Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Issue No. 26 - Evidence - Meeting of June 1, 2017
OTTAWA, Thursday, June 1, 2017
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met this day at 10:32 a.m. to study foreign relations and international trade generally (topic: recent developments in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela); and in camera, to examine the subject matter of those elements contained in Division 1 of Part 4 of Bill C- 44, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 22, 2017 and other measures (consideration of a draft report).
Senator A. Raynell Andreychuk (Chair) in the chair.
[Editor's Note: Some evidence was presented through a Spanish interpreter.]
[English]
The Chair: The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade will continue our examination on such issues as may arise from time to time relating to foreign relations and international trade generally.
Under this mandate, the committee will hear testimony on the situation in Venezuela.
The committee welcomes opportunities to keep apprised of developments in Venezuela, the challenges facing the Venezuelan people and the implications for the region.
We are pleased to welcome, by video conference from Caracas, Mr. Eudoro Antonio González Dellán, Member of Parliament and Head of the Venezuelan delegation to the Parliament of Mercosur "Parlasur.''
Welcome to the committee, Mr. Dellán. I understand you will deliver your remarks in Spanish.
We will ask our guest to speak slowly so that the interpretation comes through, and we're going to hope that we don't lose any of the video conferencing, as it is our first test into Caracas.
Welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade in Canada. We look forward to your presentation, and then we would like to put questions to you. You have the floor.
[Interpretation]
Eudoro Antonio González Dellán, Member of Parliament and Head of the Venezuelan delegation to the Parliament of Mercosur "Parlasur,'' National Assembly of Venezuela: Good morning, chair, senators. It is an honour and a privilege for me to be here with you today and to share, through video conference, some thoughts on the current situation in Venezuela.
I would have liked to go there personally, but the Venezuelan government arbitrarily cancelled my passport. As a member of Parliament, my passport has been taken away from me and I cannot leave my country. But thanks to technology, I can now present you a summary of the current situation in Venezuela.
I would begin by thanking the Senate, the House of Commons as well the Government of Canada for all the solidarity that has been shown to my country and also recognizing and celebrating yesterday's speech by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Canada at the OAS.
The crisis in Venezuela is an overall crisis because it's economic, social and political. More importantly, it is a humanitarian crisis. There is accumulated inflation in mid-April at 92.8 per cent. We also have almost 52 per cent of the population in extreme poverty and 80 per cent in poverty.
We haven't got the necessary medications for diabetes, high blood pressure and for cancer.
All of these figures are published by independent non-governmental organizations because the government does not publish official data on all of these issues. It has not for about two years.
Given the scope of the crisis that the government is imposing on Venezuelans, in 2006 there were 11,500 persons under one year old —
[Editor's Note: The interpreter would like to indicate that the sound is not sufficient to hear figures.]
[English]
The Chair: If you can speak more loudly. You are going slowly, and that's good, but the interpreters are having trouble catching the figures you are giving. Thank you.
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Yes, absolutely.
I was saying that in 2016 there were, according to an independent, non-governmental organization, because we don't have official figures, 11,467 children who died. That represents a 30 per cent increase compared to 2015.
That's also a 65.79 per cent increase in maternal mortality rates, because the basic medication to provide care to mothers and newborns is not there; it's not available in my country.
This is a quick overview of the humanitarian social crisis, but this crisis is also political and institutional.
In 2006, there were elections for governors and they were supposed to take place every four years. They did not take place. In addition, the presidential recall referendum was not held. The opposition met all of the legal criteria produced by the government through the process to have that referendum, but at the end of the day the government did not call that referendum.
In 2015, a national assembly was elected in Venezuela that got 70 per cent of the popular vote, and approximately 14 million Venezuelans who could vote elected the national assembly, but the government, from the first day, devoted itself to using the Supreme Tribunal of Justice, which has been stacked in its favour because the judges were named before the vote. And they ruled 50 times to annul the national assembly's power, and the ones on March 28 and 29 of this year amount to a coup d'état in Venezuela because it annuls parliamentary immunity and declares that the constitutional chambers of the Supreme Court could have legislative power.
