THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, October 2, 2024
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met with videoconference this day at 4:15 p.m. [ET] to examine and report on Canada’s interests and engagement in Africa.
Senator Peter Harder (Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Deputy Chair: My name is Peter Harder. I am a senator from Ontario and the deputy chair, chairing this meeting in the absence of our esteemed chair.
Before we begin, I wish to invite committee members participating in today’s meeting to introduce themselves.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Amina Gerba from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Fridhandler: Daryl Fridhandler, Alberta.
Senator Ravalia: Welcome. Mohamed Ravalia, Newfoundland and Labrador.
Senator Woo: Good afternoon. Yuen Pau Woo, British Columbia.
Senator M. Deacon: Welcome. Marty Deacon, Ontario.
Senator Robinson: Good evening and welcome. I am Mary Robinson, from Prince Edward Island.
Senator Coyle: Mary Coyle, Antigonish, Nova Scotia.
Senator Greenwood: Margo Greenwood, British Columbia. I’m here for Senator Boniface.
The Deputy Chair: Colleagues, I will introduce other senators as they arrive. Senator MacDonald is just entering.
Today, colleagues, we are continuing our study on Canada’s interests and engagement in Africa.
I would indicate that this is the panel we postponed last June. They’re jinxed, because they were postponed in June and delayed in October. I thank Meredith Preston McGhie, Secretary General, Global Centre for Pluralism; Edward Akuffo, Associate Professor and Head, Department of Political Science, University of the Fraser Valley; and David Black, Professor, Department of Political Science, Dalhousie University. I want to thank our witnesses for appearing and being with us today.
Colleagues, with the agreement of our witnesses, we will extend our session. We’ll do 55 minutes, and we’ll share the burden of delay with the next panel.
Before we hear remarks and proceed to questions and answers, I would ask everyone present to please mute notifications on their devices.
With that, we will hear opening remarks. We will begin with Ms. Preston McGhie, to be followed by Professors Akuffo and Black. The floor is yours.
Meredith Preston McGhie, Secretary General, Global Centre for Pluralism: Thank you, Senator Harder, and thank you to the committee for inviting me to speak today.
[Translation]
Thank you all for your commitment to Africa. I will be speaking mostly in English today.
[English]
I have lived and worked for more than 20 years on the African continent. I want to speak today on issues of peace and conflict, but I did want to note that this represents only a fraction of the experiences of the region.
My experience has reinforced that effective engagement in Africa requires relationships, presence, real investments of time, listening and building trust, and a deep-rooted understanding of political and conflict dynamics that impact current events. These are essential for our effective engagement with the region.
Too often, we think of what we may bring to the continent when we need to recognize Africa as a pillar of global leadership and that partnerships with the region are in Canada’s strategic interest.
I wanted to speak to two points of strategic value for both Canada and for Africa: peacemaking and pluralism. Given the gravest protection crises on the planet are currently happening in Sudan, I will speak to Sudan specifically.
Canada has a longstanding tradition and role to play in making peace. We have resources and expertise on mediation inside government and across Canada. We must use these resources more strategically. We have been an important funder for many peace efforts in the region, but we need to do more. We need to invest in senior and strategic presence and expertise around the peacemaking efforts that we fund in Africa. This requires diplomats to have more capacity and support on mediation as a core diplomatic skill. It requires more senior, dedicated diplomatic resources on mediation. Effectively, for us to advance peace, we too need to be at the table.
Sudan offers an important example here. Canada has supported a diverse coalition of civilian leaders dedicated to ending the war in Sudan, known as Tagadom. This innovative, pluralist approach is central for Sudanese-led, civilian-driven efforts to end the war in Sudan and put it on a path toward peace. Canada is similarly supporting important efforts for women’s engagement in the ceasefire processes. These efforts should be enhanced with senior, dedicated, full-time diplomatic representation on Sudan to engage in the complexities of this process. The lack of coherence internationally is hampering peace efforts, and we need to learn from this. Sudan deserves our full-time focus.
I wish to turn now to the value that pluralism brings to cementing Canada’s strategic relationship with Africa. Questions of social cohesion, of what it means to engage in our societies, what belonging means to young people and how we talk across our differences are questions that all of our societies are currently grappling with — here, in Africa and around the world. Investments in pluralism enable us to span conflict in development contexts and support more peaceful and stable societies. Pluralist approaches offer us innovations and engagement with challenging issues in ways that are forward-looking and deepen our partnerships.
Pluralist approaches meet societies where they are at. They are not externally driven or imposed but enable us to work in deep partnership with African leaders — in government and in civil society — to engage together in developing strategies that make all of our societies more coherent, connected and successful.
We have seen the power and potential of this first-hand in the Global Centre for Pluralism’s work in the region in the strengthening of democratic governance systems, increasing women’s political participation, engagement of youth and marginalized communities to activate their citizenship, and addressing sources of division and polarization. Inclusive service delivery is but one creative example we have seen where we can find new spaces for dialogue and partnership to engage in a pluralist, belonging-centred approach to engage, for example, marginalized communities on the periphery at risk of radicalization.
To return to Sudan, a pluralist approach will be central to efforts to find a lasting resolution to the conflict. This year, Canada dedicated $130 million in support of the humanitarian efforts in Sudan. Important as this is, the humanitarian crisis simply will not end unless there is a civilian-centred solution rooted in Sudan’s diversity to end the conflict.
As Sudanese youth recently called for at the Tagadom founding conference in Addis Ababa in May, which I was privileged to attend, they said over and over that we all need to work together to rebuild a Sudan that can hold us all with peace and equality. For me, that pluralist call to action is one that Canada must heed.
I have many other examples that would far exceed the five minutes I have been allocated, and I am happy to speak on our work in Ghana, Kenya, South Sudan and elsewhere. I look forward to the committee’s questions. Thank you.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much.
Edward Akuffo, Associate Professor and Head, Department of Political Science, University of the Fraser Valley, as an individual: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for inviting me. I will be very honest and frank in my comments.
Mr. Chair, Canada is at least two decades behind when it comes to broadening and deepening its relationship with the African continent, and Canada risks becoming a peripheral external power with any further delays in demonstrating serious commitment to the region. To be sure, Mr. Chair, it is a pivotal moment for security and economic transformation in Africa, and I hope that your study will help Canada to build on its past strengths, regain its position as a moral power, and develop innovative, mutually beneficial and focused strategic partnerships in Africa.
In that light, I wish to recommend, at the outset, that Canada’s engagement and interest in Africa must be grounded in a comprehensive and coherent Africa strategy that integrates security, diplomacy and economic development. The strategy must be the springboard for Canada to punch above its weight, as it used to do on specific issues on the African continent.
The overarching principles of the strategy should be mutual respect, reciprocity and non-indifference to Africa’s agency at the state, subregional and regional levels, while reflecting on the growing geopolitical and geoeconomic significance of the region. To be sustainable, a Canada-Africa strategy must be resilient and adaptable, a truly multi-partisan product that will outlive specific governments and have demonstrable public support.
To this end, Canada must adopt a regional approach to its strategic engagement with Africa. This will allow for focus of policies and spending and the alignment of Canada’s mutual interest to regional priorities, even as Canada strengthens its relations with each African country.
I offer these specific recommendations:
One: The broadening and strengthening of diplomatic ties must be the first priority of Canada. Nothing will work without a serious commitment to building relationships; therefore, Canada must increase the number of its embassies in African states and establish permanent missions in each of the eight regional economic communities to give effectiveness and visibility to its engagement on the continent. A key aspect of Canada’s diplomacy must be the establishment of and regular consultation with a Canadian council for African diaspora.
Two: The economic aspect of a Canada strategy must be the development of mutually beneficial trade and investment agreements that are tailored to the specific priorities of each of the eight regional economic communities in Africa. Canada must avoid a one-size-fits-all trade and investment agreement in Africa.
