Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 27 - Evidence - November 21, 2012
OTTAWA, Wednesday, November 21, 2012
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 6:45 p.m. to examine and report on the legal and political recognition of Metis identity in Canada.
Senator Vernon White (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good evening. I would like to welcome all honourable senators and members of the public who are watching this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples on CPAC or the Web. I am the chair of the committee. The mandate of this committee is to examine legislation and matters relating to Aboriginal peoples of Canada, generally. Today, we will continue to explore Metis issues, particularly those relating to the evolving legal and political recognition of the collective identity and rights of the Metis in Canada.
This evening we will hear from two groups. The first is Métis Nation Quebec, which will be followed by Métis Nation of Canada.
Before hearing from the witnesses, I would like to introduce the members of the committee who are present this evening: Senator Nick Sibbeston from the Northwest Territories, Senator Larry Campbell from British Columbia, Senator Jacques Demers from Quebec, Senator Dennis Patterson from Nunavut, and Senator Nancy Greene Raine from British Columbia.
For the first hour, members of the committee please help me in welcoming from the Métis Nation Quebec, Mr. Aubin and Mr. Lachapelle, both spokespersons for their organizations.
We look forward to your presentations. Thank you for coming. Following your presentation, we will have questions for you.
Claude Aubin, Spokesperson, Métis Nation Quebec: Mr. Lachapelle does not speak English very well, so he will address the —
The Chair: We have simultaneous translation, if that helps.
Mr. Aubin: That is okay.
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for inviting us to this committee because for us it is like a new beginning. It is something for which we have been waiting for a long time. To us, it is a kind of recognition.
I would like to start by saying this, to put you in mind of what we want to convey to you as to who we are as Metis people in the Province of Quebec. For us, the Metis are the spiritual writings, living parchments of any great peace or marriage between the First Nation and the European peoples. The Metis are living physical and spiritual treaties, sealed in DNA. I am saying this is because I would like to tell you a story; the way that we do things here is to tell stories.
I brought with me something that was never brought outside the confederacy when we gathered in Wabanaki. It is called the Great Peace of Montreal. This box in front of you is the treaty box of 1701 — the original box. As it is written at the front: 1-7-0-1.
For us, the Metis, this is the beginning of our true history. We know that when the French gathered with the First Nation people at the time, they knew that something would happen. There was a political genius who could foresee all kinds of things to come to this land and he knew that he had to do something. He knew that those French-speaking people would not leave; they would stay, so he knew he had to form an alliance.
I am that treaty today as a Metis. The thing is that many people are wondering why Metis people hold such items. It is because it reflects who we are. Just imagine, this thing was made 311 years ago. It reflects the speeches that were given at the time among the First Nations. They were saying that your people would marry our people and there will be a brand new nation of people born. You are talking to a descendant of those people.
Many times, the Metis in the East are confused with the Metis of the West because sometimes the history is not clear. We have difficulty seeing that history has a beginning; it does not start in the middle. Starting to join this history together brings a greater understanding of who we are as Metis people. We are not only people of mixed ancestry; we are people with cultural continuity, and here is the living proof of that cultural continuity.
Besides that, I brought one of the medals of the royal proclamation. I brought a medal of the 1757 treaty made between the British and the forefathers of my mother, Huron Wendat. Here is a medal that was given to my Metis ancestors from the war of 1722, just before the British tried to invade the French. My people joined in force with them, because they were our allies and because they were also our relatives.
This story is a long, old story. When we leave this place I want you to really see who we are. Forget about my blue eyes or my lighter skin or my white hair. Listen to what we will say to you to make you understand how connected we are as Aboriginal people.
When I talk about this, I have to relate to my own ancestors, such as my grandfather. My great-grandfather signed Wabanaki treaties. His name was Ambrose St. Aubin. They define him as a tall, blond guy with blue eyes. That is what he was because his father married a Passamaquoddy woman — Maliseet. He stayed there and he helped his Aboriginal First Nation relatives into the wars or into life.
When I go to my territory, to the Wabanaki territory, which is in Quebec and New Brunswick, I do not have to do a genealogy to tell me who I am. I have a cultural continuity of what I am as a Metis, what my father was, my grandfather was, my great-grandfather was and, when I go to the confederacy, they know who I am and they are waiting for me to bring these things. It is very important.
When I go down and I stop in Tobique and I talk to the Nicholas'. They are related to me. They know who I am. I am not a Maliseet. I am a Metis and they know that. We have always been Metis. When I arrive at the confederacy and speak about the box and the detail, they know what it is all about. When I talk to others as I come in, they know who we are; they have known it for a long time.
As Metis people, this is our connectedness with First Nation people, but we always stayed in that march. My grandfather from my mother's side was Huron Wendat. They did not ask him for his genealogy. They knew who he was because of his family, also. However, the thing is that he was a Metis because in 1852, when they started to create the reserve system, the ones who would not comply with the Indian Act had to stay out. He was a Martineau because his mother married a Martineau, and then they stayed in the 40 arpents, as we say in Quebec. However, they knew he was a Metis also and they knew he was tied in with the community, but he had to always see himself as a Metis. He did not want to be; he owed respect to his mother and father. That is what he was.
You can see the connection. From there, also, they elected him a chief so he could sit on the council and talk about the people and the relatives who live outside the communities. The thing is that those communities developed outside the First Nation communities and developed their own entities, their own cultural perspective, and that was the beauty of it: We were who we were; we were respected for what we were.
Unfortunately, today, everyone wants to look at that in a different manner. Everyone thinks that we have to go through genealogy to define who we are. My wife is Cree from Saskatchewan and, if she had to go through the process of going through genealogy, I do not think she would be recognized under the Indian Act. However, under family clans, everyone knows who she is. It is the same thing with me as a Metis. We are always intertwined so closely. That is what being Metis is all about. We are so intertwined all the time with First Nations that they like it or not as a secret. Sometimes that pleases them, sometimes it does not please them, but that is what I can convey to you about what being Metis is all about.
Larry Chartrand and Dr. McGregor addressed you on very important legal issues. I do not want to go there. I want you to remember that the Metis of Quebec came here to try to expose who he is by tying himself with his people, all his relations. That is what makes me what I am. Never forget that. I am not a Metis because I have a native ancestry in my family; I am a Metis because I am a native person that has non-native ancestry in his genealogy. However, I owe respect to that, because this is the one that made me.
