THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON INDIGENOUS PEOPLES
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, April 9, 2024
The Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples met this day at 9 a.m. [ET] to study Bill S-16, An Act respecting the recognition of the Haida Nation and the Council of the Haida Nation.
Senator Brian Francis (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning, everyone. I’d like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we gather is the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation and is now home to many other First Nations, Métis and Inuit people from across Turtle Island.
I am Mi’kmaw Senator Brian Francis from Epekwitk, also known as Prince Edward Island, and I am the Chair of the Committee on Indigenous Peoples.
I will now ask committee members in attendance to introduce themselves by stating their names and province or territory, starting on my left.
Senator Martin: Good morning. Yonah Martin, British Columbia.
Senator Prosper: Good morning. Senator P. J. Prosper, Nova Scotia, land of the Mi’kmaq people.
Senator Sorensen: Good morning. Senator Sorensen, Alberta, Treaty 7 territory.
Senator Coyle: Mary Coyle, Mi’kma’ki, Antigonish, Nova Scotia.
Senator Greenwood: Margo Greenwood, British Columbia, originally from Treaty 6 territory in central Alberta.
The Chair: Today, we will begin the committee study on Bill S-16, An Act respecting the recognition of the Haida Nation and the Council of the Haida Nation. I would now like to introduce our witness. President Gaagwiis, wela’lin, thank you for joining us today.
President Gaagwiis will provide opening remarks of approximately five minutes, which will be followed by a question-and-answer session with the senators. I will now invite President Gaagwiis to give his opening remarks.
Gaagwiis, President, Council of the Haida Nation: Hello, Senator Francis. Good morning, committee members. It’s good to be here today for this exciting work. My name is Gaagwiis, Jason Alsop, the elected President of the Haida Nation, and I’m here today to speak in strong support of Bill S-16, An Act respecting the recognition of the Haida Nation and the Council of the Haida Nation.
This co-developed piece of legislation is an important part of the journey of reconciliation between the Haida Nation and Canada. In the Haida language, we went to our language speakers to help us better articulate this in our language, and they came back with Gud ad T’alang Hlgung Guulxa Tll Yah da, which means, “people working together to make things right.”
I think as many of you obviously know, there’s a long and troubled history between Indigenous people and Canada. For the Haida Nation, this was articulated for the first time in the written record when the Royal Commission came to Haida Gwaii in 1913 to speak to Haida leaders. That commission had come to try to talk about reserves and reserve boundaries. Our leaders were very clear to the Crown officials that the position of the Haida Nation was that we had never ceded, surrendered, signed a treaty or been defeated in war, and that all the Haida Gwaii is Haida territory. That’s the basis of a discussion between the Haida and the Crown — that they were seeking to address this dispute legally with the Privy Council of the day, had a lawyer hired and were looking to deal with the land question back then.
Canadian law and policy have been designed to assimilate Indigenous people, disconnect us from our culture, our history, our territories and from each other and have done great harm to our people, our lands, waters and territories over the years. Canada had made it illegal to exercise our traditional governance and legal systems through the banning of the potlatch system.
The cultural genocide of the residential school system was designed to silence our language, disrupt our culture and values and break up our family structures. Canadian law even made it illegal for Indigenous people for a while to hire lawyers to defend ourselves and our territories against the theft of the colonial exploitation of our lands and waters. That’s the history that we’re confronting and trying to deal with and reconcile together.
In response to this oppression of Canada and the Crown in an act of self-determination, the Haida people formed the Council of the Haida Nation in 1974 to assert our full Haida title to all Haida territories and to uphold our inherent responsibility to look after Haida Gwaii — the land and the water.
For a deeper context in history, this year marks 50 years since the Council of the Haida Nation was formed to represent all Haida people with the government in this pursuit for our territory and to look after it. In 2003, the Haida Nation formally ratified the Constitution of the Haida Nation, which asserts that the Haida Nation collectively holds hereditary and Aboriginal title and rights to Haida territories and reaffirms the decision of our ancestors to work as one in dealing with Crown governments.
