting me to appear before your committee. As you know, the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade takes official languages seriously. My brief presentation today will show you how we respect the Official Languages Act in its entirety in our daily practices with respect to the social media and Internet.
Canada's international platform supports Foreign Affairs and International Trade, and the international work of 31 federal departments and agencies, crown corporations and provincial governments. The department offers more than 300 points of service to Canadians, including 173 missions in 105 countries abroad and 18 regional offices in Canada.
[English]
DFAIT's audience, therefore, is quite diverse, from Canadian youth wanting to study abroad to travelling Canadians, from foreign governments to businesses in Canada and abroad. Wherever they are, Canadians can reach us in a number of ways: telephone, mail, fax, email, in person and, of course, through the use of social media.
Social media increases the number of available channels of communications, thereby respecting the Government of Canada's communication's policy commitment to provide for a multi-channel approach. With that objective in mind, DFAIT has developed an array of traditional and web 2.0 properties.
[Translation]
The department has a very large website presence, with more than 60,000 web pages across hundreds of sites, both large and small.
You may have already visited www.travel.gc.ca or www.international.gc.ca or even Tradecommissioner.gc.ca, sites that attract an average of 30 million visits annually. In terms of quality control of our English and French communications, we employ professional editors to review all our communications products, including print, online and social media postings. In providing equal and simultaneous information in both languages, our social media channels comply with Treasury Board Secretariat guidelines.
The department applies several Official Languages Act principles, such as active offer, in its online social media presence. On our Facebook and Twitter templates, which are operated on separate English and French accounts, visitors are offered a prominent link to the other language, in case they are not aware of the other page. On Facebook, this would be in the form of a prominent "français" link on our English page, and vice versa.
Our travel advice website, www.travel.gc.ca, which targets all Canadians, receives roughly 22 per cent of its traffic on the French side. Our main network of corporate and embassy sites has a lower proportion, since most foreign governments and visitors enter through the English side. Here are a few statistics that may be of interest to you.
[English]
DFAIT was one of the first departments to venture into the social media sphere. We launched a YouTube channel back in 2006 and to date have received more than 300,000 views. Our presence on Twitter began in 2010 and so far we have more than 6,000 followers, approximately 15 per cent on the French side.
Through Facebook and Twitter, we have answered immigration questions, warned clients of visa scams, provided consular assistance to Canadians at home and abroad, warned embassies of potential threats, and more. Our typical communications with clients via the corporate Twitter account ranged from the general, such as questions related to visa requirements, to the specific, such as details about individual consular cases.
Following detailed consultations with many layers of stakeholders and policy centres, DFAIT officially published its social media policy in February 2012. The policy covers specific requirements of being active on social media, such as official languages, security, values and ethics, information management, code of conduct for officers abroad, access to information, accessibility, and so on.
[Translation]
Specifically for official languages, our tool kit helps users implement their social media initiatives while respecting official language requirements, namely: publishing all departmental accounts in both official languages, providing French and English captions for all unilingual videos, researching popular hash tags in both official languages to maximize our reach, and replying in both official languages on Twitter and Facebook when the information is of value to a larger audience.
To conclude, DFAIT has been part of the social media scene for a while, but we are still learning. We consult our colleagues in other federal departments and our counterparts overseas to learn from each other and share best practices so that we can refine our approach and increase the quality of service we provide to Canadians through all our social media accounts.
Honourable senators, I would conclude by saying that we make every effort to ensure that Canadians' legal rights are respected.
Dan Dugas, Director General, Communications and Marketing, Transport Canada: Madam Chair, I am pleased to be here today to participate in this round table discussion on Canadian language rights and the government's use of the Internet, new media and social media. With me today is Catherine Betz, Director of web, Creative and Internal Communications at Transport Canada.
Transport Canada uses social media in an official capacity via four different channels: Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Flickr, the image-sharing website. We use social media because Canadians do. As you may be aware, there are almost 17 million Canadians currently on Facebook and many Canadians log onto Facebook on a daily basis to connect with family and friends. Social media is less formal than other forms of communication, and has allowed us to create a more human face for the department.
Indeed, some members of the public communicate more freely on the social media than they would using the telephone, mail or email.
We have developed terms of use for each social media platform that we use. These terms outline what the public should expect from the department in terms of hours of availability, the type of content that we share and how we comply with legislation such as the Official Languages Act, the Access to Information Act and Privacy Act.
[English]
Transport Canada takes the language rights of Canadians very seriously. Our use of social media respects the Official Languages Act, and we are committed to ensuring that information products are available in both French and English and are of equal quality.
All four of our social media channels are available in both French and English, and all the channels include a link to the same platform in the alternate official language. When new content is posted to any of our social media channels, it is published simultaneously in both official languages.
Although the Internet and social media were only a glimmer on the horizon in 1969 when the languages act was first created, its application to these methods of communicating is no less important today. Transport Canada is committed to respecting and reflecting these values into the future, regardless of what new technologies we adopt.
Thank you again, honourable senators, for inviting me to discuss this important and engaging issue. I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My first question is for Ms. McIntyre. Do you know if many veterans are using social media?
Ms. McIntyre: I do not have figures on the number of veterans who participate in our programs. Our Facebook page focuses on our commemoration activities. Our mandate covers commemoration activities and veterans' benefits. We know that 25 per cent of the people on Facebook are young people under the age of 35. We can therefore deduce that this group does not represent the veterans who, traditionally, are over 35 years of age. I do not have the figures for veterans.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My second question is for all four of you. I would like to obtain your comments on the issue. Do not worry, we are not here to trap you. Perhaps I should have started with this question. I really appreciated your presentations, which were clear and precise. We can see that you are enthusiastic and like what you are doing.
Some people feel that using social media in both official languages requires a great deal of time and resources. Others feel that, like the marketing sector which quickly embraced social media because of its low cost, federal institutions can use these media without having to allocate much time and money.
Is this statement fair, or do you see things differently? I would like to hear comments from each and every one of you.
Mr. Michaud: We have been providing products using various media, and in both official languages, for years. We have simply used the existing tools and resources of the department for the social media. Consequently, in our case, things are ongoing.
As a bilingual Canadian, I feel it is essential to provide all our products in both official languages. We are not lacking in resources to develop and provide, in keeping with our obligations, all of our products in both official languages, in a given medium.
Mr. Dugas: I quite agree. It is not the products that have changed, it is the media that has. Just as we saw when we went from the written word to radio, from radio to television, from television to Facebook. Other media will come in the future, but the product does not change. We are always prepared to post or publish our material, without problem, in both official languages.
Mr. Nichols: At the bank, the two social media networks that we use most frequently are YouTube and Twitter. As far as Twitter is concerned, resources pose no problem if you have a truly bilingual communications group in a bilingual institution. Posts are really prepared in both languages. As far as YouTube is concerned, we produce videos in both languages.
I cannot talk about Facebook because we do not use it. We are looking at what other central banks are doing on Facebook.
Ms. McIntyre: As I mentioned, the Internet is our primary communications channel. We feel it is important to focus our efforts on what is published on the Internet. The other channels such as Facebook and Twitter are complementary and redirect people to check out our new departmental website.
We feel it is important to plan communications properly to ensure that the information, be it in French or in English, is of good quality. The department has to communicate the same information formally. That is part of what we do. And whether the information is communicated in French or in English is no secondary matter; there is a need to translate the information in one of the two languages. But as far as we are concerned, it is essential that everything be properly planned because this is directed to our departmental website.
The network does not take more or less resources, because everyone works together to ensure good communication regardless of the channel used by our clients.
The Chair: I have a supplemental question to those raised by Senator Fortin-Duplessis. I have been listening to all that you have said and it seems that things are going well. In all honesty, it always surprises me when I see federal departments that have adopted the new way of communicating with Canadians. When you started using these social media, what was the biggest challenge or obstacle? Because in my opinion, you cannot go from one way of communicating to another without meeting any obstacles or challenges. Would each of you tell us what was the primary or biggest difficulty?
Mr. Michaud: I believe that for us in the Department of Foreign Affairs, it was the process, for example knowing how to have these new tweets approved, these new comments on Facebook, and knowing who would take care of the translation, and having to do that sort of thing.
Happily, in the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, the vast majority of employees are exempted for official languages; they are perfectly bilingual. That certainly speeds things up quite a bit. For us it was an issue of the planning stage, how to put something forward. But once that stage was over, it happened very quickly, as with other traditional communications products.