Last year, the government approved the budget of the nation without going through the national assembly, using a decree from the constitutional court, which is an aberration that does away with eight centuries of parliamentary tradition.
With regard to democracy, with all of the parties that are in the democratic opposition, we have demonstrated peacefully to resist this coup d'état by the government itself.
Over 60 people have lost their lives in peaceful demonstrations, most of them young people between 17 and 27 years old, according to official figures of the Ministry of Interior. The Ministry of Interior is an organization that was a bit on the margins of all of this, but the public prosecutor of the republic has now begun to defend the rights of citizens, and it's very important to take that into account.
There are also over 1,900 detainees, most of them young, and people are being judged in military courts and people have been repressed in a brutal and exaggerated manner. That's what happening to Venezuelans demonstrating in the streets. The government is limiting peaceful protests and is preventing Venezuelans from expressing themselves.
What makes the political process even more difficult and complicated is that the government unilaterally convoked a constituent national assembly in a country where just 18 years ago we had a constitution for all Venezuelans, and we have defended the constitution for that reason. But because the government can't find a way to impose its system, they have called together, fraudulently, a constituent assembly to change the constitution. It does not have the necessary elements to do that, because this is not a constitution that comes out of the free and secret ballot of the Venezuelan people. This is a national constituent assembly that is cherry-picked from sectors that the government wants to see sitting there, not from the universal electoral registry of all Venezuelans.
I will give you an example. In Táchira, a state in the west of the country, on the border with Colombia, in the Venezuelan Andes, there were over 800,000 voters, and of those there are 30 members of the constituent assembly that could be chosen.
But in the state of Zulia in the west, where there is a lot of oil, the capital city of that area has 1,900,000 people who can vote, and only a handful will be on the constituent assembly. There has been an arbitrary distribution of the seats for the constituent assembly, which means there is no respect for the right to vote.
The constituent assembly represents certain areas, but other sectors are not being taken into account. Many sectors of civil society are excluded, including Aboriginal people, people with disabilities, entrepreneurs. No one knows exactly what will happen.
The international community has reacted to this coup d'état in Venezuela by the government itself. We know that there was a statement to reject this constituent assembly on March 21 and to reject the brutal repression that Venezuelans are suffering.
We want elections to take place in Venezuela, nothing extraordinary, simply to have democratic mobilization for civilized democracy, free elections, with international observers.
We have been constantly monitoring the international reaction. The U.S., Canada, Costa Rica, Panama, Uruguay, Colombia, Chile, Paraguay, Guatemala, France, Mexico, Germany, the European Union, the United Kingdom and others have all spoken out against what is happening. The crisis for Venezuelans — yesterday, in particular at the OAS, we saw all of the interventions of countries saying the same things. They were talking human rights, free elections preserving human rights, et cetera.
The results yesterday leave us with a number of points. As I said earlier, Canada has had very significant participation with regard to being a co-sponsor of the resolution, and also with the speech by the foreign minister yesterday supporting the resolution. The permanent council, and yesterday's consultations, as talked about constituting —
[Editor's Note: The interpreter would like to indicate that the sound is cutting out.]
Venezuela has seen UNASUR not as an economic alliance but more as an alliance of friends. We can see that there is rejection to the way that Venezuela is dealing with human rights.
At the OAS meeting of foreign ministers, the president of our national assembly read a letter to all foreign ministers, putting forth four points. The first was to have free universal votes in fair conditions and with international observers.
The second was the release of political prisoners. Senators, more than 100 people have been put in jail because of their political opinions, and that is simply unacceptable.
There is also a need for humanitarian assistance for basic medicine and food. People are in the streets trying to find food. The average Venezuelan has lost approximately 19 pounds from lack of food.
Our national assembly was elected by the people in free and democratic elections, and it has to be respected by others in the international community.
