Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries and Oceans
Issue 1 - Evidence - November 19, 2013
OTTAWA, Tuesday, November 19, 2013
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day at 5:06 p.m., pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to hold an organization meeting.
[Translation]
Maxwell Hollins, Clerk of the Committee: Good afternoon. Welcome to this organization meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. I am Max Hollins, clerk of the committee.
[English]
Honourable senators, there is quorum. As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Stewart Olsen: I would like to nominate Senator Fabian Manning.
An Hon. Senator: I second the nomination.
Mr. Hollins: Are there any other nominations?
Senator Baker: I move the nominations cease.
Mr. Hollins: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Stewart Olsen that the Honourable Senator Manning do take the chair of this committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Hollins: I invite the Honourable Senator Manning to take the chair.
Senator Fabian Manning (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Good evening, everybody, and thank you for your vote of confidence in me to continue on in the role as chair of this committee. I truly enjoy the Fisheries and Oceans Committee anyway, but the opportunity to serve as chair is always an extra bonus, and certainly I look forward to and welcome back familiar faces to the committee. I understand we have a couple of new people around that look we forward to working with.
We certainly have a new clerk. Welcome, Max. We look forward to working with Max, and we had a great working relationship with Danielle when she was here for a considerable amount of time. We look forward to working with you. You will find we get along fairly well here. Now that Senator Baker is here full time, we will be concerned about that, but we will cross those bridges as we go forward, but we certainly look forward to working together with that.
I understand that we also have Ms. Brigitte Lemay. Is she with us? Brigitte is the new communications officer of the committee.
Welcome, Brigitte. I haven't had an opportunity to speak to you yet. I just got your name.
Brigitte will be helping us with communications as we go forward, so we look forward to that also.
We will have a discussion a little later in terms of ideas and suggestions of where we are planning on going. In the meantime, we need to continue with some business that has to be taken care of here this evening.
Our next order of business is the election of the deputy chair. The floor is now open to accept nominations for deputy chair.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: I nominate Honourable Senator Hubley as deputy chair of the committee.
[English]
The Chair: Senator Hubley has been nominated, and I think we have eight people seconding that motion, so I don't think we will have any trouble with that.
Do we need a motion to close nominations? Seeing we are a democracy here, are there any other nominations?
Hon. Senators: No.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried. Congratulations, Senator Hubley.
Senator Hubley: Thank you very much. I share your enthusiasm with the Fisheries Committee, and I'm looking forward to going forward. Thank you all.
The Chair: I look forward to working with Senator Hubley. As I have said publicly and privately, she is a pleasure to work with, and I look forward to her continuing on in that role.
We also now want a Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, deputy chair, and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation.
Do we have a motion to that effect? Just one moment. I just want to consult.
So we just need a motion in regard to the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to be composed of the chair, deputy chair, and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation. We don't necessarily need a name for that; we will handle that afterwards, in a few moments.
And that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings. Could I have someone move that motion?
Senator Baker: So moved.
The Chair: And we don't need seconders for those. I understand that Senator Stewart Olsen will be serving on this committee.
Senator Baker: Hear, hear.
The Chair: We don't need a motion to that effect. I have been advised Senator Stewart Olsen will be joining us as a member of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure with myself and Senator Hubley.
We are also now looking for a motion that the committee publish its proceedings. Could someone move that motion?
Senator Poirier: So moved.
The Chair: All those in favour of that motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried.
We need a motion now on the authorization to hold meetings and receive evidence when quorum is not present.
That, pursuant to rule 12-17, the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the publication of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Could I have someone make that motion first?
Senator Enverga: So moved.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried. These are mostly housekeeping items that are similar to all committees.
We need a motion to the effect that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 12- 26(2), which I believe you have with you also, and that basically has to do with last year's operations.
Is there a motion to that effect?
Senator Beyak: So moved.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried.
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Senator Raine: So moved.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried.
That, pursuant to section 7, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee;
That, pursuant to section 8, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; and
That, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Could I have a mover for that motion?
