Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries and Oceans
Issue No. 7 - Evidence - October 27, 2016 (afternoon meeting)
HALIFAX, Thursday, October 27, 2016
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day at 1:06 p.m. to continue its study on Maritime Search and Rescue activities, including current challenges and opportunities.
Senator Fabian Manning (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Welcome, everyone. My name is Fabian Manning. I am a senator for Newfoundland and Labrador and Chair of the Standing Senate Committee of Fisheries and Oceans. We are delighted to be here in Halifax today as we continue our study into the challenges and opportunities of search and rescue throughout our country.
I would ask senators present to introduce themselves, starting on my immediate right.
Senator Stewart Olsen: Carolyn Stewart Olsen, New Brunswick.
Senator Munson: Jim Munson. The heart is still in New Brunswick but I am an Ontario senator.
Senator McInnis: Tom McInnis, Nova Scotia.
Senator Enverga: Tobias Enverga, Ontario.
The Chair: I want to welcome our guests and thank them for taking the time to join us this afternoon and offer their comments to us. Please introduce yourselves.
Darrell Weare, Chief Operating Officer, Bayside Port Corporation: I am Darrell Weare from the Port of Bayside just outside Saint Andrews and on the U.S. border.
Tim Gilfoy, President, Independent Marine Ports Association of Canada: My name is Tim Gilfoy. I am here representing a group called the Independent Marine Ports of Association of Atlantic Canada. I am from the Strait of Canso Port in Nova Scotia. I am the president of the association so I am here on their behalf today.
The Chair: I understand you have some opening remarks. I will allow you time to deliver those and then we will go to questions from senators and hopefully we all learn something here.
The floor is yours, Mr. Weare.
Mr. Weare: I would like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before this Senate committee. It is an honour to present the thoughts and concerns of the Port of Bayside and my personal thoughts and concerns. Bayside is a facility that relies on safe passage of the oceans and shipping.
My name is Darrell Weare. I am a chartered accountant by training. I am the Chief Operating Officer of the Bayside Port Corporation. I serve as a member of the Maritime Seacoast Advisory Board. As you are aware that is the advisory board to the Canadian Coast Guard at least on the East Coast. I am also a member of the Maine and New Hampshire Port Safety Forum. Tim mentioned IMPAAC. I am a member of IMPAAC and serve on the executive representing the province of New Brunswick.
The Port of Bayside is a privately owned port since June 18, 1999. We are rather unique in that we have private stakeholders or shareholders and we operate like any profit-oriented business in Canada. We must make a profit to remain in business. We pay income taxes. We receive no government assistance of any type from any level of government: federal, provincial, municipal, government agencies and commissions.
We are just like the restaurant down the street. I heard you all talking about restaurants earlier. The Port of Bayside operates on the border of Canada and the United States. That presents some challenges as well as some opportunities. We have to be constantly aware that an international border exists less than a kilometre from the face of our wharf.
When I am sitting in my office if I look over my left shoulder and out the window I see the United States. If I look straight ahead I see Canada. I don't have a window on the right so I just see the wall. My daily working environment is looking at two countries at once.
Our transit route for vessels predominantly in Canadian waters crosses the international boundary a number of times. The route is approximately 20 nautical miles. We rely on Canadian as well as United States navigation buoys. We are also challenged by tides of approximately 25 feet.
In many parts of the world that would be a significant storm surge. To us it is just that every day it happens. Most days twice a day it happens. It is a fact of life living and working on the Bay of Fundy.
The benefits of our close proximity to the United States far outweigh our concerns in the long term or at least have to date. There is a fully staffed U.S. Coast Guard facility located in Eastport, Maine, less than 15 nautical miles from the port. There are two vessels permanently assigned to the facility, both high speed inshore patrol craft. I have been on both vessels and have held numerous meetings at the U.S. Coast Guard office in Eastport. Those normally occur when there is a large Federal Energy Regulatory Commission or FERC application going on for LNG type facilities where they are going to be using the ocean to transport LNG.
I get involved. I go to those meetings. I am usually the only Canadian at the table. Governments don't like to go because then they lend credibility to the fact they are going to use Canadian waters. I have a good working relationship with the U.S. Coast Guard. It is very comforting to know that they are that close. I know a lot of the pilots and some of the officers.
The Canadian Coast Guard maintains an inshore search and rescue craft in Saint Andrews, which is less than 10 kilometres from the port. From what I can gather talking to the Coast Guard the facility is unmanned. It is a heated garage. It has an inshore high speed search and rescue craft stored there. It is manned by staff from Saint John, which is approximately 100 kilometres or a little over 100 kilometres away.
That is a challenge from the point of view that most marine incidents occur in very poor weather conditions: wind, snow, fog and rain. In order to access the vessel these people have to travel 100 kilometres in this type of weather. However we have Eastport. It gives us a great amount of comfort knowing that they are there even though it is important that the Canadian Coast Guard maintain its presence in Saint Andrews, keep the facility there and have the vessel available.
My personal belief is that as a country we have reasonable systems in place to handle most offshore large vessel incidents. With large vessels there is a little better lead time usually if there is a problem. I realize a lot of incidents are more humanitarian while they are lifesaving. It is a sick seaman or something like that.
I have greater concerns with our ability to respond to the inshore fishing fleet, the smaller vessels that don't go offshore and the large number of pleasure recreational boaters that exist. In the area in which I live a tremendous number of sailboats and recreational vehicles are on the water. Fortunately the pleasure boaters are seasonal which at least eliminates the need to participate in wintertime activities, rescue attempts and that type of thing. Fishing boats are still out there but the fishermen are fairly well versed in when to leave the dock and when not to leave. I listen to them on the radio. They keep a pretty close eye on the weather.
In New Brunswick the Department of Public Safety operates the EMO, the Emergency Management Organization, does not proactively get involved in saltwater incidents. We have six of them in the province. I have spoken to Mr. Whalen who is responsible for our area and he says, "No, that is not our mandate. We don't get involved.'' They leave it to the Coast Guard, the federal Department of Fisheries and the military. As a result coastal communities are not involved to the extent that they could be in providing manpower and assets to assist, particularly in the shore-based part of SAR operations.
