Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 15 - Minutes of Proceedings - May 6, 2013
OTTAWA, Monday, May 6, 2013
(31)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day, at 4:04 p.m., in room 2, Victoria Building, the chair, the Honourable Daniel Lang, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators: Campbell, Dallaire, Day, Lang, Manning, Mitchell, Nolin, Patterson, Plett and White (10).
In attendance: Holly Porteous and Dominique Valiquet, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, April 18, 2013, the committee continued its study on Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 14.)
WITNESSES:
Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat:
Dennis Duggan, Labour Relations Consultant, Strategic Non-CPA Compensation Management;
Kim Gowing, Director, Program Management and Regulatory Policy;
Deborah Weekes, Director, Pension Program Analysis & Reporting, Financial Analysis Group.
Public Safety Canada:
Mark Potter, Director General, Policing Policy Directorate.
Royal Canadian Mounted Police:
Superintendent Michael O'Rielly, Director, Legislative Reform Initiative.
Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada:
Rae Banwarie, President;
Lloyd Pinsent, B.C. Representative, National Executive.
Association des membres de la police montée du Québec Inc.:
Gaëtan Delisle, President;
As individuals:
Staff Sergeant Abe Townsend, National Executive of the RCMP Staff Relations Representative Program;
Staff Sergeant Mike Casault, National Executive of the RCMP Staff Relations Representative Program.
Department of Justice Canada:
Agnès Lévesque, Counsel.
The chair made a statement and Messrs. Duggan and Potter, Weekes, and Superintendent O'Rielly answered questions.
At 4:43 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 4:50 p.m., the committee resumed.
Messrs. Banwarie, Pinsent and Delisle each made a statement and, together, answered questions.
At 5:38 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 5:43 p.m., the committee resumed.
Staff Sergeant Townsend made a statement and, together with Staff Sergeant Casault, answered questions.
At 6:30 p.m., the Honourable Senator White replaced the Honourable Senator Plett as a member of the committee.
At 6:43 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 7:12 p.m., the committee resumed.
Mr. Potter, Superintendent O'Rielly, and Ms. Lévesque were called to the table and answered questions.
It was agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-42, An Act to amend Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.
With leave, it was agreed to group certain clauses of the bill.
It was agreed that the title stand postponed.
It was agreed that the preamble stand postponed.
It was agreed that clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed.
Iit was agreed that clauses 2 to 21 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 22 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Mitchell moved:
That Bill C-42 be amended in clause 22, on page 17,
(a) by replacing line 7 with the following:
"22. (1) Subsections 32(1) and (2) of the Act are''; and
(b) by adding the following after line 12:
"(2) If a grievance has been referred to the Committee under section 33, the Commissioner shall act in accordance with any findings or recommendations set out in the report of the Committee or the Committee Chairman in respect of the grievance, including any recommendation as to the disposition of the grievance.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived.
The chair asked whether clause 22 shall carry.
It was agreed that clause 22 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clauses 23 to 28 shall carry.
It was agreed that clauses 23 to 28 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 29 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Mitchell moved:
That Bill C-42 be amended in clause 29,
(a) on page 20, by replacing line 41 with the following:
"action or proceeding, provided that at all appropriate stages throughout the investigation the conduct authority shall give the member reasonable opportunity to be present and to make representations to the conduct authority in person, in writing or through legal counsel or any other representative.
(2.1) Subject to subsection (2.2), the member shall comply with any requirement to answer a question as provided in subsection (2) within one week after being asked to do so.
(2.2) If satisfied that special circumstances exist, the conduct authority may extend the period referred to in subsection (2.1).'';
(b) on page 21, by deleting lines 37 to 40;
(c) on page 22, by deleting lines 1 to 3; and
(d) on pages 22 and 23, by renumbering subsections 40.2(5) to (10) as subsections 40.2(4) to (9) and any cross- references thereto accordingly.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators:
Campbell, Dallaire, Day, Mitchell — 4
NAYS
The Honourable Senators:
Lang, Manning, Nolin, Patterson, White — 5
The chair asked whether clause 29 shall carry.
It was agreed that clause 29 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 30 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 31 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Mitchell moved:
That Bill C-42 be amended in clause 31, on page 33,
(a) by replacing line 3 with the following:
"sioner shall act in accordance with the findings''; and
(b) by replacing lines 6 to 11 with the following:
"respect of the case, including any recommendation as to the disposition of the appeal.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived.
The chair asked whether clause 31 shall carry.
It was agreed that clause 31 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clauses 32 to 34 carry.
It was agreed that clause 35 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 36 to 41 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 42 to 66 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 67 to 76 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 77 to 85 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 86 shall carry.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators:
Lang, Manning, Nolin, Patterson, White — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators:
Campbell, Dallaire, Day, Mitchell — 4
It was agreed that clause 87 carry.
It was agreed that clause 1, which contain the short title, carry.
It was agreed that the preamble carry.
It was agreed that the title carry.
It was agreed that the committee consider appending observations to the report.
At 8:38 p.m., pursuant to rule 12-16(1)(d), the committee met in camera to consider a draft report (observations).
It was agreed that senators' staff be permitted to remain in the room during the in camera portion of today's meeting.
It was agreed that the committee append observations to the report.
It was agreed that the steering committee approve the final revision of the observations.
At 8:49 p.m., the committee resumed in public.
It was agreed that the chair report this bill to the Senate, with observations.
At 8:50 p.m., pursuant to rule 12-16(1)(d), the committee continued in camera to discuss a draft agenda (future business).
At 8:54 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Joseé Thérien
Clerk of the Committee