Senator Wells: So moved.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried.
That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Is there a motion for that?
Senator Stewart Olsen: So moved.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried.
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the committee is on ``official business'' for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
2) consider any member of the committee to be on ``official business'' if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and
That the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Senator Robichaud: I have a question, Mr. Chair. Should a member who does that business get the approval of the steering committee first? Do you see where I'm coming from?
The Chair: Yes. Just bear with me for one moment.
Senator Robichaud: It doesn't say so in the motion. I think it should be clear that — pardon me?
Senator Raine: If you don't get approval ahead of time, you risk being disapproved.
Senator Robichaud: That's the whole point.
Senator Raine: But it has to be approved by the committee.
Senator Robichaud: It can be approved afterwards. I can come and make the case afterwards.
Senator Raine: Yes.
Senator Robichaud: To me, I don't think that's right. It should be beforehand.
Senator Raine: Yes, but sometimes that —
The Chair: I'm just wondering because housekeeping allowing other committees — and I'm just wondering — okay.
Part of the motion is that the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business. So I think that would —
Senator Robichaud: That can be after the fact.
The Chair: The subcommittee would have to make the decision first, though. If you read that the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business, would that lead you to believe that it would be done beforehand, or could it be done afterwards?
Senator Robichaud: Well, this is what I'm asking. If I decide to travel on committee business — let's say I go to a meeting on aquaculture — and then I come back and I say, ``I went to that meeting; I incurred some expenses; will the committee pay for it because I was there as a member of the committee?'' I think I should get the approval before I go rather than after.
The Chair: Maybe we will just put in the word ``prior'' in there.
Senator Baker: Mr. Chair, the way you read it out was ``consider any member of the committee to be on official business if that member is attending an event. . . . or making a presentation . . . . `` It's not ``was attending'' or ``made a presentation,'' so it would indicate that the member would first seek —
The Chair: Have prior approval.
Senator Baker: Yes, because it's not in the past tense, as you read it.
Senator Robichaud: I disagree with you George.
Senator McInnis: That's true. I was going to make a comment to that effect, but I can see where Senator Robichaud is getting this in the wording that the subcommittee report at the ``earliest opportunity,'' which would lead one to believe that while I've been there now I've just got the opportunity to report it. However, you're absolutely right, Senator Baker, if that member ``is'' attending an event, so I think we're fine there.
The Chair: I've been advised that ``is'' works, but if we want to amend it we can. This gives the impression that if that member ``is'' attending it would have to receive approval beforehand.
Senator Robichaud: As long as we are clear, no problem.
Senator Baker: We just decided.
Senator Robichaud: I know you just did, George.
The Chair: Well, don't go travel anywhere, present anything or give a speech or do anything until you check it out here first if you want to get paid. How's that? Do you understand that language?
We still need someone to move the motion.
Senator Robichaud: I second the motion.
The Chair: Senator Robichaud moved that one.
Okay. The next one that we have to deal with is:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
Before we ask for someone to move that, a couple of times this has come up in the past for the simple reason that we had a president of an organization, and there may have been a CEO or a financial person, whatever the case may be. In one case a couple of years ago we had a group here from Newfoundland, and I believe we also had one from New Brunswick, but every now and again it may be a volunteer position where someone serves as president or chair and you could also have a CEO or other person here. I think the reason for this motion is to make sure if the opportunity is required for the two people to present then we can okay that.
Is everybody okay with that?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Will someone move the motion? Senator Hubley.
Next one we have to deal with is communications.
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communication officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of their development and implementation; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee's public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings at its discretion.
That's pretty straightforward on communications. Senator McInnis, is it?
Senator McInnis: Please.
The Chair: Okay.
Just to let you know, our time slot for regular meetings is the same as it was before, Tuesday when the Senate rises but not before 7:00. Usually we run between 5:00 and 7:00, but it won't be if we run late in the Senate sometimes.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: Mr. Chair, if the Senate sits later than 5 o'clock and if the meeting is delayed until the adjournment of the Senate, could we be given a little time to get here before the meeting begins? That would be at your discretion, Mr. Chair; perhaps we could be given the time needed for the shuttle bus to bring us here from the house? Last year I was sometimes late because the meeting began as soon as the house adjourned. I understand that it is preferable to begin as quickly as possible, but those of us who have to stay in the house until it adjourns need about ten minutes to get here, if possible.