[English]
Mr. Nichols: I would agree with that. I think the hard part is getting started. The hard part is overcoming the concern of whether you are up to this, whether you have the resources, whether you have the time and whether you have the capabilities of doing it. What motivates us all is that we recognize that if that is the way the people of this country are going to communicate, then we had better be there and that is all there is to it. It is up to us to figure out how we can fit our process problems into staying in touch with Canadians.
[Translation]
Ms. McIntyre: I must admit that since we are the headquarters in a unilingual region, we faced many challenges, whether it was through social media or other processes. We learned lessons through other launching processes in order to ensure there was good quality in official languages.
I must say that one of the challenges we had from the outset was that we had to examine the risks. Many people, who sat on the upper management committee, were afraid and did not want to take any chances. There was a fear of negative comments on the part of the users.
The management committee had to be convinced to take the risks and learn how to control them through the guidelines.
Mr. Dugas: I agree that change frightens people. The other small challenge, I believe, is that Twitter, with its limit of 140 characters, makes things somewhat more difficult in French than in English. We manage, but it is not always easy.
Senator Nolin: I have an initial question for Ms. McIntyre because her answer to my colleague surprised me somewhat.
You use social media to promote your responsibilities for remembrance activities. That is what I understood. And that is why you believe that young Canadians are not interested or that they use social media less frequently to communicate with you. Did I understand correctly?
Ms. McIntyre: We first got into social media for our remembrance activities. We had to be proactive and reach out to people. Twenty-five per cent of users are young people. It is not the majority, but if we want to reach young people, we have to be very creative and that is what we try to do.
For example, last year we had an iPhone application and 4,000 people downloaded it. That happened during Veterans' Week. Young people are the ones who will download that onto the iPhone.
Senator Nolin: What I find intriguing in your answer is that yes, you have clients. I am sorry to use that expression, but we studied the term "client" during our committee's visit to your department on Prince Edward Island and everyone understands. You have clients of all ages, including those who fought in the Second World War, but you also have clients who are coming back from the conflict in Afghanistan, and they are young Canadians.
I understand that you are using social media more specifically on the commemorative side. But as a granting organization, I presume that your clientele will use any means at its disposal to reach you, to ensure they understand your service delivery. And in the end, I understand that using Facebook and Twitter to try and specifically understand the problem that I as a veteran might have with you is perhaps not the best means. I would just as soon have direct communication with you. But your answer surprised me. Do you have any comment?
Ms. McIntyre: Thank you very much, senator. I am pleased to hear that your committee travelled to Prince Edward Island.
Senator Nolin: Prince Edward Island is not so unilingual.
Ms. McIntyre: No, indeed, as I am from Prince Edward Island myself, I agree. I would like to clarify that we got into social media beginning with the remembrance. It really was a practical test. We are currently reviewing different ways to use social media in order to reach our clients.
Therefore we will soon be launching a Facebook page; it is intended to provide information on our service delivery. Also, on our website, we have My VAC Account; it is an online service that people can connect to in order to obtain basic services. We launched this, and saw that it was very successful, so we are carrying on; things are taking shape and we are making progress.
Senator Nolin: I have a question for the other three witnesses. You all testified that this works, that things are falling into place and that everyone is very excited. Given that we are a regulatory and legislative body, I would like to know if the current standards, both legislative, regulatory, or in terms of policy, are sufficient; if not, are there areas in which we should improve the rules, that is the legislation, or recommend some policy changes? We are well aware of the Treasury Board guidelines, but we would like to know if there is a way of improving that.
Mr. Michaud: Senator Nolin, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?"
Senator Nolin: We often hear that one. But then six months later, we find that some little detail escaped us. That is why we ask the question.
Mr. Michaud: Indeed. As my colleague was saying, the legislation was drafted in 1969 and implemented in the 1970s, well before the existence of social media. However, I believe we are adapting our use of social media to the spirit of the law, and there are no pitfalls for the moment; what we need to do to comply with the requirements of the legislation is quite clear to us. Therefore, there is no problem for the moment.
Senator Nolin: In that case, I will clarify my question. When a citizen — let us presume the person is Canadian — contacts you, who is on the other end of the line to answer? A bilingual person? Are there two people? As far as the availability of information is concerned and access in both official languages, does it take a longer time if the person writes in French and the person answering is an anglophone, depending on the time of day? Do you see where I am headed?
Mr. Michaud: Absolutely.
Senator Nolin: Are the guidelines covering that sufficiently binding to ensure that there is an equivalent level of service for all Canadians?
Mr. Michaud: Absolutely. I have the pleasure, at the Department of Foreign Affairs, of managing the people responsible for the telephone lines, for email, the people who are responsible for sending or receiving tweets or answering on Facebook; all of these media report to me. And I can tell you that we have unilingual anglophones who, when they see an email come in that is written in French, will forward it directly to someone who is able to respond immediately. That does not take any extra time.
I also have people who answer the telephone — we receive more than 60,000 calls from Canadians every year to our 1- 800 number — and they are all bilingual. In all of my services people are bilingual. No service is given preferential treatment compared to another. There is no lesser level of service offered in one compared to another. We are all bilingual, or if someone is unilingual they can immediately transfer the request to someone who is able to respond very quickly in the language of choice of the person who sent the email or request for information.
Mr. Dugas: I have not seen any problems in our department. I would say the same thing; if there is a delay, it is a very short one for translation.
Senator Nolin: A delay for translation? Please explain what you mean.
Mr. Dugas: If an anglophone receives something in French that they are unable to respond to, we send it to someone for translation. We do that in-house and we can answer right away.
Senator Nolin: So the answer is written in English.
Mr. Dugas: Yes.
Mr. Michaud: In connection with what my colleague has just mentioned, if we receive a tweet or a question on a bulletin board in French, but we see that the question could interest francophones as well as anglophones, we must translate it. When it is a matter of public interest, we must publish it in both languages. It will take a few moments or a few hours to translate that into the other official language, but it is quickly done.
Ms. McIntyre: I would like to add two things. First, I think that the Treasury Board Secretariat guidelines, published in November, are quite well done. They are not absolutely strict, because we are not talking about a science, things are not always black and white. This is something that is new to us, and it would be risky to be too rigid because it can also change; therefore we have to have some flexibility. The Treasury Board guidelines give practical examples to follow. We will get there, but they just came out, last November.
Second, as Veterans Affairs Canada, when I mentioned that we go beyond our obligations, in regions that are not designated as bilingual we offer the service in both languages. With the type of clientele that we have, someone who is a francophone could decide to go and live in British Columbia. Even if the region is not designated bilingual, we will still offer the service in both official languages.
Mr. Nichols: At the Bank of Canada, we take the legislation and the ability of the organization to respond to Canadians in the language of their choice very seriously.
We have identified some positions are resources that serve the public, across Canada. If I look at Calgary, 4 out of 7 people are bilingual; in Halifax it is 4 out of 6; in Montreal, 28 out of 36; here in Ottawa, 130 out of 173; in Toronto, 15 out of 47; and in Vancouver, 5 out of 8. We have bilingual capacity across the country and I believe we have never — or very rarely — had a complaint.
Senator Nolin: This is written correspondence we are talking about, not just telephone calls. And we are all aware that between speaking and writing, a person can have certain reservations when they have to express themselves in the official language that is not their mother tongue.
That is why I wanted to know what measures you had in place. I thank you for your answers.
Senator Poirier: Thank you for your presentations. I will ask my questions in English, if that is all right.
[English]
Do you feel that all Canadians are able to use the Internet, new media, and social media in the official language of their choice, regardless of their condition or where they live? For example, do you feel that someone who is blind, deaf or hearing impaired, or who lives in a remote area, is able to get the service, technologies and equipment used by federal government, the media and educators to meet their linguistic needs, anglophone or francophone?
Mr. Michaud: That question has two parts. The first part is about accessibility to Canadians, wherever they live in the country, and the second part to your question is about the accessibility of the media itself. I will start with element number 2. Jodhan v. Canada is a recent court judgment. That brought up the web Content Accessibility Guidelines — also known as WCAG — where all departments must offer information electronically in an accessible fashion. Therefore, people's screen readers can read the information if the people are blind or visually impaired. Most or all departments are working to render all of their web content accessible, and that goes for social media as well. Therefore, social media will need to be WCAG compliant.
On the first part of your question concerning accessibility to all, if the Internet exists in the communities where they are, people will have access. I would love to have the Internet accessible to all Canadians everywhere, but we do have mobile devices that we offer our content on, and we are completely compliant for all different types of mobile devices. It is whether or not the Internet is available for Canadians wherever they live, but that is another issue for Industry Canada, not for us. On for the second part of your question, with WCAG, we offer all of our content accessible.
