Skip to content
POFO - Standing Committee

Fisheries and Oceans

 

Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on 
Fisheries and Oceans

Issue No. 7 - Evidence - October 26, 2016


HALIFAX, Wednesday, October 26, 2016

The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day at 1:36 p.m. to continue its study on Maritime Search and Rescue activities, including current challenges and opportunities.

Senator Fabian Manning (Chair) in the chair.

[English]

The Chair: Good afternoon. My name is Fabian Manning and I am a senator from Newfoundland and Labrador. I am pleased to chair this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Before I give the floor to our witnesses I would like to ask members of the committee to introduce themselves, starting on my immediate right.

Senator Stewart Olsen: Carolyn Stewart Olsen, New Brunswick.

Senator Hubley: Elizabeth Hubley, Prince Edward Island, Deputy Chair.

Senator Munson: Jim Munson, Ontario, but my heart is in New Brunswick.

Senator Poirier: Rose-May Poirier, New Brunswick.

Senator McInnis: Senator Tom McInnis, Nova Scotia.

Senator Enverga: Senator Tobias Enverga from Ontario but I arrived in Canada at St. John's, Newfoundland.

The Chair: He tries to convince me he is half a Newfoundlander.

The committee is continuing its study on Maritime Search and Rescue activities including current challenges and opportunities. This afternoon we will be hearing about and discussing Maritime SAR operations in the Atlantic region. I will ask our guests to introduce themselves shortly.

We have spent a couple of days here in Nova Scotia visiting several areas. Certainly it has been a very worthwhile exercise for members of the committee. I am sure we will be hearing about some of that this afternoon.

First I would like to ask our guests to introduce themselves and to state their roles and positions. Then I understand we will go to opening remarks and afterward we will go to our senators who I am sure will have some questions they would like to ask.

Major Rhonda Stevens, Officer in Charge, Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Halifax, National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces: Good afternoon. Mr. Chair and senators, my name is Major Rhonda Stevens. I am the officer in charge of the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre here in Halifax.

Wade Spurrell, Assistant Commissioner, Atlantic Region, Canadian Coast Guard: Good afternoon. My name is Wade Spurrell. I am Assistant Commissioner for the Canadian Coast Guard in the Atlantic region.

Harvey Vardy, A/Superintendent, Maritime Search and Rescue, Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Halifax, Canadian Coast Guard: Good afternoon. My name is Harvey Vardy. I am Acting Superintendent for Maritime Search and Rescue in the Atlantic region.

The Chair: I would ask committee members if we could an agreement that the recording of the meeting by electronic means be permitted, provided that it causes the least possible interruption of the committee's deliberations. It is so moved. Is that agreed?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Maj. Stevens: Mr. Chair and senators, I am extremely honoured to have been given the opportunity to appear before you this afternoon and discuss the logistics of Maritime Search and Rescue interventions at the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre here in Halifax.

I have been the officer in charge of JRCC Halifax for the past two years. I am very proud to be in this position, especially having grown up in a small fishing community in Outport, Newfoundland, where most of my family makes their livelihood on the water. I have been in the Canadian Armed Forces for 24 years and have amassed over 3,000 hours as a search and rescue navigator on the Buffalo aircraft and as a navigator instructor on the Dash 8.

The Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Halifax is one of three search and rescue centres in Canada. It is jointly operated by the Canadian Armed Forces and the Canadian Coast Guard. JRCC Halifax is equipped with trained staff capable of controlling and coordinating search operations. Within JRCC Halifax, Canadian Armed Forces personnel conduct the coordination and control of aeronautical SAR operations while Coast Guard personnel conduct the coordination and control of maritime operations, all functioning together effectively as a team to ensure that the response to distress incidents is coordinated effectively.

JRCC Halifax has a total of 30 Coast Guard and Canadian Armed Forces coordinators. Each shift at JRCC is 12 hours long and consists of three Coast Guard coordinators, one aeronautical and one air assistant. The coordinators are specialists in operational search and rescue, having sailed and held watchkeeping tickets on Coast Guard vessels or having flown Canadian Armed Forces search and rescue aircraft.

Prior to becoming qualified as a coordinator at JRCC each selected candidate must successfully complete a series of essential qualifications including the search and rescue mission coordinator course at the Canadian Coast Guard College in Sydney, Nova Scotia. Once at the rescue centre the coordinator undergoes months of intensive training prior to being evaluated and certified. JRCC Halifax provides search and rescue services in both official languages.

To date JRCC responded to 2,204 cases in 2016. A case is opened whenever the search and rescue system is activated and a response of any level is required. SAR cases are classified as aeronautical, maritime or humanitarian. As 80 per cent of the Halifax search and rescue region consists of ocean, the majority of the SAR cases are of a maritime nature.

In preparation for a shift coordinators are briefed on numerous mission critical items including weather conditions in the region, the status of primary and secondary search and rescue resources and activities of increased risk within the region such as the opening of a high-risk fishery and exercises. Being aware of mission critical criteria enables assessments to be made in a timely manner when a distress call is received.

In emergency situations requiring immediate assistance positive action must be taken quickly. Search and rescue mission coordinators must use his or her judgment and experience to assess and determine the degree of the emergency. Safety of all involved is paramount.

Communication in search and rescue is vital and it consists of a number of components. These include the means by which the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre receives the distress alert, communication between JRCC and the resources and agencies that are responding to a distress case, and communication with the public and the next of kin.

JRCC utilizes and relies on a wide array of communication tools that extend internationally and are key to conducting the mission. These tools include the 406 megahertz distress beacon, satellites, high frequency radios, iridium and cellular phones to name a few.

As I mentioned JRCC Halifax's role is to conduct, coordinate and control the response to a SAR case. The response often involves a combination of resources and agencies. Search and rescue resources are located strategically throughout the region and they maintain a 24-7 readiness posture with highly skilled and trained search and rescue crews.

Resources include Canadian Armed Forces and Canadian Coast Guard primary and secondary SAR resources, Coast Guard auxiliary vessels located throughout the region, Civil Air Search and Rescue Association volunteers, vessels of opportunity, offshore oil rigs, and many others.

I will close by sharing with you the example of a recent effort to rescue five sailors whose racing trimaran capsized while crossing the Atlantic Ocean on July 17 some 360 nautical miles southeast of Newfoundland. The vessel issued a distress signal shortly after midnight. The captain had sustained serious injury and his four crew members clung to the overturned vessel. Upon receiving the distress alert air and marine coordinators at JRCC Halifax immediately jumped into action coordinating the rescue response.

A Cormorant helicopter and Hercules aircraft were tasked as well as the Coast Guard vessel Leonard J. Cowley. Simultaneously a distress broadcast was issued and a search for all vessels in the area was conducted. A motor tanker transiting through the area responded to the distress broadcast and extracted the five sailors from the Atlantic Ocean.

The Cormorant helicopter crew was able to use an offshore oil platform to refuel and extend its range. The injured crew member was hoisted on to the Cormorant, flown to the Health Sciences Centre in St. John's, Newfoundland, and successfully transferred to Eastern Health services. The remaining crew was transferred to the Coast Guard ship and provided treatment by the rescue specialist as they continued to port.

The national SAR program is a co-operative effort by federal, provincial and municipal governments along with SAR organizations. The collaboration and contingency plans established with the many agencies and SAR partners involved with search and rescue is key to coordinating and conducting an effective rescue and in turn meeting the national search and rescue objective of preventing loss of life and injury.

That concludes my opening remarks. I would like to thank you, Mr. Chair and the committee members, for providing me an opportunity to address you today.

Mr. Spurrell: I will be making opening remarks on behalf of myself and Mr. Vardy.

[Translation]

Mr. Chair, senators, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify before the committee. My name is Wade Spurrell and I am the Assistant Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard, Atlantic Region. Also appearing with me here today from the Coast Guard is Harvey Vardy, Superintendent, Maritime Search and Rescue. As the Assistant Commissioner for the Canadian Coast Guard, Atlantic Region, it is a pleasure to appear before you to talk about the Coast Guard's role in maritime search and rescue in Canada.

The safety of life at sea is of utmost importance, and I can tell you with confidence that the men and women of the Coast Guard, both serving in the fleet and posted ashore, have the utmost pride in our role in the national search and rescue program.

The Canadian Coast Guard, Atlantic Region, was formed in 2012, combining the former Newfoundland and Labrador region and the Maritimes region. It encompasses the four Atlantic provinces: Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island.

[English]

In the Atlantic region we have 1,838 employees of which 1,180 are seagoing and approximately 658 are shore based. We have 20 large vessels, 21 small vessels including 15 SAR lifeboats, 9 helicopters and 9 seasonal inshore rescue base stations.

As part of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans the Coast Guard is the principal civilian maritime operational arm of the Government of Canada. The Coast Guard operates a fleet of vessels and provides services for search and rescue, environmental response, ice-breaking, marine navigation services, and marine communications and traffic services. The Coast Guard also provides maritime support and services to departmental programs of science and fisheries conservation and protection as well as to other agencies in all levels of government.

With search and rescue being a fundamental Coast Guard program we are responsible for a number of SAR tasks. These include the detection of maritime incidents and with the assistance of the Department of National Defense the coordination, control and conduct of SAR operations in maritime SAR situations within Canadian areas of federal responsibility; the provision of maritime resources to help with aeronautical SAR operations as necessary; and when and where available the provision of search and rescue resources to assist in humanitarian and civil incidents within provincial, territorial or municipal areas.

Today I would like to focus on search and rescue in Eastern Canada. The Halifax search and rescue region is one of three search and rescue regions in Canada. It encompasses all of the Atlantic provinces, half of Quebec, the southern half of Baffin Island, and eastward to 30ºW longitude. It is a very busy region for search and rescue activity.

From 2011 to 2015 the JRCC coordinated an average of 2,375 cases each year with maritime cases averaging 1,635 yearly. Search and rescue activities in the Halifax SRR do not come without challenges. The Halifax SRR covers 4.7 million square kilometres. When we are talking about an area so vast, one of the first challenges is getting to the outermost reaches of our region. Whether transiting in the southern portion of our region to the Canadian Arctic or halfway across the Atlantic Ocean, the required immense distances to be covered could mean hours before an aircraft or vessel could be on scene.

In addition to their geographical size the coastlines of the Atlantic region offer some of the world's most challenging environmental conditions for maritime SAR activity. On the East Coast there are severe sea state and storm force winds, freezing spray, ice cover and fog.

During winter storms waves can reach significant heights and winds measuring 160 kilometres per hour are not uncommon. During the spring and summer months, large areas have reduced visibility due to fog. We have the highest recorded tides in the world in the Bay of Fundy. We have arctic ice and significant areas that are not chartered to modern standards in the Arctic.

Portions of the Atlantic region are comprised of shifting sand and mud. Northern New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, P.E.I., the Bay of Fundy and other coastlines consist of rocky shoals extending over 30 kilometres out to sea.

Under the SAR program National Defence and the Canadian Coast Guard co-ordinate and respond to air and maritime SAR incidents through the JRCC. DND delivers primary air services for both air and maritime incidents, provides a high level of secondary SAR support from its aircraft, and coordinates the activities of the CASARA, the Civil Air Search and Rescue Association, a volunteer organization.

As provider of the primary maritime SAR response element the Canadian Coast Guard augments this by the use of multi-tasked and secondary SAR vessels. Furthermore the Coast Guard oversees the activities of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary, a volunteer organization.

The Coast Guard search and rescue program mission statement is: "To save and protect lives in the Maritime environment.'' The program involves searching for and providing assistance to people, ships or other craft that are believed to be in imminent danger. Operations which include search, rescue and incident coordination form the very heart of the marine SAR system.

The Canadian Coast Guard is well equipped to respond to maritime search and rescue incidents in Eastern Canada. We have dedicated primary search and rescue cutters poised 24-7 to respond to search and rescue incidents within 30 minutes of an alert 365 days a year. These primary SAR assets are strategically placed throughout Eastern Canada. They comprise nine Arun-class lifeboats, the type you saw in Sambro on Monday, and six Cape-class motor lifeboats.

The CCG has a fleet of 26 other vessels operating in various programs that are tasked to SAR when needed. The Coast Guard also operates nine seasonal inshore rescue boat stations in Atlantic Canada with the collaboration of the Canadian Coast Guard's inshore rescue boat service. Each station is equipped with a 7.5 metre fast rescue craft capable of operating at speeds in excess of 24 knots.

During the months of May to September student IRB crews are tasked to respond and provide assistance to mariners in distress or need of assistance. In the Atlantic region the CCG marine communications and traffic services program provides services to assist SAR and the marine community through five MCTS centres.

These services include detecting distress situations, coordinating communications and ensuring help is delivered promptly. These services are delivered 24 hours a day seven days a week.

The real on water risk of an accident is constantly changing. Examples could be fishing vessels fishing farther offshore, more pleasure craft at sea, an expanding ecotourism industry in all reaches of the region, more cruise ships and tour boats with more people on board, the expansion of the oil and gas industry with exploration and drilling moving farther offshore and into the Arctic, increased tanker traffic in ports of Saint John, New Brunswick, Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia and Placentia Bay, Newfoundland, and the possibility of an Energy East project.

There are always challenges with covering such a vast area which is more prevalent when it comes to offshore SAR. The age of the Coast Guard fleet can present challenges with maintaining continuous offshore coverage. However these challenges will be addressed through the national shipbuilding procurement program.

A visible sign of Coast Guard's investment in our future is evident with the delivery of our new helicopters. With the anticipated arrival of the new Bell 429 in the spring I am pleased to note that our region will have received a total of seven new helicopters. In addition, four new Bell 412 helicopters are slated for arrival between October and December and another three between January and April 2017. These new helicopters provide enhanced support for the maintenance of our assets and the delivery of our programs. The increased lift capacity and state-of-the-art technology on board will serve us well into the future.

The Coast Guard cannot and does not respond solely to maritime search and rescue incidents in Canada. Rather we have a very strong partnership with other federal, provincial and municipal government departments. Some examples could be the Department of National Defence, the RCMP, Transport Canada, Parks Canada, provincial and municipal police agencies and 911 centres throughout the region, just to name a few. In addition we have a particularly strong partnership with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary.

In Coast Guard Atlantic we work with the Coast Guard Auxiliary, Maritimes, which comprises 790 members and 460 privately owned vessels from the Maritime provinces, Îles-de-la-Madeleine and the Coast Guard Auxiliary, Newfoundland and Labrador which comprises of 750 members with 425 vessels from the province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

[Translation]

Canadian Coast Guard search and rescue units are capable of responding to the vast majority of marine search and rescue challenges found in the Canadian environment. This high-level capability is delivered by skilled, full-time, professional crews using specialized vessels and equipment. Frequent operational exercises ensure a high level of readiness and proficiency. On average, the Canadian Coast Guard organizes and participates in a dozen multi-agency search and rescue exercises throughout the year, with participation from the Department of National Defence, the RCMP, local fire services, ground search and rescue and Canadian Coast Guard auxiliary units. In addition, we organize a joint Canada/US SAREX in Passamaquoddy Bay every fall. This exercise has units from the Canadian Coast Guard, the US Coast Guard, and auxiliaries from both countries. We also work with authorities to plan and execute a search and rescue exercise in the waters surrounding Saint Pierre and Miquelon and the south coast of Newfoundland.

Ladies and gentlemen, in closing, as you can see, the maritime search and rescue program of the Canadian Coast Guard is not only far-reaching, but it is also very costly. While we will always be there to provide this valuable life saving service to all mariners, the Canadian Coast Guard strongly supports search and rescue prevention, and we would welcome the day when we would not have to sail a ship or launch an aircraft in response to a search and rescue mission. While we will never eliminate the need for this valuable service, it is important for us to work together in our common goal to reduce the number and severity of search and rescue incidents.