We ask the foreign ministers to continue to fight for the rights of Venezuelans. It is very important to immediately create a group of solidarity countries, friends of Venezuela, to re-establish the state of democracy.
Finally, I would say that the international community — and this event is evidence of that — recognizes our demands as being legitimate. That is what we and they are concerned about. They want the crisis to end, and we say that it will end when the Venezuelan people go to vote. That is what we need. We have a very serious crisis. Democracy has been undermined in an unprecedented manner in Venezuela, and I can tell you that we have been watching this very closely, and we thank you for doing the same.
[English]
Senator Eaton: Thank you for your testimony.
Do you live in fear for your life?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Well, in a city like Caracas, the death rate is the highest in the world. It is one of the most dangerous cities in the world. Last year, 28,000 Venezuelans died through violence, and so, yes, all of us in Venezuela are scared for our physical integrity and lives. But now it is worse because the government has promoted a campaign of hate toward those who oppose the government, or any opposition. For example, going to the parliamentary precinct is a risk for all parliamentarians because of the demonstrations, because there are more than nine parliamentarians who have been hurt by the public.
[English]
Senator Eaton: To what extent and in what ways is the opposition united?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: The opposition, as you probably know, is a heterogeneous block of different people from the central democratic side, from the left as well, but our project is to bring democracy back. We are all working toward our common objective, which is to have an election, to have a stable political transition.
The best proof of this is what we saw in the elections where we all participated on a single platform with 113 members.
[English]
Senator Eaton: How likely are you to succeed, and do you see the light at the end of the tunnel?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Well, that's a question that's difficult to answer. Venezuelans tend to be very hopeful by nature. We are men and women who are always trying to look at the future with optimism. But, senator, we are in an unfair fight because we have citizens who are trying to mobilize, to get democracy, and the government is using all of the mechanisms at its disposal, human ones and inhuman ones, to stop the people from carrying out its will.
There are more than 85 per cent of Venezuelans who do not want the government, but the government continues to abuse power, to use the military structure to maintain itself in power. But we are optimistic, and we think that with the determined action of Venezuelans who are mobilized to achieve democracy that we will get there, but we can't do it alone. We need support from anyone who can influence a government that has decided to isolate itself and to take its stand.
We are very encouraged to see what is happening with the international community, and we are hopeful about what could happen.
[English]
Senator Ataullahjan: Thank you for appearing this morning.
You say you need support, so as you have seen, everyone has spoken out in support of you. But the government consistently ignores the world; they are withdrawing from all the international organizations. How can we engage the Venezuelan government if they are not willing to listen or talk to people or be open to anything?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Senator, the Venezuelan government says that it doesn't hear the messages from outside the country, but that's not true because they had a very strong internal campaign against the OAS. Yesterday they swore that they would never go to the OAS again.
Last night the government announced that the foreign minister will be there at the Cancun OAS assembly but had earlier threatened to withdraw.
I think what would work would be individual economic sanctions, because Venezuelans, in general, do not deserve to pay the price of economic sanctions toward the government. But there are significant cases of corruption that cannot be overlooked by the world. The United States has issued a number of economic sanctions against high officials that have been involved in incredibly shameful cases of corruption that had never before been seen in Venezuela. There will be a process of beginning individual sanctions against persons, and that is what they are afraid of.
That is one of the solutions. But as far as the political side goes, no government wants to be isolated even if it says that it does. This government does need to participate in international affairs and to respect international standards of human rights. I think that the government is afraid, in some way, of being accused of violating human rights. But there are true human rights violations taking place, but really for the government to be judged, that's one thing, but can you imagine the human rights violations where a person is drawn in front of a military court? That is a flagrant violation of human rights.
To have people murdered for no reason without any explanation, those are human rights violations. Those are the issues that can be addressed at the highest level so that there can be some political pressure on the government. If all international communities were to do that in unison, then the Venezuelan government would end up understanding and also to have space for negotiation and conversation.