Three: Canada must establish innovative and flagship programs modelled after the defunct Canada Fund for Africa and Canada Investment Fund for Africa to boost investor interest and help build capacity of Canadian and African partners to invest in sectors aside from mining.
Four: On security, Canada must lead efforts to strengthen AU‑NATO interregional cooperation and build the capacity of African peacekeeping centres of excellence which it helped to establish in the early 2000s. As well, peacekeeping must be integrated with maritime operations in the region.
Lastly: An essential component of a Canada-Africa strategy must be a special fund to foster educational partnerships between Canadian and African institutions with the goal of promoting academic interest and producing policy-relevant research to sustain the strategy into the future. Canada must seek to establish subregional-based research centres of excellence for Canada-Africa relations in each of the eight regional economic communities.
Mr. Chair, the African continent has always been a space for geopolitical and economic competition among major powers. In fact, Canada’s own economic interest is growing, particularly in mining and merchandise trade, which are valued at $37 billion and $16.2 billion respectively, in 2023. Despite its significant development and security challenges, including hybrid threats, Africa is projected to be the fastest growing regional economy in 2024. It has 30% of critical minerals and will be the home of 25% of the world’s population by 2050. In addition, at 28%, Africa is one of the largest voting blocs in the United Nations.
The African Union, regional economic communities and member states are undertaking major policy reforms to strengthen democratic governance, peace and security, and economic development.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you. I must interrupt you and say that we’ll continue in the questions. I want to maximize our time, and you are beyond the five minutes.
Senator Al Zaibak has joined us. Professor Black, the screen is yours.
David Black, Professor, Department of Political Science, Dalhousie University, as an individual: Thank you very much, Senator Harder and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this timely study.
As committee members know, there are good reasons — self‑interested, principled and systemic — to engage with African countries and people in more sustained and coherent ways. For example, Africa’s potential economic upside, as Edward has just stressed, is greater than virtually any other global region. Yet its security and humanitarian challenges, such as those in Sudan, are also more widespread in ways that have systemic impacts and could greatly limit its potential.
Major collective action challenges we are all affected by, including forced migration, global health and environmental sustainability, simply cannot be faced down without African participation and partnerships.
Finally, because of its growing collective importance across multiple fronts, as well as its large number of states, Africa is of great and growing diplomatic salience. Broadly, this places Africa at the fulcrum of world order tensions. Narrowly, Canada’s ability to achieve important diplomatic objectives depends on support from African governments.
Taken together, these are good and sufficient reasons to adopt an integrated, multi-dimensional strategic approach towards the continent. Yet Canada has never had one. We will see how far Global Affairs Canada’s long-awaited approach to African partnerships will take us towards this objective.
This is not to diminish the ongoing efforts of many Canadians and Africans to engage with each other in mutually beneficial ways. Historically, Canada benefited in the post-colonial era from being a significant Western country in an era of ascendent liberal internationalism that could operate in both French and English, was a member of both the Commonwealth and La Francophonie, had a strong affinity for multilateralism, and wasn’t the United States, the United Kingdom or France. Through development assistance, military training and peacekeeping, growing people-to-people links and, later, growing commercial links, particularly in the extractive sector, Canadians built a relatively broad though thin portfolio of relationships.
Periodically, these connections enabled Canadian governments to play outsized leadership roles on issues of importance to their African counterparts. The two most prominent examples were the Mulroney government’s activism in support of African and international efforts to end apartheid, and the Chrétien government’s role in orchestrating the G8’s Africa Action Plan as a response to the New Partnership for Africa’s Development. Yet these types of initiatives were never sustained, leading to a policy approach that was consistently inconsistent.
Since the mid-2000s, even this level of periodic interest and engagement has waned, just as the rest of the world was recognizing Africa’s growing economic security and political importance and investing in new capacities to exploit these opportunities. While Canada’s development and investment ties continued to grow, albeit modestly, and the Canadian government did initiate the Muskoka Initiative on Maternal, Newborn and Child Health and later the Feminist International Assistance Policy, both with particular relevance in Africa, other long-term relationships diminished. A striking example, as has been expressed by others, was peacekeeping.
At home, a modest but vital international policy ecosystem, including the North-South Institute, Pearson Peacekeeping Centre, and Rights and Democracy, was abruptly dismantled. With other governments continuing to invest in these sorts of institutions, Canada continues to pay a price for their absence. Given all this, it is not surprising that many African counterparts view Canadian professions of renewed interest with skepticism.
How, then, should a more coherent, respectful and strategic approach be built? Briefly, I will suggest two general guideposts and some specific areas where Canadians and Africans could engage with each other in mutually beneficial ways.
Generally, Canadians should claim less and do more. As in peace operations and other collective-action challenges, we should aim to be consistently present, even if modestly so. Next, we should aim to build sustained relationships which are, as Doug Saunders recently wrote, polyphonic, that is, multi‑dimensional and thus able to weather changes and challenges in particular countries and sectors.
Specifically, we should re-invest in an arms-length development-policy ecosystem, beginning with a revamped version of something like the North-South Institute. We should prioritize relationship-building in a handful of key African countries in both francophone and anglophone Africa. Informally, this already happens to some degree, though not as systematically as it can or should. The point would be to build sustained relationships with strategic partners that can be drawn upon as challenges arise.
As many others have noted, not least my impressive colleagues in the academic community, we must find new ways to draw on the growing strength of the African diaspora in Canada.
Finally, we should continue to build on areas of persistent, trans-societal engagement, like sexual and reproductive health and rights and global health more broadly, while pursuing emerging areas of opportunity. This is about diversification. Self-interestedly —
The Deputy Chair: I’m going to have to end your statement, but I’m sure we’ll pick up some of those themes in the questioning.
Mr. Black: Okay.
The Deputy Chair: Colleagues, I will attempt to be as rigorous as our chair with respect to the allocation of time. We will have four minutes for questions and answers. I would invite senators to question concisely and address the witnesses you would wish to respond. Please respond concisely.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
My question is for you, Mr. Akuffo, because you emphasized a regional approach, as regards education in particular. On May 8, when Professor Fofack appeared before the committee, he also stressed Canada’s experience with higher education in Africa. He called for the creation, or rather for ambitious initiatives in this area.
Given that Canada has already played an important role in the education sector in Africa, what are your thoughts on Mr. Fofack’s suggestion of creating, with Canada’s help, a pan‑African university that could train the many young people of Africa and teach them the skills they need in that region, skills that are also Canadian skills?
[English]
Mr. Akuffo: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
That is a very important question that was just asked. I would say that yes, Canada has played a very important role in education on the African continent. There are quite a number of African students who are here as international students. In fact, I came to this country as an international student, so I can attest to the great quality of Canadian education. I’m a true beneficiary of that.
Regarding the specific question about an African university, I think that is a brilliant idea. I would like to suggest that instead of it being an AU university which is centred in one specific country, I would rather like to see us taking a regional or subregional approach where we can establish research centres of excellence in the eight regional economic communities. I think that will allow for local participation and also broaden the scope for many Africans to benefit from that and for Canadians to also engage in that partnership.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I really like the idea of a regional university, but how would that work with Canadian universities if there were eight regional universities? Can you explain that?
[English]
Mr. Akuffo: Again, thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
That is a brilliant follow-up question. I would suggest that, in selecting which institutions can host these research centres, we look at the universities’ global rankings. There are top universities on the African continent, and I believe we can find top universities in each of the eight regional economic communities and have Canadian institutions partner with them.
The Deputy Chair: We’ll come back to education.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you very much to our witnesses for being here today.
My first question is for Ms. Preston McGhie. Many of the current conflicts on the continent are embedded in regions with deep ethnic and political divisions. How do you see Canada’s role in supporting pluralism and peace-building efforts, particularly in the climate of current global geopolitics and new international players on the continent? In particular, I’m referring to the presence of Russia, China and, increasingly, India.