I would like once again to offer my thanks for the invitation to speak with you today, and we look forward to responding to your questions.

[English]

The Chair: We have plenty of senators who would like to ask questions, but we are going to start, as we usually do, with our deputy chair, Senator Hubley. The question may be pointed to one person but anybody can add a few words at any time.

Senator Hubley: It is nice to see you again and I have to say a big thank you for showing us your hospitality yesterday and bringing us up to date on all of the information you were able to share with us.

I am going to go back to the response time, if I might. A 30-minute response time 24-7 was mentioned today. Do all the partners you work with have the same capacity for a 30-minute 24-7 response time?

Mr. Spurrell: There are really two parts to that question. I will answer the first part and then hand it off to Major Stevens. When I say 30 minutes that would apply to the primary assets of the Canadian Coast Guard on dedicated search and rescue. Any secondary assets in the Coast Guard such as a ship on ice-breaking or doing a buoy program have a response time of 60 minutes. Depending on the program it might get away quicker than that. If the vessel was at sea it might be as simple as altering course.

Participating vessels of opportunity that just happen to be in the area, they wouldn't have a level of service in that area. Concerning the auxiliary I am sure they can speak to it this afternoon, but it depends on whether the vessel is at sea or if the auxiliary members are at home and they have to get on their way. That would cover the response time for dedicated resources.

For the Department of National Defence aircraft I will have to turn to Major Stevens.

Maj. Stevens: Madam Senator, within the Canadian Armed Forces the primary search and rescue aircraft, the Hercules and the Cormorant within this region, maintain a 30-minute search and rescue posture on Monday to Friday from eight o'clock in the morning until four o'clock in the afternoon. For the remaining hours from four o'clock in the afternoon until the next morning and during the weekends they are on a two-hour posture.

Following the Auditor General's report of 2013 a three-year study was conducted and data was gathered to look at the summer SAR months, a period that was determined to have an increased volume of SAR cases. Based on that study and the information that was gathered the posture for the primary search and rescue resources nationally was adopted by the search and rescue region. That was changed from the May long weekend to the September long weekend to capture periods of increased search and rescue activity.

One of the items I would like to note with regard to the response time for those primary aircraft is the national average. During the 30-minute response time 23 minutes is the national average for search and rescue crews to be airborne and during the two-hour window it is one hour and eight minutes. Unless there is a factor such as weather that is beyond their control or mechanical issues with the aircraft, once the crew is tasked that is the time they have to be airborne responding to a case.

I would like to note that the aircraft you saw today that are holding primary search and rescue callouts are generally, during their 30-minute window, training throughout the region. They could be at any location when we call. If a case takes place over the Prince Edward Island area they may be training off Cape Breton. They are becoming familiar with the various areas that are in our region. I hope that answers your question.

Senator Hubley: It does indeed. I will just ask another quick one before we move on. I know there will be a lot of questions. I am just going to ask you to clarify something for us all. We are all quite familiar with the aeronautical and the marine SAR cases as classified but tell us what the humanitarian involves.

Mr. Spurrell: I don't know.

Maj. Stevens: With regard to the humanitarian that is a complementary task or a secondary task of the Canadian Armed Forces and the Canadian Coast Guard. When we receive a request from the province or the territory advising us that they could use one of our resources to support them, we will assist if we are not engaged in primary operations. Even when we are engaged in primary operations we are looking at other means to assist because ultimately it means there is a life in danger and our mandate is to rescue those people.

We work closely with them. If we change our primary response posture for any reason we liaise with our SAR partners on a regular basis and when they require assistance we do our best to try and assist. At the same time we may require their assistance and that happens quite often.

For example, if we are conducting a maritime search we may need ground search and rescue members to assist with a coastal search. That happened on a number of search cases such as the search and rescue of Pop's Pride, which was the name of the case. It was a fishing vessel off Cape Spear, Newfoundland, that was reported overdue on September 7. It involved the shoreline search from the air, from vessels and from ground search and rescue members.

We liaise closely with EMO, and in Newfoundland that is FES — Fire and Emergency Services — and emergency measures organizations. As well we liaise very closely with the RCMP, the provincial constabularies and the provincial police.

Senator Hubley: If the province had asked for that special service would they pay for the service as well?

Maj. Stevens: I did not say that the province would have to pay for services.

Senator Hubley: They do.

Maj. Stevens: We don't charge for our services.

Senator Poirier: I personally thank you for all the hospitality you have given us over the last two days. Actually everywhere we have been has been very knowledgeable.

One of the reasons we are doing the report is not only to hear of all the good that is out there. We also want to know if there are concerns or some things that we can actually flag in our report to see if there is any way we can help you guys to have more adequate and better things out there if they are needed.

One of the things that we heard was actually on the vessels. We know there are some vessels that will be changed over time. We heard many different comments about the changes to some of the vessels that are coming.

Actually the question I want to ask is: Are the new ones better that are coming? Are they going to better answer your need?

Mr. Spurrell: Changing assets is always a difficult process. I vividly recall when the class of lifeboat that is there now came in and the people who operated the old class were concerned about the new boat.

The new class of lifeboat meets all the statement of requirements that the SAR program has laid down. The concerns at this point are how the boat will react after it has been modified to meet Canadian requirements. Those are both regulatory. Any time you bring a boat design in from a foreign country you have to get it through Transport Canada.

When we look at the requirements for a class of lifeboats they are the requirements for the whole class in stations across the country. Often you have a situation where individuals want a specific boat for their location but we can't build a dozen different types of lifeboat.

The lifeboat design itself is a proven design from European operations. I haven't seen the new boat design and I haven't seen the tests on the new design. Everything I have received so far from procurement and our people who looked at the design requirements in headquarters seem very positive about the arrival of a new class of boat.

Senator Poirier: Because we have heard some contrary comments that some of the vessels out there now have the ability to turn around completely and the new ones will not have that. That was one of the issues that was brought up.

We have also heard comments that on the vessels out there on search and rescue, there used to be crews of five. Now they are down to four. That is a set of eyes that is no longer there. There were concerns about that. Could you please comment on that?

Mr. Spurrell: I can't speak on the self-righting characteristic. The self-righting characteristic is usually something that is designed into the smaller craft. It is something that would happen to a smaller vessel than it normally would to a larger ship. I really can't speak to that.

On the crewing complement we have had four people on the lifeboat class as long as I can remember and my experience goes back to the mid-1990s. At one time we had a boating safety officer attached to some of those stations and that person could be involved in the operations. I have been involved in the crewing of the fleet since the mid-1990s and I don't recall our having any more than four people on those boats.

Senator Poirier: We heard a bit of that even this morning with the new Hercules that are coming in. Again there is concern that the new ones coming in may not be equipped the same or as good as the old ones.

When things like this happen is any consultation at all done? Does anybody reach out to the people that are actually working on the boats or vessels to see what they would recommend to improve what they have?

Mr. Spurrell: Again I can't speak to the aircraft side, but on the fleet side when we look at replacing an asset or a class of vessels we look at the statement of requirements that may be dictated by the program. At the end of the day we reach out to our users, the ship crews and the ship officers who have to operate those vessels.

Obviously we don't give a veto to every person in the organization who wants a specific point on the boat, but we do reach out and set out a project team for the acquisition of significant assets. Once they are acquired there will be a period of review to see if we have any concerns with the class of the vessel. Do we need anything amended?

That is normally done across the whole class. We found there is an advantage to having a class of boats all exactly the same. It is easier to maintain. It is easier to train. We are looking a couple of different designs. We are not trying to put a round peg in a square hole here. We have a number of different types of designs but once we look at a class like the bay class that are coming in we will hold them to being operated and maintained in the same manner.

Senator Poirier: How will you address the concerns of the people working on the vessels about the coming changes?

Mr. Spurrell: As I said earlier, change is not easy if you take a situation where someone has been using one type of boat for 25 or 30 years. In addition we have a process where they can introduce suggested changes in the class of boat if they want like, for example, a piece of electronics moved from the port side to the starboard side. There is a process for that where they can request that change.

We also have an internal safety system. If any employee feels that things could be changed to enhance safety or enhance operation we have a process for that too. There are at least two processes by which individuals can reach out and make suggested changes.

Senator Stewart Olsen: It is great to see you again. Thanks for yesterday. I have several questions. One is going back to the response centres and the number of personnel. In an emergency who takes the lead? Who is the boss in emergency situations?

Maj. Stevens: Generally at the rescue centre when the call comes in the air coordinator will have the lead if it is of an aeronautical nature. If it is of a maritime nature there is a lead Coast Guard coordinator. However everyone has tasks that need to be completed. They are well versed in what those tasks are.

The advantage is that multiple activities are taking place at the same time, which is key to being efficient and ensuring we can get the resources on scene as quick as possible.

Senator Stewart Olsen: If you were going to discuss in a broader sense the ongoing work have you identified any holes in the response that perhaps need a bit of attention? Have you identified anything like that?

I know that after every situation you probably have a reprise of the situation and how it was handled. Are you finding anything at all that you need to do better or improve that you would need funding for or anything like that?

Maj. Stevens: As I mentioned in the opening, communication is key with search and rescue because there are many departments and organizations involved. After every mission we do a scrubdown to ensure that the mission was handled as effectively as possible.

We have a standards team that evaluates the missions. If there are any gaps or areas that need to be worked on with other agencies or within our own agency, we try to ensure that every case is handled and prosecuted to the highest standard.

Communications is definitely an area that requires continuous maintenance within our organization with external agencies. Whether it be regular meetings, training or exercises, it is something we continuously work on.

Senator Stewart Olsen: I have one more question on that and then I have one on the procurement side. Is there any looking at your response times? I like the 30 minutes. I understand the 60 minutes. When you give us the answer to that it sounds like we are a 9:00 to 5:00 organization and at five o'clock we go home and then call people back in.

I don't like to hear that and I am pretty sure that is certainly not the way it is. I would like you to go back to that and talk a bit about it. If you work in an emergency room and your night shift takes twice the time to respond to a cardiac arrest, do you see what I mean? I wonder if you can give us a bit on that.

Maj. Stevens: What is unique about the business we conduct with regard to the response time is that we have the flexibility on the Canadian Armed Forces side to adjust those hours. We are continuously monitoring when high risk activities occur.

For example, on November 8, which is coming up in two weeks, a high-risk fishery is scheduled to open at 6 a.m. should there not be any weather factors to prevent that. Although our 30-minute posture for the Hercules and Cormorant in Greenwood would start on a regular day with just routine activity at 8 a.m. we will have the aircraft overhead on the opening day at 6 a.m.

We have the flexibility to adjust those hours. As I mentioned this summer within all the regions the posture was different but I will speak to the Halifax search and rescue region. I believe the distress call statistics that were gathered dated back to 2008 to see when is the highest period. It was determined that on Saturdays and Sundays during the summer months the volume of calls was much more frequent.

The posture was adapted. The two-hour calls actually reverted to Thursday and Friday within the Halifax rescue region and the hours were moved to later. The crews then started at 11 a.m. and they ended at 6 p.m. in the evening.

Senator Stewart Olsen: Just for clarification, are you saying then that in your response you had the planes in the air?

Maj. Stevens: On a 30-minute response. They may be in the air training at the time or they may have landed at the various airports during those hours. In the summer they moved the hours from the May long weekend to September so it was a later start in the day. The study revealed that we captured more cases during those periods. That three-year trial was conducted to try and capture the best window of search and rescue cases.

We find also that during the Christmas/New Year's period we have no cases. For the past two years there were no cases where the Canadian Armed Forces aircraft were called upon to respond. We monitor the trends and adapt the posture accordingly. We also advise our search and rescue partners so that they are aware of our posture. As I mentioned the response time is much quicker than the two hours.

Senator Stewart Olsen: I understand you and I hear you but emergencies occur and set your new statistics. I will just leave that there.

Do you give input on the procurement side with the new vessels? Procurement is almost a separate department once they get going. What is your input? Do you have a lot of say? They are tendering for the latest new vessel and I would like to be reassured of that.

Mr. Spurrell: I will be the first person to acknowledge that I am not an expert in procurement, but I did work in Ottawa for two years as the director general of fleet operations. One of the first steps for us is to lay down a clear statement of requirements. What do we want designed into the boat? It would be boats or ships for us.

We have a small shipbuilding procurement section in the Canadian Coast Guard major capital. Once they get far enough down the road they will be liaising with the new Public Works. My apologies but I can never remember their new acronym. They will work with Public Works because these are very expensive assets. As a result the purchase of new helicopters, the construction of new ships or boats or the acquisition of small rescue boats is a very expensive process.

Public Works would be engaged with us. For any more clarity than that you would have talk to my colleagues in Ottawa. My apologies but I can't answer any better than that.

The Chair: I have a supplementary to Senator Stewart Olsen's questions, Major Stevens, just to make sure we are clear. From the May 21 weekend to Labour Day weekend the response of primary assets is a half-hour across the 24 hours. We have staff there ready to move. It is not like the staff is reduced after four o'clock or five o'clock in the afternoon or they are there for a 24-hour period. Would that be correct?

Maj. Stevens: No. I will just clarify. The weekday is adjusted instead of it being a Monday to Friday. It is different per region. It is still five days in a row, 40 hours a week of 30-minute response posture but it is capturing the highest volume. In all the regions this year Saturdays and Sundays actually fell to a 30-minute posture but it was still an eight hour period per day.

The Chair: It is still situational.

Maj. Stevens: It is still eight hours. Instead of 8:00 to 4:00 the posture was adjusted. I believe in this region I believe I said it was eleven o'clock before. It was from ten o'clock to six o'clock to give an eight-hour day. They found that there was a higher volume of calls toward the end of the day.

The Chair: The hours were moved.

Maj. Stevens: That is right and that was all based on the analysis of statistics taken by DRDC research council.

The Chair: We met with the Transportation Safety Board the week before last. One of the issues they raised with us was that the Department of National Defence search and rescue standby times for response varied from a maximum of 30 minutes during work periods to a maximum of two hours during quiet hours. However a total of 60 per cent search and rescue activities took place during regular work hours when the 30-minute response time was in place. Basically with the information you received through the studies you just adjusted the hours to the peak times.

Maj. Stevens: That is correct and it is different based on the activity of each region. Our region tends to have more maritime cases a little more industry based with offshore fishing, whereas if you look at the Trenton region and the Great Lakes it is much more recreationally focused during the summer months. The hours are varied and the days shifted to accommodate the largest percentage of search and rescue cases.

The Chair: It could be different in each region based on the information.

Maj. Stevens: It was different in each region for last summer, yes.

Senator Munson: I wasn't here for your hospitality yesterday but it is the Maritimes so it has to be positive, doesn't it? I have a group of questions here, first with the major. You said in your opening statement the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Halifax has a total of 30 Coast Guard and Canadian Armed Forces coordinators. That doesn't seem like a lot particularly if you are talking an emergency and so on. Wouldn't there be some kind of fatigue here? Do you feel perhaps that this should be beefed up a bit?

Maj. Stevens: The staff at JRCC work 12-hour shifts and three Coast Guard coordinators are on at any one time as well as an aeronautical and an assistant. At any one time in the ops room we have four to five people on duty with the ability to augment and bring in additional staff should we have a larger scale SAR case or multiple SAR cases. Quite often during a summer weekend it is very possible to have many ongoing SAR cases.

Senator Munson: Are you satisfied with this number?

Maj. Stevens: This number works. Yes, sir.