The constitution recognizes all people of Haida ancestry as citizens, affirms the governing power of the Haida Nation shall be vested in the Council of the Haida Nation, further establishes the Hereditary Chiefs Council and recognizes the Haida Nation as a matrilineal society, the prominent role that the hereditary matriarchs hold and the formal role of the hereditary matriarchs in our governing body through the K’uljaad Gaa.nga Citizenship Table.
The constitution also articulates the role of the Village Councils to perform the functions of local government and to assume responsibilities for the well-being of our communities. It establishes our House of Assembly as the law-making authority.
In 2002, the Council of the Haida Nation on behalf of the Haida Nation filed the Haida title case, seeking a declaration of Aboriginal title to all of Haida Gwaii and compensation and damages for the infringements on our title and rights by the Crown.
Despite having to take to the courts to properly have our title to the entire islands recognized, we did reach a milestone in 2021 with the GayGahlda “Changing Tide” Framework for Reconciliation Agreement between B.C. and Canada. There’s a commitment there to work on the basis of recognition of title and recognition of our right to self-determination, which led to the Nang K’uula/Nang K’úulaas Recognition Agreement, which this legislation flows from.
But it’s no new thing. The Haida Nation and Canada have been working cooperatively in managing Gwaii Haanas since the 1993 Gwaii Haanas Agreement and the 2010 Gwaii Haanas Marine Agreement between the Council of the Haida Nation and Canada. The Haida Nation flag flies in front of the Transport Canada K’il Kun Xidgwangs Daanaay Airport. The RCMP flies the flag, and we have a long history of finding ways to work together despite the dispute over the land.
If there is any question about the role of the Council of the Haida Nation in representing the Haida Nation and the work that we’ve been mandated and tasked with, this past Saturday, through our House of Assembly, the Haida Nation ratified a Haida title lands agreement between the Haida Nation and British Columbia, which recognizes Aboriginal title throughout the Haida Gwaii land base with overwhelming support — 94.5% of the vote cast in favour of the over 500 votes cast.
The bill before you today is an opportunity for the recognition of our governance developed by our people — our self‑determination — and an opportunity to continue the work of the Gud ad T’alang HlGang.gulxa Tll Yahda, which is, again, “good people working together to make things right” from this history.
Háw’aa for taking the time to hear me today.
The Chair: Thank you, President Gaagwiis.
We will now open the floor to questions from senators.
Senator Sorensen: Thank you for being here. I have a couple of questions related to some of your comments.
I was recently the Senate sponsor of a bill, and part of the bill was to change the name of the park reserve to Gwaii Haanas National Park Reserve and Haida Heritage Site. Based on your comments about how you have been working with elements of the government cooperatively — I’m a big national parks fan; I live in Banff National Park — I’m interested to learn more about what I would call groundbreaking co-management structure. I know it is something that Parks Canada is working very hard on in a number of its national parks in terms of co-management.
I’d be interested in your comments on how that works. Are there challenges, and do you feel the process could be improved to better to recognize Haida rights to the land in that specific area?
Gaagwiis: Háw’aa for the question. I had the fortune of sitting on the Archipelago Management Board, which is the board tasked with governing and managing the operations of the Haida Heritage Site and Gwaii Haanas.
The agreement itself is interesting. We have our parallel assertions around ownership of the area, so we essentially agree to disagree on that front. But we have found a way to work together where we have the Archipelago Management Board, which has equal representation from Haida and Canada — three seats each — and Haida and Canada co-chair. The task is to come to consensus recommendations to make the same decision through that process. It has worked quite successfully over the years. I think we’ve had one dispute in the history of working together. It is a good example of how things can be done.
In terms of this bill and the steps to come in reconciliation, our hope is that we can pass this legislation but also then move on to actually dealing with the land part of it and recognizing Haida title to the land directly. That would then strengthen the relationship where we’re operating based on recognition of title to Gwaii Haanas, and we could then take our experiences of over 30 years of working together and continue to build upon them and how Haida jurisdiction is more prominent in there.
But I would say we operate under our own authorities, so we still have the ability to make our own decisions under our inherent jurisdiction. The way we work is the teams work together, we get good information to the table and just try to make the best decisions for the place, for the lands and the waters.