Senator Gold: Mr. Dellán, thank you for your very worrying testimony.
[English]
I would like to ask you a question about the humanitarian dimensions of the crisis. Would you recommend that Canadians organize humanitarian efforts to provide medicines or other necessities to the people of Venezuela? Would you have concerns about whether such actions would be accepted by the government or hijacked by the government or used by the government to solidify their power during this time of political crisis?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Thank you for expressing how you feel about this. I can tell you that a government is in trouble when it cannot recognize that there is a humanitarian crisis going on, because it makes the government feel weak in the international community, and what the government wants to do is deny the crisis.
So I think it would be very important and helpful for there to be support for initiatives that support Venezuelans.
The Venezuelan people are having a very, very difficult time. The ideal of socialism that the government has, has led to a situation where everyone loses in the crisis. That's the equality of the socialism that has been brought in by the Venezuelan government. People are dying in hospitals because they do not have the necessary health care. They do not have the most basic medicine that should be available. There have been some malaria cases; there's been an outbreak. It was eradicated over 70 years ago in Venezuela, but it's back.
So the situation is extremely serious, and what would be wonderful would be to have a humanitarian initiative. That way, we could stop the situation where people are losing their lives because there is no access to basic medicine.
[English]
Senator Marwah: Mr. Dellán, I'm just curious: What's the role of the army, if any? Are they involved with this internal conflict at all? Are they sitting on the sidelines? Is there any danger they might get involved?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Well, this government, senator, arose as a military government, directed mainly by someone who is now deceased, Hugo Chávez, who was a military man. The problems for most Venezuelans are also affecting the families of the Armed Forces personnel. So I think there is a part of the military, the high command, that is very close to the government. And that's something also that is involved in corruption and drug trafficking, according to certain allegations. That's part of it.
But the opposition does not want a military solution to this conflict. We do not want a military solution. Many years ago, Venezuela got over the problems of military rule and coup d'états, so what we want is a space for democracy, for citizens' participation. That is what we want.
This is happening because the institutions of the government have been changing somewhat, but, in fact, the high command of the military is very close to the government, despite the certain actions that some members of the military have shown.
Also, the government has tried to use certain forces for repression purposes, but I think that, in general, the ministers of defence of other countries could perhaps help by obtaining information, and, in the case of Canada, perhaps there could be some dialogue with their Venezuelan counterparts to explain the implications of not intervening democratically, as the constitution establishes, and what we have seen in this conflict.
[English]
Senator Cools: I would like to thank our witness for taking the time and having the composure to speak to us this morning. The tragedy is very evident in your presentation, as are the deep feelings that you have about this subject matter. It's obviously an extremely serious and, I would say, dangerous situation.
The question I wanted to ask you is around the question of military. Militaries in these political crises tend to reflect the population, so if there's a division among the political beings and the leadership, that is usually reflected in the military.
What is the likelihood or what are the possibilities for massive elements of the military to refuse to do what the other side of the military is doing? Are there any such possibilities?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Thank you very much for your question, senator, and also for taking the time to analyze and to listen.
The national assembly, as I was saying earlier, is a genuine expression of the joint work of politicians in Venezuela who are in the opposition, and we have sent a very clear, single message to the military. We have not had different messages; we're not saying different things. All of the democratic union, all of the opposition, has spoken to the military. There's even an agreement within the opposition with the military, where we ask them not to be accomplices of the repressive government, where the government is violating the human rights of people in the streets, to ask the military not to defend a government that is being accused of things like drug trafficking and promotion of terrorism by other countries. We have asked the entire military not to defend corruption.