If Senator Lovelace Nicholas was here today she would understand what I am talking about. Senator Lovelace Nicholas comes from the same Aboriginal community as my father. Her relatives and my relatives have always been friends. Some are First Nation people and strongly identify with it and some are Metis.
I will stop there because I just wanted to point out the importance of that; what defines us is our cultural continuity as Aboriginal people.
[Translation]
Claude Riel Lachapelle, Spokesperson, Québec Metis Nation: Thank you for having us here. I would like to thank the honourable senators and the entire team.
It is important to understand that having a Riel here, in Ottawa, is a little funny from an emotional perspective. As my mother said, only one person in the family was successful, and he was hanged. Yes, that is, in fact, my family.
Why am I here? Because I was an actor and witness from the very beginning of the contemporary history of the Aboriginal peoples, the Metis in Quebec. That was in the early 1970s. There have been many developments in this file, not the least of which was that, since the Supreme Court decision in the Powley case, a number of organizations have claimed or said they are Metis in Quebec. For us, that is an affront because there are barely 1,500 or 2,000 of us in Quebec. Our families are directly connected to our families in the west, in Manitoba and in Saskatchewan. These are our families, our cousins.
It is very important to understand that, even if people have mixed blood, they are not necessarily Metis, because we have always kept our family clan and our culture. We do what we can, and we also speak Michif. We were told this; we learned it from our parents, from our grandparents and from our great-grandparents. The Metis in western Canada are all from Lanaudière, Quebec, from places like Terrebonne and Saint-Gabriel-de-Brandon. It is all closely tied to the fur industry with the North West Company. That is an undeniable fact, and we cannot change it. We have always maintained our family clans.
We have always been close to the First Nations. We have always been distinct, but we have always been close. In recent years, this was perhaps one of the mistakes we made, as Metis in Quebec, because we had families within the First Nations, and we wanted to live the Metis experience with the Indians. But when Bill C-31 arrived, we realized that we were not half-breeds, but Metis. We had lived outside the communities. When the bill appeared, we were considered Indian Metis. We did not want to be Indians. We are Metis.
Even now, I have family who live on reserve and who experience this discrimination. When it suits them, the band councils say that they are Metis, and when it is does not suit them, they say that they are white. This has been going on for 350 years, and there are very few of us.
We could talk at length about this. Since the Powley decision in 1992, plenty of people in Quebec have claimed to be Metis in order to get land and income tax rights. I can tell you that the Metis in Quebec cannot claim land rights because we have no land. The land belongs to the First Nations.
If one day we need to make land claims, we will do so with the First Nations because we have always been squatters. You need only look at history. It is a little different with the Metis in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. That is the motherland for Metis in Quebec. That is our homeland.
So, it is important that Claude Aubin and I have the privilege and the opportunity to give you this information, which is extremely relevant and I thank you very much for this opportunity. Once again, I will not hide the fact that we are still being forgotten. The Government of Quebec is currently in court with the Metis organizations. We are following the situation. One of the Metis cultural traits is that we are observers. We are not fighters. With this situation, we are wondering what we can do.
So we are here tonight, and we have the opportunity to explain to you who we are and explain about our family clans and our language. And if we have managed to help move things forward, to make ourselves better known and to help you understand who we are, Mr. Aubin and I will have accomplished something this evening.
I am ready to answer any questions you may have.
The Chair: Thank you. We will now move on to questions, starting with Senator Campbell.
[English]
Senator Campbell: Welcome. I am interested that you have proof going back to 1701, which is something that I do not believe we have heard while studying this issue. Perhaps it is because you are, I believe, the first Metis that we have heard from Eastern Canada.
My first question is, when Mr. Lachapelle speaks, there does not seem to be any gap between Metis from Red River and Metis from Quebec and they are cousins. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I did not get that feeling when we heard from the other Metis group. I am having difficulty understanding that disconnect.
Mr. Aubin: I will lower my tone because I thought I was in a lodge doing a presentation to the confederacy. What you are saying is quite interesting, but again it comes back to the importance of history. We also have to educate ourselves. What is happening is that we are making big moves with western Metis. For example, right now we are negotiating a unity pact with the Metis of Saskatchewan and they have started to realize that their families and our families are the same.
They have also started to realize, by learning a little bit more about the beginning of Metis history, that those Dumonts and Riels that went westward were already Metis when they left. They are learning that they left for the same reason that some left the Prairies to go to Batoche ended up in Lac La Biche and went further all the time; it was to try to find a safe place.
The beauty of it is that many of them came back. The Gariépys came back. Some of the Riels came back and some of my family came back. Not all the Metis families went westward, but there was always one.
The thing is that there is beauty in this. When we received those medals last week for the War of 1812, we were all together and it was beautiful. People from Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec were side by side and we all recognized ourselves.
It is just a question of time. I have great faith that the Metis nations will be part of the Métis National Council, which we consider as the Metis Nation of Canada. The Metis nations of these four provinces are extending their hands. They are starting to see the importance of bringing together the big family.
Senator Campbell: Do you think it could be much more powerful? For instance, I see that we have Mr. Fequet, from the Métis Nation of Canada. Why would he not be sitting at the same table as you? Why would we not have the most powerful portion, which would be all of you, sitting here together? I actually get it now after listening to what you have to say, but that is not what we have heard. I wonder why we do not see the same thing as you describe with the awarding of the medals last week.
[Translation]
Mr. Riel Lachapelle: I would like to emphasize something. We have more and more contact with people out west, including Saskatchewan. I am, in fact, a Riel; that is my family. But there are other families as well. There are the Chartrands, the Gariépys, the Morins; they are my families as well. These are first cousins once removed who live there. There was a break. Batoche was a phenomenal shock for the Metis. It is fair to say that it was also controlled with the Catholic Church and the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, which just mixed the Franco-Manitobans in with the Metis. It was not good to be Metis.