Ms. McIntyre: In terms of accessibility, we are all working towards what the requirements are. Certainly, our Internet at Veterans Affairs already provides the ability for those who are visually or hearing impaired different options.
I want to go back to one of my key statements in terms of access and being able to reach through the Internet. This use of social media, web 2.0, does not replace any other method of communication. We still certainly offer, and will always continue to offer, given the nature of the individuals that we reach, an ability to speak to an individual, whether by phone or in person, depending on the situation. It is important that the use of social media complements other methods of communication. It will never replace the ability for our program participants to be able to liaise with the department how they choose to do so in their official language.
Mr. Nichols: I agree with that. In terms of our policies when it comes to web contact accessibility guidelines, we are priority too. For example, all of our educational videos are closed captioned or have descriptive video versions. That is what is out there. I agree completely on the other one, which is why I included in my remarks that the web is a major highway for us; it is the central plank of our way of communicating with Canadians. It is not the only way we do it, and we have to remember that there are other means and use them where appropriate. It is not to get totally fixated on this as the only channel to Canadians.
Mr. Dugas: On accessibility I would echo Mr. Michaud's comments that Industry Canada has overall responsibility for Internet access. That being said, on mobile apps, as a way of Canadians everywhere accessing the web, Transport Canada has not yet developed a mobile app but it will because it goes back to wanting to reach Canadians where they are. We will go to where they are to reach them. It is a natural evolution of social media.
Senator Poirier: I am curious about what your life was like before the birth of YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and everything else along that line and how you communicated and what the percentage was of people that you were able to communicate with or were communicating with you compared to today. Would anyone like to comment on that?
Mr. Nichols: I mentioned our experience on YouTube with the rollout of the new currency when we were doing our communications planning and saying this was the obvious thing you would do — this makes absolute sense to do this. We were absolutely astounded by the results, when we started getting over 1 million people viewing what we had produced. That is just at a level that we could not possibly have reproduced in the old days with the old traditional media. I do not know what it would have taken to get those sorts of numbers, so the difference to me is the incredible opportunities these present to connect with a really diverse audience. We go at it cautiously, but it is an incredible opportunity for communicators and an exciting time, as a result.
Mr. Michaud: It is a multiplying factor for us. The Internet has been in existence for years, but social media has provided us with extra opportunities to communicate our message. Since we launched our Twitter account, we have had more than 3,000 tweets, but they have been re-tweeted and seen over 5 million times. That is a reach that we would not have had before.
[Translation]
People are more and more connected. Even my parents are online and have a Facebook page. So if my parents have a Facebook page, let me tell you that people are more and more plugged in, even more than we may think, across the country. It is a way to get in touch.
[English]
Ms. McIntyre: I can certainly connect with that. Not only has it broadened our reach by using the various social media mechanisms, but also it has engaged Canadians to participate in commemorative activities. You might have seen our tag line, "How Will You Remember?" or "Comment te souviendras-tu?" It was one of our big campaigns and continues to be for Veterans' Week, for which I am proud to say we were provided with Public Service Award of Excellence in 2009. To get that kind of reach, I do not think our lives for any of us, whether personally or professionally, will ever be the same as they were prior to the advent of social media. It is very positive, particularly in the way that we at Veterans Affairs want the commemoration to continue and want to be able to reach our program participants in as many ways as possible.
Senator Poirier: When you started using the social media that you are using successfully now, were you able to have access to it in both official languages right from the beginning or was that a challenge at the beginning to be able to offer both on those sites.
Mr. Dugas: We met it right away. It was one of the things that we had to have in place before we could launch, and we did all that. To answer your first question that you asked my colleagues, I can tell you that in my former life as a journalist, I started my career with once-a-day deadline. It evolved into a 24-hour news universe, where there was an hourly deadline. Now, there are no deadlines. I was at a management meeting of executives at Transport Canada when a tweet came in about an airplane making a hard landing. It was nothing serious but it was on Twitter. I said to the deputy minister, "This happened seven minutes ago, and people want answers now." That is how things have changed. That is what social media allows us to do, but it increases the Canadian public's expectations for answers. They want answers now, and that is what we are trying to meet, in part with social media.
[Translation]
Mr. Michaud: I would like to add some further information, senator.
[English]
There are different social media platforms. Right now we use Flickr, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter. There are hundreds of others, but not all offer a platform in both official languages. These are private companies that offer this, so it takes some convincing and some work sometimes to get these private companies to have a French application or another language application. There are many available, but not all are bilingual.
Senator Poirier: I am still amazed.
[Translation]
Given that everything is translated into both official languages, why have the terms Facebook, Twitter and YouTube not yet been translated?
The Chair: I have a complementary question to those asked by Senator Poirier.
We have methods of communication, let us call them traditional, and now we have new means of communication that are the new media, et cetera.
In your opinion, how many Canadians do you currently reach using your traditional methods of communication and the new social media?
If there has been an increase, could you tell us what percentage of Canadians you reach? Is it much more than in the past?
Mr. Michaud: We do not have enough assessments to measure that, at least in my department; and given the fact that we can no longer do surveys, I cannot provide you with that information.
Mr. Dugas: I could tell you how many have subscribed, but I do not know if that is an increase or a decrease.
The Chair: So that cannot show if there was an increase, nor the size of that increase if there was one?
Mr. Dugas: No.
Mr. Nichols: In 2010, we did a survey in order to find out what the comprehension rate was among Canadians. It was the first time in 10 years that we had done such a survey. We found an increase of approximately two-thirds in terms of comprehension or knowledge about the bank.
The Chair: What percentage of Canadians did you get in touch with?
Mr. Nichols: I cannot give you the exact figures.
The Chair: Could you send them to us?
Mr. Nichols: I believe the rate was 40 per cent of Canadians who had some general knowledge or understanding of the bank, of the bank's mandate and what it does.
Ms. McIntyre: I will check with the department to see if we have those figures. I will however give you one figure, and others can flesh out my answer.
Within the context of the advertising campaigns that we put together every year for Veterans' Week, we carried out a survey of Canadians to find out if they recognized veterans and if they saw our advertising and campaigns. In 2010, 64 per cent of Canadians said they had seen our advertising, compared to 57 per cent for the year before. In the space of a year, we therefore saw an interesting increase, and that data reflects the time when we started to use the different types of social media.
Senator Nolin: I know that the Department of Veterans Affairs has an iPad application. Do you have one?
Mr. Michaud: We are in the process of setting one up for our consular needs.
Senator Nolin: It would be very useful.
Mr. Michaud: Absolutely. We are in the process of developing something.
Senator Nolin: For the bank, the task is no doubt much less about service, and rather about advertising and visibility.
Mr. Nichols: I will have to check.
Senator Nolin: I presume that this is not a problem for Transport Canada.
Mr. Dugas: Things are under development.
Senator Nolin: Now there is the answer of a true journalist.
Mr. Dugas: We are not quite there, but almost.
Senator Mockler: Information is power. Why does the bank not use Facebook?
I have just returned from visiting a big city in Quebec, and I am told that this bank often uses Facebook.
[English]
Mr. Nichols: When we are looking at utilizing media, most Canadians want statistics, databases, information and research from us. They are not looking for a dialogue at the moment. Facebook is a medium that is very much suited to some of what my colleagues are doing, which is really getting into an ongoing dialogue on the changes on specific things. As I say, we are cautious. It is not that we are saying we will not do it. We are saying it is not at a point now that it makes the most sense to use as a medium. There are other central banks that are doing it and we are working with them and taking a look at how they are using the material, but for the moment we have not said no. We just have not seen something where this makes sense for us to embark on.
[Translation]
Senator Mockler: We are talking about social media, and you briefly touched on the subject of people who have special needs with Senator Poirier. You certainly must study this issue.
You have raised some very good points here. However, do you have any recommendations as to how the Standing Committee on Official Languages could help you bring about improvements in the services that you would like to offer to Canadians?
Mr. Dugas: We began to use social media last year. This is still a new experience for Transport Canada and we are evolving. I still do not see any problem. I will repeat what my colleague said:
[English]
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
[Translation]
The Chair: Did you follow the Treasury Board Secretariat policy as a guide?
Mr. Dugas: Yes, absolutely.
Mr. Michaud: For us, it is perhaps too early to pass judgment. I never thought that I would say this, but we need more time, perhaps a few years before we could say whether or not it works, and if changes are needed. I think it is a little too early to submit any firm recommendations to you.
Mr. Nichols: That is also the case for us. We only started using social media in 2008. It is a very promising experience. There are many opportunities, but we do not yet have a wish list.
