Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Finance
Issue 34 - Evidence - June 18, 2015
OTTAWA, Thursday, June 18, 2015
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, to which was referred Bill C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015, and other measures, met this day at 11:30 a.m. to give clause-by-clause consideration to the bill.
Senator Joseph A. Day (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, as you are no doubt aware, Bill C-59 has received second reading in the chamber and has been referred to us for consideration. We have had the opportunity to do a pre-study on Bill C-59, and so the first question I should ask is this: Are you prepared to proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration at this time, or would you like hear from further witnesses? Clause by clause; is there consensus on that?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: It is agreed, then, that we proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measures.
There are three parts to this bill, but I will go through Part 1, and then we will do each division separately in Part 2 and Part 3. You may stop me at any time. If you don't know where we are or you'd like to make a comment on any of the divisions, let me know and you can get your comment on the record. If you wish to just say "on division," that will be noted as well. Of course, if you wish to present amendments, they will also be taken into consideration and we will vote on them at the appropriate time.
Shall the title stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed.
Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed; thank you.
Is it agreed, with leave, that the clauses be grouped according to the parts of Bill C-59 as described in the "Table of Provisions"? There are three parts.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you; agreed.
Part 1 is entitled "Amendments to the Income Tax Act and to Related Legislation." Shall Part 1, which contains clauses 2 to 28, pass?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Chaput: On division.
The Chair: Part 1 is accepted, on division.
Part 2 is entitled "Support for Families," Division 1 of which is entitled "Income Tax Act." Shall Part 2, Division 1, containing clauses 29 to 34, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
An Hon. Senator: On division
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 2, Division 2, "Universal Child Care Benefit Act," clause 35 to clause 40, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator Mockler: Unanimous.
The Chair: Unanimous, yes. There was no "on division" on that one.
We're now down to Part 3 and the infamous "Various Measures," honourable senators. Division 1 of Part 3 is entitled "Federal Balanced Budget Act," clause 41, and it has several of its own clauses. Shall that Division 1carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Some Hon. Senators: On division.
The Chair: On division?
Shall Part 3, Division 2, "Prevention of Terrorist Travel Act," clauses 42 and 43, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you.
Shall Part 3, Division 3, entitled "Intellectual Property," clauses 44 through to clause 72, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 4, "Compassionate Care Leave and Benefits," clauses 73 to 80 inclusive, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed.
Shall Part 3, Division 5, "Copyright Act," clauses 81 and 82, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed. Thank you.
Shall Division 6, "Export Development Act," clauses 83 to 86, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed. Thank you.
Shall Part 3, Division 7, "Canada Labour Code," clauses 87 to 93, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 8, "Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act," clauses 94 to 96, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall Part 3, Division 9, "National Energy Board Act," clause 97, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed, carried.
Shall Part 3, Division 10, "Parliament of Canada Act," clauses 98 to 152, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 11, "Employment Insurance Act," clauses 153 to 160, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 12, "Canada Small Business Financing Act," clauses 161 to 163, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried unanimously.
Shall Part 3, Division 13, "Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act," clauses 164 to 166, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried unanimously.
Shall Part 3, Division 14, "Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act," clause 167, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed. Thank you.
Shall Part 3, Division 15, "Immigration and Refugee Protection Act," clauses 168 to 176, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 16, "First Nations Fiscal Management Act," clause 177 to clause 205, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 17, "Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act," clauses 206 to 229, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried unanimously.
Division 18 is entitled "Ending the Long-gun Registry Act," clauses 230 to 231.
Senator Bellemare: I want to abstain because I feel it involves Quebec too much.
The Chair: All those in favour of this clause signify by saying "yea."
Some Hon. Senators: Yea.
The Chair: Contrary minded, nay?
Some Hon. Senators: Nay.
The Chair: Two against; and all the rest, four; abstentions, one. I declare this carried, on division.
Shall Part 3, Division 19, "Privilege for Supervisory Information," clauses 232 to 252, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried unanimously.
Shall Part 3, Division 20, the last division, entitled "Sick Leave and Disability Programs," clauses 253 to 273, carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Some Hon. Senators: No.
The Chair: Carried, on division.
Shall Schedule 1, which is at pages 155 to 157, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall Schedule 2, page 158, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed. Carried.
Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed. Carried.
Shall the bill carry?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: On division.
The Chair: On division.