Senator Munson: This is a different kind of question that I wasn't thinking of asking. I want to know what the protocol is when the Canadian Armed Forces or the Coast Guard are out there doing a very serious operation. You are trying to find somebody out there and you come across boats coming into inlets no matter where it is in Atlantic Canada. They are drug smuggling. They are doing what they are doing which is against the law and they shouldn't be there.

What is the protocol? What happens with the coordination with the Coast Guard and with the RCMP? Would you intervene or would you wait for others to your place?

Mr. Spurrell: Your colleagues visited with the admiral early this week and he spoke for a few moments about one of the tools that we have, the marine security operation centres. They are fusion centres where a number of departments like National Defence, the RCMP, the Coast Guard, fisheries enforcement and Transport Canada are all together helping to maintain a really good understanding of marine domain awareness.

Very seldom would the men and women of the Coast Guard trip over that type of asset. Normally what would happen is that they would be contacted by an enforcement organization. They would look at working and responding together, whether it was CBSA, the RCMP or a provincial police agency, to interdict. That would be either us or the navy depending on which police agency.

We do not have at this point in time a constabulary or enforcement role with the Criminal Code. We have some powers and authorities under the Fisheries Act where our men and women are armed and work with Fisheries and Oceans to protect Canada's sovereignty in the 200-mile limit. That is the only situation where we would respond immediately.

Senator Munson: Would you like to have that role? Would you like to have a little extra power?

Mr. Spurrell: My focus right now, sir, is safety. Before somebody gives me anything else to do I would like a mandate and some resources.

Senator Munson: This is a collection of observations on a totally separate subject, but I noticed on the map that Halifax is responsible for a certain section of the Arctic. In 2011 the National Security and Defence Committee did a report on sovereignty. They made a few recommendations. I don't know if you can answer these questions but I will just throw them out there very quickly.

The report at that time recommended that in order to reduce search and rescue response times the government position its assets in a central location in the North. Obviously that hasn't happened. I would like to get your views on that. That was five years ago and nothing has happened there.

Then it dealt with equipping the rangers with small boats for travelling in places in the Northwest Passage as the ice disappears. At that time five years ago they recommended that DND should consider the advisability of expanding the ranger's role. They talked about a new icebreaker and I should know the answer to this.

They are three separate questions but they deal with the role of Halifax in coordinating search and rescue efforts.

Mr. Spurrell: I will speak to the Coast Guard component and where we are going, and on the aircraft I will defer to the major.

Prior to holding my present position for a number of years I was assistant commissioner responsible for the Great Lakes and the Arctic, the central and Arctic region. I have some experience with Arctic operations in addition to spending a few years in the Arctic as a sailor.

On the deployment of resources the Canadian Coast Guard sends six to seven icebreakers to the Arctic every season. They don't all go at the same time. They don't all come back at the same time. They are up there for different programs but we have a presence in the Arctic. The Arctic is very vast and six or seven icebreakers depending on the season are not a massive presence.

I note that the navy is now in the process of building their vessels to get into the Arctic. I forget the acronym for the vessel but the first one is actually being constructed in the yard over here.

We have a presence in the Arctic albeit seasonal. We are working with our good friends in the Coast Guard Auxiliary to look at expanding its presence in the Arctic. There is some Coast Guard Auxiliary presence in the Western Arctic but we are working very hard to engage coastal communities and Arctic communities to develop enhanced SAR capability in the North.

The only thing I would say before I hand it over to the major on the positioning of air assets is that yes, we are still in the process of acquiring a new Arctic icebreaker to replace the Louis S. St.-Laurent. Unfortunately I don't have an update on when it is going to be launched. It has been deferred a few years because of the requirement to build the joint support ships for the navy. It has been bumped back a few years but unfortunately I can't give you the timetable. We can get back to you if you would like the timetable on the delivery of the breaker.

Maj. Stevens: When we look at the statistics regarding the SAR cases that take place north of 55º latitude the distress level cases are 5 per cent. With regard to the placement of resources Mr. Spurrell referred to increasing the Coast Guard Auxiliary. The Canadian Armed Forces is al looking at initiatives like CASARA, our Civilian Air Search and Rescue Association volunteers, increasing their capacity in the North.

For example, in Norman Wells and Pond Inlet new CASARA teams have been formed in those locations. Also throughout the North there are a large number of exercises. This year the national SAREX was held in Yellowknife. While the aircraft were up there, there were cases that required response and aircraft were taken from the exercise and dispatched to assist with hunters that turned up safe and sound. Vigilant Shield also just happened up North as well as Op Nanook.

In addition to the primary SAR assets there is a large complement of secondary SAR assets both on the air and marine sides. When we track the number of vessels that went through the Northwest Passage this summer we know that search and rescue is not just the response of a primary Canadian Armed Forces aircraft or a primary Coast Guard vessel. It is reaching out to all the agencies, the vessels and the people. Quite often it is a vessel of opportunity that reaches the sailor or the mariner in distress first. It is all about who we can utilize that can save that person's life.

Senator Munson: I have just an observation because part of the mandate you talked about was the humanitarian role in search and rescue. I guess you are saying the day will never come when we would have stronger assets in a place like Goose Bay or some other spot.

We have been asking these questions for some time. I know governments and I know it is money, but all lives matter whether or not it is a distress call for less than 5 per cent. I just thought I would throw that out on the table. I am not disagreeing with some of your arguments and statements, but it seems to be an ongoing discussion. At the end of the day they start divvying up the money for the assets and for the good work that you folks do. Sometimes I think the indigenous people are forgotten in this equation.

Mr. Vardy: We realize the need. Like you say everyone is important. At the National Search and Rescue Secretariat we formed several years back what was called the northern SAR roundtable where we talked with people in the Arctic about their needs and tried to work through solutions on how we could best address these needs.

As Assistant Commissioner Spurrell mentioned there is a large investment in expanding the Coast Guard Auxiliary right now. Up to a few years ago we had the Coast Guard Auxiliary in nine communities in the Arctic with only 100 members. That is continually developing through visiting the different hamlets and engaging with the communities and industry to improve our search and rescue efforts in the North.

Maj. Stevens: Senator, I certainly would like to reassure you that the indigenous people are not forgotten. This morning we had a search and rescue case off Hopedale, Labrador. If a case comes up toward the North or the Arctic, our Cormorant helicopter is there today in that area. With regard to the positioning they are moving about the area on a regular basis responding to a variety of cases and conducting training.

Earlier this spring we had a case up off Cape Dorset for a kayaker who was missing. Earlier this spring on March 29 two snowmobilers were missing. It was an MLA and his son. We sent a Cormorant and a Hercules north with multiple crews. It was a combination of efforts between our region and Trenton's region to assist.

We have a very close relationship with the EMO in Nunavut and our partners up there. We visit quite regularly to establish training, to assist them with their needs and to gather information because the amount of information that the indigenous people and the rangers bring to us is very valuable.

On those searches the local members of the community, the hunters, we bring them up in the aircraft. They assist us with where the patterns and the trails are. That is something we are not familiar with. We certainly utilize their expertise and their knowledge to help us out with a rescue.

If I may just expand for one minute, on that date of March 29 two of our aircraft and three of our crews, because we need more crews when we are operating in the North, were looking for the MLA, assisting the territory with trying to locate him.

On that same day we had an aircraft crash on Îles-de-la-Madeleine with what we were initially told was seven people. For us our air crafter up in the North and the coordinators that work in my op centre were absolutely fantastic. They managed to get two Cormorants heading toward Îles-de-la-Madeleine to respond to that plane crash. We didn't know how many people were on board. We didn't know the status of the people on board. We had a training Cormorant that was going to Summerside for a search and rescue exercise that immediately found two search and rescue SAR techs. That is how passionate the people are about saving a life.

We had two helicopters going and at the same time a call came into the Rescue Centre from Forteau, Labrador, from Eastern Health asking for assistance from the Province of Newfoundland for a patient that required a higher level of care and needed to move to a hospital on mainland Newfoundland.

In that day we were able to accomplish all tasks from an aeronautical side and assist a province and a territory and provide the response for an aeronautical case.

Senator Enverga: Once again I would like to thank everybody for your hospitality. We really enjoyed it and actually learned a lot of things.

Whenever we go to places like we did yesterday and maybe today too we ask people what they need. Do you need more equipment or more supplies? Most of them keep telling us that they need more people, people with the right mental and physical skills. Somehow there is a quick turnover of experienced people at the same time.

Do we have a plan for that? Is that really a problem for our organizations?

Mr. Spurrell: Yes, sir, I agree wholeheartedly. Without people, without human resources, the system doesn't function. The Coast Guard has been challenged over the last number of years to hire and train the number of people with the right set of skills required for us to deliver the program. We have had some success in the last couple of years.

In my region we have hired in excess of 300 full-time individuals in the Atlantic region. We have taken advantage of the downturn in the economy, to be blunt. People are more interested in coming to work now for us. It is a challenge. We could always use more time, more people and more money to train and to provide a better level of service. It is a concern. I have to agree with you on that one. I will defer that to the major for DND.

Maj. Stevens: Within the Canadian Armed Forces I know there are ongoing recruiting initiatives. However that is outside of my scope. Within the search and rescue technician trade a number of initiatives are currently underway to increase and promote recruiting, but I would have to defer the question to CMP, chief of military personnel, to expand on the recruiting because that is outside of my day-to-day operations.

Senator Enverga: Have we thought about maybe raising their pay scale especially for CCG? Has it been thought about? Are there any requests for that so that all those experienced people stay?

Mr. Spurrell: Actually we are in another area that I can't really add a lot of information on. We are in collective bargaining right now so there is not much I can say. The unions representing our officers and crews are in collective bargaining with Treasury Board concerning salaries so there is not much I can really say on that.

Senator McInnis: Money will solve a lot of problems, Mr. Spurrell. Let me just refer to international conventions for it has been said that Canada's search and rescue emanated out of three conventions: The International Convention for Safety of Life at Sea, the International Convention on Maritime Search and Rescue, and the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea. Apparently that is where it was shaped. Some of those conventions go back 40 or 45 years.

Have we in Canada been current with other nation signators to those conventions? You can answer that if you have some comments.

Mr. Spurrell: The only other point I would say is another driving factor would be major incidents. Once there is a big incident in Canada that sometimes changes the system in addition to international conventions. The Ocean Ranger would be a big driver for search and rescue in Canada, for example.

Actually, Harvey, you sit on an international working group so would you like to answer that one?

Mr. Vardy: I believe you asked if we were keeping current. More than that, we are still well respected internationally. Presently at the International Maritime Organization and the International Civil Aviation Organization there is a process to review the homing signal on EPIRB, Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon. This is the 121,5 homer to pinpoint where the beacon is. The thought now is to change the frequency rate on the outgoing bursts.

Canada is one of the countries leading the testing of these beacons. Most recently we tested them at our international search and rescue exercise in Passamaquoddy Bay where we had resources from the U.S. Coast Guard, the Canadian Coast Guard and the Canadian Air Force homing the various frequencies. We will take the results back to IMO and ICAO to show the concerns that Canada has with changing the frequency rates.

We are very much well respected in the international community for our initiative to continue to learn from others and advance our search and rescue theories.

Senator McInnis: The conventions dealt with certain equipment that must be on vessels, the construction of the vessel and so on. Many things have changed with high tech and so on. Are we current in that respect?

Mr. Spurrell: There are a number of those, sir, and unfortunately some of my colleagues in Ottawa might be better placed. On the carriage requirements for merchant ships Transport Canada is the lead at IMO for us on that. We have always worked with them on that. Many of the regulations are internal and would sit with Transport Canada. If they are considering new regulations they will consult with us, but I really can't speak to carriage requirements.

Senator McInnis: In 1999 Canada, the United States and United Kingdom signed a tripartite agreement. Do we update them?

Mr. Spurrell: I am sorry, sir. My focus is more on regional operations and that wouldn't be one that I would be able to help you on.

Senator McInnis: Do we have agreements with various states that share our border?

Mr. Spurrell: On the agreements with the adjacent states we meet regularly with the U.S. Coast Guard. We exercise regularly boat and search and rescue and environmental response. We have regularly scheduled exercises so we can kick the tires on the agreements to make sure things are working.

Senator McInnis: It is not just the agreements. What I am getting at is that we are current in terms of search and rescue.

Mr. Spurrell: That is my belief. I haven't identified an area where we are short at all. I will turn to DND to see if they have any comments.

Maj. Stevens: At the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre we work with our international partners on a regular basis. We have a MOU with Boston and we are just in the process right now of finalizing one with Portugal. We participate in numerous exercises with those countries and with the U.S. In Alaska, we had members from JRCC Halifax participating in an exercise prior to Crystal Serenity beginning its voyage eastbound through the Northwest Passage.

Those sub MOUs go into a bit more detail and enhance our training and our collaboration. That is key to ensuring standardization. For each of the exercises we participate in we are exchanging information regarding our management systems, what tools and resources other countries are using that we can use and vice versa. We share that information on a regular basis. We have done it for the past two years with Portugal and since I have been at the rescue centre and with Boston.

At the national SAREX in Yellowknife I conducted a brief with the Chileans, the Mexicans, and the Norwegians. I extracted information from them with regard to their technologies and where they are with regard to UAVs and various pieces of equipment. As we emerge internationally with the amount of technology available to us ultimately we can reduce the search and effect the rescue. That is the sharing and collaboration.

I believe in we signed the Agreement on Cooperation on Aeronautical and Maritime Search and Rescue in the Arctic. That is a recent five-year agreement that Canada is a part of.

Senator McInnis: I am asking the question because it should be on the record with respect to our study. We don't want people to coming back to us and asking questions such as: "Are they current with other countries?'' It is now on the record. It is not a criticism. It is to draw out the information.

We have a vast area in Canada for search and rescue and you elaborated on that yesterday. We also discussed the fact that there are large passenger ships worldwide now and more frequent passenger aircraft on daily transoceanic flights. Is our search and rescue team prepared to mount an effective response to an offshore mass rescue operation?

Mr. Spurrell: I will turn part of it over to Harvey because he might want to touch on the major exercise piece. As the major just pointed out we had the Crystal Serenity in the Arctic. It involved a lot of planning and a lot of exercising. A number of years ago the region did a very large practical exercise with the ferries back and forth between Nova Scotia and Newfoundland.

Clearly moving that many people is always a challenge. If you have a very large cruise ship, depending on the environmental conditions and the nature of the emergency it would be very challenging. There is no doubt about that, but it is one of the things that we plan and exercise for. Do you want to touch on the major exercise piece?

Mr. Vardy: Yes. It boils down to training and exercising it. Nationally I work with my colleagues in British Columbia and Central and Arctic. We are planning a very large, major exercise in the Strait of Juan de Fuca for next year where multiple federal, provincial and municipal agencies will work together. That is where we get to learn the capacity and capability of all our search and rescue partners.

Last year we worked with District 1 in Boston to carry out a mass casualty exercise with Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines. In May and June of this year we are planning another tabletop exercise at the Coast Guard College with industry and both the Canadian and U.S. coast guards.

It is a continually evolving project just to keep up with the technologies. One of the challenges with the mass rescue exercise is casualty tracking. We have been working with the government in Saint Pierre and Miquelon on advancing our system. They have developed a more electronic means for casualty tracking that is very interesting. We are working and sharing our tools with them and they are sharing their tools with us. It is coming together. We are building a mass casualty tracking system that will benefit both countries.

Senator McInnis: I have a parochial question. Just off Halifax Harbour around Herring Cove you deployed a SmartAtlantic buoy that is apparently very effective for boater safety and so on. Can you just elaborate on what that is and if Halifax is the only place that has such a buoy?