Ms. McIntyre: I agree entirely with my colleagues. However, could we not work together on advertising? I find that we are taking a lot of time to launch our programs for Canadians. We could be talking about the same people who are interested in knowing more about our domains. We should work together on a common cause.
In our case, the figures are 90 per cent for anglophones and 10 per cent for francophones. I note the reaction among the senators when I mention that figure. We want to increase our profile among francophones. What could we do together in that regard? I am inviting your cooperation, and perhaps we could study this issue together. I do not work in the field of communications, but I know that there are interdepartmental working groups that are set up. Once again, we are just getting started, and we will have to see where it takes us.
Senator Tardif: I quickly read through the briefs that you submitted. My question is for Mr. Michaud; however I invite all of the participants to answer.
Mr. Michaud, in your written presentation you indicate that you support "the international work of 31 federal departments and agencies, crown corporations and provincial governments. DFAIT offers more than 300 points of service to Canadians, including 173 missions in 105 countries abroad and 18 regional offices in Canada." Moreover, you have 60,000 web pages. That is huge!
First of all, how do you ensure the quality, then the monitoring and the good governance of all of these sites so that they comply with the spirit of the Official Languages Act?
Mr. Michaud: It is an art.
Senator Tardif: There are also outcomes —
Mr. Michaud: Absolutely. For years now all products have had to be bilingual. With the arrival of the Internet, we had to put pages up on the web in both official languages. Every time a new page is created, it is in both languages. It is merely a follow-up, a normal process of evolution that all of the content be in both languages. In all countries where we have missions and embassies, we make efforts to have services in both languages for all Canadians. For the web pages of the missions in various countries, we ensure that the information is there in both official languages, as well as in a third language, that is the language of the country, to serve Canada's economic interests and international trade.
Senator Tardif: Is the oversight done from Ottawa? Is it centralized in Ottawa?
[English]
What is the oversight? What is the evaluation mechanism?
Mr. Michaud: I would say hub and spoke, if I may.
[Translation]
My team is responsible for part of the web content, for monitoring and for quality in terms of official languages. We have other divisions that focus solely on foreign and mission websites. This group has guidelines like ours. It ensures that content posted online by different missions is in both official languages. It is essential that everyone follow these guidelines.
Senator Tardif: Is it verified every year? Is there a report? Is it done every month? How does that work?
Mr. Michaud: As soon as we receive an email from someone or a content analysis shows us that there is something that is not similar in both official languages, we strive to correct it right away. For missions, content is verified regularly to ensure that everything complies with all Government of Canada policies.
Senator Tardif: You answered a question by saying that you sometimes have to convince private companies to provide Apps. So in what circumstances would you need private companies? Because it is always a concern. The federal government strives to comply with the Official Languages Act, but as soon as there is subcontracting or a private company offers services, often the Official Languages Act is not respected. Could you elaborate on that point?
Mr. Michaud: Absolutely. Take Twitter. At the very beginning of Twitter, the application was only offered in English. It is with use, where there is money to be made, that more and more francophones, from France, from African countries, from francophone countries, started to use the application and ask that it be offered in French. An application was then developed in French because money talks. It is the same for Facebook and YouTube. There are a number of other platforms that are currently only available in English, but demand from the world's francophone market will cause these companies to develop their platform in another language, whether it be French, English or another world language.
Senator Tardif: Can you require it in your transactions?
Mr. Michaud: Absolutely not. But at the Department of Foreign Affairs, we strive to use bilingual platforms and if there is translation to be done for the platform, which is not in French, we will provide the information in French. As a francophone, I would be very insulted to go to a website that is only offered in English. So we strive to provide and use platforms that are in both official languages.
Senator Tardif: Are there incentives you offer to companies to develop Apps in French? Is there funding available to encourage people to develop Apps in French? I do not know if the question is relevant for you, but I would imagine that it is a question of content production. If more incentives are not provided for development, that could be problematic.
The Chair: To your knowledge, are there programs or places where these companies can get financial aid to develop content in French if it does not exist?
Mr. Michaud: I do not have that information, unfortunately. But I can tell you that the Department of Foreign Affairs does not pay third parties to develop its content in French. We unfortunately — or fortunately — do not have the budgets for that. That may be the responsibility of another department.
The Chair: Are you seeing that those businesses are being encouraged to do so? Are you seeing progress?
Mr. Michaud: There are more and more platforms. Currently, Flickr, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, more companies are available in French because there is money to be made. It is simply the volume of people they would have.
Senator Mockler: You say it is a question of money — and I do not want to argue about that — but I would like to hear what the four of you think. If a company receives funding for economic development, without being specific, given your experience, do you not think they should be encouraged to have a bilingual platform?
Mr. Michaud: As a bilingual Canadian and as a public servant who offers services in both languages, it would be appreciated. However, I do not know of any federal programs at this time that have that mandate.
Senator Mockler: With the experience all four of you have — you are professionals — would it not be an opportunity, perhaps, to invite people who deal with governments — at the federal, provincial and municipal levels — because they also have a pretty good presence in the area of social media? Could we not encourage them?
Mr. Dugas: The simple answer is that we are not responsible for private development. We are responsible for developing our own applications. As I told Senator Nolin, we are developing an application at Transport Canada in both official languages, but I have no control over what goes on in the private sector.
The Chair: Could having more information and communication in both of Canada's official languages in the private sector contribute to the economy?
Mr. Dugas: In general, I would say that anything that helps reach people helps the economy.
The Chair: Very well. Now, for the second round, we only have a few minutes.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I have a question for Ms. McIntyre. I think you have a real challenge: transferring Ste. Anne's Hospital. I am going to ask a question that is not about new media. Several months ago, we conducted a study on health care in different communities, either francophone minority communities or anglophone minority communities. Do hospitalized veterans receive care in their language?
Ms. McIntyre: I will answer yes without hesitation, and it is true even for long-term care in our hospitals that have already been transferred to the provinces. There are 17 that have already been transferred to the provinces over the years, and there is an obligation to serve our veterans in the language of their choice.
Currently, at Ste. Anne's Hospital, it is certainly the case. It is interesting to note that half are anglophones and the other half are francophones. The delivery of services and programs in both official languages is certainly a guarantee and an obligation that will be respected after the transfer.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I apologize for having asked that question, which is not related to our work today, but at the time we did not think to invite a veterans' representative to provide their point of view. At the time, we found out all sorts of things, you know, but I will not go on about that. I appreciate your frankness and the fact that you answered my question. Thank you so much.
Senator Mockler: Do you consult the users of your platforms to find out how to improve your service?
Mr. Michaud: At the moment we do not because that would be public opinion research and we cannot do public opinion research currently.
Senator Mockler: Who is telling you you cannot do it?
Mr. Michaud: Currently, we cannot do public opinion research, so we cannot consult people on that.
The Chair: Do you have a very short answer? You do not do any?
Mr. Dugas: No, we do not do any.
The Chair: Mr. Nichols?
Mr. Nichols: No.
The Chair: Ms. McIntyre?
Ms. McIntyre: I do not know how it was done, but I can tell you that I just saw a poll that was done to find out who participated in our promotion of Veterans' Week 2011. We used a combination of means of communication, whether written or social media, and 99 per cent indicated that they would use the products again. They liked what they received. I do not know all the details.
The Chair: Could you provide that information to us?
Ms. McIntyre: Certainly, I will check, Madam Chair.
The Chair: Time is passing and you have seen how many questions you raised. Without a doubt, it was very interesting and I thank you for having taken the time to appear before our committee. I hope you continue to respect the Official Languages Act as well as the Treasury Board Secretariat policy.
We will continue now with our second panel. We have with us today representatives from National Defence, Natural Resources Canada, Statistics Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency.
Discussion with this panel should conclude around 7 p.m. I now invite the witnesses to make their presentations and the senators will ask questions after.
Marc Raider, Acting Director General, Marketing, National Defence: Madam Chair, thank you for your invitation.
At the Department of National Defence, the Public Affairs Sector, also known as ADMPA, where I work, is responsible for the implementation of the Communications Policy of the Government of Canada. This policy requires that communication with Canadians respect the Official Languages Act.
The Public Affairs Sector provides functional direction on all communications matters to the Department of National Defence, both internally and externally. We also deliver a number of services directly, including the development and maintenance of our two main websites: forces.gc.ca, which is the broader corporate website, and forces.ca, which focuses solely on recruitment for the Canadian Forces.