Ms. Preston McGhie: Thank you, senator, for an incredibly astute question about one of the biggest challenges for the entire region, let alone for Canada’s engagement there.
I would say one of the ways Canada could engage more is with the citizens of the conflicts in which people are affected. I’ve been particularly struck in the midst of the sorts of dynamics you describe in Sudan of the incredible leadership of Sudanese civilians who are pushing back against that kind of foreign interference by countries in the Gulf, in addition to those you mentioned, Russia and China. I think doubling down on engagement with citizens and with larger coalitions of actors on the continent is really central for this.
I would also like to echo some of Edward’s points around deepening relationships with key actors on the continent, whether it is Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya or others, in addition, of course, to the regional economic communities, or RECs, and the African Union. By utilizing these deeper relationships, we are able to work with African leaders, who themselves are also not particularly happy with some of these things that are going on on the continent, and we are able to work better in support of efforts that they are making to push back against unwanted influence.
But I would say that really deeply engaging with the citizenry is critical, and to do that, we need to be there. It is complex. Several colleagues I work with on Sudan have said several times that they are working very hard to build coalitions across their differences. They recognize that they are divided. They recognize these issues are difficult. What they ask of us is that we protect and respect the fragile internal cohesion that they are trying to build as they build back their society, and that is a role I think Canada is particularly well placed to play.
Senator Ravalia: My supplementary is for Dr. Akuffo. In your book Canadian foreign policy in Africa: Regional approaches to peace, security, and development, you provided a very valuable insight into Canada’s foreign policy in Africa particularly with respect to security and regional organizations. Since the publication of your book, do you think we have fallen behind as a country with respect to our relationships within the continent?
Mr. Akuffo: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I already said I will be very frank. It is very sad to watch how we have deteriorated in terms of our relationship with the African continent. In fact, we started something great in 2002, after Kananaskis at the G8 summit. That was an opportunity for us to build a very strong relationship with the African continent. We have backslidden so very badly. That is why I said in my opening remarks that we actually risk, if we further delay any effort to show serious commitment to the continent, becoming a peripheral power on the continent. So we have actually done very badly.
Senator MacDonald: My question is for Ms. Preston McGhie. You are the Secretary General of the Global Centre for Pluralism. You have 20 years of experience dealing with these issues. I am curious if you could let us know what success stories there are that you can reflect on, and also which countries seem to be intractably difficult to find solutions.
Ms. Preston McGhie: That’s an interesting question. I’m going to start with a couple of stories of hope, but I also wanted to centre them on stories where I have seen Canada engage in ways where I have seen real differences being made to spaces. I want to start there with Nigeria.
I was privileged to be with our former prime minister Joe Clark observing the elections in Nigeria in 2011. At the time, the high commissioner in Abuja took that as an opportunity, with Joe Clark’s presence, to gather a group of Nigerian leaders to have some quiet behind-the-scenes conversations about the intractable issues in the Middle Belt of Nigeria, a very sensitive conflict space that one would think an external actor would not be welcome to get engaged in. But by using deft diplomatic skills, as the high commissioner did in that particular setting, he was able to begin a series of conversations that led, in fact, to the organization I represented then, the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, to establish a series of dialogue processes across the Middle Belt, which brought groups that you would think are in intractable conflict to agreements that were crafted by them that were really pluralist agreements. They were agreements about how to live together better — not necessarily how to erase their differences but how to find ways and common ground among themselves for the future and for their children. I think it is a nice example of where Canada’s deft diplomacy and engagement and relationship with trust has really seen something.
I would say more broadly that when I think about success stories across Africa, I would say they’re with a pinch of salt, because we like to imagine Canada is a success story, but also we have deep challenges. I think every story in the region that I know of is complex, and each has its opportunities. I think Ghana is in a particularly interesting moment with elections coming up, with economic challenges, but also with phenomenal commitments to democracy, extraordinary civil society and so much that can be done. Kenya, similarly, has been facing, with the Gen Z protests this last year, an inflection point that deserves support and considered engagement from close friends. I could go on in several of those.
I would leave you also with one question on intractability, and that’s our dear South Sudan, which is a country that often ends up being the poster child for intractability, and too often we walk away. But I know there to be opportunities for engagement with South Sudanese now who want to change the narrative in that country despite the fact that the elections are not happening and despite the fact that violence continues to be endemic in their politics. There are South Sudanese leaders who are trying to change that narrative. I think, as Canada, we need to continue to support those spaces.
But to find the bits of success in every complex story requires us to be there and to engage and listen and to be in the room to find them.
Senator MacDonald: You mentioned last year we gave $100 and some million to Sudan. I assume we are not the only country giving money to Sudan.
Ms. Preston McGhie: Indeed.
Senator MacDonald: How much pours into Sudan from around the world to try to alleviate its problems, and who is handing this money and where does it go and what does it apply to?
Ms. Preston McGhie: I don’t have all the figures on the humanitarian situation and the humanitarian response in Sudan. The $132 million that was announced by the Government of Canada was primarily for humanitarian response. I know that the needs are considerably greater than that. When the humanitarian leadership met in Paris earlier this year, I believe the request was above $1 billion for the humanitarian response for Sudan, and I know that only about half of that has been met.
Senator Coyle: Thank you to all of our witnesses. It’s good to see my fellow Nova Scotian on the camera.
Two of you were really clear about the fact — I believe, Professor Black, you said the rest of the world is ahead of Canada in terms of what we are doing in our relationship with Africa. Professor Akuffo, you also said Canada is behind. You were pretty blunt at the beginning of your remarks. I believe all of you are suggesting that one of the things that we need to do is improve our diplomatic footprint in different ways: in terms of numbers, how they are prepared, where they are situated and the kinds of partnerships they are tasked with developing.
I would like each of you, if we have time, to unpack that a little bit deeper about what your concrete recommendations would be about Canada’s diplomatic footprint on the continent, and then if we have time, other partnerships, beyond those diplomatic ones, which are more civil society to civil society, including diaspora. Thank you.
Mr. Black: Thank you very much, Senator Coyle. It is great to see you.
First of all, I want to echo what Dr. Preston McGhie and Edward were saying about the need for depth of relationships. Absolutely, we need to be there long enough and in sufficient depth to be able to understand the complexities of these various situations.
I have a slightly different emphasis from Edward insofar as I think we have to be realistic about how many places we can be, given the need for depth, and we need to identify some places where we really invest not just in official diplomacy — and I’m going to pick up on your second point and say that I think the transsocietal links are terrifically important. That’s why we stress the need for a development policy ecosystem. It is those kinds of institutions in Canada that can connect to counterparts in Africa, and that creates the opportunity for what you would all know as track 2 diplomacy and the potential to build links across societies.
There are always opportunities to make connections inside governments through official channels, but it is those transsocietal links that will have durability even if there are issues that arise in terms of political instability.
Mr. Akuffo: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Specific recommendations I would make relating to our diplomatic footprint is what I mentioned in my opening remarks. We should establish diplomatic missions in each of the eight regional economic communities, and then we should also build relationships at the state level by increasing the number of embassies. Now, we have fewer than 30. Africa has 55 independent states, and we have fewer than 30 diplomatic missions. In fact, it is about 21 or so. The third point is that, at the African Union level, where we have already established a diplomatic mission, we need to resource that particular office to be able to have a footprint, a presence, on the continent.
Thank you.
Ms. Preston McGhie: I would make a one-second point on specialization and generalization. Too often, we have a generalist diplomatic corps. We could also do well to invest in specialists in the region so that when people do move from posting to posting, they are not moving from Nairobi to Jakarta to Copenhagen. We are looking at how they move from Nairobi to Pretoria to Accra, and we deepen our ties across the continent through specialization.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for that last answer, and thank you to everyone for being here today. I appreciate that.