Without telling the whole story again, there was some fear, some insecurity, and there was an entrenchment. That is the current situation. When you talk about the Chartrands; listen, I would really like the president of the Manitoba Metis Federation to see this because he is my cousin, he is my first cousin once removed. I would like to talk to him about this and say hi to him. You know, it is a little like the Acadians. Let us take the Acadians from New Brunswick and the Acadians of Louisiana. They are the same Landrys, the same Arsenaults and so on. There is a shared history.
We were recently speaking with people from Saskatchewan who said there was a problem because, after 150 years, we came to Quebec and arrived in Lanaudière. Why were they there? Because there was the North West Company with McTavish, and so on. We are not the ones who are saying this; the archives are there, the history says so. There are not many of us in Quebec — maybe 1,500 — and we were still a small group of forgotten people. We are renewing our family ties. I will not deny that it is still moving, because we tell ourselves that it is our nation, our people. We still speak Michif, out there in Saint-Laurent (MB) or here in Quebec, it is the same language. The few Metis who are here, we are directly connected to the west, simply because of the fur trade, of the North West Company with the west. These are the same thing. Except that there are, of course, political issues, issues of language, and so on. But it is a start.
There is also one very important concept to understand. In the early 1970s, there was the Confederation of Indians of Quebec and we formed the Laurentian Alliance of Metis and Non-Status Indians. There were very few Metis. There were a lot we called the C-31s, who won their Indian status. When the legislation was adopted, they got their band membership back, but us, the true Metis, were close to 10 or 15 per cent of those. Those who were leading the Laurentian Alliance of Metis and Non-Status Indians, they were the ones we called the C-31s. They changed the organization and called it the Native Alliance of Quebec. But us, the true Metis, we were once again bumped and, for political reasons, Ottawa formed the Native Council of Canada. That was when they formed the Metis National Council. But us, the true Metis, we were flooded by what we called the C-31s. We, our people in the west, said that they were still playing Indians and that these were not Metis. Do you see the headaches this is causing us? Do you see why it is important for us to be here to demystify all of this?
Last month, we were recognized during a medal ceremony, for the Metis and the War of 1812. That was the first time we were with our families from Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Manitoba did not exist in 1812, but this was still our family. Saskatchewan did not exist in 1812, but they were our family as well. With that, we are now starting to clarify all of this.
And we are using this platform. I will say it again: we are very proud and very pleased to be able to tell you about this history. This goes back to 1701. We did not find it at Winners; it does not say "made in China" on the box. We have our families, we have our ties and, now, people from Saskatchewan, among others, are coming to Quebec and telling us that something needs to be done because, when we look at our genealogy, there is a break, so we are coming to Quebec. What we are seeing is fabulous; it is passionate. It is an incredible page of history. Imagine what the Acadians experienced.
[English]
The Chair: Other senators want to ask questions, and I do not want to lose the opportunity to ask more questions. If you can come to an end, I am okay and, if you are at an end, I am okay as well. Thank you very much.
Senator Demers: Your voice is good when you are passionate. I respect that; so you did not talk too loud.
[Translation]
I was listening attentively. I will ask you a few questions, but try to put it all together, please. Do you feel at home in Quebec? That is my first question.
Are you neglected — perhaps that is not the right word — because you are French-speaking Metis? Do you feel that way? Because often, when you are francophone, what happens in the west, perhaps it is not accepted. I do not know and that is why I am asking the question.
I see that Mr. Aubin is smiling, but do you feel that you are really at home and accepted in Quebec? Do you feel that, compared with English-speaking Metis, in English-speaking Canada, that you are accepted? How do you feel about that?
Mr. Aubin: We do not feel respected as Aboriginals in Quebec or by the Government of Quebec. Because there is a major dynamic that has to be understood and that was raised by Senator Campbell.
I need to say that, we, the Metis in Quebec, have kept the old French. We speak like people from Saint-Laurent and we understand each other. But with the Metis in the west, with all due respect for them, because this is the discussion we are currently having, a lot of them have assimilated into English. A number of them are what we call "country-born", meaning that their background is anglophone and not francophone. They do not have a connection with the French-speaking Metis. It is an anglophone connection.
Can you imagine tomorrow, the Metis Nation of Canada recognizing the Metis Nation in Quebec, what that would mean? That means that we would have to bring back Michif. Because there is Michif-French and Michif-Cree. It can turn any political dynamic on its head. It is like when the First Nations one day decided that their language was their language and to really identify who they are, they had to master it again.
The Metis are in this transition. Now, when the Metis in Saskatchewan or Manitoba come and see us, they tell us that they are eager to have us come and visit because when we come and visit, we will not draw our guns anymore; we will be able to talk.
They understand. But there is resistance to that. It is a matter of repatriating their identity and setting things straight. Identity is also history. And history means connections, family ties. If you go to Saint-Laurent, they speak Michif-French. If you go to Saskatchewan, there are some places, some communities, where they speak Michif-Cree. But it is all Michif. There are also Michif languages assimilated into English.
I am convinced that, if you take all of it — the time, the history, the cultural reconnection — it will all fall into place. I have been there for 25 years, explaining the situation and getting people to talk, getting our people to talk, realizing that I also need to protect our people.
You also need to understand that one thing is important in Quebec. Everyone will say, "Oh, but I have a grandmother in my genealogy, so I am Metis." That I have difficulty swallowing.
The way I see it, being Metis means that there is a cultural continuity, a link and a bond; there is a history. It is not a matter of money for me because I do not have any. We have been organizing for 25 years, and we do not have a cent. But we are still there. It is not a matter of benefits or taxes, as Mr. Riel said, which is why it is important to take back who we are.
To answer Senator Campbell's question, we cannot say that tomorrow, we will start a Metis nation in Canada, and anyone who claims to be Metis can "come, give me $300, we'll give you a card and away we go." I am sorry, but I say no, categorically. I will never accept such a thing. I cannot.
I have lived, I have been mistreated, I have suffered all kinds of things. I suffered from being Metis all my life. But someone will come and say that they have a grandmother in their background and, voilà, they are Metis? Come on! That person will have to show me and prove it, not just through the genealogy.
In Quebec, Senator Demers, a lot of people recognize that they have Aboriginal ancestors in their background. But the question they need to ask themselves is whether that makes them Metis. That is the difference.
[English]
Senator Sibbeston: I come from the Northwest Territories, which is far away. I come from a Metis family that originally came from the Red River Valley in Manitoba. This is my first encounter with Metis from the far East.