Prior to coming here I sent out an email. I also serve in municipal government or LSDs we call them in New Brunswick rural areas. I sent an email out to all the mayors and LSD members in the county and asked if they had any concerns. They are all coastal communities. Not a single one responded because I don't think they are aware of who has responsibility and what they might be able to do to help out.
That is a bit of my background and the environment in which I work and live. I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.
Mr. Gilfoy: I would like to begin with a little background on our organization and the role we play in the Atlantic Canadian economy and, more specifically to the interests of this committee, the role we can play in marine search and rescue.
In the mid-1990s the federal government embarked on an initiative known as the port divestiture program whereby Transport Canada divested itself of public ports across Canada. These ports were turned over to local business and community groups with the belief that local decision making would better serve the communities where these ports were located.
Recognizing that divested ports in Atlantic Canada had a wide range of common goals and issues, the Independent Marine Ports Association of Atlantic Canada was formed in 2005. Since its inception IMPAAC has focused on collaboration and best practices to make sure its member ports remain safe and viable, compliant with regulatory requirements, and meet the social and economic marine transportation needs of their respective communities.
The member ports of the Independent Marine Ports Association of Atlantic Canada are: in New Brunswick, the Port of Dalhousie and the Port of Bayside; in Nova Scotia, the Port of Digby, the Port of Yarmouth, the Port of Shelburne, Strait of Canso Port, and the Port of Sydney; on Prince Edward Island, the Port of Summerside, the Port of Charlottetown and the Port of Souris; and in Newfoundland, the Port of Argentia, the Port of Corner Brook, and the Port of Long Pond.
As the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans examines the challenges associated with marine search and rescue, I would like to draw attention to the geographic distribution of our member ports in Atlantic Canada. Marine search and rescue by its very nature is unpredictable with respect to the seriousness and location of the incidents to which they must respond.
At one time or another many of our member ports have accommodated Coast Guard vessels during the course of their movements throughout Atlantic Canada. We will continue to do so.
We understand that the Canadian Coast Guard conducts periodic exercises to ensure its personnel and equipment is in a state of readiness for any potential incident at sea. We would like to advocate and encourage the Coast Guard to involve our member ports in some of these exercises. Our port infrastructure can be a valuable asset in support of marine search and rescue operations.
Senator McInnis: Mr. Gilfoy, you talked about the divestiture of the ports. A number of these ports like Charlottetown and Summerside are fairly busy ports. They did that in certain ports on the eastern shore as well. Does your organization represent these ports? Are they members?
Mr. Gilfoy: Yes, each individual port that went through the divestiture program and the ones that I have listed here today all negotiated with Transport Canada to acquire physical assets in these various ports. As the divestiture program progressed there was recognition that we all have some common goals and some common issues. We felt it was a good mechanism to form this organization with a view toward advocating on the part of these small ports throughout Atlantic Canada and emphasizing the important role they play in the economic fabric of the communities they are in. Consistent with the intent of this committee, they can play very valuable roles as a base of operation for search and rescue activities as may be required.
Senator McInnis: Yes, but just tell me the membership of the respective ports. In Charlottetown and Summerside are there port authorities?
Mr. Gilfoy: In each of these ports an organization has been established and incorporated to take over and operate the ports, yes.
Senator McInnis: Totally on their own with no assistance from government?
Mr. Gilfoy: Usually as part of the divestiture program there was some money provided.
Senator McInnis: By Transport Canada.
Mr. Gilfoy: By Transport Canada but most of the money provided was to upgrade deficient facilities. For the most part a lot of these ports are now totally dependent on their own business to continue their existence.
Senator McInnis: From a pro and con point of view there is a port on the eastern shore at Jeddore Harbour. It is probably the busiest port of any port between Dartmouth, Antigonish and Strait of Canso. They are out there swinging in the wind.
Mr. Gilfoy: Yes.
Senator McInnis: I was pleased to hear these remarks when you were talking about divestiture. They got $10,000 some 15 years ago and the only purpose of that was to replank the wharf so no one would fall through. They got nothing. Would they be eligible to be a member of your association?
Mr. Gilfoy: One of the things we are trying to do is reach out to other ports to see if they want to become part of our organization. There is a difference between Jeddore and these ports. Jeddore is one of probably hundreds of ports in Atlantic Canada that fall under the jurisdiction of small craft harbours.
Senator McInnis: I know, yes.
Mr. Gilfoy: They are a different group of ports altogether than these divested ports. Part of our ongoing discussions at IMPAAC is how we can reach out to a greater number of ports with common interests. One of the groups that we have discussed is these small craft harbour ports that are everywhere.
Senator McInnis: Yes, they have absolutely no line with any government.
Mr. Gilfoy: No.
Senator McInnis: They get absolutely nothing. In Jeddore they employ probably 200 to 250 individuals. There is a fish plant there and so on.
Mr. Gilfoy: Yes.
Senator McInnis: Anyway I am off point.
Mr. Gilfoy: No, no. Maybe it is a good point.
Senator McInnis: That is something you and I are going to talk about down the road. Mr. Weare, there is no auxiliary in existence or anything like that in so far as you are concerned. There appears to be no logic in the fact that the Coast Guard is staffed from Saint John.
Are they basically saying to you the American Coast Guard is here and that is it? You have a Coast Guard ship in Saint Andrews.
Mr. Weare: Yes.
Senator McInnis: What are they saying to you? Are you happy?
Mr. Weare: As I said, I get great comfort from knowing that the Eastport is there. I watch every presidential election to see how they are going to treat Canada.
Senator McInnis: Hang on to your hat this time.
Mr. Weare: We get our comfort from the fact that Eastport is there. The Coast Guard has never directly said to me that we are to call them. We have their toll-free number if anything happens and that type of thing. I assume they would immediately call Eastport if we had a situation. That is how I understand they work on the borders particularly offshore. They will contact a ship or a country that is nearest and the distress call is made.
