Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue No. 6, Evidence - Meeting of June 22, 2016
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 22, 2016
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, to which was referred Bill S-205, An Act to amend the Canada Border Services Agency Act (Inspector General of the Canada Border Services Agency) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, met this day at 11:16 a.m. to give clause-by-clause consideration to the bill.
Senator Daniel Lang (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Welcome to the Standing Senate Committee National Defence and Security. We will begin by going around the table introducing the senators. I am Senator Dan Lang. To my left is Adam Thompson, the clerk of the committee.
Senator Jaffer: My name is Mobina Jaffer; I'm from British Columbia. To my right is Dominique Valiquet, the analyst of the committee.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: Senator Claude Carignan from Quebec.
Senator Dagenais: Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Beyak: Senator Lynn Beyak, Ontario.
Senator Meredith: Senator Meredith, Ontario.
Senator Moore: Wilfred Moore, Nova Scotia.
Senator Day: Joseph Day, senator for New Brunswick, beautiful southern New Brunswick, Kennebecasis Valley.
Senator White: Are you going to tell a story, senator?
Senator Day: I'm going to be home soon.
Senator White: Vern White, Ontario.
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues. We're here to consider clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-205 and also to give an outline with respect to the work that will be done over the course of the summer and the beginning of September.
To begin with, colleagues, I would like to move in camera to discuss a number of items, and then we will come out of the in camera session in order to deal with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-205.
(The committee continued in camera.)
(The committee resumed in public.)
The Chair: I'd like to call this meeting back to order and welcome our viewers. Once again, for everybody's information, we are going to be doing clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-205, An Act to amend the Canada Border Services Agency Act, (Inspector General of the Canada Border Services Agency) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.
This is a private members' bill that has been sponsored by Senator Moore, and we have had hearings in the past on this particular piece of legislation and are now going to go into clause-by-clause consideration of the bill.
Is it agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-205, An Act to amend the Canada Border Services Agency Act (Inspector General of the Canada Border Services Agency) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall the title stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 1 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 2 carry? There are a number of amendments coming forward. I understand Senator Carignan has a number of amendments.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: I move:
That Bill S-205 be amended in clause 2,
(a) on page 3, by replacing lines 22 to 44 with the following:
"15.5 The mandate of the Inspector General is to consider any complaint made under subsection 15.6(1).''; and
(b) on page 4, by deleting lines 1 to 10.
[English]
The Chair: Perhaps, senator, you could give us an explanation of what that amendment does. On each amendment, could you give a short explanation?
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: The goal is to ensure the inspector has the authority to consider the complaints made and to carry out verifications and inspections and make recommendations.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, senator.
Shall the amendment carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
I understand you have another amendment, Senator Carignan.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: Yes. The next amendment is related to the authority to launch an investigation when a complaint is made. I move:
That Bill S-205 be amended in clause 2, on page 4, by replacing lines 11 to 13 with the following:
"15.6(1) Any person who claims to be aggrieved by any act or thing done by the Agency may make a complaint to the Inspector General and, subject to this''.
[English]
The Chair: Shall the amendment carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
I understand, Senator Carignan, that you have another amendment?
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: Yes. Still concerning clause 2, I move:
That Bill S-205 be amended in clause 2,
(a) on page 7, by replacing line 39 with the following:
"(2) Subject to subsection (3), the'';
(b) on page 8, by deleting lines 32 to 37; and
(c) on page 9, by deleting lines 1 to 15.
The goal is to re-establish a mandate for inspections, recommendations and reports, as is the case in the incorporating acts of other similar organizations responsible for verifications and inspections.
[English]
The Chair: Shall the amendment carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator Jaffer, I understand you have another amendment.
Senator Jaffer: I have an amendment. Clause 2, pages 9 to 11.
(a) on page 9, by adding the following after line 39:
15.191 The Inspector General's decisions in respect of a complaint or an investigation under this Act, and the findings and recommendations contained in the Inspector General's report referred to in subsection 15.11(1), are final and are not subject to appeal or to review by any court.'';
(b) on page 10, by deleting lines 5 to 42; and
(c) on page 11, by deleting lines 1 to 43.
The Chair: Colleagues, shall the amendment carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator Jaffer, I understand you have another amendment.
Senator Jaffer: Clause 2, page 10.
THAT Bill S-205 be amended in clause 2, on page 10, by replacing line 4 with the following:
"$5,000.''.
The Chair: Shall the amendment carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator White, I understand you have a motion to put forward as well.
Senator White: Clause 2, pages 1 to 11.
THAT the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel be authorized to make any necessary changes to the numbering of the proposed sections contained in clause 2 and to all cross-references thereto.
The Chair: Shall the amendment carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 2, as amended, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 3 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 4 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 5 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 6 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 7 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 8 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 9 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 10 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 11 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall clause 12 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator Day
Senator Day: Just for those who might be watching this, all of those clauses that we just did, from clause 3 through to clause 12, are all consequential amendments that flow from the clause 2 work that we've just agreed to. Other acts and statutes needed some amendment, and that's what this has done.