[English]
In my specific role as acting director general for advertising and marketing, I am responsible for providing functional direction and advice in the areas of: advertising, marketing, corporate identity, fairs and exhibits, video and multimedia productions, technological innovation and new media, and electronic communication and the Internet, including development and maintenance of the two websites I just described.
[Translation]
If I may, I would like to provide you with an overview of both internal and external web platforms at DND and how we manage official languages requirements in that regard.
The development and management of web content for other DND websites is done by each individual sector or organization; for example, Human Resources, the Canadian Army, the Royal Canadian Navy and Royal Canadian Air Force all develop and manage their own web content.
They also ensure respect for official languages requirements in how their organizations communicate internally and externally.
This also applies to social media.
[English]
The public affairs sector has provided direction on the use of social media platforms by issuing National Defence Canadian Forces guidelines for the external use of social media. The guidelines, which were released this past January, are available in both official languages. The guidelines support the communications policy of the Government of Canada and are aligned to the Treasury Board Secretariat guidelines for external use of web 2.0.
[Translation]
Pursuant to Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces guidelines on social media, organizations are required to complete a request form for new accounts, and they are also required to provide an annual social media plan. Both are subject to review by the Public Affairs Sector in order to ensure, among other requirements, that they support content in both official languages.
An example of an external application that would be covered under the Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces Guidelines for the External Use of Social Media is the iPhone and iPad Newsreader Mobile Application that has been developed by the Public Affairs Sector.
For this application, we have a licence for Apple iPhone and iPad. The Newsreader Mobile App links to Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces news items, whereby users can switch from either official language at any point.
In addition to issuing "DND/CF Guidelines for the External Use of Social Media," the Public Affairs Sector also launched, last Thursday on International Women's Day, English and French corporate Twitter accounts. The two Twitter accounts will provide information on Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces news and other items of interest to Canadians, equally in both official languages.
As well, the terms of reference, conditions of use, departmental positions and disclaimers are available in both official languages.
[English]
There are also a number of innovative internal communications tools that have been developed by the public affairs sector at DND that maximize collaboration by using technologies smartly. The public affairs sector has developed an in- house Wiki known as the "public affairs filing cabinet," which is available as an internal working tool that enables public affairs advisers to share information and resources on specific topics. One of the main features the public affairs filing cabinet is the executive summaries for the weekly public affairs themes. These are available in both official languages. A Flickr-like imagery web application was developed as well to house, catalogue and share high quality imagery within the National Defence Canadian Forces public affairs community. This one is known as "force image" and features separate French and English interfaces.
[Translation]
In conclusion, I am pleased to say that my directorate supports official languages as described in these remarks. Thank you very much for this opportunity. I would be pleased to answer any questions.
Joanne Frappier, Acting Director General, Planning, Operations and Information Branch, National Capital Region, Canadian Forest Service, Natural Resources Canada: Honourable senators, thank you for the opportunity to present Natural Resources Canada's experience with the Internet and social media. My name is Joanne Frappier, and I am a co-champion of official languages.
[English]
Natural Resources Canada is an economic- and science-based department that seeks to enhance the responsible development and use of Canada's natural resources and the competitiveness of Canada's natural resources products.
[Translation]
Our daily interactions are largely with the scientific community, industry and other levels of government. Our programs, however, also give us direct contact with Canadians, programs like the ecoEnergy Retrofit Home Program or activities such as our National Science and Technology Week.
In 2006, the department examined the most important trends shaping its work and set parameters for developing policy on natural resources. This work quickly indicated that to find solutions, NRCan needed to share its experts' knowledge across the department in new and innovative ways.
And so, following this work, a suite of tools was developed starting with NRCan's Resource Wiki in 2007. Today, the wiki holds more than 10,000 individual pages, of which in 2010, 15 per cent were in French only and 30 per cent were bilingual. The wiki complements our traditional intranet, which is fully bilingual for all our employees.
[English]
We recently noticed that the Wiki is used more and more as a communication tool and, as a result, French content has increased. Since the inception of the Wiki, NRCan has set up internal blogs, discussion forums, virtual collaboration spaces and its own internal Facebook-like application called "NRCan's expertise network."
In all cases, NRCan tools are available in both official languages. As noted in our NRCan official language Wiki guidelines, which you will find in the annex, the rules are clear: When using the Wiki for consulting staff or communicating official messages, the contents must be bilingual. Since the Wiki is intended to enable knowledge exchange, we accept to have some of our content available in only one language, that of the person that has created the page.
[Translation]
The use of these tools has created a culture of transparency, inclusiveness and collaboration in the department. With the Official Languages Action Plan developed in 2010, which informed staff of their rights and obligations, the culture and awareness initiatives have led to success in introducing these tools.
For example, recently one of our assistant deputy ministers wanted to have a conversation with the scientists in his organization. He posted a short text in our discussion forum, in both official languages, and asked employees to comment on his ideas. He then followed up with a videoconference that was managed as a bilingual meeting, and the success in terms of participation across the country was very impressive.
[English]
While becoming agile with collaborative technologies, NRCan wanted with modern tools to attract new talent into the organization and provide useful timely information for Canadians. This is where the formal use of social media appeared in NRCan. A pilot involving the use of Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and LinkedIn was initiated to determine the usefulness and outreach capabilities of various popular social media tools.
[Translation]
Since January 2010, recruitment is now also advertised, in both official languages, on Facebook and Twitter. Our Earthquakes Canada Twitter feed is another mechanism for seismic alerts and, more recently, NRCan can also be seen on a corporate YouTube channel. All videos are bilingual, and accessible versions with closed captioning and text versions of scripts are available on NRCan websites.
NRCan has not restricted or blocked the use of social media platforms. However, guidance to clearly define expected employee behaviour is provided by NRCan's Centre of Expertise for Social Media Communications. Again, NRCan's position is that the use of social media is to be conducted according to established policies and acts.
[English]
"Going beyond obligations" is the theme of our official language action plan, which you have received a copy of. It is being implemented across NRCan with support from the two department's official language champions. Internally and externally the official language and social media centres of excellence ensure diligent adherence to our OL values and obligations as evidenced with our targeted recruitment effort using social media.
[Translation]
To conclude, we have learned that we need to continue to learn from and share our lessons learned with other government departments. Awareness of official languages rights and obligations leads to increased openness and tolerance of differences.
Finally, unanticipated creative collaborations emerge and lead to an increased sense of belonging within our organizations. I would be pleased to answer your questions.
Gabrielle Beaudoin, Director General, Communications Division, Statistics Canada: Madam Chair, I would like to thank the committee members for inviting Statistics Canada to participate in this round table.
In this short presentation, I will describe the tools used by Statistics Canada to communicate online with the public, the measures we take to ensure the dissemination of information in both official languages and, finally, the success factors of our web presence.
Statistics Canada was one of the precursors in using the Internet to communicate with the public. Our agency established a bilingual web presence as early as 1996. The website is our main dissemination channel and, with over eight million pages, it is one of the largest among all Government of Canada websites in terms of volume.
The website provides current and reliable statistics on the Canadian economy and society. We use various tools to publish information, including mini-applications, also known as widgets. We also offer an interface for mobile devices.
Over the last few years, Statistics Canada has entered the realm of social media to increase information sharing and interaction with its data users. Five communication channels have been opened: a Consultation Forum, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and an online chat.
Our first attempt at a collaboration tool was modest, yet successful. In 2007, we created an online Census Consultation Forum to share information with users and to gather their comments online.
In 2010, we launched our Twitter accounts. There, we publish information every day about the latest Daily releases as well as information about our surveys. With over 26,000 followers, the Statistics Canada Twitter account is the most popular among all departmental accounts to this day.
Building on its experience with Twitter, Statistics Canada launched two Facebook pages and two YouTube channels in January 2012. Statistics on various features of our country as well as information about our products and services are posted. We have over 200 Facebook fans and our YouTube videos have been seen by almost 1,100 users.
For the initial 2011 Census data release, we launched a video featuring one of our demography experts who provides an overall picture of the population. A bilingual chat session also took place allowing about 50 registered participants to chat with the demography expert in real time.
The experience was a success and we plan on using chat sessions and videos for future census releases.
[English]
Internally, Statistics Canada employees use GCPEDIA and we also have a bilingual Wiki that has been in place for a few years. In Statistics Canada's sites and media accounts, content is published simultaneously in both official languages with the same quality. On our Twitter and Facebook pages and in the consultation forum, users are invited to join the conversation in the language of their choice and we provide answers in the originating language.
Our chat room features a complete transcription of the session, published in both official languages, shortly after the session. Our videos are taped in both official languages and posted with transcriptions. All of our tools comply with the Official Languages Act and with the guideline for external use of web 2.0.