Senator Sorensen: It’s super interesting to me. The Town of Banff is in a national park. That being said, in my world, we’re very clear who has the hammer. In this example, it sounds as if it’s much more evenly discussed and consensus is trying to be reached. I think it will be a model with Parks Canada moving forward where other Indigenous communities are in a national park area.
This is more of an education for me because I didn’t quite understand this. The Haida Nation constitution recognizes Potlatched Hereditary Chiefs?
Gaagwiis: That’s correct. Yes.
Senator Sorensen: I don’t understand what that means. In addition to the elected council. I am interested in hearing more about their role and the significance in the Haida Nation. Also, as an example, what role, if any, did the hereditary chiefs play in a process like negotiating this bill? I’m curious what that role is.
Gaagwiis: Thank you. A Potlatched Hereditary Chief is a leader, a chief that is put up by their clan. That’s done through our traditional governance system where they take on a hereditary name and the responsibilities that come with it to represent their clan, their family and their territory. They have to have the support of their people and the other hereditary leadership in that process. You’ll have to come up and visit sometime, and you can participate.
The Potlatched Hereditary Chiefs form a Hereditary Chiefs Council within our governing body. The way that we have been negotiating and operating is we have representation from the Council of the Haida Nation, members appointed from the Hereditary Chiefs Council and our two Village Councils, which are part of our negotiating committee. They’re part of the work as we draft agreements and go through this process of approving them and ratifying them before bringing them forward.
It’s an inclusive governance system of all of our forms of leadership, but they really keep an eye on us and keep an eye on things.
Senator Sorensen: It’s an interesting governance model, for sure. Absolutely. On my bucket list is Gwaii Haanas National Park Reserve, and the area is somewhere I’d like to get to.
Maybe I could officially say to the clerk that that might go on our list of places the committee would like to go to. I think that would be a really great opportunity.
The Chair: For sure. Thank you, Senator Sorensen.
Senator Martin: I think that’s a great idea, Senator Sorensen. I live in B.C., but I have yet to visit, so that would be a wonderful opportunity.
Thank you so much for being here and for your opening remarks. It’s been quite a process, and I would say a long process. I’m sure there have been changes in leadership and all sorts of other changes that you’ve had to deal with.
My questions are going to be related to what’s coming up in the process forward should Bill S-16 pass. We’re here at the committee stage, but it will also go to the House, so there are a few more steps to go.
What will be the biggest advantage or change for the Haida Nation once Bill S-16 becomes law? How will it change the negotiation process with the federal government? That’s my first question.
Gaagwiis: We have the invitations there. Again, háw’aa, for your words in speaking to the bill.
This legislation mirrors what the provincial government had already done last May. In one sense, it’s an opportunity for Canada to recognize what already exists and has been in place for many years. There’s an element of it that is a bit practical and technical in us being able to function as a government without utilizing the B.C. Societies Act in that part.
We had a tripartite negotiation table with B.C. and Canada where, as I mentioned, we moved bilaterally with British Columbia on recognition of an affirmation of Aboriginal title to the land. Our hope is to do the same with Canada, and to take the same approach. That agreement is public. It’s available. You can see how we’ve laid out a way where our title to the land can be recognized and affirmed. We make commitments to honour fee simple or private land in that agreement and allow for the continuation of the municipal governments on Haida Gwaii to continue to operate as is.
We have protocol agreements and relationships with our friends and neighbours on Haida Gwaii who call Haida Gwaii home and live on our territory that we committed to between 2005 and 2008. Those are honoured in our agreement with British Columbia.
So we would take the same approach where you could have Aboriginal title recognized to Haida Gwaii. We lay out a transition period where we work together to reconcile our jurisdiction and laws, and go through that in a way where the Haida Nation would, over time, develop and put in place our Haida laws in a more codified way and then negotiate with Canada on how that implementation looks together.
With Gwaii Haanas, as an example, we’re already doing it in a certain way where Haida law and jurisdiction are in place, respected and followed. I think we can just continue to formalize it perhaps in the next steps in negotiating in a clearer way for Canadians and everybody to understand.
Our hope going forward is to come with Canada to the same place that we have reached with British Columbia.