It's taken a lot of work to achieve that. I commend the sponsor of this for the fine work that he's done in finding other statutes that are impacted by this.
The Chair: Just following on that, Senator Day, Senator Moore and Senator Carignan should be commended for the work they did on this bill. It's a very important bill, and it's long overdue in respect to the Canada Border Services Agency and the question of oversight. I'm sure they are looking for something that can be put in place to assist them in doing the job they are being asked to do.
Shall the title carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Shall the bill, as amended, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Is it agreed that I report this bill, as amended, to the Senate?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Colleagues, that brings us to the conclusion of the work.
Senator Moore, I believe you have something further.
Senator Moore: I would like to say something, if I could, chair, just to try to outline the importance of this work and this bill to Canadians.
I get letters, emails, from people who have had tough times at the hands of CBSA agents. I want to mention a recent one I received.
This gentleman returned to Canada, March 15, and he was segregated for secondary inspection at the Ottawa International Airport. He has made a request for information under the Privacy Act, and he has been frustrated everywhere he goes.
He's been told that he has been targeted, that he fits a profile because he's older, a white male, lives and travels alone and he's made several trips to South Asia.
He was also told he can expect similar treatment every time he returns to Canada, and he was called — I won't use the F-word — an "F drunk'' because he was in a faraway country, attending an Alcoholics Anonymous conference that he was doing good work at. This is how he was treated when he told them what he was doing there.
He made inquiries of CBSA for information about the interrogation. He wanted a copy of the transcript, a copy of the video, and he's been told they may not exist; they can't find them.
This is so typical of the frustrations that some of our citizens are suffering. I hope we can get this bill over to the house.
I know the minister likes some of it. I know in the new bill he has there's no provision for this type of complaint process, so I'm hopeful.
The gentleman who wrote to me said, "I want to let you know that the actions of you and your colleagues on the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence are supported and appreciated by one victim of the agency's arrogant and undisciplined behaviour.''
People are watching us, colleagues. I think this is important.
Senator Carignan, I, too, want to thank you for your work. I know that the amendments that you've brought forward took a lot of work to go through to get them lined up so they all make sense and get us where we want to be with the bill. I thank you for that.
Senator Jaffer: In light of what Senator Carignan and Senator Moore have done — and I'm sure all of us very much appreciate that — may I ask that we report it today, and that people assist so that we might get it through today?
Senator Day: There are amendments, so there has to be a report stage that's not normally there.
Senator Jaffer: That's right.
Senator Day: To try and get it through report stage and third reading is a bit of a stretch.
Senator Jaffer: It is, but we may have some downtime, from the way things are going. All I'm suggesting is if all of us get together and there is a possibility, we should get it through.
Senator White: This is great job by everyone. I really appreciate how hard everyone has worked on this.
Correct me if I am wrong, Senator Carignan, but with Bill S-225 last week, we were able to vote on it that day. We didn't have to put it over to the next day. So there is a possibility.
The Chair: Did you amend it?
Senator White: Yes.
Senator Carignan: That's possible, but we need unanimous agreement. I don't know if you will have enough time to report. We will see.
At the end of the day, I don't think it will make a big difference if they receive the bill today or when we come back. I think they will have enough information for the bureaucrats to be able to work on this bill during the summer break.
Maybe it's best to take the time to review, make sure that we don't have shells and that the product is perfect. This could be adopted when we come back in our first week in September.
I don't think that's a big issue. Our job is usually sober second thought, and we review those types of drafting mistakes. We want to make sure that it is perfect when it leaves here.
Senator Jaffer: I'm not disagreeing with Senator Carignan; I absolutely agree, but because Bill C-22 is being debated, and will be debated in the summer, if we can work on this, my desire is to get this through because then this can be discussed as well.
As you will remember, the minister said he will do consultations in the summer. I thought that would have more authority if we had this there too.
The Chair: I understand everybody's intent: to have it presented to the legislature. There are a couple of aspects to it, and one is just logistics and the ability to provide the house with the necessary amendments in both languages and the work of the clerk and other members of the administration to bring that forward.
Let's see where that goes, and then Senator Carignan and I will have a discussion, perhaps with Senator Moore, to see where we're at. We may be in a situation where we get the bill as amended into the house, but we have to consider the fact that it may be adjourned there, obviously, because some members may want to discuss it further.
Senator Meredith: Just for clarity, we are reporting the bill today, correct, as amended?
The Chair: We will try, depending on the logistics of the clerk's office and the ability to get all the paperwork done.
Senator Meredith: So it's not a guarantee?
The Chair: That's not a guarantee; that's correct.
Colleagues, is that clear? The meeting is hereby adjourned. Thank you.
(The committee adjourned.)