I will ask a question to you, professor, with regard to Canada’s official engagement to Africa. You were, appreciatively, very candid when you spoke. I am wondering, what’s in a name? There has been a lot of discussion around if we will have a framework, a strategy or an approach. To many, this might seem almost like a silly debate, but we all know that language matters in these things. I am sure you feel the same way. What do you think about this language, and are you aware if the government has come to some sort of direction on this yet?
Mr. Akuffo: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I am not sure whether the government has come to any conclusion as to how they will define their engagement on the African continent. As you rightly mentioned, it started with a strategy and then to framework, to approach, and now we are talking about partnerships. It is creating a lot of confusion, not only in the academic circle but also within the professional circle. That, itself, is indicative of where we are as a country in terms of our relationship with the continent in that we cannot even give a name to how we want to engage the continent. It sends wrong signals to the African society. We need to come to a firm conclusion.
My strongest recommendation would be that we call it a strategy. A strategy is not a bad name. A strategy is about clearly defined processes of long-term engagement with the continent. That should be the way we should go.
Thank you.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you. I think you answered the second part of my question, which was what message it sends when the government oscillates on this. You are saying that it is making it worse and is another tick of concern, correct?
Mr. Akuffo: Yes.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you very much.
Senator Woo: Thank you to the witnesses.
Dr. Preston McGhie, I would like to know more about what you mean by a pluralist approach. In what ways is Canadian diplomacy in Africa currently not taking a pluralist approach, and how would it look different if we were to take such an approach?
Ms. Preston McGhie: Thank you. That is a fantastic question. My team would love a pluralist question specifically.
A lot of our work, rightly, will focus on things like strengthening of democratic institutions or upholding of human rights, but often when we focus specifically on some of those issues, it is harder to engage with some of the core questions societally that often African countries in which we are operating are working on.
To think about examples like gender identity questions and human rights therein, when you think about engaging with pluralism, what you are talking about is advancing respect for diversity. You are talking about creating a sense of belonging in societies. You are talking about helping societies build social cohesion. You are talking about belonging. Sometimes that is an easier frame for a conversation when you are talking about difficult issues, whether or not those are human rights-related issues or whether or not those are issues of radicalization.
We see with the coups across the Sahel and issues with belonging in northeast Nigeria, in northern Ghana, that we can engage differently if we take a belonging-centred approach and start to ask questions about how governments can invite their citizenry back in. How, for example, can the Government of Kenya invite their citizenry back in after the Gen Z protests?
Often the spaces we operate in, democratic institutions or human rights, don’t necessarily open the space to have a conversation about issues that are quite sensitive in these societies. If we are going to be a true partner and friend, using pluralism to open that space enables us to have a different quality of conversation with our partners.
Senator Woo: For our two professors, I want to get your sense of the state of African studies in Canada, the Africanists in our country. Do we have the capacity and human resources, for example, to do the type of track 2 work that Dr. Black alluded to? Can you give us a picture of how strong or weak we are in African studies in this country?
Mr. Akuffo: This question really hits a nerve. It is great. Thank you for asking this question. In fact, I am deeply honoured that today I share the same platform with a professor who actually was my PhD external examiner, Professor David Black. Professor David Black is the only academic I know of in Canada who studies the Canada-Africa relationship in a broader sense, myself now included as his former student, along with one other academic, Professor David Hornsby who teaches here at Carleton University. These are the only three of us who actually study African-Canadian foreign policy, and I think that that is why I said in my comments that we need to promote academic interest in the Canada-Africa relationship.
Mr. Black: To quickly supplement, and I appreciate his very kind words, African studies in Canada have some pockets of strength, but it is not as strong as it was. Moving beyond a Canada-Africa relationship. I would stress that we have a generation of diasporic Africans in the Canadian academy who are prepared to provide a new level of sophistication and connection between the two countries going forward.
Senator Al Zaibak: Thank you to all of our witnesses.
Since your team loves the questions about pluralism, I will ask my question partly in that regard. The Global Centre for Pluralism, which you head, indicates that the international community is more interested in long-term conflicts than ever before and notes that many of today’s conflicts stem from marginalization, exclusion, inequity and negative responses to diversity in society. I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. Now, the Global Centre for Pluralism argues that pluralism offers a transformative approach as a foundation for a more durable, lasting peace. In practical terms, how would the pluralism be practically, operationally, applied to addressing some of Africa’s more centrist conflicts? You referred to Sudan, but there are so many other conflicts.
Ms. Preston McGhie: Thank you. There are so many different ways. I will give you a few examples.
I mentioned inclusive service delivery before. This isn’t even conflict-specific but conflict-preventive. When you think of the situation in Ghana, we know, for example, that there are communities in the north of Ghana who are repeatedly told they are not Ghanaian. They are seen as security threats by too many people in their communities. Often, when some of these community members go to seek health services, for example, they are pulled out of the line in clinics and told that they are not Ghanaian but Burkinabè, so go back across the border. That pushes people to the margins of society and tells them that they do not belong. Often, other groups with nefarious intent — radical groups, for example — will say, “Come over to us. We’re fine. We’re over here if you feel alone.”
There are many ways we can engage with governments to look at how they can support belonging-centred approaches within their civil service. These are practical approaches to say that health clinics need to be opening and engaging. They are a frontline of belonging. Young people in the north of Kenya, for example, who seek citizenship — we all know that without citizenship documents, you cannot get far in most societies. This happens repeatedly in parts of Kenya. There is phenomenal work being done by civil society and paralegals to help marginalized communities access citizenship documents. We see that preventing conflict, for example, in the north of Africa.
If I could go to other places in conflict, such as South Sudan, one of the real challenges we see is narratives of division and polarization on social media and regular media. One of the things we do is work with journalists in South Sudan to see how they can build pluralist narratives within the media, talk about the conflict and recognize the division without fuelling it. How can you start to bring people together around some of the narratives of peace?
Similarly, in Sudan, a lot of the work we are doing is helping different groups who are recognizing their own divisions and figuring out how they can come together in the face of the conflict that has been started by the two generals in their own country. It is about how they can get past these divisions and look at the vast diversity of Sudan.
I have to tell you that Sudanese civilians — and Canada did support the Tagadom process, and it was very important and brought together a phenomenal diversity of Sudanese inside the country, around the region, from outside — religious leaders, traditional authorities, women, youth, disabled advocates, political actors, armed actors who were for peace — together to talk about the issues that faced their country. It was an inspiration to see that kind of pluralist leadership.
Senator Greenwood: This question is for all three of you, but if we could start with Professor Black, that would be great.
I would like to ask for your thoughts on the impact of China’s Belt and Road Initiative that has delivered billions in loans and infrastructure projects and created an alternative to Western aid and investment. This aid and investment from China come with few strings and does not have the same stringent human rights governance and environmental requirements that many Western nations require. Given China’s deepening ties in the African continent, especially significant investments, what can Canada do to remain relevant in the rapidly changing geopolitical environment? Does Canada’s focus on women, peace and security continue to carry the same impact, or is it fading to the background in light of that initiative?
The Deputy Chair: Senator Greenwood asked each of the three, so please take about 60 seconds.
Mr. Black: That is an extraordinarily important question.
China’s role — not just China’s role but also Russia’s role in a different way on the continent — is really altering the geopolitical landscape in Africa. It comes back to a point that Dr. Preston McGhie made, which is that we are not going to be able to match the kinds of resources commitments that these countries are prepared to provide, but what we can do is engage in a more dialogic approach with African partners rather than coming in with a formula that we impose upon them. We need to establish a more dialogic relationship. There are certainly things — niches — that I really did not get to speak to in terms of universities, oceans and people with disabilities — there are things we can do that are distinct and that would build bridges to particular countries.
Mr. Akuffo: Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.