The fact is that a Canadian Coast Guard vessel is maintained in Saint Andrews. It is in a heated garage. I didn't even know that until two weeks ago. One had been there for 35 years and they put it up for tender. It was in ideal condition because they came down once a month to start it and take it for a little run.
I thought we would get our own craft at the port so I put a bid in on it and did not get it. That was when I got the history of this heated garage in Saint Andrews with an 18-foot craft in it with twin 50 horsepower engines capable of inshore search and rescue operations.
It was not a great job of advising. I don't know whether the public has to be advised. Certainly the municipalities and stakeholders involved should be advised. Nobody has advised us that if we make a call Eastport will be responding. I guess no one really knows. It depends on where there is a patrol craft and that type of thing. In the eight years I have been at the port I have seen one Coast Guard vessel wanting to fuel up one day and the biological station wharf wouldn't support an oil truck, so they called and asked if they could come up to the wharf and refuel.
I have seen a few more U.S. patrol boats go by but there is not a great presence by either Coast Guard. We get comfort from having Eastport there.
Senator Stewart Olsen: I think you have actually covered my observations from what you both said. I don't mean to put you on the spot but are you aware of any agreement with the Canadian Coast Guard and the U.S. Coast Guard for responsibilities or perhaps work sharing in a more formal fashion?
Mr. Weare: I am not aware of it. I sit on the Maritime Seacoast Advisory Board. It has never been brought it. I guess I have never brought it up and asked. It is the old ship in distress of the ocean's code that the nearest ship responds.
I briefly go back through the testimony of the Coast Guard. I think they were rather vague with your folks on it also as to whether there were any formal agreements or not.
Senator Stewart Olsen: It was very loose, yes.
Mr. Weare: Yes, very loose.
Senator Stewart Olsen: Because of your work or your sitting on the board in the U.S. do you notice a difference in the Coast Guard approach between the U.S. and Canadian coast guards?
Mr. Weare: It is probably the typical Canadian/U.S. attitude toward most things. We are a little more laid back. We accomplish the same thing with a little different demeanour. They are very aggressive. They are very professional. I have been on board both their vessels. They welcome me on board. They are very anxious to show me the vessels, show their capabilities and that type of thing. I have never been on a Canadian Coast Guard vessel.
Senator Stewart Olsen: To your knowledge have there been any requests for assistance from local fishermen or local sailors? Has there been a long wait time before they were rescued? Do you know if that has ever happened where you are?
Mr. Weare: Not that I am directly aware of. I could directly say I was involved in one incident. A kayaker got stranded on Saint Croix Island which happens to be a great Canadian landmark that is owned by the U.S. I was asked if I could send a vessel down to rescue the person but it turned out another chap had a vessel nearer. I can see Saint Croix Island from my office. He was right there. He went over and picked them up. I doubt if there was ever a call made to the Coast Guard.
Senator Stewart Olsen: Mr. Gilfoy, do you have any comment to make on what you are hearing?
Mr. Gilfoy: I don't have any knowledge of response times and that sort of type of thing. Part of what I am advocating right now is that given the geographic distribution of our member ports we would all welcome the opportunity to work with the Coast Guard.
I mentioned the exercise the Canadian Coast Guard already does with respect to their vessels. I could see some benefit in the participation of some of our member ports in those sorts of exercises. In the event that there is a serious incident in close proximity to one of our member ports then they would be a bit more up to speed to be able to respond in coordination with the Coast Guard.
Senator Enverga: Actually both of you operate independent marine ports. From your point of view this is a private company. Do you have any contingencies like oil rigs? Do you have any facilities or security equipment for the safety of your clients? Do you have anything like that?
Mr. Gilfoy: I am president of the Independent Marine Ports Association. We own and operate a couple of facilities in the Strait of Canso. Our big facility is in a community called Mulgrave. At that facility we own a number of buildings there. One of the buildings on our wharf houses a company called Point Tupper Marine Services Ltd. which provides oil spill response capability for about a 50-kilometre radius of the Port of the Strait of Canso.
We are a bit unique in that because the Strait of Canso has a very major oil terminal there owned by a company called NuStar. They handle some of the largest petroleum vessels afloat. They import and export fuel. When you have a facility in the area that handles that volume of petroleum product it really necessitates having a response capability right in the port. In answer to your question our port has a response capability for oil spills and such in the port.
Senator Enverga: But not for search and rescue along with your facility.
Mr. Gilfoy: No, we don't. Our only involvement with the Coast Guard isn't very regular. They do call at our facilities during inclement weather or to take on or drop off equipment. We don't normally get directly involved in search and rescue activities with them. With the collective infrastructure of all the ports in Atlantic Canada there is a role they can play in search and rescue.
Mr. Weare: We have had a couple instances with oil spills, one land based and one sea based with the ship being tied at the wharf. In that case the ship had the capability of containing the oil spill. We had appropriate material on site that had been provided by the Coast Guard so it was controlled very well. The call was made to the Coast Guard. They did not attend in that it was well looked after on a very quick and timely basis.
The other incident was a leaking tank on a tractor trailer sitting on the wharf. There was potential since there was a heavy rain storm at the time of it getting into the ocean. We maintain a list of contractor equipment or assets available to assist us with something like that. As soon as it was detected, which was about five minutes after it happened, I immediately made phone calls.
We organized the heavy equipment. We built coffer dams to control the oil spill. The Coast Guard arrived about an hour and a half later and said, "You fellows have done a tremendous job here. I will send you down a couple barrels of all these absorbent materials to assist you in the future.'' By maintaining a list of who is available to help out in a situation like that and having a minimum amount of material available we think we can deal with the minor things that would happen at our port.
Senator Enverga: Mr. Gilfoy, I know you operate a lot of local ports. Which one is the farthest from here and how far is it from any Coast Guard facility?