Mr. Spurrell: The smart buoy technology, e-navigation, is clearly an area where as technology evolves we can provide the mariner with more information in a timely manner. Those buoys would give things such as actual wave height, actual wind direction and temperature on scene rather than looking around the headland trying to guess what it would be like.

Those buoys are placed in a number of spots across the country. We have them in Placentia Bay, the Bay of Fundy and a number of places on the East Coast. When one goes out we receive calls pretty quickly because people find those very practical. They can just go online to check a lot of information they would like to have before they go to sea. It is something that people are asking more for.

Senator McInnis: Are they costly?

Mr. Spurrell: Often we partner with a number of different users because the infrastructure of the buoy itself is something that we have the ability to place and maintain. We have a lot of buoys in our inventory but the technology is getting better and that stuff is getting smaller. As we move forward it becomes less and less complicated to have that type of technology.

We have a big initiative that is not SAR related. It is what they call E-Nav or electronic navigation. A lot of users in the industry are looking for a lot. The maritime industry wants to keep up with others, to be able to go online to get that information in a real time rather than looking at forecasts or estimates.

Senator Poirier: In one of our meetings in Ottawa recently a representative from the Transportation Safety Board informed the committee that as a result of a recent restructuring the MCTS, the Maritime Communication and Traffic Services centres, do not always notify the board in a timely manner when a marine accident occurs. They say the delays in notification of a marine occurrence impair the board's ability to deploy to a site quickly to undertake its investigative work.

Can you explain why the MCTS centres would no longer notify or would you comment on that operation?

Mr. Spurrell: There was a bit of a disagreement between the two agencies. We are adamant that we inform them electronically of an incident but we are not triaging or trying to determine what cases they are more interested in and calling them directly. If there was a major significant case the MCTS officer or the supervisor on shift would take the initiative and give them a call.

Right now we are reaching out to them electronically on those incidents. They are not getting that personal service that they were used to in the past.

Senator Poirier: Over the last couple of days we have heard a lot about the great work that you guys do. We have heard about some of the challenges that are out there. In our discussions today we mentioned a few of the concerns that some people working there have with the new vessels that are coming.

We have heard about the manpower challenges that some are saying to us. We have heard about linguistic challenges and difficulty to recruit and compete in the world with not enough francophone people to be the bilingual service that we need to provide. We have heard about money issues and pay. We have heard about different things.

Is there anything else out there that maybe you would like to share with us as a concern or something that you would like to see improved that you think possibly we have not heard yet in the last couple of days from all the different people that we have met?

Mr. Spurrell: Through a Coast Guard lens the fact that my people have strong opinions or are passionate about search and rescue is not the least bit surprising to me. I mean it is a program that our men and women are fully engaged in and are always looking for ways to do it better. Obviously I am not going to talk about pay.

Senator Poirier: No, I understand that.

Mr. Spurrell: I don't even want to mention the word. Clearly an area where there is some room for improvement is prevention. There was a time that boating safety was within the Coast Guard. It is with Transport Canada now but like policing and the fire service I don't have to say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

This is an area where we could provide a better service to Canadians if we had some more time and resources to work on prevention. As I said in my opening comments we look forward to the day when we don't have to answer the call.

Senator Poirier: That is right.

Maj. Stevens: I have to echo Mr. Spurrell's sentiments. That is exactly what came to my mind regarding awareness among the public of what we actually do and what they can do to contribute. Ultimately it comes down to the person having the equipment and the tools they need to alert if they find themselves in that situation. That was the first thing that popped into my mind.

As well with evolving technology it is important that we keep abreast. The Canadian Armed Forces is continuing to look at and explore options in regard to the UAVs, RADARSAT and drones available to us that we can use to effect the rescue more efficiently.

Senator Stewart Olsen: Senator Munson touched on the North which is of particular concern. Based on your stories today there seem to be a lot of search and rescue operations happening. Have you contemplated at all an actual base where there would be a helicopter, there would be a plane and there would be staffing crews?

Mr. Spurrell: From a Coast Guard standpoint our presence in the North is expeditionary. We take our ships up. We do have presence in Iqaluit. We have an MCTS centre there. Its season is linked to the navigation season. The possibility of extending that is one that we are looking into as the Arctic opens up and the seasons extend.

At this time from a Coast Guard standpoint we have reduced our footprint over the years. We have fewer facilities rather than more. The reality was a program review in the 1990s and the size of the fleet that we had the support. I can't speak to any evolving in the North but I will turn to the DND major.

Maj. Stevens: There is currently a squadron of military Twin Otters in Yellowknife. Those aircraft can be called upon as a secondary SAR resource, but as to whether or not the Canadian Armed Forces explored that option that would be outside of me to comment on. I am not privy to that information.

As mentioned earlier an abundance of resources operate in the North should we need them. We track those through our headquarters in Winnipeg and with our volunteers, the Coast Guard Auxiliary and the CASARA members. There is an increase in the presence of resources in the North that can respond to the cases.

I have the numbers. Last year in 2015 there were 8 Arctic aeronautical cases and 15 marine cases. That is all cases. That includes a false alert and it includes a distress. That is over the course of an entire year.

There are quite a few additional resources in the North, secondary vessels and aircraft that we could call upon. We keep abreast of the activity that is taking place in the North.

Senator Stewart Olsen: I understand there is an imperative on the sea and in the North. If you are there, if you are private or if you are a business then you are going to immediately offer help. I would suggest that we have to look at our forces and the services we provide from a public standpoint because those resources may not always be there.

Senator Hubley: I would like to touch briefly on equipment. This morning we had the pleasure of seeing both the Hercules and the Cormorant in action. The Hercules is a warhorse when it comes to first response search and rescue. It has a huge capacity. It is reliable. It has been an important part of the equipment needed to do the work in the Halifax region.

I understand there is a replacement that perhaps won't be as costly as replacing a Hercules, but it doesn't have the capacity of distance. Given the Halifax region where we go out so far into the Atlantic it seems to me it would be wise to have at least a carrier with the capacity of the Hercules in place. I am just wondering what your thoughts on that would be.

I think Mr. Spurrell was mentioning the Bell 429, a replacement for the Cormorant. Will that have the same capacity, et cetera as the Cormorant?

Mr. Spurrell: Before my colleague answers the longer question, the two aircraft for the Coast Guard are used to support the full suite of services. They are not dedicated search and rescue aircraft. In both cases I am pleased to say that we have purchased a larger more capable aircraft. The Bell 429 has replaced primarily the Eurocopter 105 and its eighties technology. It is larger and more robust. It is faster. It has farther range and all those nice things. Again, I am not a helicopter pilot.

We are replacing the Bell 212 with the 412, a more capable heavier lift, longer range aircraft. On the small question around the Coast Guard aircraft component we are quite comfortable saying that we have enhanced the capability of our fleet. I will defer the rest to my colleague.

Maj. Stevens: The Department of National Defence is continuing to pursue the new fixed wing aircraft which will replace the Buffalo aircraft, as well as the Hercules C-130H. Those aircraft are from the 1960s and they are aging.

It is expected that the contract is supposed to be awarded either late 2016 or early 2017. I am not in a position to comment on which aircraft, but I do know that an extensive study and research with regard to the capabilities have taken place since my time back in Comox operating on the twin engine Buffalo aircraft. However I am not in a position to comment on where that project sits right now.

Senator Hubley: I heard a comment this morning that I would like to share. The replacement aircraft will have certain capabilities that will resemble the Cormorant, but if it has to travel to and back from the site it has less time to do the searching while it is there. It would cut down on the search time which for me would be a serious situation if people were waiting to be rescued. That is my only comment.

Maj. Stevens: Yes, the search component is definitely very critical. I can't comment. But we can utilize tools to assist with the search, increase the range and use an offshore oil platform. I know that is not a viable option for fixed wing but certainly for a rotary.

With the use of tools such as RADARSAT, we are now progressing to try and locate a target using imagery so that we can direct our resource exactly to the location.

Senator Enverga: This is more a question related to Senator Hubley's question. The admiral was telling us that we have the best Coast Guard anywhere in the world, something like that. I believe so if you say so.

You also mentioned in your speech, major, that the Cormorant helicopter crew was able to use ultra platforms. That is the key word there. Have you ever thought of having equipment with an air-to-air refuelling capability to extend the register or something like that? Is there something like that in your mind or in the planning stage?

Maj. Stevens: I believe that may be a capability, sir, that is being explored but I am not familiar with it. That is beyond my scope. I am not sure if I was clear on the last question. It is the Hercules, the fixed wing aircraft, that is being replaced. The helicopters are just approaching their mid-life upgrade.

You are referring to air-to-air refuelling. That is well outside of my scope but right now we are using a number of platforms on the East Coast. The factor with those, though, is that the weather has to be suitable. Fog can often be a challenge but when weather permits the aircraft are able to extend their range offshore.

Senator Enverga: Yes, the biggest concern is what happens if there is no offshore facility over there. What is will happen to the people in distress? Are we able to support them the way they expect us to do?

Maj. Stevens: Our region here in Halifax extends 1,000 miles from St. John's, mid-Atlantic at 30º latitude, which is well beyond a range of a helicopter.

The resources we use first are looking for mariners. We would track the vessels to see if there is a vessel within range that can assist if it is a maritime incident and our fixed wing aircraft have a recovery mechanism if we should deploy our search and rescues technicians.

We quite often work with our search and rescue partners from abroad, Portugal and Falmouth, U.K. We work with those countries to dispatch aircraft to the scene. They have a number of aircraft in Portugal. They have the Orion and the CASA, both fixed wing aircraft that we can call upon based on the location of their island and the extensive range of our maritime area.

Senator Enverga: Do you think it is ideal for us to have that capability?

Maj. Stevens: It is something outside of my scope to comment on, sir.

Senator Enverga: I have a quick question about staffing. We have been to one of the Coast Guard stations there. Somehow most of them are 20 years on the job or 30 years maybe. My concern is: Will there be continuity? You have to know the locality and the local knowledge there. Do we have anything that we are doing to support them and teach them?

Mr. Spurrell: One of the things we have done with crewing in all of our fleet is that we have moved into a pooling system not just in the lifeboat fleet. It is not exclusively but we are getting there to where an individual officer or a ship crew member is assigned a level and then moved around a fleet. In that way they don't end up in one station for a long period of time focused on one job.

That level of local knowledge and experience is a strength and a weakness. If you are really good at one job in one place and then we need you somewhere else, sometimes that is not a good thing. We are looking at ways to move our ship crews and our ship officers around.

Demographics are a challenge and the men and women of the Coast Guard are public servants. If they want to stay at a certain level and don't want to compete for advancement they are allowed to stay in that level for the bulk of their career. It is one of the things we have to work on, sir.

The Chair: Major Stevens, the government of the day in May 2012 closed the Marine Rescue Centre in Kitsilano, British Columbia, and the Maritime Rescue Sub-Centre in St. John's. I know that since they have reopened the Kitsilano operation. There are ongoing discussions in relation to what is going to happen in St. John's. There is a commitment to reopen.

Yesterday we saw some numbers regarding the 2,204 cases at the JRCC so far this year in 2016, which you touched on in your remarks. If my memory serves me correctly it was a little over 900 for the St. John's, Newfoundland, area. I know it is not for you to make that decision. It has been four years now. I know it is a concern for people in my province. That is for sure. I am just wondering about any comment in relation to the amount of activity and calls that seem to be still coming in from Newfoundland and Labrador. As you know it is an island. From what I understand it seems to me there is a pushback in the upper echelons of different departments in relation to the reopening of that sub centre.

I am somewhat concerned that we have a commitment but it seems that the logistics of getting that to reality are not there. In regard to response times and the amount of calls that we have had there seems to be a lot of major activity there.

Maj. Stevens: I will just make an initial comment and then I will turn it over to my Coast Guard colleagues who are better positioned to speak to the sub-centre in St. John's.

I have been at JRCC Halifax as the officer in charge since 2014. I have never operated at JRCC while MRSC St. John's was open. With the high volume of calls I see throughout the region and not just specific to one area, the staff on duty is extremely familiar with the area and well versed in the climate and challenges that we face.

As I mentioned earlier, on September 7 we had a case off Cape Spear where a fishing vessel was reported overdue mid-afternoon. The staff at the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre was able to effectively dispatch a number of resources, including the Coast Guard Auxiliary, Coast Guard vessels, the Cormorant helicopter and the Hercules aircraft. We even used Provincial Airlines to effect the search.

The software management system that we have at the rescue centre — it was implemented in 2001 and is going through a renewal process to update the tools and technology — is able to provide information to us regarding locations and is extremely valuable. I will turn it over to the Coast Guard to address.

Mr. Spurrell: Clearly the reopening of MRSC was in the mandate letter for the minister. We have been asked to provide advice, information and options to the minister, which we have done. I expect an announcement of that type would be coming from the minister and not from some officials. I guess we will have to wait to see what the response is on that one.

The Chair: We have the minister coming before us in short order so maybe we will ask him. I thank you for your time here and echo the comments of my colleagues. In the last couple of days we have had the opportunity to travel to many of your operations and have some candid conversations. It has been a great learning experience for all of us. Certainly the hospitality has been second to none.

I live in a small rural community in Placentia Bay, home of the same bay as Major Stevens by the way. To me a lot of people out there may not be aware of all the available services and opportunities for people to be involved and become part of either the Armed Forces or the Coast Guard.

Yesterday we visited the Coast Guard College. It is second to none. It is very impressive. We have all chatted about it since and the opportunities for many young people to be involved. When we talk about promotion we will be having a serious look at recruitment in our report and some ways of assisting with that because we feel it is needed and we can help. Once again thank you for your time here today. I look forward to seeing you again on. Take care.

We are pleased to welcome our next three guests. I would ask them to introduce themselves, please.

Brian LeBlanc, Canadian Coast Guard, Executive Director, Canadian Coast Guard College: Good afternoon. My name is Brian LeBlanc, Executive Director of the Canadian Coast Guard College in Sydney, Nova Scotia.

Tom Gunn, Principal, Nautical Institute, Nova Scotia Community College: Good afternoon. I am Tom Gunn, Principal of the Nova Scotia Community College Strait Area Campus and The Nautical Institute.

Vivek Saxena, Academic Chair, Nautical Institute, Nova Scotia Community College: Good afternoon. My name is Vivek Saxena. I am the Academic Chair of The Nautical Institute at NSCC in Port Hawkesbury.

The Chair: Thank you for taking the time to join us this afternoon. On behalf of the committee I thank Mr. LeBlanc for our visit to the Canadian Coast Guard College yesterday. As I said earlier it was a great learning experience and I am sure we will have some questions that came from our visit.

I will give you the opportunity to present your opening remarks and then we will go to our senators for questions. The floor is yours.

Mr. LeBlanc: Mr. Chair and honourable senators. I am honoured to appear here before this committee this afternoon. I mentioned my name is Brian LeBlanc. I cover most provinces that people have come from. I am half Newfoundlander and half Cape Bretoner who was born in New Brunswick, married a woman from Ontario, and had two kids that were born in St. John's before we moved back to Cape Breton. The only province I haven't covered is P.E.I. but I spent my summers there, though.

I started my career at the college in 1983 and after 26 years I returned in 2012. I am extremely passionate about search and rescue not only as an officer cadet when I was at the college but as a ship officer. I did a stint as a superintendent in the search and rescue program in headquarters and of course in my current position as Executive Director of the college. My role is to keep people safe and to help save lives through training.

I believe you have heard this before but I would like to highlight the active role the Coast Guard plays in SAR, search and rescue. On an average day we save 15 lives, we assist 52 people in search and rescue, and we manage over 1,200 vessel traffic movements. Marine safety is the priority for the Coast Guard and therefore the priority of the college.