In the Venezuelan Armed Forces there is a delicate matter with regard to control of the high command by the government; that's very sensitive. It's important to remember that our Armed Forces are very closely linked to Cuba, and Cuba plays a fundamental role in the military here. Here, there are Cuban officials that have commands and that have a great deal of control over what happens within the military here. However, some of them communicate with us. Members of the military communicate with us in a secret fashion and tell us their concerns. There are more than 120,000 men and women in the Venezuelan military. It's not just the 1,800 high officials. So they are also suffering from the lack of security and the protests in Caracas. For a number of the young people who were arrested, it came out later that they were sons and daughters of members of the military who were demonstrating because they did not agree with what was happening.
I think it's important to really take all the measures necessary to be able to convince the military to defend democratic values.
[English]
Senator Cools: I wish I could come up with an idea that could solve all of this, but it's not easy.
We should definitely work on this, chair. Maybe a delegation of people could go, but we have to do something.
The Chair: We will discuss that as we go forward.
Mr. Dellán, I have two questions to put to you. First, if humanitarian aid were to be given, my understanding is that the dilemma and the difficulty is that everything is so centralized in Venezuela that international NGOs or other NGOs working in the country still have to go through government processes, and, therefore, the assurance that, say, the drugs would get to the hospitals or to the nurses or the doctors is very much dependent on the consensus from the government to allow it to happen. Am I correct?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: You're absolutely right. It actually pains me to recognize that you're absolutely right because the government, in defending itself, in its intransigent defence and its denial of the health crisis, for example, is capable of denying access in that way, through bureaucratic channels.
In communication with the UN, the Red Cross, from organizations that would provide assistance, they could perhaps give all of the assurance to those assisting organizations that the medication will get to the people who need it, but it's difficult to ensure that. There has to be urgent work done with the government to ensure that.
[English]
The Chair: You're testifying here by video conference, but you can't leave the country to testify. You did answer the question a bit at the start, but I want to know: We've had witnesses here who felt that after they testified before us, there were consequences back home for them. Do you feel that the government is aware that you are testifying before the Canadian Senate, and do you believe there will be any consequences for you for doing so, or, for that matter, for the Canadians for doing so?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Dellán: Well, if something happens, senator, you will be the first one to know. I'll let you know.
But I have not said anything in my testimony that I haven't repeated a number of times and that the opposition hasn't repeated again and again. I have not added anything to what we have always demanded. So it is hard to believe that a political leader who is asking for elections, citizen participation, respect for human rights and to give medicine to people would actually suffer any kind of retaliation or sanctions.
In my particular case, it's even more serious because I am the head of Venezuela's delegation to the Mercosur Parliament, and Venezuela has an international pact to be a member of Mercosur, which makes it possible for the citizens in this area of the continent to move freely, without needing anything other than basic identification, to visit the countries in Mercosur. But, as a member of the parliamentary delegation, I cannot go to Montevideo to do my job, so this is obviously a government that is very sensitive to any kind of criticism.
I'll give you an example of the OAS yesterday. Many, many gallons of ink have been used to say that the OAS is of no use; it just serves the imperialistic needs of the North. Yesterday they designated a representative.
So, with regard to retaliation, I hope that this intervention of mine will not create any kind of problems for the Government of Canada or for any Canadians. We have an ambassador in Canada who is very active on a number of issues and with whom we have had a very respectful relationship. So we hope that that will continue because the only thing that we have left in Venezuela is the solidarity of friends in the international community. Inside of the country, it is very hard to get enough strength to be able to overcome the crisis, so we need the help of the international community.
[English]
The Chair: Mr. Dellán, on behalf of the committee, I thank you for your testimony today. I can assure you that there is solidarity with the people of Venezuela and, particularly, the compelling evidence of the desperate straits of citizens, both on the health and on the food issues. I cannot believe that in this day and age in Venezuela, with the resources that country has, that children would be in such desperate conditions. It's not tolerable anywhere, and it should not be happening in Venezuela. So I think you will have the solidarity of Canadians to say that there has to be a peaceful resolution of this crisis in Venezuela, and a return to democracy would be the way to do so.
Thank you for your testimony, and I can assure you that we will continue to follow the crisis in Venezuela.
(The committee continued in camera.)