We still have a very good relationship with the African continent. In fact, as I said in my conclusion, if I were to have had a chance to mention it, we are somehow an unwilling partner. We are seen positively on the African continent. We do not have that kind of colonial baggage that other states have, and we don’t project a belligerent image on the continent. That gives us a way to engage Africa diplomatically and make quick efforts to try to rekindle this relationship and put resources behind that diplomatic engagement. Thank you.
Ms. Preston McGhie: I would add one thing other than to agree with the other two witnesses on this.
It isn’t actually “no strings attached.” It might have appeared so, but it is not. A lot of this is coming home to roost as debts are called in. We are seeing economic crises in countries across the region. People are recognizing that nothing comes for free. Again, to reiterate, if we are deep, strategic and genuine in our partnerships, there are spaces for us, despite the changes going on in the region.
The Deputy Chair: Colleagues, we have five minutes for round two and two senators who wish to ask questions. I will have those senators to ask their questions, and then I will ask each of the panellists to respond as they see fit.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I would like to continue along the same lines as Senator Greenwood.
There are indeed many countries that are interested in Africa right now, and it is not just China. Many countries around the world are holding summits on the African continent or elsewhere: the Africa-Japan summit, the China-Africa summit, the European Union-African Union summit and so forth. Türkiye, Russia, France and the United Kingdom are also interested. Our neighbours to the south have already held — I think there have been two editions of the US-African Leaders summit so far.
Do you think that Canada should also hold a summit of African leaders, either in Canada or in Africa? What would the benefits and potential impact of such a summit be, for Canada and Africa alike?
[English]
Senator Coyle: I would like to delve more deeply on the points made around academic, educational and research partnerships between Africa and Canada. Those have been suggested by all of you, but perhaps I can start with Professor Akuffo.
The Deputy Chair: We will start with Professor Black, out of respect to the screen, and then we will go to the table.
Mr. Black: Senator Gerba, I have mixed feelings about the idea that the price of admission for engagement with Africa is to host a high-level summit. I would prefer to see a much deeper engagement in a substantive way around specific issues in particular countries and regions. We can achieve more. It would look hollow if we were engaging in this without backing it up, as we have done in the last few years.
On educational research, for Senator Coyle, university-to-university networks could be extraordinarily valuable. There are some models proposed in terms of Canada-South Africa university networks. I also wish to stress this other level, which is an alternative development ecosystem of arm’s length research institutions that can bridge between academic researchers and governments and pursue the track 2 approach.
Mr. Akuffo: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Regarding the forum, I will take a slightly different response to Professor Black. I agree there needs to be a high-level engagement with the African continent. The Canadian government and the African Union have the Canada-Africa Union high-level diplomatic dialogue. We need to strengthen that and include the regional economic communities in that dialogue. It does not necessarily have to be brought into the whole of the African region at the onset, but it’s important to engage with the African Union and the regional economic communities which have actually already been established for economic regional integration and for political development. We can do that.
On the education partnership, I agree with what Professor Black said. We can look for opportunities and offer engagement. One of these opportunities for engagement is to actually work hard to promote academic interest in the study of the Canada-Africa relationship itself. Professor Black said earlier that there are colleagues doing important work that has relevance for Canada and its relationship with the African continent. That is great, but we need to study the relationship itself and promote that in our academic institutions.
Ms. Preston McGhie: I would propose an alternative formulation for the summit entirely, which would be around leadership. That is not necessarily government. Some of the most phenomenal leaders that I have come across in my life are across the African continent.
We run the Global Pluralism Award, which some of you are aware of, where we surface phenomenal leaders on the continent and elsewhere. If we were to engage in something like that, I would propose that we look at questions of leadership with our African partners and pull together gatherings that really celebrate leadership across the continent in the areas in which we are working.
As a last word, because I did not respond to it, on the question of women, peace and security, this is an area that remains central and salient in the work that Canada is doing and should continue to do and deepen in the region.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you to the panel. We appreciate your participation, your patience with us on starting late and your willingness to go over the time allocated. Thank you on behalf of my Senate colleagues.
[Translation]
For our second panel of witnesses, we welcome Garreth Bloor, President of the Canada-Africa Chamber of Business, and Paula Caldwell St-Onge, Chair of the Board. We also welcome my friend Jean-Louis Roy, President of Partenariat International. He is very knowledgeable about Africa.
[English]
Welcome to you all. We’d like to hear your opening statements. You have five minutes, and then I will start to get fidgety. We will start with Ms. Caldwell St-Onge.
[Translation]
Paula Caldwell St-Onge, Chair of the Board, Canada-Africa Chamber of Business: Thank you for the invitation to put forward some views from the Canada-Africa Chamber of Business.
We are celebrating our 30th anniversary this year.
[English]
We do feel there is momentum building in our Canada-Africa relationship. We look forward to the Senate recommendations to help this momentum. We will, of course, support your recommendations and try to implement some of them.
[Translation]
I will now hand it over to Garreth Bloor, the president, who does all the work and will provide the opening remarks for the Canada-Africa Chamber of Business.
[English]
Garreth Bloor, President, The Canada-Africa Chamber of Business: Thank you, Mr. Chair and senators.
Canada is a partner of choice, as we’ve heard time and again from African markets. It’s a comparative advantage upon which we believe that we should build. We’re bilingual and share Commonwealth and francophonie memberships, have a large and growing African diaspora populations of Canadians who are leaders in education, green technologies, agriculture, infrastructure, as well as natural resource development, as we have heard at many of the conferences that we run across Canada and on the continent.
A more coherent, coordinated and responsive Canadian approach toward African markets would have important spillover effects for Canada’s diplomatic, economic and security efforts more broadly. I am newer to Canada, but many often speak of Team Canada. That is a fondness that we hear from among our members in terms of working together toward demonstrating that the importance of trade diversification attached to the African continent is real and substantive, and some have gone so far as to talk about a Team Canada mandate for the African continent along the lines of what we are seeing in the Indo-Pacific region.
The Canada-Africa Chamber of Business is pleased that Global Affairs Canada has engaged in a continuing policy dialogue with the African Union. As we seek to elevate our game, I will emphasize something we heard earlier. The chamber’s view is that in terms of those that we have spoken to, a summit along the lines of what we have seen in other countries like the United States, Russia, China and so forth would go far not in replacing the substantive engagement discussed earlier but in really enhancing that and bringing together the private sectors and leaders. These are platforms that strengthen relationships and focus the minds of those who gather on one single platform.
Canada is recognized on the continent as a major supporter of the African Continental Free Trade Area agreement, an example where development and trade have come together to recognize the important role that Canada can play as an invited partner to the continent. Other programs that have gained popularity which we hear are well respected include the Trade Facilitation Office work and Catalyste+, and I’m sure that you may hear from them if you have not already.
Our free trade success as a country is a model for a continent committed to this endeavour. If you look across the African continent, free trade is not something abstract. It’s not just a commitment, but we have seen regional integration happen already to date. As the continent charts its own destiny and invites us as an equal partner in that story, Canada continues to work in unleashing prosperity for the common good.
Of course, the benefits of this equal relationship through strength and the rule of law, and the standards to which many have committed, will decrease risk to our Canadian companies in the context of trade diversification. Canada’s private sector can play a key role in the economic growth component that is vital to the overall agenda for development in Canada and vital to our economic trade diversification strategy here at home. The success of regional economic integration to date is a testament that the prospects for the African continent are not abstract but indeed very real.
Mr. Chair, if you look at the growth, the vast open space of agricultural potential and the natural resource potential are two of many sectors where Canada can rapidly accelerate trade diversification. Already we see a number of Canadian companies achieving enormous success, bringing clean technologies, and doing so in the context of environmental concerns, putting those at the forefront. This is a template we can apply to a range of industries, and we are seeing invitations from many countries, most recently the DRC, in terms of wanting more private sector engagement, bringing on what Canadian companies have to offer and working in partnership with local peers.