Mr. Gilfoy: I believe Dalhousie would be the farthest or maybe even Yarmouth. I would probably estimate Yarmouth. There is a base in Newfoundland and the second one is in Nova Scotia, is it?
Mr. Weare: Halifax has one. Saint John has one.
Mr. Gilfoy: I would say probably Yarmouth or Dalhousie. They would probably be the farthest points.
Senator Enverga: From any available Coast Guard, right?
Mr. Gilfoy: Right.
Senator Enverga: How do you feel about that? Do you think you are serviced well when it is that far?
Mr. Gilfoy: I would say the Coast Guard people themselves would be better able to answer that. Whether they are government or private organizations they tend to try to operate in the most economical possible way.
Having said that, that is why I feel the distribution of the independent marine ports help the Canadian Coast Guard in its response capabilities. They have a very large area to cover, but if there were training initiatives and some co operation with a number of our member ports that would provide a pretty good response capability throughout Atlantic Canada.
Senator Enverga: Would you be able to welcome them? Let's say I wanted to station one of my boats in your port.
Mr. Gilfoy: Absolutely, yes.
Senator Munson: Mr. Weare, I wonder if you could update us on the proposed LNG facility before I ask a couple of questions. There has been a lot of controversy across the country and a lot of controversy in your neck of the woods. I know a former senator who lives in that area has his own views on that, Senator Meighen.
With regard to the environmental aspect of it all I know you said you take great comfort in having the U.S. Coast Guard close by but nobody else seems to be close by.
Mr. Weare: Very true. I attended all the FERC meetings with respect to the three proposed LNG plants in the Passamaquoddy Bay. One was directly across from the port. I told them upfront I was pro-business but I wasn't pro anything that was going to detract from my business.
The end result was that I had to come out at those meetings and say that I couldn't see how they could operate efficiently without having an adverse effect on the Port of Bayside immediately across the water. Their financing dried up so that one is a dead horse.
Of the other two farther down the coast but still within Passamaquoddy Bay, another one has pretty well gone by the wayside which means there is one active. I still periodically get emails and things from FERC in the U.S.
Senator Munson: Who?
Mr. Weare: FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission in the U.S. I signed up as a member of that as an interested party and as a result they have to advise me of everything that comes before it.
The one directly across from Saint Andrews Downeast LNG still could go forward if the price is right or if it is ever economically viable. At this point in time it is not economically viable and it has sort of been mothballed. No one from either the federal government or provincial government attended the meetings for the simple reason the LNG ships would have to come through Western Passage which is Canadian waters. Both the federal and provincial governments took the stand they were not going to allow LNG ships in Canadian waters.
The U.S. was going through this whole procedure for nothing. Ultimately it would come down to the prime minister and the president having to meet on it and make a decision or somebody at a very high level.
Senator Munson: That is just not in play in terms of the safety aspect of it.
Mr. Weare: If it ever comes back to the table again I will certainly be at the table. I will be expressing the Canadian or view of the ports on it, which I think is the Canadian view. Fortunately they are the same so I can represent it in that way.
Senator Munson: I just needed an update on that. You mentioned in your submission that as a result coastal communities are not involved to the extent they could be in providing manpower and assets to assist. You answered a bit of that question for Senator McInnis, particularly the shore-based part of SAR operations. In your perfect world what would that assistance look like? What more could you do to be part of this search and rescue?
Mr. Weare: I have given this a lot of thought because of the many little harbours, ports and coastal communities that exist in our area. From my point of view the municipalities of Saint Andrews, Saint George and Blacks Harbour all have wharves and all have vibrant fishing communities, but I don't think the municipal councils are kept in the loop as to what is happening. I don't think they are encouraged to have a Coast Guard Auxiliary or encouraged to have land-based assets available.
Land-based assets exist in many cases within the fire departments because they have search and rescue assets but they are not in the loop. They almost have to step forward and volunteer. That is a lengthy procedure in the case of an emergency.
Senator Munson: It is important for our report to recognize that.
Mr. Gilfoy: I don't have much to add to what Darrell said. I think he covered it very well. The important thing to recognize is that there is a lot of land-based search and rescue capability whether it be infrastructure or expertise. There could be better communication and better co-operation with the Coast Guard in making them aware of what is available in particular areas.
As Darrell mentioned a lot of port infrastructure could be made available on an emergency situation to help with search and rescue but the coordination between the two is just not there right now.
Senator Munson: I have a little aside for the record. Is everybody well and safe in Machias Seal Island? It is the last disputed territory between Canada and the United States. I did a documentary on "W5" a long time ago of an American from Machias who planted his flag once a week. He has passed away now. I always have that in the back of my mind because that is where the Munsons came from up through there. They weren't Loyalists but they came into New Brunswick through Machias and all through there.
I am very interested in Machias Seal Island because I have been on it. It is picturesque and beautiful. You worry about oil spills but it is the last disputed territory between our two countries.
Mr. Weare: There is no question that Machias Seal Island is the last disputed. I keep track of it merely because I love watching and seeing all the pictures of the puffins.
Senator Munson: Exactly. I just had to get it out there today on the record.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Munson. I wonder why your people left it in the beginning. You never know.
I would like to ask one question in relation to the experience you have given us today in relation to your dealings with the United States Coast Guard, the close proximity of your operation, and your experience with the Canadian Coast Guard.
Do you see any major differences of delivery from one to the other? If so, would you just touch on it? We are just trying to find ways of improving what we have here and making recommendations from our committee on improving the Canadian Coast Guard where possible.
Were any lessons learned over the years of dealing with the U.S. Coast Guard? I am not looking for the negativity. I am just looking for something that may be working somewhere else but we are not doing here or whatever the case may be.
Mr. Weare: Even though I sit on the Seacoast Advisory Board I find I am a bit more in tune with what the U.S. Coast Guard is doing and what it is trying to accomplish in Eastport than I am with the Canadian Coast Guard.
Maybe it is communication. I don't know whether it is communication in general. I don't know what the U.S. Coast Guard does as far as the communities and the general seafaring population, I should say.
