Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue No. 44 - Minutes of Proceedings - May 28, 2019
OTTAWA, Tuesday, May 28, 2019
(82)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 2 p.m., in room W110, 1 Wellington St., the chair, the Honourable Gwen Boniface, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Boisvenu, Boniface, Dagenais, Dasko, Gold, Griffin, McInnis, McPhedran, Mercer, Ngo, Oh, Plett, Pratte and Richards (14).
In attendance: Julia Nicol, Ariel Shapiro and Christina Yeung, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parlement.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on April 30, 2019, the committee continued its consideration of Bill C-77, An Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 43.)
WITNESSES:
Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces:
Colonel Stephen Strickey, Deputy Judge Advocate General, Military Justice;
Major Karl Lacharité, Special Advisor, Office of the Judge Advocate General;
Lieutenant-Colonel Geneviève Lortie, Director of Law, Military Justice - Policy.
The chair presided over the election of the deputy chair.
The Honourable Senator Gold moved:
That the Honourable Senator Mercer be deputy chair of this committee.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Dagenais moved:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence be authorized to examine and report on the circumstances that led the RCMP to lay, now withdrawn and unfounded, criminal charges against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, including the scope and nature of the involvement in that process by any other persons.
That, as part of this examination, the committee be authorized to call the Minister of National Defence, the Chief of the Defence Staff, Vice-Admiral Norman and any other witnesses that the committee may decide to invite.
That the committee submit its report by no later than June 20, 2019.
The Honourable Senator Mercer moved:
That the committee adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived.
After debate, the motion proposed by the Honourable Senator Dagenais was deferred as the last item of the agenda.
It was agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-77, An Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.
It was agreed, with leave, that on clauses that do not have amendments, they be grouped in groups of not more than ten.
It was agreed that the title stand postponed.
It was agreed that the preamble stand postponed.
The Honourable Senator Marc Gold tabled a letter from the Honourable Harjit S. Sajjan, P.C., M.P., Minister of National Defence.
The chair asked whether shall clause 1 carry.
The Honourable Senator Dagenais, moved that Bill C-77 be amended, on page 1, by replacing line 1 with the following:
"Whereas crime has a harmful impact on victims and on society;
Whereas victims of crime and their families deserve to be treated with courtesy, compassion and respect, including respect for their dignity;
Whereas it is important that victims' rights be considered throughout the criminal justice system;
Whereas victims of crime have rights that are guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms;
Whereas consideration of the rights of victims of crime is in the interest of the proper administration of justice;
Whereas the federal, provincial and territorial governments share responsibility for criminal justice;
Whereas the federal, provincial and territorial governments endorsed, in 1988, the Canadian Statement of Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime and, in 2003, the Canadian Statement of Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime, 2003;
Now, therefore, Her Majesty by and with the advice and consent of''.
After debate, the questions being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Griffin, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that clause 1 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-77 be amended in clause 2, page 3, by replacing lines 24 to 28 with the following:
"act on their own behalf, they may ask another member of the Canadian Forces to act on their behalf.''
After debate, the questions being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, Griffin, Mercer, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senator Richards — 1
It was agreed that clause 2 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clauses 3 to 6 carry.
At 3:36 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 5:51 p.m., the Honourable Senator Dasko replaced the Honourable Senator Griffin.
At 5:54 p.m., the committee resumed.
The chair asked whether clause 7 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-77 be amended in clause 7, on page 5, by replacing line 7 with the following:
"Charter of Victims' Rights in the Military Justice System.''
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Dasko, Gold, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-77 be amended in clause 7:
(a) On page 5,
(i) By replacing line 24 with the following:
"71.02 Every victim has the right to informa-'', and
(ii) By replacing line 32 with the following:
"71.03 every victim has the right to imforma-''; and
(b) On page 6, by replacing line 6 with the following:
"71.04 (1) Every victim has the right to in-''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Dasko, Gold, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-77 be amended in clause 7, on page 8, by replacing lines 16 to 30 with the following:
"71.16 (1) A commanding officer shall inform the victim of their right to have a liaison office appointed to assist the victim, unless the commanding officer is of the opinion that is not possible to have a liaison officer appointed for operational reasons.
(2) At the request of the victim, the Judge Advocate General shall appoint a military lawyer to be a liaison officer to assist the victim as probided for in subsection (3). In the event of the absence or incapacity of the liaison officer, the Judge Advocate General shall appoint another military lawyer to replace the liaison officer during that absence or incapacity.
(2.1) A liaison officer appointed under subsection (2) must satisfy the requirements established in regulations made by the Governor in Council, including all regulations in respect of required training for liaison officers, in particular or criminal law and victimology''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Dasko, Gold, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-77 be amended in clause 7, on page 8, by replacing line 34 with the following:
"the Code of Service Discipline;
(a.1) informing the victim of the various programs to which they have access;
(a.2) informing a victim of their rights under this Division;
(a.3) ensuring that a victim who leaves the Canadian Forces at any time is informed as soon as possible after their departure about programs in their province of residence that are available to assist them; and''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Dasko, Gold, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL.
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-77 be amended in clause 7, on page 11, by deleting lines 9 to 16.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Dasko, Gold, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that the clause 7, carry, on division.
It was agreed that clauses 8 to 16 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 17 to 26 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 27 to 36 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 37 to 46 carry.
It was agreed that clauses 47 to 56 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clauses 57 to 64 carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 65, carry.
The Honourable Senator Dagenais moved that Bill C-77 be amended on page 81 by adding the following after line 23:
"65.1 The Minister of National Defence must prepare and caused to be tabled before both Houses of Parliament, no later than 15 days after the first anniversary of the day on which section 7 of this Act comes into force, a report that sets out the impact and operation of Division 1.1 of the National Defence Act, particularly in respect of victims.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Dasko, Gold, McPhedran, Mercer, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that the clause 65 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 66 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 67 carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 68 carry, on division.
It was agreed that the title carry, on division.
It was agreed that the bill carry, on division.
After debate, it was agreed that observations be appended to the committee's report on the bill.
It was agreed that the chair report Bill C-77 with observations to the Senate.
The committee proceeded to consider a draft agenda (future business).
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dagenais:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence be authorized to examine and report on the circumstances that led the RCMP to lay, now withdrawn and unfounded, criminal charges against Vice- Admiral Mark Norman, including the scope and nature of the involvement in that process by any other persons.
That, as part of this examination, the committee be authorized to call the Minister of National Defence, the Chief of the Defence Staff, Vice-Admiral Norman and any other witnesses that the committee may decide to invite.
That the committee submit its report by no later than June 20, 2019.
At 7:47 p.m., the Honourable Senator Griffin replaced the Honourable Senator Dasko.
The Honourable Senator Griffin moved that the motion be amended by removing the word "unfounded'' and that the word "withdrawn'' be replaced by "stayed''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, Griffin, McInnis, Ngo, Oh, Richards — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Gold, McPhedran Mercer, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
At 8:04 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Mark Palmer
Clerk of the Committee