The success of Statistics Canada's undertakings on the social media front is based on three elements: planning, risk management and vigilance. For each new tool we have established rules of engagement and a governance structure and have put together bilingual, well-trained teams for their implementation.
[Translation]
We constantly monitor our sites for any non-compliant usage and to respond to Canadians' comments in a timely fashion.
Lastly, we developed the Guidelines on the Use of Social Media at Statistics Canada, which define the roles and responsibilities and implement a formal process for employees to submit content for posting on our official accounts.
In summary, Statistics Canada has adopted complementary social media platforms to interact with a variety of audiences and to maximize the use of Canada's official statistics. The discussion forum reaches an educated audience, Twitter is popular with news buffs, Facebook allows for more animated conversations, chat sessions provide a place for discussion on particular topics, and YouTube shows statistics in action and reaches younger audiences.
While the website remains the principal dissemination channel, social media offers a new dimension to communications by fostering real-time exchanges in locations visited by our audiences on a daily basis. All of these activities are conducted in accordance with the language rights of Canadians. Thank you, and we will be pleased to answer your questions.
[English]
Louise Dorval, Director General, Ministerial Services and Operations Directorate, Public Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency: Good evening Madam Chair and honourable senators. My name is Louise Dorval. I am Director General of Ministerial Services and Operations in the Public Affairs Branch of the Canada Revenue Agency. Part of my mandate is to oversee social media.
[Translation]
I am pleased to be here today to discuss official languages as they relate to the CRA's use of the Internet, new media and social media to communicate with Canadians.
[English]
Supporting me here today are Sonia Buchanan, Director of Official Languages, and Steve Enright, Director of Electronic and Print Media. The CRA ministers a tax and benefits system based on the principles of voluntary compliance. Individuals and businesses are encouraged to self-assess and pay their taxes responsibly.
[Translation]
To deliver on our mandate, it is essential that Canadians fully understand their entitlements and obligations. So we must communicate with them effectively. That includes respecting the constitutional right of Canadians to be served in the official language of their choice.
While that once meant publishing dual-language print products and offering bilingual counter and call-centre service, now a myriad of communications tools are available to help us reach a wider audience.
That is why we are committed to maintaining an effective web presence and to using innovative online tools — such as Twitter and YouTube — in addition to the traditional means of reaching the public — through news releases, call centres and letter mail, for example.
[English]
No matter what the tool or product, however, the CRA meets all of its policy and program obligations, including those outlined in the Official Languages Act and the Government of Canada communications policy. We have tools and processes in place to ensure that our internal and external communication products and other materials are of the highest quality, and are issued simultaneously in both official languages regardless of how they are disseminated.
The CRA's website is our primary communications vehicle, hosting 140,000 web pages, 3,800 forms and 46 online applications in both English and French. In 2011, we received more than 84 million visits, with 280 million pages viewed, making ours one of the most heavily visited federal government websites.
[Translation]
While we use our website as both a communications and a service delivery tool, our use of social media is presently intended to complement our other forms of communication and to drive our target publics to primary information sources.
[English]
Our branded YouTube channels, created in 2010, currently have 17 short videos available in both English and French. They have been viewed more than 41,000 times. Providing information on CRA's various tax credits and programs, the YouTube videos are designed to lead viewers to the website for more information. Our video productions are adapted to each official language and are closed-captioned.
We often use anglophone and francophone actors to make two unique videos on the same topic rather than simply translating a voiceover. This is one of the ways we work to respect the language rights of our national audience.
Since launching our Twitter account in February 2011, we have tweeted more than 300 messages and amassed nearly 3,000 followers. French and English tweets are issued simultaneously with tailored labels or hashtags that are germane to each language. Twitter has played a key role in our T1 filing season communications this year. We are tweeting more frequently — generally three or four times a day — about various credits and related tax filing information. User feedback has been positive.
Most recently, we launched a mobile friendly version of our website in January 2012. The first iteration of this site provides mobile users easier access to existing information and services on the CRA website.
[Translation]
Communicating in both official languages is engrained in the way we do business — the introduction of new communications tools does not affect that.
Treasury Board policies and guidelines continue to provide the framework in which we operate, and we look to the best practices of other government departments and agencies to help guide our way forward in the ongoing development of our website and the use of social media.
Thank you for your attention. My colleagues and I would be pleased to answer your questions.
Senator Nolin: I am fascinated to see just how your organizations have taken this mandate seriously and are really pushing the envelope. Did you know what your neighbours were doing?
Should we not instead be changing the operating rules to ensure you get good results? Ms. Frappier talked about using the media to improve the quality of work and to find efficiencies. Transportation costs are being cut. You have used the social media properly. Is this a well-kept secret or was this information available? We do have Treasury Board rules, but should we have a best practices registry?
Ms. Frappier: The social media has engendered a culture of collaboration that did not exist beforehand. Informal groups get together on their own time, after work, to share best practices and solutions.
Senator Nolin: That may be part of this social media culture.
Ms. Frappier: There are some organized groups — I could provide you with a list after the meeting. The GoC3 is one of the groups of people who work in the public service and who share their enthusiasm and dedication for social media and promote it within the organizations.
Senator Nolin: You have answered our question in part. So there is some sort of informal and formal network for disseminating information and experiences?
Ms. Beaudoin: When we do our communications, we usually do some preliminary research on what is already out there and what are the best practices. Given that the social media are a new phenomenon, we have done our research with other departments. The Statistics Canada communications team contacted, for example, Health Canada and Veterans Affairs. The Department of National Defence has also done some great work. We looked at the sites that received the most visits. We contacted these people in order to understand their objectives, see where things had gone smoothly and where they had experienced some glitches. We conducted this exercise for six months or a year before we jumped in. We started with Twitter because people were saying that this was the easiest tool to manage in terms of risk, traffic and use.
Senator Nolin: Does the Treasury Board support you, encourage you or follow up on the initial work you do when you are thinking about implementing a new tool, or does it instead leave you completely on your own so that you can proceed in the way that you feel is best?
Ms. Beaudoin: First, we look at the Government of Canada's communications policy, which covers official languages and computer tools. Many aspects are covered by the communications policy. The Treasury Board has established guidelines on the use of internal wikis. They began by establishing guidelines for internal documents and tools, which we used to go further externally. Recently, the guideline for the external web was published. In that sense, we received documents and assistance. There are also the committees to which you were referring.
Senator Nolin: Formal and informal.
Ms. Beaudoin: Yes, both.
Senator Nolin: It is truly cultural.
Ms. Frappier: Natural Resources Canada was a pioneer in the development of a wiki. We are undoubtedly the first to have launched this idea. We shared our experience with Treasury Board and interested departments. If I am not mistaken, our experience and the lessons learned served to develop the new guideline on social media. So an exchange exists. Our resources are limited. We are not the only ones to have good ideas. There is an appetite to learn from others and to make things better.
Ms. Dorval: I agree with what my colleagues have said. In addition to Treasury Board and the Privy Council, the Communications Community Office within the federal government assists us tremendously and facilitates information exchange. Working groups, committees and subcommittees study specific issues and call on the representatives of different departments to participate.
Senator Nolin: Is that what you call the CCC group?
Ms. Frappier: No.
Senator Nolin: Is that something else?
Ms. Frappier: It is more informal.
Ms. Dorval: In English, CCC means Communications Community Office. It is the real network for communicators.
In the case of the agency, we contacted different departments to learn about their experience before using social media. At the same time, we launched a YouTube video competition, which was quite original at the time, a few years ago.
Senator Nolin: With taxes?
Ms. Dorval: Yes.
Senator Nolin: For taxes?
Ms. Dorval: Yes, for taxes.
Senator Nolin: I am pleased to hear of it. We have what fun we can.
Ms. Dorval: This exercise has been very successful while teaching us a great deal. We found forums to share information with our colleagues in the federal government. There is a real spirit of collaboration in this regard.
Mr. Raider: We have done much the same thing. We contacted a number of departments to find out about their lessons learned and best practices. Social media is relatively new for us. We just launched our Twitter account last week. We wanted to see how other departments developed their sites. We focused on the Government of Canada's communications policy and that of Treasury Board to formulate our guidelines.
Senator Nolin: A few weeks ago, General Bouchard was testifying in a nearby room. He informed us of how important social media was for him and his officers in trying to understand the situation in Libya. Maybe you could contact him to find out how he went about gaining this knowledge.
Senator Tardif: Ms. Frappier, I must say that I was very impressed by this little document, especially the last page.