Our organization is entirely funded by the private sector, and we’re grateful to our sponsors, but we’re also thankful to the Trade Commissioner Service on the continent, as well as our ambassadors and high commissioners so we can deliver the events on the continents and here at home with their participation. They are, in our view, certainly in terms of discussion with our members, a strong point to help Canadian companies abroad. However, not all of the important markets are covered, as was alluded to earlier, so of course, to have a greater spread would be useful covering each one of the important markets across the continent.
Other programs like CanExport have been used, though some of them have observed they are getting smaller, so for companies seeking to attend opportunities on the continent, that is a resource.
Our mission to accelerate trade and investment really is through business-to-business engagement and networking opportunities. At every conference, we provide public policy leaders — presidents, prime ministers, ministers — an opportunity to set the context for the growth and the development agenda that is important and which we as Canadian companies and indeed all private sector companies seek to build in terms of the private sector playing its role in overall growth.
Thank you, chair.
[Translation]
Jean-Louis Roy, President, Partenariat International: I am pleased to be joining you.
I think there is a Canadian way of connecting with the rest of the world, and we have used that approach everywhere except in Africa. We have signed two free-trade agreements with our partners in North America. We have signed a free-trade agreement with the European Union. We have an Indo-Pacific strategy, but no structured relationship as a country with the continent we are discussing today. Why? That is another discussion and I will get back to that later.
The most important thing for the coming years — and I am pleased to hear Mr. Bloor’s remarks — is that Canada must make three or four things a priority and do them quickly. First, it must support investment. African needs investment in its infrastructures, for the development of its cities, for job creation, industrialization and so forth. So first of all, private sector and public sector investment must be supported, and public funding must also be provided for certain projects.
It is very surprising. When I look at the calls for tenders from the World Bank, the African Development Bank and the Asian Development Bank relating to Africa, Canada has very little presence. In our areas of strengths such as energy and agriculture, areas in which Canada has strong expertise and something to say to the world, we are not present at all. It is as though the African continent had been left out of Canada’s DNA. It is serious. For three years, we have been hearing that there will be a strategy for Africa, but I read the minister’s statement carefully, and it said that first there will be a strategy for the Arctic, and then a strategy for Africa.
What is going on? Why is it that we have strategies for our economic relationships with the rest of the world, but nothing with Africa? If you look at the three lists of the most important countries in the world…. For example, six of the G7 countries have detailed agreements with Africa, but Canada has none. Looking at the G20, but excluding its four African members, 14 of the 16 remaining members hold summits, have significant investments and make resources available for their relationship with Africa, but not Canada. It’s the same thing with the third group, the BRIC countries. Excluding African countries, all the BRIC countries have robust agreements, along with significant resources, with the African countries, but not Canada.
So there is a real problem. Support for investment must be a priority.
Secondly, trade with Africa must be developed. It is outrageous to see how countries such as Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, India…. I am not talking just about China in Asia, but all of Asia, which has a massive presence with substantial investments on the African continent, generating profits and contributing to African economic development. Asia is making profits — and that’s a good thing since that’s what they are there for — and I think we are a bit lean. We are not doing anything. Honestly, what we are doing is very limited, extremely limited. For years, I served on federal boards overseeing those matters and observed that Africa was at the bottom of the list and sometimes not even on the list at all. Consider for example the number of Export Development Canada offices in Africa compared to Latin America and you will be shocked. That is the truth. That is what we say to each other when we are not talking to public servants.
I don’t understand why we set aside the free-trade agreements that we had started to negotiate with certain African countries, such as Morocco. Canada suddenly put an end to all of that. Canada needs to sit down again with certain African countries, with the AfCFTA, a large group that is doing quite well, and someday conclude an agreement with the African continent like it has with the rest of the world.
Thank you.
The Deputy Chair: We have a list for the questions. Once again, may I remind you that you have four minutes for the question and the answer.
[English]
Senator MacDonald: I will direct my first question to Mr. Roy since he touched upon the question I was going to ask him, which is free trade agreements with Africa. We know that we will not outspend Russia or China or the U.S. or Singapore when it comes to exercising influence. If we engage in free trade agreements that reflect our values and our long-term interests, what are the potential risks for Canada if it expands its economic and diplomatic efforts in this region, particularly with regard to the regional conflicts that exist?
Mr. Roy: Africa is 54 countries, and about 8 of them are in deep trouble. That is the reality. If you look at Asia, would you invest in North Korea or Myanmar? In all parts of the world, you will find a certain number of countries that are in deep difficulty. That’s the case in Africa for sure, but you have many countries in Africa that try and don’t always succeed as we or they would wish, but they are moving in a good direction and we have to support them.
[Translation]
Security in Africa is a real issue. It’s a real issue in Latin America and Asia. Global security is a major issue. When we talk about Africa, security is always a priority, whereas it’s never a priority in our discussions on other parts of the world. Africa’s liabilities always come up first for some reason. They exist, and we can’t say they don’t. However, they aren’t significant enough to make everything else disappear.
[English]
Senator MacDonald: I was shocked to read that only 1% of our international trade is with Africa. I would have assumed it was more than that.
Besides the usual focus on commodities, how can Canada really make its mark on emerging sectors like clean technology, digital innovation and things of this nature? What are some of the major structural or geopolitical hurdles we will have to face? My question is to anyone who thinks they are qualified to speak to it.
Mr. Bloor: Thank you very much, senator.
As an example, next week we are in Zimbabwe. We have over a dozen Canadian companies, and the most important things for many of them is to have potential partners and to understand the market and to know that when there are challenges, that they have the support of the local embassy. I think in all of those cases, clearly a testament to the number of companies interested, it shows that it is sufficient to take an interest.
One of the things I love about Canada’s private sector and the dynamism is it is not as dire a conversation as comparing government resources in Canada with other countries, because the strength of our private sector relative to many other countries I think is fantastic. The ability to deploy capital and skills and expertise — we can go into specific projects — is there. I would say those three ingredients are very important to expand beyond, as you say, the mineral sector.
[Translation]
Mr. Roy: Could you please summarize the question, Mr. Deputy Chair?
[English]
The Deputy Chair: What areas of business investment and opportunity for trade do you see Canada having beyond the commodities?
Mr. Roy: If you look at what happened in the United States when they opened their markets for African products, a lot of things came from Africa in fabrics, all kinds of jewellery, all kinds of foods. We have to open our market and see what they will have to offer. We can offer a lot to Africa; I’m sure of that.
[Translation]
As I said earlier, energy, for example, is an absolutely key area for Africa right now. Alberta, Ontario, Quebec and other provinces have a great deal to offer in terms of fossil fuels, atomic energy and hydroelectric power, which few other countries can provide. The same applies to renewable energy. It’s a major industry, along with farm management. I know that this is a matter of debate. We won’t get into it here. Our African friends are interested in protecting the supply. How do we manage it? They would benefit from seeing how we in Canada manage the growth of an industry that must feed 2.4 billion people in 25 years.
[English]
Senator Ravalia: Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
My first question will be addressed to Mr. Bloor. From a business perspective, what are the biggest challenges you face when entering the African market, particularly in sectors like infrastructure and technology? Do you feel that a partnership between the private sector and the Canadian government would help to ease some of the challenges, particularly with respect to regulatory barriers, et cetera?
Mr. Bloor: Thanks very much.
As a chamber, we don’t directly do any of the deals. We have a forum for the companies that do them.
We find, for a lot of the companies, often financing in terms of risk, things like political risk, insurance instruments offered, for example, by the African Trade Insurance Agency, where Canada has given some support, are tools that can be used to mitigate.
From a regulatory perspective, it is not always the regulations themselves that are at issue but changes that are perhaps unprecedented, don’t go through the parliament or through ministerial decree, and there we have seen our ambassadors actively engage counterparts in-market. It is very reassuring for Canadian businesses and has been able to unblock some of the potential challenges with moving a project forward.