When you look at the way our history developed, as the French and British people came into our country in various parts, invariably they met with First Nations people and after a while got to like each other and mixed. That is kind of the birth of the Metis. It is a phenomenon that happened that is unique to Canada, I think.
In reading history in the North, we have had different explorers from Britain who had come into Canada, generally from the St. Lawrence area. They worked their way west and up to the Northwest Territories. These are people like Mackenzie, and the big river in the north is named after him, and Franklin and Simpson. In the history books, in terms of the group of people that these explorers had, there are some they called Canadians and I just assume these would be the half-breed or the Metis people that the explorers brought with them. They were good and hardy, the courier de bois type of people who were familiar with exploring and willing to go far away from home and be away from their countries for years and years. In our part, we would have seen or heard the Metis who were called Canadian. Am I right in thinking that part of these explorers' groups who were called Canadian were really Metis people from the east, from Upper and Lower Canada, as it were?
[Translation]
Mr. Riel Lachapelle: You are talking about history. Let us say that there are two histories. When we talk about the French and the British, we talk about victories. When we talk about us, we talk about massacres.
There are two histories. It is important to pay attention to the official history books. If we look at the history of Batoche, for example, we would say that it was Prime Minister MacDonald who sent English-speaking troops to subdue the Northwest rebellion. If you take look at the archives, the first battalions that left to fight the French fact and the Metis in Manitoba were not anglophones. There were two regiments: the Voltigeurs from Quebec and the Fusiliers Mont-Royal, in Montreal, with big shows and flags with major pomp from the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste. It is not Riel who is telling you this. Look at the history books and the archives. The famous flags of the Montreal Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste are currently displayed in the salon of the Voltigeurs of Quebec regiment headquarters.
Could we at some point put the puzzle back together, speak to each other again and discuss things?
To answer Senator Demers' question about how we feel in Quebec, I would say we feel a little cheap. We do not know anymore. We are not Indians; we are not Quebeckers. We are Metis. Yes, I speak French, but I can speak to you in Michif because my language is Michif. Where do we fit in this country called Canada?
It is all very well for you to take section 35 out of the Canadian Constitution, which says that Aboriginal peoples are Indians, Inuit and Metis. But where do we fit in there?
Mr. Aubin: We are not Quebeckers just because we speak French. The Metis of the Prairies speak English because that is the language of the province. In Quebec, the Innu speak French and not English; the Montagnais speak French and not English. This is because our situation is that we are living side by side with the people of Quebec.
[English]
Senator Sibbeston: I certainly do not want to be critical. This was just my idea. This is just an intuitive sort of thing. I get the general feeling that the French were more amenable, or the French are more like the native people, you know. This is just from my life experience.
Historically, when the British came in with the Hudson's Bay Company and so forth, people like Simpson, the Governor, and his nephew, Thomas Simpson — for whom a little town is named in the North because he went up in that area — it seemed that the British interaction with the native people was not as thorough. They did not mix, and they did not marry. Maybe they had mistresses. There are stories about the British having mistresses, but invariably they went back to Britain and left their wives. I get the impression that the French kind of stuck together and were more open to forming relations. It is the same with Scottish people. A lot of the people who came into the west and north, the Hudson's Bay got them from the Orkney Islands, and lot of them were Scottish. Since it was a similar environment, they were very tough. They all intermarried and were willing to marry native people.
I get the impression that the French had very good relations with the native people. Do you find that from your own history and experience?
[Translation]
Mr. Riel Lachapelle: Unfortunately not. We are much more accepted these days in Quebec, but the anglophones have always been more open to us than the francophones, even in the past. It is important to say that. There was the chauvinistic attitude came from the French.
The Catholic Church, which is the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, was against the Metis in Manitoba. Today, anglophones are much more open than francophones in Quebec, especially when it comes to sovereignty. We do not agree at all. We are here. Without getting into a political debate, we are not pleased about this.
These days, Quebec knows that there is the Metis fact in Quebec, and they shut us up and do not want to recognize us. We went there. But to clearly answer your question, the openness — and I do not want to say that it has always been perfect — from the anglophones has always been by far better than from the francophones.
Mr. Aubin: For political reasons.
[English]
Senator Raine: Thank you for sharing your stories and your history, which I find fascinating. I am not surprised, because I knew all along that the voyageurs and explorers who came out and settled the West came from Quebec and came from a very strong people. It only made sense to me that these people were special because they had the best of two cultures. I congratulate you for continuing with your culture and having so much passion for it.
At the end of this study, we will write a report with recommendations. I am becoming more and more convinced that our recommendations are not about entitlements and registries and things, but about the culture and the importance of the culture and the history. Somehow this history has to get celebrated in all of Canada, which is not the case or has not been the case. When I grew up and went to school, for instance, there was maybe a half a page in my Grade 8 textbook about Metis people — really nothing — and now I recognize that the founders of most settlements in British Columbia were Metis.
I want to ask a few questions that we have been asking along the way. I would like an overview of your organization. How many members do you have? Do you have a membership criteria and do you have a registry of members?
Mr. Aubin: Yes.
Senator Raine: How many members do you have?
Mr. Aubin: Roughly 2,000. That includes adults and children.
Senator Raine: What are the membership criteria for the Métis Nation Quebec?
Mr. Aubin: We have a citizenship code, so it will be quite exhausting to go through the details of it, but it is all based on family clans. We know our families; we know who we are and we go from there. As you know, regulations sometimes required more in the past. We are trying to get away from that as we start to understand that genealogy will not resolve anything on our own identity. Our own identity is that when we know who we are and who our family clans are, and I think that is what we are leaning towards now.
Senator Raine: Do you have membership cards, or do you just know who you are?
Mr. Aubin: We have citizenship cards, yes, and it is once in a lifetime; it is not something that you have to renew. It is not a membership. It is citizenship.
Senator Raine: With the young people, you teach them about what it is to be a Metis citizen?
Mr. Aubin: That is right.
Senator Raine: That is great. Your organization engages in activity to promote and protect Metis culture, does it not?
Mr. Aubin: That is right.
Senator Raine: Give an example of some cultural activities you do.