To look at some of the impacts of our training I would like to walk you through a classic scenario of a major SAR case. This could happen anywhere in Canada north, south, east or west or in the Great Lakes. Late in the evening during a typical fall wind storm a fishing boat was returning to port when it experienced mechanical difficulties let's say about 50 miles off the coast. Their engine became disabled and they started taking on water. That is where we usually say is when they started to sink.

The crew of four immediately donned their survival suits. They were well equipped. Luckily they understood one of the most important aspects of the search and rescue system is alerting. If no one knows you are in trouble the time before the response is initiated can be extensive. It can be days. In this case they made a distress call on their radio, a Mayday, which was received and acknowledged by a Marine Communications and Traffic Services centre. As you heard earlier its short form is MCTS. Of course the centre immediately contacted a Joint Rescue Coordination Centre or JRCC and provided details of the distress.

This brings me to the first of our training programs. The college trains the marine communications and traffic services officers in our centres across Canada. They are the eyes and ears of vessels operating on the water. They provide one of the first responses to vessels in distress as well as communicating with all vessels involved in the SAR. They help protect human lives. They help conserve the marine environment. When they are in a traffic zone they help manage efficient ship movements to avoid collisions and the potential impacts of that.

The Coast Guard College is the only institution in Canada offering MCTS officer training. It is a 25-week program that consists of mixed theory and practical simulation classes. We visited the simulator which actually had students going through a scenario yesterday. After the college program students will do three to six months of on-the-job training at a centre. Then they will be certified as an MCTS officer and be a full-blown officer in the Canadian Coast Guard.

Continuing with the scenario, the maritime search and rescue coordinator tasks a number of resources to respond to the incident including a Coast Guard ship. They also task some Coast Guard Auxiliary vessels and a number of commercial ships and fishing vessels that happened to be in the area. I think you have already heard the term vessels of opportunity. The aeronautical SAR coordinator al tasked Canadian Forces aircraft to assist in the search.

Maritime and air search and rescue coordinators started a well-structured course of actions designed to bring the incident to a successful conclusion. How do they do this? All coordinators have taken the search mission coordinator course at the Coast Guard College. It is a three-week course. It is an essential prerequisite to working as a coordinator at a JRCC. Students will learn the fundamentals of prosecuting a SAR case, everything from incident awareness to mission conclusion. They spend considerable time learning the software made available to them to help manage the situation, log keeping, record keeping, contacts, names, you name it.

Alongside college SAR instructors with this course we also bring in guest instructors normally who are current SAR coordinators in the air and marine sides from the centres. There is no better person to help out in the training than someone who is extremely current in putting it to use. For the final week of training we bring in directing staff and feeders that are brought in to assist with making the simulations as accurate as possible.

Getting back to the simulation, it doesn't take long on the East Coast or West Coast or in the North. The winds can quickly grow. The situation in the boat deteriorated rapidly and they could no longer keep up with the water coming in. They advised the MCTS centre that they were abandoning their vessel for their life raft. Further communications would be lost. You just can't get the distance out of a portable radio, especially the kind that most fishing vessels carry.

Without contact they could very quickly become a very small object on a vast ocean but luckily the maritime SAR coordinator had a plan of action. This is where all maritime SAR coordinators are required to take the marine search planning course at the Coast Guard College. This is a 10-day training centred on planning searches taking into consideration the drift that will occur between the time the incident begins when hopefully they could communicate a position of their vessel to when the search is concluded.

You saw a brief demonstration yesterday at the college on the CANSARP. We love acronyms in the Coast Guard and military. It the Canadian search and rescue program that uses a planning tool. At the end of the course they are expected to be fully competent in its use. As you saw yesterday you can definitely narrow down the search area and hopefully bring the search to a successful conclusion.

This training is conducted by two college instructors with guest lecturers. These lecturers are not just on the technical side. We bring in Coast Guard management to talk about the role of the Coast Guard in search and rescue. We bring in DFO, Fisheries and Oceans legal, to talk about legal responsibilities of the vessels in SAR. We bring in Canadian Forces SAR technicians, the guys and gals that jump out of helicopters and planes, and Coast Guard rescue specialists.

Moving on to the scenario, in planning for life raft drift using all available training and tools the JRCC directed the task resources to a new search area via the centre. They communicate the information to the MCTS centre that in turn radios the Coast Guard ships and all other vessels in the area.

On the scene the Coast Guard ship is designated the on scene commander. This is kind of the local contact for the rescue centre. Especially if you have multiple resources trying to do different tasks you want to have an overall coordination. Where better to do it from but on the vessel itself? The on scene commander gives direction and coordinates the individual searches and will be the main principal contact with the rescue centre. If by chance they have radio communications in the life raft they will do the direct communications. If not it will be through the centre with the life raft.

The commanding officer and other senior officers on the ship hopefully will have taken the mobile facilities on scene commander course. This is 13 days of training where we prepare all our fleet officers in SAR planning, the navigators and the on scene resource management.

It is also required training for all maritime SAR coordinators so that they know when they are talking to the person on board the ship exactly what training they have and what are the abilities of the people on board the ship in regard to coordinating a local search.

The training is split between the classroom and our state-of-the-art navigation simulator. I always refer to it this way. It is delivered by two college instructors and one guest instructor from the Coast Guard fleet. It is somebody who is current in responding to search and rescue instances. They come from the small vessel lifeboat fleet that you have already visited or it could be from one of the larger offshore search and rescue vessels as well. In the simulator we practise not only searching and coordinating the incident but actually going alongside the raft and picking people up out of the water, hopefully with great success.

Moving on with the search, after an extensive coordinated search for the life raft using the air resource as well, I am happy to report all four crew members that abandoned their vessel were recovered safe and sound. That is the conclusion we all wish for. We know it is not always possible but everyone is very passionate about SAR and we all try to save as many people as we can.

Unfortunately we are not always able to do. If you look at the stats, in the majority of SAR instances that are not successful in a lot of cases there are delays in the alerting. It could be just about delays in finding the person if detailed information to plan the search is not given. In some cases no matter how many resources you have and where they are located, the incident cannot be brought to a successful conclusion. Afterward all resources were stood down and the rescued persons were returned to Halifax or any port by the Coast Guard ship.

One additional course that we mentioned yesterday is the assistant search planning course which consists of eight training days. It is mainly intended for the aeronautical coordinators who may be forward deployed to a local search headquarters that is closer to the incident than a JRCC. It is kind of like our on scene coordinator's course that we do onboard ships, but it is mainly geared to the air coordinators that can be forward deployed to an incident.

The participants and the instructors are mainly air coordinators although we do bring in a maritime coordinator. We also bring in ground based searchers. The northern rangers occasionally make up the class and the Canadian Forces is the major directing staff in this course.

I am hoping by introducing the training in relation to an incident kind of puts two and two together and gives you a basic idea of the impact of the training we provide at the college. The college is absolutely essential in helping to coordinate the response to SAR incidents with the training we give. As you know it can often be very difficult in a challenging and changing environment.

I would like to conclude by reiterating that Canada is a world leader in maritime search and rescue. The Coast Guard and Coast Guard College are critical parts of the search and rescue system. Without proper training more lives may be lost.

Thank you very much and I will be happy to take your questions following remarks from Mr. Gunn.

Mr. Gunn: Good afternoon. I would like to thank honourable senators for offering the college the opportunity to speak here today. My name is Tom Gunn, Principal of the Strait Area Campus of Nova Scotia Community College, usually referred to as NSCC. I am here with my colleague Vivek Saxena who is responsible for the NSCC Nautical Institute. The focus of The Nautical Institute is on the commercial marine sector.

The Nautical Institute situated in Port Hawkesbury was established in 1872 and is the only marine training institution of its kind in the Maritime provinces. The Nautical Institute became a part of NSCC in 1988 and is recognized as one of the leading marine training facilities in Canada.

All of our marine courses meet the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers or STCW. All courses and programs we deliver are approved by Transport Canada.

The college's nautical institute works closely with Transport Canada and with major employers in the marine industry to determine current and future needs. We design our programs based on that feedback and those needs.

Mr. Saxena: It is an important connection for the college to have key industry partners as both employers of our graduates and clients who come to us for customized training solutions to help meet their ongoing employee training and development needs.

Our Transport Canada approved marine training facility includes a freefall lifeboat, marine trades shops, an ocean wave tank, a fire training centre, state-of-the-art simulator for engine propulsion systems and marine navigation, and a radio communications lab. The college has in the institute a fast rescue, enclosed lifeboat training and a lifeboat simulator for demonstration purposes.

We are pleased that in your examination of the very important issue of maritime search and rescue you are including the programming of The Nautical Institute of the Nova Scotia Community College.

The college is proud to serve as an educational and training resource for those wishing to study and pursue a career in the marine sector as well as for those building on their skills in the area of marine safety.

Safety is one of the core values of the college. It is always our objective to ensure our training and education will prepare our students for their career at sea so they are able to fulfill their duties and assist if they find themselves in the midst of an emergency situation.

The identified goals within all of our safety training as stated in transport publication 4957 or TP 4957 are to help seafarers understand the hazards associated with the marine environment and with their vessels, to provide training and skills seafarers need to cope with such hazards to a level appropriate to their functions on board, to ensure that trainees who meet the minimum standards of competency in personal survival techniques and in survival craft and rescue boats other than fast rescue boats will be able to survive at sea in the event of ship abandonment and enhance their chances of rescue, and to ensure that trainees who meet the minimum standard of competency in fire prevention and firefighting will have knowledge of fire prevention and be competent to take appropriate measures for the safety of the passengers, the personnel and the ship, and to use fire-fighting appliances correctly.

Transport Canada regulates all training requirements for seafarers going out to sea. These requirements are developed in consultation with the marine industry and recognized institutes across Canada. Transport Canada meets annually with industry and recognized organizations at the Canadian Marine Advisory Council or CMAC.

All publicly funded recognized marine institutes collaborate together under the Canadian Association of Marine Training Institutions or CAMPTI to work with Transport Canada regarding marine personal training.

The IMO or International Maritime Organization regulates seafarer training occurring in international waters. This falls under the International Convention for Standards of Training Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers to which Canada is a signatory country. I am proud to say that the college was recently audited by IMO and the observations received about our institute, faculty and cadets were very positive.

What we have provided you with in our opening statement is a very high level overview of the operation of The Nautical Institute at NSCC. Tom and I would be happy to address any of the questions the committee might have. We would also be pleased to provide the committee with a tour of our facilities if you are travelling to Port Hawkesbury.

Mr. Gunn: As mentioned, the safety of our graduates of both our core programming and our customized training is integral to our instruction at the college. We will continue to ensure to equip our students with the best safety practices and training possible so that they are prepared for the exciting marine sector.

The Chair: I certainly look forward to hearing questions from our senators now. Thank you for the invite to visit your school. Time doesn't allow us on this trip but you never know when we may be back. We will certainly keep the invitation in our books for a later time.

Mr. Saxena: You are very close to the Coast Guard College so if are back to the Coast Guard College you can drop over here.

The Chair: Senator Hubley, our deputy chair, will begin our questions.

Senator Hubley: We perhaps will get to Port Hawkesbury the next time around. My question would be to either of you from the college. How many cadets would you take in on a yearly basis?

Mr. LeBlanc: We offer seven programs at The Nautical Institute and our capacity would be 24 in each program. Currently this year we have 93 full-time cadets at The Nautical Institute. There are 700 students on the campus but 93 are for The Nautical Institute. We would have over 1,000 industry people who would have come for part-time training in the past year at The Nautical Institute.

Senator Hubley: You are in close proximity to each other. Are you doing very different training in each of the facilities or are there similarities between the training you are providing?

Mr. Saxena: I can elaborate on that. Actually the Coast Guard College and what we are doing is very closely related. Both of the programs at the Coast Guard College and The Nautical Institute are accredited by Transport Canada. Our students get the same qualification at the end of the program as the Coast Guard College. Obviously the Coast Guard College grant Transport Canada qualification degrees to their students but in the end the same are granted by The Institute campus as well.

I can elaborate on some of the programs we are doing at The Nautical Institute. Tom mentioned seven programs. The seven programs include all aspects of commercial marine sectors. We have a 26 to 28 week training program for people who are entry level seamen. This is what we call decorating or engine routing. The students stay on campus for 15 weeks and then they go on board from 60 days to 90 days. There is on board training for all our programming. We have industry partners who take our cadets and provide this on board training.

Apart from this entry level program we have the officer cadet program. We do training on the engineering side for marine engineering and marine navigation officers. On these two sides we have the diploma program. On the navigation side it is a three-year diploma program. After three years the students who graduate from the navigation program can work on any commercial ship anywhere in Canada or anywhere in the world as a watchkeeping mate on board the ship.

On the engineering side we have a 2.5-year diploma program after which students basically get their diplomas from us and from Transport Canada a class 4 marine engineering licence. They can also go on any commercial vessel as a fourth class or watchkeeping engineer.

We provide a pathway for these students to get their additional credit for the next level of certification. For the navigation side that is the chief mate level of credit which is given in our advanced diploma program. For navigation we have a one-year advance diploma. Students who stay back for that additional one year get all the credits for chief mate. It is the same for the engineering side. The students who choose to stay with us for an additional 1.5 years will get the credits for the seconds and chiefs.

Senator Hubley: Do you have any specific courses or are they all related to search and rescue in some form?

Mr. Saxena: Actually in our cadet programs we don't have specific search and rescue courses. As Mr. LeBlanc mentioned, the Coast Guard College trains their people to go and do the search and rescue. From the perspective of prevention of search and rescue basically the students learn that aspect in our curriculum. If these students get into a search and rescue situation they need to work with Coast Guard vessels to do that search and rescue of those people on board.

There are components in most of our courses where they know how the search and rescue operation is conducted if there is one and obviously. They also learn how to avoid distress situations and stay safe while on board ship.

Mr. LeBlanc: I would just like to elaborate. Like my colleague mentioned both of our courses are STCW compliant and approved by Transport Canada. The main difference is that in the Coast Guard College we train officers not just to be mariners but to be Coast Guard officers in a four-year program. It is degree granting because we think it is important for our officers to have the extra qualification and certification. We also train in courses specific to Coast Guard ops. We use the safety management system in search and rescue, Ace navigation, buoy tending and icebreaking as best we can. When they graduate not only do they have a commercial certificate but they have a Coast Guard College diploma, which is Coast Guard related training in addition as well as the degree from Cape Breton University and the commercial certification.

The base program is the same. We have worked collaboratively in various forms with Transport Canada to make sure our programs are up to date and current.

Senator Hubley: The five or six men on the ground in a certain area of a certain port have their equipment. Who is directly responsible for the training and upgrading of that group of men? It would be the Coast Guard by the way.

Another issue I would like to clarify is that there are many policies and regulations and rules that they must follow. Is that reviewed on a regular basis to ensure that all these smaller areas have current information? If so, who is responsible for that group of people?

Mr. LeBlanc: You are probably referring to a lifeboat stations when you refer to the five or six people on the ground. Training comes in various forms. Some of it is done at the Coast Guard College for upgrading skills. Other is done at provincial schools for upgrading navigation and engineering skills, for instance. A lot of it though that is search and rescue specific is on the job training.

It is exercising. If they are not actively engaged in search and rescue they are expected to perform the exercise, to look at the equipment and to practise with the equipment as best as possible. The best way to be ready for an incident is to exercise and practise. There is a fairly elaborate regime that the stations go through to make sure equipment is up to date, working, and ready for the search and rescue.

In regard to the policies, the regs and the rules the Coast Guard has a very elaborate safety management system based on the IMO safety management system. Every station, every asset and every vessel operation we have is governed by a series of rules, regulations, policies, procedures and checklists to ensure that all activities are done safely and effectively. This is continuously monitored. It is internally audited at least twice a year and audited as required by an external auditing firm.