Senator Martin: That touches upon my second question, which is regarding the transition period. I understand that period is around a two-year period, but, in essence, this is mirroring what is being done in B.C. — bringing Canada up to speed.
Is it going to take more than two years? Is everything in place where it will develop in a timely process? I know you’ve waited a long time, and it’s been a year since you signed the agreement with B.C.
Will it be about a two-year process? You talked about formalizing, but is there anything more specific with regard to the priorities for Haida?
Gaagwiis: Thank you.
When we talk about the two-year transition process, our priority and focus is on land. The way we’ve laid it out with British Columbia is to focus on protected areas, Haida heritage sites and the forestry areas. Those would be the focus of the two‑year transition period. We’d really be looking at that part of the land base.
However, we recognize that this is an ongoing process and relationship. As the Haida Nation determines the other priorities, we would continue to work on those in terms of those other areas, potentially around education and other acts perhaps. But really the focus right now is on the land governance and management, and bringing Haida culture, history and values to the forefront of how that will play out going forward.
Our experience has been that provincial laws have not worked in our favour in terms of looking after the land and providing the benefits back to the Haida Nation and the people of Haida Gwaii. Therefore, we look to rectify that by having them come from our history, experience and culture in our home.
It’s going to be an ongoing process. We’ve been calling it an orderly and incremental process in terms of how we look at each of those areas of our life and society, and how we work on them among the Haida Nation, the people who live on Haida Gwaii and with the respective governments.
Senator Martin: Thank you.
The Chair: I’ll jump in with a question now, President Gaagwiis.
According to a news article, some community members have expressed concerns over the signing of the recognition agreement and, by extension, this legislation. Specifically, a group of matriarchs fear the loss of their female-led society.
I’m just wondering if you’re aware of their concerns, and if so, how do you look to address them?
Gaagwiis: Thank you, Senator Francis.
I am aware of the concerns expressed. In our constitution, we have processes to deal with our internal conflicts and questions that arise. That particular group utilized the governance system to bring a petition forward, which was dealt with through our process.
There has been ongoing dialogue with some of those members. There’s continued participation in our governance by many of those members as well.
It’s ongoing work, and the history that I articulated in how we got here is a big part of what we have to confront and deal with. There is a lot of trauma, healing and distrust of government and what this means.
The main answer to your question is that we will continue to utilize our governance system as outlined in our constitution and the tools before us to ensure there’s a continued dialogue, communication and information for our citizens and people to really understand what this means. What we experienced was a lot of concern and misinformation around losing benefits through the Indian Act system when it comes to health and education. There were fears around seeing the experiences of other nations in treaty or other processes that were then projected on top of this.
There’s a lot of ongoing work to just ensure there is good communication, education and understanding of what these things mean in a legal and political sense. Sometimes, there’s a challenge in simplifying what’s happening when we’re trying to confront this history. There is a lot of trauma associated with it that sometimes creates barriers to understanding. It is about really creating the space to heal together.
That is our work to do as a nation. Our constitution clearly articulates the weaving together of a democratic hereditary system. Our success is going to be in how we continue to do that healing and moving forward together as a nation.
I recognize it’s ongoing and deep work for us, but it also includes continuing to move forward with this type of legislation and proper recognition of title to our lands, which does help to rebuild some form of trust with Crown governments as well. A lot of it is just that the history of Indigenous peoples and Crown governments is not a good one, so that historical experience and the traumas associated with those experiences come into this type of work.
I would say it’s an ongoing commitment to keep working through it.
The Chair: Thank you for that.
Senator Prosper: Thank you for coming, President Gaagwiis.
I truly appreciate the nature of your testimony, and the vision and perseverance that your nation has undergone just to get to this particular stage. I can only imagine the processes and the systems related to gaining consensus and discussing challenging issues given the diversity of history and challenges that your people have faced.
I have a question that is an extension of what the chair was speaking about. You articulated very well the challenges, fears and perceptions that exist within any nation when you have real change being enacted upon along with the vision that supports it.
Your constitution, which is referenced within the recognition agreement, provides or notes that the constitution of the Haida Nation will provide for a democratic and hereditary form of governance fully accountable to the Haida Nation. Also, you mentioned earlier in your testimony that there’s a weaving of the democratic and hereditary systems.
