THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND FORESTRY
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, November 18, 2020
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met by videoconference this day at 5:30 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Evelyne Côté, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Senator Deacon?
Senator C. Deacon: I would like to nominate Senator Diane Griffin of Prince Edward Island to chair AGFO in this session of Parliament.
Ms. Côté: Are there any other nominations? It is moved by the Honourable Senator Deacon that the Honourable Senator Griffin do take the chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Côté: I declare the motion carried. I invite the Honourable Senator Griffin to take the chair.
Senator Diane F. Griffin (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you for your vote of confidence on this. I’m really looking forward to a great year. However, it’s not going to be a year without challenges. This is how we are going to be operating. A lot of this will be online. But having said that, I think we will do the best we can.
Our committee has always been a very positive and forward-looking committee. Those of you who have been on here for a while know that. Some people are coming back after being away for a while, so welcome back. To the new people, great to see you. You are on a good team. I’m hopeful we’ll have a good year. I know there are challenges in terms of getting meeting time on Zoom and the resources to sponsor our work. We need to be as creative as we can and as efficient as we can. I know this is a great group, so I’m really looking forward to working with all of you. Thank you.
I guess, as chair, I take over the meeting at this point. We need to elect two deputy chairs. We will now proceed to the election of those deputy chairs. I’m ready to receive a motion or nomination to that effect. Are there any nominations for the two positions of deputy chair?
Senator R. Black: It’s my honour and privilege to nominate our colleague Senator Deacon, Nova Scotia.
The Chair: Thank you. We have one nomination. Is there a second nomination for the other position?
Senator Seidman: Yes, there is. It’s my honour to nominate Senator Victor Oh as deputy chair.
The Chair: Thank you. It has been moved that the Honourable Senators Colin Deacon and Victor Oh be deputy chairs for this committee. Is it agreed, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. Perhaps the deputy chairs would like to make some comments.
Senator C. Deacon: I’m looking forward to getting some time to work together. I can think of nothing more important than our food security in this country, which has been tested during the last eight months. I think that we have proven we have the ability to bring some important ideas forward and that they are needed now more than ever. I’m looking forward to working as a team.
Senator Oh: I’m very happy to serve as co-deputy chair. This is a committee that, since I became a senator, I’ve served on every term. It’s a great committee. I love it, and I’ve learned a lot about the Canadian agricultural sector. Hopefully, we will have more production and more food to feed the world. I’m looking forward to working with you again, since last year we were on the same team. This year we are back working together with quite a few of our colleagues. I’m looking forward to a good year.
The Chair: I had no idea you had such a long history with this committee, Senator Oh. That’s amazing. Thank you, both of you, for agreeing to serve as deputy chairs.
We need to get the fourth person for the steering committee, but first let’s deal with some routine motions. These are standard motions that are consistent with past practices of this and other committees.
First, the motion to create the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, known as the steering committee. For this session, it was agreed that all four parties and groups would have a representative on the steering committee. Do I have a proposer for Motion No. 3?
Senator Bellemare: Madam chair, if I may. I know these are routine procedures, but I would like to bring some kind of amendment, if I can call it that, because it’s an amendment to the effect that the subcommittee, which will be composed of four, instead of having all the power to decide by themselves on the agenda and so forth, would be regulated under rule 12-12(6) like a subcommittee. It means this steering committee, when they meet, will report to the committee as a whole so that we can decide about the agenda and about the witnesses to come, all together. The steering committee is now big, and we want to work with a lot of collegiality, so why not do that, have rule 12-12(6) apply to the steering committee? This is the amendment I propose.
The Chair: Okay. Can I ask: Is that truly an amendment or is it a guideline to the committee? The way the committee has worked in the past, in this particular committee, is that we have relied very heavily on the whole committee. Senator Mercer would know that because he was on it last time.
Senator Bellemare: I think it would be an amendment even though you have been working collegially — just to make it certain that we work under those rules.