[English]
The Chair: I agree and we can certainly agree that we won't start the meeting until at least 10 minutes after the Senate rises. That's common courtesy to give us time to get across the street. A couple of times in the last session we ran into a problem where we had witnesses waiting here. We were fortunate in some cases where they were people within government who were waiting for us, but sometimes we would have to request permission if we had out-of-town guests. Hopefully we won't run into that problem a whole lot. However, it does cause me concern because we're sitting in the Senate, we have people over here and everything is set up and ready to go. We have staff here and everybody's here.
Again, I will consult with steering, but I don't intend on going through that process a whole lot anymore. If we see that we're going to be in the Senate for one hour, for example, after we're supposed to rise and we're not sitting here by six o'clock, if I can see that at three o'clock in the afternoon I'm going to be asking to cancel the meeting for that evening because it creates a lot of unnecessary grief for a lot of people, including ourselves and our staff.
Again, I'll use the best discretion I can with that, but I certainly don't want to go down that road. We did it a few times last year and it was just, to put it point-blank, a mess. Sometimes you may not be able to do that. Most times we know in the Senate when we're going to have a long evening, so if we do we'll be making arrangements. I will consult with steering and we will make that decision.
Our Thursday slot is 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. As we have done in the past, we will not plan on sitting Thursday mornings unless there is a time sensitive issue. There are other committees we sit on. If something needs to be dealt with in a certain period of time we'll use the Thursday morning slot that we have, but I'm not a big pusher on using Thursday mornings unless absolutely necessary. I think we can accomplish our work here. I would rather spend an extra hour on Tuesday evening when we're here, if necessary, than to do it on Thursday morning.
Most of you are familiar with Odette, from the Library of Parliament. She is an analyst. I'm sure she's familiar to most of you. We welcome her back again. I welcome Odette back. Odette was working with us in the past. We look forward to continuing on. Many of you will be familiar with her.
I would also like to take this opportunity, before I get into something else, to thank Danielle, who has served as clerk of the Fisheries and Oceans Committee for quite some time. Again, she was a pleasure to work with, and I certainly enjoyed my time with her. The fact that her better half is a Newfoundlander always helped. We worked on that. Certainly it was a great pleasure working with Danielle, and certainly she had great interest in the committee. I think she got along very well with everybody around the table. I thank her for her time with us and wish her the best on the Banking Committee. You will not find it as interesting as fisheries, I understand, but we will leave that to you. Thanks again very much.
Sometimes we get into a situation here where we have to go in camera, and then it becomes an issue of whether staff can be permitted to stay or have to leave. We have to have a motion each time we do that. Basically, we have a motion here that I would like to just run by you to see if everyone is in agreement. Basically, the motion encapsulates that one staff person will be allowed to stay during in camera meetings unless we decide as a committee otherwise for some specific reason or not. Basically, every in camera session would automatically have a staff person there, if a senator requires. Each committee member will be allowed to have one staff person present at in camera meetings unless there is a decision at a particular meeting to exclude all staff. Is that fine with everybody? A mover for that, please? Senator Wells. Okay.
That takes care of our housekeeping issues for this evening. We will take a break and go into an in camera session here for a few moments to discuss some other issues. I want to thank everybody for their cooperation on getting our house in order as we go forward. We will take a moment here and be back in two minutes. Any questions before we go?
Senator Raine: I just wanted to thank the staff for the document that they circulated. Hopefully the new senators on the committee have taken a look at it. It's a history of what the committee has done. I found it very useful. Thank you very much.
The Chair: I appreciate that very much. Any other comments or questions before we close off this part of the meeting? Thank you very much, Senator Raine. As I said before, we will be back in two.
(The committee continued in camera.)