Can you get into some of that particular process and some of the thresholds — voting per se, for example — that are involved within that weaving?
Gaagwiis: Háw’aa for the question.
One of the fundamental elements of the democratic part of our government is that we operate on a three-quarter majority. Any decisions of the Council of the Haida Nation, the Hereditary Chiefs Council or our House of Assembly operate on a three‑quarter majority, or 75%, in favour of anything that goes forward. So it is a lot of work to make sure that there is that majority support for anything that does move.
On the weaving, it’s a good question; it’s interesting. That’s the democratic component of it. We elect a president, a vice‑president and regional representatives democratically. Our traditional governance system — our potlatched chiefs, our clans — we have these layers to how we identify at times. We are Haida citizens. We’re clan members. Sometimes, you’re band members. Generally, the way things work is that the chiefs and their clans, if there’s really something where there’s not support or if there is dissent, that will filter down among a clan and a family. The ability to achieve a three-quarter majority would be significantly diminished.
It’s not an easy question to answer in terms of the cultural and social dynamics of how people’s positions are developed, but we make all of our records public, such as our meeting minutes and financial components as a government. We conduct four seasonal reporting sessions each year in addition to any additional other sittings that are needed.
It really has a lot of checks and balances in terms of things moving forward between engaging with our Hereditary Chiefs Council. Then that would filter down to a clan level. At the Village Council level, at those tables, things would be shared and permeate there and then broaden through the entire nation level.
It’s quite an interesting weaving together of all of that. To get a three-quarter majority requires a lot of support.
Senator Prosper: Thank you for sharing that. I can only imagine the process. I was formerly a chief in my community, and I understand those community dynamics you mentioned. That threshold of 75% is quite impressive.
The application and the recognition of Haida law is an integral element. You mentioned earlier in your testimony that it sets forward a process where you look to codify that law.
When you’re looking or considering Haida law, how does that relate to the centrepiece of governance of the Haida Nation? How will this bill bring or incorporate that integration of Haida law within a governance structure?
Gaagwiis: This bill has nothing to do with how Haida Nation, Haida law and our governance system are applied. Again, we have already been existing in our structure for 50 years. Our constitution allows for amendments and changes. The work of looking at how our governance evolves or changes based on looking at our traditional governance system and our ancient laws is all part of an ongoing evolution that, I believe, will take place over time.
I wouldn’t want to say this bill necessarily affects that directly. That’s internal, inherent Haida Nation business, but this bill and the coming work can help to solidify the environment in which we work through applying those laws to the land base and, to be honest, the relationship between the Haida Nation, the Council of the Haida Nation and Canada in the resources for supporting the continued evolution of our self-governance to look deeply and engage with our people on what’s working, what’s not working and continuing to learn from our experiences to bring more of our culture, history and values into our modern form of governance. It’s learning how that is articulated through language, culture, processes and systems.
There is a great opportunity in that to continue that growth in that evolution of combining some of the elements we have adopted from a Western sense in forming a constitution and adopting some of the systems or processes from other governments and nations. An exciting part of this is that continuing to bring more of our culture and our history into how our governance evolves to implement our laws as we move forward in this journey.
Senator Prosper: Thank you.
Senator Greenwood: Good morning, and thank you so much for travelling here to be with us. I know it’s quite the journey from where you live. It’s a real honour to have you here today, and it’s a real honour for me to sponsor this bill in the Senate. Meegwetch, hiy hiy.
I have a couple of quick clarification questions, and then I want to give you an opportunity to talk to us about engagement. I have read in a number of the materials about the Hereditary Chiefs Council, and I have been in potlatches in different parts of northern British Columbia. You spoke of hereditary chiefs, and I know that hereditary chiefs are both male and female. Is that the case within the Haida Nation as well?
Gaagwiis: Yes, thank you. We do have female hereditary chiefs as well, yes. One thing I didn’t mention that’s also an important part of the weaving together of these governance systems is our Haida Accord, which is available publicly on our website.