Mr. Aubin: First, we have no funding, so we are self-served. We do the things we have always been doing. If we have to organize something, we mobilize our people. The cooks do some things and others do the shelters. We do not have hotels, so we build lodges in the bush. That is what we do. When we have our gatherings, we do it around a fire outside in the bush. People bring food and we have our meetings that way. Whatever paper and pencils we have, we try to use. We go with consensus all the time.
This is one aspect of what we do, and we do other things. We participate in festivities when we can, because it is very difficult for us to travel outside, for example, to do something because the cost for gas and so on is phenomenal. We are very selective and we try to protect that. When we are invited, we go and do it.
Senator Raine: Is there a place that is special for regular gatherings?
Mr. Aubin: We now have a place near Quebec City, in St. Raymond de Portneuf. You can see it on our website.
The Chair: I have to cut you off, senator. I have two more questioners and we are closing this off in five minutes for the next witness.
Senator Campbell: I will not go again.
Senator Raine: Who owns the place identified?
Mr. Aubin: It is private land. It is basically my land and someone else's — a friend's land and a neighbour's. We have about 50 acres.
Senator Raine: Without funding, you manage to keep coming together and celebrating?
Mr. Aubin: Yes.
Senator Raine: I congratulate you for that and I am very happy to hear that. Thank you very much.
The Chair: I apologize. Senator Meredith from Ontario came in late and I forgot to mention it. He is the next questioner.
Senator Meredith: Thank you so much, gentlemen, for appearing before us this evening. I was intrigued and impressed, Mr. Lachapelle, by the Back to Batoche gathering this summer in Saskatchewan. I was exposed to it as someone participating with the members of this committee in order to learn what transpired with Louis Riel and so forth. There is a spirit of coming together.
The Constitution Act, 1982, recognized the Metis people as part of the Aboriginal recognition. What do you think the effects of this recognition have been to the Metis people?
[Translation]
Mr. Riel Lachapelle: To my knowledge, when this happened in 1982, under the Constitution Act, I was in politics, in an organization called the Laurentian Alliance of Metis and Non-Status Indians. When we learned that it was Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau who had included section 35, we were flabbergasted. We did not believe it. It was a blessing from above, a shock. Finally!
Things evolved politically. There was a rupture with the Native Council of Canada. There was Bill C-31 which wrecked that vision, and we took back our identity. And 20 years later, we are starting to speak with our young people in the west.
I will give you a very brief example, and this may answer Senator Raine's question with respect to our nationality and our affiliation. We would like to define our membership. We spoke about a Gariépy. When we met with the people in Saskatchewan, that Gariépy, who was from the Quebec Metis nation, had the Batoche photo showing the prisoners. It is currently exhibited at the National Library.
You see the Indians, you see Big Bear, Poundmaker; you see the Metis with chains on their feet, and he said, "There, that is a Gariépy. Those are my three uncles! It was my grandfather's brothers who were there." Do you understand?
When we presented these documents to the people of Saskatchewan, they said, "Hey, that is true." There is a Metis nation emerging. We come back to section 35, and we are starting to present ourselves as such. This is why we are here, Mr. Aubin and I, to tell you about this. You tell from how we are speaking that we are moved and that we are proud. And, because of section 35, that was a miracle for us. That was the start. And we thank you for that.
Mr. Aubin: That is a very good question.
[English]
What it did is it was just like a dream come true. How I could say it to you is that I will say something, and I do not like saying this but I have to say it because it is part of my process.
Senator Meredith: As long as it is clean.
Mr. Aubin: Maybe I will not say that here today, but I will say this. I tried to become an Indian. In order for me to be recognized as an Aboriginal person I had to surrender my identity at one time. However, when that came in, it gave me new hope, new faith. I hoped to the point that when we started working with organizations such as the NCC, again we were losing the Metis agenda. I said, no, not again. I said we have to organize as Metis, so we have to create a confederacy within the Metis, a Metis confederacy within the Métis National Council. We did that. We did that because we wanted to bring a Metis agenda. Then we realized it was very hard to do that with First Nation people because they have their own things. They were all in Bill C-31.
In Quebec we did the same thing, so we realized we have to organize the Metis nation. Let us stop calling the names. We are a nation of people; we are a Metis people, Metis nation. We did that.
It gave us hope that we did not have to become Indian. I became a chief of a First Nation community in Quebec. I helped to reorganize the Maliseet Nation of Quebec, the nation of my father. It did not make me a Maliseet. I felt so bad when my grandmother asked me, "What are you doing? You are not a First Nation person; you are Metis. Remember that. If your grandfather was there, he would be really upset with you."
That is when I understood. I am very emotional right now because you are bringing back what I had to suffer to get through all this. Now I can smile and say there is hope. I know that the Métis National Council, when they understand the importance of bringing aboard the Métis Nation of Quebec among their ranks, they have to. They cannot not do it. What did this Constitution do to us? It divided us for a little while, but now it is bringing us all back together.
The Chair: I have one more questioner. It will be a short one, and hopefully a short response, as we do have another witness.
Senator Patterson: Mr. Aubin, you mentioned the membership request with the Métis National Council. I understand that the Quebec Métis Nation requested membership in a letter of 2008 to President Clem Chartier.
Mr. Aubin: That is right.
Senator Patterson: You are optimistic it will happen. Have there been discussions? Where are you at with that request?
Mr. Aubin: We sent this letter on principle. When you are in politics, you do not go backwards; you go forward. We not only wrote that letter in French and English, but also in Michif. We got an answer from them and we realized that they were not ready to look at it right away.
I do not blame the Métis National Council, because they remembered our presentation at the royal commission in 1993. They remembered that we did not follow them when they split from the Native Council of Canada.
We were caught in a Catch-22. We were caught entre l'arbre et l'écorce when we were at the NCC. Most of the organization was under the control of First Nations people and Bill C-31 or non-status Indians wanting to reach their status.
Remember what I just told you; we made mistakes in the past. It is un chemin de parcours; ce sont des erreurs de parcours. Now we realize that we can send a letter to the president of the Métis National Council, but there are also others. There is the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan and the Métis Nation of Alberta, and there are also communities. The best way is to start from the bottom and go up, so we changed our plan and went from the bottom up.