My experience is more one on one. I get regular updates from the Maine and New Hampshire Port Safety Forum in which the Coast Guard plays a very active role. It would be unfair to compare the two other than to say that initially it appears the U.S. might do a better job of communication with its stakeholders. They name a captain of the port. The captain of the port makes major decisions and all those types of things.
The Chair: I appreciate and understand where you are coming from.
Senator Stewart Olsen: I don't have a question but I do have a couple of conclusions from your testimony. With the committee's permission I would like to ask our researcher, our analyst, to provide us a list of Coast Guard stations and lifeboat stations within the Atlantic area and where they may or may not have lifeboats positioned and not manned. I would like to see that on a map. I would like to know where they are and if they are manned or not.
I would also like to request at our next planning meeting that we would think of perhaps inviting a representative from the U.S. Coast Guard to testify before us because of this interaction and the necessity of using the U.S. Coast Guard to man some of our areas.
The Chair: I think a couple of us were moving along the same lines in regard to inviting the U.S. Coast Guard. It is certainly something that was brought up here today.
I thank our guests for appearing here today and sharing their thoughts with us. We will certainly take the information we received today into consideration as we prepare our report. Perhaps there is something you may think of afterward that you wish you had said when you go back home in your car. If there is anything you wish you had said when you had an opportunity, feel free to forward it to us at any time. There is always something you may think of afterward.
I welcome our next panel. Thank you for taking the time to join us this afternoon to provide input into our study. Please introduce yourselves.
Lois Drummond, Member, Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary, as an individual: I am Lois Drummond with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary.
Ronald Pelot, Professor, Marine Affairs Program, Department of Industrial Engineering, Dalhousie University, as an individual: I am Ron Pelot from Dalhousie University, Department of Industrial Engineering.
The Chair: I appreciate your taking the time to join us this afternoon. I understand you have opening remarks you would like to make. Please do so and then we will get to questions from senators.
The floor is yours, Ms. Drummond.
Ms. Drummond: Good afternoon, Chair and Senate committee members. I have been a member of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary Maritime Region for 30 years. I am the director for zone 3 on Prince Edward Island. Zone 3 takes in the area from Victoria on the south shore to North Cape at the western tip and to North Rustico on the north shore. There are approximately 600 kilometres of coastline and we operate on the coastal waters off P.E.I.
At any time we may be called to assist the adjacent zones with their search and rescue activities. Zone 3 is made up of 50 volunteer members strategically located around zone 3 as outlined by the Canadian Coast Guard needs analysis.
Members are on call 24/7 and are tasked by the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre. Members are a blend of core fishermen and recreational boaters. We have vessels from 20 feet to 45 feet in length which are necessary for the various search and rescue scenarios we have to deal with from shoreline searches to deep water rescues.
Although the members are captains or crew of the vessels registered with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary and have expertise in navigation and local knowledge of the area in which they sail, they must agree to basic search and rescue training. They appreciate the opportunity to participate in training with Coast Guard Search and Rescue in Summerside, P.E.I., Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, and with the military from 413 Greenwood, Nova Scotia. There is a Coast Guard vessel in Alberton, the S. Dudka, on which we have done some dockside training but it does not have any Canadian Coast Guard personnel on board.
Our challenge with training is that when the Coast Guard is available for training our members have to work. When auxiliary members have time for training on evenings and weekends there is no overtime pay for Coast Guard for training us. It is important for members to review training methods so they know exactly what to do on a tasking. They must be proficient in radio communication, charting, plotting, towing procedures and first aid applications on a vessel.
Another challenge which affects both the Canadian Coast Guard and the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary is with 911. When people observe a situation on navigational waters or are in need of assistance on navigational water they instinctively call 911 that automatically call the fire departments and RCMP.
This practice is placing in danger the members of these organizations who should only be tasked for inland water search and rescue. By the time a fire department or the RCMP realizes they need a resource from the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre it could be too late and there could be a loss of life.
A few years ago search and rescue agencies met with 911 in Charlottetown, P.E.I., to express concerns and were told 911 is a municipal service and since JRCC is under federal jurisdiction it is not on the contact list 911 operators are trained to use. The phone number for air and sea distress 1-800-565-1582 is located on the first page of the phonebook. It is not an easy number to remember and many people are not issued phonebooks.
Another way to reach the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre is *16 on your cellphone but not everyone are aware of that. We would like to see *16 posted with the 1-800 number for air and sea distress.
Another challenging time is during the fishing season on the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, especially on Setting Day. Most of our members are setting gear themselves and there is no Canadian Coast Guard presence to respond to their distress calls as well as other transient commercial vessels that may need assistance in the area.
It is too bad the S. Dudka in Alberton is not used for search and rescue. At one time 413 were located in Summerside and now are in Greenwood, Nova Scotia. We have often thought there should still be a helicopter available for search and rescue out of Summerside. The Gulf of Saint Lawrence has heavy marine traffic with fishing vessels, recreation vessels and commercial ships. There are times when air support is required.
Thank you for this opportunity and I welcome any questions you may have.
Mr. Pelot: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am a professor at Dalhousie University in industrial engineering. I do a lot of quantitative analysis, specifically risk analysis. I started in 1994 and I was already doing environmental risk analysis. The Coast Guard approached the university saying that it had been to some workshop on risk management and thought that some of those techniques might be applicable to local decision making. This was one of the managers of the Maritimes region.
They commissioned me to do a small project then and I did it in the Bay of Fundy. The general purpose was to say that certainly there were incident patterns out there of how many recreational vessel incidents, how many shipping incidents, how many fishing vessel incidents and any other unusual ones. There were resources out there but it was very hard to compare across the country in a sense.
I am sure in your hearings that you have heard a lot more about this than I would know. If you are trying to compare recreational boating around Victoria, fishing off Newfoundland and cruise ships going up and down the West Coast, all saying that they need resources, how do you compare the need given that the type of incidents and the volume of traffic, et cetera, are different?