That document was worked on tirelessly amongst leadership between the Council of the Haida Nation, Hereditary Chief Councils and Village Councils to bring forward a commitment to our people. It is an ongoing part of our work to look at and implement that, but it also binds everybody to uphold the Constitution of the Haida Nation. It’s interesting, right? Some of these things are on paper, written out and clearly articulated, and then there are all the other parts of our cultural system where it’s oral communication, relationships. It’s quite a beautiful thing to be a part of; and to talk about Haida laws, this idea of codifying them is part of what we are looking at going forward.
There is an underpinning of yahguudang, or respect, that carries the day forward in how we deal with each other, and our constitution is very clear about the different individual rights of belief, opinion and perspective and really just try to continue to uphold respect in how we carry ourselves in whatever parts of our governance system that are operating. It’s a really important fundamental piece that we are always reminded of by the elders and the chiefs in how to carry out the work. As senators know, there’s always dissent and different opinions and perspectives in politics, but how you carry yourself and moving forward for the best of the nation and the whole is really what’s at the centre of everything.
The land — a fundamental piece for us in our mandate and responsibilities is really first and foremost to look after the culture, look after the land, all the beings and that will all look after us. It’s kind of sometimes a bit maybe flipped from other ways of looking at things where it’s more individualistic or people-centred. We are looking at it from this perspective of looking after the territory and then that will look after us, and those relationships are not just between people amongst ourselves, but also us and the territory itself, the physical beings, the supernatural beings and the spiritual side of things.
I am really fortunate to represent the nation and to have inherited such a solid foundation in the work of so many leaders and people who experienced going through so much change, trauma and harm to our territories and people — from the thousands of Haida who lived all over the islands and had our system through our potlatch system of how we all interacted with each other and the place to being reduced to the hundreds and going through the challenges with the imposition of Crown governments, but persevering and coming up with our own system and our own way of dealing with our contemporary challenges. We’re really fortunate to have had all that leadership and all of that work of past leaders and people who are now ancestors, and I’m always in awe of what they were able to accomplish and put forward for us now and for future generations.
Senator Greenwood: Thank you so much for that response. I can really appreciate how capturing the spirit in an English language is really difficult, and that’s just one element of what you have spoken of.
I have another really practical question. In all of these processes and getting to all of these agreements that you have reached, can you talk to us or just describe how you engaged with people? I just want to get an image of that in my mind. How did that happen in the community? How did you engage with community to get to that consensus or that 75%? What does that look like?
Gaagwiis: In our constitution we have a few mandated components, and one is we host our seasonal reporting out sessions where we share the work that we are doing, what’s happening with negotiations, what’s happening operationally. We adapted, like everybody, over COVID to a Zoom model and carried forward our governance through that, and we have moved out of that back to our in-person meetings, so those are regular occurrences.
We publish our Haida laws, our communications publication, we have our website and our social media. Then through our representatives, we have regional representatives who are elected, and they are the interface as well with citizens at an individual level or different levels that they engage personally.
Then with our Hereditary Chiefs Council, bringing forward the work to them and making sure they are informed about what’s happening. Our committee structures are really interesting. We have committees that are not just Council of the Haida Nation elected members but also representation from our Village Councils; Hereditary Chiefs Councils sit on our committees. Like all government, we do our best with the resources that we have and try to get people informed about what’s happening and that they are supporting.
The big part of our governance is the annual House of Assembly where any Haida citizen can bring forward a resolution which seeks three-quarter majority support. If we aren’t doing a good job or our people aren’t supporting things or understanding, there’s an opportunity to course correct, to bring forward a resolution for something different. If the majority is in support, that gives a direction to the Council of the Haida Nation to correct course or adjust how we’re doing things. There are different ways that we engage.
Senator Sorensen: I just had one other question. I have some notes here on the GayGahlda “Changing Tide” Reconciliation Framework Agreement, and my understanding from these notes is that the framework for reconciliation set out a number of Haida priorities, and I have a list here. I’m not sure how many priorities there were, but between this legislation and other agreements, have all those priorities now been met? Do you feel that framework has been respected moving into this? Or if this bill gets passed, then that framework and those priorities been settled?
Gaagwiis: I would say no.
Senator Sorensen: Okay.
Gaagwiis: I think it’s a start. From our perspective, I think it has been going a little bit slower than we would like.
