THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATIONS
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, November 18, 2020
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications met by videoconference this day at 8:30 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Ericka Dupont, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Manning: I would like to nominate Senator MacDonald to take the chair of this committee.
Ms. Dupont: Are there any other nominations? It is moved by the Honourable Senator Manning that the Honourable Senator MacDonald do take the chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Dupont: I declare the motion carried. I invite the Honourable Senator MacDonald to take the chair.
Senator Michael L. MacDonald (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues. It’s certainly great to get our committee up and running and good to see everybody’s face. Just so you know, what you are looking at here is I’m in my dining room, but I want you to know I’m surrounded by a bunch of true Canadiana. Behind me is a china cabinet, and the table I’m sitting at, these are both one of the last sets that came out of the Andrew Malcolm factory in Kincardine. It’s an old company, and for those of you who know furniture in Canada, they were around for the better part of 100 years. This will be my home base. The kitchen table has a good straight back, and I find it easier to sit here if I have to sit here for a few hours.
Thank you, everybody. It’s great to have your vote of confidence.
What I would like to do now is to proceed to the election of the deputy chair. I’m ready to receive a motion to that effect.
[Translation]
Senator Miville-Dechêne: I nominate Senator Dennis Dawson as deputy chair of the committee.
[English]
The Chair: Are there any other nominations? I declare Senator Dawson to be deputy chair. Senator Dawson, do you want to say a few words to the committee?
[Translation]
Senator Dawson: I gladly accept the nomination. I’ll even take the opportunity to nominate Senator Julie Miville-Dechêne as deputy chair.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Dawson. Are there any other nominations? Senator Miville-Dechêne, are you ready to receive the nomination?
[Translation]
Senator Miville-Dechêne: Thank you, Senator Dawson. I’m pleased to accept this vote of confidence from my colleagues. I won’t talk about the furniture behind me, because it has no historical interest. However, I want to say that I’ll continue to learn through this committee. This committee was my first Senate committee after my appointment. I learned a great deal, especially about oil. I think that we’ll be talking more about communications, which is a little less complex for me of course. That said, I’m glad to hear that we must consider the issues related to Bill C-10 so that we can improve the bill, if necessary, or at least study it, when it comes before us. Thank you again.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, senator. Do we have any more nominations at this time? I declare these motions carried.
We have some routine motions to adopt.
Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, do I have a proposer? Senator Simons?
Senator Simons: We need to appoint the fourth member, I believe, of steering. I’m pleased to nominate Senator Wallin to fill the fourth position.
The Chair: As there are no other nominees, Senator Wallin, are you prepared to accept?
Senator Wallin: I would like to thank Senator Simons for the nomination. I appreciate that very much. I look forward to this committee. We have a lot of issues to deal with, and I hope that soon we will be able to get to work on them. Thank you so much.
The Chair: Thank you, senator. I trust we will be up and running very soon.
We have some routine motions to adopt, starting with the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. Do we have a proposer for this motion?
Senator Cormier: I do propose.
The Chair: I’ll read it out:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Ms. Dupont: If I may interject, Senator MacDonald, but your sound is quite low. Also, I’m at the first motion that nominated Senator Wallin to sit on the steering committee — it kind of interferes with this motion as well. So Senator Wallin would have been appointed the third member of the steering committee earlier, in the first motion.
The Chair: All right. Can you hear me now?
Ms. Dupont: Yes, much better. Thank you.
The Chair: We will proceed, then, to the motion to publish the committee’s proceedings. Do I have a proposer for Motion 4?
Senator Boisvenu: I move it.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moves that the committee publish its proceedings. Is the motion carried? I declare the motion carried.
Motion 5 is the financial report: As per rule 12-26(2), each committee has to table a report on the expenses incurred during the previous session. Do I have a proposer for that motion?
Senator Griffin: I so move.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Griffin moved that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 12-26(2). Is the motion carried? I declare the motion carried.
The sixth item is research staff. Do I have a proposer for Motion 6 ? The Honourable Senator Simons moved:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
That the chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical, and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee’s examination and consideration of such bills, subject matters of bills, and estimates, as are referred to it;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee;
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. I now invite the analysts to turn on their camera. Are you both there? Good to see you. Thanks for being here.
I’m going to item 7, which is the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. Do I have a proposer for the motion?
Senator Manning: Yes, I will.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Manning moved:
That, pursuant to section 7, chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee; that, pursuant to and, notwithstanding the foregoing, the — related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Is this motion carried? I declare the motion carried. Next is item 8, travel. Do I have a mover?
Senator Dasko: I will.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Dasko moved:
That the committee empowers the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Is the motion carried? Carried.
Do I have a proposer for Motion 9, designation of members travelling on committee business?
Senator Wallin: I will.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Wallin moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the committee is on “official business” for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and.
2) consider any member of the committee to be on “official business” if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and
That the subcommittee report, at the earliest opportunity, any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
The Chair: Thank you. Item 10, travelling and living expenses of witnesses. Do I have a proposer? The Honourable Senator Cormier moved:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the same organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
Is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. I declare the motion carried. Item 11, communications. Do I have a proposer?
Senator Boisvenu: I move it.
The Chair: Senator Boisvenu moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage, by electronic media, of the committee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings, at its discretion.
Is the motion carried? Thank you. I declare the motion carried.
The communications officer assigned to us is Ben Silverman.
In terms of other business, the regular time slots for meetings for the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications are yet to be confirmed. The details will be shared as they become available.
I want to say a few words before we adjourn, but raise your hand if you have questions before that.
Senator Miville-Dechêne: Maybe you will speak to it, but I’m wondering if we are going to schedule another meeting to talk about future work of the steering committee.