One way to approach that is to do some kind of risk analysis or quantitative analysis saying at least historically how many incidents have occurred and where, outlining the data we have from the Coast Guard in the SAR data set which is one of the best in the world. I read a lot of literature in this regard. The U.S. has a good database but the Canadian database is one of the most longstanding incident databases in the world.
Then you can look at the patterns to say whether they vary by season, which they do in some locations; how concentrated they are in some areas versus other areas; and whether there are trends in the patterns because of increased or decreased traffic. For example, the patterns in accidents before the 1993 cod fishery collapse were different from afterward because there were fewer vessels and vessels were doing something different.
Everybody knows this but they get a better idea of where the need for SAR resources might be changing if you start doing it with pictures and calculations of where the traffic is now and where are the incidents.
We started with the Bay of Fundy and then we were commissioned to do larger projects. We have done some directly for the Coast Guard. We have done some funded by the National Search and Rescue Secretariat, for example. We did some other projects for the Defence Research Establishment and Transport Canada because of the nature of the work we do. They are also interested in traffic patterns, spills and things like that. That is the kind of work I do.
More specifically to SAR the Coast Guard got money for eight new lifeboat stations in the late 1990s. We had already started doing our analysis work then. We were tasked with doing the specific analyses of where those lifeboat stations should be based on the best response time or the best coverage.
There were already guidelines. Maybe you have seen those reports. I am not saying to put them wherever you want, but they wanted one in the Bay of Fundy, one around Prince Edward Island and two on the west coast of Newfoundland. The Coast Guard knew what region it wanted them in.
The questions were: If we put it in this port or that port, does it give you better coverage? Is it too close to another Coast Guard station? How much benefit do you get in lowering the access time to incidents? How much coverage do you have generally if you are just trying to cover an area?
We did all the quantitative analyses for those lifeboat station placements. They were the same kind of techniques we are now applying as research topics with my grad students developing new methods and working occasionally with the Coast Guard when there is a change in the system. You might have a vessel that is out of commission unexpectedly for maintenance. If it is going to be for a while how do they adjust the other vessels to cover the gap?
They have a lot of experience. They probably have the best answer in their heads already. Sometimes they have us do some quantitative analysis saying if you take this vessel from here and start patrolling out there for two months, how does that improve the new area? Then you lose something where the vessel is now. It is kind of spatial analysis of how you can look at adding vessels, removing vessels because they are out for maintenance and/or just changing where vessels are going because of multi-tasking. If you are multi-tasking how does that affect SAR standby posture because the vessels are in different locations now? We have done all of those kinds of analyses.
Although we haven't done a formal analysis yet, in the longer term you can start saying right now the Coast Guard is getting new vessels and they are planning for more in the future. They might have different ranges and capabilities. What should that optimal fleet mix be and where would those vessels go to get the best bang for your buck?
We are starting to work on models for that which aren't probably realistic enough yet because we don't have enough data but they give the right idea. Those are the processes we are looking at now.
Finally I might just mention that we have also looked at the Arctic with a couple big projects now. We know about the corridors project. We are working in tune with what is going on in Ottawa, looking at possible increased traffic in the Arctic in the future, at current response capabilities mostly in the south and at our possible options for improving coverage up North.
I know your session is about opportunities and challenges. I would say the work we do is to find gaps in challenges and maybe look at new ways to position assets or acquire assets that would help improve the response capabilities. We are trying to address both sides of that equation.
The handout I gave you has graphs of some of the things we do. They are much clearer than just trying to explain it in words to show the implications of the different research topics. Thank you very much for the opportunity to come and talk to you.
The Chair: I certainly look forward to some engagement now with our senators and questions. We are going to go to Senator McInnis first, please.
Senator McInnis: Professor Pelot, it is amazing that the government agency is using common sense in getting you to do a study as you have done. It makes eminently good sense. To your knowledge has the Coast Guard received any complaints of where you have placed vessels, particularly when one goes out of service and you bring in another one? You have studied the traffic and so on but have you heard any feedback?
Mr. Pelot: I haven't heard any complaints directly. I see what I do always as let's say decision support systems. In other words it gives some insights and appreciation of trade-offs.
I don't know how often the Coast Guard actually does what we recommend versus something similar. I don't see that they are generally taking what we say directly and implementing it because the models have limited information. I know for the lifeboat station placement around Prince Edward Island there were about eight locations. There is Richibucto as well as Borden and Summerside. Even the Coast Guard experts couldn't quite see where would be the best place because there are incidents all around and you have to go around the island.
I know they took our recommendation and used it because it really showed the trade-offs. I know people have used the Access to Information Act to get at some of our reports even though they are not classified. I never heard back after that so maybe they were satisfied with what we wrote up. I don't know if that answers your question.
Senator McInnis: Yes, it does. You have done some work in the Arctic. The Arctic is becoming much more important, it appears, particularly with climate change and so on. You have done some work with the Inuit communities along the Arctic. How do you see that might possibly play with respect to the Coast Guard and search and rescue in the Arctic, particularly here?
Mr. Pelot: I haven't worked with Inuit communities being more of an analyst and engineer, but I am currently involved with one new project. We have applied for funding for people who do work with the Inuit. One is Dr. Jackie Dawson at the University of Ottawa who has done a fair amount of work with Transport Canada on shipping in the Arctic and co-written about cruise ships in the Arctic. She is a geographer with some analytical skills but she is up meeting with communities all the time about their concerns. Then we start collaborating because we have more advanced statistical and analytical capabilities. We are starting a project now, working together, funded by the Nunavut Research Institute. We just got it approved a month ago.
I can't really answer your question directly. The purpose of that one is not just to look at future traffic trends and what might be good possibilities for SAR or for other traffic management working with Coast Guard in Ottawa but also to involve the Inuit communities more in those values and decision-making processes.
I won't go into the other one in depth because we just applied two weeks ago. It is led by Dr. Claudio Aporta at Dalhousie who also was in Ottawa before. His research is Inuit historical patterns in the North, where they hunt and where they go.