Senator Sorensen: Calls to Action.
Gaagwiis: This does, again, recognize the self-determination component that’s within there. Our primary focus is on the recognition of our title to all the land, and everything flows from there.
Senator Sorensen: Right.
Gaagwiis: I guess I should just say that all of this is in the context of the ongoing court case and litigation that was filed and before the courts for over 20 years. The earlier legal positions of the governments, which we made progress on over time, did not recognize that Haida Nation existed with title to the whole territory. The whole attempt in the litigation is to diminish and to break apart that position and that claim and say, “Oh, you guys have some broad rights, some title and rights here and there, and they’re scattered around. You have reserves, and the Haida Nation has to prove to Canada exactly where those title and rights are” and try to essentially divide up this claim that we put before the courts by saying there are different clans, tribes and bands and you’re not a nation.
The significance in this is it clearly recognizes Haida Nation as a title and rights holder to Haida Gwaii and the governance system that we developed in response to the oppression of the Crown. It’s a fundamental piece in having that cemented or clearly entrenched in our relationship going forward and not our experience of trying to define us and divide and conquer amongst ourselves to slow down the process of trying to reconcile and figure these things out.
There’s still the issues of the title to the land, the compensation in redress and for the infringements and the forward-looking pieces of how we move forward in restoring the harm to the land and the oceans and investing in the governance to, again, shift to how the people want it to go. Also to confront those other issues of climate change together and those other societal things that we’re all facing — Indigenous communities, British Columbians and Canadians.
It’s trying to deal with all the infringements and harms from the past but also looking forward in the work that we need to do.
Senator Sorensen: Thank you very much.
Senator Martin: I have a sort of supplementary to a question you answered from Senator Greenwood about the engagement. I think you made reference to some others who live on Haida Gwaii who are not members of the nation per se. With the passage of Bill S-16, I was curious about how the municipal services and laws will be respected by the Council of the Haida Nation.
Gaagwiis: Háw’aa. With Bill S-16, there are two things. It’s very clear that it doesn’t affect or change the relationship of our Village Councils to Canada or B.C., so again, the services in our reserve communities will stay the same.
The discussion around municipal communities, which are the towns created by B.C., I guess, we have a lot of Haida citizens who live in all of the towns on Haida Gwaii, so sometimes we think of it as Haida communities and municipal communities. That’s the jurisdiction that the province has put on it, which we have honoured in our land title agreement with British Columbia. It doesn’t affect the services for municipalities. They stay the same. They collect the taxes. All the services remain the same for health and education for all citizens, whether you’re Haida, a British Columbian or a Canadian living on Haida Gwaii.
The engagement with the mayors and the communities has been very positive. Like I said, we have protocol agreements where we have made commitments to each other. We invited them to be part of the discussions around what reconciliation of title looks like on Haida Gwaii. They have accepted that. They have recognized our title, and we committed to work together and not dispossess people of their homes and private land, but also to not affect their communities.
I meet monthly with the mayors through the All-Islands Protocol Table. We just went through a series of engagements with each of the municipal councils and town halls in each of the communities. There is overwhelming support from the settlers on Haida Gwaii who support the Council of the Haida Nation in our work. They support recognition of Haida title, and they see opportunity and are excited about the prospects of what designing a future for the islands looks like.
With Crown laws and the way that things are set up, our experience has been that the revenues and benefits from all of the trees that have been harvested, which are shipped down south to mills in the Lower Mainland area, have gone to government. If you come to Haida Gwaii and look at the billions of dollars in timber value that has been taken out of Haida Gwaii, you’ll see no infrastructure, no swimming pools and no recreation centres. There’s really little to nothing to show for all the people of Haida Gwaii of what’s left from all that has been extracted.
Their experience is the same. They see that all the resources have been taken and they haven’t benefited the Haida community or the municipal communities. Together, we see an opportunity to try to change that equation in a better way, which works better for all the people of Haida Gwaii as an islands community.
Senator Martin: Thank you.
The Chair: The time for this panel is complete. I wish to again thank President Gaagwiis for joining us today. That brings us to the end of our meeting.
(The committee adjourned.)