At the same time within the safety management system a change to the regulations by Transport is communicated and documented. Everybody is responsible to maintain the documentation and the safety management system up to date. It is very elaborate.

There is a safety and security group in headquarters that has the ultimate responsibility of reporting functionally and directly to the commissioner of the Coast Guard. Each region has a safety management branch responsible for vessel operations within the region.

It is a system that is very well coordinated, detailed and heavily documented to make sure everyone is current with policies, practices and procedures. The Coast Guard College is in the process of implementing the safety management system for our training vessels.

I should add that the Coast Guard overall for any shore based activity that involves any degree of potential injury, accident or danger will be falling under an overall safety management system that will combine the shore side with the ships. It is a pretty robust system that has been in place for some time now.

Senator McInnis: Mr. LeBlanc, we were there yesterday and spent the day. One could not come away from that institution without being impressed that the students are in good hands. We had an opportunity to see and meet with many of the instructors. My evidence would be the fact that the instructor could give brief instructions to my colleague, Senator Poirier, and she was able to navigate a vessel out of the Bedford Basin in fog, sleet, snow and circling ships. It was amazing.

The institution is an impressive one. The previous panel suggested that there was a shortage and that it was difficult to staff in certain areas. I am wondering why that would be. Are you not turning out sufficient numbers?

Going to the college at Port Hawkesbury as well, is there a deficiency in applications coming? Is the public aware? Is there not an interest in a career which would appear to me to be a wonderful career at sea? Surely there are people seeking that out. The training appears to be there. What is the problem?

As I listened to both of you and read a bit of background I couldn't help but thinking why you are not under one roof. I realize the funding stream comes from different areas but it strikes me that the commonality between both institutions is strong. For the life of me I couldn't understand why that would not be so.

If you could answer those questions first, I may have just a couple more questions.

Mr. Gunn: There is a shortage of mariners worldwide. NSCC and the province have really invested significantly in training for oceans in the past number of years. Certainly since Vivek has arrived we have ramped that up considerably.

We had Rick Mercer on site last year. He had been at the Coast Guard College. He brought a lot of attention to the work we do.

Senator Munson: Still looking for work, is he?

Mr. Gunn: Somehow in Nova Scotia and in the Maritimes young people have lost seeing the opportunities at sea as a career choice. We as a college are working hard to revive that. We are working with industry partners to create scholarships and bursaries. We are making a lot of progress to help students make that career choice. Every year we are seeing our numbers starting to grow again.

On the staffing side I am not sure if my colleagues will speak to that as much, but certainly it is hard to compete with the salaries in the marine industry. To get a master mariner or to get a chief engineer to come and teach at the Community College they have to come for the vocation or the admission of wanting to teach young people future career opportunities because we can't compete with the salaries being offered in the marine industry. Sometimes that presents challenges for us in regard to staffing. We have recently started hiring more people internationally because it is hard to attract Canadian mariners to come and to teach.

With regard to your third point about us being under one roof, certainly we have had a history of collaborating together and certainly NSCC would like to continue to increase that collaboration. We have very different mandates. I am sure Brian will speak to the mandate of the Coast Guard College, but it is a very different mandate from ours. Ours is much more focused on the commercial marine sector. We feel there is a lot of opportunity for growth in that area as I would imagine there is a lot of opportunity for growth in the Coast Guard as well.

Mr. LeBlanc: I agree there is a worldwide shortage of mariners especially on the engineering side. It was recognized from the very beginning when the Coast Guard was formed in 1962 that they needed a school to not necessarily train all the officers needed for the Coast Guard but to supplement the officers that came from the commercial side including the navy. We get officers that change over. It is not that easy but it does happen.

Part of the reason initially was the salaries that were offered in commercial versus Coast Guard. That cycle changes as the Canadian marine industry is vibrant with offshore oil. In the Beaufort Sea back in the 1980s they were recruiting right out of the Coast Guard College. They would offer to pay the salary that you would have to pay back if you didn't fulfill your commitment to go work in the Beaufort Sea and earn more money. It was not an easy situation to keep officers.

Coast Guard recognized earlier on that we needed to train our own officers. By offering the incentive of a free education, et cetera, you also get a commitment. Most people who end up working in the Coast Guard graduate and end up working their entire careers in the Coast Guard. Some will leave and some will come back but it definitely helps because of the worldwide shortage of officers.

It is recognized that to a lot of officers we just want to give the additional training that you can learn by coming up through the ranks or coming from a commercial school but it is a good mix of having officers from the commercial side as well as officers from the Coast Guard College. It is the same for instructors. A lot of our instructors are Coast Guard officers and a lot are from the commercial industry around the world, especially our francophone officers and instructors. It is good to have a mix.

When you talk about salary even within the Coast Guard College we compete. We are taking a ship officer, a commanding officer or chief engineer who is making a lot more money working on the ships and only works five months of the year. They work a month on and a month off and they take their annual leave. They work five months of the year and we are asking them to come to the Coast Guard College for potentially less money and potentially having to work year round. They get their six weeks off per year if they are advanced in their career. Most people do it because they want to give back by training people. When they were trained themselves they just want to give back to the Coast Guard. It definitely is a challenge.

Collaboration is extremely important. Across Canada we are a very small selection of schools. There is not a lot. We need more collaboration and partnership as we go forward to help counteract the overall worldwide shortage of mariners. Before coming in here we were talking about having to get together again very soon. We had people from the Coast Guard College visit the Strait Area Campus recently. You learn about new techniques, new technology and education. It is important to have greater collaboration. We will always have officers coming up through provincial schools as well as the Coast Guard College. I think we have a pretty good mix right now.

Senator McInnis: Are your two institutions it for Atlantic Canada? Is that correct? The college is nationwide. This is the only one in Canada as I understand it. That is correct, isn't it?

Mr. Gunn: There is an institute as part of Memorial University that offers nautical training in St. John's, Newfoundland. The Marine Institute would certainly be recognized as one of the leaders in Canada for marine training. I am sure Senator Manning would agree.

Holland College in Prince Edward Island offers some marine training but not the full scope. They don't offer that cadet training that we would offer, but they would offer the customized training for the commercial marine sector.

Senator Enverga: Thank you for your presentation and that you for letting us experience riding your fast boats. The Coast Guard is more trained to go to situations where nobody has gone before, like going to some distressed people in the sea or distressed people on the land, dropping from planes and using helicopters.

After reaching the distressed person have you ever thought about maybe integrating Coast Guard education with paramedic education? Is that part of the learning process that you are giving your trainees?

Mr. LeBlanc: Yes, Mr. Senator and Mr. Chair. On all our vessels there is a requirement for a minimum number of crew members, officers and crew on board to be trained as rescue specialists. Rescue specialists not only have the advanced first aid that is a requirement to go to sea but they are trained to the EMT level and sometimes even beyond.

They are not only trained in advanced first aid. They can give intravenous. They can do what is required to counteract hypothermia. They can give drugs on the advice of a physician. They are trained to at least the EMT standard if not beyond. We do that on our ships to look after our own officers and crew as well as anybody we rescue on a search and rescue case. It has been a very successful program. It is a good one to have on all Coast Guard ships.

Mr. Gunn: Perhaps I will ask Captain Vivek to respond.

Mr. Saxena: For the seafarers going out at sea it is mandatory training that all seafarers at the officer level to get the marine advanced first aid. That is what we call advanced first aid. They get a lot of marine medical training. All seafarers are supposed to complete the marine basic first aid as well. Seafarers are well trained. Ship captains have a special high level of captain's medicare training that they have to do.

Senator Enverga: I know you have been doing a lot of seafarer training for the Coast Guard. Is there training that you are giving to ordinary people, like the users of particular boats? Is that part of your mandate at your college?

Mr. Saxena: As Tom mentioned and I explained, at our college we train students who are coming to a core programming and going to into the commercial industry. We also have a stream of students who are coming and taking short certification courses. We get people from a fishing background who want to take domestic basic safety and survival craft courses.

One of the branches of NSCC is School of Fisheries out of Shelburne. They are on the road. They go out into the community and do a lot of safety training for fisher folks on site as well.

Mr. LeBlanc: On the Coast Guard side we concentrate on training Coast Guard personnel. However we do train small vessel craft and fast rescue craft for not just Coast Guard personnel but for Fisheries and Oceans personnel. The scientists that go out on the water all have to take a small vessel operator course.

We train the Canadian Forces, the RCMP and other government departments in small vessel operations. Mainly it is fast rescue craft: how to approach a vessel and how to pace a vessel. The Coast Guard offers training on everything up to the point where they jump on board with firearms. We do a lot of exercising with other government departments as well.

Senator Munson: I didn't get a chance to go on the Zodiac yesterday. I missed it. I was in the Senate. I would rather be on the road doing this, thank you. It is on the record, but that is fine.

I think Mr. Gunn talked about 1,000 industry people and Mr. Saxena talked about clients coming to you for customized training solutions to help meet their ongoing employee training and development needs. These people come from the private sector, I would assume. What would they pay? Do you have a scale for them to enrol in this particular program so that they can actually help fund the workings of your institute?

Mr. Gunn: They are coming from the commercial marine sector primarily. They are definitely paying and their companies would be paying as well.

We are one of the main trainers for Marine Atlantic which provides the connection to Newfoundland and Labrador. We are training a lot of the commercial marine sector. They are definitely coming and they are paying the cost of that training.

Senator Munson: Just to clarify, the institute itself is federally funded.

Mr. Gunn: No. The Nautical Institute would be provincially funded as part of the Nova Scotia Community College.

Senator Munson: Right. Can anybody come? Do you have any doubts about who you might train in these exercises or is it an open environment to corporations and/or governments? Do you get what I am getting at?

Mr. Gunn: Yes.

Mr. Saxena: Basically all our marine training that we do as customized training is a cost recovery. For that we are not really getting funded from the province. Basically for whatever training we do for these clients we have to cover the costs. You will see that our customized training costs for these clients are at the higher level because obviously these are cost recoveries for us.

Senator Munson: Are you prepared to say what the high level may be or is that client confidentiality? Is there a ratio to give a base of what it costs?

Mr. Saxena: We cover the cost of our courses. Basically it is based on that. If we cover the cost we live with that.

Mr. Gunn: It is on our public website but I don't have the numbers right off hand.

Senator Munson: I guess what I am trying to get at is: Are you self-sufficient in what you do with these private clients along with others who come to be part of the College of Cape Breton program to get a diploma? Are you cost efficient? I guess that is what I am trying to get at.

Mr. Gunn: We benefit because we are part of the Nova Scotia Community College which is in 17 locations in Nova Scotia. The Community College is funded through the Province of Nova Scotia. Again our full-time cadet core programming would be provincially funded. There would be a subsidy there and the students are paying tuition as well.

For industry people who would be coming for three days, five days or maybe two weeks for training, it is a short continuing education type of training. For those courses we need to meet our budget on that. It is cost recovery for that section.

On the cadet programs it would be provincially funded but on the industry customized piece it would be cost recovery, but the province through the college has been very generous with The Nautical Institute. They have been investing significantly in the growth of The Nautical Institute. Also at times we have received funding through ACOA or in the past through Enterprise Cape Breton which would be federal funding for capital equipment and so on.

Senator Munson: I have one other brief question on the Coast Guard. Are they guaranteed jobs in the Coast Guard when they get this diploma? In other words 90 per cent of the people who go to journalism schools all over the country don't work in journalism when they come. They find jobs somewhere else using those communication skills. Do you offer that avenue to 50 per cent, 60 per cent or 90 per cent of these students?

Mr. LeBlanc: Basically when you come to the Coast Guard College the day you start you are an employee of the Canadian Coast Guard. The program is 45 months or roughly four years. With that there is no tuition. You get your room and board, meals, accommodations, uniforms and everything you need during the four years. They get a living allowance. It is not very much. It is $350 to $450 a month. When they go to sea they get a bit more.

The commitment is that when they graduate from the Coast Guard College they have to pass the program first. If they graduate they become an officer in the Canadian Coast Guard and are required to give four years back to the Coast Guard.

If they happen to stay in the marine industry in government they can work on shore or in other government departments. They are not asked to repay anything back to the Coast Guard.

If by chance they leave and they go to the commercial sector they are asked to repay the allowance they received while in training. It can amount to up to $8,000 per year five or $5,000 or $6,000 normally. Their first year is not included because that is their year to decide if it is right for them and their first sea phase. Afterward there is a repayment commitment if they leave the Coast Guard. We are paying for their education and their stay but in turn we expect four years' commitment back in the Coast Guard.

Senator Munson: Thank you for that. It is important to know. The question had to deal with salaries before, but do you have enough teachers to do the teaching? Are the teachers getting older? Do you have enough expertise to keep on doing this or should there be a push to have more professors and others to teach these important tools in search and rescue?

Mr. LeBlanc: At the Coast Guard College certainly recruitment of staff instructors has been a challenge because we are trying to get the expertise from the Coast Guard fleet. They can come to the college, work more and not necessarily make any more. Most people that come like I mentioned before want to give back to the Coast Guard and teach.

We especially have a problem recruiting francophone instructors. All our programs are bilingual. They are offered in both English and French. We have a real problem recruiting French instructors in the Coast Guard College.

We have had some success recently going outside of Coast Guard into the private sector, but like I mentioned it is good to have a mix of Coast Guard officers and commercial officers to deliver the programs.

It has been a challenge for sure. We are trying to be innovative and come up with new ways of staffing. We are looking at perhaps long-term assignments where people can come from the fleet, teach for a few years, and then go back to the fleet. It is the same with our instructors at the Coast Guard College. If we can send them out to the fleet to get current and to get up to date with what we are doing in the fleet then they come back to the college. That can only benefit everyone as well. We have recruitment challenges on the instructor side as well but we are trying to work through those as best we can.

Senator Munson: That is good information for our report.

Senator Stewart Olsen: I just have brief questions for The Nautical Institute. You are publicly funded. Do you offer small courses for ordinary fishermen who might want to refresh their skills? Could they sign up for a two-day or three day course and just come down to the college and take it? Do you have that for them?

Mr. Saxena: As mentioned in our opening statements all the courses we offer are regulated by Transport Canada. There are regulations regarding these kinds of refresher courses. Recently Transport Canada came up with the requirement for the refresher courses but for the fishing people there is no such requirement for the refresher training.

Right now for the people who are going into international waters, the people who have STCW certificates, they will have to come to school to refresh their marine emergency duty safety training courses. Transport Canada is going through the transition phase of changing their marine personnel regulations. In 2017 they are expecting to have new marine personnel regulations which will require refresher safety training for all seafarers holding the SCTW qualification, but there is no such requirement for the fishing people right now to do that refresher training.

Senator Stewart Olsen: Should there be?

Mr. Saxena: Yes, definitely. I feel Transport Canada will look into that. We do communicate with Transport Canada. As mentioned in our opening statement there is a forum where we talk to Transport Canada. Basically all marine schools in Canada work under the CAMPTI forum. We talk to Transport Canada twice a year. We go to Ottawa and discuss new training opportunities and new training requirements especially for the fishing people as well. That is the time when we discuss these new requirements. They do listen. Actually there may be refreshing training requirement coming down the line.

Senator Stewart Olsen: Thank you for that. For your information I don't equate the two of you as the same at all. I don't think you should be under the same roof.

One of the things that the Canadian public and I are dealing with is the idea that the Coast Guard is much like the American Coast Guard that we see on television all the time. They are whipping around. They are saving everybody's lives. They are stopping drug smugglers and things like that. I am wondering if you are not being impeded a bit in your ability to put the primary safety of Canadians first by this kind of nebulous view of where exactly do you fit. That would put a search and rescue at a bit of a disadvantage.