Ms. Beaudoin: That is the Statistics Canada document.
Senator Tardif: I am sorry, you are right. I found it very well done. It contains so much information. Of course, I am impressed by all of the witnesses' presentations, but I was especially struck by the last page of the Statistics Canada document and the success factors. I think that this is really very important. I am wondering whether this document should not be a guide that all departments could use when evaluating the success of their social media initiatives.
As concerns planning, risk management and vigilance, how do you control the quality of what is set up and produced? How do you ensure that there is a governance structure? Often there is a tremendous number of pages, from many sites and many individuals.
You mentioned the following criteria: rules of engagement, governance structure, bilingual, well-trained teams, testing and simulation before the official launch, constant monitoring of the sites for any non-compliant usage, and responding to comments in a timely fashion. These criteria appear to me to be very important in ensuring success, especially with regard to compliance with the Official Languages Act. Do the other witnesses agree, or do they already use this type of criteria in their departments? I know that for some of you, this is a new area. However, these criteria appear to be very important for quality assurance and the proper governance of the sites. Perhaps Ms. Beaudoin would like to respond?
Why did you identify those criteria? Is it from best practices that you observed in other departments?
Ms. Beaudoin: At the outset, the employees in the communications division were very keen and very present on social media. They are people who are passionate about current events. There was thus a high level of use by our young employees who wanted to get into social media right away. They found that we were a bit slow in doing so.
At the beginning, we felt that with regard to communications management, we had to find a way of managing risk and we started from that point. We had to prepare ourselves properly in order to feel comfortable once we actually engaged with social media.
That is where we first got the idea of planning, risk management and vigilance. Our sites are in real time all day, all night and weekends. As Director General of Communications, I wanted to be comfortable and to be able to say that I was aware of what was happening on the sites. I have a team who manages risk efficiently in cases where inappropriate comments are made. This team is also responsible for answering questions in a timely fashion because we do not want to leave a question asked by a Canadian on the economy up on the site for two days without an answer. We need to answer quickly within the hour.
Essentially, it was to feel prepared that we began by establishing rules of governance. We ended up going further than that but it took a certain amount of time for us to feel ready and for us to say that we had thought of everything and that it was time to go ahead.
Senator Tardif: When you refer to a timely fashion, does that mean that you can answer in both English and French rapidly?
Ms. Beaudoin: Yes. It is an obligation. Our employees have to answer in both official languages. When we have a live chat session, it is bilingual. We have two specialists and two translators, one for French and one for English. Our specialists write in both languages and someone else checks the answer before it is published online.
Senator Tardif: Have you assessed the criteria? It has been two years since you have done an assessment?
Ms. Beaudoin: We have not done an assessment. Our assessment is done case by case, rather than in a report. Our assessment will start at the end of March.
Senator Tardif: Will your assessment be based on some of these criteria?
Ms. Beaudoin: Yes. For example, we assessed the use of Twitter before starting Facebook and YouTube, and that went well.
Senator Tardif: Do you always comply with the Official Languages Act?
Ms. Beaudoin: Definitely.
Mr. Raider: We do too, definitely. Our guidelines stipulate that we must comply with the Official Languages Act and other policies. If someone wants to create a social media account, he or she has to fill out a short form and answer questions like: "Is your idea in line with the priorities of the Canadian Forces?"
The Public Affairs Sector then evaluates the request by going through the form to ensure everything is in order. Afterwards, we determine if we want to create a social media platform.
Ms. Frappier: Our Internet platform is pretty big, but our use of social media is rather timid. Given that we are a scientific organization, we do not reach the general public in the same way that the Canada Revenue Agency or Health Canada does, for example.
That being said, as an appendix to my presentation there is a short planning guide for social media. We invite our employees who are interested to use this means of communication to reflect on a number of questions, including the risk, the purpose and mitigation measures if things do not quite go according to plan.
I will also say that for the intranet, Internet and social media, management is centralized at the department. There is someone who is responsible for ensuring that we comply with all the obligations regarding official languages and communications policies.
Ms. Dorval: That is very similar to what happens at Natural Resources Canada. Everything published goes through the public affairs section of the CRA. We have to ensure that before a message is published, whether it be on Twitter, YouTube or the website, it is bilingual and of equal quality. This practice is integrated into the way we work.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Your presentations are very interesting. You seem very positive and it is nice to hear from witnesses like you. My first question is for Mr. Raider.
Why did the Department of National Defence decide to use two Twitter feeds, one in French and one in English, rather than one bilingual feed?
Mr. Raider: We wanted a platform for each language because we know Canadians communicate differently in English and in French. In our opinion, it was better to have two different accounts so that people can express themselves in the official language of their choice.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: In the French version of your brief, on the second-last page, you mentioned that on International Women's Day you announced the launch of your French and English Twitter accounts. Is it a coincidence that it was International Women's Day or did you have a target audience?
Mr. Raider: No. We took advantage of an important event to launch the Twitter accounts. The timing was good and we chose this event for the launch.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: It was not necessarily to try to target women?
Mr. Raider: No, not necessarily. I would like to add that it is a good point because on the Twitter accounts we also publish recruitment messages. If people are interested in joining the Canadian Forces, they can easily find information and links.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My next question is for all of our witnesses. What are the advantages of holding online consultations with Canadians? Is the response as good from anglophones as from francophones? You have talked about the many advantages of online consultations, but what would the disadvantages be?
Ms. Dorval: Regarding online consultations, there is obviously a big advantage. At a minimal cost, we can reach people across the country and invite them to participate in the consultation. In that regard, it is a clear advantage.
The challenge or the disadvantage would be holding a consultation that is representative of the Canadian public. We cannot control who will respond and it is possible that significant demographic aspects are missing. The data therefore has to be interpreted once it is collected.
Ms. Beaudoin: At Statistics Canada, we do an online survey once a year about our website content and to measure Canadians' satisfaction with our website. The response rate is very low compared to a survey conducted under the Statistics Act. So when we put questions online, the response rate is much lower than when we do a targeted survey with a representative sample to whom we send invitations and follow-ups through the mail or by email. The disadvantage might be the response rate.
Ms. Frappier: For our part, we conducted a study of the needs of our users in terms of access to scientific content. We used a web survey. We asked people: "How do you find our site? Is it useful? Do you quickly find the information you are looking for on it? When you arrive, is it what you are looking for?" The advantage is taking the pulse of our citizens and our users — like industry scientists — in order to ensure they find the information they are seeking.
There are no inherent disadvantages, except perhaps not getting the input of some people who are less comfortable with the Internet. Otherwise, it helps us reorganize our content, so that it is easily accessible, and to increase its visibility and use.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much. Do you have something to add, Mr. Raider?
Mr. Raider: Not specifically in terms of surveys, but I wanted to say that we recently ensured that all of our websites are accessible to all Canadians. Currently, we are going through the new usability standard from Treasury Board, which is another way of ensuring we comply with the standards and conditions set out in the policies. We have until July 31, 2013, so we are working very hard on that now.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much to the four of you.
Senator Poirier: In almost all of the presentations we have heard, not only tonight, many people have talked about the number of people who have visited their website or sent a message on Twitter. They also told us what the percentage of francophones and anglophones was. Are there assessments done to determine the percentage of French- Canadians and English-Canadians who visit your site? Over the years, have you seen it improve and that there are more and more? Is there a difference based on the regions in Canada? For example, if 40,000 people visited your website or viewed a YouTube video, or if 300 people sent you a message, do you have an idea of which area in Canada the messages come from, and do you know if the senders are francophones or anglophones? I have four or five questions at the same time here!
Mr. Raider: In terms of statistics, we know that on our two major corporate websites, forces.gc.ca and forces.ca, which is the recruitment site, in 2001 for example, forces.gc.ca had 2.3 million visitors. We also know that as a percentage, visitors from Ontario ranked first, those from Quebec were second and those from British Columbia were third. It is about the same when we look at the recruitment site; it is the same three provinces. In terms of French or English, on forces.gc.ca there are 5.2 anglophones per francophone, and on forces.ca there are 4.6 anglophones per francophone.
I do not have the statistics for previous years, but if you are interested I can obtain them.
Senator Poirier: These percentages of anglophones and francophones concern the 2.3 million people who visited your site?
Mr. Raider: Yes, that is right. And on forces.ca, there were 4.1 million.
Senator Poirier: Is there a way of knowing if these are different individuals or if it is the same individual visiting the site many times?
Mr. Raider: They are unique visitors, that is one visit, each page.
Ms. Frappier: Unfortunately, I do not have the numbers with me, but I would be pleased to provide them to you.
