THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON LONG TERM VISION AND PLAN
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Monday, June 1, 2020
The Subcommittee on Long Term Vision and Plan met by videoconference this day at 2:30 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Shaila Anwar, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, welcome to the organization meeting of the Subcommittee on Long Term Vision and Plan. I see that we have a quorum. It’s my duty as the clerk of the subcommittee to ask if there are any motions for the election of a chair.
Senator Downe: I would like to move Senator Plett as chair.
Ms. Anwar: Are there any other nominations?
Seeing none, is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion? Please raise your hands.
I declare the motion carried. I invite Senator Plett to take the chair of this committee.
Senator Donald Neil Plett (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Anwar, Senator Downe and Senator Dupuis for your confidence in that.
I will simply go through the agenda that Ms. Anwar gave me this morning, which I’m sure you all have a copy of.
The next item is the election of a deputy chair. I’m not sure whether there were any discussions with the various groups about who should be taking the position of deputy chair, so I will give you a few seconds to see if there are any comments on that.
If there aren’t any, then I, as the chair, will make a motion that Senator Downe be elected as the deputy chair. Are there any other nominations?
Hearing none, are we in agreement that Senator Downe take the position of deputy chair? Ms. Anwar, you will see if hands are up; my hand is up.
Ms. Anwar: I see two hands raised.
The Chair: So I will declare Senator Downe elected as deputy chair. Thank you very much.
Going through to Item No. 3 on the agenda, it deals with senators’ staff. I have been on this particular subcommittee for a few years. In the past, the subcommittee allowed one staff person from each of the following offices — the Leader of the Government, the Leader of the Opposition, leaders of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, and the Speaker of the Senate — and these staff were allowed to be present at in camera meetings and included in the distribution list of documents unless otherwise decided by the chair and deputy chair.
If we are in agreement with that, I would like a motion to that effect.
Senator Dupuis, I see your hand. Are you making that motion?
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move that staff from the Senate leaders’ offices and the Speaker of the Senate’s office be permitted to attend in camera meetings of the subcommittee.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you very much, Senator Dupuis.
Is anyone opposed to that motion? Maybe if we work in the negative, it’s the easiest way for these calls. If nobody is opposed to that, I will consider that carried.
The next decision is regarding agenda witnesses and hearings. We need a motion that the chair and deputy chair be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the subcommittee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
We’re a small group, so we will be making a number of motions here.
Senator Downe: I so move.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Downe.
Nobody is opposed to that motion? Thank you. We’ll consider that carried.
Moving right along then, we need a motion to publish the subcommittee’s proceedings. If I could have a motion, please.
Senator Downe, I see your face; can you nod? Thank you. Senator Downe so moves.
Senator Dupuis, would you move:
That the chair, on behalf of the subcommittee, direct staff in the preparation of studies, briefing notes, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: Yes, I so move, Mr. Chair.
[English]
The Chair: Again, if no one is in disagreement, we may as well just take turns. Do I have a mover for the following motion:
That the chair and the deputy chair be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the subcommittee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work; and
That the chair and deputy chair be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the subcommittee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings, at its discretion.
Senator Downe: So moved.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Downe. We’re all in agreement? Thank you. Senator Dupuis, would you move:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the same organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I so move, Mr. Chair.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. This next one says optional, but we will move ahead with it:
That the subcommittee allow an audio recording of its in camera meetings . . . .
Senator Downe, would you move that?
Senator Downe: So moved.
The Chair: That really is the end of the agenda that Ms. Anwar has prepared for us, unless there is other business.
First, let me say that I look forward to working with both of you, as well as Senator McPhedran. We will probably be asking CIBA at some point to add one more member, one from the Progressive Senators Group. Right now, the only member from that group on CIBA — and that is a prerequisite — is Senator Munson. I suspect by the time everything is organized with all of the committees and now that the Progressive Senators Group is an official entity, they might have a couple of people on CIBA. I don’t know that; I don’t want to presume anything there. But Senator Munson has been on this committee for quite some time. He might be happy to come back on. In any event, that is business for the future. Regardless, I look forward to working with you.
Senator McPhedran has just joined; welcome. You missed all the fun stuff. We have elected me as chair and Senator Downe as deputy chair. We have gone through a number of motions. If you have the agenda in front of you, you could basically read them. They have all been accepted. We are at Item No. 9, which is other business and time slot.
Senator McPhedran, I was just saying I’m looking forward to working with all of you. I’ve been on this committee for a number of years. It is a very interesting committee, working with Public Works and the long-term vision for us here on the Hill. I will open the floor for a minute, Senator McPhedran, if you would like to make a few comments. I see Senator Dupuis’s hand up and I will recognize her right after, if Senator McPhedran wants to make a comment.
