THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON AUDIT AND OVERSIGHT
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, December 8, 2021
The Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight met with videoconference this day at 6 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Maxime Fortin, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Wells: I would like to nominate Senator Klyne as chair.
Ms. Fortin: Are there any other nominations?
Seeing none, it is moved by the Honourable Senator Wells:
That the Honourable Senator Klyne do take the chair of this committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Fortin: I declare the motion carried, and I invite Senator Klyne to take the chair.
Senator Marty Klyne (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you. I wanted to acknowledge the heavy lifting and the excellent work of our outgoing chair, Senator Wells.
I am extremely confident with the solid bench strength and support we have in our administrative staff, researchers and committee members. With that, we need to move to the election of deputy chairs. Do we have a mover?
Senator Downe: Chair, first of all, I would like to congratulate you on your appointment as chair. And I would like to move:
That the Honourable Senators Wells and Dupuis be deputy chairs of this committee.
The Chair: Excellent. Senator Dupuis and Senator Wells, do you have any remarks you would like to make?
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: First of all, thank you, Senator Downe, for putting my name forward. Congratulations to Senator Klyne and thank you. Congratulations also to Senator Wells for chairing the committee so far.
I am very encouraged about the work we have to do for the future. I think we’ve shown that we can do a good job and that we have worked well together. So, I am very much ready to continue.
[English]
Senator Wells: Thank you for those kind words, Senator Dupuis.
Senator Klyne, congratulations on your election as chair. I know you will do a great job, and I look forward to continuing with the good work, after the intercessional authority and our previous full-authority committee. It is an enjoyable team to work with — with Senator Downe and Senator Dupuis — and I appreciate the kind words that you both had for me regarding my chairmanship. With the team bringing it to this point, I look forward to getting it to the next set of milestones. I know there is a lot of work on our plate, but we have some great support staff. I appreciate all the work that everyone has done. Thank you, and I am happy to serve at your pleasure.
The Chair: Thank you. We will now move to our third agenda item, planning of the agenda. We need a mover.
Senator Wells: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Wells:
That, the chair, in consultation with the deputy chairs, be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings; and
That, for substantive issues related to the mandate of the committee that are not of a merely administrative or routine nature, the chair shall not convene meetings nor take decisions until the external members have been appointed by the Senate.
All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: On to our fourth agenda item, which pertains to research staff. We need a mover for that.
Senator Wells: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Wells:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research analysts to the committee, as may be required;
That the chair and deputy chairs be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research and administration staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. The library has assigned the same two analysts from the previous session, Lindsay McGlashan and Raphaëlle Deraspe.
Our fifth agenda item is a motion to publish the committee’s proceedings. We need a mover.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move the motion.
[English]
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Dupuis moved:
That the committee publish its proceedings.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. The sixth agenda item deals with the financial report. We need a mover.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move the motion.
[English]
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Dupuis moved:
That the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 12-26(2).
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
The seventh item is communications. Do we have a mover for that?
The Honourable Senator Wells moved:
That the chair and deputy chairs be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work.
Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. I am pleased to report that Michael Forian will remain as the communications officer for the Audit and Oversight Committee in this new session.
Our next agenda item is the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. We need a mover for that.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move the motion.
[English]
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Dupuis:
That, pursuant to Section 7, Chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chairs, and the clerk of the committee;
That, pursuant to Section 8, Chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chairs, and the clerk of the committee; and
That, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. Item 9 deals with travelling and living expenses of witnesses.
Senator Downe: So moved.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Downe:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. Moving on to item 10, and I am looking for a mover. It’s about the in camera transcripts.
Senator Wells: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Wells:
That in camera transcripts and documents be kept with the clerk for consultation by committee members; and
That no records be destroyed without authorization from the committee.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. Agenda item 11 pertains to senators’ staff. I need a mover for that.
Senator Downe: I move.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Downe:
That each committee member be allowed to have one staff person present at in camera meetings.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. Item 12 deals with the appointment of external members. We have a draft of the first report which has been circulated to senators of the committee. Does anyone wish to review these in detail?
Senator Wells: I’d just like to comment on them, chair, if I may.
The Chair: Please.
Senator Wells: It’s not unlike what was brought to the chamber in June of this year, in the last Parliament. I’ve been through it in some great detail. Again, there are not a lot of changes, but obviously changes to some of the dates. But the amounts we agreed on in our previous committee meetings and what has been approved by the Senate in the past, none of that has changed. I think that draft is worthwhile and ready to go to the Senate if we have the agreement from our colleagues.
The Chair: Are we ready to accept the first report that has been circulated?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Agenda item 13 is referral of past evidence. Yes, of course.
Is it agreed:
That the chair be authorized to seek the authority of the Senate to cause that the papers and evidence received and taken and the work accomplished or produced by the Standing Senate Committee on Audit and Oversight during the Second Session of the Forty-third Parliament be referred to the committee.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: We’re coming close here. Other business. We should talk about the next meeting. Between myself and the clerk, we’ll talk to individual committee members. Of course, we’re going to be on our Christmas break. We’ll find out what kind of Christmas holidays people are looking at and when there is some mutually convenient dates for everyone on the committee and available staff for translation and such. After our first report, we can also survey the external members.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: Am I to understand that the second report that was sent to us needs to be adopted today as well?
[English]
The Chair: In the financial report, that was part of the movement that the committee adopted the first draft report prepared in accordance with rule 12-26(2) and that first report, plus referring to the second —
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: On the second sheet we received today, it was listed as the second report. Shouldn’t a report normally be made at the organizational meeting of the committee on the expenses incurred in the previous session? Am I the only one who received this document?
Ms. Fortin: Senator Dupuis, the report has been adopted; it was item 6 on the agenda.
Senator Dupuis: I’m sorry.
Ms. Fortin: It was prepared in accordance with rule 12-26.
Senator Dupuis: That’s what I didn’t understand. Just to clarify, when motion 6 was adopted, I thought that the first report was the one concerning the external members. So that wasn’t the case?
Ms. Fortin: The first report concerning the external members was item 12 on the agenda, so the two reports have been adopted.
Senator Dupuis: Okay. Why is it indicated that the second report concerns the external members’ project? Yes, it does say that it is the first report. Why does item 6 say that it’s the first report, when on the sheet we were sent, it says it’s the second report?
Ms. Fortin: I’m sorry, that’s a mistake on our part. Item 6 should say “second report.”
Senator Dupuis: I want to make sure that we’re on the same page. Is the draft that was sent to us indeed the draft of the second report?
Ms. Fortin: Yes, the draft of the second report is item 6 on the agenda.
Senator Dupuis: Perfect. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you for raising that and our minutes will reflect that it’s the first and second report of this motion for the financial report.
That’s what gives me great confidence, the stalwart senators on board.
Senator Dupuis: I can’t help it, chair. I read papers that are sent to me, and I just can’t help it.
The Chair: I’m counting on that. Thank you.
Would the members care for a quick update on status of other reports and files before we adjourn?
Senator Wells: Sure, I would like to go in camera to discuss tomorrow’s activities.
The Chair: We can do both of those in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)