I would put the context referred to earlier that the challenges are not unlike challenges you can encounter anywhere, and the variations of those challenges are as different as the world is varied. I would reflect on those in particular.
Senator Ravalia: If I can shift gears to a more human rights basis — I’m not sure how much you are engaged in all of this — we read about stories of child exploitation, trafficking, conflict and violence. Canada has significant mining operations through Africa. To what extent are these operations being monitored to minimize the risk of these untoward human right abuses?
[Translation]
Mr. Roy: Thank you, senator, for your question on human rights. I was thinking of proposing that Canada keep supporting certain major African institutions. These institutions include the African Development Bank, which has received a substantial contribution from Canada of $365 million over three years; the African Union, for all the reasons that you know about; and the African Commission on Human and Peoples’ Rights. This highly skilled group has been doing outstanding work under difficult circumstances for a long time.
In terms of human rights, one of our tasks in Africa, as a Western country, is to provide solid, sustainable, real and constant support for civil society. Democracy will be built by civil society. Not the African political class. Democracy will be built by civil society. By women’s groups.
We talk about China in Africa. There are many Chinese NGOs in Africa, and not just the government. We must support our own. They’re now competing like never before in the field for access to water, health care, education for girls, and so on. There’s a real issue here in terms of rights and civil society.
You said that Africa has issues, but there are issues everywhere. I was the president of Rights and Democracy for six years. We worked in Latin America on extremely challenging matters. We worked in Asia, in particular on human trafficking. This wasn’t a good scene either. We worked in Africa. Human rights are an issue everywhere. The issue does arise in some African countries. To be honest, the situation is currently declining somewhat. We must acknowledge it and say so. There have been some steps backwards in terms of rights, particularly in countries where military coups have taken place.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you, Mr. Roy.
[English]
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for being here this evening.
I will direct my question to the Canada-Africa Chamber of Business folks, but of course, anyone can respond. We are looking at engagement in Africa. We all know Africa is a big and diverse place — we are continuously reminded of that in a variety of ways — so it cannot be a one-size-fits-all proposition. I’m trying to think where Canada can best invest its limited diplomatic resources to best develop not only a mutual beneficial relationship in trade and bilateralism but also to stimulate the investment and growth within African countries themselves, so a two-way piece.
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: Thank you for that question.
We do see specific countries coming to the chamber asking for specific Canadian help. One of them, going to Senator Ravalia’s question, was coming to us because Canadian companies do show responsible business conduct. We do have policies for that. Canadian companies abide by that. They are well known for their whole ESG practices. DRC specifically — I think your question might have stemmed from that particular country — is coming to us. We had a summit there in February. We are going back. They really want a different way to do business. They are specifically asking for Canadian companies in the services, mining and agriculture sectors to come and take a bit of the pie away from China and some of the other countries that are not respecting their communities, not training and giving capacity to their people on the ground. It is very heartwarming. We are trying to say, “Yes, we are there.”
Education is another sector — when you are asking for different sectors, there is ITC, clean energy, education. We have a lot of expertise in Canada that we are very willing to transfer and share with others. This whole technology transfer as well as knowledge sharing is something Canada is well known for. I think this is what makes us special. We do have a priority place.
As a chamber, I’m very proud that they specifically come and say they want Canadians. Zimbabwe next week — there are 10 Canadian companies, but we have 25 Canadian companies. Some of them are already on the continent, so we didn’t put them in the numbers. We have an important momentum going in.
To your question, we have specific sectors and specific countries. As a chamber, with our relationship with the Trade Commissioner Service and the embassies, we are trying to bring them forward and help. Yes, we do more need help on the ground. The Trade Commissioner Service has one locally engaged staff in the DRC for the whole of the DRC, and they report to Cameroon, as an example. There are some specific areas I’m sure the government is looking into how they can better it with the scarce resources. We have the private sector that can partner and bring things to the table.
Senator M. Deacon: I’m trying to think about that. The practices are respected, so it’s “Canada, please come and play with us.” Are there some countries that are losing patience with Canada and are willing to take — I’m going to call it — the faster buck? That’s maybe not a far thing to say — but they will jump, because they don’t see Canada’s response being progressive and fast enough?
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: “Yes” and “no.” They are accepting help from other countries that are there right away that maybe don’t have all the hoops and hurdles we do. At the same time, they are not giving up hope. They say they still want us on the continent. There is still a lot of room to grow, and they would still like to be partners. When we talk about China, but we are also partners with China. We can work with other countries, and we can better each other. It is not an if/or or black and while either. We have our space.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I want to thank our guests. I know all of them and I worked with them a great deal in my previous life.
I have a quick question for the Canada-Africa Chamber of Business. How are other countries supporting their companies on the African continent, and how can Canada learn from them? That’s my first question.
My second question is for Mr. Roy. You touched on this briefly. The population of sub-Saharan Africa is set to double by 2050 to 2.4 billion. This means that one in four people will be African by 2050. With over 200 million people aged 15 to 24, Africa has the largest young population in the world.
In your opinion, how does this great vitality of African youth present challenges and opportunities, and how should Canada support the education in particular and training of these young Africans?
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: I won’t talk about other countries. I’ll talk about Quebec. We should perhaps draw inspiration from the Africa strategy that Quebec implemented with $54 million. It works extremely well. The strategy has five pillars that are important to Quebec. I’m sure that Canada can also draw inspiration from them. On that note, I’ll give the floor to Mr. Bloor.
[English]
Mr. Bloor: To show a two-way street, there is something like visas. A lot of people say they would love to visit Canada, but yet they’re waiting for a period of time that is unlike any other country. To demonstrate that business goes two ways would go a long way. To be able to receive people here and just get that right with reasonable visa processing times would be fantastic.
I would add the point on presence. A summit gets huge media attention, creates a narrative and does build on leadership that I have seen other countries do very well with.
[Translation]
Mr. Roy: Regarding education, I was pleased earlier to hear comments about universities. I think that Canadians need to have a bit of imagination. When it comes to Africa and higher education in Africa, Canada can provide something that no other country in the world can. It can provide a high level of education in English and French on the African continent.
I can see HEC Montréal, a large school in Toronto and a big school in Calgary or Vancouver — it doesn’t matter — working together to provide bilingual programs in French-speaking Africa and in certain parts of English-speaking Africa where French plays an important role.
As far as basic education is concerned, 300 million children will be entering African schools over the next 10 years. Some schools can’t properly serve the children who are already there.
If we don’t take action, and if the Western countries don’t take action, others will. They’ll come from the Emirates and Saudi Arabia for the most part, for all Arabic-speaking Africa. The future of Islam and the Arabic language will play out enormously in Africa as well. Others will come from Asia. This has already begun.
The need is there. Canada’s diplomatic history includes traditions and ways of joining forces around the world that would help the country take a fresh look at education in Africa with others. Africa’s children will be educated by others or primarily by Africans with the support of others. These others will be us, or those I referred to earlier.
[English]
Senator Coyle: Thank you very much to all of our witnesses. This is a very enriching conversation. I have two questions, and I’ll put them both out there.
First, with these business relationships that we are talking about, I would like to understand the role of women on both sides, Canada and Africa. We have an African woman entrepreneur in our Senate. We know African women are dynamic business leaders. What level of women’s participation is there in the chamber? What could be done to increase it, if that needs to be done? That’s my first question.
The second question relates a little bit to the previous point that Mr. Roy was speaking about with education, but this is more about employment. All those young people desperately need jobs, and we know the private sector is going to be critical for providing jobs. How big a consideration is that? Are there specific efforts being made to help foster employment creation through these business partnerships that are flourishing — we hope — and will flourish more in the future?
Mr. Bloor: Thank you very much.