Senator McPhedran: Thank you very much. I’ve been in some waiting room somewhere. I couldn’t even begin to tell you where I was in cyberspace, but I’m very grateful for the assistance in coming into the meeting. It sounds like our platform is well created for the work that we’re going to do.
As a relatively new senator, I’m very much looking forward to being part of this process. Let me now turn it over to Senator Dupuis.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I have a question for you. Since you’ve been on the subcommittee for so long, are there any documents you think those of us who are new should look at, or is there any information on the subcommittee’s previous work you would like to send us?
[English]
The Chair: I would suggest the best way to do that is to ask our clerk, Ms. Shaila Anwar. You and other senators can deal directly with Ms. Anwar. I think she has all the information. She was our clerk with the last committee. She would certainly have a lot of documents. She can brief you very well on where we are.
As a matter of fact, senator, I will also need one of those briefing sessions again with Ms. Anwar because it has been a while since we met. We can do that individually or at our next meeting. She will be able to fill us in. Please, do not hesitate to contact Ms. Anwar, even on your own, to get any information that you might need.
Ms. Anwar: Senator Plett, I can also fill in members. This file has a tremendous amount of documentation. The Property Services Directorate has prepared briefing materials in particular for the new members but also for the chair of the committee. As Senator Plett said, it has been awhile since the subcommittee has met. There is a fair amount of catch-up to do.
You’re asking for documents. Senator Plett can confirm that you typically get a significant number of documents from us for this particular subcommittee. We will be pleased to send that to members. The plan at the next meeting of the subcommittee is to review those with senators. In the meantime, if after receiving that material you wish to have a briefing, I would suggest Caroline Morency, our Director General of Property and Services Directorate, would be pleased to answer your questions and provide you with information.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Anwar. I am in Ottawa today and part of tomorrow at least, perhaps all of tomorrow. I am meeting tomorrow morning with Ms. Anwar and Ms. Morency. We will be going over some of these issues. We’ll be going over how quickly we should call another meeting and with what regularity we should have these meetings from now until when we hopefully can all be back in Ottawa and do these things face to face. We’re not going to set the meeting today because I would like to have that discussion with Ms. Morency and Ms. Anwar first.
Is there a desired time of the day or a day of the week that we would like to target for when we have these meetings? When we met face to face, Thursdays at about 12:30 in the afternoon was when we typically had them. Obviously, doing this on Zoom maybe makes the time more flexible, and we need to consider that we’re operating in at least three different time zones, with Manitoba, Quebec and Prince Edward Island. We need to take that into consideration.
Would there be any specific desired time that we would either like to have the meetings or any times that are definitely not good for you? Ms. Anwar is giving me the information here. For the benefit of all of us, please tell us what you sent me in the chat there about Finance, Social and CIBA.
Ms. Anwar: Thank you, senator. Finance typically meets on Tuesday afternoons, Social Affairs meets late morning and afternoon on Wednesdays, and CIBA, when they do meet, do so on Thursday mornings.
Right now, we have the capacity to do one virtual meeting at a time. That should increase in the next couple of weeks, but we’re not quite there yet. So it would be outside of those times. And I also understand that you all have various caucus meeting considerations to take care of within that. All I would say is that window of time, because of the time zones across Canada, is a slightly limiting factor. However, I think we just have to account for Manitoba and the East Coast, so that gives a fair amount of flexibility. It’s a bit tougher when we have people in B.C. and on the East Coast, but Manitoba time to Charlottetown time shouldn’t be terribly difficult to accommodate.
The Chair: CIBA meets at 9 a.m. EST?
Ms. Anwar: 11 a.m. EST is typically when they meet, so it would probably be 9 a.m. for you.
The Chair: It would be 10 a.m., then, if it’s 11 a.m. EST. So they would meet 11 until 1?
Ms. Anwar: Typically, yes. So later in the afternoon would certainly be available.
The Chair: How much time do you need? If you have an hour in between, is that enough?
Ms. Anwar: That’s right.
The Chair: The meetings would be at the call of the chair — at least the next one for sure — and then we’ll decide further. Might I suggest that we try to target mid-afternoon on Thursday for our meetings and that would be the time that we would try? Let’s say 2 p.m. EST. Senator McPhedran, for you and myself in Manitoba that would be 1 p.m. For Senator Dupuis it would be 2 p.m., and for Senator Downe it would be 3 p.m. Would that work for everybody on the call?
Okay, hearing nothing in the negative, Ms. Anwar, we’ll perhaps set that as our desired time.