[Translation]
We could phrase it as follows: “that the committee act pursuant to rule 12-12(6),” unless Ms. Côté has a suggestion or others want to make suggestions. It’s simple, really. This clarifies that the subcommittee is empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to the agenda, inviting witnesses and scheduling meetings.
[English]
The Chair: Ms. Côté, can you help us on that?
Ms. Côté: The subcommittee is an actual subcommittee under 12-12(6), so it’s not an amendment per se. It’s already like that. If the committee decides they want the subcommittee to report this way, they don’t need to make an amendment. It already applies.
The Chair: Typically, this has been the way the committee acted in the past, being heavily reliant on the whole committee in terms of reporting back and in terms of decision making. The full committee has the power of decision.
Senator Bellemare: Maybe I can phrase it differently then. Instead of having that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, inviting witnesses and scheduling hearings, we could say that the subcommittee reports to the committee with respect to its agenda, inviting witnesses and scheduling hearings.
Senator Mercer: I think the issue is that the subcommittee sets the agenda, invites witnesses and helps organize meetings. In the interim, if something were to happen with respect to witnesses, meeting times, and/or other issues, it’s difficult to go back to the full committee all the time. Although it’s much easier these days; we could do it by email and consult that way. I think the steering committee always comes back to the full committee to say, “Here is what the plan is,” and to solicit ideas from the rest of the committee, from people who aren’t on the steering committee, so they have as much input as they would like into the direction of the committee.
Senator Bellemare: I’m new to this committee. What you’re saying is this committee has not imposed the decisions of the steering committee on the committee as a whole, never. In other words, it acts as if it was reporting to the committee.
Senator Mercer: Yes.
The Chair: It’s how we have always acted. Perhaps even more so — we have relied on the full committee more than a lot of other committees have.
Senator Mercer: I have been on the committee for 17 years. Only once in 17 years have we had any major disagreement. That came when there was major government legislation that affected the industry and was very political. There were two groups: one group on one side, one on the other. It then came to the whole committee to manage.
Senator Bellemare: If you say so, then I can comply.
Senator Mercer: I see Senator Black has his hand up.
The Chair: Go ahead, senator.
Senator R. Black: I hear Senator Bellemare. Do we have your commitment that you are going to come to us for consideration? I think that’s all you are asking, right?
Senator Bellemare: That’s right.
The Chair: Definitely. In the past, we have probably been more consultative than a lot of other committees I have served on. I would like to keep that same method of operation.
Senator C. Deacon: You’ve got my personal commitment.
The Chair: I understand what you are saying, Senator Bellemare, but I don’t think we need an amendment to achieve that. That’s just our modus operandi. That’s the way I like to operate, so we are on the same page.
Senator R. Black: I would make this motion.
The Chair: Senator Black moved that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chairs and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
We’ll move on to a motion to publish the committee’s proceedings. Do I have a proposer for this motion, that the committee —
Senator Mercer: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Mercer moved that the committee publish its proceedings.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Put your hands up. I very quickly see you all. Thank you. The motion is carried.
Our next motion is Motion No. 5, and it relates to the financial report. As per rule 12-26(2), each committee must table a report on the expenses incurred during the previous session, that is 42.1. A copy of the draft report prepared by the clerk was distributed by email.
Do I have a mover for the following motion:
That the committee adopt the draft first report prepared in accordance with rule 12-26(2).
A mover, please. Senator Mercer moved the motion.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you, folks. The motion is carried.
We move on to research staff. Do I have a proposer for this motion?
Senator Seidman: Sure, I’ll propose it.
The Chair: Senator Seidman moved:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign an analyst to the committee;
That the chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee’s examination and consideration of such bills, subject matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and that the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analysis, summaries and draft reports.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The motion is carried.
I now invite the analysts to turn their video on. Joanne Markle LaMontagne. Thank you.
