Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Human Rights
Issue 9 - Evidence - May 29, 2014
OTTAWA, Thursday, May 29, 2014
The Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights met this day at 1:15 p.m. for the consideration of draft budgets to study the international mechanisms toward improving cooperation in the settlement of cross-border family disputes, including Canada's actions to encourage universal adherence to and compliance with the Hague Abductions Convention, and to strengthen cooperation with non-Hague State Parties with the purpose of upholding children's best interests; and to examine and report on how the mandates and practices of the UNHCR and UNICEF have evolved to meet the needs of displaced children in modern conflict situations, with particular attention to the current crisis in Syria.
Senator Mobina S. B. Jaffer (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Everybody has had a look at the budget. I will refresh your memory of what I said on Monday. We are doing two studies at the same time, and to save money we will be travelling on two studies: the Hague Abduction Convention and the Syria study. That is not normally done, but we're doing it to save money.
The plan is to go to The Hague and meet with officials on the Hague Abduction Convention, then we will go to Geneva to meet with officials on the Hague Abduction Convention issue. Then we will take in the Human Rights Council meetings to see the dynamics of what happens there, then meet with UNHCR and UNICEF officials in Geneva. Then we will go on to Lebanon and Jordan. We are going there because Jordan has more formal types of refugee camps and Lebanon has the informal camps, so we would get an idea of what is happening.
We are not going to Turkey because Turkey actually does not come under UNHCR. Turkey finances the camps; they don't come under UNHCR or UNICEF, so they won't help us. Lebanon has the largest number of Syrians refugees at 1 million; they are unorganized.
The budget is in front of you. It sets out our meals, the interpreters and our transportation per diems. The one thing that you may have some concerns about is the bus, instead of taking taxis. We believe taxis would cost more. The taxis are only from the airport — because people arrive at different times — to the hotel. Otherwise, in The Hague, in Geneva and probably in Syria and Lebanon, we will take a charter bus. If there are fewer of us going, we will then get a van, which will save us money. At this point we are budgeting for nine people, plus three staff. If fewer of us go, it will cost less.
Are there any questions? Senator Unger?
Senator Unger: No. I would like to hear what other experienced people have to say.
Senator Eggleton: Would it have made more sense to go to Beirut and Amman first, so that when we get to Geneva or The Hague, there is an opportunity to talk with officials about what we have observed there?
The Chair: We could play with that. We could talk more about that and look at that option. I don't think the cost will be any more because we will be doing the same thing. The idea was that we will talk to officials about what they are doing on the ground, and then go and see if what they say is happening is happening.
Senator Eggleton: I understand that, but I also see there is some value to us observing and saying, ``Look, we saw this. What are you going to do about that?''
The Chair: We were thinking that when we come back — we are continuing with both studies, and we will set up telephone conferences to do another contact with them.
Senator Eggleton: Okay, but maybe you could have a look at the possibility of reversing them.
The Chair: Absolutely.
Senator Eggleton: Is there a time period for doing this?
The Chair: We are looking at going in September because that's when the Human Rights Council is.
Senator Eggleton: This is before the Senate is back in session?
The Chair: Yes. Anything else?
Senator Eggleton: No, that's pretty much it.
Senator Unger: I'm still listening.
The Chair: Are there any questions from anyone else? If there are no questions, can I have a motion to move this budget? Senator Seidman has moved this budget. All those in favour? Anyone opposed? Any abstentions?
Senator Unger: I will abstain.
The Chair: Senator Unger is abstaining.
Thank you all very much for coming at this time.
Senator Eggleton: This is post-adoption: If they're going to cut anything down, I would hope the first priority would be Beirut-Amman, because that's an area I think we need to look at more. We've looked at the Hague Abductions Convention a fair bit already, but to me the priority is those Syrian refugee camps.
The Chair: I agree. Please speak to both of your caucus people on the committee and that would help.
I just want to caution you about the Hague Abductions Convention. We have heard about where we want to go and see how they perceive the Malta Process. We will have one good opportunity to speak to the Secretary-General on Monday. I think our country will face more issues with the Malta Process. The Secretary-General will be here on Monday, so we will get an opportunity to ask him questions.
Thank you very much.
Senator Unger: I have a question concerning those abducted girls. I know this is off-topic, but nonetheless, they have been abducted. The authorities now know where they are, but I haven't heard of any of these UN organizations — the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, the International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children. Do they ever get involved in a situation like this?
The Chair: Senator, I know this is off-topic, but I do know a lot about this because I'm very involved. The thing is that the UN doesn't have the ability to do the kind of work that NATO has. You are the expert.
Senator Eggleton: That's a military thing.
Senator Unger: I know the difference and I know NATO. They know where they are but they're afraid to get them because they will probably all be killed.
The Chair: The U.S., Canada, the U.K. and France are helping. Ban Ki-moon has made many statements, and I'm sure they are involved, but they cannot be involved directly until our countries authorize them. That's the challenge.
Senator Unger: If there was ever a good case. . . . It's horrendous what's happening.
The Chair: I couldn't a agree more.
Senator Eggleton: At the end of the day, the Government of Nigeria will have to have its forces exercised — whatever they can do — to rescue those girls. They say they know where they are, but they're hesitant to go in because they don't want to see them harmed. At the moment, it's a bit of a cat and mouse game.
(The committee adjourned.)