We started to initiate a conversation with the Desjarlais in St. Laurent and with the president of Métis Nation of Saskatchewan and other people who had always seen us around. That is how we did it. Where it is at is that it will happen. One way or the other, I know it will happen, because they need us. They cannot disconnect themselves from us.
The Chair: Thank you very much for your presentation, Mr. Aubin and Mr. Lachapelle. We truly appreciate you finding the time to be here tonight, and thank you to the committee for the questions. We will take a five-minute break to allow these witnesses to leave and the new ones to move to the table.
Senator Sibbeston: I want to recognize Bob Stevenson who was at one time the president of N.W.T. Metis and is now living in Akwesasne.
The Chair: Our next witness comes to us from the Métis Nation of Canada. We welcome Bryce Douglas Fequet, founder of the Métis Nation of Canada.
If you have opening remarks, please proceed, and we will follow up with questions.
Bryce Douglas Fequet, Founder, Métis Nation of Canada: I am honoured to be among you most distinguished people who have done so much to better our country.
I would first like to say thanks to our grandmothers. Without them, we would not be here. My grandmother delivered me into this world. I was not born in a hospital; I was born at home.
I would like to give thanks to the First Nations and the Inuit people. They were the indigenous people of this country prior to European occupation. After that, the Metis people became who we are, and I think we have come a long way. There have been many struggles in the past, but moving forward it is all about cooperation and working together to find good resolutions and solutions that will benefit all people of Canada, including the Metis, First Nations and Inuit.
My mom is a proud Canadian, and she identifies as a Canadian. I identify as a Metis Canadian with Inuit bloodlines.
One week from today will be my fifty-fourth birthday. I just called my dad and said, "Dad, do you remember what happened on the day I was born?" He said, "Yes. I brought home one porcupine, two rabbits and seven partridges."
I live in a remote part of Quebec, Basse-Côte-Nord, right on the Labrador border. We still have no roads. We can no longer go out and collect sea gull eggs. We had no chickens, and we used to eat sea gull eggs in the spring. We would eat porcupine, beaver, muskrat, squirrels and birds, but today it is illegal for us to do any type of harvesting because of the rules and regulations that are imposed by the Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec.
That is who I am. I choose to identify myself as a Metis Canadian, and I am very proud to be a Metis Canadian. I have given you a red booklet. I wanted to share this with you because it is important for me that you know where the Métis Nation of Canada came from.
I am a stonemason by trade. I have worked in Alberta, British Columbia and the Maritimes. It is more difficult to work in Quebec because you need a CCQ card, but I found a job in Quebec. I am the mayor of my municipality.
[Translation]
I am the prefect for the Golfe-du-Saint-Laurent RCM.
[English]
I decided that in order for me to be at home near my mom and dad I needed a job, and the only job I could find was working in politics trying to better my people, so that is what I chose to do. It was a bit of a fight but, like any challenge in life, we do what we have to do to pay the bills to look after our families.
I am very proud to represent my municipality, the municipality of Bonne-Espérance with a population of 842, which includes Middle Bay, Rivière-St. Paul and Old Fort. Old Fort has some historical value. It is where Jacques Cartier landed in 1534. It is a relatively unknown sector of our country, but it has the oldest history in our country.
Outside my village, there is an island called Eskimo Island. I do not know the date of it, but there was a battle fought there between the Montagnais Indians with the French and the Inuit, and 1,000 Inuit lost their lives in that single battle. The next major battle happened in Battle Harbour in Labrador, and that was the turning point for the Inuit people, because they were defeated. They did not have guns. They just had spears and arrows.
My good friend Mr. Aubin was here previously. I know him very well. I have worked with him. I have worked with Bob Stevenson. Bob has guided me in many different directions. I have sought advice from other people to guide me on my journey. I do not know where it will take me, but I know today it brought me here.
The Métis Nation of Canada came about because of some frustration on my part. I have a citizenship with the Metis nation of Quebec, but we are not recognized in Quebec. I took my citizenship card with me. My first card I received — I will back up a bit — I received my first Aboriginal Status card from OMAA. I am sure you are familiar with OMAA. I was proud to get that certificate of Aboriginal status and I cried when I got it. I keep it in my pocket; but when I decided to leave Ontario and go back to Quebec, I was told, "You have to give that card up. You have to join the Native Alliance of Quebec." They said I had to give up my Aboriginal status card with OMAA. I said, "No, I do not. I am very proud of that card."
Things did not work out well with NAQ, so I discovered Claude Aubin, the Quebec Métis Nation, and I joined with them to see if I could help my people using that organization, and we did. I helped to register over a thousand members with Quebec Métis Nation of the Lower North Shore to gain their Aboriginal status through genealogy work.
However, things were not moving the way I wanted them to go. In 2008-09, I went out west to work. I am a stonemason by trade. Out west I saw all the things that the Metis people were doing. I was so excited to see the different energy, the advertising on the radio to go get training for a trade and get an education. It sounded great, but in Quebec there was silence.
I came home in November 2008. I got on my computer and I did a Google search for Métis Nation of Canada. There was no Métis Nation of Canada. There was the Métis National Council, which I am quite familiar with, and the Congress of Aboriginal People. I know all the organizations that are there. I thought, if there can be a Métis Nation of Quebec, there can be a Métis Nation of Ontario; the Labrador Metis Nation has changed its name; there is the B.C. Métis Nation; now we have the B.C. Métis Federation. Why do we not have a Métis Nation of Canada, so that all people, from all parts of Canada, could be joined together in unity and work together for the same purpose?
I got on my computer and I did a search with Corporations Canada. I paid $22 or $21 for the title, Métis Nation of Canada. I had 90 days in which to fill out my application, submit my bylaws and send them in with a $200 cheque payable to the Receiver General for Canada, which I did. At the end of 45 days, I called Corporations Canada, because they had cashed my cheque, but I did not have an answer. I got to speak to the examiner and there were some deficiencies in my bylaws. We worked together; we changed the deficiencies in my bylaws. I mailed them back to Corporations Canada. On March 16, 2009, retroactive to January 21, 2009, I received, as you see in the document, our letters patent for the Métis Nation of Canada. That is how the Métis Nation of Canada came to be in a legal sense.