The Chair: I think we’ll be doing that shortly. I want to sit down with the staff and discuss how we are going to go forward in the next week or so. But we should be meeting soon.
Senator Griffin: I’m not sure when we are going to get meeting time. It’s going to be very difficult between now and when we break for Christmas. I would like to suggest we consider that we meet in January; if we can get permission, we should look at meetings in January.
The Chair: Anybody else want to respond to that?
Senator Wallin: I think for the purposes of planning — and we can check with our clerks on this — could we do a telephone meeting, a conference call, so we are not taxing the resources?
The Chair: I’m certainly open to that if others are. Senator Woo is saying, “no.” I don’t know what the —
Ms. Dupont: That is not authorized due to the motion that was passed yesterday in the chamber. But you could coordinate a meeting with steering to discuss future work and bring that to the committee at a later time.
Senator Miville-Dechêne: I would like a steering committee meeting — certainly before Christmas.
The Chair: I was thinking about the steering committee when Senator Wallin brought that up.
Senator Simons: If we are not sitting next week, and it looks like we are not, that might be an opportunity you might want to grab. Suddenly our calendar has opened up for next week.
The Chair: It might be a good idea if the rest of steering is open to that. I’m open to it.
Senator Miville-Dechêne: I’m open to it.
The Chair: All right. Why don’t we get something set up in the next few days, and we’ll get together for a chat next week? Sound good, everybody?
Before we adjourn, I think we have a great opportunity here in the next number of months. There is so much to look at in this country, especially in transport and communications. There is a great opportunity for all of us to put something on the table that we could make a real impact with and address some long-standing problems that exist in the country that many governments have tried to tackle and have struggled with.
I ask you all to put your thinking caps on and put together some proposals that we can all discuss for examination. There is a lot of great material out there.
If I could make one suggestion, when topics of study are broad and pan-national, I think they bring all of the country into it. I think we should try to discuss issues that are broad and pan-national, if possible, as opposed to things that are very narrow and perhaps geographically located in the country. Just some food for thought. There are a lot of others that we can discuss.
I look forward to your suggestions and proposals. With the people we have on the steering committee, I’m sure we can put together a good package of stuff so we can discuss and go forward with an agenda that will be acceptable to everybody. If anybody has any questions —
Senator Dasko: I just wanted to get a sense of whether we know of anything for sure that’s going to be on our agenda besides Bill C-10. Also, I have a question with respect to the current negotiations that the government is having with the airlines around support packages. Do we know if that is likely to come to us as legislation or study?
The Chair: I can’t answer that yet, down here in the bubble. Perhaps somebody in Ottawa who is more plugged into what the government is doing can answer; I can’t. Perhaps the clerk can or others on the committee have more insight into that, but I confess I don’t.
Senator Dasko: Is there any sense of other topics?
The Chair: We have time to put some topics on the table, discuss them and see if we can come to consensus around what we can attack and examine. I have been on this committee for — Senator Dawson and I have been on this committee for a long time together. I’m sure everyone will get a good area of what they want to cover. We’ll give everything a fair assessment.
Senator Wallin: I want to respond to Senator Dasko. It would be smart on our part to look at airlines, trains — all of that issue — whether or not we have a package in front of us, because we certainly will, given the state of those sectors. I think that’s a priority.
The Chair: I don’t think I disagree with you; that is one of the big priorities for the country, no question. So it’s food for thought.
Senator Wallin: We actually have to be able to get to Ottawa at some point, so this is self-interest beyond anything.
The Chair: I’m going shack happy. I’ve been here for eight months and I would love to get to Ottawa. I must be getting more patient as I get older. I tend to do what I’m told now.
Any other questions before we adjourn?
Senator Dawson: One of the things that launches a good committee is having our responsible ministers come in for their mandate letters. It gives us an opportunity, whether it’s airlines, airports, whether it’s Bill C-10 or the whole environment of telecommunications. Having both ministers eventually, definitely in the new year, come in front of us and be obliged to react to their mandate letter I think is an opportunity for us while we are waiting for legislation.
Somebody mentioned that Bill C-10 is not even in committee yet in the House. Before it gets to us, it will have to move a lot. As far as transport, there is no legislation on the books. But I think the way to go around those constraints is the mandate letters. That forces both ministers to come in front of us and talk to us about what is on their table and what we can get out of them in the short term.
The Chair: Senator Dawson, great advice. It’s great to have you on the committee, with all your years of experience.
Senator Dawson was chair and I was deputy chair for quite a while, and now the roles are reversed. That’s what happens when you are in opposition. You end up getting to chair this committee.
Those are great suggestions, Senator, and I look forward to discussing this further in committee and in our subcommittees.
Senator Dawson: I’m just sorry I’m not in power. You’re the only one in opposition.
The Chair: If we can get power back, I’ll become deputy chair again. I’ll take that exchange.
Senator Simons: I want to second what Senator Dawson said. But I want to add that I think there is a third minister we need to have in. I don’t know if it’s the minister of industry, or science and technology — whoever is responsible primarily for the broadband internet file. We had two different speakers today speaking to that issue. Just as COVID has laid bare the importance of our airline and airport infrastructure, it’s also highlighted the problem we have of equitable broadband access, as we see demonstrated here this evening. I’m hoping that is something we can look at profitably in the months to come.
The Chair: Anybody else want to add anything? Before I adjourn, Senators Wallin, Dawson, Miville-Dechêne, we can work with Ms. Dupont and set up a time for next week.
I’ll work with you, Ms. Dupont, and we can set it up.
Again, it’s great to be back to work and get this committee going. We have been waiting for months. We will do what we can to get it going in spite of the challenges. I think we have come a long way in the last few weeks, given these communication challenges. I look forward to working with all of you over the next weeks and months.
(The committee adjourned.)