Senator Poirier: Yes, it would be good if you could send them to the committee.
Ms. Frappier: However, to answer your question on the degree of penetration in the rest of the country, that would be pretty difficult to determine, because we cannot analyze the details of the information provided to us when people visit our websites. We can certainly have an idea of people's profile, and from which large areas they come from; I think we can get, with email addresses, a small idea of where they are located, but with hotmail.com or gmail.com, we do not know where people come from.
Regarding language profile, by analyzing content use we could probably also have a good idea, but it is very difficult to assess penetration from coast to coast.
Ms. Beaudoin: We have statistics, which I do not have with me, on the use of the website by Canadians — not our social media, but our website — as compared to visitors from abroad. I think it is 70/30, 70 per cent Canadians, but I will make sure I send you the information.
The Chair: Ms. Dorval?
[English]
Ms. Dorval: We certainly have information in terms of demographics and who was visiting our website from which regions and whatnot. I do not have most of that information with me, but it is available. I do know that the visits to our website seem to be proportional to the distribution of the Canadian population. In terms of visits in 2011, in English 163 million pages were viewed, and in French, 21 million pages were viewed — just to give you an idea. There is information available, and I would be happy to provide it.
Senator Poirier: I had another question. I am trying to look back through my notes and I am not sure whether it was Mr. Raider who mentioned it. At one point I thought you mentioned something about the statistics in each province. If I remember right in the notes, I am not sure where I saw it or in whose document, somewhere it says 4per cent from Atlantic Canada. Was it you? No, okay, I guess it would not really matter.
Do you do any publicity or education awareness to Canadians, specifically if there are certain areas of Canada where you know that your sites or your visits are not coming from as frequently as other places? Is there any education, promotion or communication to make people aware of it? A lot of times people are just not aware of what is out there. Is there any awareness done in that sense?
Mr. Raider: Are you asking in terms of by web or by other mediums as well?
Senator Poirier: No, by social media also. That is why I was asking for the statistic a while ago on where Canadians are coming from.
If you are on YouTube or on Twitter, are there certain areas of Canada where you get fewer people responding or leaving messages? How do you communicate to your people that you are on Twitter or on YouTube? Is any promotion or communication done?
Mr. Raider: Well, I guess the closest to that would be if someone showed up at a recruitment centre, for instance, and look for information. They could be informed at that time that we have priority occupation videos on YouTube. That would be one instance.
We also have a public inquiries line that we promote through the website. People can call that 1-800 number and they can ask about different DND and CF initiatives and programs. The line is fully bilingual. We have two staff members who answer those questions.
As well, we have fairs and exhibits that travel throughout Canada to talk about the different types of operations we are conducting; for instance, this coming year we will have something on 1812. Depending on the different types of events that are selected for the year, we will travel to those communities.
Senator Poirier: I am not 100 per cent sure I remember correctly, but are you the one who mentioned you just started with Twitter a couple of weeks ago?
Mr. Raider: A week ago.
Senator Poirier: When you start something like this, which is new to your department, do people find you because you are on Twitter or is there some kind of publicity sent out to advise Canadians that you are now on Twitter?
Mr. Raider: We did not do anything specific to launch it other than to tie it to an event and to put it on our home page. We already had approximately 1,300 followers before we even hit the on switch so people were pretty much waiting for us to do that. We knew we had a good following already and so as soon as it was turned on people knew.
Senator Poirier: Do you have any system in place to monitor if it is getting better or if more people are connecting into it?
Ms. Frappier: We track our usage, our followers and our friends on Facebook and we have more friends all the time. Honestly, though, it is too early to say to what degree it is doing what we had intended it to do. In NRCan we have some targeted recruitment. In particular, we visit official language communities in minority situations. We would visit Bishop's University in Quebec or Concordia in Montreal or Campus Saint-Jean at the University of Alberta to talk about the job opportunities at NRCan. Although it was not done specifically with the Part VII obligations, using social media, as well as targeting specific communities, actually helps us branch out a little bit from the typical stakeholders with whom we would interact. It is a little early to say if the impact is what we had hoped it would be.
Ms. Dorval: In terms of Twitter, the CRA has been using Twitter for approximately one year but we really kind of found our mojo in the fall when it comes to Twitter. We are having our first experience in really blending in the use of social media or Twitter with our communications and marketing campaign when it comes to tax filing season.
Having said that, we are doing some modest promotion right now building on other tools and we are doing cross- promotion that way. For example, if we were to post a new video on YouTube, we will tweet to our followers that we have now posted a new video on YouTube. We promote the use of our Twitter and our YouTube on our external website, so we are cross-promoting and that is one way that we are getting out there.
We are doing a lot of tweeting for tax filing season and there is obviously a lot of information we want to get out about tax credits. We have contacted many government departments that have a link with the CRA and asked them to tweet to their followers to encourage people to join CRA, that CRA is tweeting, and we are waiting to see now if that is going to generate some additional followers as well.
It is very early days, but it is absolutely required that efforts be made toward letting people know that those tools exist in order to continue to increase. Of course if they see value in them they tell their friends, and that is the real power of the social media.
[Translation]
Ms. Beaudoin: There are 20 million site visits per year. We feature our social media sites very prominently on our website. In addition to cross-advertising, we use our existing networks. For example, we are well connected to universities, so for our chat sessions we sent information on the fact that we would be having one to academics, to Canadian universities.
We also do email campaigns with municipalities, because they are big users of data locally, to inform them of where to find data, et cetera. We invite them to participate in our social media and also to use our widgets that they can put on the site thanks to which municipal sites could see data on municipalities, such as information on population, numbers, et cetera.
The Chair: I am trying to summarize a bit, in terms of guides that you have that support you in the work that you do. I have to say I am impressed by the work being done in this area. You have the Official Languages Act, which is your guide for respecting linguistic duality and obligations to both official languages; you have the communications policy of the Government of Canada; you have a policy from the Treasury Board Secretariat regarding new media, and you all develop guidelines on the use of social media.
Is there another tool that would allow you to meet your obligations even better in terms of Canada's two official languages and official language minority communities? Are there other tools that would allow you to reach these communities more? I think the challenge is assessing penetration. Would you like to add anything before leaving? The question is for anyone who wants to answer it.
Ms. Frappier: It is a good question.
The Chair: Is there an answer?
Ms. Frappier: The need to respect the rights of individuals and the fact that the information is private and confidential are what make it difficult to assess our reach.
In my opinion, there is a lot of good will, and there is also an appetite for taking calculated risks. Organizations are not willing to take huge risks. I would suggest that the committee wait a few months, a few years to take the pulse again and see if the use of social media has changed the way we interact with citizens or the stakeholders we work with.
The Chair: Would you like to add anything else?
Mr. Raider: For us, it will take some time, because we have just started and we want to see how it goes and also have results before really increasing our presence. So it is new. We are looking at what we do. We are waiting for the results and we will obtain the results that are possible and then, we will see.
Ms. Beaudoin: The tools that are in place are sufficient for now to help us do what we have to do.
Ms. Dorval: I agree with that comment and it is important for organizations to have the infrastructure and also the commitment. I think it already exists, but it is important to see over time that it is maintained.
Senator Tardif: We have talked a lot about a number of aspects regarding departments and social media, but what particular challenge do you think there might be with the use of social media in ensuring that the language rights of Canadians are respected?
Ms. Beaudoin: The use of wikis. The very nature of a wiki is to allow a number of people to collaborate on a document on a site. If 80 per cent of the people work in English or 80 per cent in French, as the wiki grows it will not have the same value in both languages, although the final documents have to be translated and they are. That may be the risk that has to be managed, the wikis, if we put wikis online externally.
Senator Tardif: So it would be in relation to Part V of the Official Languages Act, the language of work. Would you agree with that or do you have another perspective?
Ms. Beaudoin: Yes.
Senator Tardif: So, wikis are manageable in services to the general public, but it is riskier in connection with the whole issue of the language of work. Is that what you are saying?
Ms. Beaudoin: It can be done, but it is more difficult. You need more time.
Senator Tardif: It is more of a challenge.
Ms. Dorval: Concerning the use of the tools as such, there are certain limitations. For example, on Twitter, as I think you know the number of characters for each message is limited. It takes a lot of creativity, let us say, to communicate a message effectively in French and English.
The Chair: Thank you. On behalf of the senators, I would like to thank you for having come to answer our questions today. Your presentations were very motivating. I wish you good luck in the continuation of your work.
Honourable senators, I will suspend the hearing for a few minutes and we will continue in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)