Mr. LeBlanc: That is interesting, Madam Senator.

Senator Stewart Olsen: You can speculate.

Mr. LeBlanc: Yes, for sure. I mean Canada has a very well-known and very robust search and rescue system. Do we get lumped in with our counterparts to the south? Often we do. The biggest cause of that is some of the TV shows and the movies that we see.

Quite a few of the movies involve Canadian resources but we are definitely downplayed. We know where the audience is. It is an interesting concept.

Personally the Coast Guard is doing a great job, the way we are doing now. Would it be any different if we changed? I am not really sure. I know it has been talked about over the years. It has been a lot of topic of conversations in the mess halls and in the cafeterias. It is really hard to say how we would best fit or if the profile would be increased or not.

Senator Stewart Olsen: Do you have any statistics on your graduating students? How many go through and fulfill their four-year commitment?

Mr. LeBlanc: That is a question that came up recently as well because I mentioned yesterday, I believe it was, that with young people today they can have on average three distinct careers. They could go to sea for10 years as part of their career, become a farmer for the next 10, and do something completely different again for the next 10. Unlike my generation who were looking for a lifelong career it is a bit different. It is something we have talked about. We don't have really good stats but we are looking for them.

I believe the majority fulfill their four-year commitment. If they don't, we actively go after the cost recovery. Looking at the marine sector, if it is a boom period a lot of companies will pay that off it off in a second in order to get officers out of the Coast Guard. It can be difficult. It is something we are looking into and I don't have the answer right now unfortunately.

Senator Poirier: I had a number of questions but I am going to group them in two. The first one has to do with visiting the college yesterday. We got information that approximately 600 to 800 applicants can come in but you accept about 64 new students a year that can take part in the Coast Guard College training.

In the NSCC I know a lot of your students come from the industry themselves. I understood from your comments that some come in for a very short period of time training. Then others may come in as a student that is applying to get a three-year diploma.

Can you just share with me how many applicants you get in? How many can you accept? Of the ones that you accept and finish their three-year diploma what is the percentage or the rate of placement of students for jobs after?

Mr. Gunn: I don't have that information on hand right now but we can get that for you. NSCC has done a whole reinvigoration of The Nautical Institute. From these three-year and four-year diploma programs our first group is just graduating now. Five years ago we were only offering two one-year certificate programs. The diplomas are brand new to us.

NSCC is an open access college. We don't do a screening. As long as students who apply have the required prerequisites to come into the navigation cadet program or the engineering program we would accept them. Our capacity is 24 in each of those two sections. We are not filling to capacity yet. We feel there is a wonderful career opportunity there. We are actively promoting and recruiting. The programs are new and we are not filling to capacity yet.

In regard to graduates who get employment Captain Vivek can speak to that but it is almost 100 per cent. If they are graduating from our program many of the companies are recruiting them in year one and encouraging them to go on their placement with a particular company. Then they would continue with the company and would have long-term employment there. Our curriculum is quite new and our programming is quite new. Some of that data will take a while before we can get it.

Senator Poirier: My next question is for both of you. In visiting one of the sites, not yesterday but the day before, we met with a group of four who worked on the vessel. There was the engineer and all the different positions that were there. In speaking with them the conversation came up of where they had taken their training, what courses, and did they go to the community college or the Coast Guard College? None of the four who were there that day had gone to the colleges.

Most of them had been self-trained except for the engineer who had his training elsewhere. Some had been self trained. Some had been fishermen before and whatever. Most of them who were there had been there for 25, 30, 35 or 36 years actually. When we questioned them they said there was no actual course out there they could take which offered training for a person to do the job exactly as they are now.

We questioned them. What do you see as the future in 10 years if something is not given along that line? A lot of the new people coming in who have an interest in doing it and self-train as they are doing it are having a hard time getting a full-time position right away. They get into a term or a casual position and unfortunately by the time something else comes up they have moved on to someplace else.

Is the Canadian Coast Guard College anticipating putting a program in place in the near future? Is the NSCC anticipating putting in place a course in the near future that could fill this need for the future? Is that something that you would like to see the committee recommend? Would it be helpful specifically with the Canadian Coast Guard where we would have authority with the report? Is it something that should be recommended that would be put in place as extra training?

Mr. LeBlanc: From the beginning the Coast Guard College concentrated on the officer training program, bringing people in from zero and training them through to be officers. Some came with some experience in advance. Over the years we have had a number of different programs where we took ship crews and we trained them to be officers. We gave them the coaching and the classes necessary to write their Transport Canada exams. We had different courses in administration to be a Coast Guard ship officer.

A lot of that fell by the way over the years, but like I mentioned yesterday today's Coast Guard College has to be different. We can't just be introductory training programs. We have to be an institute involved in the lifelong learning of all our officers, ship crews and other officers that work on shore throughout their entire career.

As we speak we are looking at developing additional programs to give professional courses for current officers and current crew members to go to the next step of taking crew members to be officers in the Coast Guard and to train people on shore to be better at their jobs like electronic technicians for instance. We are looking at changing and bringing in new technology such as distance learning, satellite offices, virtual classrooms and online courses.

At the same time, and I know NSCC will be able to add to this, with changing international standards of training and certification for watchkeepers eventually you will have to go to a marine school in order to get certification to be an engineer or a navigation officer.

With that in mind it is going to be more important for schools like the NSCC and the Coast Guard College to make the programs available, the time available, and the instructors, the staff and the material available to train our people for a career path not just as a crew member but eventually as an officer as well.

Mr. Saxena: I will respond regarding the training at The Nautical Institute at NSCC. In the marine industry training has evolved over the past few years. It has changed. You mentioned meeting with people who did their own training. Previously a lot of people used to challenge exams. Transport Canada had the option where basically you can learn on your own, go and write the exam and as long as you passed the exam you can get the certification from Transport Canada.

As I mentioned earlier things are changing not just at Transport Canada but internationally and globally. The training requirements are changing. The marine industry is a global industry as I mentioned earlier. Training standards are set at the IMO level and they are translated to Transport Canada.

Recently the new marine personnel regulations which will be coming out in 2017 will basically mandate that all the seafarers have to come to school for any upgrades or for any education. The whole option of challenging the exam and learning on your own will not be there. There has to be a mandatory requirement for students to enrol with some form of recognized institute.

Those new marine personnel regulations are coming out. Once they are in place all recognized schools in Canada will have options for the people to enrol with us to take the course, do their upgrade or do their training from scratch to be the seafarer.

Senator Hubley: In the maritime SAR incidents between 2011 and 2015 the fishing vessels and the pleasure vessels were the huge majority maybe because they are the majority of vessels on the water. It is consistent over all of those years but when we are asking about certification, upgrading skills and captains being certified is there anything way you can impact in a good way on what you have seen through your work in the colleges?

Mr. Gunn: Safety is paramount with NSCC and we have the School of Fisheries as well. Their primary work is safety training around Nova Scotia. For the younger students who are coming in two years ago we launched a certificate program where they could take a full year of work studying the fishing industry and the safety requirements of the fishing industry. That program is another new program that is oceans related and safety focused.

Mr. Saxena: I agree with you that the incidents that happened with fishing vessels and pleasure craft are definitely at the top of the list. If you look at the stats for the last 10 years or 20 years the trend is downward. We are improving.

In 1999 training standards were put in place. They started these pleasure craft operator cards or the boater cards. Previously before 1999 there was no requirement for people who were using a pleasure craft to have any form of training. Since 1999 a lot of people are going for the training and the trend is a downward one.

That is a very positive thing which I have seen. Yes, there is still a lot of work to be done, but the people who are responsible for setting the training standards understand it and are making the changes.

As I said earlier Transport Canada listens to the industry. They listen to us and they are working tremendously to make sure that there has to be proper training for all people who are going on the water.

The Chair: I want to thank our witnesses for your informative comments and freely answering our questions. Once again I thank Mr. LeBlanc for our visit yesterday.

We are looking forward to our next presenters. As we travelled throughout Nova Scotia in the last couple of days we have heard very much about the auxiliary and the important part that it plays with the Canadian Coast Guard. Certainly from every corner and group we have visited it has been nothing but positive. I just want to pass that on beforehand and just to welcome you.

I would like to ask our guests to introduce themselves first and then I understand we have some opening remarks you would like to make and then our senators will go to questions. The floor is yours.

Frank Boudreau, President, Maritimes, Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary: My name is Frank Boudreau. When I was first with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary it was called the Canadian Marine Rescue Auxiliary in 1979. Then it went on to become the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary about 10 years later in 1989. I am from Shediac, New Brunswick, more or less Pointe-du-Chêne to be exact. I have been director or assistant director since 1979 or for about 37 years. Our manager is here, Darcy Henn and he will introduce himself.

Darcy Henn, Manager, Maritimes, Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary: Good afternoon. I am Darcy Henn. I am the Regional Business Manager for the Coast Guard Auxiliary. My role is to manage the day-to-day operations of the auxiliary, which is a non-profit organization. We look after the training and recruitment of our auxiliary members. We have a small presentation we would like to go through this afternoon if we could.

The Chair: The floor is yours.

Mr. Boudreau: CCGA Maritimes provides year-round search and rescue support to New Brunswick, Magdalen Islands, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia in conjunction with our Coast Guard partners. We have about 790 volunteer members with 460 vessels. We respond to about 30 per cent of marine regional SAR incidents.

The maritime region is divided into 16 zones based on geographical location. Each zone has a zone director who makes up the board of directors for the corporation.

Auxiliary assets primarily consist of private commercial fishing vessels valued at $72,940,462. The return on investment DFO receives from the maritime region based on current funding model is for $1 invested, $81.35 in return in assets and volunteer hours.

The maritime region challenge is that funding for the provincial water safety program was cut and moved away from the auxiliary. A few years back we had Bobby the Boat that was used to go in schools and pre-schools to teach about water safety, how to wear lifejackets and how to behave on boats. About five years ago the funding stopped. We still have the two Bobby the Boats sitting in garages waiting for more funding.

Auxiliary has invested significantly in water safety prevention programs. Community groups and schools continue to contact the auxiliary to provide prevention programs. The auxiliary provided limited prevention support and must relocate funds for other priorities to meet prevention requests of schools and community groups. I will turn it over to Darcy.

Mr. Henn: Just to continue on with the SAR challenges in the maritime region and starting with 911 agency support, 911 support for marine related incidents requires review. Calls into 911 for marine related incidents are routed to fire, local police and RCMP agencies when this should be forwarded to the joint rescue centre. This delays the dispatch of rescue from Coast Guard or auxiliary members putting lives at risk. JRCC has met with 911 agencies in the past. However the challenge still exists.

We have a number of specific cases that JRCC has the details on to show where the delays are when an individual calls 911 and the call does not go through JRCC. We have incidents of delays of from 16 minutes up to two hours most recently.

Our fiscal budgets have not been increased for over the past five years. Costs to support member training have increased translating into fewer members being able to attend training programs. On water SAR training support specifically has been negatively impacted. Increased funding and the gratuitous transfer of government boat assets to the auxiliary would significantly support on water training of members. Inflation increasing demands will continue to strain the resources.

The pictures you see in the handout on page 7 are all Crown asset vessels that auctioned off. They were all taken out of service and actually sold anywhere between $12,000 and $24,000. I understand that money goes back into those specific budgets for those departments, but when we look at how we try to strengthen the auxiliary and continue with the training to make sure their skill set is where it needs to be funding certainly is key. Having those assets transfer to the auxiliary would certainly help as well.

There are opportunities for the maritime region. Auxiliary members can be utilized to support marine environmental responses. They have local knowledge and a marine skill set makes them a valuable partner in responding to marine environment situations. Currently they are not utilized for this particular response but funding to support ongoing training of this opportunity would be required.

Another opportunity for the auxiliary would be SAR agency joint training. The Coast Guard Auxiliary, Civil Air Search and Rescue and Ground Search and Rescue are all volunteer agencies. Joint agency training with volunteer agencies as well as local, provincial and federal SAR partners would strengthen the maritime SAR system and deliver a cost effective way to increase capacity and response. However funding to support ongoing training of this opportunity would be required.

Once or twice a year we have the opportunity to train with federal and local agencies. However each agency runs their own particular SAR agency in a particular way and knowing how we can work together would certainly help.

In conclusion, auxiliary members are ready and able to assist year round when called for SAR emergencies. The scope of the auxiliary member can be expanded. Increased funding and the transfer of government assets to support on water SAR training is required and the local knowledge and mariner skill set of the Maritimes Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary member is key and an invaluable resource for the maritime SAR system.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee today. We would be happy to answer any questions, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair: It just gives us an eye-opener of the important role that the auxiliary plays. Certainly we are astounded by some of the numbers in here.

I am going to leave it to my colleagues to ask me questions and as usual I am going to start with the deputy chair of our committee, Senator Hubley.

Senator Hubley: Thank you for being with us today. I have to comment at the top by saying that all of the organizations we have met with to date feel the auxiliary plays an important and essential role. To that end the opportunities you have listed in your conclusions are well founded. You have stated what your needs are very clearly. I think they call them ships of opportunity when they don't want to call them auxiliary.

For the local fishermen from New Brunswick or Nova Scotia they are there but as you said it takes their time and requires their assets. What is the reimbursement? How are they reimbursed for the expenditure that they would make in responding to an incident?

Mr. Henn: Just to clarify, vessels of opportunity are private members. They are not part of the auxiliary. When they are asked to support an emergency they are not reimbursed by the auxiliary nor any other agency. They are just private individuals.

When Coast Guard Auxiliary members are tasked to support a SAR emergency they are reimbursed based on their horsepower and size of their vessel. That is essentially to help recoup the costs of running the vessel. The money actually goes to the vessel owner.

If an auxiliary vessel is tasked you have a captain and you could have three or four crew members. Those crew members are volunteering. They are not paid. No auxiliary member is paid to do this. The money is simply is set out by the Government of Canada to reimburse our members for fuel.

Senator Hubley: That was news. I didn't quite understand that the workers were volunteering at that time. I thought there was a reimbursement for them all.

Mr. Henn: No. The crews on the fishing vessels actually have the option of saying, "Yes, I will help'' or, "No, I will not help.'' In that case they would not participate. That is very important because if they decide to help and they are not an auxiliary member they are still classified as a person of opportunity. We have that category to ensure they are covered under our insurance. Insurance liability is very important in this business.

Senator Hubley: Yes, I am sure it would be.

Senator Stewart Olsen: To reiterate, without the auxiliary I don't think we would have such really good stats in our search and rescue. Thank you very much for all your efforts. I would like to hear from you as honestly as you can the status of our search and rescue efforts in Canada.

Mr. Henn: I will speak just to the maritime region because that is my experience with the search and rescue system. We work with our Coast Guard partners. That relationship is extremely strong. We receive great support from them. They help us with our training and support us in our training. That relationship is certainly key for the auxiliary.

When a call comes into the joint rescue centre they work with their primary assets and with auxiliary members classified as secondary assets to support whatever is the emergency. That seems to work extremely well and a lot of it is based on the fact that we have a very good working relationship.

Senator Stewart Olsen: When you talk about your training is that paid for? Do you actually go into centres and be trained or how does that work?

Mr. Henn: We have our own training budget and with those moneys we will set up training based on the available resources. When our members go to a training exercise they are not reimbursed. It is all volunteer time. We keep track of their hours. If we use a member's vessel to practise towing or to practise any type of SAR emergency, that vessel owner is reimbursed just for their fuel.