Senator Munson: He was in Ottawa recently.
Mr. Pelot: Yes, he was. He is leading that project and that is more about consulting with groups and looking at shipping patterns. We are starting a lot of new work in that area.
Senator McInnis: Yes, it is very interesting. Ms. Drummond, have you had any meetings with the Coast Guard with respect to coordinating training efforts?
Ms. Drummond: We have an annual meeting and a semi-annual meeting with all 16 zones and we invite the Coast Guard to come to the meetings. Actually just this past weekend we had training with the Coast Guard in Dartmouth.
Senator McInnis: Do you relay any concerns with respect to training?
Ms. Drummond: There just aren't enough. It comes back to money, I guess. For instance, we have a great working relationship with the base in Summerside but they can't work with us when they are on duty. They can work with us if they go out and do trials or whatever. They invite us to go but our members are working in those hours. It is after hours when they are on standby and they are not actually at the base. They have a 30-minute response to the base.
Senator McInnis: The 911 issue was raised here yesterday, I think it was. That is a major concern, isn't it?
Ms. Drummond: Yes, is it.
Senator McInnis: It causes delays. Who have you approached with respect to that?
Ms. Drummond: I was speaking with Peter Garapick from Sault Ste. Marie. All the search and rescue agencies around P.E.I. met in Charlottetown a few years ago. Nothing has been done since then. They tell the people that are working when the issue is brought up that there is such a turnover of personnel at 911 that the new ones coming in don't know.
Senator McInnis: Have there been any incidents?
Ms. Drummond: There are always incidents, yes.
Senator McInnis: I know but as a consequence of the delay.
Ms. Drummond: Yes.
Senator McInnis: Have you reported those?
Ms. Drummond: Yes. Everybody is aware of it. I spoke about it last fall when the Search and Rescue Secretariat had the training in Charlottetown.
Senator Enverga: I notice that you were having some issue about 911, Ms. Drummond. This was a few years ago. Have there been any changes lately? Is there any sort of coordination now between the 911 and the 1-800 numbers? When you phone 911 I am hoping they have a button or an attendant that says 1-800 or it goes there directly. Is there anything like that right now?
Ms. Drummond: No, they call the first responders who are the fire department and the RCMP. We haven't met with 911 since that initial meeting a few years ago.
Senator Enverga: It is something that we should be looking at. I mean 911 should have a button that says marine or on land or something like that.
One of the speakers earlier today mentioned 911. They thought it was not a good way for emergency calls to be done by your having to dial a 1-800 number. When you are in panic mode I don't think you can dial the first four numbers at all. I think we got your message. I mean 911 is an important number.
On another note, have you ever had an incident where you have an issue with our Coast Guard about who will be responsible for a particular incident? Have you had any incident where you have to say that you cannot do this job but you have to do that job side?
Ms. Drummond: We always have a choice whether we are going to do it or not. It is an individual decision. Of course we all have the gene that we are going to go but if things are too dangerous they want us to tell them because they don't want to have to send out someone to look after us or to look for us. It is always our decision but I don't know of any time when we didn't go.
Senator Enverga: Is that all your responders?
Ms. Drummond: Yes.
Senator Enverga: Do your volunteers have a beacon to tell them where they are?
Ms. Drummond: No, but we are hoping to get an AIS system for our members.
Senator Enverga: That would be good.
Ms. Drummond: What do you mean? When we are called?
Senator Enverga: When you are called. As soon as you try to respond you should have an individual beacon of your own.
Ms. Drummond: We should but all we have is a phone. They phone at home by cellphone or landline or they call the radio service, our call numbers.
Senator Enverga: We are hoping that it will be enough. Do you have GPS app on your cellphone that shows where you are?
Ms. Drummond: No, we haven't gone there yet.
Senator Enverga: I think you should look into it.
Ms. Drummond: It would be a good idea because our vessels move around depending on the fishery. Even though a home base may be in Alberton they could be fishing in Surrey or wherever. That would be a great asset. It really would.
Senator Enverga: Check out the GPS application anyway. It tells where you are at a certain point. I think that will be a great tool. Hopefully your cellphone is waterproof. You just want to make sure about that. I know Samsung 7 is waterproof but they cancelled it.
You mentioned earlier, Mr. Pelot, that you were doing a shipping analysis on the location of certain Coast Guard ports. In your initial analysis have you figured out the distribution of ports? What do you think about the distribution of ports? Are they in the right place? Do you have an initial analysis of those things?
Mr. Pelot: That is a good question. We have never actually input all of the Coast Guard bases in Canada. We have done only regions because specific issues come up. We could just say where are they now and where could they be. We haven't actually done that. It is not that hard for us to do.
On pages 5 and 6 is one example of what you are asking but more at the regional level. One of my current students is showing in the top picture where all the Coast Guard vessels on the East Coast are now. If you optimized based on some criteria which would be the best response and the best coverage that is the bottom picture. The table on the previous graph shows that you could improve the response time by about half an hour on average. You could improve the primary coverage, which means a SAR vessel within reach given a time limit. We put six hours.
You can go from the current arrangement that 85 per cent of the incidents in this area can be reached within six hours by a SAR vessel. If you move the vessels a bit the way we suggest then it would be 92 per cent. There is a bit of room for improvement.
Then I put a disclaimer here saying that this was a study with input from the Coast Guard but not an actual consulting project. There may be parameters missing there. A few percentage points here and there might be important for lives. Every bit helps. It is not like the stations are completely in the wrong place or anything like that.
Senator Enverga: What will it take for you to have a final study? Do you have enough funding or enough people to do it? What is the timeline?
Mr. Pelot: I have a mandate. With the Coast Guard I get occasional projects for specific questions. The last one was on the northeast of Newfoundland where they want to put a new station there. They gave us a few candidate locations to compare. That was a two-week study because my grad students already know how to do the calculations and we have some data. I know that is not the question you are asking but those are usually the kinds of studies I do for the Coast Guard. I don't do what is going on in Canada.