Since then, we have done a little website. I have managed to do this without much money. I do not make a lot of money, but I do steal a little money from my piggy bank now and then. I just put it out there. I put our website on the Aboriginal Canada Portal and people started getting in touch with me from all across Canada. Today we have people joining the Métis Nation of Canada, not just from all across Canada, but even from the United States of America, people who were born and lived in Canada but now work in the United States. There is one common thread in all these people: They are proud of who they are. Most of those who joined the Métis Nation of Canada are working people. There has been the odd one who says, "If I get my card, I do not have to pay taxes, right?" No, sorry. There are some people who say, "If I get my card, I can hunt and fish, right?" Sorry, no.
We live in a democracy and there have to be rules and regulations. I believe in fairness to all people. If you do not take care of your resource, you will find you have no resource. I came from the Lower North Shore of Quebec where I saw almost the extermination of the cod fishery. Now they are fishing pelagic species with big nets. If they do not stop that, we will lose more species. I am not in favour of having a card to hunt and fish. There have to be regulations in place.
I am hoping through the Métis Nation of Canada that we will be able to bring all of the Metis people together and the Metis organizations, regardless of their political differences, to work together in an alliance to the betterment of all the people and to the betterment of Canada. That is all I have to say.
The Chair: I will ask the first question. I am trying to get an understanding of how many members belong to your Métis Nation of Canada now and from what parts of Canada are they from, or are they mostly from your own community?
Mr. Fequet: Actually, I did not work my own community too much. I did not try to take any of the membership from the Quebec Métis Nation, so I did not lobby my people at all. I am the mayor of my municipality and they would not want to see me make my efforts under another hat. My duty first is to the people who elected me to be their mayor.
Having said that, on the weekends and evenings, I do work a fair amount on the Métis Nation of Canada. We have over a thousand members registered by single membership with Métis Nation of Canada, but we also have the community of Batoche Local 51, signed on as a community, and also the Quebec Métis Nation until two nights ago. They were a part of the Métis Nation of Canada, but I got a call from them two nights ago and they took me off their executive. I am not disappointed, but it is kind of strange.
Anyway, if I had to do it by community and by single membership, I would say we are in the range of 3,500 to 4,000 people. I just had a meeting with Lynne and Art Haines of the Ontario Métis Family Records Centre in Bancroft. They have a membership of over 10,000. They want to work with us together, because they have done an enormous amount of work for the Metis people.
The Chair: I am back to the same question, though. How many members would you have now?
Mr. Fequet: I would say just as single individual members who signed through application, about a thousand.
The Chair: Those are from how many communities?
Mr. Fequet: It is all across Canada, not by community, just by individual people, wanting to be part of a national registry.
The Chair: How many of them would belong to another organization?
Mr. Fequet: Quite a few belong to the Métis Nation of Alberta, Métis Nation of British Columbia, Métis Nation of Saskatchewan, Quebec Métis Nation of Quebec, Métis Nation of Labrador, Nunavik, Yukon, and Newfoundland. They are joining from all across Canada and they are coming in weekly.
The Chair: Your goal, if I am correct, is to bring all Metis into one national organization, the one that you are now working with?
Mr. Fequet: I would like to bring all the Metis people into one national registration with the Government of Canada. I do not believe that the Métis Nation of Canada is there to say the Métis Nation of Ontario should not exist or the Métis Nation Quebec should not exist. I believe all these organizations have a right to association under the Charter. I just believe we need to work together in an alliance in order to better the people.
There are some people out there who do not want to belong to an association or an organization. They just want their individual right to identify as Metis.
Senator Patterson: Thank you very much, and welcome to the committee. I would be interested further on the question of memberships in the Métis Nation of Canada and if there are criteria that they are required to meet to become a member.
Mr. Fequet: They supply their genealogy and they show proof that they have an Aboriginal ancestor, First Nation or Inuit.
Senator Patterson: In your view, how does the Métis National Council relate to your organization? Your goals are to bring everyone together. Do you have a relationship with them?
Mr. Fequet: Yes. In March 2009, I received a letters patent. In April 2009, I went to Alberta to work. I lived and worked in Ottawa for 18 years so it is my second home. I went to Sparks Street to the Métis National Council and I offered to give them my letters patent. I said, "You are an organization that is recognized by the Canadian government and receive funds from the Canadian government. Why do you not take the letters patent of the Métis Nation of Canada, put them together and include all people?"
We know we have an historical definition; the Métis National Council is the homeland, and I do not dispute that entirely. That is where the Metis nation idea under Louis Riel and Gabriel Dumont is, and that is what they fought for. That is the metropolis of the Metis national identity. Having said that, Metis people did not begin in the Western provinces; they began on the East Coast with the first contact of the Europeans when they came there.
I think the Métis National Council has done a lot of work. I just do not agree with their definition of who should be included in the Metis nation.
Senator Patterson: It sounds like a very unique area where you live. Could you tell us a bit about your own genealogy, if I may ask?
Mr. Fequet: Certainly, you may. My name is Bryce Douglas Fequet and here is my birth certificate. On my birth certificate it identifies my father and mother. My father and mother's marriage certificate identifies my grandparents. My grandparents' certificate identifies their grandparents, and so forth down to 1856 when Pierre Leon married Katherine Louise, who was the daughter of Louis the Eskimo. This is a study I would like to leave with the clerk. That is the first generation of Metis Inuit on the Lower North Shore of Quebec. This was done by Paul Charest of Laval University. There is more documentation if you need me to provide you any other information that I have.
I did my genealogy through marriage certificates and I only discovered those about 12 years ago. We had no idea. We lived in a past where we were told that people talked bad about Inuit and Indian people. It was the same thing when I lived in an English community; they talked bad about the French people.
[Translation]
Now I speak French. It is very important for me and to work with the Government of Quebec.
[English]
My ancestry came from France. I am a descendant of the Huguenots and we were under religious persecution in those days. My journey began a long time ago. My family has had struggles throughout our lives. We are still here and smiling, and proud Canadians.
Senator Patterson: I am fascinated about what you say about your Inuit Eskimo origins. I understood from your opening remarks that the Inuit lived in that area and were driven back or retreated back because of conflict, as you described.
Mr. Fequet: Yes.
Senator Patterson: It was before that conflict that your maternal origins began?