Number 7 is on the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. Do I have a proposer for Motion No. 7?
Senator C. Deacon: So moved.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator C. Deacon moved that:
Pursuant to section 7, chapter 3.05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chairs and the clerk of the committee;
that pursuant to section 8, chapter 3.05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chairs and the clerk of the committee; and
That notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chairs.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. The motion is carried.
The next motion is related to travel. Do I have a proposer for the motion?
Senator Bellemare: Yes.
The Chair: Senator Bellemare moved:
That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Next motion is designation of members travelling on committee business. Do I have a proposer for Motion No. 9?
The Honourable Senator R. Black moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to, one, determine whether any member of the committee is on “official business” for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and two, consider any member of the committee to be on “official business” if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and that the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agreed. Thank you. The motion is carried.
Travelling and living expenses of witnesses. Do I have a proposer for Motion No. 10?
The Honourable Senator Mercer moved:
That pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the same organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion to be carried.
Do I have a proposer for Motion No. 11?
The Honourable Senator Mercer moved:
that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communications officers assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings at its discretion.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The motion is carried.
Senators, this concludes our —
Senator R. Black: Madam Chair, I don’t think we have a fourth member yet.
The Chair: We don’t. Now, maybe the clerk can clarify this for me. I think that fourth member is agreed to subsequently by his group, and I know that it’s to be Senator Mercer, but I don’t know that we need a formal motion at this meeting to enact that.
Could you tell us that, Ms. Côté?
Ms. Côté: That is correct, yes.
Senator R. Black: Okay.
The Chair: It’s to be Senator Mercer. Initially I thought he was going to be nominated at this meeting and then realized subsequently, because we were saying we have four groups represented on the committee, that we are in a little different circumstance there. Thank you.
Senator Mercer: Thank you.
The Chair: Senators, this concludes our organizational meeting. We have a lot of work ahead of us. We are going to have to be very strategic in how we use our time, and we’ll have to work very hard to get time and resources to be able to do our work. I promise that the steering committee will get to work on that right away.
We will be in touch with members of the committee. I know that Senator Black, way back in the second-last Parliament now, had proposed a major soil study. He is going to send us a proposal in that regard.
I should also tell you that it’s my intent tomorrow during the Senate sitting to give notice of motion. I’m going to ask for a general order of reference so that if we have small studies that we feel need to be done on an as-needed basis and quickly, that we have the ability to do that. Whether or not we ever have to use that motion, the point is we will have that ability. That’s my intent tomorrow, to give us that flexibility.
Senator Black, when do you think you may be sending your proposal around to the committee members?
Senator R. Black: Everyone will get an email within the next 30 minutes.
Senator Mercer: What’s taking you so long, Rob?
Senator R. Black: Yes. It’s a general email outlining my desire, and then a further proposal will come when we meet next, or ahead of time, if you suggest. Stay tuned.
Senator C. Deacon: I wouldn’t mind doing the same. Senator Black and I have had conversations about how our two proposals work together. Based on that, Rob, if you are supportive, I should share mine as well, so I may do a “reply all” to your email, if that’s okay.
Senator R. Black: My email will just tell you what I’m considering, and a proposal will come later.
Senator C. Deacon: Maybe I’ll wait for that, then.
The Chair: It sounds like you may have something very compatible between the two of you, which would be ideal, if that does happen. Others may wish to weigh in also. Thank you.
That will be initiated, and that will get our discussion started on the agenda and procedure for our committee. The steering committee will take a look at that and try to move that to the stage where it comes to the full committee very quickly, as Senator Bellemare would like us to do. Not a problem. That’s how we operate, and we’ll continue to do that.
Does anybody have any comments before I adjourn the meeting?
Senator R. Black: I see an email that it looks like we have all received. There are some changes to Senate sittings already, as of today. Stay tuned for that email.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senators, this concludes our organizational meeting. Great to have you all here and great to be working with you.
(The committee adjourned.)