Ms. Anwar: Sure. No problem.
The Chair: Then after Shaila, Caroline and I have a meeting tomorrow, I’ll make sure that you get updated on what that meeting is about and what we have discussed. Then we will call a meeting. It would not be this Thursday. I’m driving back to Winnipeg from Ottawa, so I’ll be driving on Thursday.
Our first meeting would likely be next week on Thursday, possibly for a bit of an organizational meeting, even if it doesn’t last too long. We’ll confirm that after Shaila, Caroline and I meet tomorrow, but we’ll say tentatively next Thursday for our first meeting, if that’s all right.
If that is the case and if there is no further business, thank you very much for coming on. Sorry, Senator McPhedran, for having you float around in outer space there. We were told that you might be a little bit late, and I guess maybe that’s why we didn’t wait; we dove right into it. I apologize for any inconvenience and hopefully that won’t happen again.
Senator Downe: I’m wondering if it’s possible to be sent the minutes of the last 10 meetings by email, and a little one‑page summary of any outstanding issues we may have that are of an immediate nature. I saw the last meeting of CIBA. I watched it online, and I saw there were some concerns. So if you could send me those, it would be appreciated.
Having been on this committee years ago, I would like to be current and see what the issues are rather than being swamped with documents.
The Chair: Ms. Anwar, is it possible to do that?
Ms. Anwar: For the minutes of the meetings, we have several reports that were presented to CIBA last session that are essentially encapsulations of several meetings. Those minutes are in camera, so typically from session to session, those aren’t disclosed. But I think the materials that Caroline’s team is preparing will largely give you that overview in terms of what the preoccupations were for the subcommittee in the session and what are the issues going forward.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Downe: I appreciate that the minutes are normally not distributed, but given that this is a new committee, I think it’s important for the members to know what was decided and what was not decided so we don’t till the same ground over and over. Rather than being swamped with a series of reports, if the minutes identify anything that raises a concern, I’ll ask for the more detailed reports. If things have already been summarized and passed, then there is no need to revisit them.
The Chair: If those meetings were in camera, Senator Downe, I don’t know whether it’s possible to send minutes of those meetings.
Ms. Anwar: If I may, senator, those minutes are now part of the archives of CIBA from the previous session. So at this point, CIBA would have to request permission from the Senate to disclose the information. But as I said, I think the material that is being prepared to summarize everything will probably be less confusing than the minutes because for the meetings themselves, there are several different files and several different chronologies, and everything that we have in terms of preparation will be talking about where we left off, what is left to decide and what was decided before.
All that is to say that I think we can essentially summarize the last 10 meetings for you fairly easily in the briefing material that has been prepared. That’s largely the point of the briefing information.
The Chair: If Ms. Anwar were to do that, Senator Downe, and if that isn’t sufficient, maybe we can raise the issue again and if we have to go through CIBA, we do that. Is that acceptable?
Senator Downe: Yes, I agree, because I’m not sure, Senator Plett, if you were at the meeting, but years ago, I was at a CIBA meeting that was in camera. Those minutes were later disclosed publicly, not to members of the committee [Technical difficulties] because there was some issue. So I’m not sure that I accept this confidentiality of a subcommittee, and I think I will ask CIBA to —
Ms. Anwar: Senator Downe, sorry to interrupt. Can I get you to move your microphone up a little bit? We’re getting interference. Thank you.
Senator Downe: I don’t know if you heard all of that or not, but I would like to see the minutes, so I think I’ll ask CIBA to release the previous minutes rather than have a summary prepared by others. I’ll take that up at the next CIBA meeting. Thank you, chair.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Downe.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: My comment is along the same lines as Senator Downe’s. I think it’s important for us to know where we’re starting from. We’ve already received an email from Ms. Caroline Morency to let us know that many decisions will have to be made.
Personally, I won’t be requesting any additional information. I’m going to wait until you forward us the information the Senate Administration deems relevant for the next meeting.
Obviously, I’d prefer to work with the decisions that have been made, but I’d also like to make sure we have information on those decisions, so we know where we’re headed from this point on.
[English]
The Chair: Thanks to both of you. We will look into whether we can get those or whether we have to make an official request at a CIBA meeting. If we have to do that, then by all means we can ask for that at the next CIBA meeting. If that is all right, we will take that position. I think any one of us could ask that question at CIBA.
Are there any other comments or points that you would like to raise? If not, thank you very much, and hopefully you’re all keeping safe. I look forward to seeing you on our next call.
Have a good rest of the week. We’ll adjourn the meeting with that.
(The committee adjourned.)