Honourable senators, there have been no amendments proposed, but do you wish to append observations other than what will be said in the chamber?
Seeing no request for observations, then, shall I file at the earliest opportunity the report that this bill has been considered and carried by this committee, on division?
[Translation]
Senator Chaput: I have a question, Mr. Chair. Will we be able to discuss this in the Senate?
The Chair: Yes, certainly, during third reading, which will probably begin tomorrow. Tomorrow, you will be able to discuss this at third reading.
Senator Eaton: Until midnight.
[English]
The Chair: All those in favour of the motion to present the report? Contrary minded, if any? Motion carried.
We will file this at the earliest opportunity once we have a chance to organize things.
Senator L. Smith: Chair, can I make one comment?
The Chair: Absolutely.
Senator L. Smith: I apologize for my tardiness. I just wanted to make sure that the members of the committee have all the necessary information.
I just got the background on the RCMP, because they came and spoke about the issue of the long-gun registry. I dug up some facts through my assistant, who did the work.
The RCMP stated that they provided the requester — who wanted the information back in 2011, right at the original request — with the relevant information and fully met the requirements of the access to information request. The requester paid $1,150.
This is interesting: In total, 27 fields in the Canadian Firearms Information System relate to the registration of firearms, the registry of which 15 include personal information such as the person's name and address. The information he received represented over 8 million rows of registration data that included the 12 fields mentioned earlier, as well as 4 additional data fields to add more context. If the RCMP was to print this package, it would have been approximately 171,000 pages long.
The purpose of Division 18, obviously, is to correct the original registry legislation, Ending the Long-gun Registry Act, which should have had a clause related to the Access to Information Act.
My only point is that there are two sides to the story. I think it's important that if we present even an opinion against, let's present both sides of the story and then everyone else can make their own decisions. That was the purpose of giving this to the committee.
[Translation]
At least everyone will be informed.
[English]
I don't have a problem with partisanship, but I want to make sure that we have a balanced discussion based on what actually took place, and there were two sides to the story. That's all. It wasn't to contradict anything you said yesterday; it was just to provide the other side of it so that committee members have it in case they did not.
The Chair: I don't particularly want to get into a debate on this. I don't want you to get caught offside. But the commissioner, Suzanne Legault, has said that when the information was made available to the requester, he complained that it wasn't fulsome and adequate. She investigated it and agreed, and therefore went back and asked for more information. I think that's all part of it.
Senator L. Smith: I understand that. I just wanted to make sure that all the information was put on the table. Everyone has a perspective, and I just want to make sure we add it to the perspective, period.
Senator Wallace: I remember when we had the RCMP in before us on that matter. They were asked that specific question, whether they felt they complied with the request.
The information officer has a different view of it, but I think it's important that if there is going to be any discussion in chamber, that should not be overlooked. The RCMP clearly stated that, and what Senator Smith has provided us is further information to support it.
The Chair: I hope that all of us will take an opportunity to speak on this or other parts of Bill C-59 and that this is brought out. Please feel free to show the sequence of events on what transpired.
Senator L. Smith: I just want to reiterate. I'm not trying to create a storm. I think the chair does a fantastic job and our committee is a super committee. On such a sensitive issue, I just wanted to make sure that everyone was informed that there are two sides, and whatever side you want to be on is your own personal choice.
The Chair: As with most of the things here.
Honourable senators, I'd like to thank you all very much for your full cooperation in getting through this wonderful piece of legislation. As a mere token of Jodi's and my appreciation, I would like you all to have one of these wonderful sweets to remember the great times we have had with Bill C-59.
I anticipate that this will be filed this afternoon.
[Translation]
Third reading will begin tomorrow afternoon. Are we sitting tomorrow morning or tomorrow afternoon? Normally, we sit in the morning.
Senator Rivard: We sit at 9 a.m.
The Chair: At 9 tomorrow morning.
Senator Rivard: We do not have the agenda, but we will sit at 9 a.m.
The Chair: So, we can begin, and we will probably look at the first or second clause.
[English]
Anything else?
Senator Mockler: With regard to the information brought forward by the deputy chair, who will table that or speak on that?
The Chair: I'll leave that to you to work out. As soon as I report this back, I feel my major obligation is done. I don't think part of my obligation is to coordinate speakers at third reading. I hope everybody speaks at third reading on this bill. There are a lot of things in here.
Is there anything else to be brought before this committee? Thank you very much.
(The committee adjourned.)