Senator Stewart Olsen: This presentation is very good as to what is needed and I don't need to reiterate that. I honestly say just for the record that if we didn't have the auxiliary we would be severely stressed to provide search and rescue.

Senator Poirier: Your volunteer members, if I understand most of them are they local fishermen. They are the local members. How do they become local members? Do they just say, "I want to join your auxiliary?'' Is there a screening process? How do they become a member of your association?

Mr. Henn: If individuals identify that they would like to join the auxiliary we have zone directors. First of all we have a look to see if it is a shortfall area. We have to manage the number of members we have in a zone based on the map because we only have so many funds from a training perspective. If there is a shortfall area where we need an auxiliary member then we would say to that member, "Yes, you can join.'' However prior to being tasked and going out on a SAR emergency they have to participate in some basic training programs to get them familiar with search and rescue techniques, procedures and how to work with our search and rescue partners.

Senator Poirier: A bit like our local firemen and volunteer firemen.

Mr. Henn: Absolutely.

Senator Poirier: Once a member is called upon to help out in a search and rescue activity we know that they have had the training and that they are doing this as a volunteer. Is there some type of protection for them if something should happen to either their vessel or themselves or an injury or something while they are doing this volunteer work? Are they protected? Is it their own insurance that would protect them or do you give an extra protection to these people?

Mr. Henn: There is an extra protection. The auxiliary nationally has an insurance policy itself. Across the five regions the cost of the insurance policy is split five ways. My budget is $914,600. Right off the top I lose $168,000 for insurance. That leaves $700,000 and change for training and search and rescue operations. The dollars quickly do get used up. Yes, there is a policy for that.

Senator Poirier: And your funding comes from where?

Mr. Henn: Our funding comes from DFO, Department of Fisheries, through the Coast Guard.

Senator Poirier: I am just thinking of a fisherman or somebody that is in distress along our local area where we all live. Would you be like the first responder? Are you the ones that can get there the fastest? I know the Coast Guard, if it is peak time of the day, has 30 minutes to respond. Are you a first responder that would even be there quicker than that?

Mr. Henn: If JRCC contacts our members, yes. We cannot respond to an emergency unless we are tasked through JRCC. We need to receive a tasking number for us to be covered under our insurance and our reimbursements.

Senator Poirier: Would they contact you in something like that?

Mr. Henn: Yes. JRCC would have a look to see what assets are available. They always use their primary assets first but if there is not a primary asset from the Coast Guard available they would contact an auxiliary member.

Senator Poirier: My last question concerns 911. What seems to be the big problem that they can't understand how a marine activity would be better answered?

Mr. Henn: The coordinators from the joint rescue centre and certainly Harvey Vardy from the Coast Guard can go deeper into my understanding. Part of the challenge is the high turnover of the 911 teams. JRCC will go in to make a presentation and help educate them. My understanding is that there is a high turnover so it has to be done again.

Another aspect would be that 911 seems to work well in some areas of the Maritimes, whereas in other areas there is a greater challenge. In Nova Scotia and New Brunswick the 911 system seems to be better. They seem to direct the calls for marine emergencies to JRCC. In northern New Brunswick and parts of Quebec where some of our members are still tasked from there seems to be a bigger challenge. That is where the case examples JRCC have would certainly be seen where there are delays from 15 minutes up to in some case two hours.

Senator Poirier: Thank you and thank you for the great work that you all do.

Senator Munson: Just to follow up on that, thank you for what you do. You say in your report when they should be forwarded to JRCC. Is there a specific number? Has there been any campaign or publicity of when they should be forwarded that way?

I know you probably don't have an answer for this because it is very difficult to do, but have these delays from15 minutes to two hours have they resulted in unnecessary deaths or injury? Can you give us an example where 15 minutes may have saved somebody's life?

Mr. Henn: With respect to the process 911 follows on whether or not the call should go to JRCC or to another local agency, I am not familiar with that process.

In terms of commenting on have the delays caused any loss of life. Specifically I can't comment on that either. JRCC does have all of the case records and will have those examples if you would like them.

Senator Munson: JRCC has met with the 911 agency. However the challenge still exists. This may be a naive question. Publicity-wise is there a number out there to call in a marine disaster or something along that line? Is it out there like 511 or something else to get immediate response?

Mr. Henn: There is a number that goes directly to JRCC. It is a 1-800 number but there has not been a campaign like there has been for 911 or 411.

As basic as it sounds, through the auxiliary members we have little stickers that say, "For marine rescue call 1-800.'' We have given these out to a number of our members to pass out to local marinas. Even now we are going to the fishery schools to hand it out. We are just trying to get the word out because that is the number to call for marine emergencies. An education campaign is required.

Senator Munson: It is interesting that you say that. I originally come from northern New Brunswick. Do the people in the Bathurst Marina and other marinas know? They go out on pleasure craft or to do some mackerel fishing or just and doing their things. Do they automatically know when they are out there who to call?

Mr. Henn: I don't believe they do.

Senator Munson: It is important for us to emphasize in our committee to have that connection with local marinas and that sort of thing. I have another question on reduced training support. Fiscal budgets have not been increased for over five years. Whose fiscal budgets?

Mr. Henn: That would be the budget that the auxiliary receives through the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Senator Munson: What do you receive?

Mr. Henn: I receive $914,600.

Senator Munson: From DFO. Is that is for all of Atlantic Canada or the Maritimes?

Mr. Henn: That is for the four Maritime provinces.

Senator Munson: That is not very much.

Mr. Henn: That is for the whole year.

Senator Munson: That is not much.

Mr. Henn: No, and my insurance is $168,000. That leaves me with $746,000 to support training. Whenever operations take place to reimburse members, it has to come out. We are very close when it comes to money.

Senator Munson: When you are doing the training people are cut off in these training programs because you can't do the proper training? Is that the issue?

Mr. Henn: Yes. What happens is we have to limit the number of members we can train at any given time because of our budget constraints.

I apologize for the zone map being so small but if you look at the 16 zones and the length of shoreline we have to cover, a number of members are along those shorelines. We try to pick strategic locations to get as many members as possible to attend. It is a challenge. If we want members to practise with their own vessels, whether it be doing search patterns on the water or towing other vessels, if it takes them an hour and a half to two hours to steam to where we are going to conduct the exercise I have already spent two hours' worth of reimbursement for fuel just to get it on site and it will take another two hours for that vessel to get home. We have to limit the vessels we use and the locations to try to bring as many people together to maximize our dollars.

Senator Munson: With that in mind, in your report water SAR training support specifically has been negatively impacted. I don't have the numbers in front of me of all the boats that are out there. Whether it is pleasure or small fishing craft, in terms of that negativity how many operators of these boats have never been trained or have never seen anything in terms of search and rescue or helping out somebody else who might be in trouble and that sort of thing?

Mr. Henn: All our members have received training and all of them have received search and rescue specific training with respect to what the auxiliary is allowed to do under search and rescue. When it comes to utilizing their own vessels all the members have at least used their vessels once or twice over the course of whether it be two or three years.

As we all know, when it comes to search and rescue, training techniques, first aid, and conducting search patters on the water, you start to lose some of those finer details. That is why training is always key. We train every year. We try to get as many members as possible but it is very restrictive based on our financing.

Senator Poirier: Since you are partnering with the Canadian Coast Guard could some of that training be offered through the Coast Guard College?

Mr. Henn: No, the reason being this is specifically practising on water and the classroom aspect we conduct. We can do that. There probably is some tabletop training we could do through the college. However when we conduct tabletop training we like to take it out to the members in their zones to reduce the cost of travel and reimbursements associated with that. The classroom type training we conduct ourselves in the zones.

Senator Enverga: You mentioned that you support 30 per cent of the maritime region. Out of the 30 per cent could you think of any incident where you think you must have done better than what the Coast Guard did?

Mr. Henn: Out of those incidents, no. I wouldn't say it is a matter of we have done better than the Coast Guard. It is more a matter of after an incident could we have done something better collaboratively?

When a SAR tasking comes in the Coast Guard generally would be tasked if they have a primary asset. If they are not and our vessel gets there first because they are the only asset available then they do based on their training exactly what they are supposed to do. We will ask JRCC afterward if there is any feedback because everything is recorded from the minute you are tasked to the minute the tasking is completed. We would ask for feedback from their perspective on if there is anything we could have done better, but in terms of the auxiliary members doing better than the Coast Guard, no, there is no competition. We work hand in hand. It is a collaborative approach.

They help us significantly in our training. When possible they provide training. This summer we had the opportunity to have them put on two training exercises for us in P.E.I. Then unfortunately due to operational requirements they weren't available for the rest of the summer. We certainly put training together for our members and that is how we were able to try to maintain the standard of search and rescue training.

Senator Enverga: On page 7 you said the gratuitous transfer of government boat assets to the auxiliary would significantly support on water training of members. Can you tell me why they don't want to give it to you? Can you tell me any other reason other than a small sum of money maybe?

Mr. Henn: Why they don't want to give it to us?

Senator Enverga: That's right.

Mr. Henn: I truly believe part of it is just the path to make it happen. Auxiliaries have received the transfer of assets from other departments in the past, but I understand that part of it is money because whatever it sells for goes back into that department's money. I respect that.

Another part is perhaps the process to make it happen. I have looked at the small amount of money that goes back into a government department. Whether it be $12,000 or even up to $25,000, all of you can go on the Crown assets website to see what these vessels sell for. Having that vessel go to an auxiliary across Canada, it doesn't matter what auxiliary, the return on investment the government would get is huge.

The value of using vessels for on water training is significant. These vessels would act as the command centre just like a JRCC in Halifax. We could task our own vessels with training scenarios, doing search patterns and looking for mannequins in the water. We can actually see how they are performing and then debrief to certainly critique and make it better.

There is huge value in this right across Canada. That is my understanding of why it is not happening. I am sure there is a lot behind the scenes that I am not aware of, but if that process could be streamlined and made easier then auxiliaries would benefit and the SAR system nationally would benefit.

Senator Enverga: Do they invite you when there is a big meeting? Do they invite you? Do they give you priority to bid first on something like that?

Mr. Henn: Once it hits the auction website anybody can buy it. As a non-profit organization we cannot use our funds to buy vessels. I can't even go out and bid on a vessel. That in itself is a challenge.

Senator Enverga: How many times does this happen every year?

Mr. Henn: It is ongoing, sir.

Senator McInnis: Did you ask specifically for the assets?

Mr. Henn: Yes. The maritime region asked for the gratuitous transfer of assets and we have received one. Actually this is the first one we have received, which was fantastic. It was great that we got it this February.

These vessels are on the website from the Atlantic region. There was approximately five to six that were sold when they could have been diverted to either the Maritimes auxiliary or the Newfoundland auxiliary if they wanted. I am not speaking on their behalf. Just having the option to have those offered to auxiliaries across Canada would be significant for the SAR system.

Senator McInnis: Your auxiliary uses their own assets. They use their own boats, correct?

Mr. Henn: Yes.

Senator McInnis: How would you deploy these? What would be the insurance problems? Would there be training necessary to handle these high-speed vessels?

Mr. Henn: Yes. From an insurance perspective our insurance policy covers these types of vessels. We are covered. From a training perspective the Coast Guard Auxiliary has a training program to train crews and captains for these vessels. It is Transport Canada certified. We have the training and we have the insurance.

How these would be used is when we send our own members out in their vessels. These vessels would be used as a command to help in the training or with the towing. These vessels would aid in whatever exercise or training opportunity we want to cover.

Senator McInnis: Do you raise funds yourself? I read where in Australia, New Zealand and the U.K. they raise funds from the private sector and corporate sector. I would think because of what you are doing people would probably be less hesitant to open their account. It is a tremendous thing that you are doing and the public out there would certainly sympathize. Do you raise money? Have you looked at the private sector?

Mr. Henn: The opportunity to raise money in the Maritimes is a challenge. The auxiliaries across Canada differ significantly. In the Pacific auxiliary they are all community owned vessels. In order for those community owned vessels to stay up and running they require a great deal of fundraising.

Here in the Maritimes and in Newfoundland we are all private vessels. These privately owned vessels vary anywhere from $60,000 up to half a million dollars. That makes up our auxiliary. To go out and fundraise to start purchasing our own vessels is not a need at this point when I already have 460 vessels. From a vessel perspective we have lots. It is just having a couple assets that would be within the auxiliary to help facilitate the training.

Senator McInnis: These vessels are something that the Coast Guard, the RCMP or whatever would use.

Mr. Henn: These are Crown asset vessels. Yes, that is correct.

Senator McInnis: Auxiliary members use these types of vessels.

Mr. Henn: We would use these vessels to facilitate training with our own member vessels. If I have four fishing boats out on the water in order to help train them you need to have a command centre on the water.

Senator McInnis: Oh, I see.

Mr. Henn: That would be used as the command centre.

Senator McInnis: Just like search and rescue, as Senator Stewart Olsen alluded to.

Mr. Henn: That's right.

Senator McInnis: Of course the search and rescue raise money privately big time.

Mr. Henn: Yes.

Senator McInnis: We heard yesterday and talked about early today being proactive and educating the public and the students in schools and so on. Your funding was cut with respect to water safety prevention programs. Auxiliary had invested significantly in water safety prevention programs. Community groups and schools continue to contact the auxiliary. How much of it was cut and was it specifically that? Was that a budget line that was cut?

Mr. Henn: Specifically funding for prevention was cut from the auxiliary budget and the Coast Guard budget. That fell under Transport Canada. What you see on slide No. 5, that little Bobby the Boat was actually used for water prevention. All the auxiliaries across Canada purchased those. They are approximately $5,000 to $6,000 each. They are remote controlled. They are used in the schools and with community groups, whether it be with Brownies, Beavers or groups of that nature, to talk about the importance of water safety. There is an actual program designed around water safety.

When the funding was cut there was no money available for volunteer members to go to schools and community groups to conduct this training. We are allocating funds out of our operating budget to try to meet some of these minimal requirements.

Senator McInnis: Was it a percentage cut or did they say they were cutting that program?

Mr. Henn: That program was cut and there was no more funding dedicated to that.

Senator McInnis: Really?

Mr. Henn: Yes.

Senator Enverga: When was this?

Mr. Henn: Approximately five years ago.

The Chair: I may have missed it when I was talking to Senator Hubley. Is it the amount of funding for the program?

Mr. Henn: The actual prevention program itself was moved under Transport Canada. The Coast Guard talked earlier today where they had lost that aspect in their funding. When they lost their funding it trickled down and we lost ours.

The Chair: It trickled down to your organization.

Mr. Henn: Yes.

Senator Hubley: My question was going to be on your loss of the water safety prevention program. I am wondering if any other association such as the Red Cross has shown any interest in picking that up.

Mr. Henn: I can't speak specifically to what they are offering in terms of prevention. I understand a number of groups do some type of prevention. Unfortunately I can't speak to whether or not it is to the level that the auxiliary and the Coast Guard were offering.

Senator McInnis: How is it calculated? How do you get your funding?

Mr. Henn: The funding for the auxiliaries comes from the Coast Guard. It is the Coast Guard that looks at the five auxiliaries across Canada. They have parameters that they use to determine how much money goes to each of the regions.

Senator McInnis: Do you know what those parameters are?

Mr. Henn: There is a combination of the number of the taskings that take place in each of the regions, the members, the geographical location and the need. Once that budget was set five years ago it has not been changed.

The Chair: As Senator Stewart Olsen and others have said, since our past couple of days here we certainly understand even more the importance of your organization to the overall search and rescue efforts in Canada and certainly in your region.

We are delighted that you outlined in your presentation some of the challenges your organization is facing. It certainly is food for thought for our committee as we go forward. Once again thank you for taking the time to be here this afternoon.

(The committee adjourned.)

Back to top