Mr. Fequet: It began after those battles, yes. My grandmother lived with Inuit Pakuashipi. She learned all the medicine trade and was a very smart grandmother.
Senator Patterson: Thank you.
The Chair: I have one question as well. What relationship have you been able to develop with the Government of Canada from an acceptance perspective?
Mr. Fequet: I would say fair. I send letters to every Prime Minister we have, and I have received responses that we have received your information and we will reply; but I do not get a second reply.
I applied for funding to Heritage Canada under the Aboriginal Representative Organizations program that used to be with Heritage Canada but now has gone to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.
I have been offered money and denied money, so I have an ongoing relationship with the Government of Canada. It has been a difficult struggle, but not one I am willing to give up on. I have met a lot of wonderful people in the government at Mr. Duncan's office. I met Sherry Whitehead just last year and she gave me all the information. You must meet certain criteria in order to get funding from the federal government.
In the past, most of the letters I received from the federal government said that I should speak with the Métis National Council and get their endorsement. Good luck, if you come from Quebec. It was not going to happen.
It is the same thing with the Congress of Aboriginal People. I approached them and tried to talk to them. They do not want to meet with me either.
I tried to meet with the Assembly of First Nations. I met with Mr. Richard Jock and Peter Tinsdale and I am proud to say I received the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal on Remembrance Day. I got to meet Shawn Atleo and I introduced myself. I got to meet Terry Audla and Mr. Clement Chartier and I introduced myself. They know who I am now. I have met them face to face. I am hoping going forward that perhaps my presence here tonight will help me a little bit to make some inroads in getting these organizations to work better together. They need to work better together. They are not working well together.
The Chair: I want to thank you very much for coming tonight and presenting to us.
Senator Raine: Thank you very much for your presentation. I think it is interesting that you would want to step out and start an organization by yourself when there are already so many organizations. However, I can certainly understand from what you have said why you believe it is necessary to have an organization that is open to membership by anyone who self-identifies or who has genealogy.
The report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People stated:
It is primarily culture that sets Métis apart from other Aboriginal peoples. Many Canadians have mixed Aboriginal/non-Aboriginal ancestry, but that does not make them Métis or even Aboriginal. . . . What distinguishes Métis people from everyone else is that they associate themselves with a culture that is distinctly Métis.
Do you agree with that statement? If yes, why?
Mr. Fequet: I do not disagree with it. We are living in 2012 and the people who lived back in the 1850s had a certain culture. Today we live in Canada with a modern culture. We do not go out on horseback and shoot buffalo; we go to Walmart and shop. It is important to practise your culture. I do not think it should be forgotten. I think it is important in the historical sense to retain as many of our languages as we can. A lot of First Nations are losing their languages. It is important not to forget who you are and practise your culture.
Senator Raine: Be proud of your heritage.
Mr. Fequet: Be proud of your heritage. Be proud to be Canadian. We are proud of you for your Olympic achievements.
Senator Raine: Section 35(1) in the Constitution Act recognizes and affirms the existing Aboriginal and treaty rights of the Aboriginal peoples of Canada. Some of the rights that have been claimed by Canada's Aboriginal peoples include harvesting rights and Aboriginal title to land. Do you feel that the members of the Métis Nation of Canada should claim Aboriginal or Metis harvesting and land rights?
Mr. Fequet: I cannot answer for all the people. I can only give my personal opinion. Again, I would say we live in 2012 and we are living in a new time. I do not like when people go out. I have seen people go out and put nets in the salmon rivers and destroy the salmon. I have seen people go out and kill the caribou by the truckloads. I do not agree with that. It has to be regulated. Whatever they do for hunting and fishing and harvesting has to be regulated and to the point we do not destroy the resource. I think conservation is first and foremost.
Senator Raine: You would be in favour of one set of harvesting regulations for all Canadians?
Mr. Fequet: Yes, but they would differ depending on the region where you live. I live on the East Coast so I would probably want to be able to go and catch a few lobsters, which is something the people in the Prairies could not do. However, I am sure they would like to go and harvest what was traditionally theirs.
Senator Raine: When people apply, are they applying for membership in the Métis Nation of Canada association?
Mr. Fequet: Métis Nation of Canada, yes.
Senator Raine: Is it membership or citizenship? How do you define it?
Mr. Fequet: We did the bylaws according to Corporations Canada and they say "membership." That could probably change.
As a member of Metis Nation Quebec, I have citizenship. I am a citizen of Canada. Maybe that word should be clarified going forward to pick the right words to make sure you cross your t's and dot your i's. The proper word is debatable. I cannot decide for all Metis. "Citizenship" sounds more appropriate than "membership" because we are not a club; we are a people.
Senator Raine: My understanding is that if you are applying for citizenship and you are granted citizenship, you might have a one-time fee to pay for that citizenship. Normally, an organization depends on regular dues to keep it going. How is the Métis Nation of Canada financed?
Mr. Fequet: It is through our membership. When we began, it was not to make money. Our membership is for five years, which is the maximum we can go with a picture ID. We charge $30 for five years for an adult applicant, $20 for a senior, $15 for a student, and $5 for a child. We would like to do something that we put in the objectives of our corporation. It does not show on the papers, but on the back sheet at Annex 2, one of the objectives of the corporation of the Métis Nation of Canada is to maintain a registry of Métis Nation of Canada membership with the Government of Canada; or we could say "citizenship" if it needed to be corrected.
It is important that the citizenship or the membership be done in partnership with the Government of Canada, much the same as First Nations, with a status card issued by the Government of Canada. I will use membership, because that is what we use right now; and that is what they want, too.
A lot of people are telling me that they want the Government of Canada to be part of the registration process. We heard a lot of issues when we looked at the time when we thought that maybe the Canadian Standards Association was going to determine who is Metis and who is not. The Metis people want to determine for themselves who are Metis. We need to do that in a joint venture with the Government of Canada. The Métis Nation of Canada would like to be part of that team.
The Chair: We have heard a lot of that. A number of Metis groups, certainly organizations, want to be involved in the discussion around determining who is Metis and who is not. Hopefully, we will try to find some resolution or have some discussion at least that we have heard across Canada. I thank you again for coming.
I would ask the members to stay as we have to go in camera. Thank you very much.
(The committee continued in camera.)