Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Social Affairs, Science and Technology
Issue 2 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Wednesday, September 28, 2011
The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology met this day at 4:51 p.m. to consider a draft budget.
Senator Kelvin Kenneth Ogilvie (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: First, I want to welcome everyone back. I hope everyone had a wonderful time in between our last meeting and this one, and that we are all refreshed and ready to move forward on the interesting things before our committee. Certainly, it should be an interesting session. I want to welcome you all back.
With that, I will officially remind us that our agenda today consists of two portions. The first one is an open meeting dealing with a budget aspect for the coming session. The second is an in camera session to deal, hopefully finally, with the PSE report. I will need to suspend the session temporarily as we move between those two portions to make sure that only those who we have approved remain for the in camera session.
With that, honourable senators, the first thing on the agenda is consideration of draft budgets. You all received a copy of the draft budget that has been proposed. This budget is to deal with the health report. We will hopefully get to a point where we want to produce a report, and the budget that is outlined here, and I will go through the sections specifically, is based on the budget that was developed and used for the preparation of the In from the Margins report that was done earlier, which includes the graphics, the lay-out, all of that kind of thing and this kind of general format, and there was also a CD with that particular report. The committee has for the last report, the one we are working on elsewhere, decided that that was a good model to go forward on and the budget that has been developed and you have before you is based on the anticipated costs for producing a report of that nature.
To just remind you, there are two principal parts of that budget, professional and other services, which includes the communication consultant, editing service, and a subtotal there of $17,100; all other expenditures include a miscellaneous expenditure, which is just an anticipated small amount of $500 in case there are any miscellaneous items, and then the printing is a major portion of the budget, anticipated to be $15,000, for a total budget of $32,600. Are there any questions on that budget?
Senator Callbeck: How many reports are we going to print?
Jessica Richardson, Clerk of the Committee: I believe that was — I am going from memory here — 100 to 200 in the initial print. It is actually an executive summary. We will still be doing the full report with Senate printing that is no cost to the committee.
The Chair: To make it clear to everyone, the requested additional printing costs deal with an executive summary and the CD package. The clerk has indicated that for the full report, the Senate budget provides for all the copies we will need to distribute. Is that correct?
Ms. Richardson: Yes.
Senator Eggleton: Are all of these numbers relevant to the health accord?
Ms. Richardson: Yes.
Senator Eggleton: What about the PSE report?
Ms. Richardson: I recommended no budget.
Senator Eggleton: In other words, the PSE report would be done in the traditional fashion.
The Chair: I want to be sure that Senator Callbeck understood the answer.
Senator Callbeck: I am wondering why the PSE report would not be done in that format, which is much superior?
The Chair: We have the opportunity to revisit the budget on PSE, Senator Callbeck, and it would depend on the will of the committee. Given that that was your follow-up, I will now go to Senator Champagne.
Senator Champagne: Just for an executive report, 75 hours for graphic design and 150 hours for editing services seems to me like many, many, many, many hours.
Ms. Richardson: The figures from the graphic designer and the hours required were done by the graphic designer who works in Senate Communications. She was given a copy of this and was asked to estimate how many hours were required to produce it from scratch, and the editing is based on possibly two rounds of editing needed. It is based on someone the committee has used before that is at a lower rate than is the average rate that was quoted to us.
Senator Eggleton: Senator Champagne has indicated a lot of cost here. I find the $15,000 also rather high, if you are only talking about a hundred copies, but are you talking about CDs as well?
Ms. Richardson: We are talking about CDs as well. I think it is actually closer to 200, but I do not have the figure with me.
Senator Eggleton: I think we set a very useful precedent in going to this format when we did the poverty report, In from the Margins, the executive summary, with the flip side for the other language and in the middle a CD that has a 280-page report, whatever it was. I would like to see us to do that for PSE as well. We have a very low budget. We do not travel anywhere. We are not like some committees that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. We come in with a very small budget. I would like to see us do it for both PSE and for the health accord.
The Chair: I will take Senator Callbeck's and Senator Eggleton's suggestions as essentially putting before the committee the suggestion that we have a budget developed for the PSE report that is identical to what we are proposing for the health accord. Is that agreed by the committee?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: We will have that done.
Is the committee prepared to accept an identical budget so that we can go forward to steering, or do we have to have an additional meeting?
Ms. Richardson: We will not need editing services for the PSE.
The Chair: We will not need editing services, so that will be $11,000 less than the one that we have here, but based on the same budget concept, with those elements that we require.
Senator Eggleton: So moved.
Senator Cordy: We have got the full document, but do we have the shortened version? The executive summary is what we are talking about to be published, not the full document, correct? The executive summary is already done?
Ms. Richardson: It is not done for the PSE, but it is written by the analyst. The editing services are done on the full report, and that has already been done for the PSE.
The Chair: Let us just understand this. The motion is to provide a budget based on this budget that we have just put forward for the health accord, and if there are elements in it that we do not need, they will be removed.
Senator Cordy: Thank you.
The Chair: Can we take that? Would you accept that?
Senator Eggleton: Absolutely.
The Chair: That is the motion.
Senator Callbeck: If we do not need the $11,000 in the PSE, can we put it towards printing? It seems to me that 100 is very few.
Senator Eggleton: You will have both.
Senator Callbeck: I know that.
The Chair: I believe one of the issues we have, Senator Callbeck, is that we do not have an absolute confirmed number that this covers. The number that was put forward by the clerk was 100. It is conceivable that it was more like 150 or 200.
Ms. Richardson: I am sorry, senator, I developed these figures last June on the instructions of steering, and I did not bring that particular document here with me today. I apologize. It was based on what was done for this. It could be in the hundreds. I certainly could have that number for you tomorrow. I have it in my office. Unfortunately, I do not remember correctly. I know it was not in the thousands, it was in the hundreds.
Senator Callbeck: Okay.
The Chair: The motion is before you. Are you ready for the question?
The question has been called. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Those opposed? Abstentions?
I declare the motion carried.
We need a formal motion along the following lines. We can only approve one formal motion at this point. I need someone willing to move the following:
That the following special budget application (2004, 10-Year Plan to Strengthen Health Care), for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012, in the amount of $32,600, be approved for submission to the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
Is anyone prepared to so move?
Senator Eggleton so moves. It does not require a seconder in committee.
Is there discussion? Are you ready for the question?
The question has been called. All in favour, so signify.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Those opposed? Contrary?
The motion is carried.
Thank you very much. There is no other item of business. I will suspend the meeting for a short moment to be certain that the room is cleared of those who do not have authority to be here in an in camera session. This committee previously passed a motion that executive assistants of senators could remain for the in camera session. Any other persons other than the officials we need for that session are required to leave.
(The committee continued in camera.)