I have applied for grant money from NSERC in the next few years I can do a bigger study asking where are all the DND resources. I know people at DND have done that for air SAR. They didn't do the ships; they just did air. We are doing the ships and we haven't done it countrywide. I have a plan to do the whole picture and ask how they would rearrange things at least in theory but I haven't done that yet.
Senator Enverga: But you have a big idea on the Maritimes part, right?
Mr. Pelot: Yes.
Senator Enverga: Have you presented it to our Coast Guard?
Mr. Pelot: Yes, but only on regional problems, not a countrywide perspective.
Senator Enverga: I hope we get those results because they will be of help when we discuss all the issues.
Senator Munson: I am curious to know whether there are like-minded studies or risk analyses being done at UBC or the University of Victoria. Has the Coast Guard asked somebody like you to do that sort of thing too? We are going to be heading out that way and it might be helpful to know that.
Mr. Pelot: As far as I know I am the only one in the country who does this. I didn't show pictures here, but we have done a lot of studies on the West Coast, the Arctic and the East. We did most on the East initially because we were working with the Maritimes SAR group and we got their data. We have done a lot on the West Coast, looking at the Kinder Morgan expansion, Kitimat and Bella Bella. We have done a lot of those already.
There are people at the University of Victoria that I collaborate with like Rosaline Canessa because there are people there who know the waters much better and understand the implications of marine protected areas and shipping noise. I collaborate a lot with people out there.
Senator Munson: I was just looking at Ms. Drummond's testimony. She said that at one time when Squadron 413 was located in Summerside. I remember the days when Summerside was a very active base and not much is happening there. It is felt that there should still be a helicopter available for search and rescue there. It would make much more sense than Trenton.
In your analysis would you support this? In the risk analysis it makes sense but from an academic and a practical point of view does it make sense to support Ms. Drummond's call or recommendation to reinstate this base?
Mr. Pelot: I could count how many studies we have done for the Coast Guard as opposed to the grant based ones where I am also continuing the methods. There aren't actually that many.
I was involved with the needs analysis in 1998. There was an update and then there was the last one a few years ago. Then I did this lifeboat station. I would say out of all those major decisions on boats coming in or out, adding helicopters or moving bases, I have only been asked to study a small fraction of them. I don't know what fraction. Maybe it is 5 per cent or10 per cent. What I am doing is not a standard operating procedure. It is ad hoc. I think they could be used somewhat more.
Senator Munson: Ms. Drummond, what is preventing the government from doing that, from being more practical in that way and at least having a helicopter based in Summerside? What do you think is preventing that? Who made that decision? Why? I mean this is an essential part of search and rescue.
Ms. Drummond: We move a lot today.
Senator Munson: We seem to be eliminating different essential aspects. The argument being used by the Coast Guard and the rest is that it can be done from Greenwood, not on the island or in other parts of Atlantic Canada.
Ms. Drummond: I don't know what the answer to that is. It is just that they feel, I guess, that 413 can handle it. There is time lapse by the time they get the bird in the air and over to where we are. Certain times of the year we feel there should be one on Prince Edward Island, especially around the time of dumping. They call it dumping in some places; we always called it setting. I can't answer that. I don't whose decision it was or why.
Senator Munson: It is had an effect obviously as you say in terms of search and rescue, but it is something we will have to pay attention to in our report.
I have another question for the professor. In doing all of this what is the biggest gap in your estimation in search and rescue in Atlantic Canada?
Mr. Pelot: In Atlantic Canada?
Senator Munson: The Maritimes.
Mr. Pelot: Not the Arctic.
Senator Munson: We can throw in the Arctic too, I suppose.
Mr. Pelot: The Arctic is a big gap in one way because it is so hard to deal with but such a small volume of traffic. It is a scaling issue. I haven't been asked to assess that, to go find the biggest gap. Certainly that issue in the northeast of Newfoundland has been identified. We have done a bit of analysis on it. There seems to be opportunity there to have better coverage.
I don't know if you mean a spatial gap but given the age of some of the vessels it is a good thing fleet renewal is happening. When they have a planned vessel out of service or even unexpectedly they try to use one vessel to cover two regions. I know that is a bit of a stretch.
Senator Stewart Olsen: For the record I agree with you, Jim. I am starting to shake my head on a lot of this lack of attention to certain areas and a concentration in other areas.
For your information, Ms. Drummond, when I was recently in Scotland on a tour we visited an auxiliary lifeboat station because they are considered extremely important and are well respected. They told us that they had a visit from their official Coast Guard at least once a month, if not more, where they ran small sessions. They met with everyone and talked and identified. Do you see any reason why we couldn't do that and at least keep everyone updated?
Ms. Drummond: I think it would be a wonderful idea.
Senator Stewart Olsen: Professor, I am just looking at your map on page 6 where you have the placement of the vessels and then the optimal arrangement. I notice there is a concentration on southern Nova Scotia where there would be a good presence of U.S. Coast Guard as well but very little placed in the Passamaquoddy area or the Bay of Chaleur.
When you were doing this, did you or your students do any research with the U.S. Coast Guard to see if that would be optimal? We could put vessels down there but if there is a doubling up that seems to be kind of a waste of resources.
Mr. Pelot: The short answer is no, we haven't. There is a good opportunity there. The U.S. Coast Guard has a research capability internally. They also partner with universities in the U.S. I have met with most of those researchers at conferences and read their papers. They have somewhat similar methods. They have the same thing. They don't have access directly to Canadian incident data or the posture of the Canadian vessels.
I think there is a good opportunity to say let's just share data and forget the boundary for a moment and see what the total coverage is like. It hasn't been done as far as I know.
The Chair: Certainly our being here in Nova Scotia for the past couple of days has been a learning experience of different aspects of the Coast Guard. We realize a lot of work is being done to improve and enhance the Coast Guard system. We hope we are a part of it. Your testimony today will provide us with some positive avenues that we can take forward. Thank you for your time here today.
(The committee adjourned.)