First, around the role of women in the context of the objectives of inclusivity, thanks to our sponsors, the majority of participants at all our programs don’t pay. That allows us to bring in people who can be at the table and have some of these discussions. In Washington, very recently at our U.S.-Canada collaborative forum on Africa, we looked at around 43 different drivers of gender equality and the relationship between these different economic variables.
I mention that because whenever we have discussions, our mandate is “networking for business development and information-sharing.” I think including it in every conversation and conference has been vitally important, but then ensuring that everyone is at the table as well. That is a key component of our model as an organization, to be responsive both here and on the continent as well.
I do not want to take too much time but wanted to answer on that.
[Translation]
Mr. Roy: Thank you for your question about women, senator. Canada also has an important tradition. Starting with the Mulroney government, and continuing with the Liberal government and the Harper government, which took a strong position on women’s health in Africa, this remains part of the Canadian footprint in Africa. It’s slowly disappearing, but there are still bits and pieces. The major pieces include the fact that, for a long time, Canada has been increasingly insistent on bringing the issue of equality and women to the forefront in all areas, including business, and it hasn’t wavered.
I was talking earlier about the importance of civil society. An important part of African civil society is made up of women’s movements that know that Canada has supported them and that hope that our country will continue to support them: We must not make too many speeches, and we need a little more resources and respect when we go to verify the work. We can’t ask a group of women from northern Mali to have the same verification rules as a group of sophisticated women in Winnipeg or Sherbrooke, Quebec. We have to be smart in our cooperation programs. We’ve done some absurd things in some cases. We get to eight Canadians and announce that there’s no more money to fund a program. Clearly, this practice has to stop.
On the question of employment, there are millions of jobs. The real question is there, and I thank you for asking it. There are many young people who are educated, many of them are well educated, they all have cellphones, they’re all on Google, they know exactly what’s going on in the world, but they’re selling gum on the street corner at the age of 25, with two bachelor’s degrees and a master’s degree. They don’t want to do that anymore. Look at what happened in Kenya: The streets came close to bringing down the government. It was the streets that brought down the democratic government of Mali and Burkina Faso. It is the streets that risk bringing down the governments of Senegal, Côte d’Ivoire, Togo and Benin. The streets are made up of tens of thousands of young people who don’t have a job and who want to have a life other than the one they have. That’s why I started by saying earlier that we absolutely have to invest in Africa and create economic activity on the continent.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you, Mr. Roy.
[English]
Senator Al Zaibak: Thank you to our guests for being here.
Aside from bilateral trade issues and challenges, can you give us a sense of Canada’s approach and strategy regarding investments and investment opportunities in various sectors in Africa in comparison to investment philosophies and approaches by other nations like China, Europe and the U.S.? The question is open, but starting with the chamber.
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: I will touch on the investment opportunities. We all know that 43% of the Canadian investment in Africa is in our natural resources sector. On the other hand, we have a growing agricultural sector, which I think we could focus on and look at what programs we could benefit from. That is a Global Affairs/Agriculture Canada mandate, if you will. We have companies that are very happy to invest in Africa in the whole agricultural sector. I think that is a growing need.
We also have investment opportunities in manufacturing. We also have investment opportunities in the whole critical minerals and the battery section. We have manufacturing of cathodes, anodes, et cetera, from our mining sector. They are willing to do that whole vertical integration on the continent. We have to leave some of the value-added products and not just export raw materials from the continent.
[Translation]
We have to see how we can leave some added value on the continent with the resources being developed in Africa. That’s how companies react; we help them, and we’re very proud of that.
[English]
They sponsor our events in Africa, too, for that.
[Translation]
Mr. Roy: Thank you for the question. There’s one thing that strikes me about the way we’re doing things in Canada right now; I want us to succeed, particularly in terms of our presence in Africa. I think one thing that a number of countries are doing and we’re not doing…. It’s Global Affairs Canada that negotiates everything with these two branches, which replaced CIDA, cooperation and trade. Where is agriculture, where is energy, and where are the ministries? Japan has 17 ministries contributing to Japanese policy in Africa. There are 17 ministries involved in defining, managing and implementing Japan’s policy in Africa. Let me come back to what other countries are doing. We don’t have enough time, unfortunately, because you would be surprised to see that small countries like Korea and Singapore are investing billions of dollars in Africa. They’re convinced that there’s a significant return. When we talk about China investing $50 billion over three years and India investing $40 billion over three years, what strikes me is Indonesia and Malaysia. China and India — we know about that. We know less about the others. When I see Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam arriving in large numbers in Africa, I think that something is happening and that we’re missing it.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Greenwood: Thank you to our guests for being here.
I have two questions, one for the chamber and one for Mr. Roy. The first question is — and you touched on this. I wonder if you could elaborate on the local capacity building. You say that you have many businesses and ambassadors. How are you building the local capacity of the communities?
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: It is not the chamber itself that builds capacity, but what we have seen and do is that some of our members who are businesses train and hire from the local communities. They train the local communities. That is very much in support of your local capacity.
We also have some programs like our Trade Facilitation Office, which I believe is still funded by Global Affairs Canada. We have Catalyste+ that is a whole bunch of Canadian expertise that is free, if people are willing to accept and want this. It is very hard to explain. Catalyste+ is something that is very important for local training capacities. I will go into it later in our detailed comments because I want to hand the floor over to Jean-Louis so that he can say something more.
Senator Greenwood: I have a different question. You have already spoken about education. I wondered if you could elaborate more on that and about the role of Canada. I’m wondering how Canada would or does or can play a role in developing education with local communities. We talked about people being educated. You spoke of other people coming in and teaching them and that we are not there. Would we partner with local communities? Would we partner with the people themselves to develop that kind of education for their children and what they see as important?
Mr. Roy: We would have to listen to them first, how they see their needs and how we can help them to organize the offering, starting with how they see their needs.
We have to bring to Africa in the next decades a lot of technology. We will have to talk to large groups of kids, 300, 400, maybe, at 6 years old. We have to develop a new pedagogy, completely different. That is the first time in the history of the world. You will have hundreds of millions of kids who will walk into their village and knock at the door, and they would like to have a teacher and would listen to a teacher.
[Translation]
This is an extraordinary file. There is a huge amount of work to be done on pedagogy for large groups and African national languages that are going to play an increasingly important role. I spent quite a bit of time recently in Ethiopia. I saw East Africa, which I knew less about than West Africa, and I saw just how much national languages are penetrating schools everywhere. Two or three languages have to be taught in schools. These are extraordinary educational challenges. Africans can’t do this alone. Take Quebec, for example. In 1960, Quebecers aged 13 and over were no longer in school when we had the Quiet Revolution. We needed the help of the Belgians, the Swiss and the French to help us educate Quebecers back then, because they needed it. Africans need help with educating their children. If we don’t, others will; our interests will not be served and neither will our values.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Colleagues, I remind you that we have a hard stop at 6:15 p.m. For the second round, I have only Senator Gerba. I would ask her to ask her question quickly and give whoever she directs the question to the opportunity to finish this session.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I have a question about AGOA. You’re all familiar with the American program, the African Growth and Opportunity Act, which gives African-made products access to American markets. Do you think Canada could use AGOA as a model to establish trade and increase our trade with Africa?
[English]
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: I would say yes.
Mr. Roy: I would say yes also. Perfect, the chair is delighted.
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: Canada does have some programs that exempt textiles, et cetera, from the least developed countries and so on. We have something to grow on. We do have something already.
[Translation]
Mr. Roy: The answer is yes.
Ms. Caldwell St-Onge: The answer is yes.
[English]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you, panellists, and thank you, senators. Colleagues, I want to thank the panel for their participation and patience with us for starting late. Thank you for your questions.
Before I adjourn the meeting, I remind colleagues that we are meeting tomorrow morning for one hour at 11:30 a.m., followed by a steering committee meeting. We have one panel tomorrow. Thank you, all, very much. The chair will return tomorrow.
(The committee adjourned.)